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Ubuntu Replaces F-Spot With Shotwell

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the such-pretty-pictures dept.

Software 361

climenole writes "Finally! The much discussed F-Spot vs. Shotwell battle is over. The new default image organizer app for Ubuntu Maverick 10.10 is going to be Shotwell. This is a much-needed change; F-Spot was simply not enough. Most of the times when I tried F-Spot, it just keeps crashing on me. Shotwell on the other hand feels a lot more solid and is better integrated with the GNOME desktop. Shotwell is also completely devoid of Mono."

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who cares if it uses mon or not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560410)

so is it an ideological move or a technical one?

I don't know whether to comment on a tech site or daily kos

Re:who cares if it uses mon or not (4, Informative)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560700)

I just downloaded shotwell from the PPA in the blog and here is my little test..

I made a folder with some random images. I put all the images in a sub folder and made another subfolder with an extra copy of one of the images in a different folder. I did this because this best represents my photo folder. It has lots of images in different places and some of them are the same image because an early version of f-spot messed it up.

I then loaded up shotwell and did an import, then got this error..

2 photos successfully imported.

4 unsupported photos skipped.
/home/***/Desktop/photo_test/blah/Screenshot-1.png
/home/***/Desktop/photo_test/blah/Screenshot.png
/home/***/Desktop/photo_test/blah/Screenshot-3.png
/home/***/Desktop/photo_test/blah/Screenshot-4.png

The 2 photos that it successfully imported were the same photo. F-Spot has a feature to not import the same photo twice even if the filename differs which is handy. For me this is no where near f-spot technically.

It can't even import PNGs. What use is an photo manager that can't import images..

Re:who cares if it uses mon or not (4, Interesting)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560742)

just had the same experience. png support will be added in 0.6. it's kind of ridiculous, but whatever, it's in 0.x. also going to fullscreen and then back appears to totally fuck the interface (ubuntu lucid).

also: no way (?) to zoom into images.

I don't know if I like the event paradigm. They should combine it with a date-based view like f-spot. My pictures are a combination of daily snapshots and events. Also I'd like a "random crap from the internet" dumppile which is totally separate from my life... Kind of like keeping Playboys away from the family photo album. :-/

um who cares? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560418)

So the summary is just copy/paste from some blog.
Gnome made the change, not Ubuntu.
That version of Shotwell has been out for well over a month.

This is not news, for nerds or for anyone.

On the other hand... (5, Insightful)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560420)

Shotwell on a other hand...

For fuck sake, editors.

EDIT!

Re:On the other hand... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560446)

Slashdot "editors" are not so much editors as they are submission acceptance monkeys. 95% of a Slashdot "editor's" job could be replaced by a simple script. The other 5% is incompetence on such a massive scale that no script could ever hope to duplicate it. Case in point: kdawson.

Re:On the other hand... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560490)

I though "/.editors" was a script?!? You mean there are real editors somewhere?

Re:On the other hand... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560976)

Yeah, "/usr/bin/vi"

Re:On the other hand... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560448)

Wait, you only have one other hand? oO
Hah!

Re:On the other hand... (1)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560462)

Chill, dude, he could be speaking ebonics or maybe he has more than two hands... It just doesn't seem PC to dis alternative grammar.

Re:On the other hand... (1)

KingKiki217 (979050) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561180)

On the gripping hand, Slashdot is an american website, and we all have two hands.

Re:On the other hand... (5, Funny)

lexDysic (542023) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560544)

For fuck sake, editors.

EDIT!

You must be new he... wait, your UID is 5551? And you're complaining about this now?

Sir, I am in awe of your patience. Carry on.

Re:On the other hand... (1)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560612)

It was just an egregious example of dense error mismanagement.

That and I was feeling grumpy. I haven't had my geritol yet today. :P

Re:On the other hand... (5, Funny)

Improv (2467) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560660)

Pah. People with four or less numbers in their UID are just a myth.

Re:On the other hand... (5, Funny)

ultrapenguin (2643) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560702)

really?

Re:On the other hand... (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560798)

What is certain is holders of 4 digit UIDs with a Sensayoomah(TM) are a myth.

--
BMO

Re:On the other hand... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561148)

It's "four or fewer", dumbass.

Re:On the other hand... (2, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560820)

>For fuck sake, editors.

"Trolling is a art" - Anonymous

--
BMO

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560426)

Where was this discussed? Are there links that describe the finality of this decision in greater detail? I had heard about the debate, but didn't hear about the resolution.

Re:huh? (5, Informative)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561066)

There is this discussion from 2009..
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-December/010173.html [ubuntu.com]

and this one from May 2010..
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2010-May/002569.html [ubuntu.com]

Apart from that I can't find anything about a decision being made.

If someone integrates F-spot into gnome..... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560436)

Shouldn't it then be named G-spot? If a program of such a name were to exist, would any male users be able to find it, let alone use it?

Re:If someone integrates F-spot into gnome..... (2, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560452)

Shouldn't it then be named G-spot? If a program of such a name were to exist, would any male users be able to find it, let alone use it?

G-spot [headbands.com]

Re:If someone integrates F-spot into gnome..... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560458)

Shot well... a well that you shoot into... I don't think any males in the FOSS community will be able to open the program, much less add files to it.

Re:If someone integrates F-spot into gnome..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560506)

No. But I bet it would be fun to play with the iPad.

Re:If someone integrates F-spot into gnome..... (5, Funny)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560726)

If it's got Mono, I'm not touching it. No wonder it's slow and tired.

Re:If someone integrates F-spot into gnome..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560992)

...would any male users be able to find it, let alone use it?

Thats why its called Fail-Spot not G-Spot.

Oh look!!! (-1, Troll)

theNetImp (190602) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560454)

they made a copy of iPhoto. iPhoto sucks so who cares?

Great, now get rid of XSANE (0)

British (51765) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560464)

XSANE should never be made available. The GUI is a complete mess, looking like something that belongs on the Amiga. Also, it has yet to work with a single scanner or webcam I throw at it.

Re:Great, now get rid of XSANE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560630)

already gone in lucid

Re:Great, now get rid of XSANE (2, Informative)

gslavik (1015381) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560706)

Works with my camera (Logitech 9000) and my scanner (Canon u1240n aka Lide30) without any issues. The scanner was a nice surprise because installing the windows drivers for that was voodoo. Yes, Canon and Linux, it just works (tm). (I really didn't expect it to.)

Re:Great, now get rid of XSANE (1)

lahvak (69490) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561006)

I have never tried it with a webcam (so far, I have not had a need to use one), but I have used xsane with a number of scanners, and I have never ran across one that would not work with it.

XSANE works - what alternative do you have? (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561104)

It's worked with all the scanners I have tried (3 different multi-purpose devices) without any trouble. It may not be the best piece of software in the world but it works fairly well - what are you going to replace it with? Or should users just go without completely until there is scan software meeting your standards? I can tell that if there was no XSane or equivalent I would not be using Ubuntu on any of my machines (currently 5 running various flavours of Ubuntu).

Re:XSANE works - what alternative do you have? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561208)

You can always install a scanning or image editing tool from the repositories. The stupid thing is that the NDIS tool is not installed by default so you need to use a different type of network to download a tool to get some wireless cards to work.

Re:Great, now get rid of XSANE (3, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561230)

XSANE should never be made available. The GUI is a complete mess, looking like something that belongs on the Amiga. Also, it has yet to work with a single scanner or webcam I throw at it.

xsane, or at least its libraries, forms the core of every scanner program for Linux worth using. The GUI is about the same as typical scanner programs released by manufacturers, which is to say it's weak but functional. Also, it has worked with every single scanner I have thrown at it for years and years... HP, Canon, Mustek... and I've been through about eight or nine scanners since I dropped Windows. In fact, my current scanner is an HP scanner for which there is no Windows 7 driver, the last release was on Vista, so the prior owners sold it. My prior scanner was another HP scanner for which there were no drivers after Windows XP. The one before that was a Mustek scanner which also last had XP drivers.

The plural of anecdote is not data, but you're outnumbered.

Re:Great, now get rid of XSANE (1)

Master Moose (1243274) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561246)

I thought they did. My last install of ubuntu I am sure excluded it.

Now in English (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560466)

"Finally! The much discussed F-Spot vs Shotwell battle is over. The new default image organizer app for Ubuntu Maverick 10.10 will be Shotwell. This is a much needed change. F-Spot was simply not enough. Most times when I tried F-Spot, it crashed on me. Shotwell on a other hand feels a lot more solid and is better integrated with the GNOME desktop. Shotwell is also completely devoid of Mono."

There, fixed that for you. Now it's in English.

Re:Now in English (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560480)

"Shotwell on THE other hand..."

There, fixed that for you.

Re:Now in English (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560598)

"Shotwell, on the other hand, ..."

There, fixed that for you.

Next on the list... (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560470)

A lightweight equivalent of MS Paint. GPaint for example has all kinds of flashy transformations, yet lacks something as basically necessary as edit "undo" and "redo" functions.

Re:Next on the list... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560542)

A lightweight equivalent of MS Paint.

Better: A lightweight equivalent of Paint.NET.

Re:Next on the list... (0)

zonky (1153039) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560602)

There is (sadly) a fairly dead looking project to get Paint.NET running on mono: http://code.google.com/p/paint-mono/ [google.com]

Re:Next on the list... (4, Informative)

jpobst (262199) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560690)

Not to toot my own horn, but that's Pinta (http://pinta-project.com/).

It's not ready yet to be a default application, but it's quickly getting closer. :)

Re:Next on the list... (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560554)

GIMP has undo + redo functions; they're pretty easy to find. What it's missing are straightforward straight-line and square/rectangle/circle tools.

Re:Next on the list... (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560666)

GIMP is awesome, but it dosen't really fit into the "lightweight" niche.

Re:Next on the list... (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560812)

What it's missing are straightforward straight-line and square/rectangle/circle tools.

I fear they're missing for deliberate-yet-inane ideological reasons. The functionality is there, accessible through hotkeys applied in nonsensical ways; the designers seem to think a button to draw a line or shape is... somehow an undesirable compromise. It's been requested for years, but never been added, even through major UI redesigns.

Re:Next on the list... (2, Interesting)

lahvak (69490) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561102)

The problem is, I believe, that majority of people using GIMP for image editing would not use these buttons (I use GIMP quite heavily, and I know I would never use them), so for them (us), such buttons would just end up cluttering already pretty complicated user interface.

People often complain about GIMP user interface, which in my opinion is pretty good. The main problem IMHO is that the user interface is not flexible or configurable enough. For example the toolbox. When I bought my actual toolbox, the kind that sits in your garage, it came with a bunch of tools. I tossed half of them out, and replaced them with other tools, more useful for the way I work. However, I cannot do that with the GIMP toolbox. The same with menus. There is no easy way to reorganize the menus. I would like to, in addition to the existing menus, create a menu that would contain all commands that I use on daily bases for photo editing. In another menu, I would put all the command for creating and editing certain types of mathematical graphs, and so on.

GIMP is very flexible and powerful program, but its user interface is rigid and does not allow you to easily use all the flexibility and power. Unfortunately, most people complaining about the GIMP user interface seem to want even more rigid interface, with a single window and some sort of MDI interface. That, IMNSHO, would be a huge step backward.

Stupid remarks (3, Insightful)

akanouras (1431981) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560476)

Most of the times when I tried F-Spot, it just keeps crashing on me.

Do we need such silly commentary?

I'm using Kubuntu btw, so I couldn't care less about F-Spot.

Re:Stupid remarks (2, Insightful)

anethema (99553) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560642)

Especially the weird shift between past and present within the same sentance.

Re:Stupid remarks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560728)

Especially the weird shift between past and present within the same sentance.

Maybe he wrote it from a DeLorean while driving at 88 mph.

Re:Stupid remarks (2, Funny)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560896)

Actually, that was intentional. He tried it several months ago and it's still crashing.

Re:Stupid remarks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560942)

What about the poor spelling inside the same "sentance"?

Re:Stupid remarks (5, Funny)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560692)

I'm using Kubuntu btw, so I couldn't care less about F-Spot.

Well, thanks for taking the time to post a comment in an article about a product you "couldn't care less about". That's very generous of you, and I'm sure we're all better for reading your insightful words.

Re:Stupid remarks (1)

SnEptUne (1264814) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560902)

Yeah yeah, on Kubuntu, it is called K-Spot.

Re:Stupid remarks (1)

calmond (1284812) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561052)

Yeah yeah, on Kubuntu, it is called K-Spot.

By extension then, in Gnome, shouldn't it be called the G-spot???

Re:Stupid remarks (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561140)

Yeah yeah, on Kubuntu, it is called K-Spot.

By extension then, in Gnome, shouldn't it be called the G-spot???

I don't believe it exists.

Re:Stupid remarks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561186)

I'm using Kubuntu btw, so I couldn't care less about F-Spot.

But why would you care at all if you're using Kubuntu?

(Protip: the phrase doesn't mean what you think it does)

Re:Stupid remarks (1)

The Infamous Grimace (525297) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561202)

It's a hell of a lot more relevant than yours - at least it expresses an actual experience with the software.

-Peter

Isn't it all about options? (2, Insightful)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560492)

Shotwell is also completely devoid of Mono.

I take issue with this last line. I LIKE c#/.net. If I get to use it in more places, this is a good thing.

Isn't the whole shtick about open source the fact that we get more options?

Re:Isn't it all about options? (1)

waambulance (1766146) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560532)

no. the whole schtick about open source is that its 2 clues shy of a boardgame and everybody wants to play. -0.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560534)

Shotwell is also completely devoid of Mono.

I take issue with this last line. I LIKE c#/.net. If I get to use it in more places, this is a good thing.

Isn't the whole shtick about open source the fact that we get more options?

I think the point here is that we get more options as long as its not Microsoft embezzled technology. I don't get the reasoning behind everyones anti-Mono stance, its an amazing feat to have an alternative .NET CLR implementation.

But if you really want it, just get F-Spot from the repos, having said all this, I'm glad Beagle was laid to rest several releases ago :-)

Re:Isn't it all about options? (3, Informative)

ie2fleen (746200) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560546)

We all know that Mono is the cause of F-Shot's stability issues...right?

Re:Isn't it all about options? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560562)

Nobody cares whether you like programming in C#.

The question is whether people like having Mono installed on their system, and the answer is no. It's like requiring Java or Flash. Besides which, Mono will never be anything but a half-arsed implementation of what's available on Windows. We already have enough lame-duck copies of things on the Linux desktop. We don't need another one in Mono.

F-Spot was a pathetic attempt to justify the existence of Mono, and it failed miserably. Nothing else of any relevence uses it, so now we can move on. :-)

Re:Isn't it all about options? (4, Informative)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560998)

The question is whether people like having Mono installed on their system, and the answer is no.

No it's not. Ubuntu has never been a distribution for Free software activists. Ubuntu has always been about "linux for humans". That's why there is always fuss over the nvidia drivers, that's why they made a fuss over the firefox branding. If your primary concern is with freedom then you should be on a different distribution such as Gnewsense or Debian. Ubuntu however has always been about ease of use over making things difficult and just so we're clear here.. Both F-Spot and Shotwell are Free Open Source Software, it's just that some people don't like using mono.

The REAL question however is, does this new Photo Manager provide an adequate replacement for the Ubuntu user and the answer is "not yet". It doesn't import certain images, it imports duplicates, its UI is not that great compared to f-spot and it has less import/export options then f-spot. Regardless of how you feel about Mono it sucks for Ubuntu's target audience which doesn't care about Mono or C#, they care about if they can use it.

I think the only news worthy part of this is that it's a ridiculous decision that they're considering to switch to an inferior product by default. Add on the fact that they removed GIMP by default from Lucid it means that there will now be no way by default to edit images in Ubuntu for the next release that won't open in Shotwell. It's just completely stupid and I doubt Canonical will stick with this decision. Ubuntu is popular because they don't do this kind of thing.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560564)

Issues with Mono are the cloud of uncertainty due to the licensing. Basically that Microsoft can change things at a whim. Oh, and also that it is not a "write once run anywhere" platform.. Mainly due to the lack of a cross-platform GUI framework.. .NET is not Java.. (although I still prefer NATIVE applications over Java.. Something about them running faster?)

Re:Isn't it all about options? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32560592)

Sure, but why would you make such a bad choice? Why not use Java if you want portability? It's not perfect but at least you won't have the rug pulled under you when Microsoft reaches the third E with Mono.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (5, Insightful)

slimjim8094 (941042) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560604)

The concern is not so much about the language itself as with Microsoft. They've *said* they won't sue anyone using/writing for Mono, but since they've threatened to do some very similar things and I'm not so sure I trust them.

In any case, the intensity with which Icaza has been pushing Mono, plus his ties with Microsoft, scare the crap out of me.

So please, feel free to develop with it. But I'm not so sure I'll be installing Mono to run your app, because I try to keep it off otherwise.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (4, Interesting)

ratboy666 (104074) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561212)

There are a few developers who I feel indebted to. Icaza is one. I use Midnight Commander every day. I give these developers "the benefit of the doubt". Icaza is up there with Bram Moolenaar (VIM). VIM is more important, but MC also "gets it done". And has for almost 15 years.

So, when Icaza said "Mono is important", I tried to suspend my disbelief. And, it was difficult for me; the JVM also had a 15 year history for me.

I'm STILL trying to see it. I "dutifully" installed Moonlight into Firefox. I've tried F-Spot. But, there appears to be no broad-base support for the CLR, even now. No CLR support for Unix... To quote a Microsoft MVP

"Shinma,

I would not recommend trying to run .NET on a unix platform. While
there are attempts (there is a CLR based on a source project released by MS
named ROTOR, and there is also the MONO project), not all of the
functionality is there.

What are you trying to do? Which parts of the framework do you want to
leverage? I think that there might be an ASP.NET implementation up and
running.

--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]"

Now, MONO claims to have Solaris support, but I haven't yet tried it (can you get support for this from Novell?) And what about AIX and HP-UX?

JAVA supports these platforms, and so appears to be a more universal delivery system.

Was Icaza wrong? Maybe. It is possible that the CLR offers features that are not possible with the JVM (I don't know, the only thing I have personally done in this space is a COBOL to JVM system, and I haven't ever really looked at CLR -- after all Alchemy offers a commercial COBOL to CLR compiler already).

Now, I have never stressed F-Spot, but what I did try appeared to work just fine. I'm all for competition, and if the CLR is superior to the JVM, let it win! I just don't understand why it hasn't been pushed into the Unix space. Are IBM, HP and Oracle wrong?

Just curious on the thoughts of some fellow developers here. Especially from those companies. Some insight would be valuable.

Thanks, Ratboy666

Re:Isn't it all about options? (3, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560628)

Meh, as long as F-Spot and Mono remain in the repository, I have little issue with them moving to Shotwell if they feel it's the better product (for whatever reason, be it phantom legal issues, or legitimate stability issues).

Re:Isn't it all about options? (3, Interesting)

Boltronics (180064) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560632)

The real issue is with patents. Stallman wrote about this last year.
http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono [fsf.org]

Similar to WINE in a way, it's good to have an open source project to allow us to run more software. However, that doesn't mean that software developers should make their applications depend on them when specifically targeting a GNU/Linux environment - it's an unnecessary risk.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (2, Insightful)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560674)

I take issue with this last line. I LIKE c#/.net. If I get to use it in more places, this is a good thing.

Isn't the whole shtick about open source the fact that we get more options?

Open source is about options, true. So you're saying that Mono should be included as a required dependency in the base system of Ubuntu because you like it, but fuck all the people who don't like Mono for various reasons? This clearly isn't about more options. Leaving Mono "optional" is about more options.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (4, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560718)

> I LIKE c#/.net.

Someone always pops up saying something like this anytime Mono is mentioned. But if C#/.Net/Mono is so great why hasn't anything really great been created with it in all the years it has existed? Remember when Microsoft was going to recode pretty much all of their userland? yea right. Reminds me of when belief in the Java hype pushed Corel under as they thought they could write a cross platform office suite with it. So show me something Mono/.Net based that that is awesome and where the choice of platform was something more a technical than a political/religious decision.

But beyond that, the fact is we are talking about a technology controlled by Microsoft. Many people simply do not trust them, and for good reason. So using Mono to allow otherwise foreign code to run is unobjectionable. Creating core subsystems of the Free Software/Open Source environment isn't. Any distribution that breaks if Mono is removed is going to be unacceptable to a large enough subset of users that it simply isn't likely to happen in any of the top ten distros.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561042)

But if C#/.Net/Mono is so great why hasn't anything really great been created with it in all the years it has existed?

One could say the same thing about Java. There isn't a single decent client application made in Java. And by decent I mean fast, memory efficient, useful and stable. And it's not like Sun didn't try. .NET is a common framework (spanning many languages) for Windows applications, which delivers cross-platform features if you're willing to use Mono. And you can actually use it (and C#) to write usable client applications in any Visual Studio supported language.

Re:Isn't it all about options? (1)

mkendall (69179) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561228)

There isn't a single decent client application made in Java.

eclipse?

Re:Isn't it all about options? (1)

chgros (690878) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561004)

While I haven't used C#, from what I've heard it's vastly superior to Java; so I understand if you like it.
However, still from what I've heard, mono is a very poor implementation of .Net. For instance, the VM uses a GC designed for C, and apparently the library is not written especially carefully.

Picasa (1)

gsmalleus (886346) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560550)

Is Google's Picasa for Linux stable yet? I would much rather see a piece of free software from a company that will continue to develop it over the years and that is cross-platform. Seriously, isn't this the second or third time it has changed. They should use either software that is developed and supported by a major company (like Google's Picasa), or they should assign some developers to the project they choose and not change it.

Re:Picasa (2)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560596)

You're just walked square into the middle of the "free software" vs "open source" debate. Now they've got you right where they want you, there is no escape!

Picasa is free (and awesome) but not open source - so Ubuntu and Fedora will never ship it.

Re:Picasa (2, Interesting)

isilrion (814117) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560714)

You're just walked square into the middle of the "free software" vs "open source" debate. Now they've got you right where they want you, there is no escape!

Picasa is free (and awesome) but not open source - so Ubuntu and Fedora will never ship it.

I think you have it backwards. The "open source" crowd would happily use non-free software if they believe it is the best. The "free software" crowd would not touch Picasa. See this article [kerneltrap.org] for an example (jump to "bitkeeper issue").

You may be confused because of the two meanings of the word "free". It is sad that in the English language, the word for a concept as great as "freedom" is the same as the word for the meager idea of "no cost".

Of course, there are several shades of grey in between the two camps, but that is the main difference.

(That said, neither Ubuntu nor Fedora are very strong supporters of "free software"... specially not Ubuntu. It wouldn't surprise me that one of them decided to include picasa)

Re:Picasa (1)

ajlitt (19055) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561264)

No. It's still wrapped in Wine, and it's still flaky.

Curing Mono (3, Insightful)

Improv (2467) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560650)

I'm always glad to hear about mono being used less on Linux.

Re:Curing Mono (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560762)

I believe there is a cream that can help.

Re:Curing Mono (0, Insightful)

tick-tock-atona (1145909) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560778)

I'm always glad to hear about mono being used less on Linux.

Yup. I've got nothing against people using it, but I completely agree with the FSF [fsf.org] and would never use or install Mono myself.

We've still got people like Horacio Gutierrez (Corporate Vice President and Deputy General Counsel) making statements like this [microsoftontheissues.com] :

...smartphones are a product of the ‘open innovation’ paradigm – device manufacturers do not do all of their development in-house, but add their own innovations to those of others to create a product that users want. Open innovation is only possible through the licensing of third party IP rights, which ensures that those who develop the building blocks that make a new technology possible are properly compensated for their investments in research and development. After all, technology just doesn’t appear, fully-developed, from Zeus’s head. It requires lots of hard work and resources to create.
...now the industry is in the process of sorting out what royalties will be for the software stack, which now represents the principal value proposition for smartphones. In the next few years, as the IP situation settles in this space and licensing takes off, we will see the patent royalties applicable to the smartphone software stack settle at a level that reflects the increasing importance software has as a portion of the overall value of the device.
(16 March 2010)

Do you still think Microsoft will allow competitors like Google (Android) and Nokia/Intel (MeeGo) to use Mono's .NET implementations for free?

Re:Curing Mono (5, Informative)

PixelSlut (620954) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560970)

Yes, I do.

Microsoft has a lot invested in a lot of things other than .NET, so I think you're making a really large leap here to assume that they're talking about .NET here. Every major software company out there has invested into different things, and they'll protect their IP up to the point where it no longer benefits them to restrict it.

It's in Microsoft's best interests to allow people to use .NET and C# everywhere, period. They've already stated that they're applying the Community Promise to their patents so that they won't sue people over them.

Mono, the framework, is fantastic and it's really sad that RMS and the BoycottNovell tards are spreading so much FUD over it. And that some of you here on Slashdot are perpetuating that.

Last year at the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit, Cody Russell [gnome.org] asked Richard Stallman if there was anything that Microsoft could do to ease his fears of patent threats, and he said that there was. Microsoft could come out and publicly state that .NET was open to use and promise not to sue people over it. Days later they did exactly that [technet.com] and Richard did not change his opinion.

Re:Curing Mono (0, Flamebait)

Osty (16825) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561126)

Last year at the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit, Cody Russell asked Richard Stallman if there was anything that Microsoft could do to ease his fears of patent threats, and he said that there was. Microsoft could come out and publicly state that .NET was open to use and promise not to sue people over it. Days later they did exactly that and Richard did not change his opinion.

Your mistake was assuming that RMS will ever change any of his views regardless of facts. The man is a relic and should be treated like one -- ignored.

Re:Curing Mono (1)

grcumb (781340) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561122)

We've still got people like Horacio Gutierrez (Corporate Vice President and Deputy General Counsel) making statements like this [microsoftontheissues.com] :

...Open innovation is only possible through the licensing of third party IP rights, which ensures that those who develop the building blocks that make a new technology possible are properly compensated for their investments in research and development. After all, technology just doesn’t appear, fully-developed, from Zeus’s head. It requires lots of hard work and resources to create....

Mr. Gutierrez would do well to choose better classical allusions. He refers to the birth myth of Athena [wikipedia.org] , who sprung fully formed from Zeus' head, and uses it to explain how such a process could never happen with so-called Intellectual Property.

Athena was the goddess of knowledge and learning, and her appearance, fully formed, from the mind of Zeus was a deliberate reference to the nature of wisdom. So, in effect, Gutierrez has said, "Great ideas don't just spring fully formed from the collective mind, as described in this story about ideas springing fully formed from the collective mind."

Hate to tell you, Mr. Gutierrez, but apparently they do. And have done throughout recorded human history.

(Yes, I know: his real point was that technology costs money. But that's what hardware sales and services are for.)

Re:Curing Mono (5, Insightful)

Seth Kriticos (1227934) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561060)

Yup. The first thing I usually do when installing Ubuntu now a days is:

sudo aptitude purge mono-gac libmono2.0-cil -y

This also removes F-Spot, Tomboy and Gbrainy, none of which I particularly miss.

Gqview (2, Informative)

phrostie (121428) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560686)

or what ever they call it now

Re:Gqview (4, Informative)

commrade (79346) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561238)

geeqie is what it's called under the new Author. Crappy name but it really is the best gtk image viewer.

Shotwell is beta (5, Insightful)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560870)

As much as I like having one less set of libs to install I have to say shotwell is way behind F-Spot on the usability front. I would say Shotwell needs another year to mature before it gets even near what F-spot is "now". Ubuntu is a key representation of Linux on the desktop and if users have to deal with a very beta experience of shotwell I dare say it wont reflect positively on Linux as a whole (I personally prefer Digikam over F-Spot).

Re:Shotwell is beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561132)

Keep in mind, the change is happening in the version of Ubuntu to be released in October.

Re:Shotwell is beta (4, Insightful)

datakid23 (1706976) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561240)

+1 for digiKam over either F-spot or Shotwell - one of the first things I do on a new machine for the relatives is to install digikam.

Features (5, Insightful)

lahvak (69490) | more than 4 years ago | (#32560940)

I have never heard about shotwell, so I went to its website (it would be nice if the article actually included a link to that). As far as I can tell, there are some important features missing from shotwell. Namely, there is no information about raw, integration with ufraw or another raw developing software, editing photos in external editors (GIMP), or running external filters on photos.

Also, it does not seem to have as many export options as f-spot.

I am definitely not happy with f-spot, and always keep looking for a replacement, but so far I was unable to find one, and, as far as I can tell, shotwell with its current set of features is not going work for me.

Re:Features (2)

Will.Woodhull (1038600) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561134)

I too am unhappy with F-Spot. It seems to always be the most awkward place in my workflows, no matter what I am doing with the images.

But it sounds like shotwell would be moving in the wrong direction.

Anyone here familiar with F-Spot's performance wrt upgrades? Can we expect improvements in F-Spot at a steady pace, or is it a moribund project? I'm thinking that the next version of F-Spot might be closer to what would make me happy (Could we get a Linux version of IrfanView? I don't suppose IrfanView would run under wine in a way that would play well with GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender... but has anyone tried this?)

Re:Features (1)

vjoel (945280) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561252)

(Could we get a Linux version of IrfanView? I don't suppose IrfanView would run under wine in a way that would play well with GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender... but has anyone tried this?)

IrfanView does run well under wine. In fact, it's one of the few useful windows programs that does, in my experience.

But I can't speak to how well it plays with others.

Re:Features (2, Interesting)

JanneM (7445) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561138)

There also seems to be no support for hierarchical tags or for having many tags in general, just a linear dump of all tags you've got. Not so much fun when you have tags in the many hundreds, and when you want one tag to actually generate two or more tags in the final taglist.

And little to no support for having multiple versions of an image; the only thing seems to be this: "Shotwell stores your edits in a database and applies them on the fly as necessary.". Which is great fun, I guess, if your original image is a 300Mb MF film-scan and you have to wait for 30 seconds while edits are applied whenever you want to see another of your versions. In fact, doesn't this feature pretty much preclude using external tools altogether?

F-spot is pretty stable for me by now, and it can cope with the amount of images I have in a way that no other organizer tool I've tried on linux can. There's a few missing features still - a "light table" mode, where you can collect and compare a set of images directly would be great - but it works fairly well if you have to keep track of a largish number of images from very different sources.

Linux 'purity' religious views strike again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561080)

Why crap on about MONO AGAIN..!!! ENOUGH.. (yes the f-Spot is a JAB at MONO..)

If your so anti-patent... Try and use your linux box without:

* DVD
* H264
* Blueray
* MP3
* etc etc etc etc..

Or the other stuff which is stolen/questionable in origins.

If people don't want MONO.. simply uninstall it.. Just like they can uninstall/install DVD/MP3/etc etc..

But don't go pushing your BIASED 'pure linux religon' onto everyone else..

Linux is a great OS.. And I wish it all the success in the world, but with idiots constantly complaining about MONO, but not other patents is just proof of double standards.

Re:Linux 'purity' religious views strike again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561256)

Mono's a slow boggy piece of shit like Java from 10 years ago.

That alone should be enough to rule it out.

Fedora 13 already replaced F-Spot with Shotwell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561114)

Good, I hated F-Spot (2, Insightful)

kuriharu (756937) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561166)

F-spot makes duplicates of my photos. Good riddance! One copy of each pic is enough, thank you!

Fedora 13 did it first. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32561206)

The latest Fedora release, 13 [fedoraproject.org] , already has Shotwell enabled [wordpress.com] . And the good package maintainers help getting the experience right the first time, too.

Yet another application rewritten in Gnome... (3, Interesting)

Per Cederberg (680752) | more than 4 years ago | (#32561266)

As long as developers keep rewriting apps from scratch every 2-3 years, they'll never become truly stable or usable. And they won't progress much beyond tech demos or the basic feature checklists.

When will we see true progress in integration, usability or features?
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