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Doctor Slams Hospital's "Please" Policy

samzenpus posted more than 4 years ago | from the paging-doctor-manners dept.

Medicine 572

Administrators at England's Worthing Hospital are insisting that doctors say the magic word when writing orders for blood tests on weekends. If a doctor refuses to write "please" on the order, the test will be refused. From the article: "However, a doctor at the hospital said on condition of anonymity that he sees the policy as a money-saving measure that could prove dangerous for patients. 'I was shocked to come in on Sunday and find none of my bloods had been done from the night before because I'd not written "please,"' the doctor said. 'I had no results to guide treatment of patients. Myself and a senior nurse had to take the bloods ourselves, which added hours to our 12-hour shifts. This system puts patients' lives at risk. Doctors are wasting time doing the job of the technicians.'"

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Easy solution (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32440904)

Write, "Please stop sucking cock and do these blood tests, bitch!" :-) That includes the word please!

Take my blood test... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32440916)

or I sick my vampires on you, bitch.

Just wanna say (4, Insightful)

Barrinmw (1791848) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440924)

Forced gratitude has zero meaning.

Re:Just wanna say (5, Funny)

Farmer Tim (530755) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440964)

Thanks for that.

Re:Just wanna say (-1, Flamebait)

snowboardin159 (1744212) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441044)

so true, i had a 'friend' that would never say thank you for any of the million favors i did for them, so i stopped doing any favors. but if its in ur goddamn job description, DO UR JOB.

Re:Just wanna say (1)

gullevek (174152) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441480)

probably they should outsource that to India or China :D

Re:Just wanna say (1)

cyphercell (843398) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441488)

A task has to be well defined and proven in order to finish on time. Technicians are not graduate students. The technicians job is to facilitate a demand for resources, measuring efficiency, cost, time, feasibility, etc. The technicians job is not to assemble every possible part in every possible configuration. As a pc technician I wonder how it would have been if the three of them were working towards a common goal, they probably would have jammed the project out in like an hour. Other times the technician will need to work alone, basically the more reproducable something is the more a technician will tend to it. If the task is extrenuous it might be more of a favor than a job. That and the budget might be kind of crappy, technicians look terrible when they're underfunded/understaffed.

Re:Just wanna say (1)

cyp43r (945301) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441032)

Because nowadays all our greetings, thank-yous, pleases, goodbyes and how are yous? are all heartfelt, and not token words we exchange in set formulas anyways.

Re:Just wanna say (3, Informative)

Moofie (22272) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441134)

Mine are.

They cost me little, and get me lots. Common courtesy is a very good investment.

Re:Just wanna say (1)

nmb3000 (741169) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441166)

Words are just words, they have as much or as little meaning as the person saying them wishes to express.

That said, having somebody say "how's it going?" as you quickly walk past them does annoy me. Why bother saying something like that if you're never going to hear an answer? I usually will just nod or say hello instead of asking an obviously empty question like that.

Re:Just wanna say (1)

i'm lost (1247580) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441194)

Saying thank you at least acknowledges that the other person did something for you and it didn't go unnoticed. Even if there's no emotion behind it or anything, that's still something.

Re:Just wanna say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441068)

Get a rubber stamp that says "please". Even better is one of those self inking ones. About as impersonal as you can get while still saying it. Although it might not be considered "writing". The doctor could also scribble "please" as quickly as possible, so it looks like a squiggly line.

Re:Just wanna say (1)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441078)

sudo get me a blood test is probably more appropriate than please get me a blood test

Re:Just wanna say (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441100)

I do find it insulting but in many situations I tend to overlook it.

For example, if someone is being obsequious towards me because their job depends on it (like at a restaurant or bar), that is, to some degree, acceptable and even expected (sad that we expect/require people to act fake in certain situations).

Situations that I find it completely unacceptable in, however, are ones that touch on issues of trust.. Like when a supposed friend wants something from you, but rather than simply cutting to the chase they beat around the bush and try to offer you something, anything, as if though it were a gift, so that when you accept it, you are placed into a position of obligation to provide them with what they initially wanted when it is later tactfully and subtly revealed to you. Some call that business, I call it a prime example of what a human should not be.

What is sad though is that over the years, I have come to the conclusion that if you are only going to hang out with decent people that don't use these sort of tactics, you are going to be rather lonely. But, at least you'll know who you can trust and depend on.

On another note... One sort of spin off / sidetrack way I am offended by this sort of pretend pandering is how so many companies make it a point to make all of their advertisements multicultural, it looks like the fucking village people you have cops, indians, firemen, construction workers, chinese people wearing the pointy round woven rice planting hat (seriously when the fuck have you seen someone wearing one of those in America? I mean, I live in America, and I own one, really, and I have NEVER seen another one in my life- and I have been actively looking), and of course a black lady in her 30s has to be somewhere in the mix. The JWs are infamous about this, seriously, next time you see one of their articles of literature lying around somewhere for free look at the pictures and if you cannot spot 7 different culturally stereotyped representatives I would be amazed. Who knows in 10 years they might have to add a furry to the mix.

Re:Just wanna say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441182)

Who knows in 10 years they might have to add a furry to the mix.

A furry in a white shirt with black tie. That hurts my brain.

Re:Just wanna say (3, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441108)

Forced gratitude has zero meaning.

Sometimes you have to force the issue if you want to create the habit in people.
My mother spent a lot of time reminding me to "say please" and "thank you" until it eventually stuck.

Anyways, this isn't really about "saying please," it's about creating a small barrier for doctors to overcome if they want their blood tests done by the apparently overworked staff during the weekend.

The managers said the move is aimed at easing pressure on hospital workers charged with performing blood tests by making doctors consider whether the tests are essential.

Eventually, doctors will just start writing please on all their lab request forms and the hospital will be back where it started.

Re:Just wanna say (1)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441300)

Eventually, doctors will just start writing please on all their lab request forms and the hospital will be back where it started.

If the doctors were thinking ahead, they'd get some stamps or stencils or stationary with the word "please" already there. And then complain to the management every single time they didn't get done.

Of course, this will end when a customer complains about a delayed blood test...

Perhaps will need to be a legal complaint, but...

Re:Just wanna say (0, Redundant)

hkmwbz (531650) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441484)

I don't know... Those guys at the store that smiling at me and being friendly and nice are probably just doing it because they are trained to do so. But I still feel more welcome. At least they are making an effort to come across as friendly and service-minded. If I come across someone who doesn't make that effort, I feel less welcome. Of course, I always try to be as polite as possible myself. It doesn't hurt one bit to use words like "thank you", "please", "my apologies", and so on.

Not credible (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32440928)

The source for this is an "odd news" blog, whose source is a "newspaper" called The Sun. You may have heard of it. National Enquirer anyone?

Re:Not credible (5, Informative)

TouchAndGo (1799300) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441200)

Agreed, I can't find any other source for this news, and it's pretty bizarre to be quoting a tabloid as a source. Unless you're the Men in Black.

I don't know how things work in the UK (1, Insightful)

logjon (1411219) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440932)

But in the US all it would take is one catastrophic delay and there would be millions of dollars in lawsuits.

Re:I don't know how things work in the UK (2, Funny)

Rusty KB (1778458) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441072)

I dunno, I'm anxious to come and visit the US as soon as humanly possible. From this side of the pond it looks all it would take is pretty much anything you can scream loud enough about and there would be millions of dollars in lawsuits. I can't wait to visit your great country. My lungs are big, my throat is strong, and I can scream like a cicada. I'm gonna be rich!

Re:I don't know how things work in the UK (1)

mOdQuArK! (87332) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441094)

Unfortunately, the people making most of the money are the lawyers filing the lawsuits "on behalf" of their clients, not necessarily the clients.

Re:I don't know how things work in the UK (1)

repapetilto (1219852) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441112)

Scream too loud and youll learn you lesson

Fire them (0, Troll)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440938)

How hard can it be? If they refuse to do the job or require stupid conditions (seriously? writing "please"?) in order to do it, just fire the people. Its not like there is a shortage of workers.

Really, let the free market (if we have one anyways, and no doubt the UK has screwed themselves already with NHS and the like....) rule and get rid of the worthless technicians. Its not too hard.

Re:Fire them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32440968)

Doctors generally don't get to fire administrators.

Re:Fire them (2, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440986)

It should be a cut-and-dry case for management though. Workers won't do the job they signed up to do, fire them. It doesn't matter if you were hired to flip burgers, do blood tests, be a code monkey or sort mail. If you don't do the job you were hired to do, you get fired.

Re:Fire them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441478)

If you had actually bothered to read the article, or the blurb for that matter, you might have found out that the techs are actually instructed to not do the bloodtest when the magic word is absent. So they are doing their job, as instructed by managemen, by refusing to do the test.

In this case management needs a swift kick to the curb. Or, better, the hospital should be fined a substantial amount for letting stupidity and departmental turf wars get in the way of medical care. After which the mangement responsible and the chairman of the board should be fired. Without golden parachute.

Re:Fire them (1)

jpkotta (1495893) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440978)

The administrators are requiring it, not the techs.

Re:Fire them (4, Funny)

plover (150551) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441238)

Yes, the administrators are requiring it, but likely at the behest of the technicians. And the techs are enforcing it by not performing unless the order says "please". Kind of makes a mockery of the term "order" there, too.

I imagine this is going on today.

Original order: "Draw Mr. Smith's blood."
Technician: "Denied, you didn't write the magic word."
Revised order: "Draw Mr. Smith's blood by 9:00, and if you ever question my orders again I'll have your arse sacked."
Technician: "Those are magic words. Here's your lab results."

Re:Fire them (0)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440980)

Really, let the free market (if we have one anyways, and no doubt the UK has screwed themselves already with NHS and the like....) rule and get rid of the worthless technicians. Its not too hard.

Yeah, the NHS kinda sucks compared to public health care in other countries. But that's all they got and I guess they should be glad they're not buttfucked like the americans.

Re:Fire them (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441172)

Please, thats Americans, you insensitive clod.

Re:Fire them (2, Interesting)

Barrinmw (1791848) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440998)

Next thing you know, people will start getting fired there if they don't open the door for a lady.

Re:Fire them (3, Funny)

Cryacin (657549) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441026)

Or for opening a door for a lady. Depending on which day it is. Remember kids, odds open, evens don't!

Re:Fire them (4, Funny)

Z34107 (925136) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441174)

Or for opening a door for a lady. Depending on which day it is

Very true. I err on the side of caution when it comes to holding the door open for people, but some manage to be offended by such a gesture.

I held the door to my dorm for some chick late one night. After hours the doors require you to swipe your student ID to get in. It's a pain, so decent folk don't let the door swing shut after getting the reader to take their ID.

She yelled something about "I can get it myself!" but she was kind of drunk, so I couldn't really understand her. She was angry, though, so I shut the door, and it locked.

Turns out she forgot her ID. I have no idea how long she was standing outside. I think there's a moral in there somewhere.

Re:Fire them (3, Insightful)

mandolin (7248) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441328)

One of the good things about living in Texas is that it is always acceptable to hold the door open for anybody, and more generally than that, it's never impolite to be polite.

Re:Fire them (1)

weirdo557 (959623) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441382)

true. never had a problem with anyone being offended. i usually get a thanks or a small smile.

Re:Fire them (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441216)

Usually it's the customers you aren't supposed to be rude to.

Re:Fire them (4, Insightful)

icegreentea (974342) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441002)

It doesn't seem like its the technicians who are forcing this through. TFA says it was the management who decided it was a good idea to "ease pressure". Which probably meant that the techies were feeling overworked (they probably are overworked) and complained (not really expecting something like THIS to happen). And instead of doing anything constructive (or maybe they're just all out of money), the management went for some crazy ass stupid idea that somehow past muster.

Pointy Head Boss eh? IT isn't the only place where they exist.

Re:Fire them (2, Insightful)

tsm_sf (545316) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441130)

From reading TFA (I know, I know...) it seems like more of a "if you can't be bothered to remember one thing your test couldn't have been that important" idea. No clue if it's an appropriate move, but it does seem like an awful lot of whining for what is essentially a minor procedural change.

Re:Fire them (1)

z0idberg (888892) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441136)

past muster.

The saying is actually "passed muster" as in to pass muster (meaning to be judged acceptable)

Re:Fire them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441554)

past muster.

The saying is actually "passed muster" as in to pass muster (meaning to be judged acceptable)

The saying is actually "pass the mustard" as in uh...

I'm so sorry for wasting your time.

Re:Fire them (1)

fireball84513 (1632561) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441192)

Actually, the report said that the policy was, in fact, meant to take the workload off of the technicians by making the doctors really consider whether a blood test was essential. In those respects, I think that the administrators had a really good idea, albeit a tedious and frustrating one. I know that I would be thinking twice about every blood test I ordered if I had to write "please" on every goddamn one. If there is anything I hate, it's being forced to show my appreciation, whether or not it's deserved.

Re:Fire them (1)

Rallion (711805) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441388)

Yeah, I would agree. My initial guess was that the administrators saw a morale problem with the techs, and this was their idea to fix it. In fact, if you limit the view to to the techs' perspective, the idea makes sense, and I think that's probably the mistake that they made. Or, perhaps, being administrators and therefore perhaps being more used to dealing with stupid bureaucratic requirements, it never occurred to them that the doctors have more important things to worry about...

Re:Fire them (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441240)

In the UK (unlike some other countries with universal healthcare) the doctors are direct employees of the state. This means that whenever there is a budget crunch, the politicians start trying to see whose salary they can cut, and a lot of times it comes down to doctors. This is obviously not ideal. But really when you do come up with the ideal system, let me know.

Re:Fire them (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441310)

What part of "Administrators at England's Worthing Hospital are insisting..." did you fail to understand? Great idea, fire the technicians for the stupid ideas from the people who do the hiring/firing/marching orders.

Re:Fire them (2, Informative)

Phillip2 (203612) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441362)

The NHS is not perfect, but generally gives a high standard of care. The free market is not a universal panacea as the banking sector shows.

The other point to remember is that this story came from the Sun. It wouldn't be the first time it has invented a story. The free market in
journalism means saying what people want to believe, rather than what is true.

Re:Fire them (1)

ep32g79 (538056) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441468)

The Free Market(tm) will solve this by introducing the "Please Pad" for doctors to write blood work orders on.

What the fuck is this (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32440946)

Do these fuckers not know of House?

Also they're *doctors* writing documents for work. You don't need to add shit like please, thank you, or draw hearts instead of dots for your is for work. People are supposed to do things because it's their job to do things.

"Excuse me Mr. Safety Inspector, why didn't you inspect this stuff?"

"No one told me please. Accountability Motherfucker, do you know it?"

Yeah, that's not gonna stand up in a court of law. Or maybe it will.

Re:What the fuck is this (1)

cyp43r (945301) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441008)

House is a dick. That is the twist: the doctor is a big jerk that gets away with it because of his incredible gifts.

Re:What the fuck is this (1)

Barrinmw (1791848) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441024)

We all know House would be fired within a day from any real hospital, he just gets some extra leeway cause he banged the Director.

Re:What the fuck is this (1)

Cryacin (657549) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441162)

In reality, such a person would not successfully exist. Believe me.

Genius has its limits, but stupidity has no bounds. Also never piss off stupid people, there's just so many more of them than us. Furthermore, don't argue with an idiot. They'll just pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Finally, if you're a prick who makes enemies at all turns and in every corner, you have no reprieve from prying eyes. Sooner or later, you will make a mistake, and for that brief moment, they will get you.

Would it kill you to be civil? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32440966)

"I was shocked to come in on Sunday and find none of my bloods had been done from the night before because I'd not written 'please,'" the doctor said.

Would it kill you to be civil you insensitive clod?

Bloody doctor prancing about the hospital like some Lord High Muckity-Muck expecting the staff to scrape and bow and tug their forelock as they mumble "Yes M'Lord. Right away M'Lord. May it please M'Lord."

Re:Would it kill you to be civil? (3, Insightful)

horatio (127595) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441098)

Would it kill you to do your fucking job without having to be coddled, you whiny little bitch?

No? Clean out your desk, because I'll find someone else who will. It doesn't mean the doctors treat the staff like shit, but a minimum of doing the tasks you were hired to do is absolutely expected, demanded in exchange for your paycheck. What next? Should the doctor have slip a $5 note with the request? Bullshit. Do. your. fucking. job.

Re:Would it kill you to be civil? (0)

Moofie (22272) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441144)

If I were your supervisor and you dealt with your peers that way, I'd can your happy ass in a heartbeat. There is no possible way that you are competent enough to warrant abusiveness of your coworkers.

Re:Would it kill you to be civil? (2, Insightful)

Cryacin (657549) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441180)

No manager of skill would ever say that. But every manager of skill would certainly think it.

Re:Would it kill you to be civil? (1)

Kuroji (990107) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441394)

I may not be in the medical field, but if any of the people who worked under me said something like that I'd recommend their termination in a heartbeat. When you play with people's lives, you DO. NOT. FUCK. AROUND.

I don't give a good god damn whether they say 'pretty please send me help, I don't feel well' or 'JESUS H SOMEONE IS DYING GET DOWN HERE AND HELP ME YOU MOTHERFUCKERS' because they're going to get help. If you require them to phrase it in a particular way you're in the wrong damned field of work, and if you require someone to say please and thank you you're going to be sadly disappointed.

Welcome to the adult world. We are not children in the first grade. We don't always play nice. We don't get to whine to teacher when someone else doesn't play nice and do exactly what we want. We do what we have to do, and then we can go to the pub and whine to our friends over a beer, or go home to dinner and complain to our family about how horrible the day was.

If you were my supervisor and you were able to fire me with that comment, I can guarantee you I would get your ass fired and get a nice settlement to keep it all out of the news.

Re:Would it kill you to be civil? (1)

w3woody (44457) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441252)

As a matter of fact, yes--in this case it could kill you.

Oh Please! (4, Insightful)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440974)

while I'm all for manners, refusing vital blood tests when doctors forget to put the word "please" on weekend requests just seems damn right stupid and dangerous. How can any manager sit there and support this measure?

This sounds like something out of a Dilbert cartoon or from Office Space, I could just see him saying "Yeah... you didn't put please on your TPS reports... so I'm going to need you to come in Saturday, m'kay?"

Re:Oh Please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441092)

Its simple. If its a request instead of an order it can be denied. = cost cutting measure.

Re:Oh Please! (2, Insightful)

starfishsystems (834319) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441190)

They probably also don't do tests when the patient has not been clearly identified on the requisition.

In other words, this is just another among many procedural details that professionals understand have to be followed. They may or not personally agree with the value of some of those details, but they comply anyway. It goes with the job.

Writing "please" is considerably less of a hardship than filling out a justification of why a given procedure has to be done on the weekend, when administrators know that it creates an increased risk of displacing some other procedure that might be more vital.

It's marginally more of a hardship than ticking a checkbox that says "high priority". But I think I could handle it. And it stands to reason that not everything can be a high priority.

Re:Oh Please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441422)

Not having a patient name on the order is a critical failure. Your options at that point are: 1) not do the test. 2) Do the test on a random/semi-random patient. One of these is a clearly superior medical option. Unless you think sending invalid data to the doc is a good idea.

Not having "please" on the order is.... well.. no hinderance to the test at all. Options at that point are: 1) Not do the test because it doesn't say fucking please on it. 2) Do the test ordered by the form on the patient named on the form. One of these is a clearly superior medical option. Please, not necessary.

Assuming this shit is real, these administrators need to be stabbed in the larynx, so the doctors can refuse to treat them for not saying "please, fix me"

Re:Oh Please! (1)

dark_requiem (806308) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441340)

How can any manager sit there and support this measure?

Look carefully, I think you answered your own question...

Re:Oh Please! (1)

Dumnezeu (1673634) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441482)

Google should implement this policy. You should have to add "please" at the end of all your search queries.

Really? (1)

joshki (152061) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440982)

What a ridiculous policy.

Liability Issues? (3, Insightful)

ricree (969643) | more than 4 years ago | (#32440994)

I have to imagine that this would open the hospital up to some liability issues. The first time someone dies because a test wasn't run in time, I have a hard time seeing a jury accepting "the doctor didn't ask me nice enough" as an excuse for not running the test the doctor ordered.

Re:Liability Issues? (4, Funny)

Lawbeefaroni (246892) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441062)

If a patient refuses to write "please" as they die, the death will be refused.

In extreme cases, the Lazarus Engine will be employed.

How could there be any liability issues?

Magic word (1)

w00tsauce (1482311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441006)

Did they contract out hospital administration to a bunch of kids in a treehouse?

Next one (4, Funny)

kikito (971480) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441034)

Planes will not be allowed to move until the pilots say "Engage".

Re:Next one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441074)

I always Yell Engage before I start rolling, darn ATC with no sense of humor!!

Doctors caused it, admin enforcing it... (5, Insightful)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441040)

Having done alot of chemo and hospital over the years and having a number of doctors in my immediate family (1 heart, 1 gastro, 1 family practice, 1 abdominal) and a doctor turned administrator, I bet the doctors have been jackasses and the hospital administrators pushed this down the throats of the doctors because they'd treated the lab folks like cattle.

I bet there were a ton of meetings about how to balance out increased workload with less staffing and the administrator's solution was "please".

Re:Doctors caused it, admin enforcing it... (0)

Aeternitas827 (1256210) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441132)

I bet there were a ton of meetings about how to balance out increased workload with less staffing and the administrator's solution was "please".

Increased workload with less staffing...now, I would presume that a doctor ordering some manner of labwork would have a legitimate reason for doing so (i.e., not testing an infant for HIV when clearly neither parent has it). Therefore, giving the lab techs an out on doing it, particularly when the reason is as idiotic as this, is only a detriment to getting things done.

If your problem is more work and less people to do it, your solution is to find a way to either decrease the work--difficult with this situation--or get more people. That way, you're not messing around with the health of people you've been hired (directly or indirectly) to help.

That make NO SENSE whatsoever (1)

aepervius (535155) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441420)

Because now the doctor just rubber stamp please everywhere and the workload STAY THE SAME. And ther lab folk are STILL treated like cattle. Now matter you see it , or the justification you might come up, it is a stupid solution, as it does not help workload : it adds workload on doctor (forget a please, and you have to make it yourself, possibly endengering the patient).

Rubber stamp (5, Funny)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441052)

They should just get self-inking rubber stamps that say 'Please'.

The administrators need to get a clue (4, Insightful)

mark-t (151149) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441058)

They're called written _orders_ for a reason... that is, they have all the justification that is required to simply be followed. While it's all very well and good to want people to be polite, it is no more required that a doctor remember to say please than it is required that air traffic controllers say "please" when directing airplanes.

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (2, Interesting)

NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441148)

That is right. God does not say 'please' or "thank you."

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441410)

God doesn't say anything at all, since he doesn't exist.

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (1)

oddTodd123 (1806894) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441250)

it is no more required that a doctor remember to say please than it is required that air traffic controllers say "please" when directing airplanes.

You read the book Outliers? Supposedly a Colombian flight [wikipedia.org] crashed in New York and killed everyone on board partly because the pilots were intimidated by the brusk manners of the air traffic controllers.

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441332)

"You read the book Outliers? Supposedly a Colombian flight [wikipedia.org] crashed in New York and killed everyone on board partly because the pilots were intimidated by the brusk manners of the air traffic controllers."

First paragraph from the article you link:

8 of 9 crew members and 65 of 149 passengers on board were killed.

Good job with the reading comprehension.

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (1)

putaro (235078) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441418)

You're supposed to say:

Please try harder to comprehend what you read.

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441546)

No, he HAS to say it.... please

Re:The administrators need to get a clue (2, Insightful)

quantaman (517394) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441516)

FTA is sounds like this isn't about politeness as about costs/ordering tests on the weekend. My (heavily extrapolated) understanding of the situation is that doctors work any day of the week, but technicians are more 9-5 Mon-Fri. The administration apparently felt that the doctors weren't considering that technicians generally didn't work weekends (maybe they get overtime then too), thus some tests that could be ignored or left till a weekday were still being ordered on the weekend. The administration tried to stop this by forcing the doctors to write "please", presumably reminding the doctor that it was an inconvenience for the technicians and to consider if it was a test that could wait.

If my interpretation is accurate than the administrators main mistake was in how they reacted to doctors forgetting to write "please". The writing of "please" was just supposed to nag the doctors, so rather than refuse the test if there is no "please" just have the administrator nag the doctor come Monday.

doesn't suprise me one bit (1, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441066)

this kind of petty crap is exactly why health services around the world suck ass. it starts with doctors who are trained in med school that they are better then everyone else, and treat staff like crap who in turn retaliate with stupid rules of their own. management are usually too busy covering their own arse to take charge and fix the situation.

I worked in a path lab for 3 years, and i saw everything you could imagine right down to someone threatening staff because they weren't allowed to keep a biopsied body part.

the medical field is shitty, never get involved in it.

Re:doesn't suprise me one bit (1)

mgchan (1690418) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441168)

are you gonna stick to your guns if you get sick or injured?

believe me, most people in medical school learn that they are NOT better than everyone else. because you take some of the top people out of college and put them in the same class. and then for another 3-6 or more years after medical school there is always someone else ahead of you who you work for.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. as a physician I know that I cannot draw blood as well as a phlebotomist, I can't run an MRI machine better than a trained tech, I don't know the surgical tools as well as a scrub nurse, and I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to run most blood tests or stain path samples. In turn, I don't deride a pharmacist for not knowing details of a disease process or fault a CT tech for calling a code blue for vasovagal syncope. Maybe I'll get frustrated when something isn't done quickly enough, but if I just get an explanation of why it happens and see that the other person is working as hard as I am, I'll understand.

Re:doesn't suprise me one bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441308)

I just want to point out that "phlebotomist" is a great word.

Reminds me of this article: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441070)

http://godfuckingdammit.com/story.html?story_id=1242

Reminds me of INTERCAL. (3, Insightful)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441114)

INTERCAL [wikipedia.org] is an esoteric programming language meant as a parody of stuffy, arcane programming language requirements. One of its more interesting requirements involves the "PLEASE" statement. As an undocumented feature of the language, the compiler will fail if programs are either too polite, or insufficiently polite - which involves placing the PLEASE keyword in front of statements the correct number of times.

Kind of like here - if the Doctor just peppers all of his written requests with too many PLEASE statements, that's condescending right there - too polite. But insufficient politeness is equally worthy of wrath - all completely nonsensical requirements, dehumanizing the interaction even as they demand for a confusingly artificial subset of human interaction.

Ryan Fenton

N.H.S. Pinafore (3, Interesting)

IronClad (114176) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441126)

I've seen that N.H.S. Pinafore show before. I can even still hum some of the snappy lyrics.

I hold when diagnosing a disease,
The expression, "if you please",
A particularly gentlemanly tone implants.
And so do my sisters, and my cousins, and my aunts!

Stick close to your desk
And never check a pulse
and you may all be rulers
of our hospitals.

or something like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9-ZZRXBEcM [youtube.com] with "please" goodness at 4:00 and 5:40

Just who does this Doctor Dick Deadeye think he is? Doesn't he know that a British lab technician is any man's equal, (excepting, of course, mine).

big waste of time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441128)

administrators have no idea how busy the physicians can be, especially on the weekends where they may be short staffed.

in recent years there has been a push to avoid abbreviations, which is already somewhat of a hassle -- writing out the entire medication name, dosage, and instructions takes a long time. and yes, when you are trying to see 40 or 50 patients in one day, whom you may or may not be completely familiar with, an extra 30 seconds per order is a huge deal.

writing "please" on every blood test is just contrived and useless. why not just print it on the order form? and to NOT do the test because of this is even worse because it affects patient care.

Re:big waste of time (2, Informative)

91degrees (207121) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441358)

Doctors have no idea how busy lab staff can be, and they're short staffed on the weekends as well.

And I simply don't believe the bit about having to say "please". It's not true. The Sun lied (again) [blogspot.com] .

socialized healthcare (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441170)

As a brit who moved to the US I'm not super surprised. I just dearly hope government doesn't take over hospitals here like they did in the UK. Whatever you think about this incident, in the US you can go somewhere else for healthcare if you don't like it. In the UK you're kind of out of luck.

I know there are a lot of 'yes, but...' responses to that, like any political or economic judgement. Like you might not afford the alternate in the US, or whatever. But on the grand scale, I far prefer it here because I have choices.

Re:socialized healthcare (1)

koreaman (835838) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441356)

Seems like a happy medium would be for the government to pay for healthcare, but for private hospitals and doctors to provide it?

Re:socialized healthcare (1)

Totenglocke (1291680) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441536)

Seems like a happy medium would be for the government to pay for healthcare, but for private hospitals and doctors to provide it?

Or you know, people could be responsible for themselves and pay for their own treatment, just like they do for any other good or service....

Simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441198)

Point out that there's no "Please" clause in the standard operating procedures and fire the snotty little wankers for not doing the job.

Not sure if this is a true story, but... (4, Insightful)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441208)

This makes me wonder how big of an asshole the doctors had been to force this kind of a policy on them.

This is simpky made up news (2, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441292)

The Sun has no veracity. I seriously doubt there's any requirement to say "please". Am I accusing a major national newspaper of outright lying?

Yes.

However, what I do believe is that the overworked lab didn't agree with the doctor that these tests had to be done immediately. All doctors always insist that their tests are urgent (and I don't fault them for this) but the lab has to consider priorities.

Re:This is simpky made up news (2, Insightful)

GrahamCox (741991) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441372)

The Sun has no veracity.[...] a major national newspaper

One part of this is untrue.

Re:This is simpky made up news (1)

jisatsusha (755173) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441512)

Not really, you can be influential and still a liar. Remember this is NewsCorp we're talking about here.

And in the British Army (1)

sehlat (180760) | more than 4 years ago | (#32441376)

Lieutenant: Sergeant! Take that machine-gun nest!

Sergeant: Sod off! You didn't say "please."

America's future (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32441380)

Welcome to socialized medicine. Where your death just isn't as important as the thought police and a government paycheck.

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