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EVE Online PVP Tournament Streamed Live

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the enemy's-gate-is-down dept.

Games 101

infinitevalence writes "Every few months the good Viking programmers of the north organize and present one of the most geeky e-sports out there. Thanks to them, for three weekends in a row we get to watch player-controlled spaceships fight it out for accolades and unique in-game items available only to the first, second, and third place winners. This year CCP has all of the content live online and streaming in HD for your viewing pleasure. So find a drink, whip up some snacks, watch the shiny explosions, and listen to the soothing words of player experts as they walk you through the action!"

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101 comments

eat my shorts slashdot !! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476040)

Eat my shorts slashdot !!

Re:eat my shorts slashdot !! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476174)

I ask you to puzzle over the following questions:

No doubt you all know that my piece just blew a smoking crater into the voting queue because I was so floridly delusional when I wrote it.

My question is: while I was not angry with you, but merely irritated enough to point out the error of your ways to you, not only was I not delusional I was as sober as the Pope and as clear-headed as a fighter pilot the whole time I worked on it.

I took great care to write it just the way I did, that I myself regard it as the very best piece I have written in my life, while that other lucidly written and informative piece I dropped into Edit a few hours later, merely helpful and informative but not in any way important.

I'd like to take up the question of how, after making just two small edits, I might resubmit only to have you blast it to Front Page.

My psychiatrist Dr. Hugh Maquire of Truro, Nova Scotia once speculated that Schizophrenia could be cured through nothing more than weekly Psychotherapy.

I now know him to be correct. Solving the Software Problem [softwareproblem.org] is the textbook, with HOWTO Move a Dungeon Master to Furious Anger being the first really lucidly written chapter of that textbook.

The drugs that treat Schizophrenia can cause horrible side effects. I have experienced many of those same side effects over the years.

Tardive Dyskenesia can put you in a wheelchair. Risperdal gave me a mild but very obvious case. I continue to take it anyway, while my Psychiatrist took up watching me like a hawk as he carefully adjusted my dose up and down so I never had to take more than I absolutely required.

The case of Dystonia I got a little over a year ago leads me to bend my right foot to the right. I can relax it, but only when I apply continuous mental effort to doing so.

Eventually I asked Dr. G. if he could look into how I might avoid breaking my own ankle. He continued to prescribe Zyprexa, but also Cogentin. No more explanation required. Cogentin is just a bit more effective, but the over the counter antihistamine Benadryl works nearly as well should I run out in the middle of the night.

The whole time I was in Nova Scotia, I visited the Emergency Room on a regular basis because a phenomenon known as Brain Plasticity had made the Risperdal which was once very effective for me, almost completely usefuless.

I was floridly delusional when I was admitted to Dominical in Soquel in April 1994. All I required to be discharged four days later was two milligrams of Zyprexa.

In December 2003, I knew that I was but days away from making Bonita a widow: three, maybe four more days and The Thought Police wouldn't arrest me, but I would finally grow weary of my life on the run and turn myself in.

I turned up at the Emergency Room at the advice of the Mental Health Center receptionist. I asked the Good Doctor there if he could look into the question of how I might avoid slaying one of Truro's finest with his own service pistol.

"Glad you asked," he smiled. "But it's after hours. You're going to need to wait a while."

I smiled. "I know all about Emergency Rooms. I didn't set foot in this place until I figured out which book to bring with me."

How to Want What You Have by Cognitive Psychotherapist Timothy Miller. It's not in print anymore but not at all hard to find used. Don't let the Sun set until you've ordered your copy from Alibris.

Eventually an incredibly hot young blonde Russian Psychiatry resident from the teaching hospital in Halifax turned up. She wore a tiny red cocktail dress and black fishnet stockings.

The instant she introduced herself with a thick Slavic accent as Marina Sokolenko, I charmed the socks right off her... well, black fishnet stockings anyway... by speaking just a few words of completely unaccented Russian.

Had I ever done well at my Russian studies at Tech, Bonita would never have found out about the wild sexual abandon that would have taken place over our discussion of my medicine adjustment.

My trouble with foreign languages is that I have a very hard time memorizing arbitrary facts that I cannot derive from myself from first principles. That's why I'm quite good at Physics and Mathematics, knew that I would do well to give up my first love of Chemistry, and have never found Biology to be anything better than completely impenetrable.

But if I know a foreign word at all, I can always spell, pronounce and understand it with complete precision.

About three weeks ago I began to develop a facile and transparently easy way to learn Spanish. But its important to learn to speak and understand it long before I ever attempt to learn to read or write it.

"Ola Amigo! Mi nombre Miguel. No habla Español."

"Inglise no! Via Español!"

I am starting with learning the simplest nouns and their genders. For the most part I point at some object readily at hand then:

"Inglise: 'Elbow'. Español? El, La, Los?"

The very instant I can figure out how to type upside-down exclamation points and question marks on my MacBook Pro's keyboard, I will know that one day I shall write a novel that puts Gabriel Garcia Máquez' classic Love in the Time of Cholera completely to shame.

I regard Hispanic woman as putting Slavic women completely to shame. Just you wait until I turn up on the beach at Rio de Janero then start chatting up all those scantily clad young hotties in completely unaccented Brazilian Portuguese.

One of my very best friends feels much the same way for much the same reason. Despite being an Ardently Dedicated Seventh Day Adventist United States Citizen, he managed to score himself an Ardently Dedicated Seventh Day Adventist Brazilian Wife!!!

The very instant she was able to sponsor his immigration to Brazil, he split the Northern Hemisphere's scene completely.

I'll be paying the two of them a visit sometime soon.

Bonita is not the least bit Hispanic, but she is one-quarter French. Her name is Spanish for "Pretty", but only in Latin America.

She once went on a school trip to Spain with her fellow students from the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design, where every Spaniard she introduced herself the entire time found himself suddenly howling with laughter.

"Here in Spain," they all said, "Bonita means gorgeous!"

Dr. Sokolenko raised my Risperdal dose to five milligrams, but I split it between one dose of two first thing in the morning, three as I went to bed.

One week after my first visit, Dr. Hugh Maguire rang me up at home at home.

"It's after hours. Go to Emerge. Tell them I'm expecting you, I'll come round."

It was that night that Bonita that I met the funniest mental health professional ever to have walked the face of the Planet Earth. "You don't have a serious bone in your body, do you?"

If you ever so much as set foot in Newfoundland you would know why: Bonita was an outport - that is, rural fishing village - Newfoundlander. Hugh was a Newfoundlander as well, but he is from the capital of St. John's.

The reason he rang me up at home and asked me to come in late at night before our first session is that my first appointment with him would lead me to cancel my visit to Bonita's home for Christmas.

He knew that three weeks in outport Newfoundland would be better than any kind of Risperdal. Two weeks after Bonita and I set foot in the province, she said to me, completely overcome with joy and affection:

"You are the man I married again!"

I never got anywhere with the guitar she gave me, but I know I will eventually. I spent those whole three weeks mercilessly and savagely tormenting every Newfoundlander I could lay my genocidal little hands on through no more means than offering to play them a little ditty.

On several of my remaining to the emergency room, Dr. M. supplied a few hits of Zyprexa. All I ever needed to set me straight.

On one visit, the Emergency Room doctor prescribed me enough Librium to send the Oakland Raiders completely into dreamland.

The very instant Hugh got wind of that man's cruelty, he rang me right up at home then said,

"If you're having a psychotherapeutic breakthough, taking medication for anxiety will lessen the benefit of it."

In the end, I only took two of the twenty-four capsules I brought home from the Pharmacy that day.

During our monthly sessions, he patiently, quietly and lucidly discussed whether I should go on Zyprexa on a regular basis, but warned me to carefully consider my decision:

Zyprexa causes awful weight gain. Surely you know gaining weight can give you diabetes. Get This:

Zyprexa can give you diabetes even if you manage to prevent it from ever leading you to gain weight.

Sometimes that diabetes will kill you. Most commonly because of the incurable open sores all over your feet, heart attack from time to time.

I will leave the lawsuits that have been going on since long before Dr. Maguire and I ever met as an exercise.

Schizophrenia often makes you homeless, sometimes makes you die by at your own hand, now and then leds you to murder a few people before you do so. But truly gifted Schizophrenics such as Doctor Kaczynski become the most gifted kinds of SERIAL KILLERS.

That's why Zyprexa is still licensed and the same company still makes it despite all those lawsuits. All those lawsuits have really done is made Zyprexa a medicine of almost, but not quite, last resort.

The real medicine of last resort is Clozapine. But expensive weekly blood tests are required to have any hope of dying of a ripe old age, rather than quite suddenly and in horrible pain of Acute Blood Granulocytosis.

They learned of this horrible risks during its drug trials then licensed it anyway: Clozapine was the very first Atypical Antipsychotic, and so the very first really effective treatment for Schizophrenia.

The only lawsuit I know of was when the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill sued New York State first to pay for free Clozapine for the Schizophrenic residents of New York, as well as their weekly blood tests.

NAMI won, I am happy to report. The State of New York though wasn't real happy about it.

Had the Zyprexa stopped working before a certain phenomenon known as "Wall of Text" completely cured my Bipolar Type Schizoaffective Disorder, I would have happily gone on Clozapine.

I asked for Zyprexa when I was taken by ambulance less than two miles to a downtown Vancouver, British Columbia Hospital's Psychiatric Inpatient Unit. My shrink needed no explanation whatsoever.

I keep it around because I know I will need it from time to time, but hardly actually take it anymore.

Once I'm sure that I won't really need my Zyprexa anymore, that Bottle of Mercy will find it puzzling over the question of why it found itself under seven miles of incredibly salty water.

The deepest point in the ocean you see is the Marianas Trench. To the South East of Japan if I understand correctly.

Dr. Maquire said to me one day that he did not know how, but he speculated that nothing more than regular Psychotherapy was all that Schizophrenia required to be cured.

Guess why I'm going to carefully spell out the link to Solving the Software Problem into his voice mail box right after I get back from breakfast.

Get This:

He was easily accepted to the Medical School at Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. Johns after obtaining his undergraduate in Literature.

Now I already told you he was the funniest man to have ever walked the face of the Planet Earth.

Shortly after obtaining his medical degree, the young Dr. and Mrs. Maguire were out for a drive around St. John's in their beat up old Volkswagen bug.

If you think I am a God because I am so insane but yet so brilliant, just wait until you read the following:

"I'd like to go back for my Literature Doctorate."

Completely overcome with Horror, Mrs. Maquire talked him out of it instantly.

She new that Hugh wouldn't joke about such a matter as his interest in Literature.

I began to really perfect my craft as a writer during my time in Truro. Hugh and I spent most of our sessions discussion no kind of mental illnesses, but my rough drafts of many of my upcoming pieces for K5's edit queue.

If Hugh regarded any of my pieces as in any way promising, we'd blow the whole session on it. He and I would both forget about any kind of medicine.

None of you believe me that I can make Schizophrenics stop hallucinating. All I require to get myself 5150ed is to make that claim to a mental health professional. All I require to obtain my release is to point out a few days later that I need to get a job.

I WALK AMONG YOU.

My methods have been repeatible since July 1985. I damn near crippled myself when I took up the question of how to make them explainable:

Wearing a cheap pair of sneakers, I walked five miles from downtown Berkeley to downtown Oakland. After taking the bus back to Berkeley, after allowing the pain in my blisters to subside, I did much the same thing that night in Downtown San Francisco.

I got the most incredible lap dance of my entire life by a stripper at the conclusion of the evening. Not only did I not blow my load all over the inside of my underwear, I not only failed to achieve orgasm, I didn't even try.

All I wanted was to enjoy this beautiful young woman's radiant femininity.

"I'm still waiting for my paycheck to show up," I quietly spoke into her ear at the conclusion of her Academy Award-Winning Performance. "How generous do I need to be to make mad passionate love to you?"

She smiled warmly. "We don't do that here."

"Some clubs do," I explained, "But torture by the Gestapo would fail to extract from me which ones."

I regard those ladies as performing a valuable public service to the community. They shouldn't have to work for tips. They should be paid generous salaries, have clean, well-lit tastefully appointed places of work with round-the-clock security guards, health insurance, paid vacations and stock options.

That's what Jesus h-Bar Christ's Whorehouse just outside Reno Nevada is going to be like once he is able to obtain funding from a V.C.

There is a certain club that does. That fact was made plainly transparent to me the instant I so much as set foot in the place.

Fortunately I knew to hit the ATM before I did so and so was able to leave my date later that night completely overcome with joy through nothing other than to thank her for her kindness and to point out that she was a good soul.

Each lady was incredibly beautiful and sexy in her own special way.

Before our date commenced, I explained that this one had won Jesus h-Bar Christ's lottery that night because her dance routine made it plainly apparent that she takes a great deal of pride in her work.

Last night I dropped by 7-11 for a cold can of Starbucks coffee. I'm heavily into that kind but don't drink it a whole lot because it's shot so full of Ginseng as to put Red Bull completely to shame.

Do Not Allow The Sun To Set Until You Have Sipped Your First.

You will require no explanation once you do so.

"Any chance you could show us a little love on your way out?" said one of the gentleman waiting by the door as I entered.

I smiled. "Be right back."

I returned then set my Starbucks on the lid of the garbage can. "This is mine, don't touch it."

"I apologize, I only brought three. I'll be right back for yours in just a moment."

After passing out three Dove Milk Chocolate Bars, I sternly said, "Don't leave this in the Sun. It will spoil instantly!" then passed out three half-gallon jugs of whole milk.

I returned a short time later with one more Dove Bar and one more jug of milk.

"You're about to get elected President the same way Barack Obama did and for the same reason. You are charming, witty and you are a smart dresser."

He was wearing a proper hat and the jacket - quite clean and in quite good condition - from a proper business suit. He required no more explanation.

As I left another shopper was about to enter the store. "How about paying a Mariachi band to play while you shop?"

"I'll pass," he angrily replied.

Your loss, I thought to myself. I hope to compose Symphonies someday, and am quite certain I will someday, but even so:

Every wandering minstrel in Latin America will easily put every one of those Symphonies completely to shame.

On my way to the Medical Board in Sacremeno, some poor fucker was standing in the middle of an intersection bearing a hand-lettered carbooard sign.

"Hey bro," I casually called out, "I got something for you."

I hit the ATM at in the Sheraton's lobby just before I checked out. I attempted to withdraw three hundred, but it only allowed me two.

I grabbed every bill remaining in my wallet after having bought a couple coffees and a small bite to eat that day.

I held the whole wad up before his dumbstruck face.

"I am trusting you! No Drugs! No Liquor! No Cigarrettes!"

Then I handed him the lot of it.

"You just got me off the street!" he shouted, completely overcome with joy.

"I was once just like you!" I shouted, completely overcome with inconsolable grief.

"Pay it forward, Bro! Pay it forward!"

"There is no way I could ever hope to repay the folks who got me off the street!"

Some of you must live in Southern California. I want you to take a risky trip to downtown Los Angeles.

If you're male you would do well to wait a few days grow a little beard stubble.

If female, wait a good solid week before your short vacation. Don't even think of washing your hair, let alone doing it. It might not be a bad idea to dust it a little each day with fine, dry topsoil.

Now that you are properly groomed, grab some bus fare, don the very worst clothing available from a local thrift store, then set out for downtown L.A. around Sunset.

Return well into the brightness of the following morning.

You will meet some students from the California Institute of Technology in Pasedena.

Pasadena is not far at all from downtown L.A. There's this great Russian place just to the East of downtown called Gorky's. I'm heavily into Russian food for the same reason as I am heavily into Hispanic women. Sometimes I would ride my bicycle all the way from Caltech to Gorky's just to have lunch.

Should you introduce yourself to one of my colleagues, they will be happy to discuss the most advanced kinds of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics or Engineering with you.

Had you met me, I would have been one of downtown Los Angeles's most gifted Astronomy faculty members.

From time to time, they will sadly inform you that, but they lifted a finger, America would lose the War on Terror.

I can say much the same thing. Look over here. Do you see me smiling?

Do you see me wiggling my finger?

Now you now why one would do well not to trifle with a Wizard, because every Caltech student, in his own special way, can put many tenured University professors completely to shame. I have been doing so myself since the mid-1980s.

The guy who won the Nobel Physics Prize for discovering antimatter did so when he was just a graduate student using nothing other than an electromagnet and a piece of photographic film.

Upon my graduation with Honors in mid-November 1984, I was warmly received into the embrace of Caltech's most eclusive and most exalted Alumni Association.

Only a few Ghosts are around the Caltech campus in Pasadena at any given time.

One lived in the steam tunnels that ran under the campus my entire time at the Institute.

Another tended the flower beds that decorated the Campus. If you think Richard Feynman was gifted, the way this gentlemen knew how to talk to flowers put Dick's ability to chat directly with God completely to shame.

He wrote the most incredible poetry by hand, with pencil, on random scraps of paper.

He was completely overcome with joy when I suggested he use the student timesharing VAX to typeset it with troff instead. That way, he could sell his work on the street for fifty cents per poem.

I was presented with my own copy of one of his poems the very next day. Only the flag that draped my father's coffin is a more cherished possession.

He was once one of the Institute's most promising students, having been accepted to study Physics after achieving a perfect score of 1600 on the Scholastic Aptitude Test.

I know enough about Physics, and I know enough about Caltech Students, and I know enough about the Institute to know:

Had this man ever become a tenured professor, not only would he never have won the Nobel Prize.

NO!

He would have spattered his brains all over the wall.

I would not be at all surprised to learn if he spattered the brains of several others before he spattered his own.

I Have Returned.

I Walk Among You.

I Once Suffered For You, But Now Nothing Feels Me With More Joy Than For Some Homeless Guy To Ask Me For Some Spare Change.

By Doing So, I Will Give Him A Good Bed For The Night, Some Comfort Food, A Shave, A Haircut And Some Brand New Clothes.

Everywhere I Go These Days I Heal People, Not By Touching Them, But Merely By Chatting With Them For A Few Minutes.

Everyone I Meet Regards Me As The Second Coming Of Jesus Of Nazarus.

My Name Is Not Iesu, But Michael.

I Once Was Iesu, But Now I Am Only His Ghost.

The War That Will End Time Has Not Begun.

The End Of Eternal War Began To Wind Down One Passionate Night In The Spring Of 1963.

Ten Years Hence The Last Battle Will Take Place.

Both Sides Will Readily Agree To Concede Immediately.

No More War Will Ever Occur.

The Day Will Come When Pops Will Finally Decide It Is Time For Us All To Blow Our Spinning Little Blue-Green Taco Stand.

But Long Before The Close Of Business, Humanity Will Be Spread Throughout The Entire Galaxy. A Few Outposts Will Be Found In Andromeda As Well.

I Regard White Wine As A Crime Against Humanity.

Wine Is Not Permitted To Touch My Lips Unless It Is Red.

I Am Hungry.

After I Find A Hungry Man Or A Hungry Woman, We Shall Dine At A Fine Restaurant.

I Walk Among You.

I Was Once Iesus Nazarenus, Rex Iudaeorum

But Now Am I Am Michael David Crawford.

I Am A Writer, A Musician, A Composer, A Software Engineer, An Astronomer, An Optician, And A High-Energy Particle Physicist.

Not Only Am I No Longer King Of The Jews But Once I Give Away All My Money, I Shall Become Homeless.

That Is The Right Way To Live, You See.

It Has Been Lonely For So Many Years. So Very, Very Lonely.

It Has Been Many Years, You See, Since I Resigned From The California Institute Of Technology Ghost Association.

Worst Mistake Of My Entire Existence, Let Me Tell You.

Name Yer Poison. I'll Slash My Wrists If I Have To.

Re:eat my shorts slashdot !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32480876)

Cool story, bro!

Missed Day One? They're up... (5, Informative)

Xveers (1003463) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476050)

Day one's battles have already been posted on Youtube at http://www.youtube.com/user/CCPGAMES#g/c/29BA4E251AA2A6F8 [youtube.com] , in 720p HD for your viewing pleasure.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476434)

Did they got rid of wobbling? I'm somehow reluctant to turn those videos on otherwise.

Really, this was one thing destroying the immersion for me, when I watched EVE videos the last time - really nice views generally, but eventually some massive object showing up that inevitably wobbles when hit, when it couldn't possibly wobble like that. If you want to, have in the close-up view a visible blastwave going through the structure (could be merely approximate), jets of plasma and debris through ports of presumably damaged sections, the structure fragmenting into parts which float away. But-please-no-wobbling.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477534)

If you want to, have in the close-up view a visible blastwave going through the structure (could be merely approximate), jets of plasma and debris through ports of presumably damaged sections, the structure fragmenting into parts which float away. But-please-no-wobbling.

This is why you don't ask gamers for programming advice. They come up with things like "Destructible terrain!" and "Accurately exploding ships!"

If you created a procedural demo with the above scenario, you would be worshiped.

//Not an EVE player.
//IIRC EVE still doesn't even have shields that light up a la Freelancer and Nexus.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477768)

It can start small, just approximations. Say, an underlying gouraud shaded model, "visible" (normally quite dark) through transparent parts (of main textures) showing some "net" of structural borders and/or ports; when under heavy attack - lighting up a bit (gouraud...PS1 was doing it easily) in one of few predetermined fashions / sequences, representing waves of destruction expanding throughout the structure. Coupled with dozen particles spewing out of some predetermined locations; quickly lighting down and with damn easy movement ("go straight with constant speed"). The superstructure being really a few parts (predetermined...so what? Such massive objects would break down always in similar ways anyway) would not add many polygons, the movement is again easy and...large ships don't explode all that often (and when they do, attackers might just as well stop shooting, preserving gfx resources)

I have a hard time believing its not firmly in the area of technical possibilities available for some time. But...wobble?! Whose idea was that? Homeworld was better - a game from 12 years ago, I believe; sure, the effects generally were comparably arbitrary, but at least there was no wobble!

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32478188)

I am not a game programmer by any means. But while I can see componentized ship decay being a logical choice for SP or small MP games, it probably presents more issues for an MMO. For one thing, it requires a massive revision of all current models and textures. Secondly, when a ship explodes, suddenly you now have to run physics calculations for dozens of separately-moving entities. Thirdly, the network impact of destruction alone could be quite drastic where ships are exploding left and right. If it has to run non-client-side hit tests & reaction on each bullet impact, this could make 600-man battles now a maximum of 60-man battles.

And as a last point, I think people might complain more about lego-like ship destruction. Unless there are literally two-dozen-plus parts that randomly separate, the problem is that this effect is too predictable, and brings to mind bad sfx of the 80s-sci-fi-movie kind.

(I don't even know what you mean by 'wobble,' having not watched an EVE video before. I assume it is the ship's unusual full-body reaction to any minor force.)

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479162)

You can turn the camera shake off.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479248)

I was thinking more about the "shake" of gargantuan vessels...

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (1)

nicolastheadept (930317) | more than 4 years ago | (#32482458)

Go look in settings for ship shake iirc

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (4, Interesting)

DeadDecoy (877617) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477262)

It's funny watching the videos, because they look cinematic enough to be a news event but they're treated as a sports event.
I'm half expecting the narration to be in a somber, journalistic tone:
...and the alliance initiated hostilities, killing 10,000 civilians.
Then the sports commentator tone comes in:
...it looks like the scimitar ripped right through that battleships hull. The alliance is doing good damage to those ships. But they'll want to step up their game if they want more kill points.
It's kinda surreal in a weird way.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (1)

19thNervousBreakdown (768619) | more than 4 years ago | (#32478126)

It's especially funny when you consider that according to their canon, each one of those ships is crewed by hundreds of people.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (2, Insightful)

vivian (156520) | more than 4 years ago | (#32478922)

One thing that I find extremely irritating is how much TV time is spent televising sports - half the news programs here are about sports, there are many hours of TV time dedicated to sorts, not to mention whole free to air sports channels.
After discussing this sad fact with my girlfriend just this weekend, we came to the conclusion that the reason why there is so much sport on TV versus say, coverage of computer games etc, is that of course sports events offer advertising agencies huge amounts of revenue, with the many ad placement opportunities that exist.

I have often wondered why it is that people who dedicate their lives to playing an absolutely meaningless pass-time, such as playing cricket, soccer or rugby, can become such national heroes, whearas there is no equivalent adulation for someone who participates in an equally meaingless game, such as say, striving to become the top ranked WoW arena combatant.

If there were actual in - game advertisements or places for product endorsement in computer games, do you think there would actually be more coverage, or does the fundamental difference in the games preclude this? Ie. televised sports have mostly been set up for the viewers, whereas computer games are mostly set up for the players.

Re:Missed Day One? They're up... (2, Insightful)

DeadDecoy (877617) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479346)

I think it's more of a cultural artifact than a reflection of the current state of our society. If look back some 20-30 years, internet was still in its infancy and sports were the only form of entertainment. The people who manage tv and cable networks probably came from that era, and therefore don't realize the strong impact video games have, or for that matter, a tv series with a decent story line. Eventually, they'll pass the reins on to a younger generation who view video games as a spectator sport. This is kind of starting already with Spike TV and Gametrailers.
That being said, I stopped watching TV because they only show sports or some cheap reality tv drama. It's funny because the network's crappy content is probably creating a self-feedback loop. People who watch TV watch sports, while others who watch anything else have moved on. Clearly, this means that they should air more sports because it captures the most attention of their existing customers.

Agony vs HYDRA (1)

mdritchi (612425) | more than 4 years ago | (#32478100)

If you want to understand this game... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxBnf-wk6tU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fccpgames%23p%2Fc%2F29BA4E251AA2A6F8%2F1%2FAxBnf-wk6tU&feature=player_profilepage/ [youtube.com] this is the match to watch (second match from day 1). I know more then most about what happened and even I am going WTF!

and a happy D-DAY to you to (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476086)

this day in 1944 we saved a continent !! but still, the french survive !! and half of it is on the dole !! from their oppressors !!

"Um, yeah, and uh, you know, like I said before.." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476172)

They should find some less mentally retarded sounding announcers. I enjoy EVE but I couldn't watch listen to more than a couple of battles with Soundwave only actually saying useful things 10% of the time he's talking.

Why don't more companies post video content? (2, Interesting)

gravos (912628) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476192)

I'm surprised more game companies aren't taking advantage of streaming and even static online video. If you look around youtube, most of the game videos are "Let's Play's" or other fan material, not official content. Maybe they don't think it's worth the effort.

Re:Why don't more companies post video content? (1)

icegreentea (974342) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476570)

For many games, the "official" content has nothing to do with the best or flashiest plays. Starcraft comes to mind. Blizzard has nothing to do with nearly all high level play. Hell, all high level play specifically by passes Bnet ladder. The closest Blizzard comes to 'claiming' any high level play is the yearly Blizzcon tournament. Which is something that very few game companies have the size and clout to pull off.

Really, the thing is lack of centralization. Aside from MMORPGs, game companies won't be able to directly see what the players are doing. They would have to rely on player submissions, which really boils down to youtube again. They could sponsor/host events more often (which I think is a great idea), but once again, there are few companies that have that kind of rapport with their communities for them to be taken seriously. And being taken seriously is pretty much key for 'good' players to show up and show off 'awesome' plays.

Finally, just doing that is a lot of work. It really is. It really is easier for most companies to let their fans upload their killtages and epic matches on youtube by themselves, and maybe comment on them every so often. I mean, that's what Bungie did with Halo. They gave the community the tools, and the community (and MLG) took care of the rest. All Frankie had to do was link to random videos every so often in weekly updates.

Re:Why don't more companies post video content? (1)

BertieBaggio (944287) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477892)

I'm surprised more game companies aren't taking advantage of streaming and even static online video. If you look around youtube, most of the game videos are "Let's Play's" or other fan material, not official content. Maybe they don't think it's worth the effort.

Check out the Just Cause 2 "Anatomy of a Stunt" videos:

#1 of the series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc38RBNz0xI [youtube.com]

Just Cause 2 user channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/OfficialJustCause2 [youtube.com]

Re:Why don't more companies post video content? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32478918)

Generating, managing, and publishing content that nobody but your own customers view... Is not a smart business move.

You've already got their money. Theres none to be made doing this.

Re:Why don't more companies post video content? (2, Insightful)

Majik Sheff (930627) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479218)

Except that these videos become a useful recruiting tool. Both for potential customers that happen to stumble into the videos, and also for existing customers who want to show their friends without having to be at their own machines. What's easier? "Hey, I found this great game! Download a gig of stuff, sign up for a trial account, log in, find me, and I'll show you around.." or "Hey, I found this great game! Check out this video of actual game play! *link to youtube*"

If you haven't already gathered, Eve players are among the most rabid of all fans. It's a game that you either instantly understand and 'get' or a game that you become bored with quickly and move on.

Re:Why don't more companies post video content? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32480556)

I'm more surprised nobody said it yet, so here I go ...Leeeeeerrrrrrooooooyyyyyyyyyyy Jenkins!

Good to see what EVE is like (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476200)

I'm glad to see this. I've been playing EVE lately, but I just can't get into it. The things that make EVE stand out to me are the single player-controlled universe and the lack of XP grinding. But (and I'm not trying to troll, here) I find the user interface to be excruciatingly bad, and most of the time I am wondering what I should be doing. You could argue that a user interface and having a supply of fun stuff to do are two cardinal properties of a good game. It seems EVE is calibrated for players that have been at it for a long time. But for a new player, I'm really frustrated.

EVE players hate it when people compare their game to WoW, but I think there's a lot to learn from other massives like that. When you get a fresh WoW account you're off to the woods killing Kobolds or whatever right away, and maybe it is not totally challenging, but there's always something to do, somewhere to go, and pretty things to look at. But in EVE the first few *days* are mostly doing boring agent missions where you don't really even do anything (at least in WoW you have to click on the damned Kobold) except fly around and learn to use the maddeningly bad UI. For good chunks of time, I set it on autopilot to do some 6-jump mission, go clean the kitchen or play with the dog, and come back in 20 minutes and I might be at the destination, where I will then need to set autopilot to go back to where I came from once I've dropped off the shipment.

But it is interesting to see this tourney going on, because the PvP really does look fun and full of lots of aspects: advance planning, massive social coordination, and straight up pvp videogame carnage.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1, Interesting)

lordmatrix (1439871) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476382)

I agree with you. EVE is a dull, boring game with a terrible UI. The only thing that makes it enjoyable is PvP if you're in a good corporation/alliance. It's not rewarding over short term. It's lots and lots of grinding for money so you can experience a battle for a few minutes and then you're back to 10h of grinding. It's hard to find a fair player, most of them will try to scam you in any way possible. Honorable players are rare. It's next to impossible to a fair fight. There are definitely great moments in game, but the amount of negativity is overwhelming and that is the reason so many people leave after trial runs out. Even those who have full accounts take breaks and often complain of boredom. It has a very low ratio of fun/"time invested".

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (3, Interesting)

hldn (1085833) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476550)

It's lots and lots of grinding for money so you can experience a battle for a few minutes and then you're back to 10h of grinding. It's hard to find a fair player, most of them will try to scam you in any way possible. Honorable players are rare. It's next to impossible to [find] a fair fight. There are definitely great moments in game, but the amount of negativity is overwhelming and that is the reason so many people leave after trial runs out. Even those who have full accounts take breaks and often complain of boredom. It has a very low ratio of fun/"time invested".

sounds strikingly similar to my life.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

kiljoy001 (809756) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476634)

I've played EVE for a while, and my major gripes is for the population of players, the game universe is too big. In addition to that there is no real way to interact with people beyond joining a corp/alliance that is active and political. A large portion of the low sec area are not even used, the resources are not valuable, and you risk being blown up by very experienced pvp players. Even learning to pvp is a difficult thing - there are so many things that you have to learn and know most of them not conveniently placed in the ui somewhere. Most people give up well before they are able to do anything of significance, and I don't blame them. It's a hard game to play and feed back reward is low.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

infinitevalence (1491211) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476664)

TBH you may want to check it out again, they just added the Eve Gate something like facebook (spacebook) for pilots and corps. I dont find it very useful but lots of other people like it.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

lordmatrix (1439871) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476894)

From what I've seen EVE Gate is only a contact list and private message system accessible over the web. It has no real time chat, groups or anything else that would really help.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (2, Insightful)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476990)

Lowsec is a problem. Sec hits + sentry mechanics + danger + low rewards compared to 0.0/wormholes = low population. There's no good reason to go there and it's very risky.
Learning to PVP isn't that hard. EVE University and Agony Empire both offer classes to anyone who can pay the (very small) fee. The UI should be easier, but it isn't by any means impossible.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32479416)

Learning to PVP isn't that hard. EVE University and Agony Empire both offer classes to anyone who can pay the (very small) fee. The UI should be easier, but it isn't by any means impossible.

EVE University won't cost you a single ISK and can get you started leaning about PvP among other things like mining, missioning, scanning, ship fitting and so on. They're really very helpful for the new player.

Agony on the other hand does charge for PvP instruction but they are reputed to be very good. From what I know though, their PvP classes are not intended for the totally new player but are more advanced training oriented towards someone who has an understanding of basic PvP.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 4 years ago | (#32480656)

I've done the Agony classes, and helped with the instruction (not in AGONY, just friendly and experienced). Their PVP-BASIC class is very basic, though you should know your way around the UI (Where the orbit, approach, warp, etc buttons are, how to fit a ship, etc).

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (4, Informative)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#32478192)

It's lots and lots of grinding for money so you can experience a battle for a few minutes and then you're back to 10h of grinding.

Then you're doing at wrong. When your character is still young and you're still inexperienced you should be flying cheap crap. Especially if you join a corp(like mine) that specializes in pvp you can still make a contribution even in a simple rifter with a total cost of less than 1 million, and any corpmate can have a 100 of those for you in 2 mouse clicks.

One mistake a lot of EVE players make is to assume that bigger is better. Each and every ship in the game fills a particular niche, and the tournament shows this off quite well.

Still, in my line of work we sit on gates for hours waiting for someone we don't know is actually at his computer to undock his ship. I guess you could call that grinding as well ;-)

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

RichiH (749257) | more than 4 years ago | (#32483198)

> Still, in my line of work we sit on gates for hours waiting for someone we don't know is actually at his computer to undock his ship. I guess you could call that grinding as well ;-)

As someone who does not play EVE, I don't even know if you mean real work or EVE stuff.

> People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.

Pro tip: Delete your sig.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 4 years ago | (#32483802)

Still, in my line of work we sit on gates for hours waiting for someone we don't know is actually at his computer to undock his ship. I guess you could call that grinding as well ;-)

IRL, I used to fly hang gliders. The problem was the "hang waiting" where you sat on a cliff and stared at the sky for hours, waiting for the wind to turn. It was much like playing Eve: sitting at a gate waiting, like you say. The first few times it was exciting - a real battle, real money at stake. Then... time to go to bed. It's 3am and I just wasted my evening for nothing.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476710)

Don't run highsec missions unless you like doing them. Get into a corp asap. Personally I'm loving living in wormholes.

Perhaps check out Red vs Blue, Eve Uni or Faction Warfare for fights asap in cheap fun ships.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477234)

I had the same experience. I have actually tried it a few times over the years and I always quit within a week. The idea seems good but the implementation sucks.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

V for Vendetta (1204898) | more than 4 years ago | (#32482242)

I'm glad to see this. I've been playing EVE lately, but I just can't get into it. [...] When you get a fresh WoW account you're off to the woods killing Kobolds or whatever right away, and maybe it is not totally challenging, but there's always something to do, somewhere to go, and pretty things to look at. But in EVE the first few *days* are mostly doing boring agent missions where you don't really even do anything (at least in WoW you have to click on the damned Kobold) except fly around and learn to use the maddeningly bad UI.

WoW caters to the "theme park players", whereas EVE is for the "sandbox players". You don't need to do a single mission ever in EVE, if you don't like it. EVE is what you make of it. And the more you're willing to put into the game the more you get out of it. And I'm not talking about time or money, but about thought. I can fully understand that people don't like that, but prefer to be "guided" by the game for their casual MMO evening. There's nothing bad/wrong about that.

I've never played WoW (or any other MMO besides EVE), but I personally don't like all the WoW bashing going on in EVE. Comparing these two games can't work, because they based and two completely different philosophies.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

AP31R0N (723649) | more than 4 years ago | (#32482942)

Check out PlanetSide:

Pure PvP FPS
133 vs. 133 vs. 133 players per continent. There are several continents.
No grinding, you fight for something and level up as a result.
No economy, trading or currency (thus no gold farmers, no twinking, no gold selling, no economy to corrupt)
Cert systems means no noobstomping and shallow power curve (my 6 year character can't just one click kill your 1 day character)
Huge maps, but not huge in the same sense as EVE. You can get from anywhere to anywhere else in a few minutes.
Requires skill, tactics, teamwork and strategy to win.

Re:Good to see what EVE is like (1)

harl (84412) | more than 4 years ago | (#32486544)

The UI is horribly bad. This is universally accepted by the player base. When in doubt right click.

erm.. (5, Funny)

sqldr (838964) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476234)

"So find a drink, whip up some snacks, watch the shiny explosions, and listen to the soothing words of player experts as they walk you through the action!"

no.

Re:erm.. (3, Insightful)

lisany (700361) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476338)

I'm sure those who would rather not partake will find that the WoW servers are still up.

Re:erm.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476424)

You mean I actually have to play the game? No, thanks. The only thing better than playing a MMORPG like Eve is watching someone else play it. Better yet, anyone have a live stream of themselves watching the live stream? Don't want to get too close to the action my heart may explode LOL!

Re:erm.. (3, Informative)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476406)

Sadly the player "experts" are rather moronic this year. "Oh, look, that dramiel is trying not to die. Let's talk about nothing instead of analyzing the match." "He must be a master of orbiting." etc, etc.

Re:erm.. (1)

ImNotAtWork (1375933) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476896)

Agreed last years commentators really knew a lot about the mechanics of the game and were able to speak intelligently about the tactics used. Yesterday one guy basically said I just fit the basic modules and go with it (paraphrased). They also had one of the most respected mercenary/pirate corporations represented, 'Veto'.

Re:erm.. (1)

ImNotAtWork (1375933) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476910)

Veto was represented last year that is.

Re:erm.. (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476946)

Yeah. Now they have the head of Goonswarm. Great choice~

Re:erm.. (1)

infinitevalence (1491211) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476954)

Verone (CEO of Veto) is doing commentary again this year.

Re:erm.. (1)

Sqweegee (968985) | more than 4 years ago | (#32482762)

They at least need to be tested to see if they know how to pronounce the ship model names... no, you don't pronounce the 'C' in Scimitar!

Re:erm.. (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 4 years ago | (#32485744)

True, though they got Gila right (the G is an H sound.) CCP needs to tape some fights between devs or something and have the commentator candidates comment it live during the interview.

Re:erm.. (4, Funny)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476420)

If you don't play the game, the commentary is hilariously incomprehensible. If your drink is alcoholic, or your snack is pot brownies, that alone is pretty entertaining. It's also done over some sub-Skype crappy VOIP system.

Of course the images are equally incomprehensible.

Re:erm.. (1)

Arimus (198136) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477372)

And the commentary is even more incomprehensible if you do play the game... wtf these player 'experts' came from is beyond me and anyone I know in-game...

The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476366)

EVE online has many critics with very valid points, but never in my life have I had a PvP experience like in EVE. I've been gaming for over 20 years and never before EVE had I had a genuine fight-or-flight adrenaline rush. The terror of combat and the thrill of victory are unmatched outside actual combat. I've since quit the game, but I always look forward to watching the 10 man tournaments.

For those of you unfamiliar with the epic scale combat can reach, I suggest you look at the EVE Dominion trailer [youtube.com] . It's a moderately accurate depiction of an alliance battle, or at least what it would be if the servers didn't get borked every time 100 ships jump into a system (one reason for quitting).

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (1)

Fumus (1258966) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476872)

CCP are doing their best to prevent the lag or failures of nodes when big battles happen. For one, you can send them a message ingame ahead of time saying "In system XYZ we will be attacking the other faction tomorrow." and CCP then dedicate a much stronger server for that time to this system. Then you can have battles of 500+ ships with moderate success. For spontaneous events I believe battles of under 200 do not cause much problems anymore.(apart from some lag)

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (2, Insightful)

Secshunayt (976978) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477044)

Before last winter's patch, spontaneous 600-800 man battles were quite playable, and 1200 was doable with a reinforced node. However, something went terribly wrong with that expansion, and we now have crippling lag with even 600 on a reinforced node. The issue is causing a lot of upset amongst the game's space-holding contingency (who happen to provide the majority of advertising for CCP). It's an issue that CCP needs to fix soon, or they face a mass exodus of their veteran players.

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (1)

Fumus (1258966) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477896)

And before before that spontaneous battles of 100 players were unplayable. Yes, it is a step back, but it's not like over two hundred people fighting at once is something to be sneezed at. Cut CCP some slack or just don't play the game if it's so bad. I'm sure dozens of new players will happily fill in the void your corp leaves after you go away in protest.

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477930)

Exodus to where? In what game is 600 player battles even close to practical other then perhaps evony.

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32482654)

If you'd been on Sisi during the many mass testings they've had you would know that they are working on lag and they are making HUGE improvements to it. Instead you choose to go crying like a little girl and pretending like they're not doing anything about it. Go whine somewhere else kthxbye.

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477302)

CCP are doing their best to prevent the lag or failures of nodes when big battles happen.

I'd like to quote Despair Inc here: "Failure: when your best just isn't good enough".

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (1)

Martin Spamer (244245) | more than 4 years ago | (#32478640)

I think this video gives a better flavour of EVE Online: The Butterfly Effect [youtube.com]

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32478818)

Yes, that one is better at describing the game overall. Parent's link is better for the combat aspect specifically.

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (1)

ir (104) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479986)

Yes, if you enjoy griefers and gangrape, Eve-online is where it is at!
Also you will have to have several computers running simultaneously under your desk to be competitive.

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (1)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 4 years ago | (#32484148)

If you think it's fun slash nailbiting to watch, try participating!

(Dystopia Alliance)

Re:The most exciting PvP experience I've ever had (1)

Keerok (870468) | more than 4 years ago | (#32499232)

I've been playing a game called Armada Online (think Armada from the Dreamcast) for the better part of 6 months. Just a top down space MMO space game, Free ( as in beer) and the game is full of suprises. It has some nice features, decent customizability, great ( IMHO) PVP (team and solo) some entertaining PVE and Crafting ( which is both rewarding and oooh so disappointing). The PVP ( once you've gotten a decent understanding of the game/ship abilities) is quite intense, there is quite a bit of team work needed, tactical decisions as well as over all strategy required. It takes a few weeks to really get an appreciation for the game, but worth it in my opinion. Oh, newbs are welcome, noobs are swarmed :) Open areas include: Haven ( pve) Delta 3 (Pve) Malestrom( PVE+PVP) Nexus ( PVP) The Burn(PVE) Netural Zone( PVP)

woot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32476752)

This is so cool, I'm watching the tourney right now as I stroll through my news feeds.
check it out:
http://www.eveonline.com/events/alliances/tournament/t8/viewerHD.asp

SLEEEEEP (1)

Riddler Sensei (979333) | more than 4 years ago | (#32476994)

My roommate just recently began playing Eve again and, naturally, tried to get me to buy into the game. However, every time I see clips or streams of the game I...I just...I....*SNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE*

Eve combat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477014)

I haven't played Eve online, but from what I understand you don't actually "fly" your ship in combat. It isn't like a Wing Commander game, but instead you pick an enemy and your ship auto flies and your weapons auto track etc. Is this a correct description?

Where is the skill in this? And why would anyone want to watch a video of ships battling it out on auto pilot? To me, the game would be a lot more interesting if you directly controlled your ship and had to dog fight like in Wing Commander or Tie Fighter etc.

Re:Eve combat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477076)

The truth is somewhere in between autopilot and real joystick flying. You tell your ship where to go (i.e. "at that ship", or "orbit that ship at this range") and how fast, and who to shoot at. The weapons do aim automatically. I had the same concerns you do, but when I played I found combat quite compelling. The skill isn't so much in piloting as in larger scale strategy and preparation. There are like 200 different types of ship, and each can be equipped trillions of different ways, so the strategy is in properly equipping your fleet and keeping the ranges between the various types of ships what you want for maximum effect. In that way combat is more like a RTS like Starcraft than a flying game like Tie Fighter, except you are controlling just a single unit.

Re:Eve combat (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477772)

In EVE, you aren't flying fighters, you are flying frigates, cruisers, battleships, and the like. You want EVE game to behave as though you were piloting a TIE Fighter when in actuality you are "piloting" the equivalent of Star Destroyers.

Re:Eve combat (0)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479984)

To dumb it down it's basically world of warcraft but in space. What I mean by that is you're constantly button mashing while you watch your model ship circle around your target shooting at something. When eve players talk about "skill" they're talking about it in the same sense as WoW players do, knowing when to mash the right buttons and when to run away.

If you go in thinking this is a game of flying or shooting skill similar to elite prepare to be disappointed.

Re:Eve combat (1)

47Ronin (39566) | more than 4 years ago | (#32481204)

To dumb it down it's basically world of warcraft but in space. What I mean by that is you're constantly button mashing while you watch your model ship circle around your target shooting at something. When eve players talk about "skill" they're talking about it in the same sense as WoW players do...

Hardly. In Eve you'll notice a lot of combat involves ships circling around each other in orbits whereas in WOW tournaments the arenas are close combat and involve line-of-sight tactics. Example
SK Gaming vs TSG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFo2yObhOS0 [youtube.com] (HD video)

Re:Eve combat (5, Informative)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#32481578)

What I mean by that is you're constantly button mashing while you watch your model ship circle around your target shooting at something. When eve players talk about "skill" they're talking about it in the same sense as WoW players do, knowing when to mash the right buttons and when to run away.

Actually, no. When those of us who actually have it talk about skill we take things into account such as:

- Should I focus on trying to take him down asap or should I destroy some of his drones to reduce the amount of damage I'm taking myself?
- What distance between myself and the target is the most ideal? This varies from ship to ship(and there's well over a hundred different ships) and loadouts.
- Does he have any help coming in? Are any of the other people in the area interfering in the fight?
- What is my opponent trying to do? Fight, flee, stall, what's going on inside his head?

Add to that managing the supplies of the various kinds of ammunition, the status of your own ship etc...and then consider that this is just for a situation involving 1 ship on each side and now extrapolate that to 10 vs 10 where ships take on specialized roles.

Ow...and one of the skills in EVE is to prevent other people from running away...heck, it's probably the single most important one in PvP ;-)

Re:Eve combat (1)

EinarTh (143782) | more than 4 years ago | (#32484264)

Yeah, it's kinda like poker. It may look like it's just random cards and luck, but it isn't really.

Re:Eve combat (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32484554)

Not only that, you have to figure in tracking speeds of your turrets, overheat status, engaging drones (and if you are using ECM drones, the ol' "attack, withdraw" tactic that you constantly have to do), explosion velocities, getting webbed/ scrammed, etc. If you are a kiting ship, then keeping distance, minimizing/ maximizing transversal (depending on ship size), and manual flying are you're bread and butter. I convinced all my roomates to get back into EVE several times after deactivating their accounts when they see some of my PvP antics. ^_^

Not to mention attempting to actually *find* targets to attack at, which is a skill all in itself. Probing can be a fine art, with deepsafes to consider around the system. Directional scanning takes a long time to become competent at, much less skilled.

Fitting the ships out with modules is another world in itself. I'm sure all you WoW Min/ Max'ers will love extremely deep statistics that are there and the choices that you will have to make. Combine ship fittings with fleet composition and you have hundreds of hours of theory crafting ahead of you.

Think you can't interact with the universe? There are so many blogs about EVE, #TweetFleet, and the various forums (Scrapheap, Official EVE Forums, your Corp/ Alliance forums and killboard), it's retarded. The only thing that's holding you back in EVE is you.

Re:Eve combat (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#32492390)

Replace drones with mages, ship with character and you've basically described every other MMO such as Warcraft Battlegrounds or even guild wars.

I know a lot of Eve fanboys modded you up but what I said still stands. The kind of skill you're talking about isn't flying a ship, it's communicating, assessing a situation and applying tactics which you have to do in every game.

Re:Eve combat (1)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 4 years ago | (#32484026)

If you want a first-person dogfighting multi-player space game, my first suggestion would be (free)Allegiance (http://freeallegiance.org) which, while not actually an MMO (the world isn't persistent), is an incredibly strategic and tactical experience where an individual game or match can involve over a hundred players and last for hours. Dogfighting skill is definitely critical in Allegiance, and you're not generally fighting NPCs - aside from fixed defense turrets, all armed units are manned by at least one player, and no player directly controls more than one ship. It's a game just made for joystick jockeys, with the critical caveat that you *must* be able to work with your team - a solo ace who ignores the team commander is unlikely to have as much benefit toward victory as a rookie flying a free scoutship, dropping sensor probes and repairing his side's ships. For added awesome, Allegiance is now free and open source, the system requirements are quite modest (the graphics were probably good by the standards of 7 years ago, and the community is actually quite welcoming of rookies.

That said, while EVE combat is nothing like Elite (or Descent, or Allegiance, or...) it's also nothing like WoW. WoW is a game of timing and button-mashing, and while it's not totally devoid of tactics, the "correct" approach is generally fairly straightforward from what I've seen. EVE is all about tactics, except for the part that's about strategy. It's easy to lock onto an enemy and fire your guns; this takes a total of two clicks. With a third, you can set up a pre-determined orbit around your target. The catch is that your target isn't likely to let you have the orbit you want. Maybe they're faster, and try to keep transversal velocity so high that your guns can't track. Maybe they use long-range guns, and fly directly away from you, forcing you to absorb massive damage just to get in range. Maybe they use stasis webifiers and warp scramblers, crippling your ship's speed while they rip into you with close-range guns. Hell, maybe they're barely even armed, but mount heavy defenses and a warp interdiction field that keeps you from escaping until their fleet shows up surrounding you. Solo fights, wolfpacks, roaming gangs, gate- or station-camping, sniper fleets, and the various capital ships all have different strategies on when to use them and how to set them up, an different tactics of what to do once the enemy is engaged, depending on the objective and the strategies and tactics of the enemy. It is also the only game I know of where a single fight can last hours, involve over 1000 players, cost hundreds of ships and possibly the equivalent of $1000 in damage to each side... and have everybody involved enjoy the whole thing and look forward to the next one.

Eve sucks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477226)

Who the hell actually plays it anyway? I never hear anybody talking about it anywhere except for on Slashdot.

Re:Eve sucks! (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477296)

Roughly 50K players a day, every day.
Right now, the player count shows 56556 players, with an all-time record of 56817 players.
Stats here: http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility [eve-offline.net]

Re:Eve sucks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477504)

Talk to enough players and you'll find out a *lot* of them are running anywhere from 3-5 accounts simultaneously, so the player number is a bit distorted.

Of course, the same applies to any MMO.

Re:Eve sucks! (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477880)

Well I didn't say unique players :)

Re:Eve sucks! (2, Informative)

Vahokif (1292866) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477590)

So less than your average South Korean shovelware MMO then.

Re:Eve sucks! (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477912)

In one single shard? You'd wish.
Keep in mind this is a single-universe game, where everyone can interact with everyone else.

Re:Eve sucks! (2, Informative)

six11 (579) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477876)

From http://www.eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility [eve-offline.net]

Player statistics

Currently online: 55,783
Max today: 60,453
Current record: 60,453

It seems the tourney and this slashvertisement is doing them some good.

Not newsworthy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32477510)

They have streamed almost every single other tournament. How is this newsworthy? You could even pay for HD content before.

Re:Not newsworthy (1)

V for Vendetta (1204898) | more than 4 years ago | (#32482296)

Newsworthy, because this time they stream also the qualifier rounds live (again), whereas last tournament, they put those on YouTube the day later and only showed the final round live. Also newsworthy: (working) HD stream this time.

Actually... (1)

matunos (1587263) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477842)

If you change your user agent string accordingly, you'll see that most of the examples work fine in Chrome, just not the first (video doesn't play) or the VR one.

/wrongchan (1)

matunos (1587263) | more than 4 years ago | (#32477884)

Damn... I blame Slashdot RSS/Google Reader for that.

Are they for real? (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32478650)

"Playing" EVE is like watching a screensaver. Watching other people "play" EVE? My Futility Detector just went off the scale!

Can someone who plays explain some things (2, Interesting)

neonKow (1239288) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479244)

When you die, you lose your ship right? What on earth would compel a team to enter a tournament unless they were sure they were in range of the top 4 spots? How isolated are these tournaments? Can random people just fly in and start messing stuff up? Can you run away if you're about to be killed? What are the limitations of the team? What's to stop a really rich team from having a better loadout? Or a really big team? Can you have a large team of cheap ships? How many human players are involved in a battle. Don't you think for streaming purposes they should remove the red/blue overlay which makes a cool space battle look like just a bunch of squares standing around if you don't know the game?

Re:Can someone who plays explain some things (3, Informative)

Wog (58146) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479866)

When you die, you lose your ship right? What on earth would compel a team to enter a tournament unless they were sure they were in range of the top 4 spots?

Ships are not irreplaceable. If you play Eve, you WILL lose ships.

How isolated are these tournaments? Can random people just fly in and start messing stuff up? Can you run away if you're about to be killed?

The GMs move the teams to a specially isolated system where there is no way in and no way out. If you leave a certain radius from the center of the arena you are automatically destroyed. You can't return to the field after fleeing, so there's never anything to gain from running before doing as much damage as you can.

What are the limitations of the team? What's to stop a really rich team from having a better loadout? Or a really big team? Can you have a large team of cheap ships?

Different ships are assigned a point value, with a hard point limit imposed on each team. You can have a few expensive ships, quite a few cheaper ships, or some mix. It should be noted that both in terms of tournament points as well as in-game cost, the ability of a ship does not scale linearly with price. A ship that is 50% as expensive as another will probably be more than 50% as effective.

How many human players are involved in a battle.

Not sure what the hard limit on participants is, but I imagine that usually the limit is ship value as stated earlier.

Don't you think for streaming purposes they should remove the red/blue overlay which makes a cool space battle look like just a bunch of squares standing around if you don't know the game?

Doing so would ruin the value of the video broadcast for those who DO know what's going on. It would be reduced to a seemingly random video of shooting and explosions.

Hope I've helped.

Re:Can someone who plays explain some things (3, Informative)

codetwice (980018) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479978)

When you die, you lose your ship right? What on earth would compel a team to enter a tournament unless they were sure they were in range of the top 4 spots?

The point of an alliance tournament is not to make a lot of money. It is to show yourself and prove yourself in the eyes of the community, to earn some respect and achieve something only a few people have achieved before. The prices for the top 3 are very high this time, but I am quite sure that the alliance tournament would not be less popular if there were no other prices than just the title itself.

How isolated are these tournaments? Can random people just fly in and start messing stuff up? Can you run away if you're about to be killed?

The arena is in an isolated area of space, unaccessible to normal players. Running away is not an option, the entire arena is a large warp disruption zone and if you leave it you're ship will be blown up by a GM.

What are the limitations of the team? What's to stop a really rich team from having a better loadout? Or a really big team? Can you have a large team of cheap ships?

A team can field 10 ships max, this means 10 players. Every single ship class (frigate, assault frigate, bomber, cruiser, heavy assault cruise, recon, battleship, battlecruiser, etc) has a set point value and a team can field maximum 100 points worth of ships. This means you can either go with a few big and expensive ships and spend the few remaining points on some small ships or you can go with a full set (10 pieces) of medium sized vessels. There are also limitation on what modules you may use: the super expensive stuff is prohibited as it would put a lot of smaller teams into disadvantage.

How many human players are involved in a battle.

Maximum of 10 per team, so 20 per battle. Most of the teams used 10.

Don't you think for streaming purposes they should remove the red/blue overlay which makes a cool space battle look like just a bunch of squares standing around if you don't know the game?

The alliane tournament is both for new and veteran players. While new players (or outsiders) are amazed by the graphics, you can experience that any time you just sit down and play the game. The really interesting part about the tournament is the tactics, and even with the squares on its still very difficult to tell whats going on. Without the squares it would be totally impossible. Imagine looking at a chess board where every piece is white. The general approach followed by the camera team was that they were trying to show a more strategic, "squary" look of the fight when there were a lot of things going on and the outcome would not be obvious yet... and go for nice, more cinematic shots when one of the teams started winning and the match was mostly decided already.

Re:Can someone who plays explain some things (2)

neonKow (1239288) | more than 4 years ago | (#32480652)

Thanks, Wog and codetwice.

Terrible announcers (2, Interesting)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 4 years ago | (#32479846)

These would be fun to watch if they had decent announcers. They are just saying "Team A is doing a lot of damage to Team B's (insert ship name)" and stuff like that. Even someone who has never played the game could look at the screen and tell you that. I wouldn't listen to a baseball announcer who just said "It's the 3rd inning, and the guy in the middle is throwing a ball at someone holding a bat. Look! He hit it! Now the scoreboard shows Team A scored."

Instead, they need to be informed of the loadouts ahead of time so they can say "Team A is using speed tanking to prevent missile damage by the (insert ship type here). This loadout is weak against smart bombs but works great against Team B's choice of long range missile damage."

I haven't played in years, and it is hard to make the action of a bunch of icons interesting without someone giving relevant background. It's too bad: the game is so highly tactical it really would add a lot of value to have people who know what they are talking about.

Re:Terrible announcers (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 4 years ago | (#32480472)

I watched a few more... they got better as they went along.

Re:Terrible announcers (1)

flibuste (523578) | more than 4 years ago | (#32500984)

I totally agree. But CCP won't change anything even if all Eve players agree...As it is now, tournament videos are just boring...

Missing the other bit (3, Insightful)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 4 years ago | (#32482110)

Too bad they're not showing the hundreds or even thousands of hours worth of mining that went into making the largest ships.

Or the 2 years worth of subscription that went into getting the ability to pilot the more advanced ones (learning skills is on a clock using real life time).

Yes, I've played EVE in the past: left when I came to the conclusion it's too much like work, only slower.

EVE has a lot of grassroots advertising above and beyond what it's size would seem to justify because it is fun for the small group you've been there for a long time and belong to one of the player Alliances that control the space with the rarest minerals. It's not really fun for newer players - addictive perhaps, but not fun.

Because of how skills are learned over a period using real-life time (u need not be logged-in for the time to count) a new player can never catch up on an older player.
Also the economy is based around the mining of minerals (used for making ships), the most common (least valueable and used in larger quantities for ship making) are found in safe NPC controlled space while the least common are found only in player controlled space (where if you don't belong to the right group you'll be shot on sight).

Somebody has to spend hours and hours mining all those low level minerals needed for making the largest ships for the players in those player Alliances that control "unsafe" space and who beter than newer players (who cannot go outside safe space without being shot) who are suppose to "work" before they get to have fun in PvP?

It is in the best interest of the estabilished players to get as much fresh meat as possible into the game to do the mining.

If you have several years of EVE under your belt and are in a player Alliance you're probably having some fun fights once in a while (a lot of time is wasted in other things and you still have to do some mining of higher level minerals), but if you're not one of those then the game is much lot less interesting than the fanboys portray it.

Re:Missing the other bit (1)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 4 years ago | (#32484270)

God, again with the complaints about mining!

I have 4 eve chars, totaling almost 200 million skill points, and I've mined a total of 3 hours in over 4 years of playing.

The oldest, richest characters in Eve make their money on industrial stuff: Purchasing, trading, producing from valuable blueprints, etc. Value added kinds of stuff.

A lot of people (me, in my earlier days) just went killing NPC pirates for bounties. You can make enough to buy even the most expensive ship fielded in the tournament (probably one of the Macharials or Rattlesnakes) inside of a week, easy.

A lot of people do "quests", i.e. "go here, kill that", from NPC agents. Those make a huge amount of money.

The richer alliances control minerals, yes that's true, but largely it's "Moon mining", i.e. it happens in real time, and all you have to do is empty the silos every once in a while. That's where a lot of them make their money.

And on top of that, remember this is Eve - you can always steal your way to a fortune.

~X

Re:Missing the other bit (3, Insightful)

harl (84412) | more than 4 years ago | (#32486784)

Because of how skills are learned over a period using real-life time (u need not be logged-in for the time to count) a new player can never catch up on an older player.

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of EVE game mechanics. It's either complete ignorance or pure slander.

All skills in EVE are on a 1 to 5 scale. For example you can train Large Projectile Turrets to level 5 in a month. You can train it to 4 in about 6 days. Training from 1 to 4 takes 20% of the time as training from 1 to 5. In 20% of the time you can be 80% as good as that multi-year player.

This isn't a traditional MMPOG like progression where a level 30 is completely incapable of touching a level 60. A one month old character can take out a multi-year player no problem.

Old characters aren't better they're simply more versatile. Say you can max your projectile skills in 4 months. They're maxed. They don't get any better. If you're 4 months old with maxed projectile and they're 24 months old with the same exact projectile skills how exactly did you not catch them?

Sure that 24 month old player can also use lasers really well. But that just gives him options. It doesn't make him better. You have the exact same skills. You're just as good.

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