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Project Natal Renamed 'Kinect'

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the i-had-those-when-i-was-a-kid dept.

Microsoft 286

tekgoblin writes "Many people gathered for the opening of E3 to see Project Natal. When they entered they were told that the new name of Natal is Kinect. Kinect is going to be the new way to play. It is going to be completely controller-free. You can browse your dashboard with the wave of your hand."

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I'd rather hear about a next gen console (3, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564050)

It's a shame that MS and Sony seem to be investing all their efforts into jumping on a motion controller fad that's already fading fast (seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?). Meanwhile, MS is on the verge of breaking the 5-year rule with the 360, with Sony soon to follow--with no next-gen systems in sight. Both consoles are already showing their age--especially the 360 with its DVD drive, already necessitating several multi-disc releases.

I know there is a recession on and all, but the 5-year rule has held through recessions before. It even held during the early 80's console "collapse." Every day these systems age is another day that PC gaming starts to look more and more attractive to many of us gamers. And I really don't want to go back to PC gaming. But I also don't want to be playing on a console that's viewed more and more as a "toy," rather than a serious gaming platform.

I know that MS and Sony want to capture the casual market, but it seems misguided to me. Wii already *has* that market, and a knockoff copy of their controller probably isn't going to change that. Meanwhile, they risk losing the gamer market and ending up not pleasing anyone (by trying to please everyone).

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564084)

Why don't you want to go back to PC gaming? It's better anyway. I have tried various consoles over the years and console gaming sucks.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564166)

Because I chased that rabbit for too long in the 90's. When the Xbox 1 came along, I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading (or worrying about the latest pain-in-the-ass DRM) to keep up. Ditto for the 360 and PS3. PC gaming is superior in many ways, no doubt. But it can also be a huge hassle.

And please don't give me that "You don't *have* to upgrade, you can just ramp down the settings on the latest games" argument. Yes that's true. But we all know that most self-respecting gamers *hate* to do that. No one likes to be the guy with an out-of-date system not getting the full experience of the game.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (4, Insightful)

gazbo (517111) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564218)

So you don't want to play on a PC because you don't want to keep upgrading, so you want console vendors to release upgrades for you to buy. Interesting.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (4, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564258)

When I was a PC gamer, I had to upgrade a lot more often than every 5 years. My credit card company can attest to it ;-)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Insightful)

nschubach (922175) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564438)

I don't know if I'd say you "had to upgrade"... I'm sure there was more "want" in there. ;)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Interesting)

xSauronx (608805) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564440)

agreed. my issue isnt the constant upgrades...but I sold my video card recently and bought a used PS3. im not as good at console games as at mouse./keyboard stuff on the pc but i can adjust, im *SICK* of the DRM restrictions on pc games. all i play on my pc now are old, old games i still have around, or titles under $10 from steam. Im not going to pay $50 and $60 a game anymore to get jerked around if my internet connection is acting up or get hassled in any other way.

I know several people with PS3s....none of them bitch about the thing.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564792)

Just because you did this doesn't mean to say that you had to do it. If you look at the PC gaming stats [steampowered.com] you will see why the midrange graphics settings in games get called 'mainstream'. Only a third of people play at 1680x1050 or greater. It is because most people have fairly basic setups and they do not follow the perpetual upgrade path.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (4, Insightful)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564842)

So what you're saying is you prefer less choice because you can't reign in your spending habits?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Smegoid (585137) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564396)

That's a little disingenuous. Given the console is 5 years old and this is the first significant and, dare we say, optional upgrade. It's really not so bad. Particularly given that people spend upwards of 300-500$ for video cards (double that for SLI) and they do this much more often that 5 years. Let's not get into the motherboards that have to house these puppies. Hell, people's PC cases are more expensive and upgraded more often than their consoles. I've upgraded my computer twice since the xbox launch. I'm sure I'm not a minority there.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564538)

Dont forget with a console you're buying a TV, usually much more expensive games and add-on devices and a significantly less powerful machine.
Things have slowed a little now that most PC games seem to be designed for the capabilities of the consoles. Even a modest
PC with an average modern graphics card can do the 720p that most console games output at these days. When they go much higher
the consoles suffer from severe framerate drops unless they reduce render quality.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564696)

Dont forget with a console you're buying a TV

One TV that up to four people can share in a game like Bomberman, Power Stone, or Smash Bros. Compare to PC, where too many popular games follow the handheld pattern of needing a separate PC, monitor, and copy of the game per player.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564404)

If you read his original comment, he said he thinks these controllers are a waste of time.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564282)

Thanks but I'll stick to playing my games in beautiful 1920x1200 on my PC, not the bullshit resolutions of most console games. That's called getting the full experience, because I can actual use the true resolution of my display.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Interesting)

Mashdar (876825) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564302)

I have not changed any part of my computer (OK, I may have swapped the RAM out when I was building my HTPC) for over two years, and can still play any game I've tried on high settings. Oh, and I built the thing for under $800. The processor is still plenty powerful. Maybe I'll pick up a new video card in another year or so, but it will be a ~$150 one. Only crazy people are "having to constantly be upgrading". My advice: don't be cheap and buy a $50 video card expecting it to last indefinitely. Do some reading before you buy your parts. And don't think that 200fps with 32xAA is the bare minimum. PS WoW plays fine on my netbook.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564598)

Only crazy people are "having to constantly be upgrading"

I take it you're not a grinder. I'm not either, but I do understand grinders. The same people that get a huge kick out of games designed around endless repetition, will be equally addicted to the game of "buy the top of the line graphics card the day its released". They don't have to do so for any reason, other than enjoying the grind itself. So trying to explain to them that they "DON'T REALLY HAVE TO GRIND VIDEO CARDS" is futile, because what they enjoy is the process of grinding itself.

In comparison, I'm mostly a wargamer/strategy gamer. Obviously I can't play games like that on consoles because they don't sell games like that for consoles. But my pusher matrixgames.com keeps me well supplied with new games, and we'll assume for the sake of argument that consoles sold strategic wargames... Much as I appreciate a good 3 dimensional perfectly timed combined arms attack, I enjoy timing my game PC upgrade purchases so optimum motherboard price decline occurs simultaneously with optimal CPU pricing at the same time as a video card price drop. I'd miss all that upgrade scheduling fun if I had a console instead of a PC. Also as a wargamer, I care a hell of a lot more about screen size and resolution than I do about frame rate, but video card marketing price segments solely on frame rate, so even if I because a "video card grinder" my optimum card is probably not the optimum (and expensive) card for a frame rate grinder.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (3, Insightful)

bluesatin (1350681) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564450)

And please don't give me that "You don't *have* to upgrade, you can just ramp down the settings on the latest games" argument. Yes that's true. But we all know that most self-respecting gamers *hate* to do that.

After admiring the new purdy graphics on most games for about 10 minutes, I usually go back and turn the graphics way down to make sure I have a steady FPS; I get so immersed in games after about 20 minutes of gameplay I don't notice whether or not my shadows are perfectly smooth around the edges.

As long as the graphics aren't absolutely terrible to the point where it's distracting, I'll be happy playing on the lower settings.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564482)

tbh i've been playing pc games that have been released for 1-2 years, and I;ve found that I can typically pick them up for between £5 and £15. Steam has also got in on the act by typically dropping the price of XXX 1, just before XXX 2 is released. Because I'm playing games that are slightly older than cutting edge, it means the graphics card/pc i need doesn't have to be cutting edge.

Whereas console games are £30-40 and the graphics probably aren't even as good

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564724)

Steam has also got in on the act by typically dropping the price of XXX 1, just before XXX 2 is released.

A lot of console games go in the bargain bin once the sequel comes out, but then (especially in the case of PlayStation family consoles) they kill the old version's multiplayer matchmaking servers.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Bobakitoo (1814374) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564518)

You got the same pain-in-the-ass DRM with console. At last with PC, you can patch the software to fix the problem. Also you are constantly upgrading your console, every 5 years exactly, you trash it all and get a new one. Except this time there is no upgrade option for you as you expected. And this is why you are mad... there is no "upgrade hassle" for you to pick this year. Why are you complaining? This is exactly what console promissed, finaly delivred.

By your definition, console are out-of-date system from day one. But nobody noticed it because there is not setting to ramp down on console games.

We have reached the maxium of what graphics can do for gaming immersion. Peoples want better way to interact with software. I agree with you that Sony and Micro-Soft new controls are late game gimmick. But, since they are not making new consoles any soon it might be succesful.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

AlizarinCrimson (1548857) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564600)

This is silly, a console costs what 200, 300 dollars now? The only upgrade a gaming PC usually needs these days is a graphics card, which wow cost what 200 to 300 for a decent card? Yes DRM can be a be a pain I'll grant that.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564776)

This is silly, a console costs what 200, 300 dollars now? The only upgrade a gaming PC usually needs these days is a graphics card, which wow cost what 200 to 300 for a decent card?

Graphics cards aren't a game's only system requirement. A PC from the fourth quarter of 2005, when Xbox 360 was launched, might not have the CPU and RAM to run newer games. And most titles still need separate PCs, monitors, and graphics cards for players 2 through 4 in your household, though now that HDTV has become popular, this is starting to change with the inclusion of HTPC support in the PC version of Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564740)

I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading

You understand that there are lots of us that like to upgrade our systems. We keep a big part of the computer industry alive.

And regarding "controllerless" gaming, I just wish the console people would instead spend more time and money making games that feel as smooth, natural and personal as Half-Life 2 or Doom. The current third-person puppet-shows that seem to dominate gaming are starting to really get on my nerves, where you wonder why your character can't seem to figure out how to jump over a 2-foot high box and keeps using it for cover instead. In my experience, consoles are good for racing or driving games, and a few fighting games and that's about it. Even worse, the least attractive parts of console gaming are starting to infect computer games. So not only have consoles not advanced gaming technology, they've actually hindered it in some ways. I own a PS3 and there is potential, but the industry seems to be going through a phase where they're just not that interested in providing really great gaming experiences. It's all marionettes and button-mashing.

Indie game selection (3, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564810)

When the Xbox 1 came along, I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading (or worrying about the latest pain-in-the-ass DRM) to keep up. Ditto for the 360 and PS3.

You might be right about major-label games. But I don't see how the original Xbox or any PlayStation console has a selection of independent games comparable to the PC. Due to console development overhead, games from small studios always come to the PC first if they ever come to the consoles. And some kinds of games will never come to Xbox Live Indie Games on Xbox 360 due to XNA limitations [pineight.com] .

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564530)

Why don't you want to go back to PC gaming? It's better anyway. I have tried various consoles over the years and console gaming sucks.

Better as in, download new vga and sound drivers for every new game, suffer horrible framerates if your rig is not build in last 3 months and you want to play latest and greatest 3d fps. Take constant care of your system (xp + firewall + antivirus + antispyvare) and if not lucky reinstall xp once in a while. Suffer unfinished and unfinishable games, waiting months for patches so you can play farther. Play with mouse and keyboard only, gamepad and joystick support in pc games is almost nonexistent.

Pc has it's share of excelent games, so has Xbox 360, Wii, Ps3 and every other gaming device created but when you talk how pc gaming is superior you only deluding yourself.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564532)

The DRM on new games is obnoxious and offensive. In the last 3 years, I've only bought games from gog.com. Not exactly cutting edge stuff.

My Caesar III gets 1200fps.

At least with the consoles, you don't have to worry about what rootkits^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H drivers any given disc is installing. Only signed kernel patches.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564834)

At least with the consoles, you don't have to worry about what rootkits^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H drivers any given disc is installing. Only signed kernel patches.

Unless the signed kernel patch "fixes" a jailbreak that your favorite homebrew game depends on.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (3, Insightful)

rotide (1015173) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564796)

I use to be a die-hard PC gaming fan. Then, to be honest, I grew up. Gaming to me is now about relaxing and enjoying my free time. The last thing I want to do is worry about framerates on the latest game to hit the shelves or the DRM they incorporate.

I simply want to sit down, turn it on, hit play, and be playing. Standardized hardware is awesome for this ability to always be great hardware for the software I purchased.

Now, I will admit that PC games have the ability to be _much_ prettier and I still can't stand FPS games on a console (keyboard/mouser), but for _any_ other game, the console is just a no brainer for me. It's just so easy to go to the store and pick up the latest AAA title and enjoy it.

Maybe PC gaming as a whole is better for you, and I'm happy for you. But I'd argue that your opinion is not universal fact, "It's better anyway.".

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (4, Insightful)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564116)

The software industry may have a hand in keeping the next gen of consoles at bay. Considering that most of the high-graphics high-profile games now have a development budget in the millions of dollars and require upwards of a year (sometimes several years) to create, game developers have seemingly reached the upper limit of technology they can currently handle before going financially or workforce bankrupt. It's not until they can create more art, level design and cgi with less time and ressources involved for the current generation that they'll be able to even consider going one step up.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564296)

That's a good point. Development costs (and the time involved) seem to be getting *way* out of hand these days.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564584)

Not really. They're now as big as big movies. Why? Because the sell a lot of games to make massive profits. Would you rather have major productions like call of duty4+, fallout3 or wii boxing and other cheap shovelware?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564422)

reached the upper limit of technology at 720p :)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

dredwerker (757816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564146)

Its a bit unfair to call it a knockoff of the controller seeing as there is no controller :) but I would prob agree with your general sentiment.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

ashridah (72567) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564168)

Uh, who made this "5-year rule" up, exactly? You?
Microsoft sure didn't. [engadget.com]

The original XBox had a life-span of about 4 years, not really enough time to recoup losses made. I'm not surprised that as the consoles get more expensive to make, that people want to push them out longer to make a reasonable profit on them.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564216)

If you go back and look at the release dates between consoles, you'll see that the 5-year rule holds going all the way back to the Atari VCS. The only exceptions are the 360 (at 4 years) and the PS3 (at 6 years). But even giving them 6 years, we should already be hearing about a next-gen 360.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564472)

Even if MS release a new console that doesn't mean the lifespan of the 360 is over. The PS2 is still having new games made for it, so it hasn't reached its full lifespan yet despite the PS3 being out. I think that's a pretty good thing as it caters to different segments of the market. Some people just can't afford a PS3 or 360..

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

EMR (13768) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564570)

Actually, the PS2 has no more games being developed for it. I was actually in a Gamestop a month ago and there were only like 5 games in the pipeline before the EOL of new games to the PS2. And I can not justify buying a PS3 ESPECIALLY with the recent barrage of Firmware updates and EULA changes that take away the rights of the owner of the unit. I'll pass..

(BTW, I love the tag line)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1, Troll)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564494)

But even giving them 6 years, we should already be hearing about a next-gen 360.

That's what is really surprising me...

Seems to me that we used to start hearing rumblings about the next big thing about 3 or 4 years into a console. I haven't heard anything at all about a successor to any of these machines.

One could argue that we've hit some kind of peak and it we don't need a new console because current hardware is good enough... But that just doesn't seem to be true. As the OP pointed out, games are starting to exceed the storage capacity of the 360's DVD drive. The PS3 just started shipping HDMI-ready... And both consoles are trying to bolt-on motion control features...

Seems like a fairly solid argument could be made for rolling out a new box sometime soon.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564620)

I really doubt we will see any new consoles anytime soon. I think, apart from Kinect, the only upgrade to the 360 wee will see is a bigger HDD and maybe a Blu-Ray drive...at a push

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564812)

The PS3 just started shipping HDMI-ready...

No, the PS3 has always had an HDMI port, they just didn't ship it with an HDMI cable.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0, Troll)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564878)

The PS3 just started shipping HDMI-ready...

No, the PS3 has always had an HDMI port, they just didn't ship it with an HDMI cable.

So... It's now shipping HDMI-ready?

PS2!!! (1)

nomorecwrd (1193329) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564536)

I still play with my PS2... on a 850x480 projector.

An incredible good console, way ahead of it's time when it came out, is still selling on par with PS3 and XBOX here in Chile.

Last game played: Guitar Hero Aerosmith
Favorite games: Black (cover ops), God of War II

I guess I will wait until PS4 comes out to start *thinking* about changing my console.



PS.... you can still buy the good games and use *backups* of the games you just want to try and throw away.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564288)

especially the 360 with its DVD drive, already necessitating several multi-disc releases.

Remember back in the day, when people thought "Holy crap! It requires multiple disks! It must be HUGE!"? Final Fantasy VII is the example that immediately comes to mind.

Besides, multiple discs aren't really that big of a deal. I agree, it's nice having everything on one disc, but seriously...is it that hard to change the disc out every 10+ hours?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564346)

The PS1's multi-disc games, towards the end, were getting to be a serious pain in the butt. They made you swap too often, mostly.

So while the current 360 multi-disc games aren't a yet a major pain, they will be before long. That, or they'll have lower-resolution videos and textures than their PS3 counterparts and will be ridiculed for it.

I'll admit, though... The current systems have lasted 5 years much better than the previous generations did.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564500)

on my pc I expect never to have to piss about with the disc once i've installed the game (so unlike on consoles, drm that expects a disc to be in the drive really pisses me off)

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564332)

Plenty of comments come to mind, including how a random /.er probably doesn't need to tell some of the biggest companies on the planet how to run their business. If you think the average 360/PS3 owner is in any way going to take up PC gaming, you're clueless. The consoles are going through a similar phenomenon as general computers, i.e., diminishing marginal returns on power. I just bought a 360 a few months ago, and the 'casual games' that my friends and I play would not benefit from more speed or graphics capability. There is no 5-year rule anymore, there just isn't sound business reason for it.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564344)

Egads, man, do you have no soul? Mario Galaxy 2 just came out! While the Wii doesn't have all those FPS games, it's difficult to imagine a person being a real gamer and not playing the flagship Mario games. Man, I miss the 80's. What exactly makes a headshot more valuable than kicking Bowser's ass?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564476)

Not to mention Madworld, Dead Space: Extraction, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Twilight Princess, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros. Brawl, Guilty Gear XX, No More Heroes...there are plenty of awesome games out there for the Wii.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564554)

That Bowser always was a smug jackass. You would think the royal family would have stepped up security by now though, wouldn't you? If the U.S. President was kidnapped, I would hope we wouldn't have to resort to sending a plumber and his brother to rescue him.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Karganeth (1017580) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564366)

I find it interesting that many intelligent people are unable to distinguish between the technology and experience in the Kinect and the Wii. One is a stupid tracker that follows one point in x y z and the other is a very advanced system of cameras that tracks YOUR ENTIRE BODY and doesn't require a controller. The technology and experience from using the Kinect are vastly superior to the Wii's. DO NOT GROUP THEM TOGETHER.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564544)

That's all well and good but it doesn't really matter when the end result is this [youtube.com] .

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

GrumblyStuff (870046) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564774)

They're both stupid trackers. The Wii just happens to be more couch friendly.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564368)

The idea for the Wii control system is good, just a lot of the games have been crap. Designing games around the controllers is a bit stupid too. Games work a lot better when the controller has been designed for the type of game than vice versa (ie guitar hero guitar or steering wheels).

The Sony system looks a lot more flexible than the MS one and so I have more hope that it can work with a broad range of game types. At least it should have buttons. I'm assuming the MS system is going to have to rely on various gimmicks when you want to select something or fire a weapon or whatever.. I don't want to play a game with an imaginary controller any more than I want to play guitar hero with a theremin (as per the video shown a couple of days ago). "Air" instruments suck.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

El Neepo (411885) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564372)

I'd rather hear about "minor" upgrades to the 360/PS3. While this motion controller may not be anything revolutionary when compared to the Wii, some people might find it fun and buy it as a totally optional upgrade.

The example of the 360's DVDs is valid but does solving that problem require a totally new console? There could be another optional upgrade to Blu-ray (I wonder why that isn't out yet) to increase disk capacity.

I'd rather have small ones too just because I'm not ready to buy a totally new console when good games with really good graphics are still coming out for my existing one.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564468)

I don't see any reason why Microsoft has to build a new console. Installation numbers are still growing, as is the number of games. I have a hard time remembering it came out 5 years ago, and I still play my 360 very often (when not playing PC games)
Certainly they should upgrade the console itself though. And they are. There's talk of the Slim, they've been making bigger hard drives (could you imagine having the 20gb HD for the whole 10-year cycle! Hah!), Natal (I refuse to call it Kinect) to bring in more casual gamers, and guess what? The graphics still look great. Why, exactly, do we need a new generation of consoles? Console gaming has changed, as of this generation.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564488)

There was an HD-DVD add-on drive [amazon.com] for the 360, but MS (foolishly, IMHO) restricted it to playing HD-DVD movies and didn't allow developers to use it for games.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Killer Orca (1373645) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564566)

Yeah, considering that releasing games in HD-DVD format would open up your market to current 360 owners again and if you released only in HD-DVD, which no one would do as it cuts down the number of potential customers further, publishers were smart to avoid releasing games in that format.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Midnight's Shadow (1517137) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564414)

I agree with the fact that the motion controller fad is fading fast but I have to disagree with needing new consoles. Yes the 360 is showing its age but the PS3 hasn't even been pushed to its extremes yet. In fact I'd argue that a new console would just do more harm then good considering the cost and time it takes to make a single game for either system. How much money and time will it take to make games for the next generation of consoles?

Sony should be focusing on making it easier and cheaper to make games for their system.

MS should figure out a way to incorporate a blueray drive onto the 360.

With these changes we might be able to get some fun (remember that fun?) games that all don't feel like FPS clones.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564432)

But I also don't want to be playing on a console that's viewed more and more as a "toy," rather than a serious gaming platform.

Uhmm... did you SERIOUSLY type this?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

alen (225700) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564454)

the big advantage about the 5 year rule was better graphics. the latest generation of consoles also had online built in. the whole motion gaming thing sounds cooler and worth buying rather than just better graphics

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564574)

I don't know about Microsoft, but I thought Sony announced in advance that they intended for it to be 10 years before the PS3 was replaced. Which means we have about... oh... 6 years to go.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564678)

And if their main competitor released a new console next year that blew away the PS3, do you really think that they would wait 5 years to respond? That was just PR talk (aimed at convincing PS2 users to upgrade).

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564580)

(seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?)

I doubt you have any numbers for that, since if you did, you would have presented them. There is no evidence that the Wii will lose its dominance four years into the console wars, especially since it continues to sell at a rate just a little short of the PS3 and 360 combined, and obliterated the PS2's one-month console sales record last December by more than a million units.

Personally, I find it disturbing how self-styled 'hardcore' gamers have managed to convince themselves that the Wii is, and always has been a disastrous failure, and repeat FUD to themselves (eg "the Wii isn't a true gamer's system", "waggle is a stupid gimmick", "nobody touches the Wii after the first few weeks", etc) until they themselves are convinced of it. Seriously, what would George Orwell say about a group of people that's willing to brainwash themselves into believing what people in power want them to believe without any prompting?

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (2, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564626)

Natal, or 'Kinect' is different though, unfortunately not many people seem to have the imagination capable of seeing why so far however and just dismiss it as a clone of the Wii's control system.

The fundamental difference with Kinect is it's controllerless nature. A lot of people seem to see this as some mutually exclusive thing, but that's simply not the case. There's no reason Kinect can't be used with existing control systems- this may for example mean observing the player as they play an FPS and allowing them to duck slightly to the left or right to avoid incoming projectiles, this may mean using the classic guitar hero guitar controllers whilst rocking out, or using the Lips microphones whilst dancing.

Not all of this is exactly groundbreaking but it's enough to add an extra layer of imersiveness to existing games that we just haven't had up until now- Wii games haven't been immersive because they've for the most party been outright crap, but where they haven't, simply haven't had the graphics capabilities to really draw you into the game world. Kinect means that the device can support even the existing hardcore crowd- they didn't like the Wii, but this system gives the option of going the full distance with brand new types of games on the Wii, or simply augmenting existing game types with features that can draw the player in a little more.

Move really is just a Wii clone, but even that has it's merits- it seems to be far more flexible and precise than the Wii, but importantly it's on a console that can simply do more than the Wii and which has a proven track record of developers actually making great games, whilst the Wii's game lineup still to this day leaves a lot to be desired with very little worth mentioning outside a few of Nintendo's first party titles. So even Sony's offering despite being much more a clone of the Wii's setup shows an awful lot of promise.

So all in all, I think these releases do in fact matter, which is not to say that I wouldn't like to see a new console iteration too, but I suspect people like you can me are in a minority- the 360/PS3 didn't really start selling until they came in at below £250, and I don't think that wave of purchases is over yet, I think people like us are probably a minority in being willing to splash £350 - £500 out on a new system just yet, and Microsoft and Sony having spent so much money investing in trying to outdo the other with their hardware this time round themselves probably want to soak up some profits before they start churning out that kind of system again. Besides, the PS3 and 360 still wow me with their graphical abilities to this day, and PCs still aren't really churning out anything more stunning despite them now being more powerful so there's not really a competition aspect for Sony and Microsoft there either.

On the upside, at least Move and Kinect will be well tuned and lessons will have been learnt by Microsoft, Sony, and 3rd party developers alike in time for them to be fully integrated components of the next gen consoles, the sort of thing that will then come as standard.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564722)

seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?

As of 10 AM ET this morning, the Will holds 11 of the top 25 slots - hardware and software - as best sellers in video games [amazon.com] for Amazon.com.

a knockoff copy of their controller

Natal was always much more than a knock-off.

Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (1)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564922)

no vendor lock-in problems like this, no poor quality consoles, why exactly are you not PC Gaming? You even get to use all 10 fingers to play games and not just your thumbs.

No longer Natal? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564068)

Maybe the project is maturing.

and to think (1, Troll)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564090)

they don't even own the domain name. Yet another fumble by MS.

Cue in fucktard sopssa trolling in 3, 2, 1, ... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564094)

Sopssa is a troll. Remember it moderators.

About Time (1)

MrTripps (1306469) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564096)

Natal sounded too babyish.

Re:About Time (1)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564184)

Natal was a name used during development to refer to a project which was not formed enough that a marketing meeting could be held to come up with a name which both sounded good to the marketers and described the product. Choosing a neutral name, such as the name of a city, during development is a good thing which keeps marketing-types out of developers' hair for as long as possible.

Re:About Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564462)

I'm not sure if you're making a joke or not.

(To those who aren't entirely sure what I mean here,

Natal -
1. Of, relating to, or accompanying birth:
2. Of or associated with the time or place of one's birth

The more you know! ===*)

Re:About Time (1)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564906)

"Kinect" sounds like something you do with your hot cousin.

Title of this article is wrong... (3, Insightful)

Osrin (599427) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564104)

Shouldn't it be - "Project Natal Named 'Kinect'"?

Re:Title of this article is wrong... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564686)

Content of article is wrong too.

It should be "wave of your hand."

I thought it was (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564110)

A mountain in Wales [wikipedia.org]

Personally, I wouldn't be showing off... (1)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564136)

Personally, I wouldn't be showing off images like this one [tekgoblin.com] , which clearly show either input delay or a lack of accurate mapping between human motion and character motion.

If I'm going to buy three iToys taped together, I at least expect that when I raise my arms over my head, the character on-screen will do something resembling the same.

Re:Personally, I wouldn't be showing off... (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564418)

Maybe the avatar can't lift his forearms all the way up. ;-)

Re:Personally, I wouldn't be showing off... (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564684)

It's hard to know what's happening without context of seeing it live or in video, but there are a number of other possibilities too- large scale projection equipment as being used here may have more latency than your typical smaller home displays, but also we don't know how fast the guys arms were moving, if it's latency it could simply be on such a low order that a camera can catch it in a situation like that but a human isn't going to notice or care when using it in person.

It's a bit early to be making assumptions based on a single image that lacks any real context though.

Kinect? (2, Interesting)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564160)

I wonder if they are trying to tie this in with their Kin phones by using this name?

No good (1, Funny)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564180)

They should have called it the "Mii Too."

Another Ballmer fumble and the chair goes wild! No points for team Microsoft!

Hmm.. (1)

tomp1000 (1364927) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564200)

i appreciate the pun for the name kinect (connect and kinetic merged) but i feel its a rather daft game however the controllerless gaming prospect is intriguing, id class it as 1 step closer to fully imersive virtual reality gaming

Re:Hmm.. (4, Interesting)

arth1 (260657) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564338)

i appreciate the pun for the name kinect (connect and kinetic merged) but i feel its a rather daft game however the controllerless gaming prospect is intriguing, id class it as 1 step closer to fully imersive virtual reality gaming

No, it has nothing to do with virtual reality. It has to do with reality. You physically swing your arm, not virtually. If you were to take that approach more steps, you'd eventually end up with real life. And the real life dangers too.

Yes, I look forward to virtual reality. Where I get freed from the limitations of my physiology, not subjected to them.

And no, it won't be the first time Microsoft has flopped with hand waving interfaces. Remember the three times touch screens were introduced (and re-introduced) as the best thing since sliced bread? And the gorilla arm syndrome?

Re:Hmm.. (1)

Killer Orca (1373645) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564592)

And the gorilla arm syndrome?

I'm pretty sure that occurred with the introduction of the Internet, at least in the male population.

Oy. (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564260)

Natal was an interesting name. Kinect is just...it's just freakin' lame.

I personally find it funny that while the Kinect hardware involves not touching anything, it's name is, by dictionary defintion, about two things touching each other.

Re:Oy. (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564380)

You can make a 'connection' to something without touching it.

I think they were going for a cross of connect and kinetic, meaning that you connection to the machine through your own movements.

I don't like the name, but at least it makes some sense, when viewed like that.

Re:Oy. (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564506)

That's really pushing it. I see where you are coming from, and ::slaps self:: I hadn't thought of that before...but still, that's really pushing it -_-;;

"Natal" is anatomical word for butt crack, really (1)

twisted_pare (1714106) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564268)

Having taken anatomy in college, I was immeadiately agast when the project was named Natal. I think someone at MS finally used the dictionary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natal_cleft [wikipedia.org]

Re:"Natal" is anatomical word for butt crack, real (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564370)

Natal also means christmas in portuguese.

Re:"Natal" is anatomical word for butt crack, real (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564646)

Kind of like when Taco Bell called their Chili Cheese Burrito a "Chilito"... look that up on Urban Dictionary...

Re:"Natal" is anatomical word for butt crack, real (4, Informative)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564726)

I hope you're not using that college degree for anything, because 'natal' is an adjective that pertains to birth and not a specific part of the anatomy.

Accuracy (3, Interesting)

accessbob (962147) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564276)

So this thing still has just one location for its camera? I don't want to be picky, but you can quite easily get side-ways on to the camera (think the tennis game of the Wii). Hw accurate is the mechanism at picking up hand movements partly, possibly, fully obscured by the body? QAlso, how accurate is it at measuring angluar rotation and wrist movement. Dancing and jumping around games are going to be fine (I guess), but anything that requires close observation of hand and arm movement is going to be a bit limited. Compared to "wand" technology, a single camera is going to be a bit limited in what can be achieved.

EyeToy (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564290)

Kinect is going to be the new way to play. It is going to be completely controller free.

So was EyeToy [wikipedia.org] 11 years ago. I'm sure other Slashdotters will/can find other earlier example.

Natal - Kinect (1)

Barefoot Monkey (1657313) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564352)

"Kinect". You know, I quite like that name. When I read about Project Natal I kept wondering if it could be used effectively as a low-cost motion-capture system. It would be wonderful if amateur/indie CG animators could (for example) model a character walking using nothing more than an XBox, Kinect, a treadmill and a tether.

Frist st0p (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564424)

to the 0rIginal [goat.cx]

train wreck in progress (5, Insightful)

tuffy (10202) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564426)

Whatever its technical merits, this just isn't going to work in the market. Game-specific console add-ons tend to work (e.g. balance boards, plastic instruments, etc.) whereas general purpose ones do not. This is because game developers are forced to either target the add-on with specific titles that take advantage of it, which relegates them to a small subset of the console's total base; or they tack-on support which rarely works well and doesn't help sell the add-on.

If Microsoft were serious, they'd release an X-Box 3 with motion-only support so developers can count on it and develop accordingly. But they're not, they won't, and it won't sell.

Microsoft has outdone themselves (4, Interesting)

Verunks (1000826) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564572)

Re:Microsoft has outdone themselves (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564734)

That's precious ... from when was this?

sahit!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32564654)

encountered while or mislead the Backwards. To the Ransom for their fate. Let's Not be Maintained that too Are looking very it just 0wnz.', [mit.edu] found GNAA (GAY NIGGER

Obligatory (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 4 years ago | (#32564784)

You can browse your dashboard with the wave of you hand.

These are not the droids you are looking for.

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