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Getting Paid Fairly When Job Responsibilities Spiral?

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the for-an-honest-day's-work dept.

The Almighty Buck 495

greymond writes "I was originally hired as an Online Content Producer to write articles for a company website as well as start up the company's social media outlets on Facebook and Twitter. With budget cuts and layoffs I ended up also taking over the website facilitation for three of the company's websites (they let go of the current webmaster). During this time the company has been developing a new website and I was handed the role of pseudo project manager to make sure the developer stayed on course with the project's due date. Now that we're closer to launch the company has informed me that they don't have the budget or staff in place to set up the web server and have tasked me with setting up the LAMP and Zend App on an Amazon EC2 setup. While it's been years since I worked this much with Linux I'm picking it up and moving things along. Needless to say I want to ask for more money, as well as more resources (as well as a better title that fits my roles), but what is the best way to go about this? Of course my other thought is that I'd much rather go back to writing and working with marketing than getting back into IT."

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The main issue (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32553584)

In this economy, You are pretty replaceble, according to what you say your skills are. So you are behind the eightball.

Re:The main issue (5, Insightful)

tsm_sf (545316) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554432)

He's basically stated that his company isn't willing to pay the going rate for the work he does. They could certainly fill his position, and they might get lucky with some bright kid fresh out of school, but if his boss is competent he'll know that anyone willing to take a cut in pay will also move on at the earliest opportunity. He's not going to get fired for asking for a raise unless there are large problems with the company or the employee.

He could probably go for a minor raise, but the opportunity is ripe for picking up a few quality of life perks. Something that costs the company nothing, like a new job title, would be perfect. Maybe try to weasel some time to work from home or flex hours, or maybe just a new chair.

Being able to point to a spreadsheet showing the increase in workload would be pretty handy.


Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32553602)

This is a good thing for all concerned!!!!

Third, yet first, post. (-1, Offtopic)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32553984)

What [] gives, [] guys?

Have you too been haxxored by the mighty GNAA?

Dear Playboy, it happened to me (5, Interesting)

AnAdventurer (1548515) | more than 4 years ago | (#32553990)

I was in the same spot, hired as a web content person, next thing I knew I was IT manager for the corporation doing PC support, hands-on sever, PBX, twisted pair, web development and CSM rec, integration and more. I was working 60-80 a week and after 6 months I got a "good job" and no raise, another 2 months and I had to ask for a raise. I got a big "why and NO", needless to say my enjoyment of my job went to zero and it showed. I was asked to resign 3 weeks later. They has to hired 2 people to replace me.

That happens all the time. (5, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554406)

Understand it and plan for it.

Keep your resume up-to-date and USE it. Shop yourself around at least every year to see what you're really worth and what job skills you should be working on.

The good thing about situations like that is that they look GREAT on your resume. Just work on the narrative and explain how you took on more responsibilities as the needs of your employer changed.

Welcome to the world... (5, Insightful)

dugjohnson (920519) | more than 4 years ago | (#32553998)

You are the owner of a company called you.  You are experiencing feature creep from your main and only client, your employer.  Assuming you are still responsible for what you were originally hired for, you need to point out that you are now being asked to do a lot more than you originally signed on to do, and that you need to reach a new understanding that will work for both of you.

Be professional.  Be firm.  You might want to read some back blogs by Bob Lewis, as he covers this kind of stuff all the time.

A couple of examples

Re:Welcome to the world... (2, Interesting)

Luke has no name (1423139) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554130)

Why do you post in monotype?

Re:Welcome to the world... (4, Funny)

Nikker (749551) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554140)

Maybe he talks in monotone?

Re:Welcome to the world... (1, Funny)

fm6 (162816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554178)

No. This. Is. How. Such. A. Per. Son. Types.

Re:Welcome to the world... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554142)

Using a typewriter.

Re:Welcome to the world... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554148)

Because it's like a console. To UNIX and *NIX people, this is very cool. I support his posting in monotype, and encourage him to continue doing so. Long live the console!

Re:Welcome to the world... (1)

wraithguard01 (1159479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554204)

Yeah, but it's all... fixed width, and this isn't a code writing environment. It kinda makes me feel like he's a robot though. When I read the comment, I pictured a robot in my mind.

Re:Welcome to the world... (4, Funny)

PhunkySchtuff (208108) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554282)

Don't you mean:

Because it's like a console. To UNIX and *NIX people, this is very cool. I suppo
rt his posting in monotype, and encourage him to continue doing so. Long live th
e console!

Re:Welcome to the world... (0, Offtopic)

Mister Kay (1119377) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554320)

Someone with mod points please give this man a cookie.

Re:Welcome to the world... (2, Informative)

fm6 (162816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554224)

He entered the comment in code mode.

Re:Welcome to the world... (3, Insightful)

Kenoli (934612) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554246)

Why do you post in monotype?

He must do it to make sure his comment is simply skipped over.

I naturally tend to ignore anything with unusual formatting. It's like they're shouting "Look at me! Look at me!". No, shut up.

Re:Welcome to the world... (4, Funny)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554418)

Monotype is a corporate standard across the entire company called you.

Wait until 1 month to launch (5, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554002)

Then tell them "More money or I go. Yes, I know that I'm basically what the whole thing hangs on. I'm your project manager, your web monkey, your server manager, your everything, basically. So, let's discuss my payment, title and other job perks".

But phrase it nicely. Managers don't like to have a dagger at their throat. Even if they basically handed it to you.

Bad, Bad Idea (0, Flamebait)

chevman (786211) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554044)

As a manager, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will buy you a one way ticket to the street.

1 month to launch? Sure, no problem, we'll give you a 10k per year raise.

And then we'll show you the exit a week or two after launch.

You think you're irreplaceable?

I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (5, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554076)

As an accountant, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will slowly run your company into the ground.

The problems here is there's not enough money to go around, and rather than give someone a payrise that would probably see their morale improve and thus often their performance as a knock-on effect you're advocating saving $10k by spending a completely disproportionate amount on advertisement and interviews. Beyond that after the very expensive exercise of actually hiring someone you end up with some idiot who is not only equally dissatisfied with their job and may soon after just run through and ask for the same payrise, but also has no frigging clue about how the company runs and needs to be retrained from the ground up, not to mention that there's a lot of interpersonal relationships that often promote efficiencies that you're advocating just pissing against the wall.

You sir are what is wrong with management today. The flat out attitude that an employee's entire worth is valued by the number they get paid. I hope one day when you fire 500 people so that your can afford a new personal jet each employee comes up and takes turn punching you in your fat face.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (1)

muphin (842524) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554158)

I agree

What you need to do is organise a meeting with the dept manager and HR rep, bring up your work description, acknowledge you position and what other work you have contributed and helped with the company and acknowledge that the finances are a bit tight right now so you would like to renegotiate your contract and within that contract apply appropriate wages and benefits and employment protection (not get fired without good reason). If you were employed for said work and done more than what you are employed for you are entitled to be paid for that said work, or leave (as your loosing out for doing more work than being paid for), make sure during negotiation that you bring up the cost of employing 1 or more people, including hours/days/weeks lost in training and catching up with the projects, and with no documentation thats a few months work there....

this should give you a fighting chance, always get everything in writing :)

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554242)

I think one of the things missing is, based upon the summary, it sounds like the company is taking the actions I've seen far too often of a company that is about to go under. It certainly isn't be managed very well, but even if it was, these sound like desperate actions, and regardless of what is done, I doubt the poster is going to have a place to go to work within 6 months. I could be wrong, of course, but I've had some experience in this area unfortunately.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554274)

I hope one day when you fire 500 people so that your can afford a new personal jet each employee comes up and takes turn punching you in your fat face.

Agreed. While I was with a past employer, they had a massive surprise layoff in the production department. They had to hire security because of all the threats they got from angry but hard-working married people.

My own boss, in the repair department, later gave me a month's warning in advance that I was going to be laid off. He even let me take the rest of the day off that day, for pay. The repair department was to be outsourced across the country so we could get faster turnaround, and it was now my job to train the people who were taking over for me.

I was elated to have been treated so well. I busted my ass hard for the company and was extended 4 times before I was finally laid off.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (4, Insightful)

beakerMeep (716990) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554336)

I'm sorry but he's right. He said it in a horribly tactless way, but to use a project launch as leverage is to show that you're manipulative and not a team player. These are people you have to continue to work with and they will never trust you again.

If he were to go to management and say "hey I am over-utilized, I would like a raise or a subordinate or just help from peers or SOMETHING; otherwise we might miss launch DESPITE my best efforts, (with documentation showing how much he is overworking) -- that would be a different story.

It's all about how you say it, are you in it for the long haul? Do they know that? Are you polite, willing to be flexible? Are you bringing the problem to THEIR attention with some suggested solutions and letting them decide?

Some situations will never be resolvable as one side or the other just doesn't care or wont budge. But most can be solved quite amicably to both sides with a little forethought and common courtesy.

Also, one thing to remember is that if you are going to convince someone you are over-booked, you need to tell them that each time they add an assignment to your plate, else they will continue to push you to your limits (which is not always a bad thing).

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554376)

So you would advocate keeping around the asshole who blackmailed your company? Do you not realize that he'd do it again the next time there was an important deadline, and again every time after that? And he won't be the only one. He's not firing people because of the money, he's firing people because of the bad attitude.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (1)

publiclurker (952615) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554398)

Funny how two faced hypocrites like you don't have any problems with companies blackmailing theirm employees.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554096)

As your employee, I know that your ass is on the line to maintain productivity with the budget you have. Good luck hiring those 100 other applicants who will not handle half as much workload that you shifted on me without asking twice as much as I'm asking for a raise.

Managers often think that hard-working employees can be replaced easily. Those are the managers who are usually first canned during departmental restructuring because of their "turn-over" rate. A good manager knows how to be effective at balancing his employees happiness with the company's productivity.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (5, Insightful)

nextekcarl (1402899) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554250)

Unless they happen to be related to the owners.*

*Sorry, personal pet peeve of mine.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (5, Insightful)

Cheerio Boy (82178) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554110)

As a manager, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will buy you a one way ticket to the street. 1 month to launch? Sure, no problem, we'll give you a 10k per year raise. And then we'll show you the exit a week or two after launch. You think you're irreplaceable? I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

And your attitude is the exact reason why I'm leaving I/T if I can do it. People who work their ass off should be rewarded and NOT replaced. Why? Because if you reward them and keep them they'll work their ass off for you AGAIN and AGAIN.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554174)

The goal is to take your skills and start your own business doing what your employer would have you do. Why not get the revenue if you're doing the work? Puts more managers like OP out of work as all they can typically do is "manage".

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554234)

I think you misread Chevman's post. He didn't say he'd fire anyone who asked for a raise; he said he'd fire someone who used blackmail to get a raise. He didn't say anything about whether he would reward those people who do a good job.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (1)

acoustix (123925) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554416)

I think you misread Chevman's post. He didn't say he'd fire anyone who asked for a raise; he said he'd fire someone who used blackmail to get a raise. He didn't say anything about whether he would reward those people who do a good job.

I don't think you know what the word "blackmail" means.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554448)

As a manager, as long as i get a nice car allowance and get to nick off early on a friday to go hit up the driving range, i honestly couldn't give a rat's ass. all i need is a small pool of people i can fire occasionally in response to any poor performance on my dept's behalf and an intern with nice tits and i'm sorted.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554154)

Yet undoubtedly your dumb ass couldn't do the job, and you get paid plenty more to do what? Bully people, write reports, and talk in meetings?

You are absolutely right that there are 100 people lining up for the job. It will take them six months to get up to speed. Many of the ones who are more qualified on paper are either lying on their resumes or else don't have the actual skill to back up their "qualifications". And almost undoubtedly, you are one of these people. That's how the world works, and we all know it.

You're allowed your arrogance and position just so long as you don't step on the wrong toes too hard. With the attitude you're displaying, your time is undoubtedly coming.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554156)

You think you're irreplaceable?

I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

To be honest sweetie, I am irreplaceable at 60k per year.

The great thing is that management like you is far more replaceable than I ever will be because I actually do something.

You, however, are an inconsequential dipshit who likely holds a degree in business administration or marketing.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554160)

Go replace yourself.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (4, Insightful)

schon (31600) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554192)

You think you're irreplaceable?

I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

And every single one of them wants triple what you're currently paying.

Because if they were more qualified and willing to work for the same amount, you'd be replacing your current employee.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (5, Insightful)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554236)

As a manager, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will buy you a one way ticket to the street.

And as a consultant who has seen many instances of the problem dictating the solution, your short-sightedness is going to bring you system failures, data loss, lower productivity and higher down stream costs.

Imagine if you walked in to accounting and announced that they were also going to need to handle HR. I'm sure there would be a lot of surprised looks. But when it comes to IT managers think nothing of walking in telling them they're also going to be taking care of the phone system or the accounting system or any number other departmental systems and then expecting them to just add that to what they already do.

I agree with the parent, you can't let other people set you up for failure. That's just as bad for your career. Got a call today for a job where the camel carrying too many straws quit. As they listed off all the required duties, I cut them off before they got to the end. It was a loser contract. They wanted 80 hours of work while paying for 40, the contracting process was a mess, then they tried to low ball the rate. Sometimes it's better to say no thanks.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (2, Insightful)

xmundt (415364) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554256)

Greetings and salutations...
          While this is a great exposition of the way management thinks, it also shows how truly short-sighted and unwise management can be. Lord knows, I have seen this sort of room-temperature IQ in companies MANY times over the years.
          The fact of the matter is that these are high-tech jobs that require a great deal of skill and knowledge. Also, EVERY setup like this is unique. it is not like hiring a new backhoe operator, where pretty much every backhoe works the same!
          now....let us say you put off the employee with pretty promises that you have no intentions of following through on. IT folks tend to be pretty bright, and, will catch on fairly quickly to this. Unless there are some rewards showing up, then, productivity will suffer, or, the quality of work will degrade. Without adequate rewards, you are, essentially, treating your employee as a slave, and, NO slave is very productive.
            Say, you DO give the employee a big raise, with the intentions of dumping them after the project is "done". Again...this works once, at best, and if your IT person has any experience under their belt, that has probably already happened to them once. They will recognize this and, again...productivity and quality will suffer.
            Do you want to know what the "tell" is in this scenario? The fact that the employee has been loaded with tons of extra work and responsibility, and has had to ASK for more money. The smart manager, who is truly interested in getting the project knocked out, getting a quality product, and keeping a valuable resource for the company will walk in and say something on the order of "we have these extra tasks to add to your job description, and, since we realize this is an expansion of our requirements, here are some perks/cash/etc we are adding to your pay package".
              It is true that ANY employee can be replaced. However, how much is the company willing at absorb in terms of lost productivity, training, and general delays from the normal startup time that it takes for a new hire to get an understanding of the setup to the point that they are NOT dangerous? management tends to forget that....
          dave mundt

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (2, Interesting)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554284)

This is absolutely true.

Unless the manager knows the company will go bankrupt if they fire you, they'll kill the company rather than admit you are irreplaceable.
I've seen companies pay a million bucks to PROVE that a $50k employee wasn't irreplaceable.

Your best option is do your best and FAIL at the web server jobs because you don't have those skills.
You absolutely don't want to be the IT person at a company like that. You'll be working nights, weekends and holidays while everyone else is drinking at the bar partying.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (3, Insightful)

suomynonAyletamitlU (1618513) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554286)

You think you're irreplaceable?

I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say either this is an exaggeration by 50-100x, or you really have no way to tell who's qualified for the position. No, he isn't irreplaceable. However, HR managers who believe that good employees (as opposed to line workers) are, in fact, replaceable, are going to send their business into the gutter. Because, frankly, the existence of replacements doesn't mean that YOU will find one.

Because I get the feeling you aren't working for a company everyone wants to work at--not Google or some amazing game studio or anything else really fun. So they won't be coming to you. That means that pretty much every resume you'll get is just someone looking for "a job, any job." Those applicants are not going to be the five-star workers. Probably not even three-star. However, what you're asking for is someone who's at least 3-4 stars, like the submitter claims to be--hard working, competent, learns fast, trying to be professional, actually getting things done, has proven himself, and who has clearly become the go-to guy for these sorts of things.

You don't want a prima donna. Got it. And GP's grandstanding is pretty assholeish. However, if it was you who was in charge of his living or dying, he would be justified in his assholishness (if not in his method), because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't pay him what he was worth. And guess what? Between the two of you, you'll probably be the one who's wrong. Now, maybe the GP is really just trolling businesses and doesn't know Jack Schitt. On the other hand, what he suggested could easily come naturally--because in the big push before a launch, people can get burned out and actually need that kind of incentive to stay instead of being reamed up the ass. And all you just did was screw him out of both fair pay for his current work, and future employment. Thanks.

Re:Bad, Bad Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554296)

and, you think YOU are irreplaceable? Unless you are the owner, you are just one among a million nickel-a-dozen "delusional dumbass" manager...

This guy is not flamebait (5, Insightful)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554374)

He's spot on. He could have phrased it more delicately, but honestly you could use a little shaking up.

That's what your job has evolved into, and that is the pay. Arm twisting will accomplish nothing for you except a quick trip to the street. They're broke. You've already said so. That's why they're laying off all the people you've replaced and have no budget for staff.

You try to go oil drilling with these guys and you won't get a thing except a fresh new bullseye on your back.

My advice? Talk them into a title change only. Emphasize you're not digging for a raise, but you'd like something to reflect your new duties. Get your new impressive title, then bust ass for the next 3 months to get settled in with your new title. Then get your ass to careerbuilder and craigslist and use your new fancy title to negotiate a better job. These guys are garden variety passive aggressives PHBs that will continue to dump on you until you break. Ditch them.

Re:Wait until 1 month to launch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554068)

100% correct.

Here's what will happen if you go to them after launch. They will tell you that it is a "temporary role", and you'll be getting back to your "real" job soon.

You have leverage now. Use it or lose it. That's the way of the world.

Re:Wait until 1 month to launch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554120)

"More money or I go" - and "a HOT intern to bang!"

Amnesia an option? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554012)

Amnesia? Do you recall what a LAMP is for? I think they are used to shine light on the book I'm reading.
Tell them you aren't happy with the changes and that you'd like a normal work week in the job you were hired. Be prepared if they elect to have a different idea, so hopefully, you've saved 12 months of living expenses.

You don't want to work at a place that fires people for standing up for their needs as humans.
You need to not work all the time.
You need to have a family life and life outside work.
You need to be fairly compensated for your skills and work. Anything above the original deal (offer letter) is a chance for re-negotiation, which you are happy to entertain.

That greener grass over the fence is better than being an over worked ox.

Re:Amnesia an option? (4, Insightful)

GaryOlson (737642) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554060)

Work your 40 hours, leave. Prioritize your work; don't do everything they deem "required". If you do not treat yourself like a human being, the company won't either. If the company does not see the value of your contributions now, they never will. Find a different company.

Re:Amnesia an option? (4, Interesting)

bbernard (930130) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554114)

I'd advise having an exit strategy in the works. Start interviewing because there is no better time to negotiate a new job than when you currently have one. You don't want to work for a company that is willing to "knowingly" take advantage of you. If you're comfortable with your management chain, bring this issue up to them.

Under no circumstances "threaten" to leave, or tell them that you've got a new job and want them to match salaries, etc. Get yourself an offer you like, and then start negotiating with your current employer. If you tell them you're looking at leaving or that you've got a new job offer, their motivation will only be to placate you until they can replace you. If you "work with them" on aligning your salary with your tasks you've got a better job at keeping a long-term relationship with them.

Otherwise, find a better job opportunity and take it.

You have one option... (5, Insightful)

masdog (794316) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554014)

Dust off your resume and start updating it. You probably won't get more money or a new title unless you threaten to leave. At that point, they'll look to replace you anyway, so you might as well find a new job.

Re:You have one option... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554146)

Yeah, if you are in the USA, you stand no chance. Our country is spiraling downwards and vanishing as an organized capitalist economy, and soon the United States will be just hordes of unemployed living in shacks, so there is no hope left (except if you get a job for the Census, but that happens every 10 years only...)
And by all the symptoms you telling, if I was you I would be looking for a new job because seems that company is probably going bankrupt very soon. They fired everybody, you accumulating 5 functions with the salary of half one, they going Amazon cloud shit, so they don't even got money for their own servers and colo.
So, run while you still have money for the gas, and drive Canada or some place that is not crumbling down to poverty like the USA.

Re:You have one option... (1)

Crudely_Indecent (739699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554184)

My only modification to your suggestion is to be even more proactive about the change of venue. I recently changed jobs and gave my previous employer exactly two weeks notice (to the minute)

Believe me, if they're willing to require 80 hours a week from you, they will be more than willing to say no to new terms.

More Information Needed (2, Interesting)

fat_mike (71855) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554020)

How long have you worked there?

What's your education level (do you have a degree)?

How is your relationship with your boss?

Do you have another job offer you could use as leverage

I don't know why the first post above got modded zero because unfortunately the AC is correct. Its nothing personal.

If they can't afford to complete projects then it is very likely they can't afford to give you a raise. Then again you are essentially exceeding your job description. If they hired you to write and then asked you to also edit other articles, that's one thing but they're asking you to take on a whole other role in a different department. I am curious though, how much does a writer for a blog site pull down?

Quit whining! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554026)

Be happy you have a job. With an attitude like yours it is unlikely to last long.

Umm, yeah.... (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554032)

Umm, yeah... I'm going to need you to come in on Saturday.

Just ask. (2, Informative)

MrCrassic (994046) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554038)

You and your client need web servers to launch the site. It's as simple as that. Tell them that if they can't afford cloud-based hosting, the alternative is a local solution that YOU (or whoever you hire) will be fully responsible for, from software maintenance all the way down to help desk support. Make sure they know that this is MUCH more expensive (because you WILL charge them accordingly for this, right?) and is not recommended (because I hope you value your time).

If I'm reading the problem right, I find it very irresponsible that the client went ahead with a website redesign project without thinking this far ahead. I hope they didn't rely on you to provide everything, because that definitely tells me they were looking for someone to abuse.

Either way, you need to be confident and ask for what you want. At this point and with this predicament, it would be more expensive and less wise for them to find some cheaper, so you have the leeway to do this.

I speak for the rest of us freelancers when I wish you good luck in getting it done!

Re:Just ask. (1)

MrCrassic (994046) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554046)

Forgot to add: ask with respect, but don't be shy about it.

Give up. (1, Redundant)

bistromath007 (1253428) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554052)

You don't seem to understand how modern "capitalism" works. When your boss said "we don't have the budget," he meant exactly that. If you push for more money, or even just ask, if they're really antsy, you'll be filing for unemployment.

Re:Give up. (3, Insightful)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554124)

No, what his boss meant was that after the company gives said boss a huge bonus for "cost savings"(read working his people into the ground while essentially adding no value of his own), there is no budget left. If the OP threatens to leave then all of a sudden from somewhere(read boss's undeserved bonus) money will materialize.

Work, like much of life, is really a game of chicken. Thats why always advisable to have a large amount of savings, and if possible, a spouse with a good job. That way, when the boss dumps work on you without giving you a pay raise you can balk at his (almost certainly idle) threat to fire you.

Re:Give up. (2, Interesting)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554328)

If they dont have the money to pay this person, they certainly wont have the money to pay the 2-3 people that they would likely have to hire to replace this person.

If I were the person and I truly knew the company was cash strapped I'd accept things that arent immediate money... like stock options, extra vacation time, setting your own hours or telecommuting for some of those 60-80 hour weeks. The latter could save you huge $$$ in terms of gas expended commuting.

Standard fare, complex situation (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554062)

Company hires person in low-to-moderately paid job. Responsibilities and workload increase. Salary does not rise to certified-external-hire level. Details to follow.
Basically, this is what happens regularly.

Now, where to go depends on how you assess your position.

Firstly, does the company tend to give people promotions and raises informally, kind of like a surprise, or is it a structured process? Both can happen, but companies mostly only prefer one.
In the former case, there's a 1/3 chance it's coming and they want to see how you handle things - in this case you could drop some very small hints. It's a 1/3 chance they have forgotten about it - in this case you could drop some very small hints, and you might get it. It's a 1/3 chance they simply don't care.
If it's a structured process, you are obviously not getting it without banging the table.

Because your odds are slim, let's consider banging the table. If you do this, you should be very aware that it COULD lead to you not working there any more. In the eyes of the bosses that be, you used to do one job (marketing and writing) and you are doing less of that and more of another, which does not qualify in itself for a raise. So consider - how employable are you? How easily could you get a job if you needed one? If the answer is "pretty good" and "pretty sure", then that's great. I should point out though that online content producers are usually 15 a dozen (in my view) and what you can hire interns for cheap as chips - so if you MUST move, could you find another job doing that at your current salary? To be honest, 'writing articles for a webpage and setting up facebook and twitter' sounds a bit weak for a full-time well-paid job if it's a small company.

You could also ask for an agreement that you will do ONLY this from IT and then no more IT tasks. But in that case you also risk not working there any more - because there might be a reason you have been asked to do more IT instead of articles. If they tell you "well, we didn't like your articles to be honest, but we feel you can add value doing IT", would that crush you completely? Would you be able to face them again?

Lastly, you could ask for a title upgrade only. This is the safest bet. What you decide for the title would A) let you find a better job elsewhere than you otherwise could, B) let you influence somewhat the path (e.g. the title 'Head of IT developments' may land you interviews for other jobs than 'Online Production Manager' C) your title itself should act subtly to influence whether you get more or less marketing/IT tasks going forward.

So the answer is, it very much depends on the details that only you know.

What's the big deal (1)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554064)

If you have a some kind of a periodic performance review coming up (you do have those?) that would be a good time, but there is nothing wrong with just walking up to your boss and asking for a raise. Be professional and realistic about it, after all whatever the answer is you'll still be working there so you don't want to be hostile. Understand that your relationship with your employer is just about supply and demand, nothing personal. If they can pay you less or else replace you with an equally qualified person at a lower cost they should, and they will. If you can find another employer who will offer you a higher salary, you should etc. I remember during the dot com boom, I could practically change my job monthly and get a higher salary each time. In this economy though, they are probably in a stronger position than you.

That's easy (1)

GreatBunzinni (642500) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554078)

First of all, you have to meet your bosses realizing that there are pretty good odds that you will walk out of that door without a job. After all, if you don't want to lose your job then you are in no position to demand a better deal and let's face it, if they are firing people left and right of you then they surely don't intend to keep you for long.

Knowing that, the scenario you painted leads to believe that your bosses rely on you to pretty much do everything remotely related to a computer. That, along with the fact that they have fired pretty much everyone capable of doing what you do, indicates that you do have a decent bargaining power. After all, if they fire you then they will be left with no one to man the ship and good luck finding another poor bastard that is willing to do all that work while being down on the corporate totem pole and while being paid your salary.

Based on that, just be straight forward with your demands. Inform your boss that, based on your new responsibilities and roles, you would like to get a raise and a promotion. Expect your boss to shovel a hefty load of crap when he turns down your offer. If he doesn't budge then just tell him that you quit and therefore let him a) reconsider your demands or b) start looking for yet another poor bastard to dump your work on, which will never manage to do as he will be even more overloaded than you, or b) see his pet project grind to a halt at least for the next 2 to 3 weeks, while he desperately tries to find someone who is willing to be paid peanuts while shouldering all that work.

Ask for it. (5, Insightful)

nordaim (162919) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554084)

I've been in this situation more than once. Each time it happened I worked with my direct manager to figure out the best solution whether that was a higher salary, better benefits (vacation, flex hours, compressed work week), or other, more ephemeral, perks like a new job title. Of the 6 times I was in this situation, 3 of which were at one company, I only walked once.

However, in order to be able to walk that meant I always had an escape plan. Even when I was elated about a job and would go home floating on cloud 9 there were always options in the back of my mind of where I would go. I continued to job hunt: sending out my resume, talking to HR at another company, or networking with friends in the industry at least once a week. Plus, even when my budget was tight, by force of will alone I kept an emergency fund that would let me float for a while without racking up my credit cards.

Never let yourself get in a place where a company, or anyone for that matter, can take advantage of you without recourse.

Re:Ask for it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554206)

Excellent comment.

For me, I always manage my life a way that nobody cannot have any leverage on my life.
- unsatisfied with the company I work
- work too mutch and effort unpreciated
- under paid

I will change jobs, because working 40-50-60 hours for a company and being unhappy is bad for moral, life at home.
We need to manage our jobs like a company.

When you don't do your job or they don't need you anymore, they will fired you.
Same thing in your case:
- work on your résumé
- job hunting
- network with ex-colleague, etc

If you meet your boss and don't have a Plan B....he may show you the doors
Reason: nobody like to be pushed on the wall

My opinion

This isn't going to end well for you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554090)

The BEST outcome is that you talk to your manager, explain what's happened, he agrees, and migrates your pay to be more role-appropriate. However, the chance of that happening is VERY low. A company that would respond well to that would also have migrated your pay along with your responsibilities.

Have you heard of a BATNA before? Its called a "Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement". Basically, if your negotiations fail, what do you do? You only have two options: 1) continue the job; 2) find another job/quit. You need to know which of those is your strategy. From there, start playing the game.

Here's what I'd suggest:
* Don't document anything. Obfuscate all the stuff. Don't write down passwords. Yes, it sounds dickish, and I wouldn't have said this a few years ago. My tune has changed.
* Hold them hostage. Another posted suggested bringing this up when they're a reasonable distance out from the launch date, but still committed to the path. Excellent advice. If you wait until launch+1 day, you've lost your negotiating position.
* Ask your manager to prioritize things. Managers hate doing that because it makes them make a decision. Write down all the tasks, and always say, "which needs to be done first?"
* Leave at 5pm. Just stop what you're doing, get up, and walk out.
* Be prepared to walk. Offer to come back 1099. You'd be surprised how many companies do this.
* Offer to split your job: W2 is your marketing job, 1099 is your outside work. Know the difference in pay rates and times.

Keep in mind its the company's job to hire the best people at the lowest wage--your goals and their goals are counter to each other.

They will fuck you over the first chance they get (as if they haven't already). Its your job to defend yourself in both hours and time.

Good luck.

i, uhhh, concur (2, Insightful)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554094)

Of course my other thought is that I'd much rather go back to writing and working with marketing than getting back into IT.

Wrong thing to say to this crowd. Although, honestly, I completely agree with the sentiment and feel that you'll probably be better off in the long run if you do that.

And another bit of advice: don't even think of trying the pseudo-blackmail suggestions that have been modded up so far. You'll find yourself out of work before you know it.

Re:i, uhhh, concur (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554220)


Like when the boss orders you to start doing other people's jobs because he knows that the job-market is thin and you probably won't quit?

The boss doesn't say it that way. No, he is much more polite and indirect just like the OP should be when he asks for more money.

Re:i, uhhh, concur (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554238)

And another bit of advice: don't even think of trying the pseudo-blackmail suggestions that have been modded up so far. You'll find yourself out of work before you know it.

Right now he's getting leaned on by his company. Hard.
His departure, voluntary or not, will kick the legs out from under their IT dept.
What this means is that he has leverage.

How is saying "give me a raise or replace me with at least two other people" pseudo-blackmail?
You think the company will save time or money by firing him and then bringing two new guys up to speed for a much higher combined salary?

I would just find a new job (1)

taskiss (94652) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554104)

I'd find a new job and negotiate a higher salary, then turn in my 2 weeks notice. If you want to accept the probable counter-offer you can, but don't be surprised if it's not forthcoming in this day and age.

No matter how important YOU think you are, it's their opinion of you that matters where wages are concerned.

Re:I would just find a new job (2, Insightful)

Algan (20532) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554200)

Never accept a counter-offer. Chances are that they will replace you as soon as they can afterwards. If you're still considering staying there, ask for a raise before you put in your 2 weeks notice. If they value you, you'll get it.

Don't be a pushover (1)

supertrinko (1396985) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554132)

Being employed is not a case of "you're the begger, they're the chooser" They require a service, you're providing that service. If they require more out of you, then they're going to have to give some more. It works well for them if all their employees believe that the employer is the one with all the power. But they need you more than you need them. Without employees, the company will fail. Make them realize they need you, if they're really putting as much responsibility on you as you say, then they do need you.

It's different Now for Corporations & Individu (5, Informative)

gink1 (1654993) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554150)

It seems that ever since this "Great Recession / Depression" started that a lot of things have changed.
Our Fearless Leader has been trying to convince us it's all over now, but the EU would no doubt disagree!

The outlook for Corporations has improved though and some are hiring key people they can find now for some slots (but pay is not too good).
For most though, they have learned they can make a lot of money without their former staffing.

So individuals are doing more, often much much more for the same or less money. Grab a better position if you can, but it might be tough to get the next one. DO NOT do what a friend did and quit before securing the next position. Several of my Professional friends have been out for about 2 years now. I can't understand how they are surviving!

I was quite fortunate to find an Engineering position right at the start of the Recession and have held it.
It's a great position - great work, learning many skills and much programming.
After putting in the required long hours, I actually received commendations for my efforts.

I received a raise after that, but my manager told me he had to fight tooth and nail to get me 3%.
It was eye opening and after reflection, I consider myself quite lucky.

The #1 Goal of ALL Corporations is to maximize profits. Why wouldn't they take full advantage of the current employment situation?

what is said and what is true (5, Insightful)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554386)

I received a raise after that, but my manager told me he had to fight tooth and nail to get me 3%.

This is a pretty common thing for managers to do. Give you the minimum they think you'll accept, and say they went to the mat "for you". Right. It *might* be true, but I seriously doubt it.

Movin' on (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554152)

Move on to another company.

If your current company hasn't increased your compensation to match your duties and responsibilities, they never will. Given they are reducing operating costs, they may just say "goodbye" when you ask for more money.

Good luck.

Do your research (1)

oddTodd123 (1806894) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554162)

Do some research and get good estimates of what people doing your job(s) in the area earn. Figure out how much you are worth based on how much time you spend doing each of these jobs and sit down with the person who has the power to give you the raise you deserve and present your case. You'd be surprised how willing most bosses are to give you a small bump to keep you happy, especially if they know you are being overworked. On the other hand, if this company is going through budget cuts and layoffs and can't afford to hire the right people for the job, you might be better off keeping your mouth shut, updating your resume, and shopping for a new job.

Don't hold your breath. (1)

oneiros27 (46144) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554164)

A few years ago, I started a new job -- I was hired to do a small task, expected to take 6 to 12 months (government contracting). At the time, I had been unemployed for 7 months, and so had taken a lower pay rate, thinking it was an easy job, and I'd use the tuition benefits to continue work on my master's degree.

My second day on the job, someone quit and I got handed his task. My third day on the job, in a meeting w/ HR for the company, I was told that if my job changed significantly, they could get me a promotion. I told her that it had already happened. She must've thought I was joking as *nothing* was done about it.

Every couple of months, I brought it up with my manager. (mind you, my manager didn't deal with my tasking -- it's government contracting, so the ATR (civil servant) tells me what to do, my manager only dealt with making sure we were complying with contract requirements and HR issues). I had meetings with my manager's boss, and I think at one time even his boss. It was nothing but a run-around.

They told me they couldn't do anything 'til the annual raises. When I got a 7% raise and bitched, they acted like I should be grateful. I stayed on as I knew the contract was up for rebid. (and told my manager and ATR that if the company I worked for won, I was quitting). It dragged on something like an extra 6 months because of one of the losing companies bitching that it was unfairly awarded.

Of course, the sub-contractor that I was passed off to said they didn't want to re-negotiate anyone's pay, and it took my ATR and manger (now working for the new prime contractor) telling them that they needed to make an exception for me, and that I should get a 20-25% raise.

Because of my being difficult, I got less than a 20% raise (they had said they wouldn't hire me unless I gave them a paystub, but I had blacked out all of the amounts that could've been used to calculate my pay rate ... I missed the 'year to date' amount, and they didn't know I had gotten a raise 2 months before, so they had thought they were offering me a 22.5% raise.)

In the end -- it was 2 years to get the issue resolved. If I hadn't switched companies, I don't think it would've gotten changed, as L-3 Communications was absolute dicks to me on the issue the whole time.

So, the moral of the story -- if you approach them, and they don't do something about it quickly -- walk. Well, line up a new job first -- if they start giving excuses as to why they can't do anything, start looking for a new job, as it's a sign they don't care.

Do way you can in 40 hrs (4, Insightful)

hellfire (86129) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554180)

Take a few hours to basically put together a report of how long all this is going to take and over estimate. Overestimating is important here. When you explain this to your boss, don't say I can't do blah, say this is what I can do. They may ask for more, say that's impossible. When they push, and they will, give them a little, just enough to cut into your overestimate then hope they take it. If they push and try to make you do 60-80 hours, you are fucked. Dust up your resume. But if they accept your logic and push the schedule or hire someone then logic wins.

Your company is fucked right now. They somehow got into a situation where they need to meet a goal without proper resources. So they are trying to squeeze you for all they can and you let them. The above is what you should have done originally. Now that they saddled you with this they are glig to blame failures on you. You always need to know what you can and can't do. They have no money to fulfill your requests but if you push back politely you might find something. However I doubt this. If they were good managers they wouldn't be in this situation.

Be very careful (1)

mmmmbeer (107215) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554182)

Sounds to me they've already dumped some "important" people to let someone unqualified (no offense intended, but that's how it seems) do the job. I doubt they'd be too troubled about doing it again. It's true you might be able to get a little extra if you demand it right before a deadline, but you'll also end up out of a job right after the deadline, so I wouldn't suggest that. Your best option is to do your homework, then tactfully broach the subject. By doing your homework, I mean find out how much someone doing your job can expect to make at similar jobs in your area. That gives you justification for why you should be paid more. You could also put out some feelers about whether there are jobs available; but be careful, because your company might not want to keep you if they think you're going to leave. Anyway, once you've done that, approach them with an attitude of "we need to renegotiate my contract." This is important. You do not want to simply state that they need to pay you more; that would make them defensive. You also shouldn't approach it like you're begging for money, because then you're putting the decision entirely in their hands. Instead, come with a list of changes you'd be interested in seeing: title, money, underlings, etc. Much like buying a car, you want to aim a little better than you expect to get, so you've got room to haggle. Be firm but not aggressive or offensive; remember that you are selling a valuable commodity. If you do this right you can earn their respect and make them feel you deserve more; and you'll probably get both a small to medium raise and a better title.

Run! (1)

codepunk (167897) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554186)

Look if they do not have enough money to employ a proper admin it is time to cut and run.

Blah blah (1)

clinko (232501) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554188)

Blah blah blah. That's what I just read.

1. Float some resumes.
2. Call out sick when in interviews
3. Pick the new job you like. Haven't made it to step 3? Stop bitching.

Life isn't that hard.

You've created your own problem (1)

Rantastic (583764) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554198)

I was originally hired as an Online Content Producer to write articles for a company website as well as start up the company's social media outlets on Facebook and Twitter.

Now that we're closer to launch the company has informed me that they don't have the budget or staff in place to set up the web server and have tasked me with setting up the LAMP and Zend App on an Amazon EC2 setup.

This is where you tell them, "gee, that LAMP sounds like fun... As a writer, while I seem to be ok at some of this ad hoc project management, I really don't know the first thing about setting up a linux whatever server. Do you think I could get some training?"

If they are simply demanding that you figure it out and get it done. Just do your best while updating your resume and finding a new job. A company that plays this game will never give you a raise. In their eyes, the mere fact that you could take on more work, while getting your original work done, means you were being overpaid to begin with.

Re:You've created your own problem (2, Informative)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554312)

have you not heard? The economy sucks! No one is hiring!

Ask for it? (1)

dindi (78034) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554222)

Sounds easy, but sometimes it can be hard.

Ask for it. If some BS answer comes up, tell them, that they are saving on others' salaries, and that saving could benefit the ones taking over extras.

Either way, if you cannot ask for a raise for more work at a company, what kind of future are you expecting there? I guess you do not want to retire from there, because you would be making the same $$ in a management role with a title that does not match.

Of course, if you are feeding a family where jobs are scarce, you should just suck it up and wait for something better.

However, asking for a raise is not a bad thing in the eyes of most management, if they know you work a lot and do it well.

Just my 2c.....

Much more to consider (1)

whosaidanythingabout (1144725) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554240)

First, do you enjoy working there? Second, do you see this as a place you would like to work for the long term (say greater than 5 years).I think that these answers will dictate your action.

If the answer to both is no then you should immediately brush up your resume and find another job.

If you answered yes, then you should document your situation. Be sure to compare what you were hired for and what you are currently doing. Also include the hours required to complete the tasks in your expanded scope. If everyone there is working 50-60 hours on salary you will not get much sympathy for the extra hours. When everything is in place go to your manager or boss and be sure that he/she understands how much your job has changed. Presumably everything your are doing is important to the companies current goals. Asking for "mo money" is up to you but don't demand unless you have a secondary plan (such as a nest egg or other job offer). You will actually be doing a sales presentation as to why your job is worth more to the company. Done correctly the manager will get the hint without directly asking for a salary increase.

Sometimes one has to pay dues to reap the benefits later. You will have to assess, based on your managers response, as to what those future benefits could be and how the situation might change. This approach will give you and the company time to sort it out; give it a month or whatever you are comfortable with. You always have the option of deciding the answer to the above questions is no and at that time you can begin your job search in earnest.

Same as anything else... (2, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554254)

This is the most basic part of being employed. You walk into your manager's office, close the door, point out how many new, important, and unwanted responsibilities you now have.

How confrontational you want to get is up to you, and largely depends on how willing you are to quit. You can take the soft approach, and just say you think a raise is in order, or else you'd prefer to relinquish your new duties, and sit quietly, hoping he comes back with a reasonable figure. Alternatively, if it's worth playing chicken with your job, you can name a figure, and be intractable when he tries to say how little money they have, and names some lower figure instead.

Personally, I'm a bit more of a pain in the ass... I don't believe in arm-twisting my employer every time they should be doing the right thing. If they can't figure out I've done a hell of a lot for them, and compensate me appropriately, I'm finding another job ASAP, and giving my two weeks' notice. Of course that invariably results in a counter-offer, but I simply turn them down flat, since they've shown their lack of respect for me every day up to that point. They're probably just looking to keep me on for a couple months, until they can find and train someone a bit cheaper, and then fire me without warning. Continuing to work for an employer who isn't doing good by you, without having to be asked (or threatened) constantly, is idiotic.

Career path (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554258)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking openly and honestly about your career path with your boss. It's practically the #1 thing he's there for. The text goes something like this: "I took this job because I believe in the company and want to help it accomplish its goals. I come to work every day ready to do whatever it takes to help the company achieve these goals, and can point to all these responsibilities that are far outside my job description to back that claim up. I will be honest with you, though, I took the job I did because working in IT is not my passion. It's not what drives me. When I was working in IT I felt frustrated and unfulfilled. I still believe in the company and still want to help, but I need your help. I need you to show me what my career path looks like from here. Where is all this work taking me?" There are some general answers to expect: The company will get the resources on this timeline. If that's the case, you can point out that they should report to you. You can also make a point of asking on a weekly or monthly basis how the company's plan is proceeding. You might get a response that basically says "I can't show you a path." That's a very honest thing to be told, and the sign of a great manager. That's his way of saying "If I were you, I'd find another job." That's not his fault, it's almost certainly a decision being made above his pay grade. You might get a response that says that they need your technical skills a lot more than your human skills. This usually leads to a frank talk about what the compensation package would generally look like if you went this way. If it's good, then you're being offered a lot of money for a job you'll hate. If not, then the best answer for all parties is for you to find another job, and possibly help them find someone with a real passion for IT to replace you. It's also worth thinking for a bit ... does the company have a CTO? Does it need one? Do you have what it takes to be that CTO? Also, how much do you trust this company to repay your hard work? How much visibility do higher-ups have into your situation?

Don't threaten and stay positive even if you are heading out. Honestly helps as long as you are being honest about positive things - what you want, what the company needs, what the company can offer.

Horizontal drift (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554266)

I think I recognize this story, most likely they got other people that can be an Online Content Producer but probably no one to be their web/IT-guru. So you get squeezed into that role, but do you know what happens when the times get better? They hire more writers and you don't get to return because you're the one that knows all the systems and everything. Trust me there's always some immediate concern which means they need you and your institutional knowledge even though they say it's only temporary. The part I'm not so sure of is whether you'd just like better recognition and pay for it, or if it's that you don't want to do it, because you got limited playing room and can't pursue both at once.

If you want to move up, at the very least go to your boss and say that with all the responsibility you're taking you'd like a better title, but then you're pretty much branding yourself in the direction you say you don't want to go. If you really want to be a writer, then maybe having that on your CV isn't such a bad thing even if you did lots of other non-writing activity? Wait for the economy to get a little better then get a job that actually matches your job description. I don't think being a little honest with your employer hurts either, that yes you can manage the job but this is not the sort of work that makes you happy. Managers with a clue will understand what this means, you have the professional ethics to do it but you'll be leaving for another position if this goes on. And even if you have a bad manager, they don't like to cut important staff either because normally during a downturn they don't get to rehire, so lots of headache for them making things go round. Except the even more irrational ones, but then you probably don't want to work there anyway...

Why work for a company that's about to go belly up (1)

Giometrix (932993) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554294)

I don't understand why you'd even consider staying at a company that seems to be going down the gutter anyway...

You seem to be a valuable employee; if it shined through on Slashdot it'll shine through in your resume and interviews. The economy's not THAT bad, start sending out your resume because this job isn't going lead you anywhere good.

Get Real (1)

gabeman-o (325552) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554304)

Everyone has job responsibilities that exceed their original job description. Your choices are to either wait for your annual review and ensure that you get recognized/rewarded or to look for a new job. If you start asking for a raise, don't be surprised if you find yourself out of a job. If choose to look for a new job, your resume will be a bit beefier. Tread lightly.

no easy path (1)

Nite_Hawk (1304) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554308)

At least from my experience there is no real easy path. Every significant pay raise I've gotten has been because I've applied for and accepted a new job. Sometimes with the same company and sometimes with another. The most bizarre was the transition from my previous position to my current one. Basically I wanted a 20% raise because I was being significantly underpaid. The only way for me to get it was to apply for another roughly equivalent job at the same organization, stop all work on the projects I was doing, and start working on entirely new projects. I was hired into the new job and got my raise, but the organization had to replace me and ended up paying the new guy what I was asking for anyway. The kicker is that he more or less ended up starting over from scratch and a years worth of work was thrown away. No one batted an eye at any of it though. These days it just seems to be the way things are done. If you want to advance you have to keep moving and not stay anywhere too long. Perhaps some day I'll find a place where they want to keep employees and find ways to let them advance in a saner manner, but I haven't found it yet.

Look for a new job and see if they will counter (2, Insightful)

rlh100 (695725) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554340)

After asking for a raise and being refused, go look for a new job describing your current skills. When you find one, ask for what you think you are worth. You will likely get close to it. Take the offer back to your current company and see if they will match it. They would be idiots to not match it, but they will probably be idiots.

The job market is expanding at this point. Go for it.


Get a new job (4, Insightful)

spiffmastercow (1001386) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554354)

The only way I've ever managed to get a proportional raise was to get a new job. Companies don't like to give out raises, and prefer to hire someone for more rather than promote from within. It's ass-backwards, but that's the way the world works.

Too late. (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554356)

First you give a long list of add-on responsibilities you got because the company doesn't have any money. Then you ask us how to get more money. The question answers itself, really.

Yes, it's not fair. Yes, it would be stupid of them not to do their best to hang onto you, now that so much is dependent on you. So what? Tech companies, especially tech companies in trouble, are not known for their fairness or smarts. No matter how you go about asking, there can be only one answer: "the money's just not there."

Not that it matters. This company is clearly circling the drain.

Leave (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554358)

Just leave. A company that pulls this stuff is the typical short-sighted, narrow-minded organization that wants one person to manage their websites, support, network, database, and everything. It's never worth it to deal with idiots like this. Let me guess, it's a small company right? Probably family-owned? Your boss is probably a nephew/son/brother of the owner, right?

You can't win a situation like this. The company has already proven that it can't value talent, and doesn't care about employees because they shovel about 5 or 6 different jobs on one guy, without compensating him appropriately. This kind of bullshit only happens in IT; you'd never see someone try to get their Accounting department to also do Sales, or Marketing to do HR. But in IT, people are so clueless that they will hire one person to be a programmer/dba/sysadmin/helpdesk and pay them the lowest salary of all the jobs combined. Or, worse, they'll advertise for an "IT Manager" or "Director of Technology" and then you find out that you're the only person in the department and you're responsible for everything.

Nervous breakdown (4, Insightful)

dsoltesz (563978) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554362)

This is a nervous breakdown waiting to happen.

Listen to the folks telling you to slow down and prioritize. Have a friendly talk with your boss about a promotion to go with the new responsibilities. Ask for help (even if you do not need it) from your boss prioritizing your responsibilities so you can get the most important things done in your 40 hours... this discussion will accomplish several things: your boss will understand exactly what and how much you have on your plate, you make it clear working more than 40 hours long-term is not desirable, hopefully some of your shit tasks get delegated elsewhere, and finally, you get some important satisfaction knowing you are making an effort to get control of the situation. Frankly, it sounds like you are on a sinking ship. If so, make a plan to get off the boat voluntarily.

If the situation does not improve, this is headed a very ugly direction. Stress can destroy your health, and burnout can last for years (perhaps a lifetime). I don't have words to describe how painful and destructive stress and burnout really are. Just take my word for it: Don't go there.

Ask, and always keep an eye out for another job (1)

khchung (462899) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554370)

I was handed the role of pseudo project manager to make sure the developer stayed on course with the project's due date.


Needless to say I want to ask for more money, as well as more resources (as well as a better title that fits my roles), but what is the best way to go about this?

You have been in the role of PM, so you got to have enough people skill by now, why don't you "just" go ahead and really ask your boss for more money? Of course, I understand it is more than "just" go and ask, you need to be prepared, that's where the 2nd part comes in: always keep an eye out for another job.

Without keeping an eye on the job market, you wouldn't know how much you can get from another job. "Keeping an eye out" doesn't mean you apply for any job that looks like a match, but you need to know what people pay for someone doing what you have been/are doing now.

Equipped with knowledge of the market, you can honestly and confidently approach your boss and say "I have been doing role X for the past Y months and it seems I will continue to do so in the near future. I think it would be best if my job title and compensation would be adjusted accordingly. I understand that in the market, role X usually pays around $XXX-XXX. It would be acceptable to me if my pay is adjusted to similar levels."

If your boss say no, accept gracefully and end the meeting, no need to argue. DON'T play any tricks or sabotage your work. Do your job as you always had, that's what being "professional" is about. BUT actively seek another job immediately, and make no fuss about it. When you found another job that pays what you want, jump ship ASAP without regrets. Don't waste time with your current boss even if he offers to pay more now, he has just proven to you that he won't be giving you any raise unless you leave, you wouldn't want to do that again in 2-3 years' time.

What if you are unable to find another job that pays what you want? That means you really are asking too much. Either reduce what you have asking for, or accept your current job with the understanding you are not underpaid.

Whatever outcome, you will have no need to resent your situation anymore. That will be good.

Just ask for a better title (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32554380)

Don't go for more money, go for a better title. Vp of something. How can they deny it? Does not make sense. This will make you better suited to find another job and they will know it and will likely pay you more money when they can afford to.

However, if you do not want to do IT then you should just find another job.

Focus on promotion, not a raise (1)

carlzum (832868) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554404)

If the company is reducing staff, asking for a raise won't go over too well. If you can find a better offer, take it or let your current employer counter. Don't expect anyone to pay you more if no one else is willing to. Use this opportunity to improve your skills and demonstrate your value to the company. Again, if they don't give you what you're worth, another company will.

You're not alone, fair or not, all companies expect employees to continually improve productivity. The ones that do are retained, those that can't are not. The job market is cut-throat, out-perform your peers, keep your skills sharp, and make sure your resume is up to date and being seen.

Strategic Incompetence (1)

Zorlon (181163) | more than 4 years ago | (#32554422)

You need to read Scott Adams' "The Joy of Work." If you really want to write articles and be in Marketing don't volunteer to do IT stuff. Clearly, your strategy of "quick and courteous service" (see page 40) is not working out for you.

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