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Open Data and a Critical Citizenry

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the next-step-in-literacy dept.

Government 50

Last week we discussed news that the UK government had released a treasure trove of public spending data. Charles Arthur, the Guardian's technology editor, wrote at the time how crucial it was for citizens to find ways to examine and interpret the data; otherwise it would be useless. Now, an anonymous reader sends in a response from open data activist David Eaves, who takes it a step further. He writes, "We need a data-literate citizenry, not just a small elite of hackers and policy wonks. And the best way to cultivate that broad-based literacy is not to release in small or measured quantities, but to flood us with data. To provide thousands of niches that will interest people in learning, playing and working with open data. ... It is worth remembering: We didn’t build libraries for an already literate citizenry. We built libraries to help citizens become literate. Today we build open data portals not because we have a data or public policy literate citizenry, we build them so that citizens may become literate in data, visualization, coding and public policy."

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All true, but (0, Offtopic)

tuomoks (246421) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543142)

All true, but we didn't publish books in sanskrit or any other proprietary language! So, the information should be in open format, available for all, not just for some with a, usually very expensive, proprietary tool or toy!

Re:All true, but (4, Informative)

Looce (1062620) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543236)

The COINS dataset [data.gov.uk] , which is talked about in the summary, was recently published in CSV files (not proprietary), compressed with Zip (not proprietary) and distributed using HTTP (not proprietary) and BitTorrent (not proprietary) at the user's option.

Re:All true, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32543296)

No, we publish books in any language we want. There is no mandate that all books must be published in a readable language.

Re:All true, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32545272)

Just because you don't have rwx on Sanskrit it doesn't become proprietary.

No, no you don't want that. (2, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543220)

We need a data-literate citizenry, not just a small elite [group] of hackers...

You aren't going to get that, because what you're talking about is citizen-to-citizen education. Hackers do that already amongst themselves, and as a result they are constantly watched by the government and often viewed as a threat to the state. The government only wants people educated to a certain level -- that level being whatever is necessary so they can become a wage slave. Anything more than that, and you're abnormal, and therefore a threat.

You'll never have a data-literate citizentry, because you'll never have a government that wants citizens to be capable of independent thought, critical thinking, and access to the facts and circumstances in realtime (or even a reasonable time) because that's a security risk. All that data being released without form or processing ability is not to help you, it's to overwhelmn you and divide you to the point where no criticism can be effectively leveraged against the government because it's simply too large, too entrenched, to make any form of protest useful.

Re:No, no you don't want that. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32543250)

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality', which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to paedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [archive.org] , spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.fr] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com] !

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.fr] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org] . To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.fr] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [goatse.fr] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.fr] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [goatse.fr] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [mandrake.com] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.fr] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherent gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [geekizoid.com] ' originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.fr] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [goatse.fr] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org] .

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.fr] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.fr] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.fr] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [hitler.org] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [stileproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.fr] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [goatse.fr] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [goatse.fr] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [archive.org] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org] , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com] , but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [slashdot.org] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

A couple weeks ago, while taking my asian girlfriend shopping at the local mall, I had to take a piss. As I entered the john, Steve Jobs -- the messiah himself -- came out of one of the booths. I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was busy and in any case I was sure the security guards wouldn't even let me shake his hand.

As soon as he left I darted into the booth he'd vacated, hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still warm from his sturdy ass. I found not only the smell but the shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat, stiff, and ruggedly textured. The real prize was a great feast of turd -- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as his cock -- or at least as I imagined it!

I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd always been a liberal thinker and had been an Apple customer since 1984. Of course I'd had fantasies of meeting Jobs, sucking his cock and balls, not to mention sucking his asshole clean, but I never imagined I would have the chance. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of Steve Jobs, the chosen one.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both hands to keep it from breaking. I lifted it to my nose. It smelled like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit without the benefit of a digestive tract?

I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it smelled.

I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big half nigger cock, beating my meat like a madman, and thrusting my pink iPod Shuffle into my ass. I wanted to completely engulf it and bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily, sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My only regret was that Steve Jobs wasn't there to see my loyalty and wash it down with his piss.

I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with the rich bitterness of shit. It's even better than reading an Apple press release!

Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished them out, rolled them into my handkerchief, and stashed them in my briefcase. In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole. Not an unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using them but within a week they were all gone. The last one I held in my mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six orgasms in the process.

I often think of Steve Jobs dropping solid gold out of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could, and at least once did, bring to a grateful Apple customer.

Re:No, no you don't want that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32545990)

BEST TROLL... EVER!

Negative Nancy (1)

Sp1n3rGy (69101) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544112)

Quit being so damned negative!

Many people teach themselves all kinds of extraordinary talents these day. Have you looked around youtube recently? You don't have to be a geek to be interested in learning after college age.

Examples from just one subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCsKGRniGY&feature=fvst [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WkEKb4Ukzs&feature=fvst [youtube.com]

I for one, assumed all of this data would be owned and sold by companies, making it scarce. Today's business runs on information, though.

Where is this free data? Any sources?

Guardian page on world hovernment data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32548802)

Here's one source -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world-government-data [guardian.co.uk]

And while I think of it

EUROSTAT EU statistics - http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/eurostat/home/ [europa.eu]

Just to chip in with the perspective of someone who has been dealing in health care data for the past several years: Most of the analyses of this open data will be done by people and groups with an agenda. Which will be good because they'll be motivated to actually do the analyses, and will be bad because their analyses will be at risk of intended and unintended bias in practice and reporting. Doing good data analysis is hard, as the health care field has learned to its cost. See, eg, Gary Taubes on epidemiology, PLoS Medicine on writing and reporting practices in pharma, Ioannidis on "Why most published research findings are false." (Google the title). Results of open data analysis may be released on the Internet with minimal review or quality control, and misinformation has a prodigious ability to spread and persist. Even those who don't feel qualified to critique the analysis itself can still insist that analysts are open about their intentions and disclose potential conflicts of interest. Those able to do a technical critique should insist that we are told enough about the methods to reproduce the analysis in full.

Re:No, no you don't want that. (1)

Luke has no name (1423139) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544480)

We haven't gotten to get that yet, because what you're talking about is citizen-to-citizen education. Hackers do that already amongst themselves, and as a result they are constantly watched by the government and often viewed as a threat to the state. The government only wants people educated to a certain level -- that level being whatever is necessary so they can become a wage slave. Anything more than that, and you're abnormal, and therefore a threat.

We don't yet have a data-literate citizentry, because we don't yet have a government that wants citizens to be capable of independent thought, critical thinking, and access to the facts and circumstances in realtime (or even a reasonable time) because that's a perceived security risk.

All that data being released without form or processing ability is not to help you, it's to overwhelm you and divide you to the point where no criticism can be effectively leveraged against the government because it's simply too large, too entrenched, to make any form of protest useful. Therefore, we should make tools like the FA suggests that facilitate the understanding of our legal proceedings and the laws being passed in various countries.

--FTFY

We are in a world without precedent. While I share girlintrainings's skepticism and understand the point, I don't write off the capability of citizens to make the world and the government a better place.

THE WEB IS 17 YEARS OLD. Give it time.

Re:No, no you don't want that. (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544724)

We are in a world without precedent. While I share girlintrainings's skepticism and understand the point, I don't write off the capability of citizens to make the world and the government a better place.

THE WEB IS 17 YEARS OLD. Give it time.

Her point exactly. Would you say that world governments as a whole are heading towards less or more restriction of the internet? Yeah, [webpronews.com] I [wikipedia.org] thought [theinquirer.net] so. [onthemedia.org]

And much of the censorship apparatus is being manufactured by...yep, you guessed it...Americans.

Re:No, no you don't want that. (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544850)

It really doesn't make any sense to claim to care about what happens to people when you have so little respect for them.

Re:No, no you don't want that. (1)

dr2chase (653338) | more than 4 years ago | (#32546524)

No government conspiracy required. People like their ruts, and will pick and choose the data that supports their opinions, and come up with silly-ass reasons to ignore contrary data. Their "reasoning" (to use the word loosely) exists to help ward off the cognitive dissonance in their own head, not to convince anyone else.

So, for example, in Massachusetts, school spending is measured exactly thus-and-so, by state law. And people who want to believe that a school system is wasting money, they will simply ignore it if that data says otherwise. Spend below the state median, below the state average, and someone who doesn't want to raise taxes, will complain that the superintendent is paid too much (90th percentile outcomes, 45th percentile spending, we don't pay him enough). If a group organizes to support an effort to raise taxes by $2 million, and raises $10,000 in campaign funds, people who oppose them will complain that (clearly) they should have donated that $10,000 to the town instead (because with only $1,990,000 more dollars, the funding gap would be closed).

We're talking about an actual town, these are pretty much actual numbers. The reasoning is head-banglingly innumerate. (Be interesting to see if any of the partisans reads Slashdot.)

Yeah... ok.... (3, Insightful)

werewolf1031 (869837) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543224)

Today we build open data portals not because we have a data or public policy literate citizenry, we build them so that citizens may become literate in data, visualization, coding and public policy.

Good luck with that, because the painful truth is that the average pop-media-junky, marketing-spoon-fed citizen is resistant to learning as a general course. I've known so many people - adults, mind you - who honestly believe they simply can't learn new things, especially things of any sort of technical nature, be it computer-related, math-related, or what have you. It makes me sad, but there it is.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32543364)

Today we build open data portals not because we have a data or public policy literate citizenry, we build them so that citizens may become literate in data, visualization, coding and public policy.

Good luck with that, because the painful truth is that the average pop-media-junky, marketing-spoon-fed citizen is resistant to learning as a general course. I've known so many people - adults, mind you - who honestly believe they simply can't learn new things, especially things of any sort of technical nature, be it computer-related, math-related, or what have you. It makes me sad, but there it is.

and this is a reason to not distribute the data on a large scale to those who wish to access it? This is akin to someone saying that by and large, my slaves are ignorant and unwilling to learn, therefore they should not be taught to read or write. Your developed stereotype, which is still valid for use in a PERSONAL context, does not fit in the context of making a larger decision that effects entire countries.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543456)

and this is a reason to not distribute the data on a large scale to those who wish to access it? This is akin to someone saying that by and large, my slaves are ignorant and unwilling to learn, therefore they should not be taught to read or write.

No, its more akin to someone saying that by and large, my slaves are ignorant and unwilling to learn, therefore I won't build them a library, because they won't use it.

If people could learn there wouldn't be slavery. (2, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543678)

Obviously people refuse to learn the truth because the truth is too scary. They want to believe in the fantasy illusion created by Disney and by religious systems, to convinced themselves that God is protecting them or that the good guys always win, or that the government is protecting them, or that some savior, aliens, robots from cybertron, will come and save them.

NOBODY IS COMING TO SAVE YOU. First learn to save yourself and you wont tolerate being ignorant. Free yourself from your own ignorance before you try to save someone else.

Thats the only message that will allow people to truly WTFU(Wake the f*ck up). And even this isn't enough because even if you know the truth about reality you won't be able to change it, because the majority of sheep are comfortable.

Re:If people could learn there wouldn't be slavery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32548562)

Big talk, basement boy.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543424)

Don't even get me started.

I have a friend who is so incredibly opposed to reading that it annoys him when I put subtitles on.

I have another who is reconsidering his decision of going to university this fall because he doesn't think he'll be able to do Calculus, since he forgot most of his high school math. It's not like it'd be that bad to take a refresher course.

I get people at work who ignore me when I try to show them how to take a screenshot and/or copy and paste an error message, because they believe it to be too complicated for them to figure out.

Uneducated is understandable, and ignorance is annoying, but willful ignorance absolutely enrages me.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544508)

The people I know who hate subtitles don't hate them because of reading... there are two reasons that I've seen:

1. If they understand the spoken language, it's distracting. Most of us see text, and the eye is drawn to it to read. This hampers immersion.
2. If they don't understand it, they spend time reading the subtitle and less time watching what is actually going on. This hampers immersion.

The commonality between both of these: It hampers immersion.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544658)

Well, to reply to myself after some though...

I should mention the people I associate with brighter than average. I don't socialize with idiots, and I'm lucky to have an intelligent family.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32545524)

> 2. If they don't understand it, they spend time reading the subtitle and less time watching what is actually going on. This hampers immersion.

I watched "The Go Master" (a biography of Go Seigen, nee Wu Chingyuan) recently. True, with the subtitles off I would have been more "immersed" in the emotion/drama/culture of pre-war Japan... but I wouldn't have been able to understand anything that people were saying.

I suppose I could have picked up a lot of context from the character interactions, but it would have taken me quite a while to recognize people like Segoe or Iwamoto Kaoru. And I didn't know any details about his involvement with the woman Jikoson and her religious movement/cult at all prior to watching the movie, so I might not ever have figured that one out.

I'm not sure how you can watch a drama (not a comedy, not a mindless action flick) in a language you don't know without subtitles. But I also don't understand people who have the TV on all the time and aren't watching it - maybe the two are related. When I'm watching a movie, it's because I want to watch the movie. When I'm not, the TV is off.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

tuomoks (246421) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544588)

Well, you got me started, maybe I have too much time now? And I don't want to get you feel more desperate - it doesn't help. And even I haven't given up yet finding people who really, really love the life and learning - it's just hard and frustrating sometimes.

Now, half retired, in a foreign country with some(!) expats I can tell that opposing learning is not age depend! But so isn't learning - some over 80 (some way over!) know more and learn faster than some of my developers over years, and they were 1/3th that age! But these people seem to live long, have fun, don't worry, eat, dance, drink, etc as much as they like. Unlike some, yes we have those here, 20-30 years younger, just don't like to learn anything anymore - I gave up helping them, it's like stealing money from kids! Just wonder, did they ever learn / know anything but they had to - they made fortunes and now just wait the death, or drink themselves to death? Strange?

Re:Yeah... ok.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32547662)

Subtitles are frigging annoying. All they do is cause you to notice translation errors in them.

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

migla (1099771) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544818)

On the other hand, more and more people are finding more information and affiliations all over the world.

While the pop-media and marketing stranglehold on mainstream culture is depressing, the opposition is growing too. Looking at "pop-media" and "marketing-spoon-fed citizens", things are and have been getting worse for decades, but at the same time, they are getting better.

I don't know if will take decades yet for critical thinking to reach critical mass, but I can't see the progress of humankind declining on the whole.

Surely, all the triumphs of bullshit and other bad shit are just smaller swings of the pendulum on a general trajectory towards a more enlightened, better future. Or did I dream it?

Re:Yeah... ok.... (1)

Lord Grey (463613) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544876)

Good luck with that, because the painful truth is that the average pop-media-junky, marketing-spoon-fed citizen is resistant to learning as a general course. I've known so many people - adults, mind you - who honestly believe they simply can't learn new things, especially things of any sort of technical nature, be it computer-related, math-related, or what have you. It makes me sad, but there it is.

What you say is, unfortunately, true in the general sense. The average person dislikes learning new stuff for a myriad of reasons. But this line from the summary:

To provide thousands of niches that will interest people in learning, playing and working with open data.

I don't think "people" meant all people or the average person. I think it really means, "more than the few who are doing it now." There's always a certain percentage of a population that likes poking around with virtually any topic you could name. If you expand that population, then more people will get involved. That could -- but not necessarily -- trigger even more people to get interested.

That's my take on it, anyway. I think it's a good idea, and worth trying.

Religion interprets the data. (1, Funny)

elucido (870205) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543332)

It's impossible to ever have a data literate citizenship because data is interpreted by religion. It's interpreted by religion because people aren't naturally reasonable and don't do whats in their individual self interest.

An example, if the sexual behavior of every human being in the USA were released what would be the response by the general public? If you want to predict the response look at the response to homosexuality.

Another example, if nobody in the USA had any secret from anyone else what would be the result?

If you are a jew are you comfortable with neo-nazi's having your medical records? If you are muslim are you comfortable with jews having access to your medical history? If you are anyone are you comfortable with everyone having access to every dumb thing you've said or done in your entire life?

Sure they wont be as much blackmail going on, instead people will be getting killed for who they are and with unlimited information it's much easier to make the lists.

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543398)

It's impossible to ever have a data literate citizenship because data is interpreted by religion. It's interpreted by religion because people aren't naturally reasonable and don't do whats in their individual self interest.

An example, if the sexual behavior of every human being in the USA were released what would be the response by the general public? If you want to predict the response look at the response to homosexuality.

Another example, if nobody in the USA had any secret from anyone else what would be the result?

If you are a jew are you comfortable with neo-nazi's having your medical records? If you are muslim are you comfortable with jews having access to your medical history? If you are anyone are you comfortable with everyone having access to every dumb thing you've said or done in your entire life?

Sure they wont be as much blackmail going on, instead people will be getting killed for who they are and with unlimited information it's much easier to make the lists.

The sexual behavior of humans was released in the Kinsey books. It offended many people. Medical records are not suggested as an open source item, the data is too personal. You are taking it a bit too far, they are only suggesting making a massive amount of public data available. It would specifically identify your credit card purchases, just the fact that Y people spent X amount over Z time on A things.

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543420)

... wouldnt^ specifically identify your credit card purchases ...

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543518)

By making the data available, it allows for easy connections of said data.

Connecting a bunch of innocuous sets of data can create a story line about a person - you would know everything about them.

Here in the States: It's amazing what you tell about an individual just from their credit report. Add in Lexus-Nexus and I'll know just about everything about you.

Everyone has something to hide and for good reason.

People are cruel, shallow and small minded.

We aren't talking about anonymous data. (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543536)

If we knew for sure the data being datamined on facebook were anonymous and would forever remain anonymous thats one thing but when you have peoples names and identities attached to this data it moves beyond the realm of statistical analysis and scientific research and into the realm of religious judgement and criminal persecutions.

What you end up with is witch-hunting, banning of certain behaviors, hatred of larges groups of individuals who think a certain way, and general cultural bigotry.

How can you trust with your life, liberty and honor that the data being collected about you wont someday be used to destroy your life, liberty and honor?

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543602)

It's impossible to ever have a data literate citizenship because data is interpreted by religion. It's interpreted by religion because people aren't naturally reasonable and don't do whats in their individual self interest.

An example, if the sexual behavior of every human being in the USA were released what would be the response by the general public? If you want to predict the response look at the response to homosexuality.

Another example, if nobody in the USA had any secret from anyone else what would be the result?

If you are a jew are you comfortable with neo-nazi's having your medical records? If you are muslim are you comfortable with jews having access to your medical history? If you are anyone are you comfortable with everyone having access to every dumb thing you've said or done in your entire life?

Sure they wont be as much blackmail going on, instead people will be getting killed for who they are and with unlimited information it's much easier to make the lists.

The sexual behavior of humans was released in the Kinsey books. It offended many people.

Medical records are not suggested as an open source item, the data is too personal.

You are taking it a bit too far, they are only suggesting making a massive amount of public data available. It would specifically identify your credit card purchases, just the fact that Y people spent X amount over Z time on A things.

Unfortunately your medical records aren't as secret as you think. When you search for certain terms on Google or buy certain things on amazon the spyware, adware, and other products track where you go, what you look at, and somewhere somebody knows at least some of your medical vulnerabilities. These individuals are running privately controlled corporations which may be controlled by foreign entities with no regard for the Constitution or your rights. This information can be sold to anybody for any reason once collected and through statistically analysis along with your identity and purchase history, you can learn a surprising amount of details about a person.

This is the least of it because with facebook now every detail about you is public. Think about it.

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544668)

What's this "Kinsey books" ? More information is requested :)

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 4 years ago | (#32545064)

He's a scientist that did a massive study of human sexuality. Just Google it and it will come.

Re:Religion interprets the data. (1)

turkeydance (1266624) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543510)

what he said.

Facebook = fail :\ (1)

jonaskoelker (922170) | more than 4 years ago | (#32547552)

Cool post! Mind if I share it with my friends on facebook?

(And goddammit, why do I use facebook? ... sigh ...)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics (2, Insightful)

Dogbertius (1333565) | more than 4 years ago | (#32543984)

Too bad most of the population doesn't even grasp basic tactics used to manipulate the representation of data. The most common ones being:
-cherry picking
-disproportionately small samples sizes
-no idea of what a confidence interval is
-the fallacy of appealing to tradition/religion/celebrity-endorsement/belief
-the inability to distinguish between science and psuedo/junk-science
-or that, GASP, correlation does not imply causation


This is a simple combination of common sense and critical thinking, which we were taught in fifth grade elementary school. Still, such a disturbing number of people seem to be unable to grasp such basic concepts.

How exactly will they be able to interpret this data beyond dumping parts of it in excel, extracting an average (without outlier removal or consideration, because, "why would we do that? Won't it make it less accurate?"), and making another ridiculous policy or tax as a result? I'm all for making this data available for analysis by the public, but it is the responsibility of individuals to educate themselves beyond what they did (or did not) learn in school as a kid so that policy makers cannot bully them into submission due to an inability to interpret data or understand certain concepts.

And before someones cries out "academic elitist", let me note, again, that that the above topics are taught to us as children, not in university.

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

Ashriel (1457949) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544392)

Wow, where did you go to school? Wherever it was, consider yourself lucky. While I don't remember much about my early school years (I spent most of the time either sitting in the back reading, or skipping class altogether), I'm pretty sure critical thinking skills weren't a part of it. Where I went to school, you either had critical thinking skills, or you (most likely) didn't. No one taught them (who wants children that can think for themselves?).

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

Dogbertius (1333565) | more than 4 years ago | (#32545740)

I went to school in a smaller town based around a farming-type community. Not quite the burbs, but still small-townish. I was fortunate enough that my teacher was very passionate about what he taught. Two days after we started learning plotting simple graphs, he showed how zooming in could be used to to deceive. Small things here and there that accumulated over time.

Re:Lies, damned lies, and statistics (1)

paper tape (724398) | more than 4 years ago | (#32546980)

They don't teach critical thinking in school anymore.

The ideologues in charge of modern education don't want children thinking critically about their indoctrination. That would hamper the programming.

I'm happy for the folks in the UK (1)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 4 years ago | (#32544232)

Unfortunately, here in the US 99% of the population isn't interested in becoming really "literate". They are happy to watch NASCAR events and American Idol on TV, read People magazine and the Weekly World News and not much else.

The Internet is specifically for playing games, forwarding hoax emails and for building up a self-reinforcing attitude of superiority by reading blogs from people suffering from "Extreme Ego Syndrome" or EES. It used to be that in person when encountering someone with EES you would excuse yourself quickly - today's EES sufferers now have a forum and an audience, two things guaranteed to build a simple case of EES into the much more severe EFES (Extreme Fatous Ego Syndrome). EFES sufferers have been known to rise to high public office (like Grand Dragon or the equivalent in Mensa) and sometimes run for President.

Sadly, there is no know cure for EFES and the cure for EES is to isolate the sufferer until their ego will fit in a hatbox. The US Army used to have a solution for this - Alaska - but this is no longer a reasonable solution. Too many people in Alaska these days.

Re:I'm happy for the folks in the UK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32558470)

The US Army used to have a solution for this - Alaska - but this is no longer a reasonable solution.

It also clearly no longer works - Alaska has given us Caribou Barbie, who can rail against "socialism" while expecting praise for her half-term as governor of a state which (*gasp*) considers oil resources a collective property and REDISTRIBUTES the proceeds to all residents. Socialism my ass.

The data you requested is missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32544662)

Sorry, the IPCC deleted the data.

Data literacy? Give me a break. (1)

Angst Badger (8636) | more than 4 years ago | (#32546246)

If you lack logic and mathematics skills and have no real understanding of scientific method, to say nothing of broader and deeper general education than you are likely to get in American schools, all the data in the world won't help you. We are decades past the point when an average person with an average education and no particular motivation to constantly self-educate can understand the world around them, much less make coherent policy decisions.

We have reached the point when we must either commit to much higher educational standards or disenfranchise the under-educated. Or just stand by helplessly while professional rabble rousers manipulate an increasingly ignorant general population and turn democracy into a mockery of itself.

Flood people with data and they drown. (1)

paper tape (724398) | more than 4 years ago | (#32547068)

The more data you flood people with, the less likely it is that they will look at any of it. At best, they will pick an agency (one that agrees with their prejudices and preconceived notions) to aggregate, collate, and boil down that data into short bites that have little relation to the meaning of the original data.

At worst, they will be overwhelmed to the point where they simply ignore most of it.

Example of the latter: at my job, I receive about 150 work-related emails a day, even on my weekends. I delete all but two or three without even reading them, because the vast majority are informational emails that I don't have to read - and if I read them all, I'd have no time to actually do my job.

China (1)

UBfusion (1303959) | more than 4 years ago | (#32547360)

Could we please have the same flood of open data for China, in the hope that we might reveal the secrets of their blooming economy?

Data quakity (1)

plopez (54068) | more than 4 years ago | (#32550212)

Of course I meant quality, but it was a typo. Anyone searching for "quality" in the subject field would not find it. There is a huge amount of "dirty data" out there. In addition 2 organization, even in the same building; part of the same department or work group; Ofen record things differently or have conflicting information.

How do we find the inforation and insure it is correct?Quality must
be addressed before releasing data.

Facebook a good public education (1)

cavebison (1107959) | more than 4 years ago | (#32550630)

Take Facebook.. due to the flood of usage and forcing people to use what is a *web app* as opposed to just a web site/blog, I think it's made a lot of people becomes more web-savvy and aware of things like "settings".

In that way, I think FB has, however inadvertently, done the general public a great service. It's also, inadvertently, made people think more about "technology issues" like privacy and security, and what "data" actually means.

I'd be happy if voters were numerate (0)

presidenteloco (659168) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554902)

To most people, money works kind of like this:
$1,$10,$100,$1000,$10,000,$100,000,$gazillions and gazillions

This leads to insane election results, where an incumbent government is kicked out
because the documentation was missing on $ 3 million (i.e. $ 3 gazillion) in government spending, on some
insignificant program, when the government was managing a $150 billion annual budget.
The unaccounted for amount was 1 / 50,000 (=0.002%) of the budget being managed.

(This actually happened in Canada).

Or, when asked what a government should do to cut costs, many voters say:
"The bastards should cut their MP (representative) salaries in half!"

(Thereby probably saving something like a whopping 1 / 10,000 (0.01%) of the annual budget.)

Anything we can do to make people start being able to at least figure in
rough orders of magnitude, and to understand what "in the noise" means,
has my vote!

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