Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Open Sarcasm Fighting Copyrighted Punctuation

samzenpus posted about 4 years ago | from the free-language dept.

Idle 155

pinkushun writes "SarcMark is a copyrighted punctuation mark, that claims 'It's time that sarcasm is treated equally!' Pretty damn cheeky while they're charging for their software, which only inserts their punctuation through a hotkey. Open Sarcasm is destroying SarcMark by advocating a new punctuation mark (not displaying here properly — alt+U0161) as the new open and free sarcasm symbol. Either way, this will be one interesting turnout. With bad unicode support across the web, displaying the characters properly might be an issue. PS Left out sarcastic end sentence as Slashdot doesn't display the U0161 character."

cancel ×

155 comments

The 21st century (5, Funny)

elocinanna (1640479) | about 4 years ago | (#33030050)

We've come a long way, baby.

Meta(meta)[m e t a] (3, Informative)

fyngyrz (762201) | about 4 years ago | (#33030298)

Left out sarcastic end sentence as Slashdot doesn't display the U0161 character."

Slashdot is written in Perl, a language that tends to self-obfuscate within minutes of having been written. Consequently, updating the code base for trivial things like correct display of posted text is highly problematic. Also, even if the Perl implementation was written in non-standard (that is, comprehensible) fashion, to quote Rob Malda in a recent letter to me, "Unfortunately there really isn't any engineering time available to make any changes these days"

Re:Meta(meta)[m e t a] (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030430)

...to quote Rob Malda in a recent letter to me, "Unfortunately there really isn't any engineering time available to make any changes these days"

What the hell are they so busy doing? Clearly not editing article submissions.

Re:Meta(meta)[m e t a] (4, Funny)

fyngyrz (762201) | about 4 years ago | (#33030734)

What the hell are they so busy doing? Clearly not editing article submissions.

It is a careful balance between collecting ad revenue and ignoring the shortcomings of the moderation mechanism.

Only the most modern of management techniques have been used to arrive at this complex and deeply nuanced operating strategy; only here, at the heart of the technical community, can we find an implementation that so perfectly reflects (in the sense of reflection about the opposite axis) the technical nature of its users.

Re:Meta(meta)[m e t a] (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 4 years ago | (#33031902)

I actually think the moderation system is fantastic on /.

browsing at 1 is usually decent, 0 bearable, and 2+ quite good.

considering what I see at -1 it appears to quickly filter out the real bad, and you're left with schmucks talking.

I don't like the new meta-mod where you can't simply agree or disagree though.

Re:Meta(meta)[m e t a] (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | about 4 years ago | (#33030776)

Slashdot is written in Perl, a language that tends to self-obfuscate within minutes of having been written.

I sighed.

I nodded.

I shook my head.

I put my palm to my face.

If only it weren't true.

Re:The 21st century (1)

smartr (1035324) | about 4 years ago | (#33030552)

FIRST alt+U0161

Re:The 21st century (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | about 4 years ago | (#33031650)

Is this another another Jibe at koda ?

Sorry filtered so [U0161]koda ....

I'd be sarcastic here... (4, Funny)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | about 4 years ago | (#33030062)

... but the thread would probably implode at this point.

pfft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33031402)

I'm sure THAT'S gonna happen.

Support for the character: (1)

phyrexianshaw.ca (1265320) | about 4 years ago | (#33030072)

it's a character in a font. it should be displayed by your local font choice as long as HTML is passing the correct code for the character.

/. is not responsible for HTML standards, or the font's installed on your local computer alas. it's up to your computer whether it's displayed or not.

Re:Support for the character: (1)

sonnejw0 (1114901) | about 4 years ago | (#33030174)

What happened to the tilde (~), I thought that was pretty universal as sarcasm.
But if you can't figure out when it's sarcasm, then the problems with you, not the comment.

Re:Support for the character: (1)

somersault (912633) | about 4 years ago | (#33030564)

Some people just seem to use that to signal a word that's pronounced in an elongated way, but not necessarily sarcasm..

Re:Support for the character: (3, Funny)

thomasdz (178114) | about 4 years ago | (#33030594)

I always used the tilde to indicate "moustache" or "backwards 'S' taking a nap"
since those two concepts rarely entered my on-line conversations, I rarely used the tilde.
But, hey! yeah... I could use the tilde to indicate sarcasm! What a ~great~ idea!

Re:Support for the character: (3, Insightful)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | about 4 years ago | (#33030696)

I suppose it could happen; first initial "S", last name "Arcasm".

cd ~
pwd
/home/sarcasm

Re:Support for the character: (1)

shish (588640) | about 4 years ago | (#33031466)

What happened to the tilde (~), I thought that was pretty universal as sarcasm.

In fansubbing it's used to indicate a long vowel, eg waaaaaaaaaaaah --> waah~

I'm personally in the habit of using it to end sentences where a full stop seems too sudden, and ellipsis are too emo~

I've only ever seen it used for sarcasm a couple of times, both on slashdot, both by people with "~ = sarcasm" in their sigs to explain it, so I have my doubts about the universality of it

Re:Support for the character: (2, Informative)

marcansoft (727665) | about 4 years ago | (#33030544)

Slashdot filters out just about all useful Unicode for no good reason other than laziness. People were abusing control characters, but they were too lazy to make a proper blacklist and instead opted for an almost nonexistent whitelist.

Re:Support for the character: (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | about 4 years ago | (#33030828)

Indeed, many omissions make no ¢s.

Re:Support for the character: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33031616)

/. is not responsible for HTML standards, or the font's installed on your local computer alas.

Can someone explain to me how people who care so passionately about the tiniest details of a programming language, mark-up language or whatever are so often completely incompetent with human language. Do you really value communication with computers above people?

My comment is destroying story topic (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 4 years ago | (#33030082)

by advocating a new story topic (not displaying here properly - alt-ctrl-del) as the new form of grammar and coherence. Either way, this will be one interesting turnout. With bad grammar and coherence across the web, advocating a new story topic properly might be an issue. PS Left out new story topic end sentence as Slashdot doesn't display the alt-ctrl-del character.

Re:My comment is destroying story topic (3, Funny)

jeffmeden (135043) | about 4 years ago | (#33030272)

The special offtopic character is (not displaying here properly, alt-F4) used when you want to steer the conversation toward a disastrous end, a.k.a. trolling. PS I left out the troll I had prepared for the end of this post because Slashdot doesn't display the alt-F4 character.

2 marks needed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030112)

If the sarcastic sentence was a question would you need to use a question mark then the sarcasm mark?

Humor Mark (1)

TheCybernator (996224) | about 4 years ago | (#33030128)

Time to come up with marks for Humor, and mood and patent them. Wait...perhaps Chinese already has it!

Re:Humor Mark (0, Redundant)

Abstrackt (609015) | about 4 years ago | (#33030592)

Time to come up with marks for Humor, and mood and patent them. Wait...perhaps Chinese already has it!

So does the Internet: emoticons. For example, "=)" means happy, "=(" means unhappy, ">=(" means angry, "=p" is sticking out his tongue, mocking you, laughing at you, haunting your dreams! "=^_^=" is a soft kitty, warm kitty, little ball of fur. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Pfft. (5, Funny)

phillymjs (234426) | about 4 years ago | (#33030134)

Oh, a sarcasm punctuation mark. That's a real useful invention!

Re:Pfft. (1)

Anarki2004 (1652007) | about 4 years ago | (#33030228)

Are you kidding me? This baby is right off the charts, mm-hai

Re:Pfft. (2, Informative)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | about 4 years ago | (#33030314)

The British already have one. E.g.: Oh, you're so right, I guess I should be more concerned with Bart's safety than covering my own butt(!). And maybe I'm talking like this, because I can't stop(!). HELP ME LISA(!). I HAVE SERIOUS MENTAL PROBLEMS(!).

Re:Pfft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030652)

I don't know which was chicken and which was egg, but this has been the standard way of defining sarcasm on British subtitles (Ceefax/Teletext) for as long as I can remember.

Songs are denoted by # ... #

Re:Pfft. (1)

TexVex (669445) | about 4 years ago | (#33030582)

We clearly need a new symbol to indicate irony as well.

Re:Pfft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33033500)

Fe

lameness filter filler:
Tweeters on the West Coast are considerably happier than those on the East Coast, and Twitter users are happiest on Sunday mornings and unhappiest on Thursday evenings.

Re:Pfft. (2, Funny)

Enigma23 (460910) | about 4 years ago | (#33033634)

We clearly need a new symbol to indicate irony as well.

We've already got one of those - Fe

Re:Pfft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33032140)

you sir, need Irony punctuation [wikipedia.org]

Next time, try writing (3, Insightful)

Palestrina (715471) | about 4 years ago | (#33030150)

If you need a punctuation mark to express sarcasm then you are not doing it right.

It is like a laugh track or a drum rimshot to indicate a joke's punchline. It only accompanies the worst forms of humor.

I'm reminded of Laurence Olivier's remark to Dustin Hoffman, who had subjected himself to sleep deprivation to prepare himself for his role in "Marathon Man". Hoffman came onto the set, looking like hell, and explained what he did to prepare. Olivier said, "Dear chap, next time try acting." No special punctuation mark needed.

Re:Next time, try writing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030252)

If you need a punctuation mark to express sarcasm then you are not doing it right.

Fail.

Spoken sarcasm is easily recognized unless your listener is a slashdotter, or other form of idiot.

When expressed in a written form sarcasm is not so easily recognized so a punctuation mark is a good idea. Note the use of "/sarc" and "///" tags.

Re:Next time, try writing (1)

Palestrina (715471) | about 4 years ago | (#33030360)

Well, duh. Writing is not the same as speaking. There are lot of things that are lacking in writing: accents, intonation, gesture, body language, etc. Should we encode them all? Should we write in the International Phonetic Alphabet with notated choreography and stage directions?

Of course not. Writing is different than speaking, and we adapt our use of language to the medium. One is not worse than the other. They are merely different. But trying to pretend they are two forms of the same thing... this is not the path to sanity.

Re:Next time, try writing (1, Informative)

cduffy (652) | about 4 years ago | (#33030530)

Well, duh. Writing is not the same as speaking. There are lot of things that are lacking in writing: accents, intonation, gesture, body language, etc. Should we encode them all? Should we write in the International Phonetic Alphabet with notated choreography and stage directions?

.aipe'a It's actually not such a bad idea.

.e'u Lojban contains a syntax for assembling "attitudinals" -- interjections which describe someone's emotional state (with a syntax allowing complex composition -- indicating strength, negation, combining different states, and the like) which can be inserted at any point in a stream of text. .ji'a They're not just written, but spoken as well -- useful for phone conversations or other situations where body language is unavailable.

.je'upe'i Pipe dream or not, I would be thrilled to see their adoption.

Re:Next time, try writing (1)

Rary (566291) | about 4 years ago | (#33030686)

There are lot of things that are lacking in writing: accents, intonation, gesture, body language, etc. Should we encode them all?

Should we encode none of them?

Your examples (accents, intonation, gesture, body language) generally serve to add to what's being said. Sometimes, however, they are essential parts of the message being communicated, and therefore need to be encoded in writing. The question mark is one example. When speaking, we use inflection to communicate the fact that our sentence is a question. In writing, we replace the customary period with a question mark.

Sarcasm is generally the use of words to mean something other than what they literally mean, and its use is often communicated by the tone of voice. This makes it a good candidate for encoding.

Although it has never been widely accepted, according to Wikipedia, the use of punctuation to denote sarcasm dates as far back as the 1500s.

Re:Next time, try writing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030758)

Well, duh. Writing is not the same as speaking.

And that's why we use punctuation when writing.
You're not suggesting that punctuation is set in stone from now until the end of time, are you?
If you are suggesting that then should we also eliminate alternate spelling of words, forbid the expansion of vocabulary, and mandate that no new languages may arise?

Re:Next time, try writing (2, Insightful)

Palestrina (715471) | about 4 years ago | (#33031422)

I think the general trend over the last 100 years has been to reduce the variety of punctuation marks in use, not increase them. The semi-colon is seldom seen these days, at least not used correctly. It is being replaced by the comma in many cases. Ellipsis is now generally replaced by periods. Hyphens, em- and en-dash are now all conflated, except by typographers and the more fastidious editors. So the general trend is to reduce the number of punctuation marks in use.

Generally, if it is not on their keyboard, users don't use it.

I see no reason to perpetuate the vanity of the Artist Formally Known as Prince for adding new glyphs just to be trendy.

And contrary to freezing language, I'd suggest it should follow practice, but until I actually see sarcastic Ethiopians on Slashdot with their special character, I suggest this is all just idle mischief.

Re:Next time, try writing (1)

mevets (322601) | about 4 years ago | (#33030946)

But it isn't the sarcasm that failed. It is generally quite a bit funnier when someone, or even better a thundering herd, takes it seriously.
Similarly, when an earnest statement is interpreted as humour. The answer is not to lower the bar. Much better to beat the clueless mercilessly with it.

No, it's absolutely essential (1)

Estanislao Martnez (203477) | about 4 years ago | (#33030744)

It's a matter of who your audience is [adequacy.org] .

Re:No, it's absolutely essential (2, Insightful)

Palestrina (715471) | about 4 years ago | (#33031154)

Hard to argue that it is essential if we've had 2500 years of written Indo-European languages and we managed to express sarcasm just fine without requiring another character. If we lacked something essential I assume the Gauls would have added it 1800 years ago. They were far more sarcastic than us moderns.

Note I have nothing against a parenthetical expression or other notation using existing characters. This might be good for expressing a variety of things, like "This sentence is funny" or "This phrase is brilliant" or "This rhymes but only if you pronounce it funny". The later would work very well with Gilbert and Sullivan operettas.

A good analogy would be to any of the existing editorial notes we can make, such as "sic" to indicate that something is copied literally, including errors. We didn't need a new character for that, did we?

Re:Next time, try writing (3, Insightful)

impaledsunset (1337701) | about 4 years ago | (#33031042)

You're wrong.

Within a spoken conversation sarcasm is usually accompanied by a change in facial expressions or in the voice. It doesn't make it worse, it only makes it better. A sarcastic mark could stand for that, just like an exclamation mark is used when you'd raise your voice, or an emoticon gets used for other emotions. Now, it will probably be abused, just like emoticons and exclamation marks do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111 :PPPPPP, but nevertheless it serves a purpose. Online sarcasm seems too harsh without a sarcastic mark.

One problem is that there are different expressions that go with sarcasm, not one, both friendly and unfriendly, but written conversation doesn't try to match spoken exactly. They are different forms of conversations with their own intricacies. Adding another mark that allows you to add more to those intricacies is only good.

Re:Next time, try writing (4, Insightful)

Palestrina (715471) | about 4 years ago | (#33031982)

But ditto for other things as well. I can ask a normal question, a rhetorical question, a negative question, a hesitant question, a imperative question, a leading question, a disbelieving question, even a sarcastic question. Should we have a glyph for each of them? Really? Are you kidding? What makes sarcasm so special compared to every other language nuance that it requires its own glyph?

Re:Next time, try writing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33033314)

If you need a punctuation mark to express sarcasm then you are not doing it right.

Exactly what I thought. This whole thing is such a non-issue and so stupid to waste even one line text about it. Cheers for helping morons understand the rest of the world. Well, at least now we'll be able to put sarcasm marks at the wrong places on purpose, so we can laugh a two things at the same time: the real sarcasm intent, and the morons who just follow the signs.
 

That's crazy! (1)

VincenzoRomano (881055) | about 4 years ago | (#33030292)

Emoticons are not enough. Well, it can happen.
Introducing a new symbol for "something new" can also happen.
But copyrighting it is something I'm not prepared to.

Debian? (1)

vlm (69642) | about 4 years ago | (#33030330)

I can't see the open alternative website because its slashdotted, but the sarcmark is obvious based on the Debian logo. I'm thinking that's not a coincidence?

Please make up your minds... (1)

John Hasler (414242) | about 4 years ago | (#33030362)

...as to whether this thing claims to be protected by patent (not patentable) or copyright (only the exact image would be protected, if that).

Actually, it appears that they are claiming that it is a registered trademark. In that case you are completely free to use it as punctuation.

! already works (1)

MrDoh! (71235) | about 4 years ago | (#33030374)

Can we all agree to use the exclamation point at the beginning of a sentence to denote sarcasm?
A question mark at the end makes sense as it's right at the end, if you read the main part in your 'mind voice', raising tone at the end makes sense.
For sarcasm, you need to know at the beginning of the sentence, so the punctuation needs to go there.
! would work I think

!Oh, that's such a good idea.

!Have we forgotten our pants today?

See? Compatible for other punctuation too.

Re:! already works (1)

Asic Eng (193332) | about 4 years ago | (#33030844)

Can we all agree to use the exclamation point at the beginning of a sentence to denote sarcasm?

No.

Re:! already works (1)

treeves (963993) | about 4 years ago | (#33033576)

!Yeah, that's an especially great solution for Spanish speaking people!

Re:! already works (2, Funny)

$pace6host (865145) | about 4 years ago | (#33031312)

I prefer letting each individual display sarcasm on their screen as they prefer. That's why I enclose my sarcasm in <P> and </P> tags. Aren't those the sarcasm indicators?

Wait. (1)

ShadowDragoonFTW (1527831) | about 4 years ago | (#33030376)

Wait. Wait wait wait. Alt0161 is the upside-down exclamation mark that is already used commonly in Spanish sentence structure. WTF are you guys pulling?!

Re:Wait. (1)

Luke Wilson (1626541) | about 4 years ago | (#33031266)

According to TFA, it is already used in Ethiopia to denote sarcasm, and can be distinguished from the Spanish usage of the same character by its location at the end of a sentence rather than the beginning.

Re:Wait. (1)

treeves (963993) | about 4 years ago | (#33033650)

Ethiopia: first known people (?), first coffee, only African nation not to be colonized by Europeans, and now this! How cool.

Just a simple dodge for libel (1)

FreeUser (11483) | about 4 years ago | (#33030436)

As others have noted, if you need special punctuation for sarcasm, you aren't doing it right.

On the other hand, what a great way to dodge accusations of libel alt+U0161

President (Bush | Obama) has sex with baby chickens every Sunday while listening to old 8-tracks of Jerry Fallwell alt+U0161

PROSECUTION: You have deceived millions of your fellow Americans into believing their (former president | president) engages in sexual relations with assorted poultry while taking communion.

DEFENSE: No I didn't. It's obvious I didn't mean what I said, because I put a alt+U0161 on the end of the sentence.

JUDGE: Case dismissed.

Now replace with a plausible accusation (I have proof that June is sleeping with Joe's husband), yet defamatory, aimed at a colleague or local figure, rather than a national politician. Rinse, lather, and repeat for an easy recipe to defame with no legal liability. After all, we all know punctuation speaks louder than words, alt+U0161

Re:Just a simple dodge for libel (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | about 4 years ago | (#33031618)

Problems -

Does not Display on Slashdot ...

Is not easy to type ...

Either makes most Finns and eastern Europeans seem constantly sarcastic, or stops them using it altogether because it's a letter not a punctuation mark

Please use a real punctuation mark .... and not one with an already well established meaning ....

"Slashdot doesn't display the U+0161 character" (4, Funny)

AdmiralXyz (1378985) | about 4 years ago | (#33030444)

Quelle surprise. Does Slashdot display any Unicode characters correctly, apart from English letters and punctuation? I think I saw some madman use the British pound symbol once, but that was Dark Magic and he was burned at the stake.

Re:"Slashdot doesn't display the U+0161 character" (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030952)

Posting annon to keep fire away

¥,€,£

Re:"Slashdot doesn't display the U+0161 character" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33031942)

óÓ

Re:"Slashdot doesn't display the U+0161 character" (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | about 4 years ago | (#33033596)

As a HTML reference, and not as UTF encoded unicode character. You can see it in the source. They might have hacked together a fix so I'll give it a try:

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Re:"Slashdot doesn't display the U+0161 character" (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | about 4 years ago | (#33033666)

Well, what do ya know. It works *clapclap*

Re:"Slashdot doesn't display the U+0161 character" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33033082)

Quelle surprise. Does Slashdot display any Unicode characters correctly, apart from English letters and punctuation? I think I saw some madman use the British pound symbol once, but that was Dark Magic and he was burned at the stake.

££

WOOSH (1)

OneAhead (1495535) | about 4 years ago | (#33030490)

"Pretty damn cheeky while they're charging for their software, which only inserts their punctuation through a hotkey."

Hint: In many cases, Sarcasm loses its usefulness if there's no ambiguity about it. &irony;

sarcasm tags (1)

2obvious4u (871996) | about 4 years ago | (#33030502)

<sarcasm>I prefer to wrap mine in tags, like bold, italic and underline.</sarcasm>

Re:sarcasm tags (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030702)

I used to, but using /s at the end of your sarcastic comment has become a shorthand way of doing what you suggest.

Re:sarcasm tags (1)

CCarrot (1562079) | about 4 years ago | (#33031934)

Sooo...how does one parse nested sarcasm tags?

Are they additive? (WARNING: sarcasm level increased, please clear the room of children, pets and mother-in-laws)

Are they subtractive? ( <sarcasm>"Sure I want to go to your wedding, after all <sarcasm> you broke my heart, you b&^#$</sarcasm> and it'll be soo much fun to watch you get hammered...</sarcasm>)

Or are they self-nullifying? (Two sarcs make a straight line, three a triangle?)

Inquiring minds want to know...

cc

Why? (1)

Tomahawk (1343) | about 4 years ago | (#33030672)

If sarcasm is done right, as a previous poster mentioned, then it should be obvious, and thus a symbol is not needed.

If the inventor of the sarcasm symbol needs help understand sarcasm, why should the rest of us point it out to him? And, for that matter, why should we pay him for the privilege of point it out to him.

Anyway, there is already a well know symbol that doesn't require any addition to the Unicode standard, nor any addition to any existing fonts. :-p

Easy as that, really!

Reminds me of a joke where an American actually 'got' sarcasm for the first time. It was raining outside, and his non-American friend says 'Isn't the weather just great!'.
The American bloke realises that his buddy just said the exact opposite to what he meant. Wow! What an amazing thing.
He then went on to use this device himself...
The following week in work, a friend closed a filing cabinet on his finger. Our friend, now endowed with his new found sense of sarcasm, pounced on the opportunity to put this into practise...
"Isn't the weather great!", says he.

*sigh*

Re:Why? (1)

interval1066 (668936) | about 4 years ago | (#33031626)

"Reminds me of a joke where an American actually 'got' sarcasm for the first time."

Whatever. I was watching "As time goes by" (britcom starring Judy Dench) with some friends. Jean and Lionel took a trip to Hollywood to shop a story to a production company. A production assistant (obviously an American character played by a British actor) came on the set and asked where Lionel was (he was in the toilet.) When Dench replied he was taking a leak the "American" looked toward the ceiling and covering his head. Everyone of my friends laughed and one of them said "The British must be idiots!"
A bit harsh, perhaps but to accuse an American of not getting sarcasm is a little strange to me. Maybe it seems that way since we've moved on from sarcasm to irony.

Trogdor ? (3, Funny)

Ruvim (889012) | about 4 years ago | (#33030722)

I thought this character is already reserved for Trogdor!!! [homestarrunner.com]

Percontation point (1)

charles xavier (1861908) | about 4 years ago | (#33030778)

What's wrong with the good old percontation point? [wikipedia.org]

Overloading Unicode (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33030792)

Please please please please please, dot NOT overload Unicode by assigning a punctuation to U+0161. This is the code for a small s with caron, and is necessary for writing Czech, Estonian, Finnish, Slovak, and other languages. If you want to support a new character, put it in the Private Use Areas. There's over 130,000 code points that are set aside, just for this sort of thing. It's like those idiots trying to support the new Indian Rupee symbol, but end up calling in to question the interpretation of all sorts of data.

Here's the rules:

1. Every assigned code point has a defined meaning. If you are trying to do ANYTHING that means that code point should be interpreted any other way, it is WRONG!

2. Reserved (ie, Unassigned) code points absolutely can NOT be used for information interchange. Reserved code points are two meetings away from being assigned code points, and using them is just as bad as using a code point wrong.

3. There is a place where you can play around. It's called the Private Use Areas. They are three blocks: U+E000-U+F8FF, U+F0000-U+FFFFD, and U+100000=U+10FFFD. You can literally do whatever the heck you want there, no questions asked.

preposterous (1)

jlebrech (810586) | about 4 years ago | (#33030806)

I`m sic of this!

Character in question (1)

Ruvim (889012) | about 4 years ago | (#33030874)

A sarcasm punctuation mark? Really? (1)

RevWaldo (1186281) | about 4 years ago | (#33030894)

That's SOOOO interesting. I mean, we REALLLLLY need help in pointing out when someone's being sarcastic. That'll be SOOOO helpful. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how useful that will be. These people REALLY are geniuses, and I TOTALLY mean that.

.

Re:A sarcasm punctuation mark? Really? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33031204)

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but I don't agree that they are geniuses.

Subjunctive (1)

ninly (988438) | about 4 years ago | (#33031022)

Oh, yeah, sure... it's time that sarcasm BE treated equally...

What it looks like (3, Informative)

rpresser (610529) | about 4 years ago | (#33031134)

U0161 is Latin Small Letter S With Caron [www.eki.ee]

Re:What it looks like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33031712)

Typical slashdot fail. They meant U+00A1 [www.eki.ee] which is the inverted exclamation mark (0xA1 = 161). Or were you being sarcastic?

Re:What it looks like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33032146)

That isn't it, actually. The summary got it wrong.
http://opensarcasm.org/use-opensarcasm/ shows.. uh.. character 161 in base 10.
I guess it's 00A1?
& plus #161; displays it.

Re:What it looks like (2, Informative)

gv250 (897841) | about 4 years ago | (#33032168)

U0161 is Latin Small Letter S With Caron

While that may be true, TFA says that the open sarcasm mark is U+00A1, an upside-down exclamation point, to be used at the end of a sentence.

Graphically indistinguishable from U+00A1 () Temherte Slaqî differs in semantic use in Ethiopia. Temherte Slaqî will come at the end of a sentence (vs at the beginning in Spanish use) and is used to indicate an unreal phrase, often sarcastical in editorial cartoons. Temherte Slaqî is also important in children’s literature and in poetic use.

Re:What it looks like (1)

rpresser (610529) | about 4 years ago | (#33032982)

Sigh. At the time I posted, TFA was slashdotted and unavailable, so I couldn't see it.

Bizarre (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33031172)

U+0161 is a real character, used in many languages as a normal character. This is English-speaking imperialism at its worst: can you imagine if someone proposed to use "x" as the sarcasm character since it's not in all Latin languages? At the same time, I can't see why a patent could or would be granted for this, although I'm sure it could be copyrighted.

About the Ethiopian Sarcasm Mark Temherte Slaq (2, Interesting)

surveyork (1505897) | about 4 years ago | (#33031258)

At opensarcasm.org they mention the Ethiopian sarcasm mark, the Temherte Slaqî. It's pretty much indistinguishable from the Spanish initial exclamation mark. I'd show it here, but Slashdot doesn't support anything beyond basic ASCII, apparently.

Wait a moment... (1)

CoffeeDog (1774202) | about 4 years ago | (#33031434)

What happened to the Open Sarcasm [opensarcasm.org] website? I can't open it so I have no idea how to add that sarcasm mark to the end of this question asking why the site is down!

I really care about this (1)

istartedi (132515) | about 4 years ago | (#33031596)

I really care about this. It's probably the most important thing I've read this year.

See? No special punctuation needed. Next!

Why do we need this symbol, anyway? (1)

epp_b (944299) | about 4 years ago | (#33031648)

It seems like a fairly nonsensical symbol to me. If it's meaning is not immediately obvious and you actually have to explain what it means, it is doomed to failure. Oh, yeah, and actually have to pay to download it and assume that whomever you're speaking to has paid and downloaded it as well. Just imagine the back-and-forth conversion with your mom/dad/grandma/grandpa/[enter technically-illiterate relative or acquaintance of your choice here] ...

You: oh, yeah, stabbed him in the ribs alt+U0161
Recipient: you did what????? pls tell me if ur serius im gonna to call the police in a minte!!!!!!!
You: No, no, no, didn't you see that sarcasm symbol at the end?
Recip: wat r u taking about? i see a upsidedon exlamation mark. isnt that like spanish or smth?
You: No, it's a new symbol indicates "sarcasm". You have to download it from [website]. It's only two bucks.
Recip: you mean im supposd to PAY for one text thing? i dont even now what that is isnt that the at thing that you put in a email or maybe its a backwards 6. besides i bet its a virus or smth. neway thats insane!!!
You: No, it's supposed to... never mind. No, I didn't stab him, let's pretend this conversation never happened. See you at Christmas.

Yeah, I can totally see that catching on...

(see what I did there?)

Besides, we already have a symbol for sarcasm. The winky face, in variations of ;) ;-) and ;~), is pretty universally accepted and understood to indicate joking, kidding or sarcasm; and, even then, if you can't write in a manner where your sarcasm is not obvious, maybe you should just improve your writing skills or only carry conversions by text with people who have compression skills greater than those of a rock.

Re:Why do we need this symbol, anyway? (1)

epp_b (944299) | about 4 years ago | (#33031734)

Yes, I'm aware of my own grammatical errors in that comment. As a fellow grammar nazi, I humbly request that you gloss over them, please.

U+0161 already exists (1)

molo (94384) | about 4 years ago | (#33031838)

http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0100.pdf [unicode.org]

"Small Latin Letter S with Caron"
"Czech, Estonian, Finnish, Slovak, and many other languages."

-molo

Re:U+0161 already exists (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33032782)

If you'd have read the open sarcasm manifesto, you'd know that it's actually U+00A1. the alt+0161 is only the code you'd use in Windoze to type the character

A Profoundly Stupid Thing (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | about 4 years ago | (#33031950)

The beauty of sarcasm lies in its inherent ambiguity and its delayed-action effect.

A sarcasm symbol is crude and ugly.

Is it April 1?

Wrong character code? (1)

wherethewoolzewasnt (1787534) | about 4 years ago | (#33032122)

The summary states that the character code for the open sarcasm mark is U+0161, but the opensarcasm.org site says that it should be U+00A1, which is graphically identical to the Spanish inverted exclamation point but apparently has a historic Ethiopic precedent as a sarcasm marker. Incedentally, when I first read the summary I opened up the Character Viewer applet in osx to see what the mark looked like. Since I misread the summary, I first looked up U+1610, which looks almost exactly like the proprietary bullshit SarcMark, only lacking the interior dot. The shape of the spiral is almost identical though, and U+1612 has the same spiral shape and does have a dot, though the dot is placed slightly differently than in the SuckMark. If a drop-in replacement for the proprietary mark is ever needed I'd nominate U+1612.

Unicode support (1)

VGR (467274) | about 4 years ago | (#33032470)

With bad unicode support across the web, displaying the characters properly might be an issue.

To what "bad unicode support" is the submitter referring? The Web has excellent Unicode support. Every browser supports just about every BMP Unicode character I can throw at it (except IE in Windows XP, but even that does at least a fair job).

Suggested Solution to Copyrighted Punctuation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33033140)

So how about using [!] as the mark of sarcastic comments? I won't try to copyright this. You are now free to be sarcastic without the need of special software.

Hmmm (1)

The AtomicPunk (450829) | about 4 years ago | (#33033496)

Sarcasm mark - that's real useful.

We don't need a sarcasm punctuation mark (1)

Weaselmancer (533834) | about 4 years ago | (#33033562)

If you can't read something and know it's sarcasm, well...stupidity should be painful. Just ask all those news organizations who keep quoting The Onion stories as real news. [wikipedia.org]

You wouldn't want that kind of fun to stop, would you? That's one of the best parts of sarcasm. Pitching it over the heads of stupid people and watching them not get it. There is an element of sadism to really good sarcasm, and a punctuation mark to make it obvious would ruin that.

Support Michigan Jobs! (1)

Chysn (898420) | about 4 years ago | (#33033564)

Sarcasm, Inc., is based in Washington, Michigan, a bit north of Detroit. I, for one, will be paying the buck ninety-nine to support the Michigan economy. We're at over 13% unemployment, and we never recovered from losing our manufacturing economy. And now, my great state has once again started building something: punctuation! If you support open punctuation, you're destroying Michigan jobs!

Oh, I just visited their website, and there's no Linux version of the SarcMark software.

Fuck you guys, SarcMark.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...