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Big Changes Planned For The Force Unleashed 2

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the franchise-strikes-back dept.

Star Wars Prequels 100

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed debuted in 2008 to less than stellar reviews, but sales of the game were strong. A sequel for the game is due out in October, and the developers spoke at length with the Guardian's Games blog about the improvements they've been working on. One of their priorities was adding depth to the combat system to make it less of a button-mash. "The team has completely redesigned all the familiar Force powers from the first title including Force Push and Force Grip, and has added a few newcomers including the potentially amusing Force Mind Trick that'll allow you to trick Storm Troopers into leaping from high ledges." Enemy AI is another area that's getting some love, and they're trying to make level design more open and less linear. The team's confidence in the changes they're making stems in part from much greater familiarity with their game-building tools. "Like its predecessor, Force Unleashed 2 will combine three third-party physics engines, Havok, Euphoria and Digital Molecular Matter, to provide cutting edge human animation, materials effects and authentic physical forces. ... 'Whenever you're building the first iteration [of a game series] and a brand new game engine at the same time, everything comes in hot and fast – we were literally figuring out how to get the most out of those three technologies all the way up to shipping. The DLC then helped us to learn more, and that knowledge has given us the biggest leap forward.'" A trailer for the game was released at E3.

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100 comments

How about a midichlorine meter? (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884330)

Surely the number of midichlorines in the blood stream fluctuates as you use the force?

Re:How about a midichlorine meter? (2, Funny)

gravos (912628) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884464)

The midichlorians in my swimming pool were neutralized by all your midicholorine

Re:How about a midichlorine meter? (3, Informative)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884846)

I thought they were constant in any person, and http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Midi-chlorian [wikia.com] seems to agree. They are more of a channel for the force than an energy source.

Re:How about a midichlorine meter? (1)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886542)

The team has completely redesigned all the familiar Force powers from the first title including Force Push and Force Grip

Why do I suddenly have a vision of thousands of stormtroopers covering their balls as they shout "sir, no sir, we didn't see you playing with your dolls sir"...

Re:How about a midichlorine meter? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887256)

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly squealed out in high pitched terror and were suddenly silenced."

Ouch.

That's button banger (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32884336)

'cause they can't pull a trigger and the ain't got anything else to bang.

Game Environment (2, Insightful)

Nialin (570647) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884338)

Let's just hope we can jump and land on that fucking mushroom top this time around.

Major fixes (3, Insightful)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884398)

It sounds like they are trying to fix my most hated part of the game, the combat system. I loved the look and feel of the game but the combat system made me give up near the end. Surprisingly even though I hated it so much, pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky was a novel and creative (if poorly implemented) idea.

Re:Major fixes (3, Interesting)

cafard (666342) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884654)

It sounds like they are trying to fix my most hated part of the game, the combat system.

No mention, alas, of Wii motion-plus support. If the lightsaber can be handled like the sword in Wii Sports Resort, that's an instant-buy for me.

O really? (1)

Hitto (913085) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885152)

Here's THE ONE THING the game needs : Slicing enemies with your lightsaber should cut off limbs insteead of "decreasing their energy bar".
Otherwise, it's not even worth pirating!

Re:O really? (1)

c0mpliant (1516433) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885468)

That is a feature of this game. I read it on an IGN article recently (there was also video footage of this in a demo). I'll find the article once I'm at home, IGN is blocked in work.

Re:O really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32885530)

You can do that in Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. The lightsaber fighting systems in those games are also fantastic.

Re:O really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32886996)

Which will instantly give your game an 18 rating.... not the best thing for sales it has to be said ;)

Re:O really? (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887102)

I'm not so sure. Kids will just get their parents to buy it, and that 18 certificate will make it even more tempting. Only those with parents who object will have a problem.

Re:Major fixes (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885132)

pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky was a novel and creative (if poorly implemented) idea.

Fully agreed, the sequence is nice, but it took me forever to actually pull it off, it took a while for me to realize you can just force-lightning the ties, and need to take multiple cycles to actually kill the thing, i was stuck on that for ages (threw the game aside for a year out of frustration), now i'm stuck in the section where you walk down the death-star laser channel and need to allign those rings... F-in sucks

I just hope they leave out those time-limited puzzles, the rest of the game was very nice

Re:Major fixes (1)

Klobbersaurus (796024) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887190)

it was easy once I realized the prompts telling you which way to move the sticks were bullshit and just tried to keep the bitch straight with the nose pointed down a little

Re:Major fixes (3, Insightful)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886042)

It sounds like they are trying to fix my most hated part of the game, the combat system. I loved the look and feel of the game but the combat system made me give up near the end. Surprisingly even though I hated it so much, pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky was a novel and creative (if poorly implemented) idea.

No, that's actually a perfect example of why the game was so fuxx0red. Star Wars isn't about Dragonball Z Super-Sayan characters. Force users may be powerful but they're not freakin' Greek gods. Yoda can say size matters not but living an X-Wing with his mind took some effort.

If a Force-user can pull a Star Destroyer out of the sky, he could just as well fly everywhere. And make laser beams shoot out of his eyes. And pretty much be Superman. All he needs is a cape and glasses when he needs a disguise.

The new Star Wars MMORPG looks like it's going to be Star Wars 40K complete with stand-in space marines. It's going to suck.

Re:Major fixes (1)

Reapman (740286) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887996)

Well actually if you go into some of the expanded universe stuff in the books.. from what i remember (and this is going way back) the way they explained how the Rebels were able to take a trap in RotJ and basically demolish the empire's forces was due to the death of the emperor.. he had the ability to basically boost the abilities of his troops from great distances. once he died they were uncoordinated (nice way of explaining a weaker plot element of the movie anyways) and the Rebels took advantage of this from them.

I think the Jedi chick you try and protect in the first KOTOR had a similar ability. Basically my understanding is Jedi's could go all "Super-Sayen" (ugh.. I hate DBZ) on you, but not all had the same powers.

Re:Major fixes (1)

mog007 (677810) | more than 3 years ago | (#32893274)

If a Force-user can pull a Star Destroyer out of the sky, he could just as well fly everywhere. And make laser beams shoot out of his eyes. And pretty much be Superman. All he needs is a cape and glasses when he needs a disguise.

First, I find your lack of faith disturbing. Second, the power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of The Force.

Re:Major fixes (2, Insightful)

shdragon (1797) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886590)

It sounds like they are trying to fix my most hated part of the game, the combat system. I loved the look and feel of the game but the combat system made me give up near the end. Surprisingly even though I hated it so much, pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky was a novel and creative (if poorly implemented) idea.

I read an interview with the devs in Game Informer where they admit that the on-screen instructions for pulling the Start Destroyer are wrong, hence the "it takes 20 minutes to beat the level". Poor QA but I still loved the game.

Re:Major fixes (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887230)

pulling a Star Destroyer out of the sky was a novel and creative (if poorly implemented) idea.

I think had we not seen the trailer where he makes it look like one fluid motion as some unstoppable force, the scene would have been alright. If they had left the tie fighters out and simply made it more difficult to line the Star Destroyer with Crashing, the scene would have been fine, because it wouldn't have needed any interruption.

But yes - the combat system needs an overhaul. And I mean OVERHAUL. It seemed to boil down to the 2 or 3 advanced combat moves you could pull off (despite how many you had unlocked) - and repeating them over and over until the room was cleared.

If you look at Jedi Outcast / Jedi Academy - where the only light saber combos are meant for fighting lightsaber opponents, and for everyone else they have at least 2 styles of swinging, which you can use to link regular swings into your own combos. This worked very well for those 2 games, and for what its worth, those ones I would recommend more than force unleashed, if not just for simple gameplay mechanics. Don't get me wrong, Jedi Academy wasn't an amazing game by any stretch, unless you include the multiplayer which is probably the best iteration of multiplayer saber combat to date. Not to mention it had a pretty strong modding community for a while, so there were some pretty interesting developments. I think had they studied these games more thoroughly before creating force unleashed, they would have created a better experience.

You know, learn from your ancestors, so to speak.

Re:Major fixes (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32888104)

It sounds like they are trying to fix my most hated part of the game, the combat system.

Um... There's no other parts. The only thing Force Unleashed has is an endless horde of enemies going Leeroy Jenkins on you.

Anyway, the old Jedi Academy was a far better game (partly because lightsaber instakilled anything, including the player, just like it should), only falling victim to this near the end; however, I'm still waiting an SW game where you control the character indirectly. That's the real problem with most SW games: they end up as save-load routine.

Maybe the player could rewind time a bit? That's justified in-universe: what you just saw was a Force-vision of future. That would solve the problem partially. Even better, do control like Batman: Arkham Asylum, where you simply decide to attack an enemy in some direction or counter an incoming attack, and let the Jedi training worry about the details - this should work even better with Endorphin.

Alternatively, make Knights of the Old Republic III.

3 Physics engines. (1)

Allnighte (1794642) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884462)

Do we really need 3 physics engines?

Haven't they seen America's Funniest Home Videos?
People already have trouble handling 1 physics engine!

Re:3 Physics engines. (4, Informative)

AwaxSlashdot (600672) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884586)

Check the dev diaries video from the 1st game : they mixed together 3 physics engine targeting different situations.

  • Havok is the general physic engine were everything takes place.
  • Digital Molecular Matter is a "material" physic engine. With it, glass shatters, metal bends and cloth floats in the air. It determines the behavior of objects from their mater and the result is fed back to Havok.
  • Euphoria is a physic engine specialized in body motion. Take it like "advanced ragdoll". Once again, the result is fed back to Havok for final composition.

Dev Diaries : links (4, Informative)

AwaxSlashdot (600672) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884612)

Re:Dev Diaries : links (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885126)

The Double Post is strong in this one...

He's just gaming the Mod system... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32886194)

Clearly, he is angry that he can only be modded *up* to 5. He knows his posts are worth 10.

Re:He's just gaming the Mod system... (1)

AwaxSlashdot (600672) | more than 3 years ago | (#32897440)

Actually, I first answered from what I recalled and submitted the 1st comment. THEN I went in YouTube and the official website to retrieve the video. I thought I would be able to edit my initial post but couldn't find any edit button.

Now this current post is clearly offtopic and a troll. I won't hide the fact that I'm rather proud to have both my comments mod at +5 informative. But can you just believe that I made those comments because I found that the dev diary was awesome and the fact that they mixed together 3 physic engines was a real achievement ?

Re:3 Physics engines. (2, Insightful)

idji (984038) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885322)

I still think you are going to run around a corner and see crates lying around, and know that some baddy is in this room, coz that's what the crates are for. No amount of technology is going to fix bad map design like that. There will also be impervious surfaces and materials, like the floor you are standing on.

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

robthebloke (1308483) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886750)

The bigger question is: why in the future, do all people insist on shipping goods using packing technology from the 1800's..... ?

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887268)

The bigger question is: why in the future, do all people insist on shipping goods using packing technology from the 1800's..... ?

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885346)

Yeah, it was pretty impressive the way glass shattered. Too bad the thing was originally developed for consoles, so broken shards had to fade away almost instantly.

Oh well. At least the consoles keeping gaming technology back means that PC's don't need to be updated as often anymore than they used to. Now if only we could get a modern version of SimLife, designed exclusively for high-end PC's...

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

Rational (1990) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885462)

You forgot the Utter Suck engine, which tied all aspects of the first game together.

Re:3 Physics engines. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32885804)

PhysX can handle all of that stuff, has CUDA support and has no licensing fees.

Re:3 Physics engines. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32886874)

Havok is more or less the same as PhysX (although I must confess I prefer the API and feature set of PhysX). Cuda is of little use on consoles, and PhysX is only free for PC software - commercial licenses still apply to consoles.....

Re:3 Physics engines. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32887650)

PhysX works with or without CUDA. Havok doesn't offer GPU acceleration of any kind.

PhysX has no licensing fees for ANY system that it's available on. That includes consoles.

Re:3 Physics engines. (5, Informative)

robthebloke (1308483) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885144)

Havok is fairly good at throwing boxes around. It can also create ragdolls - but they are of the lifeless kind. You can also optionally buy 'Havok Behaviour' which is essentially an animation blending engine (which most games companies either have, or wish to use another middleware engine - eg morpheme). So *if* you've bought licenses to both Havok and Havok behaviour, you can animate a character, put it into a ragdoll, and to some extent blend the animation results with the results from the physics engine - but it's not great by any stretch of the imagination.

Digital Molecular Matter adds another layer over the top of Havok to provide the ability to shatter objects in the scene based on realistic material properties (i.e. glass shatters, metal will bend and tear, rubber will bounce back into shape). This stuff just isn't possible with the basic Havok package - you can get HavokFX for some particle/fluid effects, but that simply does not compare to the realism offered by DMM (and would also require a great deal of developer effort to come close to the DMM results)

Euphoria is slightly different. I guess you could refer to it as a physics engine, but that's selling the tech short imho. Basically we developed it to bridge the gap between animation engines and physics engines. One big problem when working with physics, is that it's easy to end up in situations where the character gets stuck, or is simply put into a situation where the animation engine is unable to recover. For example, the character gets knocked over, their arm gets stuck under a bus, and a fat guy ends up pining their legs to the floor. Without euphoria, the traditional way of doing things would be to play a 'standup' animation, or author numerous animations to deal with the possibility of these problems occurring. The problem here is that simply playing an animation will remove the character from the physics simulation. Depending on how you do that, the character will either end up penetrating through the bus/fat guy, or the bus and the fat guy will end up being catapulted off into the distance. Not exactly realistic!

With euphoria we've essentially inserted nervous and muscular systems into the characters which, when combined with AI, gives the character an awareness of his environment, and the ability to get himself out of those nasty situations. So using the previous example, with euphoria enabled, he'd notice the bus, attempt to free his hand first, then either wait for the fat guy to move, or attempt to struggle free before blending back into animation. There are numerous uses for the tech in game, and the vast majority are extremely subtle. For example, when a stuntman falls/rolls down a hill/stairs/whatever, he'll normally be using his ams and legs to continue that motion in an overly exaggerated way. A realistic fall would simply be a nasty looking thud, and it actually looks aesthetically 'wrong' to the average gamer (because we've become accustomed to seeing stuntmen on TV/film). Euphoria offers a nice simple way of solving this problem by making ragdolls act a lot more like stuntmen, so that the artists on a game can 'direct' how the character falls (instead of relying on physics alone)..... This video [youtube.com] gives a nice overview of the tech.... (note: all animation data in the video is generated from euphoria only!)

So in answer to your original question, they could just use 1 engine, but by using 3 they can make their games much more interactive........

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885444)

This video gives a nice overview of the tech.... (note: all animation data in the video is generated from euphoria only!)

Most impressive. Depending on how well that plays with physics - that is, if physics says that Euphoriadoll should fall down, it will - this could potentially have applications in real-life robots, which could use it to plan their responses to unexpected events and predict the outcomes of potential actions.

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

osgeek (239988) | more than 3 years ago | (#32888212)

That is an awesome demo.

Can you share details of the business model? Is it a one time price or a price/percentage per unit sold?

Re:3 Physics engines. (1)

BertieBaggio (944287) | more than 3 years ago | (#32890116)

Great explanation, thanks for that! I remember encountering euphoria demos a while back and being seriously impressed with them. How taxing is it? I wish I could phrase that question in a more meaningful way, I'm just curious as to how well these things run, especially when you have 3 separate engines running at once!

Also, were you not developing a concept American Football game to showcase what the engine could do? What became of that?

Proper PC support? (3, Insightful)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884468)

Force Unleashed 2 has a good chance to unseat Jedi Academy as my favorite Star Wars game, but the original did have some faults. I want a more varied world and new game play. Less blowing past stormtroopers, more lightsaber battles. Do away with the quick time events and the minigame with awkward controls (pulling down the star destroyer). Let me customize my character more. Add some puzzles.

Most of all, make the PC a first-class platform. The port Aspyr did was pretty terrible -- bugs and performance issues all over the place. I shouldn't have to save every 5 minutes for fear of crashing.

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885138)

The best game is Rogue Squadron for the N64. I still ge the giggles every time I shoot a stormtrooper and they scream like a little bitch. *pew* "AAAIIIIHHHHHHHH!"

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

BobisOnlyBob (1438553) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885228)

I preferred Rogue Leader on the Gamecube. Just outright had better controls and a wide array of interesting missions. I mean, it opens with blowing up the Death Star and gets better from there.

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

Beyond_GoodandEvil (769135) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885282)

Most of all, make the PC a first-class platform.

Amen to this. You hear LucasArts? Don't give me that lame shit of it will require too much computing power on the PC so we'll release a Wii verison but not on PC.

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 3 years ago | (#32889908)

Your analogy is a bit flawed. It is an order of magnitude easier to squeeze out frames on a fixed LOW resolution platform like the Wii. Its quite something else to optimize it for resolutions up to 2560x1600.

Re:Proper PC support? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32885390)

I played game in two evenings. It did not crash ever on me. I bought it from Steam (Win7. Actually I got it as gift from steam).

The controllers were very bad. It clearly was not designed for keyboard/mouse. The most important thing was that you lock the targets (to use force to them) by using keyboard and not mouse.

That way you had only 8 way directions instead what gamepad gives, a full 360 degrees so you could easily lock to targets.

Game worked very well when I toke gamepad in use. Actually it was almost perfect (the map design just should have been better).

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

ninjacheeseburger (1330559) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885586)

I agree, I was tempted to buy the original of steam but it was 30GBs!! which would be 75% of my ISP monthly download limit, which I can't afford to waste on a shoddy port.

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

Smuttley (126014) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885694)

For me it's Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast.

Bought and played when it first came out 8 years back.

I recently bought it on steam just so I could play through it all again.

Lots of lightsabers and the force powers were done very well.

Force Griping an enemy, turning so they're hanging off a building and then letting go will never get old for me :)

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

slater.jay (1839748) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886126)

JK2 is one of my favorite games of all time. After playing through it once, I went back again and did it with cheats, giving myself the lightsaber and maxed Force skills, turning dismemberment up a bit so I could turn a stormtrooper into sashimi when Force Speed was on, and increasing the knockback a bit so I could kill people by Force Pushing them into walls. Heh. Good times. ...-1 Offtopic

Re:Proper PC support? (1)

lennier (44736) | more than 3 years ago | (#32894552)

Agreed. JK2 managed to reference both the original Dark Forces (the running around Imperial bases solving puzzles and shooting like Han Solo - even a 'Dark Trooper' like mass-production plot) and JK1 (big levels, Force powers and sabers and the Valley of the Jedi mysticism) and have beautiful textures and saber combat which was actually fun.

(We pass delicately over the frankly crap levels like the garbage masher and Code Room. Nar Shadaa Streets and Starport more than made up for those).

Playing the Dark Forces mod for JA reminded me of just how hard it is to design good levels and especially how hard it is to translate the feel of another game - yet JK2 pulled that off, with a story, and made it look easy.

Re:Proper PC support? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32893222)

The Aspyr port has never crashed on me. Have you tried any of the patches?

Fix the camera and the targeting system !!!! (1)

AwaxSlashdot (600672) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884552)

Those were the 2 most annoying issues with this game : being unable to see what's happening and being unable to select the trooper you want to eviscerate.

Re:Fix the camera and the targeting system !!!! (1)

kklein (900361) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884740)

I quit playing it about an hour in because of that and the quicktime events. Oh, and how duels or whatever would suddenly change your perspective to 100 feet away.

Blech. That was a terrible game. Terrible. I was so excited about it, but it was just awful.

Re:Fix the camera and the targeting system !!!! (1)

Avg Bear (1364993) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886464)

Let's hope that before they rewrote the combat system and the AI, that they put in a camera that ACTUALLY STAYS ON YOUR CHARACTER during a battle. Maybe this time the AI doesn't include making enemies disappear just as you strike or reappear the second you turn around. And yes, no !@#$% quicktime events.

The first one had the right idea (1)

TLLOTS (827806) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884660)

The first one was good, it just had a few glaring flaws that tarnished the experience; namely the most frustratingly boring boss battle ever.

A strange game (1)

ewrong (1053160) | more than 3 years ago | (#32884710)

Levels were boring and linear, the vast majority of the game provided no challenge what so ever, the boss battles were ludicrously specific in the way they had to be conducted, the story line was dull and dry and it was far too short. But I loved playing the thing (on the Wii) and actually went back and did it a second time.

How about removing the 30 frames per second cap? (1)

mykos (1627575) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885048)

I couldn't figure out why my computer was running The Force Unleashed like crap until I fired up Fraps and discovered the cap.

Re:How about removing the 30 frames per second cap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32886058)

Were your syncs on? Turn em off. Ziptwang!

Oy (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885174)

What a shame that such a lousy game is getting a sequel and Alpha Protocol isn't.

This is not an industry that rewards trying new things. It does reward poor franchise tie-ins apparently.

Re:Oy (1)

Midnight's Shadow (1517137) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885272)

This is not an industry that rewards trying new things. It does reward poor franchise tie-ins apparently.

Not quite, it rewards games that make money. A few tens of millions of dollars is a huge risk and the Star Wars name draws in the dollars, making the risk much less. Imagine how much money a Star Wars game could make if it was actually a good game?

Re:Oy (1)

c0mpliant (1516433) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885544)

Alpha Protocol was terrible!! More Knights of the Old Republic please!

Re:Oy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32888694)

+1 agree

I might be in the minority, but I enjoyed KOTOR 2 more than the first game. The storyline was more intricate, the characters were more interesting, there were more abilities, no level cap and it had a "darkness" about it that made the whole thing feel utterly bleak. I loved it.

force + battles + puzzles = win (1)

Superken7 (893292) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885188)

Why not use force powers not just for fighting but also for solving little puzzles ?
Think of it as a mix of zelda puzzles and/or portal puzzles, and combine that with some epic battles and I think that would result in a very fun game!

Re:force + battles + puzzles = win (2, Informative)

kannibal_klown (531544) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885552)

Why not use force powers not just for fighting but also for solving little puzzles ?
Think of it as a mix of zelda puzzles and/or portal puzzles, and combine that with some epic battles and I think that would result in a very fun game!

I recall some force puzzles in some of the older Jedi Knight games. However I might just be thinking of the recent one where Kyle Katarn has retrain and prove he's still a master of the force; I don't know for sure how often they occured outside of that level.

There were some puzzles in the older games: some tile puzzles, some "force activate that and then speed-run-across" things, etc. Nothing stellar or mind-provoking but better than some of the other FPS or hack-n-slash games out there.

Then again, rose colored glasses.

Re:force + battles + puzzles = win (1)

The Yar (1855038) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887212)

TFU 1 had force puzzles. Not a lot, and usually not complicated. Generally they involved disconnecting machinery behind a force field, or unhooking things, or opening door locks. I remember I spent a little time figuring out the one where you had to lift tie fighter wings off the floor of the factory and slide them into the vertical conveyone in order to reach power-ups.

Re:force + battles + puzzles = win (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 3 years ago | (#32889468)

Because players of DDO have told Turbine THEY HATE THAT! Seriously, we all hate stupid puzzles in quests in that game.

Kyle Katarn could help (4, Insightful)

Cerberus7 (66071) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885712)

The Jedi Knight games did everything right, from force powers to saber combat to letting you SHOOT the danged baddies if you wanted to. Translate that to the new graphics/physics engine, and done. Instant awesome game. (k, not really, but you know what I mean)

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (1)

Xphile101361 (1017774) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885892)

Completely agree. While I did like some of the awesome animations for the game, the fact that when I wanted to finish off the last 5% of an AT-ST's health I had to go play a button pressing mini game was annoying. The Dark Forces games were awesome and should have been the basis for this game.

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (2, Insightful)

ultranova (717540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32888662)

Oh yes. And Jedi Academy had state select, and only fell to the "endless wave of enemies" problem near the end. And the first lightsaber hit was usually also the last.

However, these games really need to lose the "Force requires mana" system. Use cooldown on powers if you must, but it's annoying that if you activate Force Damage Reduction - er, Protection - your "Force energy" doesn't recharge, so you can't really use any other powers.

Also, don't have health bar. Have a "defence" bar; whenever something would had hit you, you deflect it with the lightsaber/Force Push, and when the bar's empty, only then does a hit get through, at which point you die instantly. A minor change, but it would fit the theme much better, and would also justify the modern "stop getting hit to heal" mechanic.

There are other possible improvements, but these would be something to start with.

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (1)

lennier (44736) | more than 3 years ago | (#32894486)

it's annoying that if you activate Force Damage Reduction - er, Protection - your "Force energy" doesn't recharge, so you can't really use any other powers.

Annoying yes, but tactically interesting, especially for multiplayer - essentially Protection/Absorb/Speed/Sense put you into a 'defensive' stance by locking up your Force recharge, so you know when you see the aura that the other player won't be using offensive spells, er, Force powers. So the game becomes like fencing - feint, guard, block, circle, watch for an opening.

At least I assume, having not played JA multiplayer. Though I still prefer Outcast to Academy for the single-player experience. Academy's SP campaign felt too 'videogamey', and the double-sabers just felt cheaply overpowered and not true to the movies (the only good movies, the original trilogy).

Also, don't have health bar. Have a "defence" bar; whenever something would had hit you, you deflect it with the lightsaber/Force Push, and when the bar's empty, only then does a hit get through, at which point you die instantly. A minor change, but it would fit the theme much better, and would also justify the modern "stop getting hit to heal" mechanic.

There are other possible improvements, but these would be something to start with.

Now that one is much more interesting, and I'd like to see something like that implemented. Get rid of the whole Wolfenstein-inherited 'run around taking ridiculous amounts of damage then heal' mechanic.

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (1)

thebagel (650109) | more than 3 years ago | (#32894692)

I disagree. Force-requires-mana makes sense to me - think of it less as mana and more as Concentration. You have to concentrate hard on reducing incoming damage so of course you're going to have trouble shooting lightning.

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32897636)

I disagree. Force-requires-mana makes sense to me - think of it less as mana and more as Concentration. You have to concentrate hard on reducing incoming damage so of course you're going to have trouble shooting lightning.

And that's just fine. However, why can't I stop concentrating on reducing incoming damage when I want? Why do I have to wait 10+ seconds for my "concentration" to recover?

All too often in JA I had to simply stand still and wait for Force Sense/Protection/Absorbtion/Whatever to wear off, and then for the Force to recover. That is the real problem with "mana system": forced waiting.

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32901192)

Uhh, if you press the use force button again while a force power like absorb or protection is in effect, it deactivates it right away. The force regen time is also pretty fast and can even be changed via the console with g_forceregentime.

Having no force regen time would be idiotic because it would allow people in multiplayer to spam force jump constantly. It's already annoying enough to hunt down jump noobs.

Re:Kyle Katarn could help (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32890066)

Yep.... "force unleashed" was a big step back from the "jedi knight" series.
It was a big letdown.... i stopped playing when they started making me "super mario" jump across lava pits.... which is in like the 2nd level.

Lava pits + moving platforms = devs couldnt be bothered to code up a decent level

Force Unleashed was recently $5 on steam (2, Informative)

ph0rk (118461) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885768)

And took up some twenty four gigabytes of disc space. Once downloaded, it was probably the worst commercial game I'd played all year, and was summarily removed.

Why on earth are they making a sequel to such a bad first start?

Re:Force Unleashed was recently $5 on steam (1)

_Shad0w_ (127912) | more than 3 years ago | (#32885870)

Maybe they figure it can only get better?

I think you were probably better off just buying the comic of the storyline for the first game...

Re:Force Unleashed was recently $5 on steam (2, Informative)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886342)

Because most people didn't buy it for PC, but for a console, where the experience was significantly better than the PC experience.

Re:Force Unleashed was recently $5 on steam (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886642)

Yeah but it still managed to completely lock up my friends PS3 twice.

Light saber duels (1)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 3 years ago | (#32886024)

Wii Motion Plus supports this time please. I know no one thinks I have any balls for using a Wii as my main gaming platform, but it is still better than my Linux netbook. :-p

There's a great disturbance in your use of Force (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32886564)

the potentially amusing Force Mind Trick that'll allow you to trick Storm Troopers into leaping from high ledges

Is that kind of, I dunno, like... Questionably ethical? Yeah I know, you have to neutralize the instruments of evil in a war, but still. The poor bastard doesn't even have a chance to defend himself. Then again, then first three episodes sort of cast the ethics of the Jedi in a rather distasteful light. In my mind anyway.

Re:There's a great disturbance in your use of Forc (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32887688)

I hate the force escalation in these games, like it's not cool to be able to strangle some guy, you have to be able to toss spaceships around like rag dolls. It's totally against the "feel" of the movies, if Jedi were so powerful they'd never send a handful of stormtroopers against them (hell, the Jedi would just turn the stormtroopers against each other with mind control). Reign in the powers and let me use them in clever and innovative ways (instead of just having some guy blindly walk off a building, let me start fights between two enemies).

Online Film izle (1)

Filimizle (1855036) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887164)

I agree, I was tempted to buy the original of steam but it was 30GBs!! which would be 75% of my ISP monthly

First give players a choice (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887440)

last game, you forced the player to continually roleplay as dark side from start of the game until the end, giving only a brief choice at the end.

i didnt buy the game. i dont like games in which i cant choose what i do.

so, before talking about physics engines, havok, this that and button mashing, set your gameplay straight by giving players a choice. choice and variance are what separated knights of the old republic series from almost all similar games and made them standards.

Re:First give players a choice (1)

thebagel (650109) | more than 3 years ago | (#32894714)

Choice didn't make sense in Force Unleashed. You were Darth Vader's frickin apprentice. You really think that the choice to go light-side would have made sense?

Re:First give players a choice (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#32898456)

and why it wouldnt make sense ? darth vader himself, betrayed his master, which happened to be the fucking emperor of entire galaxy, and killed him, and passed to light on a whim.

dumb dumb dumb (1)

rpillala (583965) | more than 3 years ago | (#32887796)

This trailer is monumentally stupid. Towards the end, our hero says "Vader can't stop me now...no one can." In that case, why go through the charade of waiting for Vader to leave you with a roomful of hapless stormtroopers at the beginning? If you're sick of Vader's betrayals, why not just kill him immediately? Oh that's right.

So either the first game has a lot of complicated history between the two that makes it OK to kill literal tons of stormtroopers and not the man responsible, or it's hamstrung by its license. I already own STFU and just never finished it because I dislike playing evil. Maybe I will pick it back up.

Re:dumb dumb dumb (1)

wickedskaman (1105337) | more than 3 years ago | (#32893478)

Not to mention Vader leaving him to be killed by a handful of stormtroopers even though he was left with both lightsabers in his possession. Lame.

Psi-ops? (1)

Scatterplot (1031778) | more than 3 years ago | (#32888394)

Does anybody else remember that game Psi-Ops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_Ops) back on the original Xbox? It was one of my favorite games, of all time, for not much more than the engine they used to implement the telekinesis. What's all this "stand still while using the force" bullcrap from TFU? In Psi-Ops, if I wanted to levitate a box while standing on it and surf it around the level, I could. In that game, I could run, use TK, and fire my gun *all at the same time*. This was back on the original Xbox, too! If I remember right, they used the depth of pull of the left trigger to determine the height of the lifted object, instead of hijacking both thumbsticks. Man, that was a fun game. If there was any one game I wanted a sequel for and never got, it would be Psi Ops.

How about using a lightsaber? (1)

kikito (971480) | more than 3 years ago | (#32889020)

You know, instead of a phosphorescent herring, which seems to be the thing after they modelled the character's main weapon after, according to its damage output.

More mini games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32889230)

How about one where you force-choke chickens?

What about length? (1)

Odin_Tiger (585113) | more than 3 years ago | (#32891524)

I just bought this during Steam's huge sale a week or two ago. It's a 30GB game, and I beat it in 11 hours, a large portion of which was replaying levels / bosses due to the combination of extremely cheap deaths and really shitty placement of autosave / checkpoints. 22 minutes per GB? Are you fucking kidding me?
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