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An iPhone App Store That Apple Doesn't Control

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the mr-jobs-tear-down-that-wall dept.

Iphone 144

waderoush writes "Princeton's Ed Felten has criticized the iPhone and iPad as Disneyland-like 'walled gardens' and says there's no way the iTunes App Store can 'offer the scope and variety of apps that a less controlled environment can provide.' Now there's a central marketplace where developers can sell iPhone-optimized apps without going through Apple's gatekeepers. Launched today, it's called OpenAppMkt and it's a showcase for mobile Web apps — not just the type seen back in 2007-2008, before the advent of the App Store, but also for new games and other apps developed using HTML5/CSS/JavaScript (in some cases, the same apps compiled and sold as native iPhone apps). Xconomy has a behind-the-scenes interview with OpenAppMkt's creators, who say they're not out to compete with the native App Store, but that developers deserve new ways to reach users."

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144 comments

Oh good (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33086768)

other apps developed using HTML5/CSS/JavaScript

So this is completely useless to me, as a developer.

Re:Oh good (0)

segin (883667) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086960)

As a developer, this is completely useful to you. Not stated is the words "including, but not limited to", words that anyone with so much as a sliver of common sense would know are implied, but you have obviously thrown common sense out the window. This new applications store would enable you to push applications that don't conform to the iPhone SDK EULA.

Opera could push Opera Mobile for iPhone (which is not the same as Opera Mini, as Opera Mini is a web proxy + web browser renderer in the cloud + quasi-renderer on the phone that renders the SVG-like output of the browser in the cloud, and Opera Mini doesn't include Presto. Opera Mobile does.)

This means that if your iPhone app is a pile of Perl scripts, you can push it. What iPhone SDK EULA? We don't know what C/C++/Objective-C limitation you're talking about, we'll list your app in our store! If you feel like writing an app for iPhone in C#, you can push it as a .NET exe in PE-COFF format, instead of having to compile it to native code. If you wanted to port Firefox Mobile and have it use it's own JavaScript engine, you can. You could even push a port of Chrome using V8.

Re:Oh good (3, Insightful)

dloose (900754) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087086)

This means that if your iPhone app is a pile of Perl scripts, you can push it. What iPhone SDK EULA? We don't know what C/C++/Objective-C limitation you're talking about, we'll list your app in our store! If you feel like writing an app for iPhone in C#, you can push it as a .NET exe in PE-COFF format, instead of having to compile it to native code. If you wanted to port Firefox Mobile and have it use it's own JavaScript engine, you can. You could even push a port of Chrome using V8.

I'm pretty sure that none of this is true...

Re:Oh good (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087408)

As a developer, this is completely useful to you. Not stated is the words "including, but not limited to", words that anyone with so much as a sliver of common sense would know are implied

No, anyone with common sense would know that there is no "including, but not limited to" implied in this. The iPhone doesn't let you download and run programs from arbitrary websites. This is a well known limitation of the device.

This "app store" sells (bundled?) web applications. As such, there is no executable code.

Re:Oh good (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089134)

Non-jailbroken iPhones don't let you download and run programs from arbitrary websites. This is a well known limitation of the device.

Fixed that for you. Now that jailbreaking is unambiguously legal, markets like this have a chance of going mainstream.

Hi, I'm at black hat (5, Insightful)

yttrstein (891553) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086790)

And I would like to tell you this:

The iPhone App Store never, ever looked so good.

So, we are dying in virus infections (1, Insightful)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089054)

As a Symbian user, I really wonder what kind of evil thing not having a walled kindergarten like Appstore cost to me.

You know; iPhone and iPad app store also means you can't take extra measures such as app firewall/antivirus if you really have critical data or overly concerned about the threats. It is not like Apple will allow something like "F-Secure" for iPhone and obviously, nothing can hook to file IO etc. functions.

Those "black hat" conference guys aren't really black hats. The actual black hats are waiting for the first opportunity to expolit a device which has rich owners, no protection and perfect communication abilities along with mic/camera built in. You are relying on couple of symbol checking mnonkeys for security. If you call it security of course.

Take a look at their so-called apps. (3, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086810)

Sudoku. A flip clock. A picture of a watch. I'm so not impressed.

Re:Take a look at their so-called apps. (4, Funny)

jisatsusha (755173) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087192)

Add in Fart Simulator and Flashlight and you just described half the apps on the official App Store.

Re:Take a look at their so-called apps. (3, Funny)

dbet (1607261) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087576)

For a second I thought you said "Fleshlight" and thinking it might be time to upgrade to a new phone.

Re:Take a look at their so-called apps. (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088102)

Fun fact: the creator of the Fleshlight invented it while his wife was pregnant.

Re:Take a look at their so-called apps. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33089340)

Fucking-A!

Re:Take a look at their so-called apps. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33090198)

Isn't that a bit like closing the barn door when the horse has already fled?

and web pages posing as apps coded in obj-c (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089226)

Lets not forget so-called apps does nothing more than displaying HTML with couple of stock Obj-C UI tricks.

If I have agreed to Steve Ballmer of MS one time, it is the time when he mentioned that fact.

Sad thing is, that joke like claimed "apps" made their way to Symbian too, with stupid Nokia/Symbian shipping a web wizard for them. http://www.oviappwizard.com/web_nokia/signIn.jsp [oviappwizard.com] . So there we have thousands of "apps" (!). Of course, it is the bloggers/users/industry constantly whining about number of apps on Symbian to blame. I bet J2ME/Oracle will do a similar trick soon.

Re:Take a look at their so-called apps. (1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087292)

Hey the fart apps will come soon, don't worry. And then the vuvuzela apps and the dog barking apps and the 10,000 Farmville/Mafia Wars-like apps and THEN their app store will be complete!

Disneyland (4, Insightful)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086828)

Ed Felten has criticized the iPhone and iPad as Disneyland-like 'walled gardens'...

I like Disneyland. It's a ton of fun. I especially enjoy Bats in the Park. Good fun.

Oh. Wait. You were trying to use Disneyland as a way to imply there was something wrong with it? Oh. My bad. Sorry.

On a serious note, however, I think it's very cool that there's now an app store for the web apps that can run on the iPhone. After all, that is one of the features of the device.

Disneyland is fun but (2, Insightful)

sweatyboatman (457800) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086918)

I wouldn't want to live there

Re:Disneyland is fun but (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087184)

Why not?

I mean, assuming the food was free - what more could you want?

Re:Disneyland is fun but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33087248)

For one, I'm not a child trapped in an adult's body, unlike yourself.

Re:Disneyland (0, Offtopic)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087058)

Try going to Disneyland and doing whatever you want to do, rather than what the people in control of the park actually condone.

Re:Disneyland (4, Funny)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087096)

Try going to Disneyland and doing whatever you want to do, rather than what the people in control of the park actually condone.

I tried that, and failed -- but it wasn't Disney that stopped me.

For the sake of brevity, let's just say that the Minnie Mouse character is NOT anatomically correct.

Re:Disneyland (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33087760)

Try going to Disneyland and doing whatever you want to do, rather than what the people in control of the park actually condone.

I tried that, and failed -- but it wasn't Disney that stopped me. For the sake of brevity, let's just say that the Minnie Mouse character is NOT anatomically correct.

Try Disney World. It was 1978, and I was 7, and a little vertically challenged for my age. That's the closest I've been since to being unborn.

Re:Disneyland (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088548)

Don't start spreading rumors like that. Parents only want women inside the full Disney body suits, as opposed to having men in there. They'd rather have only women potentially touching their kids inappropriately.

Re:Disneyland (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088972)

For the sake of brevity, let's just say that the Minnie Mouse character is NOT anatomically correct.

From that I'm going to assume you were charged as a sex offender shortly thereafter...

Re:Disneyland (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089344)

God damn it, I thought you said "Mickey", which changes the nature of the joke... so, yes, in short, *woosh*.

Re:Disneyland (4, Funny)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087178)

Tell me about it. I think I managed to avoid the Cinderella stand-in filing a restraining order, but just barely. I'll be damned if she's getting that shoe back though.

Re:Disneyland (1)

Tsunayoshi (789351) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087702)

We went last summer and in one of the Animal Kingdom locations they had a Pocahontas character come out for picture time...Pocahontas was rather endowed and kept coming close to having a wardrobe malfunction, but she caught it every time...for once i didn't mind waiting in the long line for the photos...

We can't I open a Liquor store in Epcot? (5, Insightful)

Brannon (221550) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087298)

Disney should be forced to allow 3rd parties to do anything they want inside Disneyland. If their customers don't want to go into the porn shops, gun shops, brothels, casinos, and check-cashing stores then they can simply avoid those places while walking down Main St.

It's really just a question of freedom.

Re:We can't I open a Liquor store in Epcot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33089044)

Disney is of course allowed to manage what business and services operate on their property.

The issue here is that we bought the phone. It's our property now and we should be able to manage what is loaded onto it without apple's blessing (in much the same way that you should be able to open whatever legal business you wanted on Main St if you were to purchase Disneyland).

Re:We can't I open a Liquor store in Epcot? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089350)

No, but they do have to let you leave and do those things elsewhere. The Iphone is locked into disneyland.

Re:Disneyland (1)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087658)


Try going to Disneyland and doing whatever you want to do, rather than what the people in control of the park actually condone.

I did that. After a few beers I bent Minnie over and rammed. Did you know they have guys in the Minnie Mouse outfits?

Boy was I embarrassed. Hope the dude's ass is OK.

.

Slashdot: Disneyland shouldn't exist for anyone... (5, Insightful)

Brannon (221550) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087132)

because some people don't want to go there.

Re:Disneyland (0, Offtopic)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087458)

It's funny. Just last night on HBO, I watched a documentary on all the poor kids who live in the cheap motels surrounding Disneyland. They're too poor to actually go into Disneyland, but at least Walt and Co. haven't figured out a way to keep them from watching the fireworks at night. It was kind of sad, really.

Re:Disneyland (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087580)

Oh, here's a link [hbo.com] to info on the documentary. I guess there is poverty everywhere.

Re:Disneyland (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089394)

That is the sort of thing that makes me want to go down there and buy those kids some tickets. Sure it may not be the best use of the money, they probably need other stuff more, but it would be a ton of fun.

Re:Disneyland (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088776)

He was using Disneyland of an example of a completely controlled environment. And it is. Disn'y is the prototypical example of a walled garden.

Something that should be avoided with computer devices.

Re:Disneyland (1)

jeff4747 (256583) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089636)

Something that should be avoided with computer devices.

Something that you want to avoid.

That doesn't mean other people want to avoid it. There are some advantages to walled gardens, and for other people those advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Apple also has a web app gallery... (5, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086832)

Apple has a web app gallery [apple.com] too.

The difference between now and then is, that web apps have access to most of the sensor data on the phone... so there are a lot more ideas that a practical to do as web apps now than there were before.

But still native apps will always give a developer the performance edge and full access to every nook and cranny of the device.

Re:Apple also has a web app gallery... (1)

Rational (1990) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089644)

Yeah, it's amazing that the nerd press are trying to spin this out as some kind of slight on Apple, or thumbing their nose at them or something like that, when it's been a fully supported vector since before the App Store existed.

Re:Apple also has a web app gallery... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33089780)

Do you have access to the bad reception too?

Like I need an army to take out a bunch of guys (0, Offtopic)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086864)

Doug: "It's like 'that guy's coming around the corner?' BOOM, HEADSHOT! It's like 'that other guy's coming around the corner?' BOOM, HEADSHOT! Send yer tank, I got frags! I got frags!"

Jeremy: "So, you're like a one-ranger army coming at me and I'm like SCUD STORM. BOOMBOOMBOOM."

Doug: "OK, Mr. Botanical tank with no balls, that's all I gotta to say. It's like 'Botanical tank, Look at me, no balls, no balls!"
Jeremy: "You wanna see some balls? My Nuke Overlord will show you some balls!"

Ah, such an oldie but a goodie...the TV show was decent, but there was nothin' quite like the early web episodes...

Re:Like I need an army to take out a bunch of guys (0, Offtopic)

damien_kane (519267) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087296)

+1 pwnage, of the pure variety

What do noobs do all day? other than, you know, suck at games?

Re:Like I need an army to take out a bunch of guys (0, Offtopic)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087412)

"You can train a noob, but he'll just be a trained noob like for all time n stuff, rite?"

a little OT but didnt verizon.... (1)

ganjadude (952775) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086886)

have the first "app store" in its vcast offerings? It wasnt really too good, and there was not a lot of content, but i believe that they were actually the first to offer such an idea that apple generally is credited with creating, rather than making viable as it should be. Than again I could be wrong.

Re:a little OT but didnt verizon.... (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087032)

I've been downloading apps|software from an app_store|package_manager for a very long time on linux as well.

Re:a little OT but didnt verizon.... (1)

ganjadude (952775) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087328)

well im specifically speaking of the mobile market. Yes there have been app stores for PCs for years

Paid repositories on Linux? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087482)

But have you been paying for apps on Linux? Are there any popular Linux package managers that support authorization and payment to the repository owner for access to particular packages? Not all paid apps have a Free or even free alternative; I've given examples in another comment [slashdot.org].

Re:Paid repositories on Linux? (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087712)

No I have not, but it wouldn't be hard to do if you really wanted to.

In fact, Steam is on its way to native linux support sometime in the next year.

Re:Paid repositories on Linux? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089504)

Why would I want do?
What does paying have to do with it? I have apps on my phone that are free and FREE software as well. Does that bother you in some way?

As to your previous comment:

Netflix Watch Instantly : Hulu

Adobe Photoshop, : Gimp, I do not need the extra shit

Adobe Flash CS3: there are other ways to do vector animation, better ways Ktoon is one

The rest I am not bother with, as I just noticed your reply to yourself on that thread. You're a fucking troll.

Re:Paid repositories on Linux? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089552)

h4rr4r wrote:

Netflix Watch Instantly : Hulu

Hulu is incompatible with Moonlight.

reply to yourself

A reply to an Anonymous Coward post below your threshold is not a reply to myself. Must I put "Anonymous Coward wrote:" at the top of every reply to an Anonymous Coward post?

Re:Paid repositories on Linux? (0, Offtopic)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#33090228)

Moonlight is worse than flash. Flash is known proprietary, moonlight is a fucking trap.

There does not need to be anything that uses it, I sure as hell do not want it installed. I would rather use a totally DRMed to hell "netflix box" than have moonlight infect linux distros.

Re:a little OT but didnt verizon.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33087500)

Yes... actually, it was called the Get It Now store, and it predated VCAST (EV-DO). I had it on three different phones before getting a smartphone.

Apple's app store is not really very different from Verizon's. The main difference is that Verizon's barrier of entry was higher (but not by much): you had to pay to become a developer and then put your app through carrier testing, which was more rigorous than having some temp at Apple click around and look for naughty words. Most customers were still paying by the minute or KB for internet access, so there were no mobile ad libraries, which combined with the barrier of entry meant there were very few free apps. Also, Apple only has a single platform to deal with, whereas Verizon's store had different selections for every phone.

On the other hand, Get It Now had some advantages. The charges went on your phone bill, not on a separate account. There were a variety of billing options: many apps offered a choice between a one-time charge (say $6) and a subscription (say $2/mo). Most apps had demo versions that offered full functionality for a limited length of time or limited number of uses.

P.S. I've been using the past tense here, but it looks like Get It Now is still up and running.

Pretty sure Palm app stores before that... (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087586)

There were app collections that were essentially app stores for the Palm V. The idea of an app store is not new, I don't know that anyone credits Apple for making it - just for making it very successful.

It's more like Nazi Computering with the banning (0, Troll)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#33086944)

It's more like Nazi Computering with the banning and censorship that is in the istore.

Steve Jobs cumming in your face (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33086988)

There is now an app for that.

Won't install on iPad (3, Informative)

dazedNconfuzed (154242) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087090)

Go to openappmkt.com and click on "Install OpenAppMkt" using an iPad.
Popup sez "To install our app, use the iPhone browser" and offers to text the link to a phone number, same as if attempted on a PC.

Re:Won't install on iPad (0)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087294)

Go back to the page again, you see at the top right hand corner there is a little button with a life ring picture on it, it says "Help"? Try clicking that and reporting the problem there. You might get better results then posting your question here where the developers are unlikely to respond.

Re:Won't install on iPad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33087566)

It's not a "question", it's a statement. The lack of any question marks should have clued you in to that. Clearly "dazed" isn't looking for help, he's alerting /.ers to an issue. If he wanted it resolved, he wouldn't post it here.

Consider the audience (1)

dazedNconfuzed (154242) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087592)

I didn't post a question, I posted a statement - the point of which was to inform /. readers about to do what I did, and to prompt discussion thereof.

Re:Won't install on iPad (1)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087994)

Of course, this app store has been launched by Apple itself, and they will make it almost fail. I say almost, since they will try to keep only a critical mass of users, so no-one will attempt to make yet another app store.

How's that for a conspiracy theory? :P

It's already been done (5, Informative)

MattskEE (925706) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087254)

The Cydia App Store [saurik.com] has also been around for a while, serving the jailbroken iPhone market. Of course there is not a huge number of apps on it, but there are also lots of free apps in the Cydia repository.

Re:It's already been done (4, Informative)

stokessd (89903) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087414)

However, with Cydia there's a huge range of apps that make your phone significantly better. And most importantly they are the sorts of aps that you can't get on the official app-store. Things like frameworks to change the look and feel of your phone (winterboard, and springboard replacements, new keyboards etc). There's better ways to control your phone like SBSettings where all your critical settings are a simple swipe away.

So no, there aren't a lot of apps that could be sold in the app store (because you'd most likely want to sell them in the official app store), but cydia is like having a couple more isles in the store full of the stuff that will make your life better even though it's officially not allowed.

Now, where's my damn jailbreak for the new iPhone?!?

Sheldon

Re:It's already been done (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089534)

If you want that sort of thing, why buy an iPhone?
By buying one you are voting with your dollars against this sort of thing.

Re:It's already been done (1)

catmistake (814204) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087806)

The Cydia App Store [saurik.com] has also been around for a while, serving the jailbroken iPhone market. Of course there is not a huge number of apps on it, but there are also lots of free apps in the Cydia repository.

Yeah, but Cydia is only for users that can handle the truth. Not everyone can bear that burden.

Walled garden discussions (3, Interesting)

Dracos (107777) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087362)

All walled garden discussions begin and end with this: Internet vs AOL.

The outlands will always become more diverse and desirable than the garden. The garden's residents will therefore always abandon it. It is only a matter of time.

Re:Walled garden discussions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33087542)

All walled garden discussions begin and end with this: Internet vs AOL.

The outlands will always become more diverse and desirable than the garden. The garden's residents will therefore always abandon it. It is only a matter of time.

Wow! Bravo! From one example you have divined an eternal and immutable law!

Re:Walled garden discussions (3, Interesting)

Karlt1 (231423) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088100)

The outlands will always become more diverse and desirable than the garden. The garden's residents will therefore always abandon it. It is only a matter of time.

And after almost a decade, /. users are still predicting that iTunes + iPod will fall to a more opened platform.......

Re:Walled garden discussions (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088774)

But it has. I don't know anyone with an MP3 player. It seems crazy to carry one around when our phones play MP3s just as well. I do see people still organizing their collections with itunes, but I don't see many ipods. Phones have leap over mp3 players and unless you really need a feature that only specializing hardware carries then you don't need an mp3 player if you have a smartphone.

Granted, a popular smartphone is the iphone, but the phone market is much more competitive than the mp3 player market. I see all sorts of phones, but really only one type of mp3 player. I think Apple only went in the phone business because they knew the ipod's day was end much quicker than anyone suspected.

I'll argue that things like iphone and kindle are people's first smartphone and ebook readers, in general. As the market ages and as people become more sophisticated with their tastes and needs, the market will explode as "one size fits all" simply doesn't work. We're seeing it now with Android and other competitors. When people see what the EVO or Nook can do compared to what they know they tend to feel a little ripped off.

I'd say that the first generation devices have huge advantages because consumers are naive at first. That doesn't usually last and they'll flee the walled garden in time. See also thin clients, managed services, etc.

Re:Walled garden discussions (2, Insightful)

Karlt1 (231423) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089672)

But it has. I don't know anyone with an MP3 player.

But yet and still Apple sells almost 50 million iPods a year (70%+ market share) and iTunes is the number one music retailer in the world.....

Phones have leap over mp3 players

Where can I buy a phone with 160GB of storage (iPod Classic) or even 64GB of storage of the Touch?

I'd say that the first generation devices have huge advantages because consumers are naive at first. That doesn't usually last and they'll flee the walled garden in time.

So why have most major developers reported abysmal sells in the Android App Market compared to the iPhone App store even though Android market share is at least half that of the iPhone?

Re:Walled garden discussions (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089550)

How?
The itunes market is now mostly DRM free and the iPod plays mp3s. Seems pretty open to me, my gf uses gtkpod to load mp3s on to her nano.

Re:Walled garden discussions (0, Troll)

Karlt1 (231423) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089738)

The itunes market is now mostly DRM free and the iPod plays mp3s

Apple sells music, music videos, audiobooks, e-books, tv shows, movies, and applications through iTunes. Only the music and music videos are DRM free. Nowhere can you buy DRM free mainstream digital media except for music.

Re:Walled garden discussions (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33090172)

"/. users are still predicting that iTunes + iPod will fall to a more opened platform..." /. users are smart. They do not follow the crowd. The /. user will, compared to the average population, usually do the right thing or, as that somewhat well-known saying, right itself when it does wrong. The /. user even dislikes most /. editors and the limitations of the /. site.

The Apple store did lose in a way. To itself. The iTunes store evolved to become more open due to customer complaints. And they got completely owned by the internet radio offerings. I see more non-Apple music playing devices than any other i* device from Apple these days too.

That said, Apple will never see my money as long as they offer such crappy low HD resolution offerings on their videos. The only way they have an expanding market is because of new media offerings, new customers, and the population grows. And it shows they are having increased competition there.

In the meantime, I gladly spend my money elsewhere. For over a decade, I've spent no money on Apple products or services. And I've got lots of disposable income. I used to love Apple products, but these days, they can piss off with their walled crappy ass garden. The only company I hate worse is Sony.

Re:Walled garden discussions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33088902)

Yeah, it's a shame that the iPad can't access the Internet. Apple really would have had a hit if it'd only included a web browser.

Re:Walled garden discussions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33090286)

All walled garden discussions begin and end with this: Internet vs AOL.

The outlands will always become more diverse and desirable than the garden. The garden's residents will therefore always abandon it. It is only a matter of time.

No, walled garden discussions began with walled gardens. And there are still walled gardens, sooo....

Nothing Apple itself hasn't said (3, Insightful)

NameIsDavid (945872) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087402)

The story attempts to suggest that this is a way to get around Apple's walled garden. On the contrary, this is a fully supported system that Apple has promoted many times. They always say there are two ways to develop apps: an open HTML5-based web app method and the curated App store. What's the news here other than showing people the showcase itself?

HTML5 limits (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087590)

They always say there are two ways to develop apps: an open HTML5-based web app method

Can an HTML5-based web application make real-time 3D graphics? (I tried making my own 3D engine in JavaScript with the 2D canvas, but it was fairly slow even on a PC, and there were always cracks between the polygons.) Can an HTML5-based web application ask the user's permission to turn on the camera and microphone? Can an HTML5-based web application run with zero bars and save the user's work?

Re:HTML5 limits (3, Informative)

antibryce (124264) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087762)

google ported quake to html5:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/01/google-html5-quake/ [techcrunch.com]

so to answer your first question: yes.

I'm pretty sure HTML5 can access your camera and mic, although I'm not 100% on that. They can also work when you're offline, using the iPhones built-in caching.

Re:HTML5 limits (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088130)

How well do HTML5 Quake and other WebGL applications work on an iPhone? Are they playable, are they too slow to be playable, or does canvas.getContext("webgl") either return null or throw?

Re:HTML5 limits (1)

Beardydog (716221) | more than 3 years ago | (#33089972)

I've been toodling with it a bit ( http://blott.us/ [blott.us] ). It can save your work to the iPad album ( but can't open it again later ), and it can run and save work completely offline with a sile tweak: store the entire page in a dataUrl, and save the dataUrl as a bookmark.

Ah, history - where are you? (4, Insightful)

vague disclaimer (861154) | more than 3 years ago | (#33087914)

Er,Web Apps were Apple's original vision for iPhone Apps, but everyone whined about them and hence the SKD. Web Apps are fully supported, not a swerve-around.

But still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy adventure.

Re:Ah, history - where are you? (2, Insightful)

Crashspeeder (1468723) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088380)

Could it be because the webapps are crippled by design? What good is a texting app that can't access your phonebook? That doesn't work terribly well as a webapp does it, now? If you want something useful, it'll have to be written in Obj-C.

What apps? (1)

vvaduva (859950) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088344)

There are no apps...all this "store" does is place shortcuts on your iPhone home screen to existing web-based apps like Google Voice and other apps which are mobile-friendly.

Re:What apps? (1)

EkriirkE (1075937) | more than 3 years ago | (#33090374)

If you think about it, this might be a good thing. To many apps I've run across appear to simply be a container of safari to a web portal. e.g. all the banking apps I've tried (chase,amex,discover)
They are a terrible waste of space. Flashlight apps a simple web page can provide, color changes and all -- most games. An app should only be a compiled app if it requires hardware input (MULTItouch, accel, gps. mic, etc) or if they can be used offline.
Most people don't seem to realize a bookmark can be a home screen icon.

What's so bad about a walled garden? (0, Troll)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 3 years ago | (#33088460)

And, really, I don't want the crap arguments about how they will lead to totalitarianism in the consumer computing space. The same folks who argue that tend to have no problem with Linus Torvalds being the benign dictator of the linux kernel, so please spare me. Someone please explain to be why it's so bad to have one, _just_one_, closed ecosystem? Ya'll have android. (The primary SDK for which is Java based, which I always found ironical.) Why the need to trash the iphone?

Re:What's so bad about a walled garden? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33090180)

Because people love to hate the popular?

What I want to know is...

Where's the same level of outrage against Microsoft for controlling and having the final say for anything published on XBoxLive?
Where's the same level of outrage against Sony for controlling and having the final say for anything published on PSN?
Where's the same level of outrage against Nintendo for controlling content published on their systems?

Wait, pay 99 cents for a link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33089076)

I have a hard time seeing how using this "app store" is any better than just googling for "iphone web app," or visiting Apple's web app link page, or any of a number of other methods for finding these things online.

where's the outrage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33089182)

Where's the outrage against Microsoft for controlling and having the final say for anything published on XBoxLive?
Where's the outrage against Sony for controlling and having the final say for anything published on PSN?
Where's the outrage against Nintendo for controlling content on their systems?

I'll catch a carp for this (2, Interesting)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 3 years ago | (#33090082)

But I'd rather have a more controlled environment where, for the most part, the apps have been vetted so they're not trying to steal any info from me. Part of the reason I'm not an Android fan (and no, I don't have an iPhone. Actually, I don't even have a smartphone).

Being open and fancy-free is fine for some things, but for others I'd prefer some measure of security.

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