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'Telecommuting' In Formula 1

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the telemetry-at-a-distance dept.

Supercomputing 90

flewp writes "This New York Times article on Formula 1 racing gives some insight into the workings of one of the most high-tech sports on the planet — consider that a few years ago, Sauber's supercomputer ranked toward the top of all the supercomputers in Europe. The teams bring to each race dozens of mechanics, support personnel, etc.; but back at their home bases, perhaps thousands of miles away, countless more engineers work (with the help of gobs of computing power) to give each team that extra edge."

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hitting bottom HARD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32704656)

I met Psychiatrist Anita Hirsch at Mission Oaks Behavioral Health Unit
in July 1985.
I required no more than ten minutes to understand in quite a deep and
detailed way that she was floridly delusional.
It is well-known that the worst kinds of alcoholics never stop
drinking until they hit bottom. That's true of all of the worst kinds
of mental illnesses.
Last night I required no more that a twenty minute chat to completely
convince a Los Gatos police officer to put Dr. Hirsch under a suicide
watch. One more our and he and I were able to convince a half dozen
of his colleagues to join him.
I want Doctor Hirsch admitted involuntarily to a psychiatric hospital
you see. I don't want to murder her.
All I will require is a hardcopy of the following webpage and a brief
cover letter to have Dr. Hirsch' license to practice medicine
completely revoked within one week. It will only take as long as that
because the California Medical Board of course has the sense to fully
investigate claims such as mine:
      What I Learned at the California Institute of Technology
      http://www.softwareproblem.org/hallucinogenic-drugs.html [softwareproblem.org]
Perhaps you'll begin to understand why I worked so hard to make Doctor
Hirsch hit bottom so very hard because the first half of that entire
essay is about her special Mission of Healing devote to yours truly,
during which Doctor Hirsch committed the following felonies:
- Four Counts Attempted Murder
- One Count Child Endangerment
- Multiple Counts Criminally Negligent Medical Malpractice
And everyone at K5 thought I got so pissed of at her because she told
me something I didn't want to hear.
Your Servant,
Jonathan Swift

Race cars are for faggot rednecks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32704662)

So is Linux.

Intergalactic Planetary (2, Funny)

cosm (1072588) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704766)

I initially read that as 'Teleporting in Formula 1'. And after realizing my err in judgement, I came to the conclusion that my original interpretation will still probably come true before we get flying cars (if they ever to arrive).

Even funnier is the bloke who misreads it as 'Teleconferencing in Formula 1', those would be some badass conference calls, ones I might actually look forward to. It might make some of the mush-mouths get to the point fairly quickly when they have 700+ hp under their testicles, and are responsible for not decimating them in a fiery collision! Now thats synergy!

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (2, Funny)

PBoyUK (1591865) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704776)

"700+ hp"

Who else had to double/triple take on that to read hp as horsepower instead of hit points?

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (2, Funny)

cosm (1072588) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704794)

"700+ hp"

Who else had to double/triple take on that to read hp as horsepower instead of hit points?

Leeroy Jenkins, probably.

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (3, Funny)

mjwalshe (1680392) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704798)

700 Hp well how else did Felipe survive that crit to the head last year :-)

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (1)

mavasplode (1808684) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707628)

+2 Defence "Racing Helmet"

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705178)

Saying "even funnier" implies that your misreading was funny in the first place. It wasn't, it was pathetically unfunny. This leads me to believe that you, also, are pathetically unfunny and most likely morbidly obese.

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32708016)

current F1 cars are more like 830+ HP

the old 3 liter V10s from a couple years ago were pushing 970 HP, they would probably be over 1150 today if the engines hadn't been downsized to a 2.4 liter V8s.

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | more than 4 years ago | (#32709966)

i think the turbos got up to 1000hp from what Martin Brundle said on the BBC once

Re:Intergalactic Planetary (1)

giuda (1232902) | more than 4 years ago | (#32753756)

True

Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (2, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704808)

I mean. It's almost as boring as US car races but at least the tracks aren't ovals. God, almost fell asleep just at the thought.

Excitement. Look at Touring cars, motorcycles; British Superbikes, now there are a bunch of complete nutters. The TT at the Isle of Man. Even MotoGP is better.

Formula 1? What ...a ... bunch ... of ... BORING ... pussies.
 

Nah. (1)

ftpaddict (1842842) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704846)

This year's F1 season has been one of the most exciting since the early 90s. At least that's what I've been told. I've stopped watching since the days of Schumacher winning everything under the Sun.

Formula 1? (2, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705078)

e.g.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfPM77TsGaA [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h04yfZ4xIY [youtube.com]

The real head cases though race here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE7H6f9PVwk [youtube.com]

Formula 1?

Might as well not bother.
 

Re:Formula 1? (1)

Poorcku (831174) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705318)

amazing, especially the second and third link. wow.

Isle of Man TT (1)

Weedhopper (168515) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706136)

Dude, the Isle of Man TT is insane. At the speed at which those guys go, every 3mm dip or bump in the road leads to those huge wobbles and instability. The roads that make up the course are some of the smoothest and best maintained IRL roads in the world, but it's still not a glassy smooth, purpose built racetrack.

Re:Formula 1? (1)

strack (1051390) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707382)

motorbike racing is just a competiton about who can corner the hardest and still stay on their bike. booooring.

Re:Formula 1? (1)

poolmeister (872753) | more than 4 years ago | (#32711160)

I do agree that IOM TT racers are insane and the danger is extreme but I think you're underestimating just how difficult and scary driving an F1 spec car is, not to mention an F1 car would cream any motorbike on a racetrack.

One of Lewis Hamilton's lap of Instanbul for y'all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_z2fWNMcmE [youtube.com]

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32704902)

Not to mention it's rather wasteful.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704914)

Eh? Boring? You're not supposed to watch the races, the exciting stuff in Formula 1 takes place off the track, involving the directors of the sport: http://jalopnik.com/373884/f1-boss-max-mosley-caught-with-five-hookers-in-nazi-orgy-video-scandal [jalopnik.com]

Now that is a good, wholesome sport for the whole family to participate in!

Root for the hooker of your choice!

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

kaizokuace (1082079) | more than 4 years ago | (#32710192)

Yea F1 is like the best reality show ever. A bunch of rich dudes who participate in the same sport and all the drama that happens off track. Way better than Jersey Shore.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (2, Informative)

JamesP (688957) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705000)

F1 is usually less boring than:

- soccer
- baseball

Even with all the messy rules.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32712612)

You left out American football, with its 12 minutes of actual play time in a 3 hour game WSJ [wsj.com]

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

JamesP (688957) | more than 4 years ago | (#32715450)

I didn't forget, but I guess it's a tie in terms of being boring.

I may watch another american football match, but I certainly won't see a baseball match again.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

bertoelcon (1557907) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705192)

I mean. It's almost as boring as US car races but at least the tracks aren't ovals.

Nobody watches NASCAR for the racing, they watch it for the crashes.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

RockDoctor (15477) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707908)

Nobody watches NASCAR

True. I don't think it's even available on non-specialist channels here.

they watch it for the crashes.

And precisely how does this distinguish "NASCAR" from every form of racing since Ben Hur went round the Colloseum (sorry, Circus Maximus?) wearing his wristwatch?

OK, I'll make an exception - I doubt that the crashes at the dog track are particularly engaging. And people watching the Iditerod are probably more interested in the count of frostbitten toes, fingers and even heads.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705354)

How the fuck isn't the parent modded as a troll?

Moderate this ,|,,

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32707032)

Perhaps the races will get more interesting if there's more ,|,, gestures in front of the cameras?

Anyway, back to topic ... the TECHNOLOGY behind Formula One, that is.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (2, Insightful)

dominious (1077089) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705570)

to be honest it is kind of boring...

BUT I remember in my country there was a commentator who was really good at explaining all the technology going on behind each car, explaining how the weather and temperature affects the tires, the weight of the car on the turns etc..That made it quite interesting!

Touring Cars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705788)

Ah, but we don't get live coverage of Touring cars in this country. I would love to watch Aussie touring cars, or even the British 2ltre variety.
NASCAR sux.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (0)

camperdave (969942) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705840)

That's because it's not a sport. Neither is poker, figure skating, darts, diving, curling, billiards, or ballroom dancing. Sport is about competition, athletic endeavours with clearly defined non-subjective objectives: highest, fastest, furthest, moving a ball past a particular point, etc. If you can drink a beverage during play, it's a game, not a sport. If it has artistic components, it ain't a sport.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

strack (1051390) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707388)

im pretty sure who comes in first is pretty damn non-subjective.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (2, Insightful)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707914)

If you can drink a beverage during play, it's a game, not a sport.

So the Tour de France isn't a sport?

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32708034)

Well considering the G forces acting continuously on the body and the endurance required, you'll find that you require incredible physical conditioning to even attempt a Formula 1 race. Formula 1 drivers also operate within extreme limits, making split second decisions and consistently recording accuracies within mm.

You also seem to totally ignore the mental aspect of sport. Probably half your ability is grounded on your mental strength; drive, determination, pain barriers, belief, etc.

Finally, every sport has artistic components, and if you dont believe so you have very little understanding of the talent and abilities of athletes. Please explain why 'figure skating', a competition of technical merit judged by a panel is not a sport, yet 'boxing', a competiotion of technical merit judged by a panel, is a sport. Or do you believe boxing is a game?

The definition of a sport is simply an activity with a competitive element, requiring physical and mental input.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

camperdave (969942) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708798)

Well considering the G forces acting continuously on the body and the endurance required, you'll find that you require incredible physical conditioning to even attempt a Formula 1 race. Formula 1 drivers also operate within extreme limits, making split second decisions and consistently recording accuracies within mm.

And yet, it still comes down to who has the best mechanical device.

Finally, every sport has artistic components, and if you dont believe so you have very little understanding of the talent and abilities of athletes. Please explain why 'figure skating', a competition of technical merit judged by a panel is not a sport, yet 'boxing', a competiotion of technical merit judged by a panel, is a sport.

Boxing is judged by objective measurements: how many punches, which parts of the glove, which parts of the body. Artistic merit is subjective. A competitor can put in a top notch performance, and yet because the judge just broke up with his girlfriend, gets marked poorly. You never see instant replays in figure skating.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (1)

Danathar (267989) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705844)

Actually, not ALWAYS. Some F1 races are boring, lately they have been more interesting.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (2, Informative)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708630)

I mean. It's almost as boring as US car races but at least the tracks aren't ovals.

I love this argument. It only shows people who don't understand racing should just STFU.

Anyone who is a fan of motorsports understands that NASCAR ovals are far more "exciting" than Formula 1. Just because they go in circles doesn't make it more boring...in fact, it provides more overtaking opportunities. A typical F1 track has one or two overtaking spots on the track. If they were to make an "oval-like" track (sometimes called a roval, or road-course oval), there'd be more passing in Formula 1.

Also, if Formula 1 would require all drivers to start with the same tires and fuel load, it would be far more interesting. Instead, the winner always makes their "pass" in the pits and had the best tire strategy.

Re:Yeah. But Formula 1 is BORING! (0, Flamebait)

shiftless (410350) | more than 4 years ago | (#32714162)

Hey asshole, I know this might come as a shock to you, BUT-- everybody has different tastes! Imagine that, someone having a different opinion than you on what constitutes "exciting." They must hold this fucked opinion only because they haven't heard yours, and of course instantly recognized your great wisdom, right? I for one think drag racing is exciting. You might not, since it's only a boring -- YAWN -- straight line. Yet the difference is, that drag race will get me laid, while you still sit at home wanking to pictures of Superbike drivers.

PS--when you actually get behind the wheel of ANY race car, 300+ horsepower, let alone a 500, God forbid a 700, 800, 900, 1000+ horsepower car, and after the short ride when you've finished mopping your piss out of the seat, please get back to me on your enlightened opinion of what you consider "boring" or "exciting."

Off Topic but related, sorta (4, Insightful)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704818)

A couple of weeks ago I was watching qualifying for the Canadian Grand Prix on Speed Network, after which they showed the 24 hours of Le Mans, of which I watched about 10 hours worth. I was all excited and expecting the Canadian Grand Prix on Sunday but no, it was some stupid NASCAR recap show (not a race) then some "Two Rednecks in a Garage" show. Pardon me for wanting to actually see racing and not that other crap. If you like racing, (not the kind that is a constant left turn), it's hard to find in the US. I really can't stand NASCAR - it's boring as hell except for the crashes. The rest of the world can have their "football" with their "nils" and whatnot. I just want some real road racing and rally racing, and no, monster truck rallies don't count either. /rant

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (2, Interesting)

cosm (1072588) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704872)

Here is a good infographic of all the "different" tracks [nascar.com] . Their franchise track designer must have a bit of stifled creativity, except for the four road tracks. Oh, and the word 'infographic' is fucking stupid.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

cosm (1072588) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704906)

And in poor taste, I must also mention that the oval tracks were all done by a drunk guy twirling a compass, and the road tracks were done on his son's etch-a-sketch.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

NekSnappa (803141) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708802)

While I agree about oval track racing. You're way off WRT the road courses NASCAR runs on.
One of them hosts the Canadian Gran Prix, another was where the US Gran Prix was run before it was moved to Indy, and the other two host some of the best sportscar racing around.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

ground.zero.612 (1563557) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705152)

NASCAR is about speed. Plain and simple. I can't think of any other professional "league" or whatever that had to put in a speed limit...

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

kylegordon (159137) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707346)

20 years ago Circuit de La Sarthe put chicanes onto the Mulsanne Straight after a Peugeot hit 258mph with the Project 400 team. I see the NASCAR speed record is only 212.8mph too. In any case, the speeds were too high, and it wasn't about the racing any more.

Similarly, the NASCAR speed limits are to reduce costs and risks for teams during this economic weather, not for the enjoyment of spectators.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

Posting=!Working (197779) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708624)

Every form of motorsports has had a speed or distance reduction. NHRA doesn't race quarter miles anymore, they run 1000 feet. F1, Indycars, LeMans, Rally, etc. cars can all be built to be way faster than is safe to drive. They don't put in a literal speed limit, but they do limit the power of the engines, traction control devices, aerodynamics and electronics to keep it down.

The CART series cars had to cancel a race at Texas Speedway because some of the drivers were getting dizzy and disoriented from the G-forces. The track record was 225 MPH, the fastest cars were running over 236MPH.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707340)

And of those four road tracks, at least one appears to be primarily an F1 track rather than a NASCAR one. The clue's in the name of Montreal's track: Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (3, Informative)

tbuskey (135499) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705022)

Speed is the NASCAR channel. I try to watch MotoGP on it. There was a 3 way battle for 2nd place going on last week and they cut away from it, just as an attack was going on to show 1st place, 4-5 seconds ahead, cruising across the finish. *sigh*

There's lots of cutting away from a race to show a NASCAR repeat. ESPN used to do it with Supercross & cut off the end to show the football draft rerun. At least Speed treats supercross better then ESPN.

FWIW, I heard about an F1 race with 2-3 lead changes in a race. The next week I saw a MotoGP with 4 lead changes in *1* corner.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

throckmorten (116516) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705120)

There are certain races which Speed doesn't have US rights to, the Canadian GP being one of them. It was broadcast on Fox, although (thank god) with the standard Speed commentary team.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

dodgerfan (994874) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706026)

If I'm not mistaken, fox and speed are both owned by the same company.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

tjhayes (517162) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706140)

The race portion of the Canadian Grand Prix was on Fox that weekend. Fox does 4 races during the middle of the season. It was actually quite an interesting race, too bad you missed it.

Re:Off Topic but related, sorta (1)

NekSnappa (803141) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708744)

Canada and this weeks Euoprian Gran Prix are on Fox here in the states.
Which sucks because they do it on delay. And I like to use the F1 app on my iPad to watch live timing and scoring.

Remote driving (3, Interesting)

LambdaWolf (1561517) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704920)

That's interesting, but I'll really be interested when they invent a motor sport where the cars are driven remotely. I'm thinking of kind of a virtual reality rig where the controls simulate being inside the car. No one would go for this in the present types of auto racing even if it were allowed, since they would have a disadvantage even if the technology advanced considerably: the driver would lack certain kinds of information from sound and touch, not to mention signal lag.

But imagine if there were a separate motor sport where everyone drives that way. Not only would the technology itself be cool, but think of how much more riskily they could drive without any danger to human life. It's my understanding that drivers are always trying to push the envelope that way anyway (and the rules have to be revised to push back in the direction of safety), so presumably it would expand the sport with different machinery and perhaps new techniques that would be too dangerous otherwise. And the crash-happy spectators would certainly like it, and might feel less like ghouls for enjoying the spectacular destruction of machinery without the uncomfortable reality that there's a human being in there. (Or is that the appeal? I don't know.)

Also, we need to build military vehicles that work the same way. On the ground, that is—Predator drones already kick ass.

Re:Remote driving (2, Insightful)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705020)

The danger to human life is part of the thrill. Take that away and it's just a fancy video game.

Re:Remote driving (3, Interesting)

Risha (999721) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705460)

Interestingly, apparently some of the drivers have trained for unfamiliar tracks using... GT4, I think? And Speed had an amusing segment a few years ago where they filmed a driver (Nico Rosburg?) do a virtual run all the way around the track with his eyes closed, with an accompanying feed showing that it would be very nearly a perfect run on the real thing.

Re:Remote driving (2, Interesting)

flewp (458359) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705732)

The teams go WAY beyond the GT series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQS_Y8o0ZA [youtube.com] The simulators are usually proprietary custom made rigs.

Re:Remote driving (1)

Weedhopper (168515) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706110)

It's one of those things that only translates one way. Race/high performance drivers can use GT3/4 games to learn tracks but being awesome at GT4 isn't going to make you great on the track. Normal people have a danger threshold that kicks in when they're actually doing 120mph IRL in a car as opposed to pixels on a screen.

Re:Remote driving (4, Insightful)

flewp (458359) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706286)

Not only that, but driving a car, especially a Formula 1 car, is an extremely demanding activity. Racing in the comfort of your house, sitting on a couch, is nothing compared to sitting in the cockpit of a car, with temps that can exceed 100+ in your nomex racing suit, while dealing with up to 5 lateral g. Not to mention the fact that all the while you're not just driving the car like you do in the GT series, but you have to be in communication with your race engineers and look after your tires, your brakes, the engine, fuel consumption, basically everything.

Re:Remote driving (4, Interesting)

Weedhopper (168515) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706418)

Heh, you're preaching to the choir.

I have an extremely strong neck. I've been a competitive judo player and wrestler since I could walk and one of the first things an experience training partner or opponent notices about me is my neck strength.

I've driven, co-driven and pre-run some fairly competitive Group N rallies - Safari Rally, Pearl of Africa (rarely finished, never placed). I'd say my neck strength endurance is about average for a upper nationals rally driver.

The neck strength required for F-1 is an order of magnitude higher. Most people don't quite literally physically don't have what it takes to take an F-1 car around just half a lap without either hurting themselves or stalling out.

Re:Remote driving (1)

Danathar (267989) | more than 4 years ago | (#32709442)

Which is why you might see F1 drivers go to NASCAR but NEVER in the opposite direction (cause MOST cup drivers...not all) have a steady diet of Schlitz (Eww) and cheesburgers (Mmm)

Re:Remote driving (1)

flewp (458359) | more than 4 years ago | (#32713428)

I know you're being sarcastic and all, but...

Physical fitness isn't the biggest stumbling block for Nascar drivers to get into F1. Sure, some of them are sorta "pudgy", but if necessary, and desired, they have the resources to get fit enough for F1.

Good drivers, no matter what series they race in, can usually handle other types of cars reasonably well. The problem is they lack the experience to make up those last few tenths to actually be competitive. Jeff Gordon and Juan Pablo Montoya did a publicity thing back in 2003 (I think), where they swapped cars with each other. Gordon was a few seconds (or maybe even less, again, I forget) of Montoya's time in the F1 car. That itself is impressive, but learning the ins and outs of driving an F1 car takes time and there is no replacement for seat time. Also, he did it on a closed track in a private session. Learning to drive a car is one thing, learning to race in a car is a whole different story, and again, there is no replacement for seat time.

Gordon did mention that his neck, shoulders, and arms took a beating, but he has the resources and motivation to get in shape in no time I'm sure.

When it comes to experience, the most common career path these days for F1 drivers seems to be starting out in karting at a very young age, then working your way up series like Formula Renault, Formula Three, etc, then up to GP2 and finally F1. That means they might have spent 8 or so years in karts, and then maybe another 6 or so years in actual open wheel cars. All in road racing. Of course, there are exceptions, but generally they come from having lots of road racing backgrounds.

Re:Remote driving (1)

flewp (458359) | more than 4 years ago | (#32713286)

Cool stuff. I'd like to get into rally driving myself, but have neither the time nor the funds really. That, and I'm sure I have way more confidence in my driving ability than I actually possess :) . I have thought about getting into karting (for fun, not thinking of turning racing into a profession by any means), or autocrossing, or some other such racing in the next couple couple years.

For now though, I just get my fix with simracing. rFactor, GTR series, and now that we've talked about rallying, I may have to dig out my Richard Burns Rally disc to install it. Have you tried any sim racing at all? More specifically, rally sim racing? Richard Burns Rally seems to be the best option out there for rallying in terms of realism and being challenging, but I'm always up for trying something new. I think soon I'm gonna pick up iRacing as well, and then grab a proper wheel and pedal setup. I'm just using a 5 year old Logitech Momo wheel at the moment, and I'd like something with an actual clutch pedal and H pattern gear shifter (with the paddles as well, for use in cars that actually use them in real life)

Back to the subject of necks though, I'm hazy on the specifics, but I remember when someone asked Jensen Button back about 4-5 years ago about the physical fitness aspects of F1. He said something along the lines of his neck's circumference having grown something like 3-4 inches from training in order to build up the muscles in his neck and such. (again, I'm hazy on the specifics, but you get the idea) There was also a video on youtube floating around various F1 forums and such of Alonso cracking nuts using his neck. That kind of cracked me up.

Re:Remote driving (1)

Weedhopper (168515) | more than 4 years ago | (#32713724)

Dude, at heart, I'm a video gaming geek who happened to stumble into racing. After the Army and grad school, I ended up working for the better part of the last decade working for a bunch of NGOs, mostly in Africa.

Years ago, I was in Uganda and it turned out that the guy (importer/refurbisher/mechanic) from whom I was buying and renting cars and drivers was this big East African rally legend, who'd won the Pearl and placed in the Safari. We got along really well and we got drunk and chased women together. He'd long since retired from active racing but he had a team of drivers and to make a long story short, as an expat, I had money and he had a whole crew up great driver/mechanics with no funds. So one thing lead to another and I got a short course in performance driving, got to co-drive, then drive in local rallies at first, then pre-ran courses and after a year and half of dumping all my free time into it, got to co-drive and drive our beaters in the lower classes of the big events (by the time I did it, Safari wasn't on the WRC circuit anymore). Haven't really done it since.

Oh, and before this, the closest I'd gotten to rallies were the rally stages on GT3. :) With a Dual Shock, not the wheel.

More recently, I did some SCCA AutoCross and RallyCross but it doesn't really float my boat. I think it's great to do if you want to learn car control (I'd say the average SCCA Auto/RallyCross drivers have better car control than me) and is a great place to start but the speed just isn't there so it doesn't tickle me - once you've dodged goats at 90mph+ on Kenyan and Tanzanians courses, it feels a little constrained. Also, I learned performance driving RHD and even though I shift better LHD, my car control is better RHD. Or so that's what I tell myself when.

That said, RallyCross is one of the cheapest ways to get into competitive driving so I'd definitely encourage you to look into it.

I don't know how much you'd get out of a simulated clutch pedal. Even with stock cars, half the shifting is clutchless and the other half, you're kind of using the force to momentarily tag the friction point. Does an analog clutch pedal provide force feedback?

Video Gaming as Training (1)

Burning1 (204959) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708036)

I've done this myself. I live in northern California and race motorcycles at the amateur level as a member of the American Federation of Motorcycles (AFM.)

This is my novice season and prior to racing this year, my only track experience was up at Thunder Hill, in Willows CA. The AFM also races at Buttonwillow, and has three events at Sears Point (Infineon) raceway near Napa, California. Sears Point Raceway is featured in a number of games, including Tourist Trophy for the PS2.

My experience is that practicing with video games prior to riding a new track is valuable but is far from being a replacement for real world experience and youtube videos. The video game provided me a good broad overview of the track, and taught me the basic layout, which was incredibly helpful. But the video game fails in a number of important areas:

First... The maps aren't detailed enough to provide reference points. When racing, it's incredibly important to note features and marks on or around the track that can be used to identify actions, such as where to start braking, where to turn in, where to apex, and where I want to end up. These reference points can be things such as billboards, patches on the track, curbing... In one case, a porta-poty on the side of the track turned out to be a good reference point. The level of detail in video games just won't help there.

For what it's worth, the game is quite good. The curbing all seems to be in the right place. Camber is correct on all turns, and I notice a lot of subtle track features I see in real life.

Second... The overall performance of the motorcycles in many video games don't line up with reality. I noticed in Tourest Trophy that some of the bikes would hit speeds completely unreasonable for the amount of power they produced. Conversely, the handling feels fairly sluggish - real machines could often take tighter lines than their simulated counterparts, permitting me to carry more speed through the corners. The extra simulated power often meant that shift points and brake points that work in the video game would be all wrong in real life.

As an example, in real life I ride a mostly stock Suzuki GS500, which makes about 40 horsepower at the wheel. Through turn 3, I can generally hold the throttle wide open. Making the same turn in TT on a "Race Prepped CB400SS" without closing the throttle will put me in the simulated weeds.

Finally, the physics in the video game are all wrong. For instance, rolling off the gas mid turn at the lean angles we run usually causes the front tire to slide, and often leads to a crash. In the game, not only can you roll aggressively on and off the gas, but you can even apply the brakes at full lean. Obviously, there are games with better simulated physics, but I doubt you're going to find one that dials it all the way up to true realism - such a game would be nearly impossible to play with the limited feedback provided by a video game.

But again, the experience on the video game is valuable. Prior to playing Tourist Trophy, it was very hard for me to understand and follow the track when I watch youtube videos. Having an idea of where the video was recorded makes it easier to follow along and pay attention to details.

The huge benefit to learning the track on a video game is that I don't have to spend valuable track time learning the track layout during practice. The first time out on an unfamiliar track, it's very difficult to run anywhere near the limits of the tracks potential, due to the doubt about upcoming corners. When I don't have a good feeling for how long a turn is, or how a turn is cambered, I'm naturally going to run a very conservative pace.

As a side note... My best lap around Sears point was a 2:02, on my second race weekend with 5 days of experience on the track. For comparison sake, in Tourist Trophy, I can consistently pull 1:56s on the Honda CB400SS, which the game claims makes 31HP (25% less than my bike.) The game also claims that the bike hits 100 miles per hour between turn 6 and 7, a speed which I can't get close to in real life, despite the fact that turn 6 is my best turn on the track.

It is worth mentioning that the video game runs the Turn 1 bypass, which is worth a couple of seconds up the front straight. In real life, we run a slightly different layout... But again, not significantly different enough to account for 6 seconds a lap.

Re:Remote driving (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705140)

I guess the this would be a TV only sport, who would sit in the stands while ROV's speed along the course with drivers who have no fear?

Re:Remote driving (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705322)

Something like the DARPA Grand Challange?

Re:Remote driving (1)

Weedhopper (168515) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706090)

The inherent physical danger and risk is what makes it a sport, not just the competition. Once the drivers are out of the vehicles, they're no longer sportsmen, they're just controllers. In the military, there's a reason that guys who physically face the enemy are given more due than those who don't, the latter category which includes UCAV controllers.

Back to motor racing, that part of the human brain which tells the average Joe to slow down before he gets himself killed is the part that keeps even the most skilled non racing driver from being able to attain the same speeds and track times as they can in a simulator.

Re:Remote driving (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706292)

You mean like radio controlled cars, or something?

Re:Remote driving (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708320)

When you're doing that you can just as well remove the vehicle and make it entirely a videogame. At least that saves a ton of money and resources from not having to build the tracks and machines and whatnot.

Re:Remote driving (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32712634)

Thats why we have rc racing!! Lots of cash to waste, like a rich snob! And cry when ur car breaks on 1st turn! Can't get more realistic than that!

Muslims suck cocks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32704934)

and take a big dick up the ass.

Fuck Mohammad! Fuck Allah! Fuck Islam!!!

Re:Muslims suck cocks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32704960)

and take a big dick up the ass.

Fuck Mohammad! Fuck Allah! Fuck Islam!!!

On behalf of the Federal Imperial Rebulic of his Majesty of Pakistan, you are sentenced to death by stoning for your blasphemy. Please bend over, and kiss your infidel ass goodbye. 8===D ;O **Mohammed enjoying a nice kack sammich**

Re:Muslims suck cocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705006)

Whoops, posted in wrong thread, my bad.

Re:Muslims suck cocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705230)

No, trolling the radicals is proper in any thread.

And all that they achieve is (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32704980)

pushing the limited limits in a sports that has very sharp limits defined by a federation. a lot of fuss over huge bullshit. when someone broke a world record or even attempted a trial back in 1930s, it was a real deal, real thrill, real news. they could push the limits. now, it is a huge charade which is built on marketing and illusions.

Sauber still can't win a race (1)

mcalwell (669361) | more than 4 years ago | (#32704998)

Yet Sauber still can't win a race.

Re:Sauber still can't win a race (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705156)

Nowadays, Sauber can't even finish on the top 10. Screw that, they can barely finish a race!

Re:Sauber still can't win a race (1)

Sparckus (1158609) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705562)

Mainly because Kobayashi is a fucking nutcase and De La Rosa is shite.

Re:Sauber still can't win a race (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32708628)

Well, we both bit our tongues now. Kobayashi may be nuts, but he finished 7th now, passing Alonso and Buemi on the final laps. Passing Buemi is worth mentioning because Alonso spent half the race trying to do so, and repeatedly failing miserably. De La Rosa also managed to finish the race, albeit not as impressively.

Robot Drivers (1)

b4upoo (166390) | more than 4 years ago | (#32705864)

Considering the risk to the humans involved building these race cars with robotic drivers functions might make for an interesting and even higher speed race.

Sport? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32705968)

Is there a better name for enterprises where the amount of money you can throw at the engineers is more important than the driver?

I don't dislike F1 because it's boring to watch (like tennis or golf) it's more a sense of disdain at the so-called cars. Yes, they're fast but they need rebuilding so very often; they aren't cars they're toys. If you want an interesting motorsport then stock car racing is the one to watch

Re:Sport? (1)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706322)

"If you want an interesting motorsport then stock car racing is the one to watch". You have go to be joking. Ovals? BORING!

Speaking of engineering, there is more in common between the F1 Ferrari and a street Ferrari than the Nascar Camry and the street Camry.

That being said, Rally and MotoGP smoke them both.

and the best F1 track is (1)

mihalis (28146) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706020)

Spa Francorchamps, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBmcjp-vAaY [youtube.com]

Saw the race last year. Simply awesome.

Re:and the best F1 track is (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708680)

Nah, the Nordschleife, by far, is the best track in the history of racing.

Spa is a great modern track (even though the old version is better).

Re:and the best F1 track is (1)

mihalis (28146) | more than 4 years ago | (#32708860)

Yeah, ok maybe, but the Nordschleife is NOT an "F1 Track" - not any more. I was thinking of "tracks you can go to to see a race".

After all, tracks they used to run on includes all kinds of weird and wonderful places. If they still did Watkins Glen I'd probably go see that too.

Re:and the best F1 track is (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 4 years ago | (#32709064)

I thought they dropped SPA, but I guess it is back. That is a good thing, since it is one of the only circuits left with any history to it.

Re:and the best F1 track is (1)

mihalis (28146) | more than 4 years ago | (#32709098)

I think it was out in 2008, but we went last year, and if I had the money I'd go again this year. Awesome venue for F1.

Countless (4, Funny)

verloren (523497) | more than 4 years ago | (#32706880)

"back at their home bases, perhaps thousands of miles away, countless more engineers work (with the help of gobs of computing power) to give each team that extra edge."

Maybe they could use some of that computing power to count the engineers, if only for payroll purposes.

SpeedTv (1)

gearloos (816828) | more than 4 years ago | (#32707108)

Looks like someone just (finally?) stumbled onto Speed TV - where they talk about this and other aspects of the remote engineering every week... Tivo it, it's actually pretty cool stuff!

Lap times, all that matters in motorsport (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32707254)

Fact is, wherever the formula 1 circus goes, it completely destroys the lap times of any other sport racing on the same circuit. (i e read faster)

i myself as a fan for 10+ years almost always fall asleep during the most boring parts of races, most f1 races are only exiting at the start and the end, the middle is mostly just driving to the finish with no fights, but when it is exiting, boy is it ever.

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