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New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power, Makes Less Noise

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the slices-dices-etc dept.

XBox (Games) 176

Vigile writes "Microsoft unveiled a new Xbox 360 S console at E3 this month, and without delay the new machine has been dissected and tested. The most dramatic change is the move to a single-chip CPU/GPU hybrid processor that is apparently being built on the 45nm process technology from GlobalFoundries, AMD's spun-off production facilities. With the inclusion of the new processor, the Xbox 360 S uses much less power (about 30-40%) compared to previous generation machines, and also turns out to be much quieter as a result of a single, larger fan. This article has photographic evidence of the teardown, with comparisons between this Valhalla platform and the older Falcon system, along with videos of the reconstruction process and noise comparisons." The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.

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176 comments

AdDot (-1, Troll)

Legion303 (97901) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675708)

Thanks for the inline marketing, Slashdot.

Re:AdDot (4, Interesting)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675796)

a teardown to PCB level of a new large revision of a gaming device isnt news for nerds?

Sure /. could have given it a better title, but TFA is actually quite interesting

As for the slim machine, if i didnt already have two 360's, i might consider getting this, less noise and all, but as it is, i have enough gaming hardware.

And still slightly annoyed by the fact that this probably means no new xbox for two more years or so..

Re:AdDot (1)

Saint Gerbil (1155665) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675858)

I've had 6 die and currently have 2, but I'm seriously thinking of upgrading just so it doesn't sound like a jet engine and die in a year.

Re:AdDot (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675886)

I had one of my two 360s (a first version one) die on me, but MS replaced it free of charge, so for now i'm good.

If either of my machines die, i'll consider replacing it with a slim (and selling the old replacement or something..)

Re:AdDot (1, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676406)

Do you have to be a masochist to own a 360 or something? I mean I usually hate all the fanboy one-upping and such, but in all seriousness, why would you even put up with that kind of shit?

The only reason I started buying consoles was to get away from Microsoft software (Windows gaming is great, as long as you can put up with Windows). To then subject yourself to both MS hardware and software seems like lunacy to me.

Re:AdDot (1)

ifrag (984323) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676638)

Do you have to be a masochist to own a 360 or something? I mean I usually hate all the fanboy one-upping and such, but in all seriousness, why would you even put up with that kind of shit?

Well, for one, there are the exclusive titles. For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it. And I've also personally found Forza to be another good exclusive. That's basically what sells me on a console or not, is there enough exclusives to justify it. Everyone is going to have a different threshold on that. Maybe it's not a fair comparison because I didn't go with the Xbox 360 as the only system. I got in on it by the time their revision included the built in HDMI port, and haven't had any hardware issues with it.

It could also be a social thing. If your friends are getting Xbox'en then even if the titles are available on the PS3, they are typically hosted on separate servers, so you need to be using the same console.

Re:AdDot (4, Insightful)

haroldK (96625) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676990)

It could also be a social thing. If your friends are getting Xbox'en then even if the titles are available on the PS3, they are typically hosted on separate servers, so you need to be using the same console.

That's the Only reason I bought a 360. I had a PS3 already, but I wanted to get some gaming done with my local friends. All the folks with whom I played PC games had moved 2 time zones away and it was hard to schedule gaming time. All the local people had 360s and were playing Halo 3 and Gears of War. Before that I never would have considered playing an FPS on a console.

  It turns out I have a lot of fun with the 360 and play on it by myself as much as I do on the PS3. I've learned not to be a snob when it comes to consoles because the only person losing out would be me.

Re:AdDot (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677022)

I'm aware of all those reasons, but none of them are enough to sell me on the idea. If I wanted a nice social experience, I'd stick with Windows. Pretty much everyone has a Windows PC. Likewise a lot of "XBox only" titles have ended up coming out for Windows too.. and at least if you do it that way you get to choose the quality of your hardware.

It's good that they've finally sorted out the 360 issues, but I just don't really trust MS to do a good job of anything. They do have the odd decent product around (and ~10 years ago they used to have some cracking games for Windows with Midtown Madness, Mech Warrior etc), and I've been able to tolerate them in the working world since XP came out, but after Vista and the 360 RRoD problems, they've gone back to being a joke in my eyes. For me to buy an MS console they'd have to execute the whole thing flawlessly and provide a much better incentive than Halo (seriously, I'd rather play Quake I/II multiplayer, even without mods).

Re:AdDot (2, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677252)

Disclaimer: I own gaming consoles from many different companies (Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, etc), and although I use Windows 7 on my gaming rig, I have Ubuntu running on everything else.

but after Vista and the 360 RRoD problems, they've gone back to being a joke in my eyes

That's a shame. Windows 7 and everything from the Falcon revision or later for the 360 have been solid, well-made products. For me, the 360 was worth it for a few reasons:

1. Exclusives. There are some Xbox Live Arcade exclusives ('Splosion Man, Trials HD, and Shadow Complex alone are almost worth the price of the console) and some retail exclusives (Fable II and soon III, the Crackdown series, Chromehounds, Dead Rising, etc.)

2. The controller. I know that the dual shock is considered to be the "pinnacle" of controller design...but fuck that. I've always found it to be a bit awkward to hold, and slightly too small. The 360 controller is, aside from the horrendous d-pad, just about perfect. YMMV, of course.

3. This no longer applies, but keep in mind that the 360 was the first 7th gen console that was released, and ushered in a new era in complexity for consoles (admittedly, complexity that we PC gamers had enjoyed for nearly a decade, but still...it was exciting.) My time spent with friends when the 360 first launched are some great memories, so even though the console is only five years old, I already have nostalgia associated with it.

Re:AdDot (1)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677350)

For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it.

Yep. That's one reason I didn't buy a 360.

Re:AdDot (1)

Bakkster (1529253) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676992)

Do you have to be a masochist to own a 360 or something? I mean I usually hate all the fanboy one-upping and such, but in all seriousness, why would you even put up with that kind of shit?

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for."
— Bob Marley

Re:AdDot (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677068)

And Microsoft are the ones worth suffering for? Methinks the world has developed a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome..

Re:AdDot (4, Interesting)

Eraesr (1629799) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677152)

I've owned my XBox 360 for almost 3 years now and I've never had it fail on me or so much as even crash. I dunno what if I'm doing things right or other people are doing things wrong...

Re:AdDot (1)

Gulthek (12570) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677284)

Because it's worth the hassle. XBox Live is so far above the network gaming offerings from the PS3, Wii, and PC (yes, and PC) that it isn't even funny. My friends and family love the party feature, even spread out over some states we can all get together and have a fun time o' gaming that isn't restricted to one game. You can even use the feature to watch movies together, but we've never used that.

Re:AdDot (1, Offtopic)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675812)

It doesn't matter how much power it uses if it won't play Mechassault.

If I had the xbox folks to talk to, my line would be "It's the GAMES, stupid!"

When they forewent XBox compatibility, they lost me, really. That whole emulation thing... they didn't follow through. So they can keep their low power box. I'll just keep on keeping on with my old XBox (and the several spares I now have.) I did buy a 360 (because they were promising it would run the old games), but since it in FACT won't play my favorite game, the urge to upgrade it... zero.

When I pay $50 for a game, I expect that to count for something. I'm as annoyed about this as I would be if my bluray player wouldn't play DVDs.

When Sony put the PS2 compatibility in the PS3, they had me, and I bit. When they took it out later, I started collecting a few extras of the older machine cheaply. Same deal. Either respect my investment in software, or piss the hell up a rope. When I spend my money in the used machine market, it does Sony, Microsoft, etc., no good at all. If they want me to purchase a new machine... low power isn't going to do it.

Software, software, software, software. Compatibility. Software! COMPATIBILITY!

Re:AdDot (3, Informative)

Eraesr (1629799) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675900)

I don't understand the problem of your rant. If you want to play XBox software, then you buy an XBox. If you want to play XBox 360 software, then you buy an XBox 360. I understand that people can be a bit disappointed in the fact that the backwards compatibility of the XBox 360 isn't all that MS made it out to be, but since you already appear to have a bunch of old XBoxes lying around, I really don't see the relevance of your rant in the context of this article. MS ain't exactly hurting you with the release of the 360 S.

I can understand where he's coming from (1)

NotSoHeavyD3 (1400425) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676124)

The thing is both Nintendo and Sony managed to pull off backward compatibility with the Wii and PS3. (Well ok, it got dumped from the PS3 later on but it was there at first.) Plus it is more convenient to play them on the 360 for a number of reasons. For one I generally don't have my Xbox hooked up because I have no room to do that. (It was pretty huge and they didn't make the top flat so you can't put it in a stack of consoles. If they had just made the system flat on top I'd probably have my XBox hooked up right now.) Plus on top of that when I play an old game on the 360 it gets upscaled and I have the cables for HD play. With the XBox I don't even have component cables. (Mostly because I didn't get an HD TV until after I got my 360 so I never got around to it.) Anyway it would have been nice if I could play all my old XBox games on the 360. (Since that upscaling does make it look a bit nicer.)

Re:I can understand where he's coming from (1)

Eraesr (1629799) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677172)

I understand all that, but yet again, your rant has nothing to do with the release of the 360 S.

Re:AdDot (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675912)

Not sure if this helps, but apparently the 360 does play MA2:lone wolf, which in the end is just MA with some added features (hi-jacking and such)

If you love MA, just hit up your local gamestore/ebay for a used copy of MA2, it'll also give you a new single player campaign

IT IS EVIL (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32675726)

It has the evil eye of Sauron, watching us before it attacks! Look at the pics of it before it shuts down due to overheating! No it is my PRECIOUS!

Scratches disc and improved dpads (-1, Troll)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675740)

However not everything has improved, the Xbox360 Slim still scratches DVD [destructoid.com] just like the old one. I guess installing a few rubber pads would have been to complicated.

On the positive side there are rumors that the Dpad on the controller has been improved, however thats still a rumor and so far I haven't found photos of a disassembly of the controller.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (4, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675784)

It scratches DVDs if you move the console while it's operating, which we all learned not to do at the start of this console generation.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (5, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675852)

Just because people have lowered their standards and accept such defects doesn't make them any better.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (4, Funny)

feepness (543479) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675874)

Just because people have lowered their standards and accept such defects doesn't make them any better.

Microsoft has upped their standards. Up yours!

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (2, Insightful)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675934)

I really wonder about this, The sole reason everyone was moving their 360 was because of the gravity orientation on the 'Ring of light' anyway, has anyone ever tried rotating a ps1/ps2/saturn/dreamcast/gamecube/xbox in the same way?

i'd say the disc scratching is a non-issue, sure some pads would be nice, but any carefull gamer wouldnt move a running console around anyway..

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (4, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676174)

I have around 170 retail XBox 360 games, I've had 4 XBox's due to 3 RROD failures in the early years. I've had my dog knock my console over whilst playing once or twice and have knocked it over myself once and since moved it and placed it horizontally.

Through all this I've yet to have a single disc scratch. I suspect to get disc scratching you have to go through some quite speciifc motions, which seems to be what happens in this video- a quick abrupt shake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOjzuJByXg [youtube.com]

I also suspect that it's something that effects many DVD drives in general as there's nothing specific about the XBox 360's, only most people don't tend to give their DVD player or PC an abrubpt shake.

Just as most people have learnt that putting a device like a mobile phone or an iPod in your pocket along with your keys (the screen will get scratched) is a bad idea, I think this is probably one of those problems that just requires a bit of common sense to solve.

Certainly with all the general wear and tear my 4 XBoxs have faced and the amount of discs that have been through them, the amount of usage they've had, although the RROD has been a frustrating problem until the latest one which seems fine now at around 2 years old, disc scratching has been an absolute non-issue.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676234)

a mobile phone or an iPod in your pocket along with your keys (the screen will get scratched)

My iPod touch, Motorola Milestone, and even my old second-gen iPod nano say you're completely wrong about that. Sure, the body of the iPods gets horribly worn, but the screen? Hell no. It's all about the hardness.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676356)

My 3 year old nokia however, would disagree (so the mobile phone thing is valid)

Sure the ipod screen might be hard enough, but i just dont feel like risking it...

as for the back side, OMFG, within a week my ipod touch went from mirror finish to sanded glass... it looks awefull (and i bet its just a ploy to sell as much pouches/purses/sleeves as they can to the "oh shiney" crowd)

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676420)

Too many people don't understand the simple physics of what's involved in scratching something. Things can only get scratched if the item doing the scratching is harder than the item being scratched (look up Mohs hardness scale). Things like tempered glass are pretty fucking hard, and it takes quite a bit to scratch them. (Of course, this doesn't factor in impact trauma, which is a different beast.) I get a huge kick out of people claiming that their CDs/DVDs were scratched by paper sleeves/cases or other relatively 'soft' items. It's simply not possible, unless you managed to get some dirt or grit or something between the two.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676730)

You realise iPod nanos specifically were notorious for screen scratches, so much so that Apple owned up to it and had to pay out a $22.5million settlement? -

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html [cnet.com]

Sure not all device screens scratch easily, but the problem is you don't know which ones do until it's too late and you've scratched it, and as some quite blatantly do (you're welcome to do more Google searches yourself to find plenty of evidence to that effect) you've got to be quite stupid to risk it.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676764)

I suspect to get disc scratching you have to go through some quite speciifc motions, which seems to be what happens in this video- a quick abrupt shake:

I suspect it is simply is the direction in which you move it. One way will tilt your disc away from what scratch it, the other will move it right into it.

Wow, get a life (0, Redundant)

lacaprup (1652025) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677238)

I have around 170 retail XBox 360 games, I've had 4 XBox's due to 3 RROD failures in the early years.

Sunshine and fun are your friends.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (4, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675960)

Should MS really cover every violation of common sense? I don't really consider this to be a defect - the XBox360 was not designed as a portable platform, and as such there is a reasonable expectation that the unit should never be moved when in operation.

Console in a minivan (3, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676086)

the XBox360 was not designed as a portable platform

A lot of platforms that aren't ostensibly portable get used as such. Case in point: a game console run off an inverter in a minivan or RV for 3-hour road trips. These subject a machine to whatever road vibration the suspension doesn't absorb.

Re:Console in a minivan (3, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676474)

That doesn't really negate his point. You might as well get annoyed at toaster manufacturers for not making bath-friendly models.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone now pastes a link to a bath-friendly toaster, but the point is still that if you want to be gaming on the move, you buy a system that is designed to be portable!

Re:Console in a minivan (1)

ciderVisor (1318765) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676658)

I wouldn't be surprised if someone now pastes a link to a bath-friendly toaster

How about a Bath-friendly sandwich toaster?

Re:Console in a minivan (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676918)

I don't think anyone cares if you use a device outside of it's designed uses, but you certainly can't come crying back to the manufacturer when it doesn't work 100% optimally out of spec.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676560)

If you design a console to sit vertically, it ought to be able to withstand being toppled.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676864)

My TV sits vertically and I don't want to see what happens if it topples.

Ummmmm (2, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676082)

Since when is moving a unit while a disc is spinning a good idea? I've always assumed such a thing isn't a good plan. At the speeds those discs spin, there is going to be a non-trivial amount of gyroscopic force. Given that with normal DVD drives like you find in desktop computers and DVD players and the 360 the disc just floats on the spindle, movement wouldn't be good.

Now something like a laptop drive is more designed for that sort of thing, it grips the disc directly and has less room for it to move around. Of course there's tradeoffs including a higher cost, and lower speeds. However even then I try to keep the thing sitting still when it is reading something.

Just because something can't resist any and everything doesn't mean it has a "defect". There are real physical issues you have to contend with. My car won't survive a 40mph impact with a wall, it will crumple to the point it is destroyed. However, it isn't defective (in fact it is designed to fail so that the bodies inside it do not).

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676698)

You know, I try to avoid moving my computer while there's a disc spinning in the drive, too. It's just common sense.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675982)

Uhhh... I learned not to do that with home CD players. Back in the early 1990s. When cartridges were still the common game format (First PS was 1994).

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

ThePlague (30616) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676006)

It also scratches optical media if you don't move it while they're playing. I have seen this myself, and infer that internal vibration (fan + player itself) is sufficient to cause it. That's with one of the previous revs (purchased late 2008), so I don't know if the new rev is any better.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

lorenzo.boccaccia (1263310) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676502)

I've one of the falcon board and that too scratches the discs while stationary. it may be a resonance effects from the shelf on which it stands, but I've seen this effect too. fable II was getting more and more difficult to play, randomly showing the unreadable disc with greater frequency as time passed. now I'm the habit of copying stuff to the hard disc, luckily the software update that allowed this came before having any disc irreparably damaged.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

ThePlague (30616) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677148)

Well, yes, that helps, but you still need the disk to be recognized in order to play it. I've seen Fable 2, Assassins Creed 2, and one other game go bad due to scratches. It's not the environment, since the xbox360 always sits horizontally on a very sturdy piece of furniture, which itself rests on carpeting. The only other electronics on this large piece are a cable modem, wireless router, DVD player, and LCD TV. The only possible source of external vibration would be the DVD player, and it is never used while the Xbox is on plus it's fairly far removed. So, it's the xbox, not abuse.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

jochem_m (1718280) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676020)

a) That was a demo model, not a production model.
b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
c) Why would you need to move your console while it's running anyway?

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676070)

"b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever."

Portable cd music player and classic iPods have spinning discs and don't suffer from this problem. It is reasonable that a consumer product should be able to get through light abuse, it's 2010, not 1980 and cd technology has evolved, not Microsoft.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (2, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676074)

a) That was a demo model, not a production model.

I doubt it. The Xbox360 Slim was on sale just days later. It would be pretty retard to use a prototype instead of finished hardware for presentation when the final hardware is ready.

b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.

Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1. And Microsoft has known this for the last five years, yet refuses to do anything about it (no, warning sticker doesn't count).

c) Why would you need to move your console while it's running anyway?

It is not about need, it is about stuff that happens in real life use. Cats might bump into it, people might trip over cables or maybe you just bump the console a little while you try to insert a USB connector. Just see the destructoid video, guy wants to get a closer look, lifts it up, Alan Wake goes bye-bye. He shouldn't have done it, but neither should the Xbox360 destroyed the disc.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

Mike Mentalist (544984) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676372)

It is not about need, it is about stuff that happens in real life use. Cats might bump into it, people might trip over cables or maybe you just bump the console a little while you try to insert a USB connector. Just see the destructoid video, guy wants to get a closer look, lifts it up, Alan Wake goes bye-bye. He shouldn't have done it, but neither should the Xbox360 destroyed the disc.

If you lift a console up whilst a disc is spinning inside it then no-one is at fault other than the person who lifted it. No discs are getting scratched from people bumping their console slightly either.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677182)

If you lift a console up whilst a disc is spinning inside it then no-one is at fault other than the person who lifted it.

Name another console that scratches discs . If its so common sense and totally to be expected that discs get scratched that shouldn't be to hard, right?

No discs are getting scratched from people bumping their console slightly either.

And your argument is based on what data? Some earlier Xbox360 models scratched discs even when the console was not moved at all, so I wouldn't exactly trust that a disc-scratching Slim would not scratch discs on minor bumps.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

Gulthek (12570) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677320)

Good gravy man, are we talking about *tigers* bumping into the console or do you have it resting on some kind of frictionless surface?

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

ashridah (72567) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677358)

b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.

Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1. And Microsoft has known this for the last five years, yet refuses to do anything about it (no, warning sticker doesn't count).

Actually, there's a better reason to not do anything. The model of drive they use is significantly faster to read data than other more stable models. And since the specs of the system can't change (including data read times for games), then if all other drives are slower, then it can't be changed.

While it still sucks that you can scratch a disc, what i'd prefer to see is an explicit "do you want to copy this to the hard drive" the first time a disc goes in rather than having it hidden away in a menu that some people still don't know exists.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

bami (1376931) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676160)

The earlier models (at least mine did, spring 06) scratched discs even when stationary.
Then again, my Xbox went wrong at about any component, including a broken harddisk (it clicks when you insert it, xbox refuses to boot when its inserted with an e68, now using a 16GB flash drive as harddisk), a red ring of death that appeared about 3 years ago, and went away about three months later, and it scratched my Halo 3 disk for no obvious reason at all (standing vertically on a shock-free cabinet). Also produces graphic artifacts sometimes when its > 20 degrees Celcius (general garbage in rendertargets, models being drawn where some vertices are at random places), so that has something to indicate that the cooling isn't all that great. Along with that that the xbox in combination with my TV consume more then 350 Watts.

Then again, I bought it from a friend for cheap, and the only things I really do with it is dick around in GTA4, so I'm not too worried if this thing goes tits up, since then I can replace it with one of those new ones, which has HDMI, is smaller, uses less space, uses less power and has more room on its harddrive.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (4, Funny)

mikazo (1028930) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676168)

My friend moved his 360 while Gears of War was running and it left a huge gash in the disc. He tried playing the game and could only play multiplayer, so he gave it the toothpaste treatment. After that, he could only play single player. Toothpaste again, only multiplayer. After that, he had to toothpaste it depending what he felt like playing.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676860)

Parent is funnier if you read it with the "Ralph Wiggum" voice.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

sunking2 (521698) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676328)

This was pretty much solved when they gave the ability to run off the HD. which also for the most part solved the noise issue as well.

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676814)

Why the hell are you moving the console while the disc is spinning? What could possibly make you think that's a good idea?!

Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (1)

The Moof (859402) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677010)

It scratches DVDs if you move the console while it's operating

It also has a tendency to scratch discs without moving the console. It usually happens when the dvd drive is starting to fail (pretty common). I've lost a game to this problem, and I know many other that have as well.

Shouldn't? (2, Insightful)

feepness (543479) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675750)

The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.

They shouldn't have been a problem with any revision.

Re:Shouldn't? (-1, Troll)

Kiraxa (1840002) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675830)

"The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision." Except it still has the same faulty X-clamps. Has even worse overheating issues than the original. And has already had green dots of death. (they removed the RRoD in favor of a green dot.)

Re:Shouldn't? (1)

Flibberdy (780254) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675862)

"The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision." Except it still has the same faulty X-clamps. Has even worse overheating issues than the original. And has already had green dots of death. (they removed the RRoD in favor of a green dot.)

Got any links to back that up?

Re:Shouldn't? (1)

Kiraxa (1840002) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675890)

overheating issues: http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/06/21/xbox-360-slim-already-breaking-down/ [sankakucomplex.com] X-Clamp issue: http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/06/19/xbox-360-slim-rrod-risk-may-be-identical-to-older-models/ [sankakucomplex.com] Cant find the link for the reporter whose console already green dotted. (Some of the reporters at E3 were given slims.)

Re:Shouldn't? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676010)

The dot actually turns red when a malfunction occurs, not green...

Re:Shouldn't? (2, Insightful)

TouchAndGo (1799300) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676058)

While I have no idea whether the overheating issues are actually true or not, every single site that talks about it have the exact same screenshot and video, and despite the artifacting in the video the overheating warning never seems to come up. So either the overheating protection doesn't work at all, or something else is causing the artifacting.

Re:Shouldn't? (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676110)

> (they removed the RRoD in favor of a green dot.)

I think you mean they finally solved the RROD problem. That means the vacation freeze is off, no more overtime and a party on Friday.

The green dot has different symptoms and you'll have to open a new bug report. Oh, your account is locked out? Well file a bug report on that then. I'm off to Thailand for four weeks.

silence is golden (1)

jaggeh (1485669) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675758)

Its an excellent dissection, i just bought a new elite in march. now ill have to try sell it and get one of these. Just the drop in noise alone makes it worthwhile for me.

Processing power (1)

DeanLearner (1639959) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675804)

This might be considered a stupid question but...

The performance of this version will be the same as before, right?

Re:Processing power (1)

Tom9729 (1134127) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675822)

As much as they'd like to I don't think they can afford to force everyone to upgrade to the newest model to play games, and convincing developers to make two different versions (one for the original 360 and one for the new S console) seems unlikely. Instead this seems to be a similar case as to what Sony did with the PS2.

Re:Processing power (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675948)

Sony did this with every console they made, not just the PS2. The latest was the Slim version of the PS3 which was released last year.

But does it run XNA Creators Club? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676108)

But did Microsoft take support for XNA Creators Club out of the Xbox 360 S the way Sony took support for Linux out of the slim PS2 and took support for Other OS out of the slim PS3?

Re:But does it run XNA Creators Club? (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676632)

No, of course they didn't, that'd be stupid when it's the centrepiece of their current XNA strategy.

Re:Processing power (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675924)

It would be pretty unsurprising if the performance of the DVD(though, in the DVD case, the improved performance may have been traded off in firmware for quieter operation at performance equivalent to the old one) and/or HDD drives received a slight bump, just because it makes no economic sense to buy anything but whatever the current industry sweet-spot is, and that tends to improve over time.

As for CPU/GPU, though, there is just no way that they would play the platform fragmentation game without very good reason.

Could it be? How is this possible in this day and (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32675832)

Could it be? How is this possible in this day and age? I am impressed like, eh, like, hm, like yesterday's news. USA has a soccer team?

Yay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32675844)

...for implementing technological improvements.

Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (3, Funny)

Zuriel (1760072) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675864)

New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power, Makes Less Noise

...Has Less Cooling, Still Overheats

Why is it all hardware is set by default to run just barely below the overheat point? It just makes it more likely to die, sitting at those temperatures and then you have to replace it... wait, answered my own question.

Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675974)

Because customers like their hardware fast, cheap, small, and quiet?

If you make it slow, you barely have to bother cooling it.

If you make it expensive, you can invest in high-quality thermal engineering, loads of heat pipes, and whatever else is necessary.

If you make it big, you can just slap an obnoxiously gigantic heatsink and a couple of 120mm(or larger) fans on it, and it'll be fine.

If you make it loud, the magical world of 15k RPM fans is open to you(y hello thar, 1U servers...).

The fact that Microsoft are pretty much n00bs at hardware certainly didn't help the 360; but the industry-wide trend toward badly undercooled hardware, even wimpy stuff like routers that draw under 10 watts for the whole system and still flake out when it gets warm, can hardly be ascribed to their incompetence.

Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (5, Funny)

HopefulIntern (1759406) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676146)

Because customers like their hardware fast, cheap, small, and quiet?

Indeed, the ideal woman.

Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (4, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675976)

Less cooling my arse. It has a much larger heat-sink and a proper 120mm fan bolted right on top of it. It's got comparable cooling to my enthusiast desktop. Not to mention the simple, inescapable thermodynamic certainty that a machine that is consuming less electrical power will produce less heat.

Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32677194)

Not to nitpick, but loss to heat is a percentage that varies from device to device. It's theoretically possible for a device that uses less electricity to run a lot hotter.

Finally... (1, Insightful)

divisionbyzero (300681) | more than 3 years ago | (#32675984)

The Xbox 360 we should have got 5 years ago...

Re:Finally... (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676122)

If something like this came out five years ago, it would have been more expensive than a PLAYSTATION 3 was at the time.

Re:Finally... (4, Funny)

feepness (543479) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676250)

If something like a PLAYSTATION 3 had come out five years ago it wold have been more expensive than a PLAYSTATION 3 at the time.

Re:Finally... (3, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676902)

And if something like the Playstation 3 had come out 500 years ago, it would have caused cries of "DEMONIC SORCERY!" and led to a witch hunt.

Re:Finally... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676968)

Are you guys talking about PlayStation 3?

RRODs eliminated: we removed the red LEDs! (4, Funny)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676268)

The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.

I'm impressed with the clever solution they had to this: replace the red LEDs with green ones. Guaranteed, no more red ring of death. Just don't ask about the green ring of death [google.com].

Obsoletes Older XBox 360's - Thanks Microcrap! (-1, Flamebait)

gadlaw (562280) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676308)

Yah well, they may call the newer XBox 360's -' XBox 360's' but they aren't the same and the games being made now aren't the same either - I have an older XBox 360 and it flat out won't play the newer games. At least with computer games it gives some indication of which computers can play the game - here there is consumer fraud where the machines are represented as the same but that's not the case. The new consoles should be called XBox 365's and just freaking label the new games like Red Dead Redemption as exclusives for the 'New' XBox 365.

Re:Obsoletes Older XBox 360's - Thanks Microcrap! (1)

WankersRevenge (452399) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676442)

What are you talking about? I've had the same console since six months post launch and it plays games just fine. I'm guessing you either have a faulty box, or more likely, you like to do a little trolling in your off time.

Re:Obsoletes Older XBox 360's - Thanks Microcrap! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32676484)

Uhh, my 4 year old Xbox360 plays RDR just fine. Not sure what's your problem, but it's definitely not an "older xboxes don't play newer games" thing.

Re:Obsoletes Older XBox 360's - Thanks Microcrap! (1)

jaraxle (1707) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676508)

Yah well, they may call the newer XBox 360's -' XBox 360's' but they aren't the same and the games being made now aren't the same either - I have an older XBox 360 and it flat out won't play the newer games.

Umm... what? I would really like to know what games your XBox 360 won't play, because I have an original Arcade (replacement for the Core system) as well as a newer but still discontinued Pro (just 2 years old) and both of them play every game I've tried recently without issue. Not to flame you or anything, but you really should cite not only what model/revision of 360 you have as well as what games it will not play, and what it does instead of playing them.

~jaraxle

Re:Obsoletes Older XBox 360's - Thanks Microcrap! (1)

darkstar949 (697933) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676598)

I find this a bit surprising as I had one of the old Pro models (20Gb) that was playing modern games (i.e. Red Dead Redemption) with no problems. Granted I did upgrade to the Xbox 360 S but that primary because the new S model is quite compelling in terms of the 250 Gb hard drive and wireless built-in when you are almost out of hard drive space and are looking to cleanup the pile of cables by the TV.

Citation Needed (mod troll) (2, Informative)

cbhacking (979169) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676604)

I've seen absolutely no indication whatsoever of anything that backs up your claims (in fact, the game you mention came out before the 360 S, and the Wikipedia article on the topic doesn't contain any instances of the word "Slim"). Older revisions of the 360 are more prone to overheating, don't have built-in WiFi, and may have different ports - for example, the oldest models lack an HDMI port - but their CPUs and GPUs execute the same code at the same speed, they have the same amount of RAM, and they run the same OS* as the new Slim model. Kinect works just fine on older consoles. The new console may look different, but it runs exactly the same games.

  * I'm assuming you keep your console's OS up to date, typically done via the Internet but I believe it's possible with a DVD as well. Unless you've modded your console, the update process is completely trivial. If you *have* modded it, they *you* are the one with the XBox 365 (or perhaps 355), not "Microcrap" (as you so very maturely refer to the company whose product you chose to purchase).

Re:Citation Needed (mod troll) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32677100)

There are report that older 360s have more trouble with the newer security on the game DVDs. I don't follow the scene a whole lot anymore, but as I understand it Microsoft has been subtly changing the security sectors on the game DVDs, and the older 360s have DVD drives that suck. I don't know why Microsoft has always put crappy DVD drives in the Xboxes (right from the first one).

My first 360 died. My newer one had a crappier DVD drive. I couldn't play ODST originally.

It's a problem of quality control, not different tech.

Re:Obsoletes Older XBox 360's - Thanks Microcrap! (1)

wjsteele (255130) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676608)

The XBox 360 S will play every single XBox 360 game out there. It'll even play some of the older original XBox games.

Perhaps you've been telling everybody you had an XBox 360, when in fact you only have the original XBox. That was an entirely different system.

Bill

New design? (0, Troll)

drmitch (1065012) | more than 3 years ago | (#32676516)

Isn't the 360 something like 5 years old? Rather than releasing a new console, they just put a new face on it? Oh, and FINALLY managed to fix a problem that was nearly bricking every machine. Pathetic.

Great, lower the price of hard drives (2, Insightful)

British (51765) | more than 3 years ago | (#32677030)

I'm 2 years running into my 20 gig Xbox 360 unit. I really wish Microsoft would reduce the hard drive add-on prices to more realistic levels. The casing around the HD can't cost THAT much. It would almost be better to just buy the new slim unit(that has over 10 times the hard drive space I have) than to buy the 250 gig drive alone.

I could buy a 1 terabyte drive for my system for less than they charge for a 120 gig unit.

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