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Porting Lemmings In 36 Hours

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the first-in-line dept.

Cellphones 154

An anonymous reader writes "Aaron Ardiri challenged himself to port his classic PalmOS version of Lemmings to the iPhone, Palm Pre, Mac, and Windows. The porting was done using his own dev environment, which creates native C versions of the game. He liveblogged the whole thing, and finished after only 36 hours with an iPhone version and a Palm Pre version awaiting submission, and free versions for Windows and Mac available on his site."

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154 comments

iPhone bandwagon (5, Funny)

JustinRLynn (831164) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713076)

Pandering to the Apple fanboys like everyone else seems to be? Oh come on Aaron, would you jump off a cliff just because everyone else ... oh.

Re:iPhone bandwagon (5, Funny)

DamienRBlack (1165691) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713092)

If only I hadn't spent all my mod points making my friends dig and climb.

I misread that as Portal Lemmings in 36 hours (1, Offtopic)

Magic5Ball (188725) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713196)

/disappointed.

Re:I misread that as Portal Lemmings in 36 hours (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713454)

If the source code to Lemmings is available somewhere I'm totally on this

Re:I misread that as Portal Lemmings in 36 hours (1)

FlyMysticalDJ (1660959) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713554)

Actually that could be a pretty good idea. You could have a few types of portal spawning lemmings. One would invariably have to shoot it somehow, but one could create one in the path, and it could lead to other types of puzzle dynamics.... And would hopefully replace the painfully annoying stair building ones that always make me lose lemmings.

Re:I misread that as Portal Lemmings in 36 hours (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714496)

My god...

This is possibly the best idea i have seen in a long time. The things it could do for gameplay would be amazing.
Significantly more complex levels could be created while still remaining fun.

Re:I misread that as Portal Lemmings in 36 hours (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714572)

So did I. I was imagining lemmings able to fire in / out portals either forward, up, or down. That way, you could keep a load of lemmings safe at the start by firing one up and one down, keeping them in a little vertical loop, while one lemming made it to the exit and fired the portal up, letting them all drop out by the exit. A cross between the portal flash game and the original Lemmings.

Re:iPhone bandwagon (4, Funny)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713168)

I think he's hosting the website on his iPhone.
I managed to grab the page after hitting F5 a few times
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8107/lemmings.png [imageshack.us]

Re:iPhone bandwagon (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713708)

I had a bad habit of bragging about my N900 -- WVGA screen, CortexA8 overclocked to 1.1GHz, and a touch-optimized Firefox derivative, it can do anything a laptop can do.

The above link has cured me.

(On second thought... does anyone's laptop actually handle that monster gracefully, either?)

Re:iPhone bandwagon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713898)

I can scroll just fine through that on my 17" screen

Re:iPhone bandwagon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714160)

No problems here, but I guess the PackardBell iPower GX doesn't count, right?

Re:iPhone bandwagon (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715072)

CortexA8 overclocked to 1.1GHz

Sweet Zombie Jesus, you're a madman! 8(

How hot does it run? I know that my N900 can get a bit toasty when I do things that peg the CPU for a long time (like watching videos), especially if the keyboard is closed, and I'm at stock clock speeds.

Nice accomplishment! (3, Insightful)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713100)

See, this is what you can do with low level languages... IF you know your shit.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (5, Funny)

SpazmodeusG (1334705) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713120)

I'm getting old. I remember C being regarded as a high level language designed with portability in mind.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (3, Informative)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713150)

Yeah, and it is, but it's still considered "low level" these days because it's awfully darn close to the metal. As compared to stuff like .NET or Java that runs on virtual machines or Common Language Runtimes.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

mini me (132455) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713300)

As compared to stuff like .NET or Java that runs on virtual machines or Common Language Runtimes.

iPhone apps are compiled using LLVM, which provides its own virtual machine, not unlike the JVM and CLR. Does that make C a high level language?

Re:Nice accomplishment! (2, Funny)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713400)

iPhone apps are compiled using LLVM, which provides its own virtual machine, not unlike the JVM and CLR. Does that make C a high level language?

That is just so wrong, it hurts to read it.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (4, Funny)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713532)

Wrong as in factually incorrect or Wrong as in 350 pound man wearing a Sailor Moon costume?

(You're welcome for that lovely image too)

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713824)

Sailor Moon is a sailor, not unlike Popeye the sailor man.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714418)

Which reminds me, are we modding funny as in hmm this milk tastds funny or haha funny?

Re:Nice accomplishment! (3, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714622)

Factually wrong. LLVM is a virtual machine in the sense of virtual architecture, not in the sense of virtual environment. Code for the iPhone is first compiled to LLVM intermediate representation (IR), which is machine code for a virtual architecture that has an infinite number of single-assignment registers and a structured (but simple) memory model. You can do various things with code in this form, but when you are targeting the iPhone, you generally run some optimisations, link a load of the modules together, run some more optimisations, and then compile the result to native code.

Describing LLVM as not unlike the JVM or CLR is like saying that Pascal is not unlike Smalltalk.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715230)

Shhhhhh! You might shatter their pre-concieved notions of C and make them feel bad for never learning it!

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713836)

As compared to stuff like .NET or Java that runs awfully darn close to the virtual machine.

I seriously think that the quote from David Wheeler (and the corollary from Kevlin Henney) applies, if you consider each virtual machine as a level of indirection.

"Close the bare metal" as in running in a virtual processor using the native instruction set provided by the thread abstraction, in a virtual memory address space (provided by the process) in a machine that has been virtualized (as in virtualization, not virtual machine). And then you need to add yet another layer for a virtual machine, because otherwise it is close to the bare metal?

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713326)

Yes, yes, you are getting old ;)
But C is like "more low level" than many popular modern languages.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

PrecambrianRabbit (1834412) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713862)

A professor I worked with once quipped: "C is portable assembly language."

I think that's something I like about it... I can actually predict what the machine is going to do when I write a line of code!

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714788)

I can actually predict what the machine is going to do when I write a line of code!

Ah, the good old popular misconception. For most practical purposes,

- you don't know what code the compiler will emit, especially if you're optimizing. Given the bajillion optimization flags most compilers have, and the fact that they change across versions (for example gcc 4.4 has the graphite framework, gcc 4.5 has link-time optimization), you're either very smart and brave to take a guess, or just ignorant. You can look at the output of course, but that's hardly "predicting", and we're lazy anyway.
- at any given point in time, you don't know how long it will take to execute the next instruction (hint: scheduling, possibly powersave)
- you don't know the state of RAM, with regards to swap
- you don't know the state of the CPU cache
- you don't know what microcode the CPU has, or what it's actually doing under the hood

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714978)

Perhaps you don't know PrecambrianRabbit as his real name... R2-D2. Take it back now?

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32715620)

I'll give you #1, but all other points apply to anything running on a preemptive multitasking OS.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (2, Interesting)

robthebloke (1308483) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715656)

- you don't know what code the compiler will emit, especially if you're optimizing. Given the bajillion optimization flags most compilers have, and the fact that they change across versions (for example gcc 4.4 has the graphite framework, gcc 4.5 has link-time optimization), you're either very smart and brave to take a guess, or just ignorant. You can look at the output of course, but that's hardly "predicting", and we're lazy anyway.

Yes, but the more output you inspect, the more you get to know your compiler, and thus predicting the output becomes easier. (Actually you don't need to predict the output for 99.99% of cases, you only need to worry about C/C++ constructs that will cause performance problems. Once you've identified those sorts of bottlenecks [via a profiler of course!], avoiding them in future is fairly easy). I'm not sure about you, but personally I don't go and blindly enable every single new optimization flag with every time I get a new version of a compiler! I think the fact they change is largely moot to be honest

- you don't know the state of RAM, with regards to swap
- you don't know the state of the CPU cache
- you don't know what microcode the CPU has, or what it's actually doing under the hood


A touch pedantic imho (and not entirely accurate). Those are specific to programming on a modern CPU/modern OS, and apply to any language. If you want to know all of those things, don't use a modern CPU or os....

- at any given point in time, you don't know how long it will take to execute the next instruction (hint: scheduling, possibly powersave)

What does scheduling have to do with an instruction timing? It sounds like you are working on the assumption that a thread can be suspended mid-op? Anyhow, if an instruction executes, it executes in 'n' cycles, with a latency of 'p' and a throughput of 't'. Those are known values for all CPU's. If the CPU has been throttled back via speedstep, then it still takes 'n' cycles, with a latency of 'p' and the throughput remains the same. The only thing that changes is the time for a cycle, but do you really want to be measuring your code performance in seconds? Fine for us console developers i guess, but not so great for your average PC.

Also worth pointing out, that there is always a counter-example. If you want to measure your code in terms of ops, get an ATOM ;)

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714106)

You not getting old, well yeah you are, but...

It's all other that getting younger, you and I only getting wiser.

Surprises me how many developers turns to question marks in there face, if you mention C.
And they state 'You don't need C anymore, everything is running on a VM anyhow (If they know VMs at all)'.

I can say for one, that without my knowledge of C, it would be harder to track down problems in the JVM.
Yes, if you code Java for a living, with a code base greater then a webapp, you will run into problems that
can only be solved by actually open up the hood and looking inside.

And when someone says "No that never happened to me", that only means that "Yes, someone fixed the problem we had".
It might been Sun, it might been throwing out the code, it might been what ever, just cause they don't know that
it is all based on lower level programming down to the metal.

It's like peeling an union, layer by layer, until you get down to the core (bare metal).
Groovy->JAVA->ByteCode->JVM->C++->C->Asm->Microcode->CPU.

If you learn this chain, you can debug things that others just cant.

So, guess who gets the job done?

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714780)

Since when does C++ needs to be converted to C? It's C++ -> Machine code. And JVM should be "HotSpot", JVM itself it's just a model, not a specific implementation :)

Re:Nice accomplishment! (2, Interesting)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715018)

Since when does C++ needs to be converted to C?

Since it started - it was just a preprocessor. It's now changed though to compile directly. You could in theory write a compiler that goes straight from Java to machine code if you were really keen. In fact, that has already been done [gnu.org] . It's not just the language syntax, the toolchain matters too.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714502)

C is not a high-level language. C is an optimizing macro-assembler with automatic register allocation.

OK, more seriously, though - a high-level language, in my definition, is one that allows you to think in the problem domain, rather than in the platform (especially hardware) domain. SML/NJ is a high-level language; C is not.

Of course, C is a bit special insofar as that it's often used in cases where the problem domain IS the platform domain, but that doesn't make it a high-level language still (if it did, you'd also have to consider assembly a high-level language when you're writing things like device drivers, OSes, BIOSes and so on).

I am older, I remember why C is called C (2, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714624)

You know you are old when B is more then just a brief bit of history in the front of a C book.

To be fair I only knew it from a porting project. I am not THAT old... I am young enough to remember when C was new and exciting... no we did NOT ride dinosaurs to work.

Re:I am older, I remember why C is called C (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32715486)

... no we did NOT ride dinosaurs to work.

Obviously! They pulled the carriage!

Re:I am older, I remember why C is called C (1)

robthebloke (1308483) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715718)

To be fair I only knew it from a porting project. I am not THAT old... I am young enough to remember when C was new and exciting... no we did NOT ride dinosaurs to work.

a Model-T Ford? :p

Re:Nice accomplishment! (2, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715326)

C was never a High Level Language. It was a more portable Lower Level Language. Sure it was above assembly (As Assembly isn't much of a program language, but but just a 1 to 1 translation to machine code) it was lower then COBOL, Fortran, Basic, Lisp, and many of the other popular languages at the time.

The difference between higher languages and lower languages. isn't as much portability, while higher languages tend to be more portable, however a high level languge such as VB is less portable then a Low Language such as C. But more to the fact how much of the execution of the code is based on the compiler vs. the programmers understanding of the computer.

Eg. in high level languges. you have string classes that do a bunch of cool things...
in C. you have a pointer to a block of characters and any effects you need to do you need to code it yourself.

Old Languages such as LISP where higher level and isolated the programmer from managing memory and handled it all itself.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713140)

You would be amazed what anyone can produce with any language *IF* they know their shit

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714814)

Even in Bitxtreme, where you can only address two bits?

Here are all possible programs:
00
01
10
11

His creator is very confident about its turing completeness:

OISC is Turing-complete. The fact that integers are limited to 1 bit doesn't affect that result. Thus, Bitxtreme must also be Turing-complete itself, I'm sure. The amount of memory supported by the virtual machine is unbounded, thus complying with the requisite for Turing-completeness; actual implementations will however impose an upper bound. Some people object that the limitation of PC to 1 bit imposes severe restrictions for Turing completeness but I'm sure that the examples above will be enough to show that that argument is bogus.

(Yes, this is a joke, not a rebuttal to parent's post. I understand his point and agree with it)

Re:Nice accomplishment! (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713192)

Exactly.....I used to spend a lot of time learning different languages, comparing them, trying to figure out what was best, using all the features.......then one day I realized it isn't the languages so much that make the difference, it's how you use it. I don't regret learning a ton of languages because you learn new techniques and ideas from each one, but as long as you can encapsulate stuff and be flexible, the language is ok. With macros and functions and libraries, I can write code just as flexibly and nearly as quickly in assembly as I can in a language like Perl or Ruby.

When the vast majority of your time writing code is taken up by debugging or refactoring, the language it's written in doesn't matter so much as the quality of the code that's written.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (2, Insightful)

osu-neko (2604) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713464)

I don't regret learning a ton of languages because you learn new techniques and ideas from each one...

Eventually you reach the point where that's not really true anymore because you're pretty much seen it all. At that point, it doesn't matter which languages you "know" or don't, and have used in the past or not, you can sit down and write code in anything, even stuff you've never seen before, as long as you have a minimal syntax reference or some sample code handy.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713890)

Eventually you reach the point where ... [you've] pretty much seen it all

That is so wrong on so many levels. The beginner thinks he knows everything. The well learned thinks he knows a lot. The expert knows that he knows nothing. This is true in programming as well. There are infinitely possible ways to design a language, and some are yet to come (though derived from current languages of course). There never EVER comes a point where one has seen it all.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713918)

Eventually you reach the point where ... [you've] pretty much seen it all

That is so wrong on so many levels. The beginner thinks he knows everything. The well learned thinks he knows a lot. The expert knows that he knows nothing.

And the AC thinks that the GP knows less.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714000)

And you're all nucking futs!

Re:Nice accomplishment! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714180)

sure, but you come to the point that you have a dozen or so of patterns to be used in all kind of applications (it's not that they're so creative anyway) so that you don't need the fancy features of new languages or you can include them in your own patterns to enhance them - once your patterns are simple and powerful enough to be run on any turing complete procedural language you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to run them anywhere, anytime, without having to relearn a yet new and powerful and useless platform/framework that will discontinued in a couple years anyway.

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713816)

When the vast majority of your time writing code is taken up by debugging or refactoring, the language it's written in doesn't matter so much as the quality of the code that's written.

I feel like a troll writing this, hence the AC, but this statement makes me think of the following quotations from Dijkstra:

"If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in," and

"If you want more effective programmers, you will discover that they should not waste their time debugging, they should not introduce the bugs to start with."

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714634)

You're not a troll, you're just quoting a troll, and Djikstra was the ultimate troll (which doesn't mean he was wrong).

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715186)

> then one day I realized it isn't the languages so much that make the difference, it's how you use it.

To me it's not the language that make the difference but the _libraries_ that make the difference.

The more suitable and available the libraries there are to do what I want to do, the less code I have to write, document and hopefully debug (some libraries are buggy unfortunately).

And also if they are standard or defacto standard libraries in means the poor sod taking over has less code to read. Assuming he/she is not a noob and does not need to check what "standard function/method" really does.

There are powerful programming languages that allow a top programmer to do lots of stuff quickly and concisely. These may be good for the elite programmers, BUT, I'm not an elite programmer...

So instead of a language that helps in the code I write, I prefer a language that helps because of all the code I don't have to write :).

Re:Nice accomplishment! (1)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715366)

OT:

Dude, in your world peace blog post, isn't the 3rd group exactly who the 1st group are talking about? Violence and war are related to game theory, it's always to someone's advantage to brutalize the others. You solve the problem of the 3rd group and the 1st group will go away, the 2nd group will as well.

So peace is really simple, you just have to stop the sociopaths and "might is right" people, then everyone else can relax. That doesn't sound so easy now.

Site down? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713114)

What... 3 comments and the site is already /.ed?

Copyright? (4, Interesting)

PyroMosh (287149) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713154)

Okay, so Lemmings isn't public domain. The owners may have turned a blind eye to DHTML Lemmings, and other small projects, but how do you expect to get approved for the Palm and Apple App Stores?

IIRC Psygnosis owns the rights to Lemmings. Also IIRC, Psygnosis is now owned by Sony. Unless Psygnosis was only the publisher for a third party I'm not aware of.

Good luck with that.

Re:Copyright? (2, Informative)

Tacvek (948259) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713262)

I have no idea Who retained the copyrights, by if it was the developer, then Rock Star North would be the current identity of the developer, so Take-Two Interactive would be the people to ask, not Sony.

Re:Copyright? (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713704)

It doesn't happen often that the develop remains copyright over their creations when signing up with a publisher.

If you look at the continuation of the Lemmings series you'll see DMA Design isn't involved anymore, but it's Psygnosis/Sony.

Re:Copyright? (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714792)

If that was the case, why would the last 3 or 4 versions be released only on Sony hardware? I think Sony owns the IP.

Re: Copyright? (4, Informative)

alex4point0 (179152) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713292)

PC/Amiga classic 'Cannon Fodder' was also recently ripped off (certainly from a look and feel perspective, and all reviews mention the likeness) as an iphone/itouch game Warpack [warpack.com] Grunts - with no credit to the original coders on their website [strangeflavour.com] . Considering the original devs have their own mobile phone development company [tower-studios.co.uk] I doubt they would have allowed this, and I hope they have sicced their lawyers onto them. I doubt Apple look too closely for prior art and are more interested in counting the filthy lucre their Jesus phone is piling up at their feet.

Re: Copyright? (3, Insightful)

danielsfca2 (696792) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713720)

I doubt Apple look too closely for prior art and are more interested in counting the filthy

Oh, so today we're mad at Apple for dastardly approving apps that they should have rejected on the grounds of software look-and-feel... because that totally holds up in court [lmgtfy.com] , not to mention it's totally Apple's job to ensure that every app has no resemblance to any other software ever published. Got it!

I'm glad you posted, because I think I missed that memo and was still cursing those Apple jerks for rejecting too many apps, because "All Apps Deserve To Be Approved" and "Apple Is Oppressing People With Their Walled Garden."

Re: Copyright? (1, Funny)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713800)

Of course you're right... Why would Apple care? After all, ripping off ideas and selling them out as their own is not a new idea, just ask Steve Jobs about pretty much any Apple product!

Re: Copyright? (1)

danielsfca2 (696792) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714254)

Show me a "new idea" in software and I'll show you some no-account who claims he "thought of it first" but didn't have the motivation or skills, either to implement it right, or to successfully bring it to market.

Sure there are occasional examples of some freeware widget being copied and made into part of the OS, but more often than that, they just buy the relevant IP from the guy who created it [wikipedia.org] . However if you think Apple is the only company to ever reimplement a "good idea" independently, without the blessing of some "inventor of the idea," then you're delusional and just have an axe to grind with Apple on some holy-war grounds.

Let me guess, you think Apple "stole" the desktop metaphor, mouse, etc. from Xerox PARC... but Microsoft was just using an obvious evolutionary idea when they suddenly developed Windows [folklore.org] after examining the Mac prototypes they were given.

Apple (and Jobs) are no saints. But they've been on both sides of those battles, and are no worse than any other tech firm when it comes to originality. There are just not that many whole-cloth brand new ideas in our industry! The best things are refinements of other things. Think about it--Apple didn't invent MP3 players, and Microsoft didn't invent CP/M. In both cases, the concept of something crappy was taken, improved upon, and released as something less crappy (iPod, and MS-DOS).

Re: Copyright? (2, Insightful)

blincoln (592401) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714396)

Oh, so today we're mad at Apple for dastardly approving apps that they should have rejected on the grounds of software look-and-feel... because that totally holds up in court, not to mention it's totally Apple's job to ensure that every app has no resemblance to any other software ever published. Got it!

This isn't a game that looks vaguely like the original Lemmings and has somewhat similar gameplay mechanics. It's an exact copy that uses the "Lemmings" name and logo.

Re: Copyright? (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714540)

He's talking about the Cannon Fodder clone which copies the "look and feel". Apple have yet to approve the Lemmings port, and I'd be surprised if they did since it's so well known and someone somewhere is likely to still have a vested interest in the rights and will pop up and challenge this.

Re: Copyright? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714704)

because that totally holds up in court [lmgtfy.com]

Wow, you suck at examples. Apple primarily lost because they licensed most of the LaF elements to Microsoft (from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] 179 of 189 claims). The very first hit from your link says that. Try actually using the results instead of just snarkily posting lmgtfy links.

Re:Copyright? (1)

SuperDre (982372) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713768)

that's exactly what I thought.. How in the hell is he allowed to publish this without having the actual rights to the game, and especially since Lemmings games are still being made... I can imagine he publishes the engine alone, but he's also publishing the actual artwork/sounds/music...

Re:Copyright? (4, Insightful)

DreadPirateShawn (1246208) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714036)

IIRC Psygnosis owns the rights to Lemmings. Also IIRC, Psygnosis is now owned by Sony. Unless Psygnosis was only the publisher for a third party I'm not aware of.

Good luck with that.

Not a bad résumé tactic though, however you look at it. If I had an interviewee who ported a game for kicks in 36 hours, I'd certainly file that in the "pros" column..

Re:Copyright? (1)

16K Ram Pack (690082) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715170)

And... this is why I like Android. Because this won't get allowed by either store, but will at least last a while on someone's website.

Am I saying that this is OK? Yes, I am. Sony should approach the guy and make him a reasonable offer and market it themselves and coin it in. I'll hand over money for an official Lemmings for Wii and Lemmings for Android, if they make it available.

Re:Copyright? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715800)

The game was developed by DMA Design (now Rockstar North), but the copyright went to Psygnosis as the publisher, and Psygnosis became SCE Liverpool. So ultimately Sony does hold the copyright, yes.

Android please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713244)

No port for Android? Its selling 160,000 phone per DAY!
C'mon...

Re:Android please? (2, Informative)

Adys (1274540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713258)

No port for Android? Its selling 160,000 phone per DAY! C'mon...

RTFA.

"Congrats to Aaron! Apparently he’s now thinking of extending his dev environment to include a port to Android. Let’s all weigh in on the comments below to help push him into challenging himself, yet again."

Re:Android please? (0, Flamebait)

zullnero (833754) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713726)

And, if you're too lazy to read the article, it's because his custom dev environment does not currently support Android. This might shock you, but Android kind of sucks. It's mainly only popular because it's not Microsoft and Google licenses it out to any crappy hardware manufacturer that will slap it on their device to save themselves a few bucks, whereas Palm does not currently license webOS nor does Apple license their iPhone OS. That also doesn't mean Android is all that good. Personally, I think hacking a Linux kernel all to hell and running a bunch of non-portable java smeg on top of a goofy jvm isn't all that impressive nor is it very forward thinking. But hey, it's up to Aaron whether he wants to bother with extending his environment to allow him to support several different revs of Android.

Aaron's a pretty good guy. He and I cut our teeth on PalmOS at roughly the same time, contributed a lot to the mailing list. He really has a passion for this stuff, so yeah, he'll probably do Android too just because he can.

Re:Android please? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713806)

This might shock you, but Android kind of sucks.

Nah, there's nothing shocking about trollish displays of FUD.

Re:Android please? (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 3 years ago | (#32715500)

What about Symbian then? 50% of the smartphone market, and their dev environment is Qt, allowing the same code to run on near 100% of the desktop/laptop/netbook market too (as well as their other OS, Maemo and presumably Meego in future).

(Of course, what one individual guy chooses to develop for is up to him. The sad thing is though, I can't help feeling that this story made the front page not because of the feat, but because of the obligitary "On The Iphone" mention...)

As for your Android comments:

licenses it out to any crappy hardware manufacturer

Whether or not that's true, these other companies still include those that sell a lot of phones. Nokia are number one, but there are a lot of other major companies that sell far more than Apple (and RIM come to that), but didn't have a decent OS. So it's a good thing that companies like Motorola can now ship devices with a decent OS.

Personally, I think hacking a Linux kernel all to hell and running a bunch of non-portable java smeg on top of a goofy jvm isn't all that impressive nor is it very forward thinking.

So how portable are other platforms? One could argue this for Symbian (now that it uses Qt), but not for the likes of Apple phones. What's "forward thinking" and "impressive" about other platforms, in a way that Android doesn't manage?

But can he actually publish his iPhone version? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32713288)

Doesn't using your own dev environment and having a code translator violate Apple's extremely fascist developer's license?

Re:But can he actually publish his iPhone version? (3, Insightful)

wampus (1932) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713320)

Only if you are Adobe or someone else on Steve-O's shit list. They relaxed the rules to be even less consistent and harder to predict.

Re:But can he actually publish his iPhone version? (1)

ekhben (628371) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713630)

Dev environment, no. Code translator, no, if the project was originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript. Since it was written in C, it doesn't even come into play.

But bonus points for noting that Apple is fascist! Take that, The Man! Woo!

CORAL CACHE (2, Informative)

Qubit (100461) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713360)

Here's the link for the coral cache [nyud.net] copy....now let's see if we can get the page loaded into the cache...

Re:CORAL CACHE (1)

Man Eating Duck (534479) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714804)

Here's the link for the coral cache copy....now let's see if we can get the page loaded into the cache...

I don't understand why the editors don't do this as a standard practice before publishing stories to the front page. I dunno, there might be some legal issues with publishing a cc url. If they at least preloaded the content it would be available, and the original host would stand a better chance of surviving a slashdotting.

Wrong language? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713778)

Didn't Apple have some anti-competitive rules that allowed only Objective-C to be used in programming for the iPhone? Even if C were allowed, we're talking about generated C code here.

Re:Wrong language? (1)

Christoffer777 (991273) | more than 3 years ago | (#32713982)

XCode will allow you to mix Objective-C with both C and C++. Not only that, but I seem to remember reading that at compilation, Objective-C is actually translated to a C code state before being compiled further. Anyone correct me if my memory serves me wrong.

Re:Wrong language? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714646)

I seem to remember reading that at compilation, Objective-C is actually translated to a C code state before being compiled further. Anyone correct me if my memory serves me wrong.

This is correct if the year is less than 1988, or you are using either StepStone's compiler (I recently met someone who was, which came as a surprise) or the Portable Object Compiler. If you are using gcc or clang (the two Objective-C compilers that are capable of targeting the iPhone or Mac), then it is not.

Re:Wrong language? (3, Informative)

Graff (532189) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714046)

Didn't Apple have some anti-competitive rules that allowed only Objective-C to be used in programming for the iPhone?

Objective-C is C. Objective-C is a strict superset of C so there's no difference between C code and Objective-C except for the extensions that Objective-C has added.

Even if Objective-C didn't include all of C it would still be OK. Apple allows iOS apps to be written in Objective-C, C, and C++. These languages were chosen because they are supported under Apple's API for iOS.

Re:Wrong language? (1)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714776)

not quite all C code is objective-C code but not all objective-C code is C code. So you can certainly write some C code feed it to the objC compiler and faithful in the technical sense call it an objective-C program; if not in spirit.

Re:Wrong language? (1)

Graff (532189) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714902)

Which is why I said that Objective-C is C with extensions, if you discount the extensions then what's left is C. I was trying to express it in layman's terms because it's very difficult to draw Venn diagrams in text! ;-)

But yes, the intersection of the sets of Objective-C and C includes all of C but not all of Objective-C. You can write a pure C function or variable and use it within Objective-C code without any problems at all.

Re:Wrong language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32715068)

SYNTAX ERROR.

Re:Wrong language? (1)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714074)

All valid C code is also valid Objective-C code as Objective-C is a superset of C with Smalltalk-like features on top.

Re:Wrong language? (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714766)

Didn't Apple have some anti-competitive rules that allowed only Objective-C to be used in programming for the iPhone?

No.

The Game that Made DMA Design (5, Interesting)

snap2grid (630315) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714068)

One of my claims to fame is that I was working for DMA Design when they created the original Lemmings (Dundee, Scotland), released on Valentine's day 1992. I did some conversions of the Amiga graphics to the PC (EGA!) and Atari Lynx. In the victory screen, there's a pic of the developers including myself! Needless to say, a lot of what is written on the net isn't quite correct. Great to see that it's still well thought of and in fact it's even part of a museum exhibit in Dundee (McManus Galleries) (You *really* know you're old when your photo is in a museum!) You can find the history of Lemmings (and DMA) here. http://www.dmadesign.org/ [dmadesign.org] and some of my musings from that time here http://www.stevehammond.org/ [stevehammond.org]

Re:The Game that Made DMA Design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714236)

My dad bought us Lemmings for our Amiga when it was released. We also enjoyed Blood Money.

No love for Lemmings 2? (1)

DrScotsman (857078) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714490)

The original Lemmings is awesome, but I seem to be the only one who prefers Lemmings 2...

Then again, I think I'm also the only one who liked Lemmings 3D.

Re:No love for Lemmings 2? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714554)

Lemmings 2 is far, far better if you ask me. But then I've still got my A1200 to play it on, so a port isn't something I desperately need.

Re:No love for Lemmings 2? (5, Funny)

wjsteele (255130) | more than 3 years ago | (#32714834)

The basic problem is that One person liked Lemmings first... then everybody else followed him!

Bill

nokia please :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32714996)

would be nice for someone to do a native port to the N900. running and amiga emulator to play lemmings makes it a bit oif a battery hog. :D

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