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AU Government Censors Document On Planned Web Snooping

kdawson posted about 4 years ago | from the trust-us-on-the-other-ninety-percent dept.

Australia 169

MrPPS writes "The Australian Government plans to force ISPs to record and retain all citizens' communications traffic. The Sydney Morning Herald requested that the proposed policy documents be released under Freedom of Information laws. What they received was a document that was 90% censored, in order to prevent 'premature unnecessary debate.' More discussion on the Greyhat Security site. Here is the redacted document (PDF, 3.6 MB)."

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Keep it classy, Australia (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016066)

Having to work for you bastards, it really shouldn't be any surprise to me that you'd want to pull a dick move like this on your own citizens. I hope they vote all of your skanky asses right out of office.

Re:Keep it classy, Australia (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016444)

I lived in New York City for a year, right by Gramercy Park on 25th and Lexington. When a well-connected buddy of mine lent me his key to Gramercy Park, he asked, ‘What the fuck are you going to do in it, go walk your dog?’ And I was like, ‘No dude, I’m going to fuck in Gramercy Park.’ So I meet this girl and she is, like, all impressed that I have the key to Gramercy Park—she’s one of those girls. So we get to the park around midnight, and she’s acting kind of weird. But she didn’t have that much to drink. We start hooking up, and I was like, ‘Let’s have sex.’ And she was like, ‘No, I want to blow you, and I want you to finish in my mouth.’ I’m like, ‘Okay, fine. Whatever.’ So she goes down on me, and I finish. We go back to her place. She has another drink and is acting weird again. We begin fucking. She’s on top of me and starts wigging out. And I’m thinking, What the fuck is wrong with her? She falls off of me, opens the drawer next to her bed, pulls out a hypodermic needle, sticks it her thigh and shoots it. I’m thinking, What the fuck is going on? This is fucking freaking me out! You know what she was? Diabetic! It was hypoglycemic shock. She thought my come would stabilize her blood sugar. That was her thought process! I was like, You’ve got to be shitting me. You think my come is going to regulate your blood sugar? Seriously? Seriously!

Re:Keep it classy, Australia (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017238)

The average person does not possess the intellectual capacity, nor concern to vote properly. They do however, enjoy a great night of 24 and a few Bud Lights.

From my vantage point, Australia appears to be in the middle of a hostile takeover. Austrailians watch out. Soon you'll have RFID tags implanted in all babies at birth, without which you will not be able to enroll in school, participate in commerce, get a license of any type or receive health care. They will shroud this in a veil of protection propaganda.


To stop 'premature unnecessary debate' (4, Informative)

kaptink (699820) | about 4 years ago | (#33016090)

They did it to stop 'premature unnecessary debate', apparently.

They don't want any facts or public opinion getting in the way of something they have already decided on and that serves nobody else but themselves. [] []

Like they were popular enough already with the manditor filter? And comming up to an election I have to ask, WTF?

call muldar and scully (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016128)

This is definately an x file.

Did you read the document? (What was left of it) (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016422)

If you read the document you would have noticed the caveat on every page "No decisions have been made by the Government in relation to this proposal".

The Government was asking what data the ISPs currently retain and what technical issues there would be in retaining an undisclosed set of data.
While it does mean that there is some sort of interest in the Government to potentially adopt a mandatory data retention plan they are still trying to figure out if it is feasible before actually pursuing it as policy.

Have a look:

This is likely nothing more than a staffer trying to answer the question "What would happen if we did this?" as posed by a politician.

Re:Did you read the document? (What was left of it (4, Insightful)

martin-boundary (547041) | about 4 years ago | (#33016728)

A single staffer is in no position to weigh the pros and cons of technical measures to retain data, and the social and economic impact of doing so. A politician whose knowledge on the matter consists of a document cobbled together by a staffer is in no position to weigh the pros and cons of technical measures to retain data, and the social and economic impact of doing so. A parliament full of politicians whose knowledge on the matter consist of documents cobbled together by staffers are in no position to weigh the pros and cons of technical measures to retain data, and the social and economic impact of doing so.

At which point do you feel that the Australian public should be consulted for the real facts and opinions?

Re:Did you read the document? (What was left of it (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about 4 years ago | (#33017076)

This is likely nothing more than a staffer trying to answer the question "What would happen if we did this?" as posed by a politician.

That's pure speculation.

Re:Did you read the document? (What was left of it (1)

deniable (76198) | about 4 years ago | (#33017846)

This is likely nothing more than a staffer trying to answer the question "What would happen if we did this?" as posed by a politician.

That's irrelevant. FOI requests require that all working copies and notes be provided, at least when I've seen them. Working copies are covered.

Re:To stop 'premature unnecessary debate' (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017082)

This is because Australia is not a democracy, it is a dictatorship.

If the people cannot vote on anything that actually matters, then they are being dictated to.

And guess who is behind all of this. Surely not our friends the Jews? It couldn't be, not the poor, hard done by Jews, who haven't got two pennies to rub together.

You know, the poor Jews who run almost the entire media, own almost all the banks, which operate fractional reserves, meaning they are allowed by law to print money out of thin air, and then YOU owe them your house, your labour, your car, etc. if you can't pay it all back, plus the interest, which again, comes out of thin air. You know, the poor Jews who are so 'powerless' that you would lose your job if you dared to even say the word "Jew".

Re:To stop 'premature unnecessary debate' (4, Interesting)

donaldm (919619) | about 4 years ago | (#33017764)

Unfortunately the Labour Party (Current Federal Government) seems to be strongly influenced by people who have the attitude of "We must protect the Children" or "We know what is best for this county" or some such "Holy than thou" ideas. I would be fairly sure that the people who dream up these ideas are genuinely concerned with improving society however you cannot improve society by forcing society to adopt your point of view. This reminds me of the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Since the document in question is so heavily censored you really have to ask what is are the Government afraid off. After-all it not as if the document could be classified as top secret and with so much censorship the mind boggles.

Since I am a swinging voter I will not be voting for Labour this coming Federal election the problem is I am not to keen on the opposition either.

Re:To stop 'premature unnecessary debate' (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017928)

Then fill out the preference list explicitly putting Labour last, the Libs second to last, and all the other parties in your preferred order.

Re:To stop 'premature unnecessary debate' (1)

Firethorn (177587) | about 4 years ago | (#33018392)

Here in the United States, I happened to be listening to NPR and them talking about the National Secrets Act.

Basically, since the '50s there has been a precedent where the government simply says 'revealing this would harm national security' and any lawsuit was thrown out.

The original case that went before the Supreme Court and this precedent was set involved a bomber crash that killed 3 civilian contractors.

The USAF consistently argued that revealing the accident report would harm national security. The lower court said fine and found against the .gov. The appeals court said the same. The supreme court overturned it, without ever even asking to privately see the accident report.

Couple years ago one of the daughters finally got ahold of the declassified accident report - which even unredacted didn't contain anything that was classified or unknown back then.

Basically, I understand the need for governments to keep secrets. I just think that there needs to be a review process. You don't need to let everybody view classified documents when a lawsuit comes up, but an independent, neutral party would be a good idea.

Heck, we manage to have military trials where classified evidence is presented, I'm sure that we could come up with Something, even if it was - 'We can't tell you what happened due to national security issues, but here's some money to go away'.

'premature unnecessary debate. (5, Insightful)

MRe_nl (306212) | about 4 years ago | (#33016092)

aka democracy.

call muldar and scully (0, Troll)

chronoss2010 (1825454) | about 4 years ago | (#33016136)

this is definitely an x file

Re: 'premature unnecessary debate. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016456)

Reminds me of how Obongo claimed that Americans didn't care about procedure as Congress was cramming ObongoCare up our asses - the will of their constituents be damned! 11% approval rating assholes. Start packing your bags!

Re: 'premature unnecessary debate. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016886)

11% approval rating assholes. Start packing your bags!

95% reelection rate, fellas. Any rumors of being voted out are greatly exaggerated. Leave your suitcases in the closet for a couple more years at least...

Black Jesus (-1, Troll)

Das Auge (597142) | about 4 years ago | (#33017072)

You insulted Black Jesus and you were modded down for it.

Apparently some of the mods on Slashdot don't like unnecessary debate either...

Re:Black Jesus (4, Insightful)

twidarkling (1537077) | about 4 years ago | (#33017194)

Couldn't be the "Obongo" bit, or the off-topic, incendiary nature of the post that got him that, could it? Nah, it's gotta be the raging hard-on everyone has for Obama, and not the fact that someone correctly noted that the post was not designed to spark intelligent discourse, but instead to inflame and derail.

Re: 'premature unnecessary debate. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017788)

Yes, how dare Congress take a vote to enact legislation. Don't they know it only counts if at least half the people voting are Republicans? Otherwise, it's taxation without representation!

Goddamn teabaggers - can't you just all pick a state and fucking secede already? I'm tired of watching my tax dollars go to subsidize roads to hick towns full of inbred retards who hate anybody who finished high school and has more than 5 teeth.

Re: 'premature unnecessary debate. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33018332)

"Goddamn teabaggers..."

Ah, good old Anderson Cooper's only lasting contribution to cable news! If anyone would know about teabagging it would be him now, wouldn't it? Judging by the content of your reply, I'm having a really hard time believing that you finished high school and have more than 5 teeth. It just makes your liberal blood boil that your nigger messiah is going to be a lame duck next year, and homeless in two years, doesn't it?

Re: 'premature unnecessary debate. (0, Offtopic)

Dhalka226 (559740) | about 4 years ago | (#33018504)

I feel bad replying to a troll at all, but you're dreaming about the "start packing your bags" stuff.

I remember a story a few years ago saying congressional approval levels are always dismally low and yet historically about 90% of congressmen are re-elected. Why? Because the majority of people absolutely hate Congress but think their personal representatives are doing a pretty good job. Even in the Democrats' "sweeping victory" in the 2008 elections when everybody was beyond fed up with Bush and the Republicans, only 31 (voting) seats changed hands in the US House of Representatives. For those who don't know American politics, all 435 voting seats were up for re-election. 92.18% re-election rate. That's not to say there wasn't a strong consequence, of course, since the Democrats became the majority party in both houses and controlled the White House -- but it's still a small amount of change overall.

I wish I could find a source, but I honestly don't even know what I'd be searching for since "Congressional approval ratings" obviously won't get the job done. The data from the 2008 election was from Wikipedia [] .

The ASP (5, Insightful)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (895364) | about 4 years ago | (#33016096)

The only realistic vote in Australia seems to be a vote for the Australian Sex Party.

The other parties seem totally infested by moralism and corruption.

AILARTSUA (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016250)

In Soviet Australia, every Party except the Sex Party wants to Fuck you.


Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016332)

This isn't Soviet styled politics, it's ultra right winged politics, that smacks of extreme Christian puritanism.

Odd isn't it how similar the extremes of the political divide operate.

The only difference is the so called 'freedom' element, ie democratic elections, free enterprise.....


WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 4 years ago | (#33017056)

Whoosh!!! 'nuf said.

Re:AILARTSUA (2, Funny)

ultranova (717540) | about 4 years ago | (#33016358)

Australian Government: By the Convicts, For the Convicts.


blind monkey 3 (773904) | about 4 years ago | (#33016616)

Australian Government: By the Politicians, For the Politicians.
Fixed that for you.

Re:AILARTSUA (2, Funny)

heathen_01 (1191043) | about 4 years ago | (#33017078)

I'm having trouble seeing what you fixed...


Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016962)


Seriously, that shit wasn't funny when it was new.

Re:The ASP (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016692)

The only realistic vote in Australia seems to be a vote for the Australian Sex Party.

Russell Wattie (Camel) is running for a place in the Senate. He is a spokesman for the United Motorcycle Council of Queensland. He is against the anti-freedom of association laws (aka anti-biker laws), the ABCC and for a bill of rights.

There is also the LDP [] who might prove worthwhile and if they can get it registered, for future elections the Pirate Party Australia []

Re:The ASP (1)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (895364) | about 4 years ago | (#33016736)

So you have your own Pirate Party? Very interesting...

Not being an australian I haven't seen much of the LDP before. What was their stance on the filtering etc. etc?

Re:The ASP (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017444)

Oops, should have checked the link: [] is their site. Their policy on censorship. []

The Liberal Democratic Party supports free speech and is opposed to government censorship of books, videos, games and the internet. We:

  Oppose any non-voluntary internet filtering or censorship.
  Believe no film, book or game should ever be banned outright except in cases where its making involved the commission of a crime, such as abuse of children.
  Support legalising the sale of X-rated pornography.
  Support the introduction of an R-rating and X-rating for video games, thus legalising games that have previously been banned.
  Support a review of current film and game classification criteria, taking a rational rather than morality driven approach to classification.

Re:The ASP (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016838)

The only realistic vote in Australia seems to be a vote for the Australian Sex Party.

The other parties seem totally infested by moralism and corruption.

I prefer the Australian Greens. They are actually both very similar on their views (letting in asylum seekers, stopping this Internet filtering scheme) and definitely has a environmental friendly approach.

Re:The ASP (4, Interesting)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | about 4 years ago | (#33016920)

The other parties seem totally infested by moralism and corruption.

It's more than just the politicians. Actions like these require substantial cooperation from the civil service. I often wonder just how wide and how deep the desire for censorship runs in Australia.

Could any Australian slashdotter provide the wider subtext which is altogether absent in these stories? What is the driving element of society that is pushing for this censorship and how much support do they have among most Australians? Is this part of a historical trend or a new development? How deeply are the Australian political, state, and legal systems affected by it?--Not to mention the corporations. Why does Australia seem to be pursuing these laws so zealously?

Re:The ASP (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017572)

Could any Australian slashdotter provide the wider subtext which is altogether absent in these stories?

I have no idea, aside from the basic "because they have power and want to keep it", which is probably at best a small, subconscious part of it, but even at worst is probably a bit simplistic and not taking everything into account.

This has obviously been going on for years though, under the guise of the Mandatory Internet Filter, the stated purpose of which is to protect children, but really is so technically flawed that its only practical use would be monitoring citizens. That's being pushed by Stephen Conroy, the Minister for Communications, who is openly catholic - another element of the puzzle perhaps, but still not enough to convince me it's the whole picture.

Our foreign policy and defense force is mainly focussed on southeast Asia, and one of our biggest trade partners is China (who we've had to succumb to unfair deals with before), so I think that's an element as well, and there may be honest but incorrect feelings about censorship being an easy way to provide better national security.

We have a large, difficult to police coastline and always seem to have issues with people traffickers ("boat people"). There's been outrage at our refugee detention centres being inhumane towards victims of people trafficking, and there's a strong racist component among voters everywhere (not just Australia), so that's something that politicians have to deal with. I think shutting the citizens up here is probably an element of all the censorship, but I just see it as a sign of an incompetent government.

Posting as AC because "help, help, I'm being repressed!"

Re:The ASP (4, Informative)

Frogbert (589961) | about 4 years ago | (#33017660)

There are two major parties in Australia, the Labor party and a coalition between the Liberal Party and the National Party.

Both are pretty much the same, Labor is perhaps centre left, and the other two are Centre Right. Though in American terms they would all probably be classed as far left.

The balance of power at the moment is pretty much 45% Labor, 45% Coalition, 10% smaller parties.

The smaller parties are Independants (Generally Centre Right), Greens (Left wing), and the Family First party (Ultra right wing).

Essentially for any government to get anything done they need to get the Family First party onboard, and in general, Christian votes. The Family First party is pretty much a church group, all their candidates are former Pastors etc.

So basically:
- Christians (in South Australia) hold the swing vote.
- Most Australians think this shit is bullshit.
- Our opinion doesn't count.

Re:The ASP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017858)

So basically:
- Progressives (in South Australia) hold the swing vote.
- Most Australians think this shit is bullshit.
- Our opinion doesn't count.

Fixed that for you.

Re:The ASP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33018338)

So it's just like Finland nowadays, then. Welcome to the club.

Re:The ASP (1)

Interoperable (1651953) | about 4 years ago | (#33017752)

I've only just moved to Australia so I can't really provide much political insight but there is interesting global context for this story in particular. That's that many other countries, including the U.S. have laws like this that are already in effect. Obviously the law wouldn't require all traffic content to be recorded, but rather IP logs to put internet traffic on similar footing to telephone calls. The police can look up who you talked to and when with a subpoena but no warrant.

I might be wrong, I'm basing this on similar legislation that was just passed in Canada, but that was my impression of the heavily redacted document. At least in Australia and Canada there is debate. I'm fairly certain that in the U.S. such logs are already maintained by law as well; the U.S. was used as the example that Canada was lagging behind in terms of security. Not only do U.S. ISPs maintain IP logs but traffic flowing across the American border is monitored by the NSA with almost no public supervision. And American public information is snooped and logged by the NSA. Quite frankly, the U.S. approach to monitoring it's citizens it's much more invasive, secretive and frightening.

The redacted document is a miserable failure of the current government to provide transparency, but at least the measures taken by the Australian government will be made public before they go into law; even if debate on the issue is curbed. It's far from an ideal situation, but I'd take Canadian or Australian internet laws over the NSA.

Re:The ASP (4, Interesting)

donaldm (919619) | about 4 years ago | (#33018110)

While I was not born in Australia (Originally UK from Scottish and Irish parents) I have lived in Australia for over 40 years. Australian society is in general fairly easy going with the majority of people well educated and having a very good standard of living. As far as the structure of the Australian Government a good source is here [] .

There is a saying "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance", well this apples to all societies but when you have politicians or lobbyists who want to shape society in a way that conforms to what they believe in and push their beliefs on society then you are going to have problems. This is not to say that these people have bad intentions however to force one's beliefs on society is IMHO very wrong.

Since the Federal Labour party came to power it has been strongly influenced by what I would call "bible bashers" or "bible thumper's" if you like who seem to want to shape society in their own image since they seem to perceive that they know best. Basically no politician in their right mind wants to be seen as forcing rapid change so they make incremental changes coupled with sayings like "Think of the children" (lets censor the internet more) or (sigh!) "Speeding kills" (lets have more speed cameras) just to name a few.

Australian society is not any different to any other democratic society but like any democracy, people need to be aware of issues which could in the long run affect their freedoms and vote accordingly. At least we do have that right at the moment..

Re:The ASP (5, Interesting)

zuperduperman (1206922) | about 4 years ago | (#33018380)

Australians have a very different attitude to government than Americans, and perhaps to some extent many other countries.

By and large, they see the government as a service provider. It provides their health care, education (right through from elementary school through to university), postal service, once upon a time even the telephone network and power and water services. Basically, any exigent need that an Australian citizen feels is immediately reflected in their mind to the government as the first port of call as to who should fill it. The government is accutely attuned to this and doesn't hesitate to jump in and try to first exaggerate the need for and then propose some (usually token but sufficient to win votes) solution to the "problem". This, combined with the fact that Australia has been a peaceful democracy since inception (if you ignore Aborigines, but that is what Aussies do) has lead to an implicit trust of government that simply doesn't exist in the US.

Now, don't get me wrong - Aussies hate the government - they are full of cynicism and basically assume that every politician is corrupt and every bureaucrat is incompetent. But they don't think they are evil. They would never even imagine that their government might persecute them or become their enemy in a war, etc. Even if they did, the government is so institutionalized in normal people's lives that it is basically pointless to worry about it. The American viewpoint seems a little bit ludicrous to most Australians - really, you want to hold onto your guns and absolute rights to free speech just in case you want to overthrow your entire government one day - like that is actually going to happen? You, with your pop gun are going to take on your nuclear armed government?

So when the government says they want to censor or monitor the internet, most people see it no differently to if your ISP announced that as a new extra feature to protect them. You pay for virus checkers and filters on your home computer, now the government is going to do that for free - awesome! It sounds like a good idea (catch more criminals, protect children etc) and due to implicit trust they have they don't really pursue it to question whether evil things might be done as a result, and even if they do it seems like a very theoretical, abstract concept.

Ignorance is Strength (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016960)

The only realistic vote in Australia seems to be a vote for the Australian Sex Party.

The other parties seem totally infested by moralism and corruption.

You can't vote for a party [] that has already been banned [] (by the Internet filters).

Electronic Frontiers Australia, which the Australian government has labeled an extremist organization, says;

We have to turn the age-old question back on the government: if you don't have anything to hide, then you shouldn't be worried about people having insight into the consultation.

Of course the government has excuses for its hypocrisy; if it makes more laws then there will be more criminals, and an educated criminal is a threat to society; so the goal of the government is to try to keep people ignorant. Ignorance is Strength [] .

Re:The ASP (1)

Pteraspidomorphi (1651293) | about 4 years ago | (#33017910)

I think you mean pseudomoralism... In any sane frame of reference, corruption is much more immoral than, say, violent videogames (you may argue these aren't immoral at all for you, as they aren't for me, but they are for some people). You can't be corrupted and moral at the same time, and from what I've seen the current australian government is so corrupted they don't even make a proper effort to hide it anymore.

Text Recovery? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016100)

I wonder if this is one of those cases where someone can lift the text from behind the blacked out image, that would be some just irony: "just like how filtering wouldn't work, their censorship wouldn't work"

Scanned document (4, Interesting)

Mathinker (909784) | about 4 years ago | (#33016210)

It's a scanned document with physical blacking out, unlike the last few failed PDF censorship attempts in which there were merely added black objects obscuring the undeleted original text.

Might still be able to get some information out with image processing, but I doubt we're going to get a lot. I'm off to give it a shot.

Re:Text Recovery? (1)

boarder8925 (714555) | about 4 years ago | (#33016214)

Unfortunately it appears that they redacted text by blacking it out with permanent marker or somesuch...

Re:Text Recovery? (2, Funny)

orkysoft (93727) | about 4 years ago | (#33016822)

Just make up whatever you want it to say. What, are they going to deny that that's what it said? Didn't think so.

Well, at least it's not for national security, eh? (5, Insightful)

Mathinker (909784) | about 4 years ago | (#33016130)

To prevent "premature unnecessary debate" --- gotta give them credit that at least they're not lying about their motivations, unlike using "national security" to keep ACTA negotiations secret.

"premature unnecessary debate" (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016140)

Pesky democracy. Let us pass the bill, then you can debate it.

Re:"premature unnecessary debate" (0, Offtopic)

FooAtWFU (699187) | about 4 years ago | (#33018490)

Umm, you mean like Nancy "We need to pass the bill so you know what's in it" Pelosi on health care? Because, I mean...

Dear Au Gov: (1)

instagib (879544) | about 4 years ago | (#33016164)

Please publish all of your employee's internet connections from the past 3 months. This should include all connections from their family members as well.
Once you complied, we can discuss your idea. If you don't, that plan of yours is just premature and unnecessary.

news of major quakes in au/asia region (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016186)

don't see it in with 'stuff that matters', or anywhere else really. more than enough gooing on here for US anyway. finding out what the 'snoopers' look at can be interesting as well.

meanwhile (possibly a difficult unsettling while); the corepirate nazi illuminati is always hunting that patch of red on almost everyones' neck. if they cannot find yours (greed, fear ego etc...) then you can go starve. that's their (slippery/slimy) 'platform' now. see also:

never a better time to consult with/trust in our creators. the lights are coming up rapidly all over now. see you there?

greed, fear & ego (in any order) are unprecedented evile's primary weapons. those, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' life0cidal hired goons' agenda. most of our dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'wars', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid schemes. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & any notion of prosperity for us, or our children. not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one, & the terminal damage to our atmosphere (see also: manufactured 'weather', hot etc...). see you on the other side of it? the lights are coming up all over now. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be your guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. we now have some choices. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on your brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

"The current rate of extinction is around 10 to 100 times the usual background level, and has been elevated above the background level since the Pleistocene. The current extinction rate is more rapid than in any other extinction event in earth history, and 50% of species could be extinct by the end of this century. While the role of humans is unclear in the longer-term extinction pattern, it is clear that factors such as deforestation, habitat destruction, hunting, the introduction of non-native species, pollution and climate change have reduced biodiversity profoundly.' (wiki)

"I think the bottom line is, what kind of a world do you want to leave for your children," Andrew Smith, a professor in the Arizona State University School of Life Sciences, said in a telephone interview. "How impoverished we would be if we lost 25 percent of the world's mammals," said Smith, one of more than 100 co-authors of the report. "Within our lifetime hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions, a frightening sign of what is happening to the ecosystems where they live," added Julia Marton-Lefevre, IUCN director general. "We must now set clear targets for the future to reverse this trend to ensure that our enduring legacy is not to wipe out many of our closest relatives."--

"The wealth of the universe is for me. Every thing is explicable and practical for me .... I am defeated all the time; yet to victory I am born." --emerson

no need to confuse 'religion' with being a spiritual being. our soul purpose here is to care for one another. failing that, we're simply passing through (excess baggage) being distracted/consumed by the guaranteed to fail illusionary trappings of man'kind'. & recently (about 10,000 years ago) it was determined that hoarding & excess by a few, resulted in negative consequences for all.

consult with/trust in your creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." )one does not need to agree whois in charge to grasp the notion that there may be some assistance available to us(

boeing, boeing, gone.

Redacted (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#33016198)

I hope they are sloppy as we are about redacting PDFs...

Re:Redacted (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016222)

printed, blacked out, and scanned. Hopefully someone sends the full doc to wikileaks.

Well, there you have it (3, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | about 4 years ago | (#33016204)

If the people of Australia ever needed proof that their government now regards them as "subjects" in the most pejorative sense of the term now that they are largely unarmed and defenseless against the state, openly talking about "premature unnecessary debate" should do it.

It's because ... (1)

farlukar (225243) | about 4 years ago | (#33016224)

... information wants to XX XXXX.

Re:It's because ... (1)

md65536 (670240) | about 4 years ago | (#33017004)

... information wants to XX XXXX.

I have something very important to say to that. Here goes:


Note: This comment was edited to save people the trouble of bothering with unnecessary replies. You're welcome!

"We have to assume the worst..." (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#33016246)

So that's what we've reduced ourselves to, huh? Let's hope everybody acts on that assumption and does their best to put a stop to this. And quit electing these assholes! Alright?

Re:"We have to assume the worst..." (1)

donaldm (919619) | about 4 years ago | (#33018176)

Unfortunately many voters vote for the party not the policies that party stands on. Even though Australians are in general well educated and have a high standard of living many voters don't seem to want to be aware of anything that does not directly affect them. This is the same sort of attitude that all democratic societies have to confront and politicians are very astute in making sure that any so called packages are warped up in simple words (ie. "Think of your children") that sound reasonable to voters that aren't really interested in looking at the long term consequences.

Parse error (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016256)

"The Australian Government plans to force ISPs record and ..."

Submitter and Slashdot "editor" fail.

And as always with censorship... (4, Insightful)

owlnation (858981) | about 4 years ago | (#33016304)

For curbing "premature unnecessary debate", Australian Government, meet Barbara Streisand...

Disclaimer... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016306)

Anyone notice the disclaimer?

From the document: "The paper intends only to stimulate discussion on the issues set out in it. The results of these discussions will be used to inform government consideration of these matters."

SO how does this relate to the whole prevent 'premature unnecessary debate' thingy...

Storage vendors are jumping up and down with glee (4, Funny)

nurb432 (527695) | about 4 years ago | (#33016336)

Can you imagine the cost of complying with 'recording all customers traffic'?

Re:Storage vendors are jumping up and down with gl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016502)

Can you imagine the cost of complying with 'recording all customers traffic'?

please send me that incredibly large random number you have been promising me - thx

just put it in the header...

Re:Storage vendors are jumping up and down with gl (2, Interesting)

misexistentialist (1537887) | about 4 years ago | (#33017410)

That is why ISPs have 1GB bandwidth caps and support blocking most websites altogether.

Re:Storage vendors are jumping up and down with gl (2, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | about 4 years ago | (#33017886)

Depends, the Defence Signals Directorate and ASIO would do this by default, fishing for words and connecting friends of friends.
They are just very passive about it so people still feel the anonymity of the web.
State and federal task forces do log you once they get interested.
Your average Australian ISP would just pass cost on to users or request a federal grant.
No more new data caps or lower prices fro a while as they pay for cheap Narus clones.

Scary (1)

Reginald2 (1859758) | about 4 years ago | (#33016348)

I have trouble even comprehending "record and retain all citizens' communications traffic." To think that someone would tolerate a government spying on web traffic, I mean it's not like we're talking about cell phones here.

Can anyone please tell me why... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016356)

What possible reason is it in anyone's best interest to spend mountains of treasure to create a massive archive of every single internet transaction apart from the people who sell hard drives.

How much electricity will be needed to run this server farm?
Exactly what evidence is there that this archive will result in .... well, what exactly. More prosecutions? Public officials whacking off to citizens' cyber sex chat transcripts?
What will the start up and long term fiscal costs be?
  What safeguards are there to prevent this archive by being used only in the prevention of serious crimes.
  What is the audit system to be to ensure that it won't be abused?


Re:Can anyone please tell me why... (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about 4 years ago | (#33017988)

I can only understand the thinking as something like this. Interpol, FBI, AFP sees a ip from Australia connected to terror or a crime related to a child in danger.
The idea that local law enforcement have to 'wait' for a court, get paper work, contact the isp, wait, get the address and start logging, request a delayed notification warrant. Its a huge long list that this hopes to avoid.
Your is is spotted, a trusted, vetted, trained officer enters your IP and gets to see your details in seconds for an ISP in Australia. That can be linked to wider state and federal databases. Do you have children, work with children, travel, language skills, CC use, phone calls made...?
Your web surfing history loads up too and with some reading a person of interest is flagged or someone has faulty wifi might drop out.
No waiting, no errors, rapid deployment if needed, long term monitoring for international collaboration.
Safeguards would be basic vetting and onsite physical lockdown. Audit system would be random logs to ensure your not requesting doing outside work :)
Long term, Australia might outsource aspects too :)

Request: Draggable topic icons (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016366)

Dear Slashdot, I'd like to be able to drag that Crocodile Dundee hat on top of the Censorship Guy's head; it would look cool. The crown would also look cool. Please make this change ASAP, thanks.

Do as Liberals say, not as they do... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016388) []

Ahh, here's a fine example of how liberals love to tell us how they're going to spend our money for us, but when it comes to their money they are conservative to the core.

Of course they did! (1)

wiresquire (457486) | about 4 years ago | (#33016390)

Of course they censored it.
This falls under the realm of a threat to national security.


I thought "V for Vendetta" took place in England? (2, Insightful)

cybersquid (24605) | about 4 years ago | (#33016392)

Is this a reboot I hadn't heard of?

Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (4, Insightful)

CuteSteveJobs (1343851) | about 4 years ago | (#33016396)

We've got an election three weeks away where voters will have the opportunity to throw out Julia Gillard. Gillard is Rudd's deputy who knifed him in the back to take his job, yet was party to all his unpopular decisions. She is continuing to support the web filter (though deferred implementing it until after the election).

In the other corner is Tony Abbott, a conservative catholic who is also pro-web filter (see earlier comments in Slashdot).

These are the two major parties in Australia. Their policies are so similar it's hard to tell them apart. One of them will win. What sort of a choice is this?

Re:Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (1)

emt377 (610337) | about 4 years ago | (#33016464)

What sort of a choice is this?

What? We give you democracy and now you ask for choices?! What an attitude! You're not a team player!

Re:Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 years ago | (#33016864)

Paralyse them by stacking the senate with minor parties. I plan to put liberal and labour at the bottom of the senate ticket.

Re:Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#33017100)

What sort of a choice is this?

The choice they made. They can always turn a major party into a minor one with the stroke of a... what do they vote with? Pen? Magic marker? Touch screen? Anyway the choice is there to squander away with a wasted vote for the regulars, and then resume complaining about it.

Re:Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (5, Insightful)

heathen_01 (1191043) | about 4 years ago | (#33017150)

Insightful? There are more than 2 choices.

Re:Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (1)

auLucifer (1371577) | about 4 years ago | (#33017762)

"but then I'd waste my vote!" /sarcasm
seriously though. I never understood why people don't vote for other parties or why people vote for the prime minister. We vote for our local candidates, not the party leader. If the party gets enough seats then their leader takes the prime ministers job but we still have to think of ourselves locally. Sometimes it's just a bit frustrating
And those that think they're throwing the vote away, vote for your favourite party and then put your "non-waste" vote as first preference.
Can anyone offer real insight into why people vote this way? Is it how the parties advertise themselves, or maybe it's because the local candidates align themselves so closely with the leader. I don't get it.

Re:Vote Tweedledum or Tweeledee (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about 4 years ago | (#33018002)

Consider the views
Vote as you like :)

Aust Government showing worrying trend (4, Interesting)

omnibit (1737004) | about 4 years ago | (#33016414)

The current Australian government is showing some startling and disturbing trends with their disapprobation for the rights to privacy. First there was Senator Conroy's (Minister for Broadband, Communications, etc) plan to retain a secretive government register, unbeknownst to the public, that would filter websites it deemed to have no classification. Child pornography was the chief motivator but like with so many other noble beginnings, it spawned into an ugly beast - a register with the capacity to capture (and did capture as we now know) websites ill-suited to blacklisting.

Now we have the Attorney-General seeking to deny privacy rights without public consultation. The very people who are affected the most by this policy are unable to comment due to a rather spurious argument that 'premature' debate might in some way affect the purpose of the policy.

There is something grossly wrong with this - if you want to snoop, spy or store data of citizens, by all means - but as a Government, you must get the consent of the population and be willing to accept rejection of said proposal. Silencing or blocking comment is in direct conflict of the notion of democracy.

Privately, I'd revile any Government where my information needs are suddenly in question. The adage 'if you don't have anything to hide, show it' fails - I should never be coerced to reveal anything about me without cause - that's privacy. Respect that.

Re:Aust Government showing worrying trend (2, Insightful)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | about 4 years ago | (#33016830)

Child pornography was the chief motivator but like with so many other noble beginnings, it spawned into an ugly beast

If you think that the child pornography hysteria that fuelled these actions was noble, I don't see what you consider so ugly about these inevitable conclusions. Rotten causes leads to rotten effects.

Bar Graphs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016514)

I know this is a serious censorship problem and all that, but honestly, all the pages in a row with lists and tables consisting entirely of marked out data made me burst out laughing. It looks like someone had a lot of fun making bar graphs with a magic marker.. Did they really expect this to quell discussion?

If they actually did it (1)

VocationalZero (1306233) | about 4 years ago | (#33016558)

IF this isn't just a political stunt, and actually becomes law, it would only be a matter of time before something like this [] happens.

Returning to their roots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33016568)

Just one of many reasons I will not visit Australia.

It seems they are returning to their roots as a prison colony...

Re:Returning to their roots... (1)

deniable (76198) | about 4 years ago | (#33017952)

That obviously explains Atkinson in South Australia.

Thought my eyes were going bad pdf (1)

cvtan (752695) | about 4 years ago | (#33016586)

Well that certainly fills in the blanks...

What can be done about this - in 3 weeks? (1)

Monolith1 (1481423) | about 4 years ago | (#33016656)

We have a federal election less than one month away. Unfortunately, I think it's mainly the minority of geeks and nerds which fear it and understand these plans. How do we mobilise the rest of a generally apathetic nation in 3 weeks before a federal election to rally against this?

Re:What can be done about this - in 3 weeks? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 years ago | (#33016930)

The question is which direction do we go? Do we want the liberals in? They might be worse.

Re:What can be done about this - in 3 weeks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017770)

Definitely DON'T vote for Labor or Liberal! We have to teach these assholes that if you fuck with us you get voted out. If we keep voting for the 2 parties we just encourage this behavior.

I believe the Greens are against filtering. There is also the Sex Party and ... have the Pirate Party got their act together yet?

We need more diversity in parliament.

Why isn't this part of the election debate? (1)

king_grumpy (1685560) | about 4 years ago | (#33016680)

It's sad, and rather scary, that the major points of *debate* in the election so far have been immigration and carbon taxes. Perhaps the 150 randoms looking after carbon taxes can do a double shift and handle the great firewall.

FInding out the rest of it... (1)

cypherdtraitor (1448243) | about 4 years ago | (#33017182)

Depending on the style of printer, it may be possible to forensically recover the didacted information.
While I was unable to find any such studies in the 30 seconds I spent googling this, I have a few thoughts. If this was printed on a laser printer, then a charge was used to layer toner fluid on the paper. Then, a black marker was used to over-write the toner. The toner would have shielded the paper from the black ink. Therefore, a high resolution scan of the image should reveal that the reverse side of the paper is slightly lighter on the inside of the printing of each character where the marker was used.
Of course, we would need an original, not a digital or even a copy.

Voted into office? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33017266)

Excuse me for not following current events "down under", but weren't these thugs voted into office by the Australian people? What the HECK is going on? Internet Censorship List and now this... any Ozzies here that can explain this? I'm assuming there's going to be a landslide victory for the opposition come next elections...

Record of customer communication #30J4RFG239449P (1)

theNAM666 (179776) | about 4 years ago | (#33017780)


Don't use so many caps. Itg's like yelkling.
Don't use so makny caps. Irert's like yelling.
Don'tr use so many caps. It's lire yelling.
Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition.
Don't use rso many caps. Itgrr's like yeleling.
Don't use so many caps. It's like yerrelling.
Don't use sor many caps. It's like yelling.
Don't use so many caps. It's like yelling.
Don't use so many caps. It's liker yelling.
Don'tr use so many caps. It's like yelling.
Don't use so many caps. It's like yelling.

Don't use sof many caps. It's like yelling.
Don't use so many caps. It's like yelling.
Don't use so maffrny caps. It's like yelling.
Don't use so many caps. It's like yelfling.

Democracy (2, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 4 years ago | (#33017892)

If this wording of the answer does not enrage the majority of Australians regardless of their position on the issue, and won't affect their vote, then they do not really deserve democracy.

It reminds me of the HST ruckus here in BC. The petition. (First step to referendum) to repeal it got widespread backing from many people of all political backgrounds, including those in favor of HST - because of the way it was pushed through.

the internet has become fetishised (0, Offtopic)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#33018148)

Yeah! I like to smell its feet [] ..

Who is this guy? It appears he's with the Greens... What the hell is wrong with them to let somebody like this in the party? Looks like the Greens should be tossed into the dustbin with the others.. I never did trust them considering the strange bedfellows they hang with... I sure as hell would never vote for them.. I hope nobody else does.

No problems here, move along people! (0, Troll)

tengeta (1594989) | about 4 years ago | (#33018414)

Don't worry guys, once the "free" government comes to The USA we can experience fun things just like this!
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