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FreeBSD 8.1 Released

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the while-it's-hot dept.

Upgrades 46

hsn and other readers pointed out that FreeBSD 8.1 has been released. "This is the second release from the 8-STABLE branch which improves on the functionality of FreeBSD 8.0 and introduces some new features. Some of the highlights: zfsloader added; zpool version of ZFS subsystem updated to version 14; NFSv4 ACL support in UFS and ZFS; support added to cp(1), find(1), getfacl(1), mv(1), and setfacl(1) utilities; UltraSPARC IV/IV+, SPARC64 V support; SMP support in PowerPC G5; BIND 9.6.2-P2..." ... and much more. See the release notes summary and the details.

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I Love FreeBSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33016970)

Why no comments? Not even a frist psot? Whats wrong with the world?

Re:I Love FreeBSD (2, Funny)

xoundmind (932373) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017016)

Why? The kids are not alright.

Re:I Love FreeBSD (1)

amentajo (1199437) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017030)

I don't know what you're talking about. I see one on my screen, and it even says "frist psot" in it.

Re:I Love FreeBSD (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33017406)

Wow, the jokes in this thread sure suck.

Re:I Love FreeBSD (2, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018502)

I don't want a joke. I want OS support for the Elan framebuffers in my R4000 Indigo and R4400 Indigo 2.

That's nice, but... (3, Interesting)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017054)

It's nice to see they've got zfsloader in there by default, now. It was otherwise a huge pain to get ZFS to be booted from - you basically had to build your own installer and set up everything manually. Quite the time consuming task.

Unfortunately, I don't see any mention of these changes:

* "improved stability for ZFS". Sure, it supports pool version 14! What the fuck does that mean, really, when "bare minimum 4GB RAM" was a requirement for 8.0 to get it even remotely stable (some tuning required)? I don't care if it runs for months without locking the system. It's still locking the system.
* "decreased memory use for ZFS". It's not even doing deduplication in 8.0 RELEASE yet using 3GB of RAM at an idle load is not unheard of.
* Why so quiet on the USB front? Nice to see they got ralink devices added, but that does little for the fact that USB is almost completely unreliable in 8.x. Just take a look at the USB mailing list - problem after problem that's the same (USB has many, many timing/boot/detection issues in 8.x), with the seeming consensus being "we don't care, it works for me".

FreeBSD needs to fix those things or forever be relegated to amateur hour. Seems "quality things that work" gets relegated to "superior design". That's all fine and good, but if you've got to rape an ape just to get the damn thing to work as designed due to implementation flaws, it's essentially worthless.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

mat128 (735121) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017198)

I agree, and besides all this stuff they need to provide an easy way to install it using a PXE server. They have a bugged bootloader (BTX?) since 7.2 so I still have to use 7.1's loader to deploy any new versions. On top of that, I have to uncompress/untar/cpio a bunch of archive just to get access to the actual installer config file... and do the whole process again to get a disk image bootable from PXE.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

Freultwah (739055) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017548)

What the fuck does that mean, really, when "bare minimum 4GB RAM" was a requirement for 8.0 to get it even remotely stable (some tuning required)?

I really do not know what kind of orifice you are pulling it from. I set 8.0 up with ZFS on a machine with 3 gigs of RAM, did not tune anything and there were zilch problems with neither stability nor speed. Yes, it is "works for me", but hell, it does work for me. In many configurations and with hardware over three years old. And single core processors.

* "decreased memory use for ZFS". It's not even doing deduplication in 8.0 RELEASE yet using 3GB of RAM at an idle load is not unheard of.

For some odd reason then it's been working for me in my home server with 2 gigs of RAM (single core, DDR), no tuning and with extra to spare for daemons and no problems with speed that could be attributed to the file system. It even worked with a single gigabyte, but I must admit that it was a lot on the slow side. In another machine I have 4 gigs of RAM, no tuning, prefetch enabled and I've yet to see memory usage top three gigs under load. Maybe there's not enough load. With prefetch off, memory usage is not even worth mentioning. I think I have been deploying some other FreeBSD.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018472)

In the last 3 months, I've had 3 opensolaris related FreeBSD system crashes on multiple systems. I've had two OOM related system locks. Yes, this is on 8.0 RELEASE, on very common 3-year-old to current hardware from SuperMicro, with controllers, etc. specifically picked due to their "good support" under FreeBSD. It's the case both with and without special "tuning", and the system load is light (ie multicore systems with a load average around/under .5). The hardware has all been verified to be error-free.

Sure, maybe it's me - maybe I'm not massaging it correctly. However, I've never seen such systemic issues in a non-beta OS before.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#33023402)

That's interesting... we got some new SuperMicro machines to test to sell at work.

God help you if you try to enable the RAID controller. It won't ever boot again until you wipe the CMOS.

Perhaps SMC isn't as reliable as you might think they are.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

eventhorizon5 (533026) | more than 4 years ago | (#33023692)

I work for an ISP and we were running FreeBSD on our critical (and extremely active) recursive DNS servers and also route master machines (edge-level BGP/OSPF management routers, which are at the level right below the Cisco peer routers - those machines run Quagga). The first issues we started having had to do with random system lockups on the primary recursive DNS server (it appeared like the OS would stop the interrupt controller - pressing the power button on the machine would briefly reactivate the interrupts for about a second probably due to it trying to initiate a sleep mode). This happened on FreeBSD 7.1 and above. I went around in the FreeBSD mailing lists and saw a large discussion about it on there, with some die-hard FreeBSD fans fuming at the kernel devs since this kind of issue went completely unnoticed (was fixed in 8.0). Then I assumed that 8.0 would be fine, but we were building new route master machines with 8.0, and Quagga was having massive issues with the kernel (I tried building the latest Quagga code which didn't solve the issue) - so we had the choice of either dropping back to 7.0 for those machines or just jumping ship to Linux (Debian specifically, which is what most of our machines run anyway). We went with Linux (still have a few FreeBSD machines though), and all our problems disappeared. The machines in question were IBM x335 and x336 1U rackmount machines.

FreeBSD used to be the standard for high-performance networking systems, but they really need to get their act together and actually field-test things before deploying production code. The code isn't simply being used on some random person's toy box, it's being used in datacenters on critical infrastructure. Situations like this will make people immediately jump ship.

-eventhorizon

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33030232)

The machines in question were IBM x335 and x336 1U rackmount machines.

That is really, really damn interesting. We've got two machines that are very similar (x335) running FreeBSD still - one is at 6.2 (runs our management VLAN services - SNMP trap, log analysis, etc.). It's got a low CPU/RAM utilization, yet it has locked up numerous times - sometimes as often as twice a day, but usually somewhere in the 2-3 month range. I've been unable to trace the problem to anything, though it's my suspicion that it may be the single channel SATA controller. It very well may be, but at this point I'm hesitant to rule out FreeBSD as the (at least partial) culprit on account of what you're saying.

As far as "production code in data centers" I'd say half the problem in this area is ports. It's a huge burden and responsibility to test everything thoroughly for a sysadmin before deploying it, much more so than it is on Linux due to the lack of a shared user base (eg. "I'm using package version xyz that comes with debian release y" vs. some ungodly combination of versions of everything).

Re:That's nice, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33019784)

I have been an advocate for FreeBSD for a long time but I have to give up. I do not want to sound like a troll, but since 5.x forward, FreeBSD has just been disappointments. 8.1 is not even working at all with my intel graphic card. I have been forced to move on to OpenBSD.

Re:That's nice, but... (1)

bdrewery (1317617) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021250)

Deduplication requires even more RAM / CACHE than you could imagine. Don't hold your breath for it.

BSD (1)

alxkit (941262) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017102)

lol. 5th post!

ZFS reliability on 32-bit (2, Interesting)

gravos (912628) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017212)

Anyone know if this release improves ZFS stability on 32-bit machines? even with 2GB of ram i still get occasional kernel panics due to it running out of address space.

Re:ZFS reliability on 32-bit (1)

bdrewery (1317617) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021216)

I've had those problems a lot. I highly doubt the fragmentation issues have been fixed though. Limiting the ARC can help a lot (via /boot/loader.conf). I gave up and moved to 64 bit and haven't had issues since.

Re:ZFS reliability on 32-bit (1)

Phantom Gremlin (161961) | more than 4 years ago | (#33026682)

I'm not a ZFS expert, but IIUC it's simply not possible to have stable production quality ZFS on 32 bit machines. This has nothing to do with FreeBSD, the original Solaris codebase just wasn't designed for it. There are places where the code manipulates 64 bit constructs in what it assumes are atomic operations. That assumption is often invalid on a 32 bit machine. Also the code is written assuming that it has a significant amount of VM to play with.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the FreeBSD port to fix/workaround fundamental design decisions like that. The very first dictum in ZFS Best Practices is: Run ZFS on a system that runs a 64-bit kernel. How much clearer can they make that statement? N.B., repeated for emphasis: this is the very first dictum in ZFS Best Practices.

IIUC it's OK to expect ZFS to run with 2 GB of RAM, just not with a 32-bit kernel.

Go FreeBSD! Whooo! (2)

AlexLibman (785653) | more than 4 years ago | (#33017320)

The world's #1 most popular free software operating system!

At least to people not drinking Stalinman's communist kool-aid... All 8 of us...

Seriously, why so few comments on this story?

Re:Go FreeBSD! Whooo! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33017364)

Maybe because it's Saturday evening and people are out doing things more fun than masturbating to a new release of FreeBSD?

Re:Go FreeBSD! Whooo! (1)

OSDever (792851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018482)

Hey, speak for yourself.

Re:Go FreeBSD! Whooo! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33019094)

I was speaking for myself. But, at the same time, I was also at home. And I love FreeBSD. So, what can I say...

You answered your own question. (-1, Troll)

tulare (244053) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018516)

There really are only eight of you. PS: there are enough geeks on here not using FreeBSD to suggest that your initial premise is laughably false.

Who cares? (-1, Troll)

tulare (244053) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018406)

Hours old post, other posts after attracting normal comment volume, this has eleven (11) posts as of this moment. If an update to a shitty, feeble, archaic operating system that only the most devoted antisocial fanbois give a flying fuck about doesn't deserve the "whocares" tag, nothing does.

Re:Who cares? (3, Insightful)

rivaldufus (634820) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018508)

Yeah, Linux will eventually be included on that list for Slashdot, too. Mac fanbois have taken over; the Ubuntists are out.
Pretty soon, a minor Linux kernel update won't make the front page.

Re:Who cares? (1)

tulare (244053) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018536)

Perhaps, although the number of (non-Ubuntu) Linux machines deployed outside of people's parent's basements exceeds fBSD and Ubuntu combined, which is kind of a built-in interest base. My expectation is that most smart people try to stay abreast of trends in the industry they work in ;)

LOL, so speaketh the over indebted leveraged fake (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33019366)

Perhaps, although the number of (non-Ubuntu) Linux machines deployed outside of people's parent's basements exceeds fBSD and Ubuntu combined, which is kind of a built-in interest base. My expectation is that most smart people try to stay abreast of trends in the industry they work in ;) by tulare (244053) writes: on Saturday July 24, @11:21PM (#33018536) Journal

Perhaps the number of Linux machines deployed outside of subprime mortgaged over leveraged homes you shouldn't even BE in, shithead, ought to be taken away from the likes of a shit like yourself, since you really cannot afford it, you arrogant FUCK? My expectation is that most "smart people" like you are nothing more than over indebted, big-talking, bullshit artist FAKES and thieves trying to "keep up with the joneses" and "keep up appearances" and the funniest part is, most of them have less real actual skills than most 6 yr. old's do intellectually!

Re:Who cares? (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#33097358)

What the hell are you talking about? Apple-haters have almost completely taken over the comments section to any Apple article. What a lame attempt at karma-whoring on your part.

Awesome! (0)

zhris (1812446) | more than 4 years ago | (#33018976)

I'd love to try BSD, but they have abysmal support for Broadcom Wireless chips (at least without performing a bunch of voodoo that is way outside my level of expertise). If/ when that ever happens, I'll be all over it.

Re:Awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33019154)

8.1 includes a new driver (bwn) for a bunch of Broadcom USB-based WLAN chips. Not that I've had any success at all with it, of course.

Re:Awesome! (0, Troll)

Pigskin-Referee (1389181) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021732)

It has poor support for virtually every modern chip on the market. I don't think they ever heard of the 'N' wireless protocol.

Re:Awesome! (1)

trasz (758585) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021984)

According to "man -k L1", Attansic L1 is supported by the age(4) driver.

Big problem with ethernet adapter (1)

rhomp2002 (1182917) | more than 4 years ago | (#33019370)

I had a very common ASUS ethernet adapter. When I tried to install FreeBSD to try it out I found that they had no support for this adapter. It was the one that most of the ASUS MB's used at the time. I see they still, 2 years later, do not support this very common adapter. It is an ATTANSIC L1 ethernet adapter and is very common. Until FreeBSD starts opening themselves to the common hardware that is used on many of the MB's then I don't see why I should jump through hoops to use their O/S. I did try DeskBSD on an older computer I had and it worked fairly well but not any better than Linux did and Linux had a lot more supporting applications than the BSD did. Saw no reason to go to BSD over what I could find elsewhere and with more support. Real shame because the basic structure is great but the details that are missing make all the difference. I find that ARCH Linux and Mint Linux give me more with speedier applications than BSD does and still have the protection that Windows does not offer.

Re:Big problem with ethernet adapter (1)

rhomp2002 (1182917) | more than 4 years ago | (#33019374)

Stupido. I have a very common ASUS motherboard, not an ASUS ethernet adapter. Preview is your friend.

Re:Big problem with ethernet adapter (1)

imp (7585) | more than 4 years ago | (#33037440)

I have the ATTANSIC L1 on one of my systems, and it works great on FreeBSD 8.1.

Re:Big problem with ethernet adapter (1)

rhomp2002 (1182917) | more than 4 years ago | (#33037610)

Wouldn't even hook up with the Asus MB I had at the time. When I did a little research with the FreeBSD forum I was told that they did not intend to implement it. Same thing with DeskBSD as well. I had the same problem with a couple of Linux distros but when I found a Linux app from ATTANSIC with the code for it the distro creator made up an module to implement it. BSD people wouldn't do that. Consider yourself lucky that your worked. It didn't work with my ASUS MB.

Re:Big problem with ethernet adapter (1)

rhomp2002 (1182917) | more than 4 years ago | (#33037652)

I just took a quick scan of the forum at FreeBSD. I last tried to install version 7.1 and when I got the response from the BSD people dropped the idea. I see that there were enough other people who complained that there was an update to version 7.2 that finally included the ATTANSIC/ATHEROS L1 in the hardware that would be accepted by FreeBSD. The initial release of 7.2 would still not accept the L1 but the update to that release made it work. Maybe I will give it another chance now but I no longer have the computer with the ATTANSIC L1. I have updated to a newer MB (Gigabyte UD2). Maybe BSD will accept that one.

No Drivers - No Java - No Good (-1, Troll)

Pigskin-Referee (1389181) | more than 4 years ago | (#33020008)

FreeBSD is a nice 'hobby' OS; however, it it lacks drivers for virtually all modern devices. There are no drivers for all but a few 'N' protocol wireless cards, and even those drivers are not as fully functional as those available for Windows. They have never gotten Java updated to where it is usable in the latest versions of Firefox either. Its support for SATA drives is somewhat limited. In fact, the number of devices that are not supported by FreeBSD is far larger than the number supported. Amd64 support is still not up to snuff either. Supposedly, they have improved their ACL support. I will have to investigate to see if it is up to the levels of other *.nix systems.

The FreeBSD team appears more interested in bumping its version number every few months than it is in getting its OS fully functional in a modern world. It took years before they even got support for nVidia drivers in 64bit mode. Of all the non Windows operating systems available, I would put FreeBSD at the bottom of the list.

Re:No Drivers - No Java - No Good (1)

bdrewery (1317617) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021178)

Excuse me, but that troll you just pasted is over ten years old. I've perused my logs and found myself referencing said troll over two hundred times. Thank you.

Re:No Drivers - No Java - No Good (0, Flamebait)

Pigskin-Referee (1389181) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021720)

Excuse me, but that troll you just pasted is over ten years old. I've perused my logs and found myself referencing said troll over two hundred times. Thank you.

What are you referring to?

Re:No Drivers - No Java - No Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33024310)

This one, perhaps? Honestly I was a little surprised nobody had posted it yet.

It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming close on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a cockeyed miracle could save *BSD from its fate at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Re:No Drivers - No Java - No Good (1)

trasz (758585) | more than 4 years ago | (#33021960)

Linux is a nice 'hobby' OS; however, its hardware support sucks for virtually all modern devices. It's 2010, and Linux still has problems with basic functionality like suspend or graphics acceleration support on many machines. ;-> Of course, you're missing the fact that desktop is not the whole world. Lack of 802.11n support for a few devices doesn't really matter when you're building a core router, NAS, or a http server. (Also, your trolling would be better if it didn't contain claims that are easy to verify as false. In particular, the point about ACLs is bad, because it's easy to check that e.g. Linux doesn't support standard NFSv4 ACLs at all. ;-)

Re:No Drivers - No Java - No Good (0, Troll)

Pigskin-Referee (1389181) | more than 4 years ago | (#33022340)

If anyone here is a troll, it is you. I simply stated my own personal experience with FreeBSD. I never made any claims regarding non Windows systems and ACL support. My statement was 100% accurate.

Re:No Drivers - No Java - No Good (1)

trasz (758585) | more than 4 years ago | (#33022488)

Yeah, especially the "hobby" part, and the "up to ve level of other unix systems", which is false, as explained above. ;->

And all 23 FreeBSD users rejoiced! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33020756)

Seriously, no one cares about FreeBSD any more.

Dearest Jim... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33021972)

You know the deal - it's gone. May its body be preserved for all eternity.

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