Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

KDE SC 4.7 May Use OpenGL 3 For Compositing

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the that's-software-compilation-to-you dept.

KDE 187

An anonymous reader writes "KDE SC 4.5 is about to be released and KDE SC 4.6 is being discussed. However, Martin Graesslin has revealed some details about what they are planning for KDE 4.7. According to Martin's blog post, they are looking at OpenGL 3.0 to provide the compositing effects in KDE SC 4.7. OpenGL 3.0 provides support for frame buffer objects, hardware instancing, vertex array objects, and sRGB framebuffers."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

first post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076604)

I may use your mouth as a toilet.

GPL: Intellectual Theft (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076730)

Hello,

As a consultant for several large companies, I'd always done my work on
Windows. Recently however, a top online investment firm asked us to do
some work using Linux. The concept of having access to source code was
very appealing to us, as we'd be able to modify the kernel to meet our
exacting standards which we're unable to do with Microsoft's products.

Although we met several technical challenges along the way
(specifically, Linux's lack of Token Ring support and the fact that we
were unable to defrag its ext2 file system), all in all the process
went smoothly. Everyone was very pleased with Linux, and we were
considering using it for a great deal of future internal projects.

So you can imagine our surprise when we were informed by a lawyer that
we would be required to publish our source code for others to use. It
was brought to our attention that Linux is copyrighted under something
called the GPL, or the Gnu Protective License. Part of this license
states that any changes to the kernel are to be made freely available.
Unfortunately for us, this meant that the great deal of time and money
we spent "touching up" Linux to work for this investment firm would
now be available at no cost to our competitors.

Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any
products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to
its source code released. This was simply unacceptable.

Although we had planned for no one outside of this company to ever
use, let alone see the source code, we were now put in a difficult
position. We could either give away our hard work, or come up with
another solution. Although it was tough to do, there really was no
option: We had to rewrite the code, from scratch, for Windows 2000.

I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive
with Microsoft is this GPL. Its draconian requirements virtually
guarantee that no business will ever be able to use it. After my
experience with Linux, I won't be recommending it to any of my
associates. I may reconsider if Linux switches its license to
something a little more fair, such as Microsoft's "Shared Source".
Until then its attempts to socialize the software market will insure
it remains only a bit player.

Thank you for your time.

Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076752)

Troll alert... otherwise your lawyer got it majorly wrong and should be replaced

Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft (0, Redundant)

lengau (817416) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076974)

Definitely a troll, considering the token ring and defrag comments.

Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft (0, Offtopic)

Danious (202113) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077646)

Rofl, that's one of the more useless trolls Ive seen in a while :-)

Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077744)

Apparently it's working ... you responded.

And for those older machines? (0, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076732)

I assume that for those that have older machines and are stuck with pure software implementations of openGL kde will now become unusable.

Re:And for those older machines? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076816)

or you just don't turn on the optional compositing in the first place? this is a new feature created and intended for newer machines.

Re:And for those older machines? (1, Insightful)

tenco (773732) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077268)

My Pineview Netbook is a new machine, you insensitive clod. And it composites just fine. But no OpenGL 3.0. Though, that's exactly a move that would fit the KDE projects policy regarding users.

Re:And for those older machines? (3, Informative)

Danious (202113) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077494)

No, then you just carry on using OpenGL 1.1 or xrender

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

agm (467017) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077768)

Or use Compiz Fusion, which I find faster and much more feature rich than the KWin compositing.

Re:And for those older machines? (2, Informative)

chowdahhead (1618447) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077600)

If such a change happened, I'd imagine there would be alternate rendering paths, just as you can fall back to xrender right now; old hardware likely won't be left out.

Re:And for those older machines? (4, Interesting)

overshoot (39700) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076850)

I assume that for those that have older machines and are stuck with pure software implementations of openGL kde will now become unusable.

No, you can turn off compositing. Unlike akonadi, which already makes KDE unusable.

Re:And for those older machines? (5, Interesting)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077610)

I can tell you that 4.5rc2 automagically loads up akonadi and all of its fluff/garbage/helpers if you have a clock plasmoid. Without option to turn it off.
Akonadi and Nepomuk are simply jokes. Enforcing them on the user, specially considering how useless both services are, is a really bad idea©.
Nepomuk can be disabled easily, not so much for Akonadi. You literally need to cheat it by giving empty path strings, or no clock.
I'm a major KDE advocate, but those two services get on my nerves way too much, specially because they are rather hefty for what they do (for me, nothing at all, for others, very limited usage).

Rant mode ON:
KDE seems exceedingly dependent on itself right now. And integration efforts (with popular apps out of KDE) are pretty much non-existent or unknown even among devs (I discovered after a friendly rant about the current "closed" state of things, that Krunner now does index Firefox bookmarks. The person who corrected me learned it by pure chance it seems, as no "user friendly media" (getting deeeeeeeeeeeep into mailing lists and all the bulk of svn commits is not user friendly, it costs more than mere minutes to check all that) reported on it at all).

I don't know who is to blame but whoever is responsible for this, is not helping the already damaged (by 4.0) reputation of KDE. Half-baked and/or mandatory apps are not helping. Neither does the silly "KDE SC" gimmick.

I can only think something in the management chain is broken, leading to absurd/rushed/experimental decisions pulled off. Either that or the exceeding majority of the 6-month release cycles is translation/bugfixing. As new features talked about during the release of "KDE 4.X" are implemented in "KDE 4.X+1" in the same state shown during the 4.X release (Look at tiled windows in the 4.5 branch. It's there, but...)
Rant mode OFF

Sorry, I really needed to put that up for discussion. Whenever Akonadi is mentioned I go berserk as I am reminded of stuff like it being a requisite for the standard clock.
The worst is that I am an enthusiastic KDE user and I follow development closely, trying betas and reporting bugs. I don't feel "betrayed" or anything like that, but some things are too annoying/habit breaking/RAM eating. Krunner, a Quicksilver/Kupfer-like launcher, can't be disabled and I was told by KDE people that it governs over logout functions (WHY THE LAUNCHER? why can't I just have my alternative of choice without option to take it out or disable it?).

Well, at least the project is dynamic and a good fix/decision changes for better can happen eventually.

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077842)

Nepomuk can be disabled easily

I haven't really figure out what it's good for. When I log in it balloons me with a message that Nepomuk couldn't find redland and that my data isn't available. To fix this, a mailing list post said that I'd need some kind of soprano tool but that doesn't really work most of the time. I still have no idea really what these are, I'd just like a dot-release upgrade to succeed. I hack on stuff, but I don't want to hack on everything.

I hope KDE4 gains resiliency after it's feature complete. I still think they're doing more right than GNOME, though, and their architecture looks great on paper.

Re:And for those older machines? (3, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077848)

I would have to agree about Akonadi. I recently did an install of Arch Linux, and used KDE for about a week before it started annoying me more than Windows 7 does. I removed KDE and just went back to Gnome. At least there I can strip out all of the stuff I don't want to use.

Ah, yes, akonadi (4, Insightful)

overshoot (39700) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078214)

Sorry, I really needed to put that up for discussion. Whenever Akonadi is mentioned I go berserk as I am reminded of stuff like it being a requisite for the standard clock.

To truly hate akonadi, you need to be logging in with $HOME on an nfs mount. And shutting down the box from time to time.

What happens is that KDE issues telinit 6 without waiting for akonadi and mysqld to terminate, which means that your nfs mount is still active at shutdown, so when the system forces the unmount the database is not coherent. Thus you get the dreaded "akonadi could not start" error on next login. Well, that's easy enough to solve by just whiffing $HOME/.local/share/akonadi -- as long as you don't have anything useful stored in there.

Which the KDE team is making harder to do all the time. Good thing the system backs up that akonadi database on a regular basis.

Oh, wait ...

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

iamwahoo2 (594922) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078226)

You have made a great set of observations and I wish that KDE mgmt would give this a read.

Re:And for those older machines? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33078302)

You have made a great set of observations and I wish that KDE mgmt would give this a read.

What KDE management? Aside from a release manager ( who manages the release process not the code or anything else) there isn't any sort of management.

Re:And for those older machines? (4, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078630)

Well said. I agree completely. If you haven't already, you should check out one of Aaron Seigo's posts from earlier this year on his blog:

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html [blogspot.com]

He attempts to justify and defend the thorough integration of neopomuk and akonadi with KDE4 in his post and the subsequent comments. He mostly fails.

In my opinion Aaron Seigo needs to go. He seems like a really nice guy and all, but he still defends the release strategy of KDE4.0 (and this despite being one of the lead devs of the -at the time- completely bug-ridden and barely functional plasma), and seems to always be at the forefront of KDE4's questionable future plans. They've reached feature parity(?) with 3.5.X. Now they need to work on stability and speed. Stability and speed. Stability and speed. The obsession with social networking integration is stupid and shortsighted. The SC naming scheme is lame. And almost as many users are now annoyed by neopomuk and akonadi as they are by that damn cashew.

Re:And for those older machines? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33078796)

+1 to you.

Aaron Seigo is a dictator, the guy rejects patches w/o concensus at all and all the rest of the pussies kde developers are afraid of confront him.

The guy just need to go.

At some point you have to update (0)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076970)

You cannot expect new software to work on old hardware forever. So if you have a system with really old hardware, well then you are going to have to stick with older versions of the software. This is just the way of things.

Re:At some point you have to update (0, Flamebait)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077424)

I am the customer, they need to cater to my needs, not their wants.

Re:At some point you have to update (0, Offtopic)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077474)

So get a refund.

And Booth was a traitor who was upset about his side losing the "War of Southern Treason".

Re:At some point you have to update (-1, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077576)

Or Lincoln was. It all depends on what side of the mason-dixon line you were on. But regardless, you dont have a clue what the true meaning of the statement was, so you failed the test. ( yes, it was a test )

Re:At some point you have to update (2, Funny)

Danious (202113) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077514)

Funny, I don't recall you ever having paid me anything

Re:At some point you have to update (0, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077612)

Since when is payment a requirement of being a customer? Hint: Its not.

Re:At some point you have to update (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077640)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/customer [reference.com]

I can see you LOVE to play semantics games (the BS about Lincoln and your "test"), but you're getting customer mixed up with user.

BTW, Booth was a traitor. Period. End of story. Take your test and shove it.

Re:At some point you have to update (2, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077904)

No, you're not a customer. If you were, you would know that KDE falls back to no compositing when there is no HW acceleration available. You're just a whiner on an internet message board.

Re:At some point you have to update (0, Redundant)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078022)

No, I have been a user of KDE since pre 1.x and as a loyal CUSTOMER I'm not pleased with how its getting progressively bloated with each new version and am now demanding speed and efficiency instead of useless eyecandy.

Re:At some point you have to update (2, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078056)

You're a user, not a customer. There is a difference. Unless you know some place that sold you KDE, and in that case you got ripped off, because you can download it right from your distro's repository like the rest of us users.

Re:At some point you have to update (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078090)

So, how is OpenGL 3.0 more bloated than 1.x? How is it slower?

Re:At some point you have to update (2, Interesting)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077678)

You cannot expect new software to work on old hardware forever.

Why not? Serious question. There are some companies and government agencies out there that still use 1960s mainframes. This idea that we should code only for new hardware is only appropriate for a certain washington based software company whose profits depend on making people buy entirely new software suites every time they upgrade their hardware.

There's not as much profit in selling a minor software upgrade that works on an older computer compared with selling a full new software version that works only on a newer computer. By deliberately making newer software unusable on old hardware, customers are forced to upgrade their hardware, and incidentally have to buy a new bundled Windows OS, which then forces them to upgrade all the otheir software that they use as well. It's a mug's game.

There's no reason why open source should follow that model. It's free, and it's intended to *help* users make the most of what they have, not just grab the most of their money. Moreover, making software run on older and different hardware is a great way for developers to find bugs, and thereby improves the quality of the code. And that means that other developers will have more confidence to reuse it for their own projects.

Open source should have a 50+ year outlook. That's how the real world works. Look around you, how many buildings, roads, bridges, companies, laws etc, are 50 years old? How would you live if you had an arbitrary rule that you couldn't enter a building or cross a bridge or drive in a car built before the year 2000, and could only do business exclusively with companies founded after 2000, etc?

Because people want new features (2, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077860)

As computers get more powerful, things become feasible that were not in the past. People want those features. Problem is, making software that uses them doesn't work with older systems.

That is just life. Now as for your example with mainframes, in that case someone chooses to pay for support for a system. They cost a ton to maintain. Also, you do not, in fact, get new software, just support on what you have. If you own an IBM/390, as we do, you don't get to run the new version of zOS on it. You are stuck with old software. Supported software, but old software.

Nowhere did I see anything that said support for old KDE would stop, just htat new KDE may need hardware to do composition. I fail to see the problem here.

Re:At some point you have to update (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078328)

I very much doubt there's anyone seriously using a 1960's mainframe. Using a mainframe that's compatible? Sure.

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077116)

Will the software implementations of OpenGL 3 be any slower than the version they're using now?

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

fandingo (1541045) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077362)

Or you could have RTFA and read that older systems will gracefully fall back to the slower implementations. The main purpose of using new OpenGL systems is performance. There's no reason why the slower methods can't be used.

Furthermore, it's also acknowledged that the free drivers won't be supporting OpenGL for another year, at least,

Surprise, there are other people thinking about backwards compatibility than you.

Re:And for those older machines? (0, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077456)

IF i have to RTFA then what value is a summary? Or Slashdot at all? The entire point is to aggregate news so you don't have to run off and read every single story out there at its original source.

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077758)

IF i have to RTFA then what value is a summary? Or Slashdot at all? The entire point is to aggregate news so you don't have to run off and read every single story out there at its original source.

Blaming /. because you're both lazy and wrong is... well, lazy. And wrong.

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077866)

It's pretty amazing seeing someone actually openly whine about having to RTFA. Apparently that would slow down on the amount of trolling one can accomplish.

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

novafluxx (1089189) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077940)

Why are you using a 15 year old PC anyway?

Re:And for those older machines? (2, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078088)

Because i dont subscribe to upgrading just because there is new and shiny available. The old functions perfectly well, and its appalling that people code like they do today, rendering perfectably good hardware simi-functional.

Re:And for those older machines? (1)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078324)

Then don't upgrade! No one is forcing you to install software that is incompatible with your old hardware...

bloat ware (2, Insightful)

WarJolt (990309) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076740)

I love eye candy, as long as there is an easy way to turn it off. I don't need my linux box booting as slow as my windows.

Re:bloat ware (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076776)

I stopped using KDE 6 years ago cause it was overbloated with crap eyecandy

make a desktop that is easy to use (ie doesnt move shit around just cause my mouse isnt focused on it) and doesnt make the newest and the best machines crawl then maybe I will look at KDE again

Re:bloat ware (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077028)

What?!

I use KDE 4 almost exclusively on a two year old machine with the desktop effects enabled and my machine does not crawl. The 3D effects of KDE 4 used to be very inefficient, but that was fixed sometime in the last year. Up until that point, I just used the simple solution of turning them off. If you don't have a relatively decent video card, then just turn the effects off. It isn't hard. KDE 3 had no built in 3D effects and certainly never made even my underpowered laptop, of the time, crawl.

Desktop effects in KDE 4 are easily turned off in a matter of seconds. They're highly customizable otherwise.

Not liking KDE is one thing, but making up random complaints isn't a valid reason.

Re:bloat ware (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077162)

I did the simple thing and didnt use KDE, without its bloatcandy its a clunky to use desktop systems, and the only people I see running it are wanna be 1337 kids

Re:bloat ware (1)

Spewns (1599743) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077386)

I use KDE 4 almost exclusively on a two year old machine with the desktop effects enabled and my machine does not crawl.

A two year old machine isn't even close to old, if that's what you were trying to imply.

Re:bloat ware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077644)

[...] and doesnt make the newest and the best machines crawl [...]

I was addressing that.

Re:bloat ware (1)

richardablitt (897338) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076814)

It seems to be off by default in the KDE distributions I've tried. If not, it's just a matter of unchecking 'enable desktop effects' from the system settings.

Re:bloat ware (4, Informative)

Erikderzweite (1146485) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077224)

Eye candy in Linux DEs can make work a good deal smoother -- resources are better shared between CPU and GPU. Plus there are some very useful effects -- expo and scale plugins (both in Kwin and compiz). Transparency can come handy too. Granted, desktop cube is there just for show as there are wobbly windows, fire or water effects.

And advanced effects don't really add that much to boot time -- I still manage to stay within 30 seconds on a rather old hardware, even with P4-class PC.

Re:bloat ware (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077284)

my amd64 (p4 class) boots a gnome desktop in less than 10, KDE takes over 30 and studders like crazy (with a 512mb geforce 8800gt)

not sticking that on my main machine! puff doesnt help when your draggin ass

Re:bloat ware (1)

zwede (1478355) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077432)

Then I'd say there's something wrong with your system. I have a $30 video card (NVidia Geforce 210) and the desktop effects work fantastic.

Re:bloat ware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077912)

1) show me where I can get a 210 for 30$ flat

2) its an AGP system with DDR ram, world O difference in performance

3) its just now coming up on 4 years old, it runs fallout3 and GTA4 but gets chuggy whenever one goes hunting for the durn close button that hides away

Re:bloat ware (1)

zwede (1478355) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078490)

(1) How about for $29.99 here:

[url]http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A3822431&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=27530&lid=627063[/url]

I bought mine a while back from newegg for $35 incl shipping.

(2) Before this computer I had an Athlon64 3000 (single core) with an ATI X800 GPU. Effects worked great on that rig also.

(3) Not sure which close button you're referring to?

Re:bloat ware (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077952)

"I don't need my linux box booting as slow as my windows."

Next generation User interfaces will need to be 3D eventually for some applications, check out taggalaxy or thebrain. Thebrain especially would benefit from decent hybridization of 2D and 3D user interfaces.

http://www.taggalaxy.com/ [taggalaxy.com]

http://www.thebrain.com/ [thebrain.com]

KDE4 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076774)

KDE4 is still used by anybody? It has been a huge mess from the start. KDE 4.2+ shouldv'e been KDE 4.0. Having a dozen major updated before the environment is even barely usable is not good engineering. It fucking sucks, KDE is dead to me until at least 2-3 positive stories emerge. Hasn't happened yet.

Interesting (0, Troll)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076818)

I recently took a long break from Linux et al., and this is exactly what people were writing about GNOME when last I checked.

KDE was it, and GNOME was designed for idiots, so only idiots used it.

The winds of change

Re:Interesting (4, Interesting)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076930)

More like the winds of stupidity. GNOME is still designed for idiots, and the KDE developers decided that being a rock solid DE with a good OLE model was less important than having cool looking visual effects and trendy desktop applets.

Re:Interesting (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077588)

Ever have a power outage while in the KDE? Good luck getting the DE back with your old preferences. That whole "integrated" aspect is a bitch to recover from - one thing goes wrong, and it's a slow death of cascading issues with everything else that's intertwined. Don't get me wrong, I've been a die-hard KDE user for about 8 years, and would have recommended it in a heartbeat, but it has really become a monster - trying to troubleshoot it is like trying to troubleshoot a Windows box, now. I took KDE 4.something for a quick spin not long ago, and couldn't believe how slow it had become. I've migrated to XFCE-4.1, and in many ways, it feels like KDE used to feel. I still miss Konqueror for file management, but am getting my head around Thunar. Everything else works just as well as the KDE without all that psychotic overhead, plus you can run those "needed" KDE apps in XFCE as well.

Re:Interesting (3, Insightful)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078354)

I've migrated to XFCE-4.1, and in many ways, it feels like KDE used to feel

Ah, yes, the good old days of KDE, back when it had exactly five options that could be configured, and the only way to modify the menu was by hacking an XML file.

Funnily enough I recently made the reverse migration. Xfce served me well for a while, but every single recent version has replaced something that worked fine with a rewritten version that has fewer features and/or simply doesn't work properly at all. KDE meanwhile is very pleasant to use, runs perfectly fast even on my underpowered netbook, and is the only mainstream Linux desktop environment that actually bothers to support widescreen monitors properly by implementing usable vertical panels.

Re:Interesting (0)

ion.simon.c (1183967) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078470)

Ever have a power outage while in the KDE? Good luck getting the DE back with your old preferences.

A) The loss of your preferences files is an issue with your filesystem, not KDE.
B) KDE 4.x is rock solid for me, despite multiple intentional power outages *and* running it all on btrfs.

Re:Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077836)

It appears that many of those idiots get mod points of /. (or are just too young?)

Re:KDE4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077050)

http://www.h-online.com/open/features/KDE-SC-4-4-Fresh-breeze-for-KDE-926340.html
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3865126/KDE-Review-KDE-44-Comes-in-from-the-Cold.htm
http://www.internetling.com/2010/02/17/kde-4-4-review-screenshot-tour-and-kde-4-0-comparison/

first page on my google search for reviews of the initial 4.4 release. the rest were also positive, but remained ballanced by pointing out one or two things they still wanted to see improved. fair enough, balance in writing is good, and f/oss writers tend to apply it in buckets.

if i'd gone thorugh more of the results pages i bet there would be even more such positive reviews.

so i guess it's time for you to try it again.

Re:KDE4 (1)

mseidl (828824) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077324)

I am using KDE4, but I am probably going to go back to fluxbox on my next machine I am building.

Re:KDE4 (4, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077984)

Oh, shut it. OS X 10.0 was barely beta quality as well, and somehow people stopped complaining when it started becoming usable, even though the upgrade to 10.2 cost money. Same with Windows Vista (6.0) --> Win7 (6.1). With KDE4, you were even warned not to use 4.0. But you still had to run off and use it, didn't you?

Someone please explain (2)

Lord Byron II (671689) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076790)

For the ignorant, please explain what KDE currently uses for composting? I know on my machine it's hardware accelerated and DirectX isn't available on Linux. Doesn't that mean, by default, that they used OpenGL?

XRender and OpenGL 2.1 (4, Informative)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076884)

KDE can use XRender and/or OpenGL 2.1.

Re:Someone please explain (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076958)

Aerated plastic tubs and earthworms.

Re:Someone please explain (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077384)

Dammit, you beat me to it.

Re: And for those older machines? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076808)

How is that different from any other version of KDE 4? As far as I'm concerned, Kubuntu KDE3.5 Remix is the way to go - more configurable, more stable, and doesn't waste my time with junk eye-candy that gets in the way of actually getting work done. KDE 4 can switch to Open GL, Display PDF, or DirectX 10 for all I care...

Fuck off (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076820)

Since any KDE story is troll central Im trolling and rolling.

So they are using a .7 to avoid having to go through the dramas of another .0 relese, in the day KDE went from 2.2 to 3.0. Just as the Kernel is staying on 2.6 forever.

Now that GNOME 3 is dead until 2011 KDE can piss around adding teh Kool. Admit the truth. Linux will be 20 years old in one more year it still has only 1% desktop usage. It will be eclipsed by iPhone and iPad usage alone soon.

Looks like Linux sure got told. Like real penguins, it waddles aimlessly around in circles while the Windows and Mac penguins are getting all the fish.

Please make it optional (1, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076842)

All the people who really needed translucent bouncing icons already migrated to OSX. But I won't complain too much so long as distros still include fvwm.

Re:Please make it optional (1)

Dragonslicer (991472) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077176)

You mean like how it already it is? I read the summary as "we're going to start using a newer version of OpenGL than we use now for compositing", not "you must have an expensive video card that can handle Crysis to run KDE".

Re:Please make it optional (1)

DMiax (915735) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078054)

And I will not complain about fvwm as long as distros still package KDE. Interesting how things work when software is open, don't you think?

Great (5, Funny)

uncholowapo (1666661) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076862)

More things to brag to my friends about. My e-penis will be massive by the time it comes out.

Re:Great (2, Funny)

ZDRuX (1010435) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078724)

And very nicely rendered, might I add.

Nothing special about this (4, Informative)

xynopsis (224788) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076894)

Just the need to upgrade how Kwin uses OpenGL currently to do rendering. Right now its still using the old OpenGL 1.1 - style rendering (fixed-function rendering pipeline) to a programmable one using vertex and fragment shaders. This way, it'll be easier to port it on embedded devices that uses OpenGL 2.0 by default

Re:Nothing special about this (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077316)

Unfortunately my new netbook with an Intel NM10 chipset can only handle OpenGL 1.5.

OpenGL on Linux (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33076940)

Good luck with that.

People will be blaming KDE for the following issues until they abandon the idea:

1. Half the Intel users will blame KDE for the kernel panics you get when using a Hello World shader with some of the Intel drivers..
2. The other half of the Intel users will blame KDE that they can't use any of the items listed (frame buffer objects, hardware instancing, vertex array objects, and sRGB framebuffers) because they still only support OpenGL 1.5 from 1865..
3. Then there will be the Linux people complaining about it running very slowly because some software driver is used by X11 due to distribution issues with distros and proprietary drivers.
4. The AMD users will probably be using some old buggy version of their driver that has buggy implementation of frame buffer objects or whatever.
5. See #4 but replace AMD with Nvidia.
6. Then there's the army of Linux users that do have a Nvidia or AMD card, but their card is from 1765 and therefore doesn't support OpenGL 3.0.

But besides all that OpenGL 3+ is pretty neat and you can do some fun shaders for your compositing. I wish them the best of luck!

Seems good to me, except (3, Interesting)

lengau (817416) | more than 4 years ago | (#33076948)

This seems like it can only be a good thing. The major place where we're lacking (AFAIK) is in driver support, and having a major software suite such as KDE use OpenGL 3 will help the driver writers manage some of these bugs (the same way Compiz appearing on the scene majorly improved graphics drivers in Linux a few years ago). Perhaps this will also help to push Intel to OpenGL 3 (or 4 - I mean, COME ON!). At the same time, I have some Linux machines that don't have OpenGL 3 support (one has a GeForce 6600), so I really hope they keep functionality with OpenGL 2 for a while (that machine isn't getting upgraded - the next thing I do to it will be to replace it).

Re:Seems good to me, except (1)

Bambi Dee (611786) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077688)

I second that... I have a Geforce 7950 GT; AFAIK, it's the "beefiest" Nvidia card available for my AGP system. It composits just fine (I'm using an RC of KDE 4.5), and I don't think a glitzy desktop is what I'd get a whole new 'puter for.

Wrong title (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077006)

The title is wrong. Is not appropiate to say that KDE SC may use OpenGL 3. Is KWin, the window manager (KDE apps don't call OpenGL directly). KWin can be used in other desktop environments [kdedevelopers.org] , and other window managers can be used in KDE [kdedevelopers.org] .

Fix bugs and add non gui related features (5, Insightful)

slaxative (1867220) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077128)

I don't know that we need any more eye candy in KDE 4. It already has a ridiculous amount of aesthetically pleasing features. How about we squash some existing bugs and add more usability features.

Re:Fix bugs and add non gui related features (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077452)

I don't know that we need any more eye candy in KDE 4.

What does compositing have to do with eye candy, other than making certain kinds very easy to implement? Running a remote app over SSH the old way: change virtual desktops or cover the window and watch it slowly, painfully redraw. Running a remote app over SSH the new way: do whatever you want. When you come back to the window, it will still be exactly as you left it. I suppose not having to wait 15 seconds for a window to redraw could technically be eye candy in that it doesn't directly add new functionality, but since OpenGL desktops are generally faster and less CPU-intensive than their 2D counterparts, I don't think I'll be going back.

Re:Fix bugs and add non gui related features (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077518)

How about we squash some existing bugs and add more usability features.

As an open-source developer I can tell you first hand, squashing bugs is boring and new features are exciting so with my limited free (and unpaid!) time I will be focusing on new features!

Re:Fix bugs and add non gui related features (1)

EarlyMorningHours (1860500) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077556)

As someone who uses KDE everyday, I couldn't agree more. I think bug fixes and increased speed should be the number one priority, second being important features that are still missing entirely. I really want to love KDE, but the Dolphin crashes are getting a little old at this point.

Re:Fix bugs and add non gui related features (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077616)

...not to mention the horrible memory leaks, so nepomuk doesn't grow to using 2.2 GB on my machine and cause it to swap its brains out unless I kill that process.

It's been reported and noticed by plenty of others, they just haven't fixed it. Not to mention the plasma leaks (http://osdir.com/ml/plasma-bugs/2010-05/msg01291.html) and so on.

It's a great environment, my fav, but they need to stop working on shiny things and start making it usable day to day without restarts and killing processes.

Re:Fix bugs and add non gui related features (1)

chowdahhead (1618447) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077636)

This is exactly what 4.5 is apparently addressing.

3.0? (1)

PowerVegetable (725053) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077134)

Wait, wasn't there a story a few days ago about OpenGL 4.1? What's with the 3.0?

Re:3.0? (1)

WaroDaBeast (1211048) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077462)

Well, first off, only fairly recent GPUs support OpenGL 4.x. Secondly — correct me if I'm wrong —, I'm not sure tessellation would be useful to draw a desktop GUI.

Re:3.0? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077486)

3.3 for 'legacy' 8x00+ Nvidia hardware and HD2xxx->HD4xxx hardware
4.1 for Fermi/R800 hardware.

This would obviously take a lot of work, but 4.1 seems the more immediately useful target, followed by 3.3 if 1.5/2.1 can't do the effects needed.

But spending time on a 3.x implementation when most of the hardware running it is likely to be 4.x based on the high end and 2.x on the low end seems silly.

I shit on Linux users (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33077244)

Fucking faggot cunt bitches.

Stop your trolling folks, you're overreacting (5, Informative)

Danious (202113) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077430)

Oh for god sakes people. Kwin provides pluggable back ends for rendering engines for compositing. Currently we support xrender and OpenGL 1.1, soon we will support the next version of OpenGL. Big deal. You can turn compositing on or off, or choose which engine is best for your platform. We will not remove the old engines or force everyone to use compositing. So stop your trolling.

Re:Stop your trolling folks, you're overreacting (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077818)

I recall reading a blog post from one of the KDE architects a year or so ago bemoaning the situation that on linux/xorg KDE nearly always winds up with an non-ideal/inefficient render path. Do you happen to know if that's improved? I think xorg improvements were needed to make it great.

Blame the headline (1)

Atmchicago (555403) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077880)

Had the article said "may add support for OpenGL 3.0" instead of "may use OpenGL 3.0" then it would have been more obvious that they weren't getting rid of the fallbacks.

Even if you did (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33077900)

What would be the big deal? Unless you immediately end all support for an old version when a new one comes out, who cares? Part of the march of technology is that sometimes, old hardware gets deprecated. New software requires features and power not found on it. So you have to use the older versions, or update the hardware. Nothing wrong with this unless it is done in an abrupt or forceful manner.

I've no doubt some day KDE will jettison software rendering. It will be so rare to find a non-accelerated computer (getting harder all the time as it) that it won't be worth including in the new version. However I've also no doubt that you won't go and delete the old versions off the net.

Do not care (3, Interesting)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#33078112)

about OpenGL decorating my windows.

DO care about things like "desktop works" and "can find a fast, professional theme that makes taskbar look like window title bars," neither of which is available with KDE since KDE 4 was released.

Yes, I have recently tried KDE, up to and including KDE 4.4.5 on Fedora. It continues to suck eggs. KDE 3 was professional and powerful. KDE 4 seems to have all the options I don't want, none of the options I actually used, no way to get a unified KDE/GNOME/Plasma theme (hell, you can't even get a unified kwin/plasma theme), ugly artifacting with 3D compositing off, craptacular stability and a distinct inability to remember many settings, dog-slow previews compared to Nautilus, no "compact" mode in Dolphin, either, poor dual-display support that fails to automatically handle them elegantly, and a distinct lack of KDE4-specific, complete alternate icon themes at kde-look.org to do away with the bright colors (I don't want red icons and blue icons both on my desktop at the same time; my desktop PC is not an Icee machine, it's totally unprofessional).

In short, I find KDE 4 totally considerably less usable than GNOME or KDE 3.5 and I'm fairly sure that pouring more development hours into 3D compositing is not going to make it moreso. How about just fixing the artifacting with 2D rendering? That I could actually give a damn about, though it would be one problem solved amongst many, many problems that didn't exist until KDE 4.

Re:Do not care (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33078670)

My mac laptop has none of these problems, neither does my windows desktop. So let me be the devil's advocate here.... why should I switch to Linux?

Re:Do not care (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33078760)

+1, DEAD BANG ON THE MONEY. The KDE developers suffered a collective mental breakdown and completely dropped the ball professionally by not concentrating on simple real usability. Eye candy is INFANTILE and literally USELESS. Looks like the Gnome guys are in the earlyish stages of doing the same thing. Thank God for Xfce.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?