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Remix This Game — a Free Software Experiment

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the good-use-for-ex-girlfriend-pictures dept.

GNU is Not Unix 152

An anonymous reader writes "REMIX THIS GAME is an experimental game design contest where participants can re-mix and re-cycle my free-software self-published PC game, XONG. XONG is available under permissive licenses allowing remixes and derivative works of the code, graphics, sound effects, and music—even for commercial use. The source code license is the GNU GPL Version 3, and the media is covered by the Creative Commons BY-SA license. No special software or programming experience are needed—XONG has been packaged up so that you can just download the game and edit the graphics/code/music/sounds in place, and re-start the game to see your changes. Plus, it is available for Windows, Mac OS X, and GNU/Linux, so you can remix it on whichever OS you use, using whatever programs you like."

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152 comments

XOMG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945460)

XOMG nethack lives!

My Thoughts (-1, Flamebait)

WED Fan (911325) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946098)

God, why waste the effort. After looking at it, why bother. Sorry, dude, but I'd rather work on yet another rehash of the classic grid based Trek. Hell, I have one of my old listings from '76 for Trek on a teletype terminal. I may have the paper tape as well. I have better looking and coded programs from my old Sinclair ZX-81.

Re:My Thoughts (0, Flamebait)

WED Fan (911325) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946122)

No special software or programming experience are needed

No special software or programming experience were used for this.

There, fixed it for you?

Now, bigger question: Who was the jackass that decided this was a good post? I've seen what Taco has done to this place, but not even he can be this incompetent.

Re:My Thoughts (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947424)

...apart from the need to learn LISP.

Yeah, that'll be a useful skill for game programmers later on in life.

Cool (5, Interesting)

krzysz00 (1842280) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945462)

This is great and will most likely show off the extensibility of Lisp to people who don't normally care. Also, why did the author use cells instead of standard CLOS, unlike I'm doing in my common lisp roguelke

Re:Cool (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945560)

I dare anybody to watch the game in action [youtube.com]" without visiting the website and come to any conclusion about how the game works, or what it is you're controlling, what you have to achieve, how you score or how you die

Re:Cool (1)

AmberBlackCat (829689) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945694)

Well my game-fanatic nephew and I just did that. He noticed one of the blocks with a line following it and concluded that must be the object controlled by whoever is playing the game. We didn't get much further than that. I'll reserve judgement until the DSi version comes out.

Re:Cool (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945738)

I did watch the you tube video and I still have no idea how the game is played. I couldn't figure out which one of the 20 moving things on the screen represented the player until he died and then he said "I died" out loud, and then I rewinded it twice.
I'm thinking PacMan + DigDug + BoulderDash + Worms + Too Much Caffeine for the Developer + Graphics that make my old C64 look good.
Really looks like another lame attempt to get hits for a personal web site.

Re:Cool (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946378)

Reminds me of an old 8-bit Atari game called Firebug Olga. It had weird gameplay because it was a mix of at least Digdug and Pacman that also let you shoot things after gathering enough doodads on the screen. I think it was one of those weird "demo" or magazine games that made its way around enthusiast groups or something, since I couldn't find much in the way of reference to it.

Now if somebody could remake that one 8-bit tank game where you could build walls and had exploding shells that could also ricochet. (And no, it wasn't Atari's Combat Tank game.) I think that one was from Antic Magazine. Despite its quirkiness and simplicity, it was quite fun in multiplayer. So it'll also need an online mode.

Re:Cool (3, Interesting)

HadouKen24 (989446) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946336)

From what I've seen so far:

You control the box. You are trying (among other things?) to kill the things moving around. This seems to be largely done by forcing them into striking bombs (the empty squares). You can use a "puck"--the round circle that bounces back toward the box--to tunnel through the walls, and you can drop "chevrons" that force the enemies to move in the indicated direction. This is especially useful for forcing them to hit a bomb or get trapped in a tunnel.

It's not /that/ arcane. You just have to watch it for a couple minutes.

Re:Cool (1)

jack2000 (1178961) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946424)

I noticed those things too, but the developer COULD have worked a little bit more on the graphics and sound. Hell any off the shelf free sounds could have been better...

Still this could have some potential if some one makes a more streamlined/faster paced version.

Re:Cool (5, Funny)

Miseph (979059) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946902)

Yeah, maybe he should make the code available to the whole world and invite people to change the graphics and sounds.

Come to think of it, I think I remember seeing a story not too long ago about something like that...

Re:Cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946434)

Well, I could tell instantly that it is NOT my kind of game, so this might be biased.
It took me until 2:30 or so to realize that he wasn't controlling the snake in the middle of the screen, since it wasn't doing anything interesting.

He's actually the yellow sperm snake. You can eat the green tiles.
You turn into a skull and crossbones when you die, and some of the thingies shoot diagonally.

Here's what else I deduced immediately:
It doesn't rely on fast reflexes
It has text graphics
Text graphics are horribly bad at portraying what the hell is going on (Dwarf Fortress)
There are a lot of enemies

Since it's not my kind of game and it's not written in a language I really like, I probably won't ever look at it again.

I think most of the problem is the text-based graphics. They are not helping me understand anything.

Re:Cool (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945718)

have you seen it running?
man, that game is operating in like 7-dimensions - yet without 'height', concurrently in multiple parallel-universes - with grandfather paradox feedback - before, after and even "word doesn't yet exist" the original causation event. my friend played a full game (no trainer) the other week, he finished 106 years ago with a top score of "japan"

Re:Cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945724)

It would be great if the game wasn't complete shit.

Re:Cool (1)

sykopomp (1133507) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946288)

It's not cells -- it's an object system called CLON. It's more along the lines of KR. It's prototype-based and emphasises the message-passing bit more. It's a much simpler system than CLOS (which can be nice in some cases, such as when you want to bring in strangers and have them extend/remix your game).

If this is supposed to show off Lisp (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946390)

I don't want to see something you consider needing work in Lisp. This game has to be the most confusing thing I've seen in a long time. Extremely poor design. Now I realize that doesn't mean the language behind it is bad, but it is not a good way to showcase things. "Oh look how extensible Lisp is! You can edit a poorly done extremely complex game!"

I mean I could counter with "Look how extensible C++ is! Go purchase Civ 4 and marvel at the amount of flexibility it has, without ever touching the source code (most of the game is in XML and Python)."

When you want to showcase something, you want a good looking, easy to use demo. You want a polished final product.

Re:If this is supposed to show off Lisp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32948020)

If this game were final and polished to perfection, what would be the point of its flexibility?

pronounced (-1, Troll)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945468)

XONG is pronounced "zong" and programmed entirely in Common Lisp.

I pronounce it "wrong".

niche in a niche in a niche (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945480)

So to actually change something besides the media (wich is something you can do on a lot of games already), you need to know LISP and get to know your custom .pak format. I don't think this will take off.

"Permissive" license (4, Insightful)

Thinboy00 (1190815) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945500)

Typically, the term "permissive" implies a BSD-like license, i.e. no copyleft. I'm just saying.

Re:"Permissive" license (3, Funny)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945606)

Completely agree. I was turned off when I saw it was CC BY-SA and GPLv3'd. Hate both licenses. Hate.

Re:"Permissive" license (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945630)

That's only because you hate freedom [gnu.org].

Re:"Permissive" license (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945892)

Yes because freedom is having one person define what freedom means.

Re:"Permissive" license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946142)

No, I(nor rms) didn't say that at all.

OMFG, You Just Said... (0, Offtopic)

WED Fan (911325) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946178)

Yes because freedom is having one person define what freedom means.

OMFG, in the last 18 years or so, something has been itching at the back of my head after hearing RMS speak. I've been following the whole GPL, BSD, etc. BS for awhile. Something kept nagging at me and I couldn't find the words for it.

You're post, screaming for a true implementation of a sarcasm tag, just wrapped up the whole thing for me. You have provided my new sig line.

Re:OMFG, You Just Said... (1)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947088)

Yes because freedom is having one person define what freedom means.

OMFG, in the last 18 years or so, something has been itching at the back of my head after hearing RMS speak. I've been following the whole GPL, BSD, etc. BS for awhile. Something kept nagging at me and I couldn't find the words for it.

You're post, screaming for a true implementation of a sarcasm tag, just wrapped up the whole thing for me. You have provided my new sig line.

To be honest, it's a weak argument against the FSF's version of freedom.

There are other licenses outside of the GPL that the FSF considers fully free, in that they force users of the code to extend the same freedom they were given unto others.

Re:OMFG, You Just Said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947978)

There are other licenses outside of the GPL that the FSF considers fully free, in that they force users of the code to extend the same freedom they were given unto others.

Again freedom only what the FSF defines as freedom.

Re:"Permissive" license (0, Troll)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947692)

No, because I hate being told that if I make a modification to the code, I have to not only contribute it back, but maintain the updates and the original code for x amount of years. Forget that. I'll maintain it (and provide access myself) for as long as I wish.

Re:"Permissive" license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947734)

Why don't you actually go ahead and try reading the license text. And stop spreading random FUD, please.

Re:"Permissive" license (4, Informative)

Neil_Brown (1568845) | more than 3 years ago | (#32948094)

maintain the updates and the original code for x amount of years

I'm not aware that either licence requires you to do either of these things - under GNU GPL v3, the licence for the code, you have a number of options if you wish to distribute the covered code in binary form (article 6, GNU GPL 3.0) on a commercial basis, including:

  • distribute the binary on a physical medium, accompanied by the source code on a fixed medium; and
  • distribute the binary online, and offering equivalent access to the source code (i.e. just hosting both the source and the binary)

In neither case are you required to host / distribute the source code at any point after you cease to distribute the binary.

Similarly, in terms of "maintenance", your code can be as buggy as you wish - there is no obligation maintain, release new versions, merge patch submissions etc., unless you wish to do so.

(IAAL, doing quite a lot of open source work, but this is not legal advice :))

Re:"Permissive" license (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945682)

I was turned off when I saw it was CC BY-SA and GPLv3'd.

Wait - doesn't that imply that you were, conversely, turned *on* when you thought it was BSD? Methinks you need some higher quality fapping material...

Re:"Permissive" license (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945730)

All aboard the OpenBSD Mantrain! [encycloped...matica.com]

Re:"Permissive" license (2, Insightful)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947706)

I should have known better than to click a link to anything on Encyclopedia Dramatica, doubly so since it's a link from a /. AC, triply so considering it was labeled a "man train". Epic fail on my part. You sir/ma'am, otoh, have won, but only this round.

Re:"Permissive" license (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946628)

If you don't mind me asking, why do you "hate" them?

The only reason I see to hate them is if you want to ship a closed source derivative of some software released under such licenses. Otherwise, how do they affect you in any way, so much that you hate them?

Re:"Permissive" license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946790)

Probably because they remove the freedom to change/alter licenses.

Re:"Permissive" license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947136)

Why don't you come in again and try this all over? The question is "How can you hate these licenses, if you don't have to use them or anything under them?"

Re:"Permissive" license (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947684)

How can you hate closed software licenses, if you don't have to use them or anything under them?

Yes, both camps are stupid to the extreme.

Re:"Permissive" license (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947666)

Besides being infectious (mainly aimed at the GPLv3 as I'm most well versed on the GPL (at least up until GPL2))? Limiting? Nah, I'll take a BSD or almost any other copyfree [copyfree.org] license over the GPL any day.

So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945614)

Who cares? GPLv3 is superior to "BSD-style" licenses anyway.

Re:"Permissive" license (1)

tpstigers (1075021) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946724)

Of course, copyleft is just another form of DRM.

Re:"Permissive" license (1)

smaddox (928261) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947326)

No, it's more of ARM (analog rights management). There is no digital software keeping the source code open.

Also, whereas DRM pro-actively prevents you from using the software in an undesired way, copyleft retroactively does so (through legislation). You can go ahead and use the software in a commercial closed-source application, but if you get caught you must pay the consequences.

Predicting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945504)

20 different techno club house versions.

How is this different from the mod scene? (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945546)

Not that I'm against freer/more open gaming, but how is this project different from the usual mod scene for your typical run-of-the-mill game? People have been able to "remix" games for decades (with less fanfare, perhaps) and sometimes the code gets GPLed too.

So is this novel because it's an indie experiment (which isn't that unusual either) or because of something that I'm not really grasping?

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (5, Funny)

RobVB (1566105) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945570)

Is it on slashdot because it is news, or is it news because it's on slashdot?

This discussion is now about philosophy.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945668)

Hitler also had a philosophy.

Check and mate.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945700)

Hitler also had a philosophy.

Check and mate.


Well, this match is over. God wins!

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945854)

Give that man a mod point!!!

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (1)

royallthefourth (1564389) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946250)

Hitler also had a philosophy.

Check and mate.

Once again, introducing Heidegger makes the discussion incomprehensible.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (1)

sco08y (615665) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945678)

how is this project different from the usual mod scene for your typical run-of-the-mill game?

The mod-scene doesn't generally do attention whoring on /.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (4, Insightful)

hitmark (640295) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945782)

usually on the mod scene you do not have access to the whole game engine. Heck, when tho id software open source their game engines, they still retain copyright on the models and graphics.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (3, Funny)

Goaway (82658) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946126)

It is different because the mod scene generally works on games that are good and that people care about.

Re:How is this different from the mod scene? (3, Informative)

dto1138 (1858604) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946166)

Hi, before I started the contest, I did some searching and could not find any "remix this game" type contests in the indie world, because it's a very proprietary culture. I think this is news because 1. it's a game that some indie people are aware of, given that it got some reviews and downloads, and 2. it could help raise awareness of more open licensing for games.

Because this game sucks, and is open source (1, Flamebait)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946368)

Slashdot doesn't comment on the mod scene much because it is mostly limited to commercial software since it is mostly limited to good games. You take a game that has a solid engine, with lots of good looking assets, and then add to that the ability to customize it easily through XML or included editors or what not and you find that people often flock to modifying it. They start from a strong base, making it much easier to create a useful, fun, mod. You don't have to redo everything, the game is already good. You just, well, modify.

However, as I said, that tends to exist only in the commercial arena since that is where you find this stuff. Few, if any, OSS games are very good. That doesn't interest Slashdot so much. They don't want to hear about a Windows game that is really great and has lots of community created content as it doesn't push what they want.

So this is of interest to Slashdot because it is about OSS. Doesn't matter that the game blows, it is OSS so Slashdot likes it. So there you go, front page news for a game that is confusing as hell all because you can "remix" it and it happens to have open source.

Re:Because this game sucks, and is open source (5, Informative)

krzysz00 (1842280) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946946)

Slashdot doesn't comment on the mod scene much because it is mostly limited to commercial software since it is mostly limited to good games. You take a game that has a solid engine, with lots of good looking assets, and then add to that the ability to customize it easily through XML or included editors or what not and you find that people often flock to modifying it. They start from a strong base, making it much easier to create a useful, fun, mod. You don't have to redo everything, the game is already good. You just, well, modify.

Such a game (which is open source) already exists. It's called Wesnoth [wesnoth.org]

P.S. Was this flame/troll?

Re:Because this game sucks, and is open source (1)

AffidavitDonda (1736752) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947758)

there is an unlimited amount of oss game content available. reaching from game engines 2d, 3d, ogre, Panda3d, Irrlicht) hysics engines and what not to complete games in high quality. All of this in languages better suited for game programming (like python) I really don't see what's that game about. It doesn't add anything new

You can't re-mix a single object (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945624)

A mixture is some combination of two or more objects. You can't re-mix a single game.

Re:You can't re-mix a single object (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947246)

you are retarded.
a game isn't a single object.

music is commonly remixed without actually adding anything.

Suggestions for XONG remixers (4, Funny)

Robotron23 (832528) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945656)

This game at first glance appears to be a take on an early roguetype; however in truth it's less adventureish, gear-based or as rich with chance taking. It's quirky though:

You control a vulnerable white square attempting to infiltrate a semi-randomly generated abstract color field environment infested with robots. You are armed with a paint-absorbent hockey puck that can pick up color and transfer it to other objects. If you lose your puck, you have to find another; these are scattered through the environment and look like the letter P. There are no hit points; any hit kills you, and completely ends your game. You cannot shoot enemies; instead you drop direction-changing arrows called "chevrons" to guide them to their doom in one of XONG's many black holes. But your puck will also follow the arrows, so be careful where you fire; otherwise you'll lose it down a black hole.

I can imagine any number of possibilities for this game so here are my suggestions...

You could attach a consistently looping 8-bit track, and perhaps add a purple 'M' character that changes said track between a selection of five inbetween your fight for survival. XONG: SONG Edition.

You could append a boss enemy with a brown capital 'K' - this will spawn periodically in the game to increase the challenge difficulty. However you can destroy him by luring him to the red 'M' which insta-deaths the K. XONG: KONG Edition.

You could attach an RPG element with a short text preamble which says you're a stoner who's attempting to work his way up the hockey league and must find a bong in under 200 move intervals to survive - upon 10,000 moves (progressive difficulty) and then you win hockey stardom...it could be called XONG: BONG Hockey Master Edition.

Re:Suggestions for XONG remixers (2, Interesting)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945830)

This game at first glance appears to be a take on an early roguetype; however in truth it's less adventureish, gear-based or as rich with chance taking. It's quirky though:

You control a vulnerable white square attempting to infiltrate a semi-randomly generated abstract color field environment infested with robots. You are armed with a paint-absorbent hockey puck that can pick up color and transfer it to other objects. If you lose your puck, you have to find another; these are scattered through the environment and look like the letter P. There are no hit points; any hit kills you, and completely ends your game. You cannot shoot enemies; instead you drop direction-changing arrows called "chevrons" to guide them to their doom in one of XONG's many black holes. But your puck will also follow the arrows, so be careful where you fire; otherwise you'll lose it down a black hole.

Oh, so THAT's what's going on... I went to see their "Gameplay video with commentary, at youtube" and I had no clue as to what the hell I was looking at. This is some very, very nerdy stuff, and that's coming from a fairly nerdy guy. ASCII characters as game sprites... party like it's 1989!

Re:Suggestions for XONG remixers (2, Informative)

Robotron23 (832528) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945914)

Yeah I used to play Nethack a lot some time ago; learning a roguelike game gives one enough insight to spot any other game of the sort easily. Infact any young nerd who creates a game like XONG is very, very likely to have experience with a rogue-type game dating to the 1980s.

Nethack is common among nerds - and if you tire of the ASCII stuff you can commit a mild act of sacrilige and play a version more conventional in appearance one of which is included with the standard Nethack package that one can download at www.nethack.org . There have even been versions that are three dimensional in view perspective, but those haven't gotten too popular.

Re:Suggestions for XONG remixers (1)

PrecambrianRabbit (1834412) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946024)

I've recently picked up UMoria again, and you know a game is old when after mentioning it people refer you to slightly-less ancient games like Angband :-).

Also I got a Rogue port for my iPhone, but I can't say that touch is the way to go for that style of game.

One thing (1)

ceraphis (1611217) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945672)

While i like the idea, I worry that this won't amount to much more than graphics being changed to penises or copyrighted stuff like Mario or halo or something.

How hard is it to rewrite the code and wouldn't this just be the equivalent of passing on the brunt of the game development to someone else?

Lisp... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945702)

while (plusp limit)))))))))

lines like these make me cringe. I won't touch this again with a 10ft pole, sorry :|. List sucks.

Can anyone tell me (2)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945728)

If this is advertising or genuine news?

Re:Can anyone tell me (3, Interesting)

ksandom (718283) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945778)

I haven't read enough to answer that. However looking at the bigger picture, I do think this sort of stunt would be good for getting more people working on open source software. Inspire them with something that is immediately fun and rewarding, and trigger the curiousities to try something deeper later on. I wouldn't be at all surprised to talk to someone 5-10 years from now and hear that something like this was their first project.

Re:Can anyone tell me (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946708)

Yup, and that's the problem with Slashdot. It and its readers are increasingly evaluating stories and comments as this were primarily an open-source advocacy site, as opposed to a nerd/news site with a special focus on the open source movement. So what really has to be describe as an advertisement for an obscure (google "Xong review" if you think that's not fair) self-published game gets stuck on the front page by including a few buzzwords (GPL, Creative Commons), and the editing decision gets endorsed--even though there are far more famous open source games out there, plus very active mod projects on proprietary work. Someone who read the story and actually thought this was a good place to start would likely have been misled.

It's not that harmful in this case. But people who think they are actually getting meaningful knowledge about reality when they read stories and highly modded comments on copyright law, Microsoft products, or public IP policy.

Absolutely nothing against David O'Toole, who seems to have written the game and submitted the story. Haven't played the game, doesn't look like my style, but maybe it's great for it's intended audience. The complaint is about the explicit decision that anything that hits favored buzzwords "news" based on its imagined effect ("help open source") rather than information content.

Re:Can anyone tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947984)

This game seems to be about Lisp first, GPL second, buzz third, and actual game ... well lemme think of about thirty other things first.

Re:Can anyone tell me (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945838)

If this is advertising or genuine news?

Whoa. That's like, a zen koan.

Maybe what you must realize is: There is no news.

Re:Can anyone tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945916)

It'd be news if it was ported to Zune & Winows Phone 7. Not get a real game / life.

Re:Can anyone tell me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946066)

It's neither. It's more like an anti-advert.
I was excited when I read

XONG is available under permissive licenses allowing remixes and derivative works of the code, graphics, sound effects, and music—even for commercial use.

but then I clicked the link and saw a screenshot using something like 8x8 pixel 16 color sprites. Way to go promoting the quality of free culture and software! It's humiliating.

Re:Can anyone tell me (1)

ari_j (90255) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946758)

You can tell that it's advertising because every single statement in the article summary describes every open-source game and the other comments indicate that this particular game is nonsensical and unnecessarily complex. There is nothing at all new or special here and anything interesting about it was already true of open-source games in existence for decades, such as Netrek (1988), Nethack (1987 and based on older games whose open-source status I do not know), Battle for Wesnoth (2003), Lincity (1995), and plenty of others.

Re:Can anyone tell me (1)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 3 years ago | (#32947196)

It's advertising. I'm making a simple game right now that's taken me all of 5 evenings, using entirely open source software. I haven't played XONG, but the technology doesn't look all that advanced. My own code is composed of a few simple libraries:

Ogre (Graphics)
Lua (Scripting)
ToLua (Script Bindings)
OpenAL (Audio)

All of this is open source, and aside from OpenAL is a BSD or similar license. I could probably release my code right now, after 5 days of work, and let users have their own sandbox to play in (it's only really good for 1 type of game... but still). I would, but I don't feel like dealing with my employer about whether I am/am not allowed to do so, and it's easy to reproduce anyway.

This seems like a good idea, but I honestly can't see it being anything but advertising.

Kudo's for the new approach (0)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#32945808)

to slashvertising.

Your license is in no way unique, since its clearly a boilerplate GPLv3 license, its certainly not the only GPL'd game. Anyone can do the same thing with any GPL game as they can with yours.

Edit in place isn't particularly impressive, especially in this case.

Really you aren't doing one single thing (other than the new slashvertising appoarch) that is new, unique or even a new and/or unique combination of something.

There is nothing noteworthy about what you're doing.

Re:Kudo's for the new approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32945864)

This is in parallel with a Lisp Games Expo, much like 7-day roguelike. It is fun. He just chose his game because you didn't need to be a programmer to change the assets.

Re:Kudo's for the new approach (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946074)

No claim to uniqueness of license was made, in fact the page links to the stock gplv3 and cc-by-sa 3.0 usa.

In slashdot where everything is free this might not seem like news, but in the Indie Game Development world source is often closed and assets are very rarely licensed to allow derivative works, let alone commercial use. As an INDIE contest I actually consider this relatively unique.

"Edit in place" works here because we ship the SBCL compiler in the binary----so remixers changes to the .lisp files are recompiled to machine code. We do not have to ship any special dev tools.

To sum up, indie game remixes may not be a new idea, but people don't seem to be licensing their indie games remixably in the first place.

Perhaps this story can raise awareness about that??

The first to.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946124)

hack the iphone and Jobs *turns head and spits* into this game winz

how is this any better than the Quake3 source code (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946182)

I don't understand why this guy should get some attention for what is basically an invitation to do and old fashiond "total conversion" of a game... you know... games that are more advanced that glorified ASCII games or 16 color X11 graphics?

Re:how is this any better than the Quake3 source c (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946448)

Why is this insightful. This anonymous coward has no insight at all. Quake3 is actually very hard and time consuming to modify. Try adding a new character, a new skin, a new model, a new object, a new weapon.

All of these things require a lot of assets and often actual coding. It is very difficult to do much with quake3 and the fact that it is 3D knocks out anyone who is doesn't under linear algebra.

A 2D roguelike is very simple.

Some comments from XONG's author (5, Informative)

dto1138 (1858604) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946256)

Hello folks, I have addressed the originality (or alleged lack thereof) of the remix contest in another message here. I chose XONG because it's a small and relatively simple game, so it would be easier to get started remixing. There is a review of Xong here: http://playthisthing.com/xong [playthisthing.com] And, folks, the game includes a thorough HELP screen on the F1 key, and an interactive in-game tutorial. So if the videos seem inscrutable, try reading the instructions. I make no claim to the engine or game being the greatest ever, but I hope the contest will be fun and get people possibly involved with creative commons licensed art, or free software, or lisp game dev. Who knows?

Re:Some comments from XONG's author (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946608)

Thanks for your contribution, friend.

I think it's a hip idea, even if some of the cooler-than-thou gang around here might scoff. And I salute you for the way it was licensed.

You're to be commended and encouraged for your idea and your work.

Re:Some comments from XONG's author (4, Insightful)

ColaMan (37550) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946624)

So if the videos seem inscrutable, try reading the instructions. I make no claim to the engine or game being the greatest ever, but I hope the contest will be fun and get people possibly involved with creative commons licensed art, or free software, or lisp game dev

Oh, don't mind us, we just love to shit all over someone's hard work, you know? Call it a hobby, if you will. Never mind the fact that 90% of us here couldn't construct a game to save our miserable lives, let alone make one you can remix.

Re:Some comments from XONG's author (3, Interesting)

SquarePixel (1851068) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946854)

Hello folks, I have addressed the originality (or alleged lack thereof) of the remix contest in another message here.

I chose XONG because it's a small and relatively simple game, so it would be easier to get started remixing. There is a review of Xong here: http://playthisthing.com/xong [playthisthing.com]

And, folks, the game includes a thorough HELP screen on the F1 key, and an interactive in-game tutorial. So if the videos seem inscrutable, try reading the instructions.

I make no claim to the engine or game being the greatest ever, but I hope the contest will be fun and get people possibly involved with creative commons licensed art, or free software, or lisp game dev. Who knows?

While I do really appreciate your effort and ideas, theres a few things you should look at first.

1) The game looks like from the 80's. It doesn't make a good impression and is hard to get people involved. Hell, some of the games I coded at 12-13 year old had a lot better graphics and ideas (no offense to you, just good old critical comment if you want it!)

2) Are there any tools to help change the game? There is and have been already immersive modding community out there. You have to provide similar tools, just being "open source" doesn't really do much.

As a person working in the games industry, and who has coded since 8 years old and working in freeware/shareware, indie, and commercial industry, I really think you need more to accomplish your goals.

Re:Some comments from XONG's author (2)

dto1138 (1858604) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946912)

"The game looks like from the 80's". So um, despite claiming to work as an indie, you haven't heard of people doing retro graphics and sound on purpose as an artistic choice? "Are there any tools to help change the game"? The page says you can use any image editor to edit the images, any text editor to edit the code, and so on. The only thing not included is a proper level editor, which I have in the newer version of the engine. I also worked in the games industry, and left for a reason.

Re:Some comments from XONG's author (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947146)

"The game looks like from the 80's". I'm not sure in which capacity you claim to have worked in "indie", but you don't seem aware of deliberately making retro styled graphics as an artistic choice.

In Web 2.0 Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946382)

Game Remixes You!

Hmmm. That is the game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32946704)

The games I played on my TI994A in the 1980's had better graphics than that. Guess what, many of them had the source available.

Author explains XONG gameplay (4, Informative)

dto1138 (1858604) | more than 3 years ago | (#32946856)

Here is a youtube video i made a while back, showing gameplay with explanatory text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9mi08KQDWw [youtube.com] I'm used to people being put off by XONG initially because of the weird graphics, so I will try to explain it in a nutshell. You have to kill the enemies but have no weapons. The only way to kill an enemy is to direct it into a "black hole", each of which can only be used once. Basically, you lay down arrows (up, down, left , or right) on the game board, which the enemies follow, and hopefully you direct them into the holes. You have to dig tunnels to many of the holes, or to escape a bad situation, or whatever. There are 4 or 5 different types of enemies, though you have to progress in the game to see more than 2 or 3. One hit kills you and totally ends your game (start back at level 1). XONG requires quick reactions to avoid death, but requires pre-planning to kill the enemies, who behave in generally predictable ways. The predictability tells you where to place the arrows and which holes to un-dig.

Best! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947078)

Greatest rootkit delivery system EVER!

thanks for the code release ... looks like fun. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32947294)

right on.

i just started to learn lisp and this looks like a fun thing to dig through.

appreciate the effort.

ignore the gamer haters. gamers are about as stupid as photoshop users. they will bitch the same amount whether your budget was $10 or $100 million.

r.

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