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Senators Question Removal of NASA Program Manager

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the not-so-fast dept.


Hugh Pickens writes "The New York Times reports that one day after the removal of NASA's head of the Constellation Program, Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, chairman of the committee that oversees NASA, and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, the committee's ranking Republican, have asked NASA's inspector general to look into whether the NASA leadership is undermining the agency's moon program and to 'examine whether this or other recent actions by NASA were intended or could reasonably have been expected to foreclose the ability of Congress to consider meaningful alternatives' to President Obama's proposed policy, which invests heavily in new space technologies and turns the launching of astronauts over to private companies. Congress has yet to agree to the president's proposed policy, and has inserted a clause into this year's budget legislation that prohibits NASA from canceling the Constellation program or starting alternatives without Congressional approval. The Constellation manager, Jeffrey M. Hanley, whose reassignment is being called a promotion, had been publicly supported by the NASA administrator and other NASA officials. But he may have incurred displeasure by publicly talking about how Constellation could be made to fit into the slimmed-down budgets that President Obama has proposed for NASA's human spaceflight endeavors."

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Fris psto (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396188)

Very interesting

Re:Fris psto (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396196)


DiKKy Heartiez - Berlin, Norway

President timecop of the GNAA has died today. He died at the age of 55 from excessive lulz in his apartment in Tokyo, Japan while watching faggot cartoons of preteen girls beeing raped by giant testicles. The world will remember him as a total faggot douchebag who had the opportunity to unite the best trolls seen upon the face of the internet into one special hardcore machine of destruction, unfortunately he failed, instead devoting his internet carreer to animu. Although he died like a true hero he will be forever remembered as a total failure.

In the wake of his death the GNAA is thought to perish like all the other so called trolling organizations. The writing is on the wall, they say. The GNAA smells worse than BSD, they say.They have said this for a long time. The GNAA has lived, with a very faint pulse, for years.


With the death of timecop still shocking our chats, not many are able to see ahead. But there is one visionary Nord who has great plans for the new GNAA.
"Under my leadership the GNAA will become the new home of all trolls on the internet. The GNAA will regain its old strength and will be feared by bloggers and jews alike. The time for CHANGE is now." DiKky HearTiez told a shocked audience outside the Gary Niger Memorial Plaza, Nigeria, earlier today. The GNAA will move its Internet Relayed Communications to a new location, following reports of a massive "Distributed Denial Of Service" attack on its previous location, making it unreliable.
"Our operatives are in need of a robust and safe communications service with can_flood for everyone." An anonymous source at the GNAA Black Ops department told reporters at the same conference.

KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez presidency!

The infamous KLULZ internet radio station supports DiKKy Heartiez for the new GNAA president.
"KLULZ is behind him 100% and will be broadcasting his speeches and support him in every way possible, we wish him the best of luck and an outstanding presidency. May many blogs burn under DiKky Hearties." This was stated by KLULZ Operations Manager and Gay Nigger g0sp when asked to comment on KLULZ involvement.

About President timecop


About DiKKy HearTiez

The world famous internet nord from Norway LOL HY living in a fjord LOL HY. Currently the new President of the new GNAA. He is also a radiodj on KLULZ and active in many irc chats. Known for several epic trolls in his time. Led the GNAA operation Intel Crapflood 21, who succesfully made GNAA owners of the biggest thread on Slashdot until fixed by admins. Also deeply involved in the war on blogs, and is the one who provided JesuitX with the real screenshots of Faggintosh Leopard. His leadership abilities, high iq and instoppable urge to troll, coupled with his fat Norwegian welfare check will enable him to become the best President the GNAA ever had.


KLULZ is the internets radio station, bringing you news about the GNAA, hosting shows by prominent djs such as DiKKy, l0de, g0sp, jenk and many others. KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez. With mature content this channel is not suitable for children or people under the age of 18. Klulz radio can be heard at

About GNAA:

organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one
common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [] ?

Are you a NIGGER [] ?

Are you a GAY NIGGER [] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER
) might be exactly what you've been looking for!

all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.

GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of
America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [] and watch it. You can download the movie [] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [] on [] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on, and apply for membership.

Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up
! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit
links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER
irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network.
The correct network is Hardchats, and you can connect to as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

Copyright (c) 2003-2009 Gay Nigger Association of America []

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality', which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to paedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [] , spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [] on leftist commie propaganda site as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [] slut [] !

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [] . To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [] is secret homo [] slang for the tip of a penis [] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherent gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [] ' originally referred to a homosexual [] practice. Slashdot [] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, [] .

The editors of Slashdot [] also have homosexual [] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [] runs on Apache!

The Apache [] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'


What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [] is that it contains hidden homosexual [] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [] , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [] , but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

I do it wrong!

I do it wrong

Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.
Massaging my nutsack she....


Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass [] .

"OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"

"Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"


I continue to hump her alabaster form. Glistening with beads of sweat, she bites her lip in delight as I tear her ass open with my engorged dick.

"Queen Amidala!!" I shreik as I near climax.

She looks up at me and screams, "You are so alive in me, unlike *BSD or VA Software!!! Fill me with seed!! Yes, Yes, Yess!!!!"

"For me you are calling, hhhmmm?"

"YODA?!? What the fuck, can't you see I am using the force here?"

He savagely kicks my Natalie aside, he pulls out his large green penis and impales me...


All your sporkz are belong to the dead homiez!!

A couple weeks ago, while taking my asian girlfriend shopping at the local mall, I had to take a piss. As I entered the john, Steve Jobs -- the messiah himself -- came out of one of the booths. I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was busy and in any case I was sure the security guards wouldn't even let me shake his hand.

As soon as he left I darted into the booth he'd vacated, hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still warm from his sturdy ass. I found not only the smell but the shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat, stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd -- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as his cock -- or at least as I imagined it!

I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd always been a liberal thinker and had been an Apple customer since 1984. Of course I'd had fantasies of meeting Jobs, sucking his cock and balls, not to mention sucking his asshole clean, but I never imagined I would have the chance. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of Steve Jobs, the chosen one.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both hands to keep it from breaking. I lifted it to my nose. It smelled like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit without the benefit of a digestive tract?

I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it smelled.

I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big half nigger cock, beating my meat like a madman, and thrusting my pink iPod Shuffle into my ass. I wanted to completely engulf it and bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily, sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My only regret was that Steve Jobs wasn't there to see my loyalty and wash it down with his piss.

I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with the rich bitterness of shit. It's even better than reading an Apple press release!

Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished them out, rolled them into my handkerchief, and stashed them in my briefcase. In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole. Not an unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using them but within a week they were all gone. The last one I held in my mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six orgasms in the process.

I often think of Steve Jobs dropping solid gold out of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could, and at least once did, bring to a grateful Apple customer.

I sat naked on the bench in the health club locker room, staring at the tiles on the floor between my feet, but really looking at nothing. I was waiting for Barack to decide to come up and talk to me. He was this muscular teenage nigger who frequented the club and had ruined my life in the last few weeks. I was ordered to sit naked on the bench without a towel or anything to cover my nakedness. I had to keep my legs spread and my cock and balls visible for the anyone in the locker room who wanted a look. I knew instantly that it had been a mistake to sign up at the inner city health club which was eighty percent black, but it was near my house and cheap which was even more important.

The harassment had started on my first visit. Dark skinned, muscular black boys bouncing around the locker room with their huge dicks and pendulous sacks of balls swinging, high fiving each other and laughing and rapping, and there I was, this moderately built white guy of thirty two.

I will never forget coming back from the shower and one chocolate skinned thug of about eighteen let out a "weeeeeeeow" kind of sound and then said very loudly to me, loudly enough for all his pals to hear, "White man, how the hell can you fuck wit such a small dick?" They all roared with laughter and I turned bright red. Before I left that first time, I met Barack. He eased up to me while I was packing my gym bag. He is one good looking darkie, I will say that for him. He flashed me a big white toothed smile and said he hoped I wasn't thinking of quitting the club. He said he was friends with the manager and they had my address and shit, and it would be really unfortunate if I decided to quit. Then he laid one large basketball player sized hand on my shoulder and said that he would see me at the same time the next day.

Well, that's how it started. It got worse each time I went to the club. Barack and the other niggers got me to get towels for them, had me scrub their backs in the shower, even made me pick their dirty stinking jock straps up off the floor. They sent their filthy jocks and socks home with me to wash for them.

Now let me state here once and for all, that I am in no way at all gay. I don't think I ever even had a gay thought. So all of this really repulsed me. They would brush up against me so their big fat black dicks rubbed my body. They would make constant jokes about me being a faggot.

So I had it out with Barack. I told him I was a single parent with a thirteen year old daughter and in no way gay, and I wanted to quit the club. That mention of my daughter was the biggest mistake of my life. Barack demanded to see a photo of her. Her name is Crissy. After that, all they talked about was "Crissy the Cunt" in the locker room.

"Some fourteen year old school boy probably shoving his dick in her right now while you is at da club." They would say things like that. Barack would ask, "Do you suppose she had ever sucked black dick?" I told them she was totally innocent, and they should keep their foul mouths to themselves. They beat the shit out of me.

I didn't go to the club for a week. All the windows were broken on my car, and my newspaper was stolen, and somebody pissed all over our door. I received a package at work, and when I opened it, there was a pile of shit in a box. I was going nuts with anguish. I thought of going to the police, but I knew I would face even worse if I did. So I went back to the club. That was two months ago. A lot had happened in those two months.

Now I sat waiting for Barack to speak with me. He walked up, stark naked. The first thing I saw were his huge brown feet next to me. I looked up at his long muscular legs. How could I miss the seven inch flaccid dick, thick as a flashlight and the ball sack that looked like it had oranges in it. It was fucking obscene. His stomach was hard and tight. His ass was one of those round tight nigger bubble butts. His chest well defined with large nipples. He had a killer smile, thick nigger lips, and dark flashing eyes that often looked drugged. He had only recently gotten out of reform school for molesting a girl on the playground.

"So, my man, how's that little dick of yours hangin'?"

I spread my legs wider so he could see my pathetic shriveled white prick and small ball sack. If I didn't keep myself on display for them at all times, they would have a wet towel snapping session where my scrotum was the target. It hurt like hell and was totally humiliating.

"So, bro, is everything set up for tomorrow?" He stood close to close that his huge flaccid hunk of fuck meat brushed my shoulder. His dick was so huge, it was just fucking obscene, and that was in its flaccid state. He had not showered yet, and his body reeked of the nigger stink of his workout.

"Please. Please don't do this. I know I agreed, but that was after you had beaten me almost senseless. Please, isn't there some other way?"

He lifted one leg and put his foot on the bench next to me. His gigantic balls swung back and forth in their fleshy sack.

"Dere is no other fucking way, man. You don't wanna even think of what we gonna do to you next time you disobeys us. Dere is no other way. Now it so happens dat I needs me a new girlfriend, and your pretty little daughter fills da bill."

I felt my stomach turn over. I tried to relax, to breath deeply, but I felt like I was choking. This teenage nigger thug was talking about my daughter. My little Crissy. My thirteen year old angel. He had announced to me that he wanted her to become his girlfriend! Jesus Christ!

At first I had bluntly refused, letting my anger and disgust show. All the niggers in the club gathered around me, about fifteen of them, and Barack announced that I was racially prejudiced and didn't want him dating his white daughter. They started to slap and punch me.

"It's not that. Honest to God, I swear, it's not that you are black. It's that she is only thirteen. She's my innocent baby!"

Barack roared with laughter. "Any bitch of thirteen is totally ready for dick! She probably sucking da boys at school every day anyway by now." He looked at the photo of her which he had taken from me. "Yeah, she got real cocksucker lips, she shore do!"

"Oh God no, she's just a baby." I was crying in front of all of them.

"No, daddy, you gots it wrong. She is a babe...not a baby. Dat pretty little pussy is ready for some nigger popping!" Half the niggers surrounding me were getting hard ons, and I don't there there was one under eight and a half inches.

For weeks I had argued, begged, pleaded, tried to bargain with Barack, but he only wanted one thing. My daughter's virgin pussy. Once I stood up to them and told them I would go to the police. They had dragged me naked and screaming into the health club bathroom and forced me to eat turds out of the toilet bowl. I was sick for two days. The next time I went to the club, Barack had made me suck his dick. That was the first time I saw it erect. Over twelve inches of throbbing leaking nigger cock. I had a panic attack and literally tried to run out of the club. They held me down on a bench and Barack fed me his black fuck meat. His balls almost suffocated me. His dick choked me. He even made me suck his ass. What could I do? I agreed to let them have my daughter. I know, I am an awful man. A sinner. It is unforgivable, but I am scared out of my wits.

"So, tomorrow, I comes over to yo house dressed up real good. You introduce me to yo bitch daughter. Now when I sees her, dis is how I wants her dressed. A very tight tee shirt dat says printed on it, "I Love Nigga Dick!" She will wear no bra under it so I can see the tips of her budding little titties through the material. Den she is to wear her nice pleated cheer leader skirt like in da photo, only I don want her to wear no panties under it. From now on, yo daughter is forbidden to ever wear any panties. We want dat fresh young cunt and ass ready and available at all times. I want you to have some really top drawer booze at yo house ready for me. I am not sure what I will want, so you better have enough to satisfy me, whatever my taste might be. Who da fuck knows, I may want a cosmo, or maybe some of dat Louis XIII Brandy dat costs three hundred dollars. You better have it all. After I has a drink, you pretty little bitch and I gonna sit on da couch and get acquainted. Dat means you as da daddy get to watch me finger her cunt and play wit her titties. You gets to see her meet my big fat old dick and even lick and suck it a little. I always insists on sex on da first date, cause how else you know how a bitch perform, right? Shit, I insist on sex on every date. I mean dat is da only reason for da fucking plow some pussy! Right? Otherwise I'd rather hang wit da home boys. Now she gonna be a little uptight and scared at firs...right? Specially when she see my dick and she know dat huge motherfucker is gonna plow her virgin twat! Oh yea, if she got any hair on her cunt yet, you make sure she shave it all off before tomorrow. I wanna see bald thirteen year old pussy."

While he said all of this to me at the health club, his dick got thicker and thicker and long strings of pre-fuck started to hang from the fat pisshole.

"Please don't hurt her...please." I was shaking in my naked agony.

"Hurt her? No why the fuck would I hurt my new girlfriend? I gonna love her. I gonna show her da pleasures of lovemaking. Shore, it gonna hurt a little da first time I ram my twelve and a half inch motherfucking dick balls deep into her tight little teenage pussy. Shore it gonna hurt when I pounds her as hard as I can, and den pull out and shove it as hard as I can up her little asshole. Shore dat gonna hurt a little, but dat is jus' part of growin' up. A her daddy, you understand dat. Right? Better to hab some nice boy like me who wants her for his girlfriend fucking her, den every boy at school who don't give a shit about her.

"Now don't you worry, I gonna take her into the bedroom to fuck her cunt and ass. I think dat is private. I mean, you can watch da first time she suck my balls and lick my dick and such. But fucking is between a guy and his girlfriend. I wants you dere at the the sucking part, cause she is gonna be scared like I say, and you can calm her. Tell her it is a natural part of life, and she just gotta learn to please a man. She, she shoulda learned dat couple of years ago already. She is a late bloomer.

Now I am gonna want to use her bedroom for da first fuck,cause I wants to fuck her little bitch body in her teenage bed, wit all her teenage shit around. It will be so hot. But den, I is moving into your master bedroom. You can sleep on da couch. I wants a nice big bed and luxury for future fucks. I gotta fuck at least three times a day, usually more. Now of course I still going to be bangin' other cunt, but I will fuck your daughter regularly cause she is my number one girlfriend. My special bitch. I ain't gonna introduce her to my bros until after I fuck her for a week or so. Den when she broken in, I gonna share her with all da boys from dis here health club. Dere about twenty of us here as you know, so she gonna be pretty busy sucking nigga dick and getting ass and cunt fucked. We gonna do mos' of it over at yo house. You have lots of food dere at all times fo my brothers when dey comes over to fuck your daughter. Since she be fucking most every day all day and night from now on, I suggest you apply to home school her. Dat way, she don't even need to think about school and she can concentrate on nigga cock all da time."

"Please, please use condoms...." I had tears running down my face.

Barack roared with laughter. "Condoms? We never use condoms. It ruins da fuck. Dat little bitch gonna be pregnant in a couple of weeks at mos'. You gonna be da grand daddy of a nigga chile! And who knows. She young. If she stay tight enough and cute enough, maybe we fuck her for three or four years, you know, pass her around, pimp her out. Shit, she still young enough. She could hab five or six nigga babies! We don' allow no abortions. She gonna breed. Now my brothers and daddy be comin' over lots to fuck her too, so you better have lots of keys to yo house made, or jus' leave the fucking place unlocked. She don't leave da house without permission. I would hate it for both of you if some black bro comes over for a good hard fuck, and she not dere! Now I know you worried about her. Don' be. After a few days of getting nigga dick, she gonna love it so much, dat all she gonna live for. I seen it in young white bitches lots of times. Someday she gonna thank you for all dis. I mean how many girls her age so lucky to get ten to fifteen black cocks a day? Long as her pussy and asshole hold up, she be happy. One thing, she gonna hab to be a really good cocksucker, cause One thig is dat when da boys in my hood meet up wit guys from other gangs...we got dis thing. We hab our girlfriends suck da cocks of all da members of the other gangs, as kind of a peace signal, you know, a sign dat we is kewl and everything is okay. So she gonna pretty much hab a dick in her mouth twenty-four seven for da next few months. She gonna be sucking on nigga dick even when she getting fucked by my bros. Dis house gonna be pretty packed full of black boys! Now, after a bitch has sucked fifteen to twenty dicks a day, she often get a real tired jaw and swollen lips and a sore tongue, so you gonna have to tell her no matter how tired she get, da last dick of da day she suck, gets jus' as good a suck as da first one in da morning. You gotta make sue she understand that. I can't have no bad reports from rival gangs dat my bitch can't suck!

Now we gots one more problem. Da little bitch gonna be so busy getting fucked and sucking dick, she ain't gonna hab no proper time to clean up da dicks after dey fuck her cunt and ass! You know it da bitch's job to clean a dick wit her mouth after a brother fuck her. I mean, you can't expect a brother to walk around wit pussy slime or ass juice on his dick. But she gonna be so busy, she ain't always gonna hab time to clean up, so you my friend is going to have to step up to da plate to help her. You gonna be the official dick cleaner. You gonna lick and suck da dicks clean after dey fuck yo bitch of a daughter. I want you naked on you hands and knees at all times around da house, ready to lick and suck dick clean. And you gonna do a fine job too, I just know it. You get all dat stink off da cock. Maybe you can entertain da brothers waiting next in line to fuck yo daughter too by lickig dere balls and assholes. I never thought of dat until just now. Hot damn, dat is a good idea, ain't it? So dey don't get bored while dey waitin. And den, to keep your daughter fresh and tight, after every three or four fucks, you gonna crawl in and suck the nigga cum right outta her pussy and asshole. Think how great dat is. You gonna get to suck some thirteen year old pussy and asshole! How lucky is dat? You gonna clean out her cunt real good with yo tongue so it is ready for da next nigga.

We gonna be da happiest family you ever seen! Now come on, white boy, suck my dick, can't you see it dripping all over da floor?"

I put my mouth over the head of the huge leaking hunk of fuckmeat, and resigned myself and my daughter to our new destiny.

BUT, consider:

1. No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2. There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Nigger, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to the Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3. Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, and assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of his sleigh, jump down the chimneys, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course we know to be false but for the purpose of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc. This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4. The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized Lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (refer to point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal load, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of Queen Elizabeth.

5. 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecrafts re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy per SECOND, EACH! In short, they will burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create a deafening sonic boom in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal* forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead by now. And he'd be a faggot.

*Please note that centrifugal is a made-up non existent word. The real word should be centripetal. Centrifugal is a made up force that physics people HATE! So please, everyone use the world centripetal, not centrifugal. Thanks!

Can you imagine... (4, Interesting)

RockMFR (1022315) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396212)

Can you imagine if the Congress of the 1950s had, instead of funding the Apollo program, wanted to fund production of the Wright Flyer?

Re:Can you imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396646)

That's what NASA did a few years back when there was a Wright Brothers celebration. The sad thing is that they couldn't get it to fly ...

Re:Can you imagine... (4, Funny)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397114)

Then the Apollo program really would have been filmed in Hollywood studios.

Hey, scratch that. I now have definitive proof that the Moon landings were not filmed in a studio. The films were shown on TV; free of charge.

If Hollywood faked the Moon landings, they would have had DRM stuff on all of it. And if anyone said the word "Moon", the MPAA would have been all over it.

Re:Can you imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32397798)

Can you imagine if the Congress of the 1950s had, instead of funding the Apollo program, wanted to fund production of the Wright Flyer?


Re:Can you imagine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32408244)

Can you imagine if the Congress of the 1950s had, instead of funding the Apollo program, wanted to fund production of the Wright Flyer?

yeah, it would have been nice.. we could have had a cure for cancer .. worked out the biology of learning, developed radiological technology into a home scan device that discovers cancers before they become unmanageable problems, worked out genetics and improved health care without the benefit of the master asshole pharmaceuticals, we could have discovered and distributed a low cost alternative to the fuel type (oil) that has kept the world at war for 100 years.

Going to the moon and other as yet useless full of pork programs, might affect some future generation, but I like the better life now. The funding of Apollo cost us our private industrial jobs in America, and the technology developed was stolen or copied by the powerful who run the nations of the world; hence everything that damn program did was patented by one of the world's giant corps ( it was Eisenhower who warned of the GIMMIC= Global interplanetary Media supported Military Industrial Complex as the mostly likely source of the demise of our great democracy). The wealthy aristocrats will not let the everyday human in America vote, because they are afraid the everyday will vote all of the budget to welfare for the poor; but out constitution shifts the welfare from the poor to wealthy, because it lets the elected, aristocratic supported congress to vote on behave of the aristocrats who own the lobbyists. guns or butter, I like my butter.

Bicker bicker bicker... (4, Insightful)

durrr (1316311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396224)

Senators thinking too much of their sponsors and pets in addition to the perpetual conflict over the imaginary difference in US parties(republicans/democrats) is the reason why we're not going anywhere. The congress is a fucking kindergarten full of uneducated, dishonest and selfish man-babies who feel entitled to have everything their way, and if they have to face critique they'll cry until your ears bleed or you let them have it their way.
Perhaps when India or China start their mars missions congress will sober up.

Re:Bicker bicker bicker... (2, Insightful)

dkf (304284) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396416)

Perhaps when India or China start their mars missions congress will sober up.

I wouldn't count on it. It would be a truly remarkable event for recent Congresses.

Re:Bicker bicker bicker... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32397880)

Congress isn't just men. Women have equal rights to be, "a fucking kindergarten full of uneducated, dishonest and selfish babies who feel entitled to have everything their way..."

Re:Bicker bicker bicker... (1)

haxney (1769366) | more than 4 years ago | (#32405630)

Yeah, I know this whole thing is wildly off-topic, but I'm bored, so whatever ;)

The congress is a fucking kindergarten full of uneducated, dishonest and selfish man-babies who feel entitled to have everything their way

I'll agree with dishonest and selfish, but it takes some brainpower to keep a job like that when you're not actually doing your job. I'm no bigger fan of the current congress than you seem to be, but if you had a job where you could gather crowds of (literally) thousands of cheering people, be paid well (both legit and through bribes), and wield that much power, wouldn't you want to keep it? We have a system which rewards dishonesty and selfishness, and lo and behold, a bunch of dishonest, selfish people end up at the top.

There's nothing so special about the particular people we have in congress now; if we threw them all out, (barring any structural reform) we would just end up with 535 interchangeable scumbags. If you create a job which attracts scumbags, don't be surprised when the only people in the job are scumbags. Just look at Wall Street.

Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (4, Insightful)

beaverdownunder (1822050) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396238)

... but why is it so hard/expensive to repeat something that was done several times 40 years ago using comparatively horribly primitive technology? Somehow I expect this to all 'go away'. Not everything in the world is a conspiracy, but not everything isn't, either. Hello, NASA -- what gives?

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (3, Insightful)

durrr (1316311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396254)

Because a certain president found the space program dull and boring and decided to funnel all the NASA money into warfare instead, because the latter is so much more exciting and something we need more of. And when you let something stagnate for 30 years, chances are you'll have a bloody hard time getting it going again, especially when all the people and expertise have moved on and away.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (2, Interesting)

beaverdownunder (1822050) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396304)

I don't know about that -- technology has marched on at an (pun intended) astronomical pace. Also, these sorts of things tend to be very heavily documented. Don't get me wrong, I'm not outright arguing the moon missions 'never happened', but it strikes me there seems to be a 'gotcha' that we're not being made aware of, and it's a shame that the might of the public resources that could be made available to solve the problem by those who would like to see further extra-planetary activity is squandered just simply because NASA refuses to publicly say "we don't know" about whatever the issue is. It's always struck me that they're a bit more PR driven then they should be, and that ought to change.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396302)

think about it this way:

Remember when, as a kid, you balanced a ruler on your finger? Launching a rocket is just like that--only the ruler is human beings and the finger is a (hopefully) controlled explosion.

If your system isn't PERFECT, people die.

Now, that's just a normal rocket. We've done those before. But to send humans to the Moon, you've got to launch a larger mass than to get just to the Space Station. Much larger. And you have to bring enough fuel with you (more mass) to carefully brake yourself as you get into lunar orbit. And you have to bring enough fuel with you to carefully brake yourself as you get down to the Moon's surface. And you have to bring enough fuel with you to launch off of the Moon's surface again. AND you have to bring enough fuel with you to get back out of lunar orbit and pointed back at the moon. AND you have to bring fuel tanks and rocket engines for each one of those steps, too. Plus food and clothing and toilets for your humans. All of that has to be lifted in the original rocket.

This still doesn't get at your question, though. We did it in the 60's, why can't we do it now? Well, lots of reasons. Primarily, we were trying to do it in a way that was less expensive to operate than the Saturn Vs--that program was cancelled because it was so expensive. Most of the technology, and all of the parts, are obsolete, so we couldn't just go with another Saturn V. Also, it takes $Billions to do this, so we have to satisfy all of our "stakeholders," which meant that we had to try to do it using Shuttle parts, because if you make a bunch of people suddenly unemployed, senators get upset. So it would be (arguably) better to launch with an all-liquid system, but we had to cobble together rockets out of the Shuttle parts. Well, performance-wise, they're slightly worse but safety-wise they're slightly better, so it's all good. But then it turned out that there were technical problems to using Shuttle parts when they're not attached to the Shuttle's stack--see the first point about balancing a ruler; if it's not perfect, things go dramatically wrong. So the design had engineering problems that had to be fixed. It takes time and money to fix those problems, and the program fell behind and went over budget.

Meanwhile, congress SAID they supported NASA in a broad, bi-partisan fashion--and they did, they tried to give NASA more money...but Bush, who started the program, cut the budget. Every single God-damned year. When you start a complex program and give it less money than it is asking for, you cause more problems than just the dollar amounts represent. Work gets done out of order due to the financial constraints. This means people have to make assumptions about the work that should have been done already, but isn't. That means that some of those assumptions will be wrong. That means that some of that work will have to be re-done, and that means more time and money.

So, there you have it--why NASA can't do again what it did 40+ years ago: the physics are nightmarishly difficult, there were engineering difficulties (imagine that), there were constraints about how the system could be built due to congressional politics, and the president didn't support us with enough money. End of story.

Re:Not Controlled Explosion (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396480)

Rocket engines burn fuel at high pressure, they do not propel themselves by explosion. The only explosions are explosive bolts to separate the stages.

If you want a rocket propelled by explosions look at the Orion Drive, which fires nuclear bombs behind it, which then explode and propel it forward.

Re:Not Controlled Explosion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32398236)

Go on, Dr. Rocket Scientist, explain to us how the chemical nature of fuel burning is different from that of fuel exploding.

Re:Not Controlled Explosion (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 4 years ago | (#32400500)

Deflagration is subsonic
Detonation is supersonic

That must be that other kind of cutting funding (1)

NotSoHeavyD3 (1400425) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396612)

You know, the kind of cutting that ends up with increased funding []

Re:That must be that other kind of cutting funding (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398442)

True! Problem is, nobody knows what all that extra money can be used for. The NASA centers are trying to figure out how to invent new projects to fit into the programs dictated by that budget.

Re:That must be that other kind of cutting funding (1)

tyrione (134248) | more than 4 years ago | (#32400154)

True! Problem is, nobody knows what all that extra money can be used for. The NASA centers are trying to figure out how to invent new projects to fit into the programs dictated by that budget.

Very astute observation. The money isn't in an open pool for any department to use. They are predefined and constrained.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

demachina (71715) | more than 4 years ago | (#32400372)

Nice lengthy rant but NASA has spent most of their energy on Ares I the last 5 years. Ares I isn't even remotely as difficult as Apollo, Saturn or going to the Moon. Its closer to Soyuz, Gemini and Mercury. It was just launching a few people in a capsule in to LEO. After years of effort and billions of dollars all NASA had managed so far was to light off a largely unmodified Shuttle SRB with a bunch of dummy upper stages with a control system that was lifted wholesale out of an Atlas.

NASA and Ares simply haven't developed anything worth anything in a period of time comprable to one where the original NASA had gone from zero to early Saturn and Apollo launches. Sure back then NASA had a lot of money to throw at problems but they also had to develop a huge number of completely new technologies from scratch. Ares I is inventing next to no new technology and doing something we've been doing for 50 years, putting capsules with a few people in to LEO, something even the Chinese are doing now.

If this guy was the PM for this program he should be fired. Whatever the reason he didn't deliver. If he didn't have the resources to do the job he should have figured that out early, drawn a line in the sand and said either get me the resources or kill it. Instead he led a program that muddled along, did nothing but squander time and money, perpetuated a jobs program and didn't accomplish anything. Sure politicians helped screw it up, but still if you are the project manager, either you figure out a way to succeed or quit early.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

StopKoolaidPoliticsT (1010439) | more than 4 years ago | (#32403720)

I'll admit that, while I'm interested in space exploration, I'm not a space nerd, tracking every project NASA has going on...

But, is the failure of the Ares I a lack of intellectual and creative ability to develop the project, or is it that we've become so accustomed to fearing anything less than perfection when human lives are on the line, that we're afraid to move forward?

Nobody wants to lose astronauts, but in the 1960s, we ALL (ok, I wasn't born yet, but Americans at the time) understood that it was likely that we would lose a few astronauts along the way. A few lives were an acceptable loss on the way to conquering space. Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee died in Apollo 1 on the launchpad in 1967. A year and a half later, we put men into space on that brand new platform.

In 1986, Challenger exploded and it took 2.5 years to get back into space. In 2003, Columbia burned up on re-entry and, like Challenger, it took 2.5 years to get back into space despite safely completing 112 of 114 missions on the platform. In 2004, just about a year after the failure of STS-114, Bush announced the end of the Space Shuttle without having a successor ready to go, effectively abandoning manned space flight.

Now, in 201x America, it appears no loss of life is acceptable even though there is nothing less dangerous about going into space today than there was in the 1960s. Astronauts know what they're getting into when they sign up, they volunteer, dreaming just to have a chance at a position, despite knowing the risks. Now, I'm not saying we should cavalierly blow them up, but we have to accept that we can't perfect every engineering design on paper, at some point, we have to build it and fire it. My suspicion is that NASA is so afraid that something will go wrong, and that "something" will bring the end to NASA as we know it, that they're afraid to take any chances... and that's why they're doing things like reusing as much existing hardware as possible even though it's time to "refactor the code," if you will.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

Wannarunmore (1779572) | more than 3 years ago | (#32408848)

A long explanation that doesn't hold up. The reasons are simpler than previously described. At the time before and of the Apollo program, when the space program was young, there was much better focus among the political leadership and, mostly, by NASA itself. Disagreements of logistics and methodology were handled better, and logically. Technology limited the paths that could be taken in many of the questions presented by the challenge of space exploration and ultimately the moon landing itself than today. Running against the Russians to the moon gave America focus and drive that hasn't existed since; when you're number ONE (to the moon), what do you have to prove after that? We've been sitting on our laurels since then... The physics of lunar travel, orbital rendezvous, and interplanetary travel for that matter, are very very well understood today, as opposed to the 1960s when computers were crude and huge. An understanding of the physics involved are a non-issue to be sure, and now solved in high school physics classes. Rockets, engines, and orbital mechanics, are now calculated by small computers rather than slide rules and pencils. Materials technology has evolved significantly from what was known and available in the '60s. We could build a lighter, more powerful, and safer, Saturn-class booster than 60 years ago. but it would be more expensive due to inflation, and the more complicated metallurgy involved in these advanced materials. The bottom line is, splintered political factions and lukewarm attitudes of the American populace are the reasons we forgot the moon in 1972 along with so much of what we learned in the process of getting there. In the meantime, without a driving force to give us focus, we tend to be a silly people.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396650)

It's not a technological problem -- as you say, it's been done before, and others have done comparable development in a fraction of the time and cost (SpaceX and other NewSpace companies).

The issue here is, and has been for the past 40 years, entirely political. Space is big money, and big money attracts politicians like flies. NASA is both a job program for engineers and a reliable means of buying votes. Why do you think the various space centers are scattered all over the country? Why do you think rockets are launched from Florida, but the flight is controlled via Houston?

Get the politicians out of the mix. Once companies have to produce reliable designs on a budget or disappear, we'll have cheap access to space. It won't happen with cost-plus programs or the "cover-your-ass" bureaucracy.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (2, Interesting)

jonwil (467024) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397828)

What you said about "Get the politicians out of the mix" is EXACTLY what Obama wants to do (and exactly why Congress wont let him)

The Obama proposal (from my understanding) means NASA would be buying off-the-shelf space hardware (rockets, boosters, capsules, landers, whatever else) or hardware build by private industry to NASA specs. Either way, it would be built by the company in the location that is most benifical to the company and not to some politician. And using the work force that is most benifical to the company, not the workforce that some politician wants to protect. And using the best technology for the job, not outdated technology forced onto a project by a politician who wants to keep the outdated technology (and the jobs in his state that go into making it) alive.

Imagine if the the entire government bought things this way. No more $500 hammers when you could use a $50 hammer from the local hardware store that will do the job.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398306)

Obama *is* a darn politician. NASA's charter is not to buy off-the-shelf hardware, but rather to R&D low technology readiness level (TRL) projects and to and operate missions that no commercial entity would consider. I work in a small section of CxP, and coincidentally have also been an advisor to some CCTS work. I can assure you, NASA (and our contractors, of course) have our human spaceflight shit together way more than ULA/Boeing/Space-X et. al. In fact, ULA would even be attempting to human-rate their launch vehicles if it wasn't for NASA funding them to do the work! Private (that is, commercial) industry is not anywhere near ready for human spaceflight. Oh, and you know those

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 4 years ago | (#32405568)

Obama *is* a darn politician. NASA's charter is not to buy off-the-shelf hardware, but rather to R&D low technology readiness level (TRL) projects and to and operate missions that no commercial entity would consider.

What you're missing is that NASA can both "operate missions that no commercial entity would consider" and "buy off-the-shelf hardware" to launch those missions.

Hutchinson (1, Informative)

twoallbeefpatties (615632) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396706)

Short reminder - Kay Bailey Hutchinson is the Senator from Texas. Less funding to NASA = less government funding going to Texas. Not difficult to extrapolate.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (3, Informative)

Nyeerrmm (940927) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397232)

Two reasons:
1. The technology hasn't improved that much (there just isn't that much room to improve rocket technology)
2. The budget has been cut to a quarter of what it was in the 60s

We could probably repeat Apollo at about half of what it cost the first time, but its expensive just to operate that architecture. Constellation would have suffered the same issue -- as an Augustine commission member said, if we were given a fully usable system right now, we would still have to cancel it under the current budget constraints, because we couldn't afford to operate it.

Apollo was ideal for its time and goals. It got there quick, and it got there spectacularly, and they had money to burn due to external geopolitical factors. However, NASA thought that level of funding would go on forever and never had a good scale-back option. In order to do more than a mission to LEO under the current budget we need to rethink how an exploration system should look - small cheap manned launchers, on-orbit construction, and a focus on permanence. While these things may take longer, and be a little more expensive to build, we can do it piecemeal, and it will ultimately be far more sustainable.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (2, Interesting)

dougmc (70836) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397414)

... using comparatively horribly primitive technology?

It's not really that horribly primitive, at least not compared to 2010 technology rather than 2245 technology.

Sure, we've got better computers, sensors, cameras, etc. today -- but rockets haven't changed that much since then. They're made with similar materials (well, we probably like things like carbon fiber more now, but our new materials and methods aren't *that* much better than what was used 40 years ago) and fuels. And our new high technology does make it that much more expensive.

Going to the moon was hard 40 years ago. It might be marginally easier now (if you can get past the financial part of things) -- but it's still hard.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (2, Interesting)

strack (1051390) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397516)

because that horrific abomination that is the space shuttle has been eating up NASA's budget for the past 30 years.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (3, Interesting)

darrenm (1632751) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398298)

What I have a hard time understanding is how NASA (the Americans) made it look so easy to complete six manned moon landings in a 3 year period 40 years ago, but nobody (neither NASA or any other country) has been able to do it since. By easy I mean banging them out every few months without incident/deaths.

You can't tell me during the high flying economic times, when people were going to go into orbit with their dog just for fun, that countries like Russia or China haven't wanted to be known as the second country to make it to the moon, or the first country to land three people on the surface of the moon during a mission, etc.

It's like 1972 happened and then every country on earth forgot that the moon existed, with respect to manned lunar missions.

I'm not saying it's easy, or cheap, but if NASA could do it 41 years ago why hasn't anybody stepped up to the plate?

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 4 years ago | (#32402954)

By easy I mean banging them out every few months without incident/deaths

James Lovell would like a word with you about the lack of "incidents" during Moon Shots.

Re:Not to sound like a tinfoil hat... (1)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398358)

..."why is it so hard/expensive to repeat something that was done several times 40 years ago using comparatively horribly primitive technology? "

Because these days we have systems engineers involved.

This is news? (2)

SplicerNYC (1782242) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396286)

Every day in the business world, people are "reassigned" because they are not on-board with the boss. I've seen more than a few upper level managers get "promoted" because they voiced displeasure about the direction the company was taking. This is the way the world works.

Congress needs to do more than complain (4, Interesting)

davmoo (63521) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396328)

If Congress wants the US space program to be top notch and succeed, then they need to *fully* fund it. Its "put up or shut up" time. Either give them the money to go to the moon, or close down the program.

Re:Congress needs to do more than complain (2, Funny)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396514)

Why fully fund it, when you can do a half-assed job instead? Come on, it is the American way!

Constellation was a joke (4, Insightful)

voss (52565) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396366)

They wouldnt have been able to put up a manned version until 2018. The Ares I was unnecessary, you can use
Delta IV or Atlas V already proven rockets plus the Falcon 9 launching next month.

The Ares V heavy lift rocket could be done faster,cheaper and more reliably by a shuttle derived heavy lift vehicle
such as the Direct 3.0 , the tooling is already in place for Directs version using the existing shuttle tooling.

Re:Constellation was a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32396868)

The Delta IV and Atlas V rockets are proven for cargo. To get a rocket 'man rated', i.e. ready for a human to launch in, requires vastly different engineering. Then there is the pitifully small payload in comparison. The Saturn V could put ten times as much mass into LEO as the Delta IV and Atlas V rockets can. So no, you can not use the other rockets.

Re:Constellation was a joke (4, Informative)

0123456 (636235) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397746)

The Delta IV and Atlas V rockets are proven for cargo. To get a rocket 'man rated', i.e. ready for a human to launch in, requires vastly different engineering.

No it doesn't. The cost of 'man-rating' the Delta and Atlas would be under a billion dollars; it's primarily a matter of trajectory changes to allow safe aborts, and allowing an abort to orbit after an engine failure.

After all, the shuttle is 'man rated' and kills its crew about 2.5% of the time, so it's a pretty damn low bar to pass; any current expendable with a launch escape system would be safer..

Re:Constellation was a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32397876)

"...After all, the shuttle is 'man rated' and kills its crew about 2.5% of the time,..."

Or to play the statistics game, 40% (2 of 5) of all shuttles that were launched have exploded.

Seriously, man rating should not be that hard since you just need to stick the "human cargo" into the faring of the rocket and give it a way to eject during an event. No need to pander to the pilot mentality. You are cargo, your purpose is to do science in space. The rocket will launch you via a capsule that will dock with the ISS automatically.

Re:Constellation was a joke (2, Interesting)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398412)

Funny thing is, the baselined CCDev trajectories are standard commercial satellite trajectories. The EELV upper stage inserts the crew capsule directly into a circular decay for at least a week. This was rationalized away by requiring scale up RCS on the crew capsule with enough delta-V to deorbit the capsule in the event of a service module engine failure. To their credit, Boeing's commercial capsule does this. Can't say for sure about Lockmart or Space-X.

Re:Constellation was a joke (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398420)

errr.... directly into a circular orbit that does not decay

Re:Constellation was a joke (2, Interesting)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398380)

ULA has no idea what they're getting into, trying to man-rate Delta and Atlas. Yet even as an Ares I engineer I'm helping them to get there. As for Space-X, they're the Moller Skycar of the spaceflight business. In the past, even mentioning Direct would have gotten you dismissed as a tinfoil hatter yourself, but actually, one of the proposed HLV's to come out of Hanley's study last week had 4 segment solids with an SSME or RS-68 core. Very Direct-like, but without the woo.

The Space Era is Over, Get used to it. (1, Insightful)

Simonetta (207550) | more than 4 years ago | (#32396886)

Space Exploration is a 20th century quasi-religion that is beginning to manifest itself as a mental disease among those people who continue to believe it too strongly.
  Get over it. Manned space flight was a 20th-century phenomenon that has been determined to be to expensive and too limited in returns to be continued at its former funding levels. We have serious problems now that we didn't have then, and throwing hundreds of billions of dollars (that we don't have anymore) into space doesn't solve them. Grown-up people who have to make hard and realistic decisions about our public funds and resources have decided this. Tom Swift halfwits can't accept it. Too bad. Time to get real.
    20th-century Americans are prone to economic fantasy because they have lived their whole lives inside one. What they don't realize is that their country and their government is broke. There is no trillion dollars for space explorations. There is no trillion dollars for anything. There is no trillion dollars left anywhere in the USA.
  There WAS a trillion dollars spent on a Iraq-Afghanistan war that accomplished nothing. There was a trillion dollars spent on maintaining the fantasy that some Wall Street banks and investment firms are too big to fail. There was a trillion dollars spent giving $600,000 mortgages to janitors. There was a trillion dollars spent on federal government budget deficits. Money is not a physical good. Money can be created out of nothing and can disappear back to nothing. Technical people never understand this. They don't study economics, and they don't understand economics.
  There was trillions of dollars unwisely spent...and 'there was' means the past. America was rich, now it's not. There was money in the past but there isn't going to be in the future. The trillions of dollars that 20th-century American space enthusiasts believe could and should be spent on the glorious future in space and it's endless possiblities for the betterment of humanity doesn't exist. It's spent-- it's gone. The Burger Kings and endless suburban strip malls is what you got for it. It's all that you're going to get. This is the great tragedy that is America and what it could have been, but isn't and now never will be.

Re:The Space Era is Over, Get used to it. (2, Insightful)

durrr (1316311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398580)

Let political correctness be damned; Judging from your name you're a girl, which explains why you're stuck in the "make a safe home for your future family" mindset and can't see the purpose of space exploration, the biggest and most important engineering challenge there ever was. It's probably also why you're not rated troll.
As to why space exploration is important: resources, including energy: green-24/7 unclouded solar energy, and space in abundance you cannot comprehend, microgravity manufacturing could also bring us some interesting goods. You want a safe space and nice upbringing for your children? get us out into fucking space then, our 6 billion people earth starts to feel a bit crowded, in space, you could have a billion children for yourself and there still would be plenty to go around.
Of course, there's the problem of no preexisting infrastructure, but if no one starts building it, it will never be built, just like our power/water/sewage/transport grid didn't grow and evolve by itself, it was built at the cost of billions of dollars and the sweat and blood of thousands of people over centuries of time.
Stop yelling at your man for rubbing those sticks together in a seemingly purpouseless fashion, he's inventing fire and you'll fucking love the steak he'll cook.

Re:The Space Era is Over, Get used to it. (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#32403596)

Money is not a physical good. Money can be created out of nothing and can disappear back to nothing. Technical people never understand this. They don't study economics, and they don't understand economics.

Since you understand that the economy is just a big game, perhaps you also understand that the rules of the game have been constructed in such a way that it cannot continue forever. When the current system fails, we will have an opportunity to establish a new reason to do things, rather than the current system in which greed is the primary motive. The burden of the current system is coming ever more apparent as the system has funneled more and more wealth to fewer and fewer people.

Humanity existed before the concept of money appeared and it will continue to exist after the idea passes into history.

Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (5, Informative)

code_rage (130128) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397054)

Best short summary: Norm Augustine's testimony to Congress

"...the mismatch of ends and means coupled with technical problems that were encountered on the Ares I program were such that during its first four years the program slipped between three and five years...". Read that again. After four years of development and billions of $, the objective was no closer than it was at the start of the program. I could cut NASA some slack on that if they were attempting to develop new technology, but the Ares I program was largely based on well-understood technology and an existing industrial production base.

The Program Manager does not set the budget and he was not delivered the budget that was estimated for the job. So maybe the dismissal was unfair. But the PM's job is explicitly to develop the program within the actual (not wished for) triangle of resources, schedule and performance. If the delivered resources are so inadequate that the completion date never gets closer, then something else needs to change - this is the PM's job.

Re:Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (1)

J05H (5625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32397252)

WIsh I had mod points for you.

Every year of Ares' existence pushed out first flight by at least a year. That's a jobs program not a flight development program.

Re:Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32402852)

CxP takes Shuttle and other legacy technology and tries to make it safer than any of the previous systems ever were. Apollo and Shuttle were developed without any idea what the reliability would be or what the risks were. Constellation was given the go-ahead with the understanding that it would be made much MUCH safer. Unfortunately, we actually tried to make it that much safer and the peanut gallery wondered why it was costing so much.

Re:Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 4 years ago | (#32405694)

CxP takes Shuttle and other legacy technology and tries to make it safer than any of the previous systems ever were. Apollo and Shuttle were developed without any idea what the reliability would be or what the risks were. Constellation was given the go-ahead with the understanding that it would be made much MUCH safer. Unfortunately, we actually tried to make it that much safer and the peanut gallery wondered why it was costing so much.

I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree. Ares I was based on a solid fuel rocket -- a fundamentally expensive, inflexible, and unsafe technology. There's no redundancy, no engine-out capability, no early engine shut-off capability, no restart capability, no possibility of practical stage re-use. Once the rocket segments have been poured and cured they're effectively "loaded" and have to be handled with great care to make sure there's no possibility of accidental ignition -- something totally avoided with liquid fuel rockets where the oxidiser and fuel are kept completely separately until the engines are actually running.

As someone who works in the space industry, I was dismayed at the decision by NASA to ignore the valuable lessons of other nations' experience with man-rated rockets, in particular the value of engine-out capability. While watching the Ares IX launch, one of my colleagues remarked that, "No matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd." I think that's the situation CxP found itself in; trying make a fundamentally inappropriate technology safe enough for human spaceflight is always going to be both very expensive and eventually unsuccessful.

I'm just glad that the Ares-I got cancelled before it killed yet more astronauts.

Re:Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 3 years ago | (#32408480)

no possibility of practical stage re-use.

The solid rocket motors are reusable. I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Once the rocket segments have been poured and cured they're effectively "loaded" and have to be handled with great care to make sure there's no possibility of accidental ignition -- something totally avoided with liquid fuel rockets where the oxidiser and fuel are kept completely separately

Red herring argument. Cryogenic liquid oxygen is way more dangerous and expensive to handle than loaded solid propellant.

I'm just glad that the Ares-I got cancelled before it killed yet more astronauts.

It isn't canceled. Constellation won't be canceled unless congress approves the Obama budget. Unless that happens, NASA is required by law to continue working the program of record. Just curious: which space industry do you work in? Your British spelling makes me curious :)

Re:Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 3 years ago | (#32408718)

Just curious: which space industry do you work in? Your British spelling makes me curious

I'm a PhD student at Surrey Space Centre, which is in the UK.

Re:Unfair? Maybe. Overdue? Definitely. (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 3 years ago | (#32411672)

That's cool! I appreciate your concerns about Constellation. There's a lot of bad press and unfortunate misinformation floating around, yet despite that it's extremely important to listen to the criticism.

Ares may be a polished turd, but it's the best turd ever built to date. It has the most thorough fault detection, caution and warning and abort systems of any human rated launch vehicle. First stage is reusable, just like Shuttle solid rocket motors. Hypergol and cryogenic handling is safer and more efficient than legacy systems. Block II first stages may even eliminate hydrazine completely in favor of electromechanial thrust vector control actuators. If first stage leaks, at a case or nozzle joint, the resulting side thrust can be easily countered until the end of first stage burn. Since it's not a side-mount, the escaping gas won't harm anything. We've got fault detection in both the forward and aft skirt in case of leaks on either end of the case.

1. "Black zones": In the event of an uncontained failure, the launch abort system can escape cleanly even near max Q. Ares has no "black zones", despite what the tinfoil crew may claim. Escaping from an uncontained failure is not just a requirement for solid boosters; liquid engines can blow up, too.

2. Thermal Protection Systems (TPS): Orion has sufficient thermal protection to make a worst case straight in ballistic re-entry at any point during ascent, and the capsule floats well enough and has enough life support on board to safely come down anywhere on the planet. The competing lightweight commercial capsules, launched on EELV's, do not have TPS scaled for re-entry from a lunar mission, and it's unknown if they'd even survive the heat of a ballstic North Atlantic re-entry.

3. Failsafe insertion: Ares inserts Orion in an elliptical orbit with a negative perigee altitude. If something goes horribly wrong on Orion, they come down safely in half a rev. Contrast this with the CCTS approach, naively copied from commercial satellite launching - they put their capsule (and upper stage) into a long lifetime circular orbit. If the capsule has a failure, they're stuck up there. Depending on which version you look at, the commercial crew aren't even wearing launch and entry suits.

Ares I is the safest rocket ever built. I'm proud to be a part of it. Regardless what goes on at the executive level, Constellation remains the Program of Record and it will literally take an act of Congress to kill it. Until then, Obama's proposed budget is just that: proposed.

Politics over engineering... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32397328)

The Obama administrations efforts to kill Constellation is rooted in a desire to prevent Bush from receiving credit for any future moon landing or exploration of Mars.
This is not idle speculation, and has been reported in many places. NASA finally had a "engineer" in the top position leading the program (Michael Griffin). Griffin was focused on engineering and science instead of playing politics and the Obama administration has crushed him.

Re:Politics over engineering... (2)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#32398290)

There's zero chance that Bush would receive credit for the 18th moon landing. History wouldn't be interested in such a non-event.

As far as a Mars mission is concerned, it wasn't Bush's idea anyway.

Re:Politics over engineering... (2, Informative)

RoboRay (735839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32399612)

There's zero chance that Bush would receive credit for the 18th moon landing.

Bush might get some credit for the 7th, though.

Re:Politics over engineering... (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#32399982)

Yep, I screwed up and confused the 18 in "Apollo 18" with the number of moon landings.

Poltics of harping (1)

finalbroadcast (1030452) | more than 4 years ago | (#32402230)

This is what happens when Congress tries to become an executive power. The blurring of lines in terms of what roles are laid out of for Congress and the President is getting to be just ridiculous. Incidents like this go to prove that Congress is misinterpreting its oversight powers as a reason to run every executive decision up the flagpole to review. This doesn't do anything but allow congress to play politics, this happened under Bush, and its happening again under Obama. On the same token, the Presidency has become the leader in terms of legislation and has pushed war powers further than in the past.

Re:Poltics of harping (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32402876)

Checks and balances. This is what Congress does when the White House tries to overstep its Constitutional authority.

Re:Poltics of harping (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#32403620)

Checks and balances. This is what Congress does when the White House tries to overstep its Constitutional authority.

The issue today seems to be that all three branches regularly overstep their Constitutional authority.

It will fall to the American people to check and balance the system.

Re:Poltics of harping (1)

finalbroadcast (1030452) | more than 4 years ago | (#32404238)

Well exactly, the problem is that this is within the President's constitutional authority, yet Congress wants to second guess him. When the President crosses the line of course someone should step in, but in this case it's the Congress overstepping its bounds. We should make all incoming Reps and Senators take a basic government course.

Re:Poltics of harping (1)

Kartoffel (30238) | more than 3 years ago | (#32411792)

The White House proposes a budget. Congress then decides whether to approve it or not. If they don't approve it, the White House can work with Congress to reach a budget that will pass.

It's not rocket science.

We will be robots sooner than men will get to mars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32402254)

Why spend all this money on getting our stupid flesh bags to mars when before we can even do that effectively, we will be able to encode human minds in vacuum survivable form?

Micromanagement. (1)

eyendall (953949) | more than 4 years ago | (#32405500)

Micromanagement by Congress and incoherent, patch-work legislation are at the root of America's problems. A politicized public service makes failure inevitable. People don't trust congress, they don't trust 'government'. Who can blame them? Who is out there with sufficient public trust to do the oversight and regulation than the economy desperately needs? Do professional, non-partisan technocrats exist in America? Where do they come from?

Fuck congress (1)

Legion303 (97901) | more than 3 years ago | (#32406882)

I don't recall that dipshit Hutchison complaining when GWB also proposed increased space mission spending. I'm not familiar with Rockefeller's record or even how long he's been in office. He's a senator, though, which means I can safely assume he's a fuckup too.

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