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Droid X Gets Rooted

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the root-root-root-for-the-home-team dept.

Cellphones 97

An anonymous reader writes "The Droid X forums have posted a procedure to root the new Motorola Droid X, putting to rest Andoid fans' fears that they would never gain access to the device's secrets due to a reported eFuse that would brick the phone if certain boot files were tampered with. Rooting the phone is the first step in gaining complete control over the device."

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Was there ever FUD? (3, Insightful)

tgpo (976851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007756)

Did anyone actually believe the device would never be rooted? If it is released, it will be hacked. It may not be immediate, but if there is enough interest then in time the blocks will be circumvented.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (5, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007808)

Yes but rooting the phone requires you to cut the yellow wire with the green stripes, not the green wire with the yellow stripes. If you get it wrong, you not only brick your phone, but every other droid x in a 3 block radius.

So I can understand people's fear in doing so.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (4, Insightful)

beakerMeep (716990) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007870)

Rooting and replacing the bootloader/ROM are completely different though. I thinks most people who know about the situation expected it would be rooted. The huge barrier that Motorola put up with the eFuse is still there however. And it's still going to be nearly impossible to circumvent. Key word being nearly.

As far as I can tell even now the Motorola Milestone (the european version of the original Droid) still hasn't gotten past the signed ROM requirement of it's boot loader even though it too has been rooted.

See the engadget article [engadget.com] for details

Re:Was there ever FUD? (4, Informative)

assantisz (881107) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008324)

That's exactly the problem. Getting root is simple. Getting custom "ROM"s and bootloaders on the DROID X and Milestone is an entirely different thing. The latter two are digitally signed. The Milestone has been out for quite a bit now, has been rooted, but so far custom OSs are still not running on that thing. The most promising approach at this moment is using kexec [and-developers.com] . Somebody will be able to get this all to work eventually but it is not very elegant.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (1)

macieklen (1104105) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008444)

Theoretically speaking you are right, BUT keep in mind, that it took 10 years to emulate CPS3 [wikipedia.org] . And for a while it seemed that DroidX would be similarly well protected.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (4, Informative)

kaiser423 (828989) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008692)

Everyone, literally everyone knew that the device was going to be rooted. That was the simple part.

Not everyone is sure that the bootloader can be cracked. It's fully encrypted, Trusted Computing style. Some UK hackers have had a go on a similar phone and haven't made it happen. We're hoping that since the Droid X has a much broader base that the extra talent workign on it will finally break it.

Basically, as usual, the summary was horribly wrong. Everyone thought Rooting would be simple and done within a week or two (and it was). Everyone was and still is worried about the bootloader, and how you might brick your phone or just not be able to find a weak spot. Messing with the bootloader is what could trigger the eFuse if it was enabled, but Motorola has specifically said that they have not turned it on. The only thing keeping everyone out of the bootloader is the encryption right now.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 4 years ago | (#33010476)

Motorola have been using RSA protection on their firmware (preventing the loading of unsigned software) for years (long before Android existed) and people found ways around it before. I for one have a Motorola Z6 linux phone with a hacked bootloader to disable the RSA protection and a self-compiled kernel.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33009008)

So how exactly is Android open, again?

Re:Was there ever FUD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33012730)

Open source. An open market. Etc.

Your trolling is feeble.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 4 years ago | (#33013320)

The Droid X is "Open" as in "Can of worms".

I will not buy one till the bootloader issie is cracked.

Re:Was there ever FUD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33012232)

"If it is released, it will be hacked."
People often repeat this as if this is an iron law. Maybe it isn't. The PS3 is still not hacked for example.
And people also often repeat this implying that therefore restrictions aren't useful. Even if the PS3 were to be hacked today, the restrictions have served their purpose.

Drooooid (1, Insightful)

TheMidnight (1055796) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007766)

It was only a matter of time. Besides, isn't rooting the phone separate from the bootloader, which modifying triggers the eFuse?

Hah (4, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007768)

"The Droid X forums have posted a procedure to root the new Motorola Droid X, putting to rest Andoid fans' fears that they would never gain access to the device's secrets due to a reported eFuse that would brick the phone if certain boot files were tampered with. Rooting the phone is the first step in gaining complete control over the device."

Man.. if I had read that summary two years ago when Android was starting to take off my heart would have sank.

Re:Hah (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33007894)

When did Android take off? All I see is ''dumb'' phones and iPhones.

Re:Hah (0, Redundant)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008706)

You mean you didn't realize that the carriers would force this one the phones regardless of who wrote the OS?

Really? You didn't expect this? Cell phones have never been 'open', the fleeting few moments that you could get an android device that didn't have to be broken to modify the OS are few and drawing near a to a close.

If you didn't expect this than you really do need to take your fanboy blinders off.

Re:Hah (3, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008794)

You mean you didn't realize that the carriers would force this one the phones regardless of who wrote the OS?

Knowing it'll happen doesn't erase disappointment with it.

If you didn't expect this than you really do need to take your fanboy blinders off.

Grow up.

Rooted, but.... (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007780)

They may have rooted the device, but due to the cryptographic signature on the bootloader, kernel, and eFuse watching the ROM, you won't be sticking Android 2.3/3.0 on your Droid X (or Milestone) until Motorola decides you worthy.

If this lockdown was going to be fully hacked, it would have happened to the Milestone by now.

Re:Rooted, but.... (2, Insightful)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008574)

It seems that Motorola, like Apple before them, want to keep us all as digital serfs in their mobile fiefs (assuming you're foolish enough to buy one of their devices). That Apple want to control their system from hardware to OS is one thing; to see any mobile manufacturer, however, pissing all over the openness that Android supposedly grants is quite another.

Re:Rooted, but.... (1)

LBt1st (709520) | more than 4 years ago | (#33011400)

That's reason enough for me to not buy Motorola. It's a shame too because I've always been a fan of their hardware. Oh well. They'll be replaced.

Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0, Troll)

kalpaha (667921) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007800)

Why do people support companies that treat you like a criminal? We all know Apple is a fascist company (down to selling Mussolini speeches in app store) and know to expect this shit from them, but I thought Android was about openness? In comparison, this is how you root Nokia N900: http://techie-buzz.com/mobile-news/rooting-n900.html [techie-buzz.com]

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (4, Informative)

spleen_blender (949762) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007874)

This is the hardware manufacturer implementing Android, not Android itself, that is causing this disgrace.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

obender (546976) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008582)

This is a limitation of GPLv2. That's why it's so important to switch the Linux kernel to GPL version 3.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33009026)

What will that result in except for phone manufacturers switching to a worse OS?

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33016382)

GPL3 should give you access to the key ring.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (2, Insightful)

AndOne (815855) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009144)

It would seem that GPL3 has been out long enough that if its merits for switching the kernel to said license were so important it would've happened by now. Or is it possibly the case that not everyone has the exact same values as you and still enjoys the flexibility of using the kernel under GPL2. God forbid someone get rich off the collective works of society. Sure, they should contribute back, it's the nice thing to do, but really not everything has to be about forcing openness. I would rather a company build on a solid foundation rather than have to reinvent the wheel all the time. It tends to result in better products.

That's what phones are after all, consumer products. 99% of the world just wants a product and could give two shits about rooting or jailbreaking the device. The vast number of people who buy these phones will just be focused on comparing things like price, service, available apps and the usability of the product. There's a reason that the iPhone is/has been so successful. It came with a slick UI out of the box(and has gotten slicker). Sure it's not open, but most people don't care because it doesn't impact the way they want and expect to use said device. Sure, you're effectively renting the hardware since you can't run whatever you want on it. Sure, that's not ideal. But given the choice between a semi-locked down system that is easy to use, looks good and does what I want or an open system with a crufty UI and so-so ease of use, I'll take the first one most of the time. Especially if it's a device I don't want to have to mess with constantly.

Yes I've run Linux and Solaris and I like them for their purpose. I also run OSX on my macbook and windows7 cause they fit my purposes. I appreciate the openness of Linux and openSource, but I can also respect the decision not to be open source. And as I've spent more and more time using computers, the need for good UI design has become more and more a factor and I've come to care less and less about being able or needing to hack code to make it work.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

kalpaha (667921) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008610)

Yes, and that is why it is so disappointing: going against the spirit of Android.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

msauve (701917) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009244)

What do you think "the spirit of Android" is? You do realize that Android is provided under the Apache license, not the GPL, don't you (it's only the Linux kernel used by Android which is GPL)? Based on that "the spirit of Android [arstechnica.com] " seems to include implementing it in a closed, proprietary manner.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33007878)

You're retarded. Android IS ABOUT OPENNESS. Motorola just decided to not be for now. Android =/= Motorola.

Nokia N900 (2, Interesting)

MEK (71818) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007888)

I doubt that there is a better phone that is easier to play with. ;~}

And it works pretty good as a phone.

MEK

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33007900)

Android is open, the chip comes from Motorola. Well from IBM first then installed into the handset by Moto, but you get the idea. There are a bunch of emerging problems with Android based phones, what with Motorola pulling this stuff, Sprint loading bloatware on the handsets they put out. It seems the openess of Android can get lost after it gets wrung through handset manufacturers and wireless carriers who can close off portions of it at will.

Full disclosure: I own a Droid.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (4, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007914)

Why do people support companies that treat you like a criminal?

We buy things that do certain things. If they do those things that you care about well, they serve their purpose and end up being worth the money. Things like jail-breaking are just icing.

It's fun to make statements professing our desire to stick to our principles, but at the end of the day we still need email clients in our pockets.

   

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (2, Interesting)

Medievalist (16032) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008360)

at the end of the day we still need email clients in our pockets

I definitely don't want or need (or have) an email client in my pocket. I hope to one day be as successful as Dr. Knuth, [stanford.edu] so I won't need any email clients at all.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008454)

I definitely don't want or need (or have) an email client in my pocket.

What's your interested in a smart phone then?

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008690)

To be able to post on Slashdot what he/she doesn't want or need. Duh!

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008712)

My goal is to remain as open as possible, while still remaining within the realm of new technologies.
This is the reason I went with the HD2. Right now it's Windows, but it has a sweet hardware setup and a big ass screen, with lots of people chugging away on Android for it. The Winmobile seems good enough to get me by until Android is nice and stable on that platform... and until that point I can flash it with as many variations of Winmobile as I wish, along with Ubuntu if I want.

Jail breaking is something that needs to go the way of BeOS... Any phone that requires jailbreaking just isn't purchased by me.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0, Troll)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008768)

but at the end of the day we still need email clients in our pockets.

No you don't. You really aren't that important. People that ARE that important have underlings that read their email for them.

You don't NEED an email client in your pocket. And you're probably be more useful if you didn't respond to email with a twitch reaction like you were playing an FPS.

You might want an email client in your pocket because its convenient or because you think your that important, but the definition of want and need are different, you should look them up.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008902)

You might want an email client in your pocket because its convenient or because you think your that important, but the definition of want and need are different, you should look them up.

I work at several remote locations and need to keep in touch with both HQ and clients.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (2, Interesting)

wrygrin (128912) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009462)

We buy things that do certain things. If they do those things that you care about well, they serve their purpose and end up being worth the money. Things like jail-breaking are just icing.

well said - but for me, at least, the "icing" part underestimates the value of openness.

i'm near completing my second year of owning an android G1, and the thing has been spectacularly useful things i've owned. somewhere near the beginning of my second year i was increasingly frustrated with the limited apps storage space, though, and general thrashing of the android 1.6 install (perhaps due to my crowding it with apps, but i was trying to cut out unnecessary stuff, honest). rooting with cyanogenmod became pretty easy, and enabled me to use part of my 8 GB card (now 16GB:) for app storage. i'm now running android 2.1, thanks to cyanogen, and the phone is working better than it ever did at stock 1.5 or 1.6. it continues to be spectacularly useful 2 years out, where it was running out of steam at the end of one year while sticking with the stock system.

mind you, android 2 is not likely to ever be released for my phone by my vendor, and it would have been increasingly untenable for me to stick with this phone anywhere near as long as i have - despite loving the format (really decent physical keyboard, generally decent other stuff), and not seeing satisfying alternatives. for those reasons and others i could see staying with this thing for a while more - and if htc had locked out alternative os loads, i would not have had the choice.

consequently, as far as i can tell motorola phones, with their signed-boot restrictions, offer no lasting value to me, whatsoever, and are not in the running. i'll be eventually be looking for another android-based phone with a hardware keyboard - but it doesn't have to be soon, and it definitely won't be one that limits the long-term utility of the thing so drastically.

exactly what is useful can sometimes be difficult to gauge in advance, and that's where openness - allowing more options over the life of even an appliance - can be worth a lot.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33007926)

Because most are criminals and root the phone to steal tethering and violate the TOS?

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (2, Informative)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008038)

Except you don't need to root to tether an Android phone. There are many programs in the Market that will do that for you without needing root in any way.

So your completely ignorant point is completely worthless. Good thing you're a Coward.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008048)

Because most are criminals and root the phone to steal tethering and violate the TOS?

Tethering really should be free in the first place since its basically the same as surfing the web on your phone. Tethering just allows you to surf using your phone but with a prettier UI and more features.

Prettier UI encourages utilization (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008130)

Tethering just allows you to surf using your phone but with a prettier UI

The prettier UI encourages more utilization of the network. This imposes costs on the provider, as it needs to put up more towers to handle more utilization. Once these networks get saturated, you'll start to see providers like AT&T replacing unlimited plans with plans that charge per GB.

Re:Prettier UI encourages utilization (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008828)

Once these networks get saturated, you'll start to see providers like AT&T replacing unlimited plans with plans that charge per GB.

Well, currently, I'm paying $29 extra for data, so I'm already paying ~$5.80/Gb. Remember, most have a 5Gb cap limit on the "unlimited" plans.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008120)

Violating a contract is not a criminal offense, it is completely a civil matter.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008792)

Because most are criminals and root the phone to steal tethering and violate the TOS?

Motorola == hardware manufacturer
Motorola != Cell service provider

The only TOS Motorola has is in relation to the phone hardware.
That mentality died in the llate 80's early 90's... it's not an assumed criminal activity if you want access to custom phone software.

It's a touchy subject anyway, as you have activated an unlimited data plan with a 5Gb limit (unlimited.. 5gb limit... self defeating)... why pay for the ability to use it after you've paid to have it?

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007982)

Don't buy Motorola, but still buy an Android phone if you want.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

King_TJ (85913) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008008)

Ppfft.... your cheap shot at Apple aside for a moment (Is every single brick and mortar bookseller a "fascist company" too if they carry books about Mussolini containing his speeches?) ... The real problem here in the USA is with the standard business model for cellphone sales. Unlike most of the world, we have a system where we shop for a cellular provider based on which models of phones that provider offers/allows on their network.

Providers go to ever-greater lengths to ensure they've got an "exclusive deal" on a hot phone model, because often, it's the ONLY reason people will sign up for a 1-2 year contract for service with them.

Just recently, I signed up with the relatively small "Cricket wireless", because they let you pay a flat monthly rate for unlimited service (no counting minutes of usage or number of text messages sent/received!), and it's far cheaper than their competitors. On the downside, it's clear that one reason they're so inexpensive is due to their relative lack of ability to carry desirable phones! They've got a really poor selection of phones, practically all of which are 2 year old models already. Unlike most providers, the interesting thing with Cricket is, they're extremely willing to activate practically anything with an ESN number you want to give them. The independently operated Cricket reseller stores will often even re-flash phones for you for a fee, with hacked firmware, so you can put one on their network.

Unfortunately though, in a growing number of larger cities, Cricket has moved their CDMA network to "tri-band" mode instead of "dual-band", making a lot of popular phones out there unable to fully function on their network anymore. I bought a used Motorola Droid last week, not realizing this "gotcha", and proceeded to hack it for Cricket. They happily transferred my service to it for a $15 fee when I called in, but the phone would never actually activate after that. That's when I discovered the "tri-band" problem. If I wanted to drive about 50 miles outside of town, I suspect it would have suddenly activated in one of their dual-band CDMA areas -- but then I'd be stuck with it perpetually on "roam" when using it in town. (And with Cricket, you only get something like 60-120 minutes per month of roaming minutes with a given package - so that wouldn't get me very far!)

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (4, Insightful)

kalpaha (667921) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008534)

As far as I can tell, the real problem with the American phone market (maybe even in general?) is corporations assraping the consumer, gouging for money on features (tethering, ring tones, incoming calls/msgs etc. etc.) that are free and open to use with any sane provider (or sane country, where the gouging is regulated). So no argument there.

But really, against apple, a cheap shot it was not. Your bookstore analogy does not hold water, because bookstores in general do not set themselves up to be guardians of people's morals. I use a Mac both at work and at home and was a fanboy when most people were predicting the death of Apple, but jesus fucken christ is it ever hypocritical to allow apps with recorded speeches of a fascist, and at the same time ban:

  • satire (http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/04/apple-bans-satire/)
  • flash
  • nudity
  • the word "Android" (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/188760/apples_bans_go_way_too_far.html)
  • wifi hotspot tools (http://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/03/apple-bans-wifi-stumbler-iphone-apps-blames-use-of-private-apis.html)
  • facebook (http://www.product-reviews.net/2010/04/07/apple-bans-unofficial-facebook-app-for-ipad/)
  • any apps competing with them
  • jailbreakers (http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/02/16/160241/Apple-Bans-Jailbreakers-From-the-App-Store?from=rss)
  • Dalai Lama in China (http://techie-buzz.com/tech-news/apple-bans-dalai-lama-apps-in-china.html)

They set themselves up for criticism because seemingly they apply a ban policy that is both very stringent and basically a "if we don't like it, we don't accept it". So without ever owing an iPhone or ever using the app store, going by the news coverage alone, Apple seems to like:

  • fascist speeches
  • farting sounds
  • making money

Ok, so they probably do not attempt to advance a fascist ideology, but it is totally perverted nonetheless. I'd get rid of my Macs if only they weren't so damn good products. Ironically, it is Adobe products on a hassle free Unixy platform that keep me locked to Macs. Luckily, with cell phones, there's ample choice.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008152)

Why do people support companies that treat you like a criminal?

Because in a lot of cases, all companies that provide comparable products treat you like a criminal. I've explained many times how video game consoles are a prime example of this; I don't feel like being redundant about it today.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

skiflyer (716312) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008306)

Meh... because on this issue I don't care? I actually kind of like that Verizon and Motorola are managing the OS on my phone because I want it to just work. I am a little bummed that in 2 years when I want to upgrade the OS and they want me to upgrade the handset I'll have to upgrade the handset... but I'll get over it because it's a $200 device that I just want to work.

If I wanted an Android phone I could put custom OS's on, I would've bought a Nexus One. But I don't.

The thing you have to remember is that it's a balance of features, cost, usability, openness, etc. Virtually every purchase you'll have make has pros and cons, you determine what is precisely important to you and then make your choice. For the people who are buying the DroidX, an open bootloader is not one of them.

The portion that makes it tricky is those who don't know what a bootloader is... fact is they're a much larger market force than you or I. That's when regulators step in and decide what should be done for the sake of the consumer. You can argue that regulators should step in here, signed ROMs only circumvent the consumer's right to own their own property or some such, but I personally think you'd be stretching it. But asking why consumers would ever support a company that does this is willfully ignoring that a) most people don't know what you're talking about and b) many of us who do know what you're talking about just don't care.

My car also has a governor that keeps me from going over 120mph. But I still bought it as well, speeds over 120mph aren't something I'm too concerned with.

And you know, the menus on my TV are locked. Sony didn't give me the options to flash the OS on my TV, very upsetting... still bought it, which open TV did you buy?

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (2, Insightful)

bnenning (58349) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009448)

I actually kind of like that Verizon and Motorola are managing the OS on my phone because I want it to just work.

The ability to unlock your bootloader would in no way prevent it from "just working". As to why you should care even if you don't want to use custom ROMs: by now it should be clear that cell phones and their descendants are going to replace PCs for most of the population. If carriers and manufacturers are able to get away with using this transition as an excuse to take control over the hardware that we pay for, it will be very bad for future innovation and freedom.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008332)

Why do people support companies that treat you like a criminal? We all know Apple is a fascist company...and know to expect this shit from them, but I thought Android was about openness?

1 Most folks set out to buy a telephone - and not a hobby kit. The same folks who for 100 years paid AT&T for the certainty of a dial tone come hell or high water.

2 The app store inspires confidence in the appropriateness, quality and compatibility of an app. The terms and conditions for the developer and the price of the SDK is not their problem.

3 Apple cultivates an image that is upscale, urban and sophisticate. It's an image many of Apple's customers have found bankable - and nerd rage is not a credible substitute:

criminal...fascist...shit

You know, the decend into ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008458)

you know, Germany's decent into madness started out that way... "National Socialism appeals to certain aspect of my beliefs." "It's not interfering with my life, and it serves certain purpose in my life." etc. etc. that produced a regime which would later murder millions.

Surely, a phone maker won't be rounding up people and sending them to gas chamber anytime soon. But it's all these baby steps to continuously pushes the tolerance of people toward the ultimate goal of total domination over their users...

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008796)

(down to selling Mussolini speeches in app store)

Years ago, I had a spluttering Dutch woman lay into me because our generalist used-book store had a copy of Mein Kampf. I've got the same answer for you: I don't want people to forget the past. I want them to know and study that era in great detail to understand just how stupidly easy things go wrong. Not some Disney slash Reader'sDigest version that implies it was simple, and It Can't Happen Here. That's just another version of book-burning big-lie fascism, which is maybe something you need to study more.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

r00tyroot (536356) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008962)

Android is about openness, Motorola is not.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

Deadguy2322 (761832) | more than 4 years ago | (#33011436)

Correction: Android is about data mining opportunities for Google, and you federate shitheqds are so hypnotised by the bullshit Open Source rhetoric that you are all bleating like sheep for the opportunity to hand it all over to them. Motorola is shot selling phones, and don't give a shot one way or the other about you or any other neckbeard idiot.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009070)

its just a phone, sounds like you need to get a life.

Re:Why support companies that pull crap like this? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009928)

We all know Apple is a fascist company (down to selling Mussolini speeches in app store)

Well who da thunk it? This means Amazon, my local civic library, and even Project Gutenberg are all Nazis.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mein+kampf&x=0&y=0&ih=6_2_0_1_0_0_0_0_1_1.144_129&fsc=2 [amazon.com]
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt [gutenberg.net.au]

Thanks for the ever so "insightful" heads up.

Pointers... (1)

bobwrit (1232148) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007838)

Maybe Motorola needs pointers on how to spread propaganda from Apple?

Hmmm . . . (1)

caxis (855664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33007986)

"the first step in gaining complete control over the device." The first step in gaining complete control over the device . . . (?!) Am I the only person who finds it strange that we don't have complete control over devices we purchase by default? I mean . . . I know, I know, and I know. But still--all of this back and forth effort just seems retarded. Surely there is a better way to do this.

Re:Hmmm . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008074)

Because the device has access to a service for which people with the phone have an agreement to use. If you aren't going to use it with that service, then yes, there would be nothing wrong with you doing whatever you want to it. Changing the phone changes the way it uses that service, and it affects other people on said service.

Re:Hmmm . . . (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008110)

It does not, you have no ability to modify the baseband firmware. Educate yourself before you shoot off at the mouth.

Re:Hmmm . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008370)

Honestly, these companies do this because they can. Complete control over a device (okay, your device) is a power vacuum that they're more than happy to fill. Common folk don't know enough to care about it. Also, some companies are worse than others due to the dinosaurs they have on their committees. It takes time and incentives to change attitudes.

By the way, consumerism is the new serfdom.

Try a headline that conveys useful information. (5, Informative)

EjectButton (618561) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008024)

First of all there was never any sort of self-destruct device in the phone. The phone contains a bootloader that only loads signed roms which so far has prevented people from loading custom roms such as Cyanogen. The Motorola Milestone (european Droid) has the same issue, has been out for 8 months, and has yet to be cracked.

It's funny that the summary for this article has the text "putting to rest Andoid fans' fears that they would never gain access to the device's secrets due to a reported eFuse that would brick the phone" and links to a Slashdot story titled "Droid X Self-Destructs If You Try To Mod". So Slashdot posts a story with a bogus headline, and then later has another story saying how fear was created when it was "reported" that the phones would be bricked. Never stopping for a second to reflect on the fact that Slashdot itself was the one doing the bad "reporting".

While gaining root access is good news this particular exploit is one that has been around for a while and is ported from another version of Android on another phone. Not to dismiss the work that has been done here but the biggest problem for this device is and has always been the bootloader.

You must be new here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008736)

Taco and friends are imbeciles.

You know, down here in little ol' NZ (1)

Kryptonut (1006779) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008036)

if something is rooted - it's either been broken or copulated with. Especially sheep.

Re:You know, down here in little ol' NZ (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008562)

Good thing no one goes to NZ for anything except for (apparently used) sheep then isn't it?

Re:You know, down here in little ol' NZ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33009074)

and even then we tend to export the sheep to Australia when we're finished with them :D

Root has nothing to do with the eFuse (3, Informative)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008094)

Root is available, but not new rom images. Root is just a small first step. It will not really help in getting around the signed bootloader.

Re:Root has nothing to do with the eFuse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008216)

Root is available, but not new rom images. Root is just a small first step. It will not really help in getting around the signed bootloader.

And this is precisely why we need everything under the GPL v3.

In GPL3 land, when you buy a locked bootloader, you also get the key (at the same time and for no extra cost) .. so says the license agreement.

Bad summary (3, Insightful)

GweeDo (127172) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008228)

"putting to rest Andoid fans' fears that they would never gain access to the device's secrets due to a reported eFuse that would brick the phone if certain boot files were tampered with"

This in no way puts that to rest. Rooting your device doesn't touch the boot partition at all. What should put to rest the bricking issue is Motorola straight up saying it won't happen. (see here [engadget.com] )

Rooted == jailbreak? (0)

grub (11606) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008266)

Serious question firm an iPhone owner... I've always thought that the appeal of Android was that it was wide open. That had me considering picking up one in the future. If I have to perform what sounds like a jailbreak why should I not stick with my current (and possibly future) jail broken iPhones?

I must be missing something, please fill in the blanks.

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008448)

Serious question firm an iPhone owner... I've always thought that the appeal of Android was that it was wide open.

Android is an open source operating system. As such, part of its appeal, to a certain segment of the market (including manufacturers), is its openness.

That had me considering picking up one in the future.

Android (the mobile OS) is not a physical product that you can "pick up one" of.

Android is an an operating system which you can install on hardware. Phones and other devices which have been made to use Android are products you can pick up. Various hardware vendors and/or service providers that market such devices may have chosen to include restrictions with them that are not part of the base operating system.

If I have to perform what sounds like a jailbreak why should I not stick with my current (and possibly future) jail broken iPhones?

If your only concern when it comes to mobile hardware is having complete control of the device, then you are probably better off not getting a vendor-locked-down device (whether Android or iOS-based) in the first place, rather than rooting/jailbreaking locked-down devices.

If you have other concerns, but still value having control of the device, you probably want to look at particular hardware features of each device, particular software features of the bundeled OS and available Apps, the degree of control you have without taking unusual steps and the difficulty of gaining more control, and the services the device can be used with.

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (1)

grub (11606) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008540)

Thanks for the reply. I likes the idea of an open source mobile OS (having had free *nixes on my desktops since the 90's) which is why I had questions about "rooting" Android.

I realize Android is just the OS, should have been more clear ;)

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008674)

Some manufacturers make it very negligible hurdle to jump to get root. HTC for the most part seems to not care too much and in many ways seems to provide off the books help to many rooting/mod projects. (For example there were 4 leaks of various pre-release versions of the 2.1 OS for the Eris, one of which had an engineering bootloader)

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33009574)

Too lazy to log in.

I know the guy you answered eventually said "thanks" for your response, but wtf dude? Why the tirade about "Android is not a physical product that you can pick up one of"? You knew quite well what he/she was asking, and decided to troll for the sake of trolling. And you never answered the question posed.

I'm not sure why I come to Slashdot at times.

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (1)

scot4875 (542869) | more than 4 years ago | (#33034098)

Offtopic, but...

I'm not sure why I come to Slashdot at times.

Because, in comparison to discussions on the rest of the internet's general news aggregate sites, Slashdot is a bastion of reasonably intelligent open discussion.

--Jeremy

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33013878)

Here's a feature that most Android, WinMo, WebOS, Meego phones don't have. Nobody else sends location data back to itself for no good user-facing reason. Basically any app that uses a location service gets reported back to APL for some reason. Anonymizing GPS data? I laugh at that. Given a plot of user coordinates, I bet you that I can find out where they live and where they work given a decent sampling size.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Web-Services-Web-20-and-SOA/Apple-Tells-Congressmen-it-Batches-Encrypts-Location-Data-411968/

If you're at all concerned about your privacy, you'll probably want to go with a dumphone or another smartphone that doesn't:
a) answer to just one company
b) hide massive amounts of detail as to what it's doing

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (2, Informative)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008460)

Android the OS comes open but most of the phone makers lock down their hardware (likely due to pressure from carriers like Verizon and ATT). It has legitimate purposes such as making it hard for luzers to accidently do bad things to their phone. Rooting is pretty much the same thing as jailbreaking, I think there are some subtle differences.

Once you've got root you can usually (not in the Droid X or Milestone's case) run custom ROMs based upon the actual Android source (AOSP) or pretty much any other hardware too. It lets you add features to the phones such as overclocking, setting up wifi tethering, and adding newer wizz bangs to older phones that the maker no longer deems worth updating.

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008474)

*cough* I meant pretty much any other software... *cough*

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008670)

Serious question firm an iPhone owner... I've always thought that the appeal of Android was that it was wide open. That had me considering picking up one in the future. If I have to perform what sounds like a jailbreak why should I not stick with my current (and possibly future) jail broken iPhones?

Actually, Android is open-source, but not open. A very subtle difference, because you can have unrootable un moddable Android devices. Many manufacturers have made it basically impossible to do custom firmware - even Linux-running gadgets can have TiVo-ization things done to them.

The "open" part of Android OS compared to the iPhone is that apps don't have to go through the approval process, nor do they have to be bought from only the Android Marketplace. You can load apps in via SD card or USB, and Marketplace listing only needs like a flat fee per year (it's an open listing - you post your app and it shows up there, no approval process). Not sure how the Android piracy scene is (but I think it's minimal - most apps are free, and developers use ads for support rather than upfront payment and having to worry about piracy).

But for phone manufacturers, the OS itself is desired to be as closed as iOS is. Rooting it lets you do more things (like jailbreaking does on iOS). But custom ROMs and the like were another different thing altogether from rooting, and were done before Android and the requirement for source code even.

Windows Mobile devices from HTC often featured custom ROMs, but others were often locked down. Android's the same - just because it's running Android and you can grab the source, doesn't mean you can necessarily replace the ROM on your phone with it.

It's just that manufacturers haven't really cared much to do it. Motorola's starting to lock down their phones (just like they lock down their WinMo phones in the past). HTC appears to continue doing the same "we don't care" thing they did since the WinMo days. (Some HTC OEM designs hated that - they really didn't like xda-developers). But Android phones can be TiVo-ized. Especially since the majority of the OS code is designed that way (Apache license).

My only Android question is - is there any way to get Marketplace apps outside of the Marketplace app? Sometimes you see nice apps that are temporarily free and it would be nice to get them before they go up in price...

Re:Rooted == jailbreak? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33009420)

"My only Android question is - is there any way to get Marketplace apps outside of the Marketplace app? Sometimes you see nice apps that are temporarily free and it would be nice to get them before they go up in price..."

Check out AppBrain.

In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008374)

...I just rooted your mom!

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33008884)

Then you got sloppy seconds.

Linus Torvalds kept GPL2 for this reason. (5, Informative)

andydread (758754) | more than 4 years ago | (#33008770)

This is one of the reasons Linus kept the kernel GPL2 rather than moving to GPL3. He did not like the DRM clause and the Tivoisation clause. As far as Linus is concerned the manufacturers should be able to use DRM to block you from loading an OS they do not want you to load http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/51826 [linux.com]

Motorola are clearly assholes (5, Informative)

notknown86 (1190215) | more than 4 years ago | (#33009942)

In relation to the Motorola Milestone, which shares the locked bootloader with the Droid X.

Motorola are now "deciding" whether to push out Android 2.2 (with, you know, the Flash support *promised on the box*) to the device at all

For me - I've "decided" that they aren't getting more of my business - as far as I am concerned, they can go f*** themselves.

From James King, Motorola Marketing Director:

Next European Milestone and 2.2 (Froyo). I have expressed over the last few days that the decision is pending. The team here has been collating key pieces of information and views from this community in the last month and providing input to relevant teams in Motorola so they are aware. I am pushing for that decision to be made as quickly as possible, and we can then all go from there. Some others ask why the decisions on upgrades take so long, and why does implementation then take much longer still. What I can say and have stated recently is that upgrades are not a walk in the park. Sure there are short cuts that people can take, but when you have to integrate software to a specific hardware, then test it and integrate with third party applications, let alone any innovation from ourselves, plus then get approvals to make this all official and safe its is a big undertaking that requires planning and resource and third party coordination to see this all through. As I say, once we have decision, we will inform. JK

Re:Motorola are clearly assholes (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33011410)

This is exactly why it's important to be able to load custom ROMs. Android 2.2 has been available on the Droid for at least a week now, in the form of CyanogenMod [cyanogenmod.com] .

Re:Motorola are clearly assholes (2, Insightful)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 4 years ago | (#33013390)

This is all part of a plan to limit upgrades to existing phones, in order to push people into buying new ones. Simple.

A shame you believed the packaging though. Caveat emptor.

Re:Motorola are clearly assholes (1)

KlaymenDK (713149) | more than 4 years ago | (#33019666)

This is all part of a plan to limit upgrades to existing phones, in order to push people into buying new ones.

And it's working. I just bought a new phone, although my old phone is but a year old and cost a fortune.

Only, after I got burned by their i7500 Galaxy, I'm not one to ever buy another Samsung product, so my new phone is an HTC Desire. It doesn't seem like notknown86 is going to opt for a different Motorola phone, either. So yes, it's working, but not like I think they think it would.

good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33010344)

it is an open phone. Imagine how hard it would if it had been a closed phone.

depends on your definition. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33010366)

if you need to go to all this trouble to get control over the phone, the device was rooted from the start.

Google fanboys (0, Offtopic)

thetagger (1057066) | more than 4 years ago | (#33010632)

So, where are the Google fanboys that like to complain that Apple phones are SOOO CRIPPLED because Steve Jobs is TEH SATAN!?

Re:Google fanboys (1)

Arbition (1728870) | more than 4 years ago | (#33011278)

That's Google, not Motorola. I believe this has already been stated. Those that have the original dev phone (from google) don't have such a problem. but it is old, I'll admit. Also the lack of hardware keyboards on most other ones scares me away from them too.

Asymmetric cryptography is the problem (1)

Myria (562655) | more than 4 years ago | (#33011202)

I think for the freedom of the software world, we need to solve the discrete logarithm problem. There will never be freedom as long as it is mathematically possible to make digital signatures.

I said when the Xbox 1 came out that the way of the future was for all devices to have this digital signature-based boot loader stuff, now called Trusted Computing. I hate how I'm right so often.

Re:Asymmetric cryptography is the problem (1)

Deadguy2322 (761832) | more than 4 years ago | (#33011468)

Everyone else hates how you are such a douchebag.

So happy! (1)

Coolhand2120 (1001761) | more than 4 years ago | (#33011668)

I'm so happy to own a Droid X, so happy it's been rooted and I'm so happy to hear it from slashdot first!

Why slashdot isn't linking to http://AllDroid.org (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33018258)

For the record, slashdot linked to DroidXForums as if they were the originator of Rainabba's tutorial based on Birdman's root process, but in reality, DroidXForums (B16 in particular) only copied the tutorial from http://alldroid.org/Default.aspx?tabid=40&g=posts&m=5734#post5734

In their defense, they [slahsdot] wouldn't know that AllDroid was the originator because B16 stripped his copy of the post to remove all mentions of Rainabba and failed to link to AllDroid or provide any notable mention of them. B16 did later post a V2 of the tutorial (only after costing AllDroid as much as 49,000 hits) that properly credited and links the real authors and contributors.

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