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Visa Launches PayPal Alternative

samzenpus posted more than 4 years ago | from the lesser-of-two-evils dept.

The Almighty Buck 141

An anonymous reader writes "Visa has entered the micropayment processing space with payclick, a pre-paid hosted service that will compete with the likes of PayPal. Payclick is aimed at teenagers purchasing online content like music and games where the value of the transaction is likely to be less than $20. Like PayPal, payclick is an online money repository that people can pay into with a bank account or credit card (Visa or MasterCard) and then use the funds to purchase products online. The service was developed and launched in Australia with a view for global markets. PayPal integration is not there yet, but parents can monitor the amount of funds their under-18 children have to spend online. For e-commerce sites, an SDK is available for payclick integration."

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THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM !! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676084)

Tihs is a good thing for all concerned !!

Except PayPal !!

Re:THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM !! (5, Insightful)

mitgib (1156957) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676776)

How long before eBay marks it as a non-trusted form of payment?

Re:THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM !! (5, Insightful)

jbssm (961115) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676940)

Exactly. I wonder how Google checkout is still a non trusted form of Payment for an eBay auction. Are they afraid Google steals our 10$ ?

Re:THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM !! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32677334)

At some threshold, they'll get in trouble over this- it's called a conflict of interest on their part. They own the only largely "trusted" payment company.

Visa might be the one to actually nail them over it.

Re:THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM !! (5, Insightful)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677338)

How long before eBay marks it as a non-trusted form of payment?

How long after that would Visa start declining charges made through PayPal?

Unlike Google, Visa can cause problems for eBay.

Bloat (0, Troll)

Grandim (1390511) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676098)

Just what I needed, more bloat on checkout pages.

Re:Bloat (4, Insightful)

acer8930 (1520631) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676120)

You mean those radio option boxes are too hard for you?

Re:Bloat (1)

wkeri11a (963528) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676260)

Agreed plus didn't companies try this like 10 years ago because they felt people didn't want to shop using their credit cards? In fact, it failed because people weren't as phobic about it as originally thought. Looks like Visa needed something to spend their vast profits gained by gouging us with interest and fees.

Re:Bloat (4, Insightful)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676520)

Stop using your credit card as a credit line, and start using it as a way to get up to 56 days extra interest on your money plus (often statutory) protections on purchases.

Re:Bloat (4, Informative)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677532)

Most cards' grace period is now only 25 days. And the interest starts accruing from the purchase date, not the end of the grace period. Avoid credit cards if possible, as all their benefits are wiped out if you slip up once.

Re:Bloat (4, Informative)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677846)

Most cards' grace period is now only 25 days.

Really? My statement date for my Visa+Mastercard account, for example, is 15th of the month. So, if I buy something on 15th, I get until the statement on the following 15th plus 25 days. 56 days.

And the interest starts accruing from the purchase date, not the end of the grace period.

If your card isn't fully paid off every month, yes.

Avoid credit cards if possible, as all their benefits are wiped out if you slip up once.

If I don't remember - which I do - then my calendaring software reminds me. And, as a last resort, I have a Direct Debit set up to automatically pay the minimum amount - this is managd by the same bank which issues my card. I could make it the whole payment amount, but because I have a secondary card holder the funds come from multiple places.

But yes, if you are terribly disorganised, you might want to get a credit card anyway while your salary+credit's good, then just not use it until you've learnt to organise your life better.

Excepting where you wish to remain anonymous - then cash wins, as always.

Re:Bloat (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 4 years ago | (#32679080)

Really? My statement date for my Visa+Mastercard account, for example, is 15th of the month. So, if I buy something on 15th, I get until the statement on the following 15th plus 25 days. 56 days.

Huh. So as long as you time all your purchases correctly, you get the grace period you specified. For the rest of us, who would use a card throughout the month, the advertised grace period in the credit card fine print is what you should go by.

If I don't remember - which I do - then my calendaring software reminds me. And, as a last resort, I have a Direct Debit set up to automatically pay the minimum amount - this is managd by the same bank which issues my card. I could make it the whole payment amount, but because I have a secondary card holder the funds come from multiple places.

Most cards have an interest rate of prime + 9% (at least. My Discover card is prime + %16 and I've got a fairly high credit score. They wouldn't budge on the rate due to their chargeoffs). When I said "slip up", I mean not paying off the full balance. Making the minimum payment causes you to pay interest on what you spent, thereby negating the "free money" via the grace period for however many months you've been using the card before. Why play a game when you can use a debit card for everyday purchases? Yes, use a credit card for big ticket items to protect yourself for 60 days (chargeback period), but make sure you have the cash upfront to pay off the purchase.

Re:Bloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32677968)

Agreed.

And stay VERY far away from store credit cards (Best Buy in particular). They're usually issued by such customer-screwing entities as HSBC. That 48-month payment plan? That's no "you have 48 months to pay it off" grace period. They expect monthly payments, and if you're not on time, the late fee often ends up being MORE than the actual payment. As for the interest rate on the payment plans - they may be low and already factored into the payments, but they start calculating interest at somewhere around 26% right away. Why? Because if you fall on hard times (like losing your job) and end up a couple months behind, they write off the account to a collection firm. When they do, they immediately add on all of the interest at the higher rate, effective as of the purchacse date. Between that and the "fees" for them writing off the account, you can EASILY end up being hounded and harassed for TWICE what your original remaining balance was.

And part of this is all thanks to a boneheaded move by SCOTUS in the 70's allowing banks to charge interest based on where they have offices, not based on where the client is. That's why you see outfits like HSBC set up shop in places like Illinois. The usury laws are MUCH more lax, allowing them to charge astronomical interest rates compared to whatever they may be capped at in the client's home state.

Argentina? (1)

buanzo (542591) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676102)

Will this work internationally, easily, without the central bank saying it's all money laundering? Yes, that's the kind of idiots that run banks here.

Better Alternative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676112)

I'd rather an Visa launch an alternative than can use existing visa infrastructure but work as a PayPal account with all the user web oriented features.

Careful not to load it up too much (5, Insightful)

jaymz2k4 (790806) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676116)

Seems once your money is in the system its there for good

The amount of money held in a payclick account must be between $20 to $1000 and withdrawals to a bank account are not allowed. Payclick also supports recurring transactions

Of course you can just keep spending it online but I'm sure there'll come a point where little Jimmy wants some cold cash in his hands.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (3, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676232)

Yup it's a scam. and it blows my nind they call a "micropayment" amounts under $20.00US...

I know that bankers wipe their asses with $50's and $100's but most Americans don't call even $5.00 a "micro" payment. Most people consider under $2.00 a micropayment.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (4, Insightful)

Twinbee (767046) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676254)

Er excuse me, but I thought micropayments were something like $0.05 or less?

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (3, Informative)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676278)

Nah, $2-$5 is micropayments. Play any of the new EA games or D&D Online, you buy points then they deduct it. Even Xbox Live/PSN can be counted as micropayment systems.

Then you have iTunes, Amazon, etc with music, I've never seen anything for $0.05.

Actually, I don't think I've seen anything for sale for $0.05 in some time, on the net or in physical form. Even eBay sets a minimum at $0.99.

I have no idea where you got $0.05 from.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676324)

I have no idea where you got $0.05 from.

Most likely from the fact that's what micro-payments originally meant. They started as small loans in 3rd world countries to let people start businesses there.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676458)

umm, those were microcredits or microloans, and they were always considerably larger than $0.05. Micropayments never did and still don't really have a dollar amount associated with them.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676844)

The only reason that $2-$5 is called a "micropayment" is that nobody ever figured out how to deliver on the original target(fractions of a penny up to a dollar or so) in any way that wasn't swamped by transaction costs or some other failure mechanism.

Some years ago, there was a lot of quasi-utopian fluff about them floating around. Then all the companies in the field went out of business.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (3, Interesting)

mitgib (1156957) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677142)

Fictionwise.com is a bookstore I've bought from in the past and sells short stories and books with many under $1 and I've bought many short stories under a quarter. They offer a micropay solution of their own, pay in $5 or more with paypal and draw from it as you go, as the transaction charges from paypal would make a lot of these works unavailable otherwise.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

grahamm (8844) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677306)

I thought the original idea of micropayments was to, for example, charge something like $0.005 per email sent or per view of a web page etc. rather than for the purchase of individual items.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677656)

It might be a nano-payment. I read some time ago the idea that some sites could charge these for page access, even down to $0.0001. The idea is that they would add up over time, so every now and then your account would go down by a cent, but a big provider's website would get some real revenue out of the millions of hits.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678422)

There are places that do this.

Tarsnap [tarsnap.com] uses prepaid micropayments to back your data up to Amazon's cloud. Slashdot [slashdot.org] is a site which uses it to provide subscribers with a few nifty extras, and they deduct per pageview.

The thing is, for micropayments to work, you have to charge a large (relative to the costs per widget) amount all at once, and in most cases, consumers have to prepay.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (5, Funny)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676612)

Er excuse me, but I thought micropayments were something like $0.05 or less?

No, that would be centi-payments. Micro-payments is more along the lines of $0.000005
You also have milli-payments $0.001 and nano-payments $0.000000005 or, if you feel like buying RIAA products you also have mega-payments of $5,000,000.00

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676818)

bingo. calling 99c isn't a micropayment, it's well above that.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676868)

I'd go for a practical definition: 'minor treat sized'. Vending machine can of soda or chocolate bar, an amount so small that the question isn't "Can I afford it?" but "Do I want it?"

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

GuruBuckaroo (833982) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678012)

Dismissing for the moment the criticism of the platform itself, SecondLife has the micropayment system down - each L$ is worth about $0.003, or on average L$264/US$1. That's been more or less the same value for 5 or more years, and millions of US$ worth of L$ purchases happen every month in-game. Granted, most purchases are of the L$100-and-up variety, but the option is there for true micropayments. L$1 price tags are often added to "free" items just to keep them from being an all-you-can-grab - it's amazing the lengths some SL users will go to avoid spending one third of a cent.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

Panamazn (1795838) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678404)

how can you buy anything online for under $5 with shipping included.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

jlebrech (810586) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676270)

great, now if you have $4.88 in the account you have to buy paperclips off ebay?

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (3, Funny)

characterZer0 (138196) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676290)

I will sell you a paperclip for $4.88 plus shipping. I will wrap it in four one dollar bills; my studies have shown that US currency never fails to protect paperclips from damage in transit.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676318)

So, if the minimum is $20 and you aren't allowed to withdraw, that means you basically pay them $20 that you'll never see again?

The basic question is, what happens if your account falls below $20?

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676340)

Can't you pay your partner, or another account you own? Not a withdrawal to a bank account, but a payment into one?

I'm not sure this would be allowed. What if you want to keep money from the courts - you could pay a bunch of money in and be unable to hand it over.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

Monchanger (637670) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676824)

If that money is still considered cash I'm sure a court could get it back from the company to pay off your debts real quick. On the other hand, if it's points/gamebucks/etc., there's probably some kind of fair-market-value conversion which would just cost you even more because you'd only get pennies on the dollar.

Remember: For all its flaws, the law is usually optimized for ripping money away from other people, assuming it's on your side.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (2, Interesting)

Corbets (169101) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676450)

Not to defend their featureless-ness, but I imagine the restrictions come from the cc-based account loading. If you can pay in with q credit card, then withdraw, you get interest free cash advances.

Or it might just be a poorly-thought-out service. ;)

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676772)

You see a limitation I see an opportunity to make money! 1% or 10 dollars whichever is lesser and you cover my paypal fees I will make sure your money gets into your account.

Re:Careful not to load it up too much (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677398)

So they must be aiming at a different market, because the idea that withdrawals to a bank account aren't available means businesses will flee faster than Speedy Gonzales.

Alternative? (5, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676136)

For something that's supposed to compete with PayPal, it's amazingly limited.

You can't withdraw your own funds.
You can't transfer funds to anyone who isn't a family member unless they are a business, and Payclick gets a cut of the transfer to a business. (Note that I'm not faulting them for making money here, just stating facts.)
You can't pull right from a bank or credit card. You must pre-deposit funds.

Combine that with the fact that almost no services use it yet and it's not a very good offering.

Re:Alternative? (2, Interesting)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676292)

Yeh, it seems like it will tank. It's so restricted that you'd not even consider it for your kids.

While paypal can be dickheads, at least they let you take cash out of your account.

Re:Alternative? (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676866)

Given how often accounts get frozen "for security reasons" without any form of useful recourse, I'd say that Paypal encourages you to take cash out of your account as fast as possible...

Re:Alternative? (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677490)

To be fair, I've been using PayPal as a buyer, occasionally a merchant, and frequently a service supplier (having people pay me via PayPal for my web development), since about 2001. They've only ever frozen my account once, and I just had to call and get it unfrozen, which they did while I was on the phone.

While I think that you should withdraw all your money daily at least (especially if you're a merchant), I don't think you should avoid it just because of their antifraud team.

Re:Alternative? (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678458)

Can they still pull money from your bank account in the event of a fraud alert?

Re:Alternative? (1)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677442)

Agreed. Dead on arrival. I guess Visa aren't really following technology very closely, or they had their lawyers come up with the technical solution.

Re:Alternative? (2, Funny)

Abstrackt (609015) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676664)

This service sounds like the Zune of money transfers.

Re:Alternative? (1)

Civil_Disobedient (261825) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676682)

Sure, sure, except...
THEY ARE NOT PAYPAL.

So at least they got that going for them.

Re:Alternative? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32678066)

And you can't see what the fees, or the exchange rate is from the front page.
We also have a 'cash passport' but the in/out fees/take is over 5%! Ripoff.
(It may be well hidden, but under .au I am fairly certain Terms and Conditions must be shown)
As for micropayments, SWIFT, cash reporting authority obligations probably mean no .au based business may compete. I'd like to see someone set up a shop with 1 cent items.

Re:Alternative? (1)

sitkill (893183) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678760)

Look up zoompass or obopay as some alternatives (beyond Paypal). There's actually a surprisingly lot of alternatives out there, just gotta find the one thats right for you.

Re:Alternative? (1)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678798)

"You can't pull right from a bank or credit card. You must pre-deposit funds."

Er, sorry, but how is this a bad thing? The only reason i'm relatively okay with paypal pulling money from my account is because it's hooked to a credit card, which has at least some fraud protection in place. I'm still whittling away at the initial amount of virtual paypal dollars (or whatever you call that limit) because i'm not willing to attach a bank account.

Why is it that i'm concerned about this with paypal when a lot of my other accounts have the same ability to freely transfer funds? Well first of all because paypal is the Windows of the online financial world. It's the big target that all the hackers and scam artists aim for, whereas there are hundreds of other banks and credit card companies. More importantly PayPal is not a bank, and doesn't have to work under the numerous safeguards and regulations that regular financial institutions do. And most importantly, i've heard way too many stories about PayPal screwing people over one way or the other.

The other issues you mentioned are serious problems, but i have absolutely no complaints about the idea of having to pre-load a payment mechanism that is intended for use primarily over the internet. Any time i want to use it i'll already be at a computer and if necessary can transfer some more funds into it.

What took them so long??? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676144)

What do people see on many cart systems, VISA and paypal to use VISA.
How many years did it take for a credit card company to work out they could do this more directly?
So we have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS [wikipedia.org] like system for the net.
"The service is free for consumers and the merchant fees are competitive with other offerings" is a good aspect.

Here they go again... (1)

Confused (34234) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676164)

As usual, the success will be decided by two factors:

1) How cheap, reliable and easy it is for customers and vendors to implement. If I can't put up a collection pot for pennies without up-front costs going to Visa, the system is dead before it arrived.

2) How much can the provider be trusted. In that respect Paypal is a total mess and deserves to be shot down.

But going by previous attempts by Visa and Mastercard, the system will be a big pain in the behind for all concerned and people will get quickly get fed up being gouged by Visa, so it'll wither away just like the rest.

Re:Here they go again... (3, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676304)

Paypal is a mess simply because it was designed to screw customers from day one. they worked like hell to make sure they operated outside banking rules where there are laws protecting people and their money. Paypal can steal all your money and you cant do crap about it because they are "not a bank"

People who are suprised by paypal problems simply dont pay attention or dont read what they agreed to. I've had zero problems with paypal for the past 11 years only because I know what they are, what their rules are and I play inside their ruleset. You have to play by Paypal's rules or they will go home taking their ball and your ball, chair, couch, ipod, and keys to your bank account.

This is the same for any BANK you might use. Learn their rules carefully. Because they also take joy in screwing you.... Just deposited a $5000.00 in cash at 9:00am if I write a check at 3:00pm the check will bounce. because they process debits before payments as a lump at 12:01am the next morning.

Banks love screwing people this way.

Re:Here they go again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676754)

"Just deposited a $5000.00 in cash at 9:00am if I write a check at 3:00pm the check will bounce. because they process debits before payments as a lump at 12:01am the next morning."

Lucky you. If I deposit $5000 this morning, if I write a cheque for $3000 any time in the next 6 days that cheque will bounce.

"Banks love screwing people this way."

Yes they do.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

raynet (51803) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677160)

Lucky you. If I deposit 5000eur this morning, the bank says that they haven't offered cheque services in years but instead I can use my bank card for payments and the money is available immediately after depositing it.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676820)

If you deposit $100,000, your bank will suddenly become your best friend. If it is a check rather than cash they will call the issuing bank to verify so the money becomes immediately available to you (and them).

Oh, so right (1)

BenEnglishAtHome (449670) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677504)

Back when I typically had USD$1K-$3K in my bank they couldn't remember my name.

Now that there's about a hundred times that much in my accounts, the bank managers greet me by name the second I walk in the door.

The difference in treatment is jarring. I don't think I'll ever become fully accustomed to it.

Re:Oh, so right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32678886)

I have around 5000 USD in my bank account at most times. Even at the rare times when I've had 200 USD I always get called by name. Not only that they are willing to have a conversation about children, weather, or what-have-you. My advice to you is get a better bank.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

parc (25467) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676976)

BOFA at least processes transactions in a FIFO manner as of some date earlier this year. Depending on your account, deposits from verifiable sources are credited and available for payment backing immediately on receipt. I haven't had a deposit held for verification of funds in a couple years. Online bill payments are deducted when they are actually paid, not when you schedule the transaction, and I've had EXCELLENT service from them when bill payments have gone afoul, even when it wasn't BOFA's fault. they've even paid MY late fees on bills that didn't get processed by the payee on time.

This isn't to say BOFA doesn't have issues -- I've spent more time in a "banking center" than I'd care to -- but they have addressed a LOT of my issues with them over the last couple years.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677274)

Because they also take joy in screwing you.... Just deposited a $5000.00 in cash at 9:00am if I write a check at 3:00pm the check will bounce.

I've been burned by this. It's illegal for me to "work the float", it should be illegal for the bank to, as well. There's no reason it should take so long. But banks and other corporations have better lobbyists than voters do.

The whole system is designed to let corporations screw over voters. Democracy at work? I'd say plutocracy, not democracy.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677574)

If I deposit cash at one of Bank of America's ATMs, it'll post the same day, immediately, if I make the deposit before 8pm local time. Also, I went negative by accident the other day and they alerted me via text. I immediately moved money from savings to checking, and wasn't charged an overdraft fee.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678376)

Just deposited a $5000.00 in cash at 9:00am if I write a check at 3:00pm the check will bounce. because they process debits before payments as a lump at 12:01am the next morning.

How on earth? If it’s being electronically debited sure, but for a normal paper check even if it was deposited before banks close today it’d still have to go through the clearing house. Unless maybe they deposited it at the same bank it was written from (your bank) and they did everything in-house, but that’s a stretch.

Re:Here they go again... (1)

sitkill (893183) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678836)

This is the same for any BANK you might use. Learn their rules carefully. Because they also take joy in screwing you.... Just deposited a $5000.00 in cash at 9:00am if I write a check at 3:00pm the check will bounce. because they process debits before payments as a lump at 12:01am the next morning. Banks love screwing people this way.

Not to be a troll, but that has more to do with your standing with the bank, and less to do with the bank. There is a clearing process that occurs whenever you deposit anything, and if you are in good standing, you can have that clearing process removed. With most deposits of "untrusted" sources, a bank will hold a request for money until it can clear the money request (which is about 3 days for businesses, shorter for banks).

I've deposited 10k into my bank account and withrdrew it immediately, but hey, I'm pretty sure someone will jump in with another small sample to prove me wrong.

Yes! yes! yes! (-1, Flamebait)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676180)

In your face Paypal! May I never have to to use your rip off service again.

Re:Yes! yes! yes! (2, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676334)

In your face Paypal! May I never have to to use your rip off service again.

Paypal have been getting away with very dodgy behavior for some time now. They richly deserve the reputation they have earned as scammers out for a fast buck.

However that doesn't mean this new alternative is any better.

but where is it? (1, Interesting)

naplam33 (1751266) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676194)

payclick.com is a parked domain, and i can't find info on visa.com

Competition (4, Insightful)

Wowsers (1151731) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676200)

How will Visa compete with shady business practices; keeping money from users, putting a stop on user accounts because there's a solar flare, not giving a damn about client data confidentiality, not being regulated as a bank. These things make it a tough act to follow for Visa.

Re:Competition (3, Insightful)

chill (34294) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676248)

You honestly ask this? Of a CREDIT CARD COMPANY!? PayPal is a piker compared to Visa.

Re:Competition (2, Informative)

Spad (470073) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676284)

Credit card *processor*

Re:Competition (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676540)

Visa is not a processor. They do virtually nothing but license the Visa brand to banks and card issuers and skim a percentage off the top of every transaction. The banks do all the work. The merchants take all the risk.

Re:Competition (4, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676362)

You honestly ask this? Of a CREDIT CARD COMPANY!? PayPal is a piker compared to Visa.

Visa are honest and trustworthy compared to paypal..

Re:Competition (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676426)

This is like comparing 2 piles of dung, no matter how much you polish it, in the end it still smells like dung.

Re:Competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676640)

There was a Mythbusters episode where they polished dung they did get a nicely polished sphere of dung but they never mentioned any smell to it after it was polished.

They finally solved the problem of polishing dung by finding a fellow who had accomplished the art of polishing dirt.

All that aside, Does anyone thing that this is going to really compete with paypal in their biggest sandbox, eBay, where eBay and paypal are owned by the same company and you're pretty much limited to using paypal only to pay for your purchases on eBay?

Re:Competition (1)

beau_west (1114973) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676452)

Visa are honest and trustworthy compared to paypal..

Tell that to all the people have to deal with their collection agencies.

Re:Competition (2, Insightful)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676700)

What, the people that spent more than they can afford?

IMHO Visa is just the international payment service or "an American global payments technology company" (as defined by Wikipedia).

That your particular bank is screwing people giving them loans they know cannot be paid back is a different thing.

Anyhow, I stopped using Paypal some time ago... not because I was scammed or because I wasn't happy but because PayPal is broken.

I moved from the UK to Germany and the idiots want me to close and open again my account, and the hassle I have to endure to do that is more than I have time to endure. Shit, they ask me to call PayPal... where? in Germany or in the UK? an the last time I called PayPal in Germany I was answered by an Indú sounding girl who didn't have a clue of what she was doing and I could not understand shit of what she was saying.

So, I would gladly accept a real paypal alternative, specially so that I provide my credit card ONCE to this "trusted source" and then just give my money (through them) to other companies... So far, Google Checkout has been the only plausible option.

Re:Competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676998)

So far, Google Checkout has been the only plausible option.

Google Checkout doesn't exist for 95% of the world, so it's not an option at all.

Re:Competition (1)

Abstrackt (609015) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676746)

Visa are honest and trustworthy compared to paypal..

I don't use Paypal for anything mission-critical but I've had far better experiences with them than I have with Visa.

Paypal has never frozen my account for "suspicious activity" (three purchases from one company, each purchase froze it), frozen my account without notifying me for two weeks, well after I'd figured it out on my own when I couldn't make a purchase and had already resolved it, or frozen my wife's account when mine was the one that got compromised despite their assurances hers would be fine.

Re:Competition (2, Insightful)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677582)

Paypal has never frozen my account for "suspicious activity" (three purchases from one company, each purchase froze it), frozen my account without notifying me for two weeks, well after I'd figured it out on my own when I couldn't make a purchase and had already resolved it, or frozen my wife's account when mine was the one that got compromised despite their assurances hers would be fine.

I've never had my PayPal account frozen either.

Having said that, Visa and PayPal both freeze accounts for suspicious activity... however PayPal doesn't just freeze one account, but every account that account has interacted with recently.

I can only recall Visa having frozen my account once; that wasn't really an account freeze either, it was just a block of a single merchant for a short time. Why? Because I was ordering the same item repeatedly to gift to friends on Steam. This was back when Orange Box was $10 (or was that $5?). They started blocking the transactions after the third for suspicious activity.

That's great. That's what Visa is supposed to do. My only problem is that they wouldn't unblock it even after I called them.

Oh well, I convinced several of my friends that I didn't gift Orange Box to to buy it on their own anyway.

(P.S. This is more of a failing of the Steam store. You can't gift single items, only an entire transaction.)

Re:Competition (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677402)

Visa are honest and trustworthy compared to paypal.

Willie Sutton was an honest man compared to Bernie Madoff. Timothy McVeigh was a peaceful man compared to Osama Bin Laden.

Re:Competition (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678034)

Visa are honest and trustworthy compared to paypal

And Ebola is pleasant compared to Necrotizing Fasciitis.

Re:Competition (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676312)

I think it's safe to say that the lax regulatory environment that these internet cash services currently operate in, and the strict regulatory environment recently created in the US for credit card companies, have nothing to do with their decision.

Simple (1)

hellfire (86129) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676846)

By harping on and advertising on those very things that you just mentioned.

I'm still skeptical, but here's hoping that because VISA is a financial institution and subject to regulation, unlike Paypal, that they will be forced to do things in the best interests of their customers, or that additional companies getting into this market highlights to the government the need for more regulation.

In the long run, I'm cautiously optimistic on this one.

Analogy Time Again (1)

lobiusmoop (305328) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676206)

"Lobiusmoop has entered the micropayment processing space with 'shiny pebbles', a payment scheme based on the exchange of pretty trinkets picked up from the finest beaches of the planet. Integration with the rest of the world economy is not there yet, but parents can monitor the amount of pebbles their under-18 children have to exchange.

Yes, I know it's Visa, but PayPal seems to be dominant in the online micropayment world, and until you integrate with that somehow, I can't see the scheme getting the traction it needs there.

Re:Analogy Time Again (2, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676380)

"Lobiusmoop has entered the micropayment processing space with 'shiny pebbles', a payment scheme based on the exchange of pretty trinkets picked up from the finest beaches of the planet.

All money is just 'shiny pebbles'. It has no value except in the fact that other people value it.

Better Visa's shiny pebbles than paypal's. Better a central bank than either of them.

Re:Analogy Time Again (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676628)

Better a central bank than either of them.

Reading this, I wonder if you have been paying attention to the economy for the last couple of years...

There are a lot of corporations whose money I would trust more than a central bank's, and a lot of individuals whose money I'd trust even more, if they were to issue it.

Re:Analogy Time Again (2, Insightful)

Wildclaw (15718) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677244)

All money is just 'shiny pebbles'. It has no value except in the fact that other people value it.

Not really true. The value of a currency lies in both the willingness and requirement to make use of it.

That is why you aren't allowed to declare your incoming in ounces of gold, and why dollars are legal tender for all debt. To force you to use the currency for some things, giving it a direct value that isn't purely based on faith in the market.

Re:Analogy Time Again (1)

mitgib (1156957) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677588)

All money is just 'shiny pebbles'. It has no value except in the fact that other people value it.

Not really true. The value of a currency lies in both the willingness and requirement to make use of it.

That is why you aren't allowed to declare your incoming in ounces of gold, and why dollars are legal tender for all debt. To force you to use the currency for some things, giving it a direct value that isn't purely based on faith in the market.

The dollar, like the Euro, is a debt backed fiat currency. It has no value other then what these governments are willing to accept it as, when the population stops accepting it as a form of exchange, is when the real troubles will begin.

Re:Analogy Time Again (1)

lobiusmoop (305328) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676446)

I disagree. My new ceramic currency is backed by something physical, therefore hyperinflation can't happen. So it is better than just about all the existing currency in circulation today. And I'll watermark my pebbles to prevent fraud anyway. Anyone exchanging unbranded pebbles will be thrown in jail!

Get your shiny pebbles today! :)

Re:Analogy Time Again (1)

No. 24601 (657888) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678354)

>

Yes, I know it's Visa, but PayPal seems to be dominant in the online micropayment world, and until you integrate with that somehow, I can't see the scheme getting the traction it needs there.

No, sorry. Paypal is not dominant in the *micropayment* world. Citation please?

nice! (0)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676212)

Another way to be in debt! Where do i sign up?

they need a trendy name (1, Informative)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676218)

something vaguely absurd, fun-loving, and suggestive of a shiny happy web future

how about... hmmm... something unique and original:

flooz!

or

beenz!

(for those of you lucky enough not to live through the debacle of the dot-com crash:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooz.com [wikipedia.org]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beenz.com [wikipedia.org] )

Re:they need a trendy name (2, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676674)

Note that one of the problems with Beenz was that operating a parallel currency is illegal in a lot of the world. One of the new laws that snuck in in the EU last year (or possibly the year before, I lose track) changed this, explicitly making it legal throughout the EU. Somewhat surprisingly, this did not receive much news coverage.

Anything is better than Paypal... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32676236)

No matter how limited or simple it is at the moment, I'd rather wire money through my friend the ex-Nigerian prince, before using Paypal again.

They aren't thieves, or crooks, but they are a company with HORRIBLE BUSINESS PRACTICES, and go completely unregulated, thanks to lack of oversight from any meaningful government agency.

So yea, any competition in this space is a welcome idea.

Re:Anything is better than Paypal... (2, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | more than 4 years ago | (#32678186)

Here is one thing I like about paypal. I have my account set up to use a one time pad. This in itself is a layer of security. I do not have it linked to my bank account, i only have it linked to my credit card.

I think one issue that people have with paypal is that they expect it to be a credit card. It is not, it is just an way to exchange cash without metting. It really has no level of security beyond that. If one gets the product or not, that is another matter. I like not having to provide credit card credentials to arbitrary people and firms on the internet. Paypal is expensive to use, but I find it to be generally effective.

What I do not like is Verified by Visa. It only wants a weak password and if someone gets the password then they can take all your money. The security check to create a Verified by Visa account is also meaningless, requesting little more information than is required to complete a transaction in the normal way. Verified by Visa is security theatre.

Fail (3, Informative)

perrin (891) | more than 4 years ago | (#32676276)

I wanted to keep an open mind, even though going by previous ventures anything labelled "micro-payments" seem doomed to failure. So I went looking for information. But there is hardly any useful info to be found, at least not on their home page. The link that advertises "selling digital content easier and faster" for vendors leads not to any information... but to an email address. Yay for simplicity!

Also, take a look at their page for sellers. Would you buy from this shady looking guy [payclick.com.au] ? What are these people thinking.

Re:Fail (1)

FSWKU (551325) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677748)

Looks like a younger Hugh Laurie in a poorly made Assassin's Creed costume.

Security and Verified by Visa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32677336)

I'm not sure I can trust the company that promotes Verified by Visa - which actively reduces online security for the customer - as a way for customers to protect themselves.

Let me know when you can use this on eBay... (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677584)

Oh wait, its a direct competitor to eBay owned PayPal. eBay is already trying to come up with justification as to how "PayClick is VERY dangerous because it provides no protection against sellers who take your money and never deliver product so we cannot allow people to pay for eBay auctions with it"

Online Checking (1)

Kurt Granroth (9052) | more than 4 years ago | (#32677602)

I am not seeing the appeal of this service. It's not as flexible as PayPal and not as wide-spread as Visa/Mastercard debit cards.

In fact, this sounds a lot like a (more limited) version of an online checking account. I set one up for my daughter when a significant part of her allowance was being spent online (iTunes, Amazon, etc) anyway. Her allowance is auto-transferred to her account every week and she uses the supplied Visa debit card to make purchases. Since it's Visa, it's accepted everywhere. I can track all of the spending, too, since everything is online.

I could maybe see this being appealing if it truly did micropayments but as long as their definition of micro is "less than $20", it just doesn't make sense.

Sweet Jesus Mary and Joseph YES (4, Interesting)

MikeURL (890801) | more than 4 years ago | (#32679098)

I may not LOVE Visa but I loathe paypal and Ebay. I, for one, will be happy to use any service that competes with Paypal and has the resources to do it right.
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