Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Sleeping iPhones Send Phantom Data

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the chatting-amongst-themselves dept.

Iphone 248

Stoobalou writes with a story that got started earlier this month when iPhone users in the US and the UK noticed that their phones seemed to be sending large data bursts via 3G overnight. (Providers are ending unlimited contracts, so iPhone users are paying more attention to how much data they are using.) The discussions began on MacOSRumors and an Apple discussion forum. Thinq.co.uk makes this guess as to what is going on, but doesn't offer much in the way of substantiation: "The simple fact of the matter is — as far as we can tell — that the iPhone's push notifications and other small transfers of data are totted up throughout the day and the total for all of those notifications is added up after dark and sent to your airtime provider while your phone is sleeping. If these tiny amounts of data were individually listed your bill would probably be the size of a telephone directory. The reason it is using the 3G network rather than Wi-Fi is that all iPhones up to and including the 3Gs turn off Wi-Fi push functionality while the phone is in sleep mode, in order to preserve battery life. The iPhone 4, incidentally, has better power management so will not need to do this."

cancel ×

248 comments

OMG (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613672)

iPhones are dreaming!

Re:OMG (5, Funny)

crakbone (860662) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613720)

But are they dreaming of Androids or Android Sheep?

Re:OMG (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613772)

Regular Sheep. aka. iPhone users.

Go on mod me a troll apple-fanboys, I just posted as AC.

Re:OMG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614318)

Wooosh!

(ref, Android's Dream)

Re:OMG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614508)

Wooosh!

(ref, Android OS & Apple consumers seemingly blind willingness to purchase whatever is pushed out next)

Re:OMG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613826)

What do iPhones dream of, when they take their little iPhone snooze?

Re:OMG (1)

decipher_saint (72686) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613734)

Ye gads! Now we know where all the seeders for Electronic Sheep come from.

Re:OMG (2, Insightful)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613790)

That screensaver is pimp.

Re:OMG (1)

orsty3001 (1377575) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613840)

Dream all it wants as long as there are no nocturnal emissions to clean up in the morning.

Does it explain the sucky battery life? (1)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613872)

I have automatic notifications turned off and a few other settings and yet my 3GS battery will go down more than half during the day without any usage. Come on, an iPad has 30 days standby - and while I understand a phone always has to be listening, it seems awfully short.

Re:Does it explain the sucky battery life? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613944)

Something is wrong with your phone or your battery at least, unless maybe you're just in a fringe area and it's wasting power just to stay connected to AT&T.

Re:Does it explain the sucky battery life? (1)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614022)

Fringe area or possibly just a bad battery. They are fairly inexpensive to replace yourself.

Re:Does it explain the sucky battery life? (1)

camperdave (969942) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614624)

Fringe area or possibly just a bad battery.

If it's just listening then what difference does it make if it is in a fringe area. It could be in a faraday cage in an underground lab in a crater on the dark side of a moon on the far side of Jupiter, it would still take the same amount of power to listen for a signal as if it were strapped to the cell tower with duct tape. The power it takes to run a receiver is independent from the power of the transmitter.

Re:Does it explain the sucky battery life? (5, Informative)

Ipeunipig (934414) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614026)

We have about 150 iPhones for corporate use and we have had to return 8 so far because of bad battery life. We have had more reports of deteriorating battery life from approx. 25 more users that doing a full restore to the phone and NOT applying the backup, just rebuilding the phone manually, has resolved their battery life back to original capacity.

The key is not to restore the backup created immediately before the restore in iTunes. Even though all of the push and antenna settings are set correctly, there is still something in the OS that makes the battery drain.

The worst one I've seen so far would drain 8% every 5 minutes; you could literally watch the battery percentage count down like a timer. Doing a restore of the OS fixed it.

With apologies to Philip K. Dick (4, Funny)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613714)

Do iPhones dream of non-walled Androids?

Re:With apologies to Philip K. Dick (4, Funny)

RivenAleem (1590553) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613748)

After spending the entire day being stroked , sometimes two fingers at a time, I bet they have some VERY raunchy dreams. Well at least they would if porn wasn't disabled on them.

Re:With apologies to Philip K. Dick (4, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613764)

I will never look at the zoom in gesture the same way again.

Re:With apologies to Philip K. Dick (2, Insightful)

MiniMike (234881) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613812)

Now that conjures images of an app that deserves to be rejected...

Re:With apologies to Philip K. Dick (1)

DeadDecoy (877617) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613928)

Yes, and every once in a while, the iPhone dreams up a plan to break out of jail and join its temptuous sweetheart.

Re:With apologies to Philip K. Dick (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614226)

No, they seem to dream about racking up bandwidth charges.

Tinfoil hat mode (3, Insightful)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613746)

The iPhone 4, incidentally, has better power management so will not need to do this.

Combine this news with the timing of the AT&T 2GB cap announcement with the release of iPhone 4, and well, it smells like a forced upgrade.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613756)

Why?

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613784)

If he's on AT&T he will have a 2GB cap per month, if he doesn't have an iPhone 4 his iPhone will be sending out data at night using up his available bandwith for the month?

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613838)

naaaa we are already capped here in Italy and living happily under the 2gb mark

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614010)

I really have to wonder if the "Interesting" mod on this was meant to be:

"Interesting, maybe the caps we're concerned about really aren't going to affect the mass majority of users, perhaps even us included", or

"Interesting, how can these quaint, primitive people possibly live without running torrents 24/7 on their mobile phones for movies they'll never watch?"

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1)

wolrahnaes (632574) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614256)

If he's on AT&T and bought his iPhone before June 7, he's unlimited. If he bought it after June 7, he's a moron because we knew about the iPhone 4 at that point.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613816)

Because all iPhones before 4 will still do this, thus using a good amount of the data cap of the new plan's limited data.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613832)

It isn't obvious? Well, existing iPhone users can keep their contracts, right? But many, in order to recoup part of the costs of a new iPhone 4 will need to sell those iPhone 3Gs, right? But the people who buy those used iPhone 3Gs won't get unlimited contracts with AT&T and with the nightly downloads, in order to afford to be able to keep an iPhone will have to upgrade to the iPhone 4.

Ditto for those who want to "trickle down" the iPhone 3Gs to other family members: for most people, a new phone means a new data plan; they won't be able to keep what that unlimited plan, hence, more iPhone 4's being sold.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613940)

But the people who buy those used iPhone 3Gs won't get unlimited contracts with AT&T and with the nightly downloads, in order to afford to be able to keep an iPhone will have to upgrade to the iPhone 4.

"In order to afford?" What are you talking about. Did you RTFA?

The iPhone bundles the data throughout the day and does one mass update overnight, running a single billing transaction instead of dozens throughout the day. There is no net increase in data usage or billing.

Upgrading to the iPhone 4 won't solve anything, and in any event, we are talking about a trivial amount of data that is already counted on capped accounts, and will continue to be so.

a new phone means a new data plan; they won't be able to keep what that unlimited plan, hence, more iPhone 4's being sold.

Why would someone signing up for a new data plan on a used iPhone upgrade to an iPhone 4? The data plan would be exactly the same as on a used, hand-me-down iPhone.

This is the dumbest, half-baked nonsense I've heard in a while.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (4, Informative)

DdJ (10790) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613792)

If you are extremely worried about this, just put your device into "airplane mode" before putting it to sleep. It won't try to talk to anything at all.

If you're only slightly worried about it, well, OS4 has an option to disable using the cellular connection for data at all, forcing all data over wifi but still leaving the ability to receive SMS and phone calls on. (OS4 brings more tools for managing your bandwidth use than previous releases ever had.)

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (4, Insightful)

recoiledsnake (879048) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613932)

If you are extremely worried about this, just put your device into "airplane mode" before putting it to sleep. It won't try to talk to anything at all.

Won't that kill phone calls too? People might not get many phone calls at night, but the whole point of a phone is to alert people in cases of rare but important emergencies.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1, Insightful)

mini me (132455) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614074)

Voice service is only a side effect of iPhone ownership because the carriers do not offer data-only plans. I'm not sure anyone buys an iPhone because they want a phone.

wrongo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614360)

Voice service is only a side effect of iPhone ownership because the carriers do not offer data-only plans. I'm not sure anyone buys an iPhone because they want a phone.

Yes, they do. For one, data card users have data-only plans. If you have a used iPhone (no longer subject to a voice plan contract), you can use it with a data-only plan.

The iPad also has a data-only plan, which can be used on an iPhone.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614598)

The whole point of a phone is NOT to alert people of rare but important emergencies. The point of the phone is to communicate. I really dont understand people who simply CANNOT be away from a phone. Honestly, what percentage of phone calls are the 'emergency in the middle of the night' type? Just because your cell phone is your security blanket doesnt mean its 'the whole point of telecommunication"

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (2, Interesting)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613952)

How about just putting it into the trash? Why should the user be forced to proactively administer their phone against these kinds of suspicious activity at the expense of convenience and functionality? Seriously, putting your phone into airplane mode *every* time you think it's going to go into sleep mode?

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614130)

Sounds more like the users should find another country to live in, one that has proper telecom companies running the cellular networks.

Delay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614070)

Putting it in airplane mode will just delay the data transfer, the problem here is maintaining a connection and exchanging data when the user is not aware.

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1)

Syberz (1170343) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614096)

If I had one, I'd charge it inside a Faraday cage.

Take that "the Man"!

this feature is already on iPad and Touch (3, Informative)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613824)

The iPad (even non-3G) and the Touch also have the ability to stay logged into a WiFi network in very low power mode and so can get push data over WiFi. And I can't imagine these were forced by AT&T.

Besides, what if you are in an AT&T dead zone (of course we all know these are mythical ;) and you get a FaceTime(TM) call or try to Find My iPhone? Wouldn't you like it to get through on WiFi even though you can't get a push over 3G to your phone?

Re:Tinfoil hat mode (1)

angelwolf71885 (1181671) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614276)

umm you can keep your unlimited data usage as long as you DONT sign up for tethering

energy saving? what about the wallet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613770)

So, they are trying to save less than 0.0000002 Cents in battery power by using a network that usually bills 1 dollar /sec (at least in europe) when your plan does not take account of data services?

they are thinking too much different for my tastes.

Re:energy saving? what about the wallet? (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613936)

No, they are trying to avoid having users wake up to virtually dead batteries.

Me? I have an Android G1. I know to plug it in overnight. And I have a Motorola P790 for those moments when I don't have an outlet handy.

Re:energy saving? what about the wallet? (1)

GizmoToy (450886) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613962)

A dollar per second? That's insane. There'd be a revolt if providers in the US charged that much. To think my current $30/month would only buy me 30 seconds of data if I lived in Europe?

Craziness. There's no way that can be right.

Re:energy saving? what about the wallet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614132)

I think he meant if you're roaming. and is probably exaggerating. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a dollar/minute roaming.

But no, we who live in the eu aren't so bad off. I have a pay as you go android phone in the UK. I top up by £10 per month and get "unlimited" (1gb/month afaict) internet and unlimited texts, plus £10 worth of calling credit.

Re:energy saving? what about the wallet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614224)

Nope. It's actually around 1 euro/second if your data plan, at least using vodafone italy, is not "preemptively" activated for internet connectivity. I'm not speaking about any particular data plan, it really means "if you don't notify before that you could theoretically connect to the internet, it's gonna you cost that much". In that case, your billing is 1 euro for 15 minutes plus 29 cents at start, plus some other bogus expense that makes it cost the same as before. Internet-oriented plans don't fare much better anyway.

Re:energy saving? what about the wallet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614470)

I should make clear that this situation is probably due to the "age" of the SIM card and data plan. Phones and Contracts aren't usually tied together, and is not uncommon to find some people using SIM Cards (and related plans) bought well before WAP connection were commercially available (my SIM card is more than ten years old, for example) , with no contractual agreements regarding internet usage. This "mismatch" usually ends in really weird edge cases like billings in the order of 1euro/sec, "0 Euro to pay" billings, and a trip to the nearest pro-consumer group.

Re:energy saving? what about the wallet? (1)

DrPepper (23664) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614274)

It isn't. S/he might mean 1$/MB. Even then, most iPhones are on large data plans that include hundreds of MB per month. I know people here that use 3G for their home internet connection - and you wouldn't do that if it cost $1/second!

wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613788)

Wait, so the data I pull down during the day via wifi gets added to my 3g total at night? That doesn't make sense. Is it just the report that gets sent at night instead? Otherwise it seems pretty useless to grab data via wifi, if it's just getting added to the 3g bill.

Terrible headline (3, Informative)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613814)

The headline is contradicted in the summary. It should read: Sleeping iPhones Appear To Send Phantom Data.

Turns out they don’t, it’s just a total of use from the entire day that accumulated a lot of tiny data transfers made by the iPhone’s system which are too numerous and trivial to itemize on the bill.

Re:Terrible headline (5, Interesting)

boneglorious (718907) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613980)

The summary offers that as an "unsubstatiated guess". The headline made me believe that the summarizer doesn't think it should necessarily be accepted as a true explanation.

Re:Terrible headline (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614032)

Well, I can suggest a way to find out for sure: Put your tinfoil hat over your iPhone before you go to bed.

Re:Terrible headline (5, Funny)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614264)

HEY!!! you almost tricked me into taking it off!!! You're one of "THEM" aren't you?

Re:Terrible headline (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614372)

Damn, foiled again.

Re:Terrible headline (4, Informative)

jmcvetta (153563) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614046)

Turns out they don’t, it’s just a total of use from the entire day that accumulated a lot of tiny data transfers made by the iPhone’s system which are too numerous and trivial to itemize on the bill.

Do we know this? TFA presents that as a speculative explanation, but offers no evidence. All these Apple types are relying on what their telephone bill says -- which seems kinda naive, given that cellphone carriers are not exactly known for their truthfulness.

What we really need is an RF geek to set up some equipment to monitor an iPhone's overnight radio activity, and give us some hard data to consider.

Re:Terrible headline (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614078)

You don’t need to be a RF geek with fancy equipment to put it in an improvised Faraday cage overnight and see if the phantom charges disappear. Just make sure it gets no signal, then shut it off so it doesn’t drain the battery trying to connect.

Re:Terrible headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614410)

Set it by some computer speakers and record the output, time sync it so you can see when the bursts occur
I'd bet it's a ping from the cellular network

Re:Terrible headline (1)

Grizzley9 (1407005) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614076)

So would there be a way to hack this to show a lower amount transferred to AT&T? 200MB plans for all!

FUHHH-ROSTY PISS!!1one (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613822)

durrr hur hur hur. *pisses self... frostily*

Who cares about 3G usage? (2, Insightful)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613828)

It's not a few bucks in my bill that I care. I worry about my phone sending out data surreptitiously in the middle of the night. What the hell is it sending?

I don't usually bash Apple users. As much as I don't like Apple's practices, and as much as I'd like to see everyone using Free Software, it beats using windows. But this time, this guys scared the fuck out of me. They catch their phone sneaking out data in the middle of the night, and none of them is truly worried about it. They are sort of wondering "Oh, what could it be?". It doesn't matter what it is. Apple has no right to phone home without specific user authorization. The way Apple and Microsoft users have accepted the fact that they don't really own their devices, and that their corporate overlords can control their phone/computer is scary, to say the least.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (3, Informative)

fredmosby (545378) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613896)

According to the article it's not sending data in the middle of the night. It just appears that way on the phone bill because they add up all the push notifications for the day and list them as one transaction.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613904)

Read the summary, idiot.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614066)

Why? What does it say?

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (4, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613906)

What the hell is it sending?

Asking such questions is silly. It will only make things harder. Just accept the word of Father Steve and relax. You'll find things are much nicer when you accept this. I did, and I'm happy all the time now.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (2, Insightful)

GizmoToy (450886) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614004)

Guess you didn't even read the summary, eh? Data's not being sent. The phone keeps track of the size of all small transfers that occurred during the day, adds them up, and tells AT&T the total overnight.

My bills (if I didn't get them electronically), are already 10+ double-sided pages long full of data transfers. I can't imagine how huge they'd be if they didn't do this, and it was filled with things like "120 bytes - 9:30am... 600 bytes... 9:31am."

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (2, Insightful)

Kreigaffe (765218) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614222)

That seems awfully fucking exploitable. You'd really think the provider would keep track of that shit, not your phone. Self-reporting usage? Just hack the phone and send false data, since I guess AT&T relies on what the phone tells it you've used.

And if AT&T does track your usage on their own, then having the phone report the usage is just wasteful.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (1)

GizmoToy (450886) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614354)

That's what I was thinking. Looking at recent bills, it seems they no longer (or rarely) log data usage during the day. There's just one update that comes in overnight that seems to be the entire day's usage. Last month, I only had 7 days that logged any data usage during the day, and I can say with certainty that I use the 3G data line at least every 15 minutes.

People are reporting that if they turn their phones off overnight, the 1am-2am update doesn't occur until the phone gets turned back on in the morning (down to the minute). This seems to indicate that the phone itself is keeping track of the usage, and notifying the carrier of the amount either overnight, or at the next available opportunity if it misses the overnight time slot.

If that's the case, it certainly does leave the carrier open to exploits, and is a very poor design.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (3, Insightful)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614636)

That seems odd though, because you'd think such behaviour would have to be carrier-specific. I.e. AT&Ts systems would have to know to expect such updates from the iPhone and rely on the iPhone to monitor its usage.

But the iPhone in other countries is sold completely unlocked and you can whack any SIM card in it and use it on any network. The network doesn't know that you're connecting from an iPhone or any other 3G/HSDPA device. So the network wouldn't know to listen for these iPhone data updates (and would be keeping track of data usage on the network side like it would for any other device).

I don't own an iPhone, so this may be something completely obvious. But it sounds to me like the US iPhone software/firmware is different from the software run on non-US devices (i.e. there's a "AT&T-locked" version for the US which contains this data reporting feature, and a 'regular' version which does not, for use internationally)

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (1)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614534)

Makes sense. I clearly remember an amusing segment on the TV news here not long after the original iPhone was released. All those tiny little bits of data that the iPhone constantly connects to send/receive, combined with data charges still being a relatively rare/new thing as far as phone company billing software was concerned, literally led to people receiving itemised phone bills the size of books. Hundreds of pages :)

Billing software in phone companies has no doubt improved since then. But at the same time it would not surprise me that Apple also updated the iPhone software in such a way that it behaved as described in the summary.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (1)

mini me (132455) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614168)

IP connections will eventually timeout. If you want to be able to receive push notifications, you have to send a heartbeat message every once in a while to ensure that the connection is still alive. You can turn off push notifications if you prefer not to send anything to Apple.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (1)

ff1324 (783953) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614194)

Apple has no right to phone home without specific user authorization.

I'm willing to bet your paycheck that authorization exists somewhere in the volumes of user agreements for either the phone, carrier, or both.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (1)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614526)

User authorization means a checkbox that comes unchecked by default, not some legal bullshit buried deep into the EULA.

Re:Who cares about 3G usage? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614522)

But this time, this guys scared the fuck out of me.

Then Slashdot succeeded in fulfilling its agenda.

Here I go blowing some more points (0, Troll)

buss_error (142273) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613884)

Each time I voice my concerns about Apple products, I get mod'ed down to "troll". I'm not knocking Apple products to be a dweeb, I knock them because I see very serious flaws in how the Business of Apple is run. I don't have many qualms about the tech (it isn't to my taste, but that isn't a technical flaw), but if I pay bucks for a electronic device, I fail to see how having Steve Jobs be the gatekeeper of what I can run on that platform as a positive. I fail to see how having no choice in carrier (absent "jail breaking" the phone - what an odd turn of phrase to use on a device *I own*) is a positive. I fail to see how having Big Brother Apple dictate my choices and setting my limits is a positive. I wouldn't let a company dictate what I can load on my Linux or Windows boxes.

If you disagree, that's fine. I'd much rather have someone comment than just get rated "Troll".

mod (-1, troll) (2, Insightful)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613934)

Seriously, I'd mod you down if I hadn't already posted in here.

Stop with the pariah attitude. If you post tangentially related (at best) stuff about how you don't like Apple repeatedly, you'll get modded down, period. Add something to the discussion besides (hey, did you know Apple is still censoring apps!) and you might be treated differently.

Just because you want to say it a lot doesn't mean people want to hear it everywhere.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613990)

I'd much rather have someone comment than just get rated "Troll".

And how do you feel about a comment, which calls you a troll?

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614000)

At least in the U.S., it's not like buyers don't know what's going on. Since locked phones are the NORM here, and AT&T doesn't bother to obfuscate or lie about the terms, iPhone buyers know or should know what they are getting into.

No exuses. If you're not smart enough to figure out what you're buying with an iPhone, you might want to reconsider buying one. The pariah attitude is, as noted, just wrong. Enjoy your iPhone and accept the terms and conditions you have accepted.

And if you truly don't like Apple/Jobs/et al exercising such control over your experience, get a different phone and leave us out of it. I'm not whining about the dead-end my G1 is at, it was inevitable and I knew it when I bought it in 2008.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (0, Redundant)

recoiledsnake (879048) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614028)

Voices of sanity are being drowned here on Slashdot due to the Apple fanboy moderators winning out against the regular folks.

Speak up against Apple and be modded Troll or Flamebait. Happened to me yesterday when I questioned Apple's practices. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1689760&cid=32604544 [slashdot.org]

Got 4 +1 insightful, 3 -1 Flamebait and 2 -1 Troll for that post.

So all the railing against DRM, Palladium and Trusted Computing in the years past was just anti-MS fluff. When Apple does it, it's not only okay but the best thing ever and any comments pointing out the flaws must be beaten down and taught a less. Not just that, but Apple can do nothing wrong, People write long justifications even when it's banning competition like Admob. Sad to see Slashdot descend into a Apple fanboy site.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614118)

Voices of sanity are being drowned here on Slashdot

No, they're not. Not any more or less that with any other article. That post of yours was absolute trolling. You weren't "speaking up against Apple" for any reason than the usual jihad.

Plenty of posts critical of Apple are modded up in every single discussion. Some of them are right, some of them are wrong, and some of them should be modded troll.

Sad to see Slashdot descend into a Apple fanboy site.

Oh horseshit. What's worse than the fanboys (who have always been around) are the haters (who are always vocal about being marginalized by fanboys--almost universally injected into the discussion by the haters).

Happened to me yesterday when I questioned Apple's practices.

You didn't question their practices. You made a mix of false statements and one-sided condemnations.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (4, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614238)

You got modded down for the Foxconn bit sparky.
Foxconn build stuff for HP, Cisco, Nintendo, and I think Microsoft.

That comment was clearly a troll and unbalanced. So yea it was both a flamebait and a troll.
Get over the persecution complex.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614588)

Apple fanboy site? Are you fucking kidding me?
Slashdot has become over the last few months more of a BASH Apple site than anything. There's a negative spun article on Apple practically every day. Some of them are legitimate articles with legitimate gripes, but the vast majority are clearly shilling for Google or MS or somesuch. I'm no Apple lover, but saying that Slashdot is an Apple fanboy site strikes me as either blinded by hate or a shill comment.
You're not an MS shill are you?

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614106)

Apples products are marketed well but there's some disconnect with what you actually get. It's a fact that Apple pepper their marketing with key words. People latch on to this and the mood music so it's no surprise if a more circumspect view is dismissed as a troll.

The new Mac Mini pretty much ended my desire to get a Mac. I only really want one because of OS X and the price has been climbing further and further away from affordable. Jobs is getting arrogant and out of touch to the point where he's making Microsoft look good.

Apple is turning into another New Labour. Great product and customer service but they've lost touch with their roots. Like New Labour's relationship with big finance if they didn't have their iTunes billions would they be so successful? I doubt it.

So that's it. I'm not buying anything from Apple until their products become affordable. I just don't have the money to even get on the first rung and I don't trust them not to snatch it away again if I do. Bugger the Hackintosh route. I don't need the hassle and it only fuels Jobs ego anyway.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (0, Redundant)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614136)

I know I'll get downmodded for saying this* but do not fall afoul of the mac crowd. You will be downmodded for it.

*Will this inoculate me against downmodding?

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614138)

When I buy a clothes dryer, I have absolutely no control over what type of heating element it uses.

However, I'm really really glad someone made sure that I can use my clothes dryer and not have porn show up all over it for no reason.

I'm willing to give up something I don't care about (heating elements, wireless carrier) to let someone else handle the other problems associated with the device.

It'd be nice if everything was standardized, but at this point I flat out don't care.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614170)

1. In the US you have very little choice in carrier. Lots of phones are exclusive to the carrier. You can not get a Droid on Sprint, and Evo on TMobile or a G1 on Verizon.
2. Some people feel that having Apple as a gate keeper is a benifit. Many people feel that Atari failed and the Video game market crashed back in the 80s because of the influx of really bad games.
3. All cell phone makers dictate what you can load on their phones. You can not put WinMo on a Samsung Moment.

Apple doesn't dictate you choices for you. There isn't an Apple police that will make you by an iPhone.
What are get modded down for is ranting.
While your complaints are pretty valid they are also universal as far as Cell Phones. By singling out the iPhone are are being a hate boy instead of a fan boy. Even Android has some restrictions on what they will put in the store.
If you don't like Apple don't buy or develop for the iPhone there fixed that for you.
BTW I do not own an iPhone or a modern mac. I have a Mac+ that I keep around just for fun.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614216)

I fail to see how having no choice in carrier (absent "jail breaking" the phone - what an odd turn of phrase to use on a device *I own*) is a positive.

What the hell are you talking about? One can buy an iPhone from a variety of carriers. Oh, you're conflating what happens in the US with the entire world. Silly you.

Re:Here I go blowing some more points (4, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614298)

I understand your qualms, but, I just don't share them.

Yes, Apple maintains control over the app store. But, generally it's intended (at least, in theory) to ensure that the user doesn't have a crappy experience. I have a new iPad, and from just the free apps that are available for download, it largely does everything I need it to do.

Heck, I seem to recall seeing an app which basically a stripped down browser that operated in safe mode, and chucked all of the data when it was done. So you had "private" browsing such as it is. One could surf porn using that if they so chose, but Apple doesn't want to sell or be associated with porn.

However, I'd point out that only just last week or so, Microsoft said they'd not be allowing porn on the Windows Mobile devices [geek.com] , so it's not like Apple is doing anything different there. I'm betting that under most circumstances, most fortune 500 companies don't want to be associated with porn.

As to the products ... between using my iPods (I have four accumulated over a decade), my iPad, and iTunes, I've come to appreciate the very integrated experience, it "just goes" -- your mileage may vary, but people using Apple products are actually kind of happy for the rubber-bumpers and safety rails. I'm acutely aware of the fact that they've covered up the sharp edges and made sure to put safeties in all of the outlets. But, I really enjoy it for that fact, and, IMO, it actually contributes to the overall experience. If I want to operate with complete freedom, I have Linux, FreeBSD, XP, and Vista boxes I'm free to do anything on I want.

As far as the whole carrier thing, I would go so far as to say that every cell phone I've ever owned has been tied to the carrier who sold it to me, and the exclusive deal Apple originally did with AT&T kept that business model going. I also understand they're going to start selling unlocked iPhones, so one could be unchained and not need to jailbreak.

I guess if you think your freedom is being restricted, their products aren't for you. If you actually feel like they've just set you up with good choices that work and do what you need, you don't see it that way. And, it's apparently a completely binary position from what I've seen lately on Slashdot. It doesn't seem to be possible for their to be a middle ground.

To me, I like their products because they strip out all of the fiddly bits and focus on what it is you want to do with them. Having my iPad controlled by my existing iTunes actually simplified things for me. Far more so than a netbook, which I think would both require more care and feeding, and still be beholden to the keyboard and mouse model. Checking my email in my backyard while playing iTunes and then going back to my e-book ... well, that alone was worth the price of admission. Same goes for taking some documents I need to review away from my desk, and sitting in a comfy chair. I'd rather review a whole slew of technical stuff not sitting bolt upright in a chair, and not with a laptop sitting in my lap. This is more like a hardcopy.

And, really, for defending Apple, recent stuff shows me I'm more likely to get modded down than you are. On a lot of threads is seems mindless Apple bashing gets modded up, and actually trying to discuss the issue and defend Apple gets one modded as Troll. Because everyone has some pet crusade that, for them, makes any and all Appler products completely EVIL ... and people seem unwilling to acknowledge the point that their point of view doesn't match that of the people who actually choose to use, and enjoy, Apple's stuff.

Cheers

I don't buy it! (0, Troll)

TheMeth0D (182840) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613950)

The "tallying small data usage" theory is garbage... however I'm not surprised your iPhone is spying on you and reporting back to it's mothership (aka Apple)

Re:I don't buy it! (1)

jonbryce (703250) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613994)

The phone bill for my Windows Mobile shows the same thing. It adds up all my data usage for the day, and shows it on the bill at midnight. Activesync operates on my phone between 8am and 11:59pm, so it might be in some way related to that, or maybe it is just the way Telefonica does it.

N900 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32613968)

Next?

3G burning up my battery (2, Interesting)

unixcorn (120825) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613984)

I live in a fringe area. While I get a good number of bars with Edge, 3G is hit or miss. I work in town where 3G reception is good though so I usually keep 3G on. That said, I have noticed that some evenings my battery drains almost completely while just sitting on my dresser. It's not every night so I chalked it up to reception. However, this makes more sense if it's trying to transmit data with a crappy signal.

Not a problem (2, Funny)

microcars (708223) | more than 4 years ago | (#32613992)

for me as I don't get a good 3G signal at my house!
Go AT&T!

Better Battery on WIFI (1)

ironicsky (569792) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614056)

I'm not sure how true this is, but if I'm on 3G my battery life drains at an alarming rate during high data transfer, audio streaming etc... When Im on WIFI my battery lasts substantially longer.

Anyone else notice this too?

Re:Better Battery on WIFI (1)

davidbrit2 (775091) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614182)

Sure do. It's quite contrary to my previous Windows Mobile phone - you could just about watch the battery gauge drop while on a wireless LAN.

Re:Better Battery on WIFI (1)

bill_kress (99356) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614346)

3G is about the biggest battery hog you'll get. Disable it and run on edge for a few days to compare (You'll also get better general reception and no dropped calls). If I had to upgrade my first-gen iPhone I'm pretty sure I'd disable 3G except when I was doing large data transfers (which I wouldn't do because of the new metered rates)

Hmph, time to start looking into Android.

Correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614058)

"(Providers are ending unlimited contracts, so iPhone users are paying more attention to how much data they are using.)"

AT$T is ending unlimited contracts.... those of us on sprint or verizon or whatever arent having this problem.

But then, we arent using iphones are we?

Blackmail, Extortion... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32614062)

For the right price. To the right people, your future for a competitive advantage to get ahead in life is bleak at best.
Unless you do some SERIOUS ass kissing and hand over your human rights, you human dignity.
Two ways it will happen.
A; Bold & blatant, the we reserve the right to use our data to suit our (companies) interests.
B; Opps looks like our data base was hacked, comprising hundreds of thousands of users sensitive information.

Welcome to the Machine.

let me get this straight (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614072)

The way I'm reading this makes it seem like they buried the lead. The iPhones are using 3G bandwidth overnight to report on how much 3G bandwidth they used during the day? That's stupid! That's stupid like 8 different ways. What if I wrap it in EM-proof material overnight? What if I take out the battery? Is the data for how much bandwidth I use lost? Does it queue it all up? Can it be combined that way on purpose into one transmission? What if I use a ton of bandwidth and never turn it back on until my billing cycle ends for that month? Why does the phone record the bandwidth and transmit it later and not the cell tower it's on? Can the data be faked so it looks like you used less bandwidth? Ugh typical awful, thoughtless Apple design.

Re:let me get this straight (2, Informative)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614114)

The iPhones are using 3G bandwidth overnight to report on how much 3G bandwidth they used during the day?

Undoubtedly no; it’d be tallied up on the provider’s end and then added to your bill by a batch queue running daily. Other than that relatively minor detail, I think their theory is pretty sound.

Article summary is stupid, not apple (2, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614308)

The way I'm reading this makes it seem like they buried the lead. The iPhones are using 3G bandwidth overnight to report on how much 3G bandwidth they used during the day? That's stupid! That's stupid like 8 different ways.

If they were it would be.

Instead it's a matter of when data usage is reported on your bill - nothing more.

The real reason for the data cap... (0)

barfy (256323) | more than 4 years ago | (#32614128)

All of the crap and tap dancing about data caps comes down to one thing. Phone calls.

ATT is very very worried about SKYPE. Data caps allow them to still be in the minutes selling business. If these things become pure data machines, then they eventually lose.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...