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Firefox May Soon Overtake IE In Europe

kdawson posted more than 3 years ago | from the pick-your-stats dept.

Firefox 290

peterkern writes "The July browser market share reports are somewhat inconsistent, but if we believe StatCounter, then it looks like Firefox will be overtaking Microsoft IE's market share next month. The two browsers are both within 1 point of 40% market share, IE above and Firefox below. Europeans are more crazy about Firefox than Americans: In Germany, Firefox has a 61% market share, while IE has only 25%. Google Chrome is, according to StatCounter, now above 10%. ConceivablyTech has more details, including market share data from both StatCounter and Net Applications (which as of this month is limiting its free data)."

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290 comments

Browser market share (0, Redundant)

odies (1869886) | more than 3 years ago | (#33120938)

Firefox To Make History, About To Surpass IE in Europe

Firefox to make history by surpassing IE? I don't think it's really making history, considering Opera has always had up to 50% market share in CIS countries [opera.com] .

Also as it happens, IE is no more losing market share, but increasing it at the cost of Firefox [mashable.com] .

Microsoft Internet Explorer continues to make a comeback, gaining market share for the third month in a row, mostly to the detriment of Mozilla Firefox.

Internet Explorer increased its share of the browser market in July by 0.42%, for a total share of 60.74%. Firefox, on the other hand, took the biggest hit: a loss of 0.9%.

In addition to IE regaining some momentum, Chrome usage has also been soaring. At the short end of the stick though is Firefox, whose market share peaked in April at 24.59% and has steadily dropped since.

These stats fly in the face of the conventional wisdom that Internet Explorer is doomed to decline against the superior speed, extension capabilities and HTML5 support of FirefoxFirefox and ChromeChrome. And there’s an even bigger wrench that will soon be thrown into the mix: Internet Explorer 9, which boasts superior hardware-accelerated speed and strong support for open standards.

Re:Browser market share (5, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 3 years ago | (#33120990)

Of course this is all irrelevant to firefox making history by overtaking IE in Europe. An analogy, many parts of the world have universal healthcare but it would still be history for the USA if it was introduced there.

Re:Browser market share (3, Informative)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121256)

I was really hoping for an analogy using the metric system.

Re:Browser market share (5, Funny)

uffe_nordholm (1187961) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121438)

Don't worry, eventually the metric system will take over the USA, inch by inch.

Re:Browser market share (1)

Zumbs (1241138) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121652)

I seriously hope you mean square inch by square inch ...

Re:Browser market share (-1, Offtopic)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121654)

Officially it has.

The US is a metric-based country. Everything is measured in liters, meters, et cetera. It's just that trying to get the stubborn People to do what's good for them is difficult, because they keep talking about miles and gallons. Maybe the Congress ought to impose a fine. (Use metric or be fined $950.)

If it didn't happen in America, it didn't happen. (0, Flamebait)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121266)

Simple.

Ok, so Americans only make up 5% of the world population, they make up for it in consumption.

 

Re:If it didn't happen in America, it didn't happe (1, Flamebait)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121690)

And debt. $130,000 per US home. Is there any country higher than that?

Re:Browser market share (2, Informative)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121634)

>>>many parts of the world have universal healthcare

Monopoly healthcare. No choice healthcare.

Oh and yeah you're right. The article is about making history in EUROPE, because it would be the first time since Netscape that IE was not #1. The fact Opera is #1 in the former Soviet Republics is irrelevant to European browser share.

Re:Browser market share (3, Insightful)

lattyware (934246) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121002)

And Firefox has succeeded in doing what it was really meant to do - getting rid of the hell that was IE6. As long as microsoft keep trying to imporve their implementation of standards, then I don't care if people use IE or not. Personally, I use Firefox because of NoScript, AdBlock and DownThemAll, and the fact it has a master password for it's password database (unlike Chrome).

Re:Browser market share (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121210)

Unfortunately there are still sufficient users stuck on IE6 that we have to continue to develop for it (unless we're willing to turn away a sometimes significant number of users). These users are the ones who likely don't even have the option of using Firefox, probably because they're on a locked down corporate network. That means we have to rely either on MS back porting IE8 to older operating systems (never going to happen), admins allowing non-IE browser installations (I'm guessing there's a valid reason they're not doing this already) or just waiting around for those users to be migrated to more recent Windows installations. Either way we're still stuck with the horror of IE6 for some time yet, I fear.

Re:Browser market share (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121270)

This is true, but the point is, the trend has started. Not much we can do to speed it up, but at some point, reasonably soon, IE6 will become a distant memory.

Re:Browser market share (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121298)

Yes but the point is, there are now sufficient users running browsers other than IE that you have to develop for them...
A few years ago, sites were developed for IE6 and nothing else, causing problems for people on non windows systems.

The fact that developers are still burdened with having to make sites compatible with IE doesn't really effect end users so much, it's much easier to develop a site that works with modern standards compliant browsers than it is to kludge a site to work with IE6.

Re:Browser market share (1)

brainscauseminds (1865962) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121568)

Fortunately, according to http://gs.statcounter.com/ [statcounter.com] Firefox is the most widely browser for some time now in countries like for example Finland http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-FI-monthly-200907-201008 [statcounter.com] and Estonia http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-EE-monthly-200907-201008 [statcounter.com] .

Re:Browser market share (3, Interesting)

amorsen (7485) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121720)

Yes but the point is, there are now sufficient users running browsers other than IE that you have to develop for them...

The funny thing is that when Firefox had a similar market share to what IE6 has now, lots of sites said "screw it, this site only works in Internet Explorer". Adding support for Firefox was easy; just write a reasonably standards-compliant site and it looked ok in Firefox. Now developers have a much harder job trying to make sites work in IE6, yet you rarely see sites just rejecting it.

I still find the occasional site telling me I have an unsupported browser (Yahoo is one of them, which is pretty hilarious in 2010). HP blade enclosures "support" Firefox by asking you to install the IE tab extension.

Re:Browser market share (1)

Inconexo (1401585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121328)

It amaze me how many users are still using IE 6. I mean, why such a pain?

I can only explain it as either masochists or spambots identifying as IE 6. Only machines can sustain these unhuman conditions.

Re:Browser market share (5, Funny)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121478)

Oh grasshopper, allow your old and wise pal Hairyfeet to explain the ways that led to the garden of evil.

You see young one, once upon a time there was this thing called ActiveX. And in this naive and innocent time, when the web was young and the word bukkake was unknown in the west, the developers at Redmond pushed ActiveX as "everything you ever wanted...in a box!" it could build Rich Internet Apps, and turn even the hardest job into a simple form even sally in the typing pool could do. And even trained monkeys could write for ActiveX! And you know what? It was true! Oh how young and foolish everyone was! Every PHB on the block joined right in, and all thought it was well.

Unfortunately there was a REASON why ActiveX was so damned easy, and that was because it blew a hole right through the OS the size of a Peterbuilt. It turned out that trained monkeys also existed in China and Russia, and thanks to security not being taught the day the ActiveX guys were at school it quickly turned craptastic. MSFT, after getting laughed at and having rotten fruit thrown at them wisely treated ActiveX like the red headed stepchild and tried to quietly bash its brains out and bury it in the backyard. Sadly waaaay too many PHBs had bought into ActiveX Intranet apps, and found out that IE 6= works, and IE anything else =toast. But PHBs, being a rather stupid lot, decided that rather than spend the money to rewrite their Intranet would simply keep IE 6 4EVAR BWA HA HA HA HA!

So there you have it my son, the reason why a crappy browser nobody really liked is still used day, after day, after day, after day. It is because PHBs are stupid, more crappy Intranet ActiveX sites exist than you'd care to know (I even know of a few that still use IE 6 ActiveX based sites for processing CC info of their customers EEEK!) and until XP is quietly pushed out on that iceflow to die IE 6 will continue to slowly lumber on.

Re:Browser market share (1)

Inconexo (1401585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121552)

Quite a story. So, wise hairyfeet, I wait for another day in which you tell me the thing behind COBOL.

Re:Browser market share (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121534)

This is sadly true. I have a number of critical paperwork handling work applications which do not work properly on IE 8 or Firefox or any sane modern browser. And I have others that will no longer run on IE 6, so I need 2 desktop environments, and 2 licenses for them, just to push the paperwork.

Yet I still get angry glares from some of our own corporate staff at software presentations when I ask "does it run on Firefox" or "does it run on Linux"? It's especially sad when I ask "which version of Java does it require", because the "write once run everywhere" sometimes breaks down.

Re:Browser market share (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121704)

>>>DownThemAll

Why would I want to use this instead of Firefox's built-in download manager?

>>>it features an advanced accelerator that increases speed up to 400%

I don't see how this is possible. My ISP is 90 KB/s and I don't see how that could be accelerated upto 360 KB/s

Re:Browser market share (1)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121012)

your stats are all over the place literally, your opera 50% share crawls along the bottom of the graph where your showing IE as gaining. Thou did you notice the blue line was higher at the start of the graph than where it is now. The graph doesn't actually say where the stats cover I assume it is worldwide or maybe just microsofts website.
we just don't know do we.

ok so browser share is pretty much static and perhaps there is some more interest in chrome.

pretty much expected don't you think

Re:Browser market share (1)

selven (1556643) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121110)

IE increasing at the cost of Firefox? Really? My sources [statcounter.com] show that the slow march down for IE is still continuing.

Re:Browser market share (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121514)

Also as it happens, IE is no more losing market share, but increasing it at the cost of Firefox [mashable.com]

A <1% gain two months in a row doesn't rise above the level of statistical noise.

Re:Browser market share (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121570)

I don't think it's really making history, considering Opera has always had up to 50% market share in CIS countries [opera.com] .

ITYM "over 50% market share"[0]. According to your source, Opera has only over 50% in Belarus. If this was always so isn't mentioned in your article.

[0] otherwise: Opera had up to 50% market share since it's release. Just like FF. Worldwide.

pretty much over the browser wars (5, Insightful)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 3 years ago | (#33120972)

as long as other browsers have a big enough market share that MS has to continue play nice and follow standards it's not even that important.

Re:pretty much over the browser wars (3, Informative)

xtracto (837672) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121074)

I love it here in Europe, just the other day a colleague of mine surprised me by wanting to install Ubuntu.

People here are less resistant to change and have a tiny bit more of patience to adapt to new things. They do not equate "new/unknown" with "crap" as other countries do.

Re:pretty much over the browser wars (0, Troll)

kthreadd (1558445) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121206)

People here are less resistant to change and have a tiny bit more of patience to adapt to new things. They do not equate "new/unknown" with "crap" as other countries do.

Do they? I have never noticed.

Re:pretty much over the browser wars (1)

Inconexo (1401585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121356)

I guess it depends on which Europe are talking about. Here in Spain, people usually think that it's better something known to be bad that something good to be discovered (Más vale malo conocido que bueno por conocer).

Re:pretty much over the browser wars (1)

excelsior_gr (969383) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121470)

Heh, quite ironic given the fact that Spain is pretty much responsible for discovering the "other" half of the world...

Re:pretty much over the browser wars (1)

Inconexo (1401585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121516)

Well, that's the thing about discovering and conquering another continent: you don't feel the need to make history on another 500 years.

Not such a good news (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121108)

It is important that a bad browser has a big share : a whole ecosystem of ad-financed websites rely on people being unable to use adblock-like filters. The FOSS fan in me yays at firefox gaining more adherents but the cynical in me thinks that he may see more sites becoming less profitable.

Re:Not such a good news (3, Insightful)

AlexiaDeath (1616055) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121226)

Those sites should not make their ads annoying. Google text adds are fine most of the time, unless page has crapton of them. Discrete page fitting ads are fine as-well. But you cant really live without an ad blocker on today's web where certain ads scream at you and prevent you from focusing on the content. It's visual mostly, but some people still haven't gotten the memo about self playing voice adds being a bad thing...

Re:Not such a good news (1)

daem0n1x (748565) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121262)

I don't give a fuck. I use adblock, of course, so the Internet looks completely different to me than it looks for everyone else.

I hate ads and would be perfectly happy without them. I'm not in the business of providing revenue for websites. If there were more of me the current business model would disappear, but not the Internet. They would just find another business model.

Re:Not such a good news (2, Insightful)

Inconexo (1401585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121402)

Sites must find ways to profit. The mission of a browser (or any app) is providing the best user experience, and ad block is part of this. You cannot stop technology development and adoption just because some guys don't know how to make money.

Take a walk, Ballmer (4, Insightful)

water-and-sewer (612923) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121000)

It's getting harder and harder for Steve Ballmer to point to his resume and be able to justify his work over the past decade. While Microsoft has pushed out upgrades to all its software, the big picture is gloomy enough to make him sweat at upcoming board meetings: total loss to the ipod in the music market, total catastrophe in Microsoft's internally-competing music formats and platforms (Plays for Sure?), impending catastrophe in smart phones as RIM, Apple, and now Android eat his lunch, and growing irrelevance of desktop office software. Yes, they skirted disaster with Vista and pushed out Windows 7 which is generally well liked. But Microsoft is slipping behind in key growth markets and lack of vision and leadership is a big part of that.

If I were on the Board, I'd be telling Ballmer to go work on his golf game, and bring in new leadership. Microsoft has lots of talented developers and engineers. But upper management is sinking the ship.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (3, Insightful)

allcar (1111567) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121038)

Add to this their lack of success in pushing into the Enterprise Server market. .NET never had the impact they hoped. J2EE is still king of the application servers. SQL Server has made very little impact on the DB market. Oracle is King there. Windows Server has made few dents in the domination of UNIX. Solaris is still a force to be reckoned with. Open source has made far more impact in these areas - My SQL, PHP, Linux, but for the bigger enterprises, Larry's Empire is now becoming dangerously dominant, whilst Ballmer is largely an irrelevance and McNeely has gone completely. No doubt who won the battle of the CEOs.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (1)

DMiax (915735) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121138)

No doubt who won the battle of the CEOs.

Jobs? If I have to name a CEO that would never be replaced it is him.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (1)

Inconexo (1401585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121496)

Is that irony? Jobs sound as one that has a not so far time limit.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (4, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121172)

What planet are you on? .Net is big and getting bigger every year (in the past year we have been approached once for J2EE work, its been solidly .Net with a smattering of PHP, and these are not small jobs), SQL Server and Windows Server both enjoy increasing market share, with Oracle above and other offerings below.

And that is going to get worse (4, Informative)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121304)

If Oracle keeps acting like retards. I work for an engineering college at a university. If you know anything about engineering they it'll come as no surprise we are a Solaris and Windows shop. Solaris has a heavy legacy, it was doing high end work before other things could, and even today there are products that are Solaris only (though they could be ported to other OSes, they just aren't). While I won't say Solaris is problem free, I see the value in it. There is a difference between a real enterprise UNIX and Linux, loathe though Linux heads might be to admit it.

However we are currently in the process of getting rid of as much of it as we can. We are cutting it down to 4 essential servers and that number will likely go down further, perhaps to just one. Why? Because Oracle has decided to be complete fucks when it comes to licensing. So you already pay heavy maintenance on these SPARC systems. We could buy a new x86 server per year for the cost of maintenance on most of these things. Now that's not enough, they want to charge for Solaris patches, and they want to charge a lot. Oh, and should you ever stop paying they not only do you no longer get patches you are required, and I'm not making this up, to UNINSTALL all patches you've installed.

That's right, they are extorting you: You have to pay a yearly per server fee, or have a vulnerable system.

Well fuck that. We are getting rid of that shit post haste. Going to be Windows and Linux for as much as we can do. In the end I expect we'll need a single SPARC system to run the few apps that run on nothing else but that's it.

Guess what? If Oracle continues strategies like that with regards to other products, you'll find that MS will just gain more marketshare.

Mod parent up please (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121452)

Oracle is seriously screiny us around as well.
I hate to say this but DB2 looks more attractive from a pricing point of view every day.
That coupled with the insance price increases in WebLogic and Solaris, makes us seriously consider not buying anything more from Oracle/BEA/Sun.

We are already moving many critical systems to Linux on X86-64 Blades (Currently HP but maybe IBM in the future).

Oracle don't give a toss. All they want is more and more every month.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (1)

kikito (971480) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121494)

The fact that your company only has had .net offers only means what it says: that your company has had such offers. Deriving from there that ".Net is getting bigger every year" is not a valid assumption; I could give a counter example pretty easily: my company hasn't had a single .Net offering since it was started.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121614)

You are making a blatant assumption that we as a business do not know the market we are operating in, and that is a bad assumption to make - being approached is just one part of where our work comes from, and even when we go out into the market and talk to people they do not want Java, they want .Net. And that is in a large UK city with a huge financial and insurance presence, as well as a thriving new media community. Java just doesn't get asked for.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (5, Interesting)

rapiddescent (572442) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121694)

What planet are you on? .Net is big and getting bigger every year

in terms of 000,000's spent - J2EE massively outweighs .NET. I work in large enterprise systems delivery and the few financial orgs that went for .NET for truly resilient financial systems have moved away. .NET is used in places for presentation tier front end for web services but not a lot else.

The london stock exchange problems with tradelect (see article here [computerworld.com] ) demonstrated that even a well funded and supported closely by top MS engineers and consultants - the system could not scale or perform to enterprise standards. This sent a real message across the financial industry (here in the UK) with many architects shunning MS. I also had to do the same when my client, a large life assurer, is having to spend over £10m to replace a perfectly functioning MS VB6/ASP sales platform because there is no upgrade path to .NET and the windows 2003 systems that it uses will go out of support soon. The last thing we're going to do is give more business to MS - so it is currently being replaced with services on an open source ESB platform (with paid support of course). The IT people here have a hard time explaining to the business why we need to spend so much money to get no new business functionality.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121042)

He is also irrelevent within the company, he is a laughing stock that just sends out 2 page emails every quarter.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (3, Interesting)

Tom (822) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121054)

What you point out is niche markets for MS. The core business is still office, followed by the OS. The xbox is also coming around slowly, if I remember correctly it is even starting to make back its investment, though at the current rate it'll be a century or two before it breaks even.

When some other office suit tops 50% market share, that is when the Microsoft ship starts sinking. And, as it goes with ships, once it starts sinking, the rest goes fairly quickly. Losing the document format lock-in would put a huge hole in the hull. Browsers, music format, smart phones - all that stuff is just water that's come over the railing. It sucks, but it doesn't endanger the ship.

As for Balmer - MS had already lost its edge when he took over. I'm quite sure he becoming the fallboy was part of the deal. Does anyone here really think Gates stepped down because he didn't like being boss anymore? He stepped down because he knew that the star was fading, and he had to build an image seperate from MS or he'd go down with it. All the good that the Gates Foundation does has the purpose of washing his image clean. Even that idea is stolen from the robber barons. (note that I don't want to diminish the good the foundation does. I just point out it's not pure altruism but has a purpose.)

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (1)

allcar (1111567) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121090)

Office is critical and remains a strong product for them. Open Office / Star Office never really gained much market share, but it is looming irrelevance of the desktop that threatens office. Online apps (whether Google's or any other) are the threat here, and once again, MS has been slow to react.

When some other office suit tops 50% market share, that is when the Microsoft ship starts sinking. And, as it goes with ships, once it starts sinking, the rest goes fairly quickly. Losing the document format lock-in would put a huge hole in the hull.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121120)

> When some other office suit tops 50% market share, that is when the Microsoft ship starts sinking.

Why 50%? Microsoft's browser lock-in started to collapse when Firefox was only at about 15%, some years ago. It is only now that Firefox has started to overtake IE in some areas (over 60% in Germany).

In those same areas that are not so much under Microsoft's thumb as other areas of the globe, "some other office suite" has reached about 20% market share.

http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html

http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?blogid=14&entryid=2778

"What's interesting about these figures – particularly the high numbers in certain countries – is that it takes OpenOffice.org into the same kind of market-share territory that Firefox occupied a few years back."

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121140)

growing irrelevance of desktop office software

How so? Not disagreeing but frankly I'm yet to see any mind blowing changes in this area to actually get enterprises to notice.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (2, Insightful)

Tanaka (37812) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121222)

I dont agree on the .NET thing. .NET is leaving J2EE for dust, and for good reason. And thats not including Mono, which is getting some serious commercial users now.

Re:Take a walk, Ballmer (1)

master_p (608214) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121340)

The music and smartphone markets are not the main Microsoft markets. Microsoft's game is at home and office desktops, office applications, development environment, database and servers. Microsoft is by far the dominant force in most of these domains.

Corporate Browser (5, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121022)

I'm hoping the big change comes as corporations replace IE6. Moving to IE8 puts them in almost the same position they're in now 5 years down the road with respect to standards compliance, tie-in to the OS, etc, but it seems that's what most are doing. Perhaps some of them will have learned something.

Re:Corporate Browser (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121230)

5 years? Most CEOs do not stay 5 years. So this won't be their problem. People want to make money now, not in 5 years. Shareholders want return now, not in 5 years.

Great for the competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121024)

or the other way around, who cares.

Opposite world wide trend? (1)

asnelt (1837090) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121026)

This is strange. A news article in Germany http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,709769,00.html [spiegel.de] (german) which refers to Net Applications statistics states that it is actually the other way around. Though this seems to be the world wide statistic.

Re:Opposite world wide trend? (3, Interesting)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121278)

A CEO is looking for a new CFO for his company. He invites an engineer, a mathematician and a statistician for a group interview. The CEO asks, "How much is two plus two?" The engineer pulls out his calculator, punches it in, and says, "Four!"

The mathematician goes to the whiteboard, and scribbles down a proof, and says, "This proves that two plus two is four!"

The statistician, leans forward to the CEO, and whispers, "How much do you want two plus two to be?"

Microsolt, Sun, Oracle, IBM, Dell, HP, SAP etc. all do this: They will create a different definition for what comprises their market, and then they all claim to be the market leader.

Re:Opposite world wide trend? (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121696)

A CEO is looking for a new CFO for his company. He invites an engineer, a mathematician and a statistician for a group interview. The CEO asks, "How much is two plus two?" The engineer pulls out his calculator, punches it in, and says, "Four!"

The mathematician goes to the whiteboard, and scribbles down a proof, and says, "This proves that two plus two is solvable!"

The statistician, leans forward to the CEO, and whispers, "How much do you want two plus two to be?"

There, fixed that for you.

companies (4, Insightful)

Tom (822) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121034)

In Germany, Firefox has a 61% market share, while IE has only 25%.

And a huge part of that is companies that are suffering from Microsoft lock-in. Seriously, when I see people's private computers, be it friends or people at the airport, etc. - it is probably 80% or more Firefox. In most of the companies, however, IE is still the corporate standard, and quite often the only allowed browser.

Re:companies (2, Interesting)

AlexiaDeath (1616055) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121124)

I don't know anyone who uses IE of their own will in these parts. The last person who I know did was my father and he is nearing 70. Using IE ended the last time I had to remove porn spam from his computer 4 or so years ago. He has been using Firefox ever since and he has even learned to use the no-script extension when he ventures into the wild parts of the Internet. Not bad for an old guy. Its the sharepoint intranet sites that keep corporate users at IE. Well, the not savy ones. The rest install IETab.

Re:companies (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121164)

Firefox portable anyone?

Re:companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121200)

it will change, because people until some time ago had the same browser both at home and at work, now, they have maybe IE8 or Firefox at home, see how much better they run, and when they go to work face the IE6 frustration daily. It's not the little employees that will make that decision, but the big ones, who will share the same experience. Simple human psychology. In short, it's just a matter of time, and these market share changes only hasten it.

Re:companies (3, Insightful)

Lennie (16154) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121234)

This is because of the deployment system and profile-settings for IE. Official Firefox doesn't have them. They are working on MSI's for Firefox 4 though. That's the first step.

Re:companies (3, Informative)

Double Drop (1812370) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121554)

Two words: Group Policy. Neither Firefox nor Chrome have officially supported ADM files and without them corporates can't manage (i.e. lock down) large numbers of users effectively. Without this critical component neither will achieve widespread corporate adoption.

Europeans aren't trained well (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121040)

Really, selling online I've noticed that Europeans are terrible consumers. They don't listen well to our support staff, they immediately charge back if the service is not up to par, etc. etc. It's a hell dealing with Europeans.

If you're looking to make money, honestly, invest in US consumers first. Much easier to part them from their money and to convince them not to cancel/buy more.

Re:Europeans aren't trained well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121086)

exactly!

americans are so thoroughly brainwashed by the 'capitalism is good and god created the earth' mantra, that they just buy whatever you sell them without being critical. really a paradise for someone, who wants to make a profit. you should also be thankful to america's almost non-existant public school education. people, who can't calculate are sure to be better customers!

Re:Europeans aren't trained well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121372)

Are you seriously suggesting the reason Windows is so popular amongst regular users is because it's not free?

Re:Europeans aren't trained well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121440)

The reason Windows is so popular is because you cannot legally get it for free, yet you can get it illegally for free. The former gives people a sense of quality (ha!), while the latter ensures they actually go get it.

Re:Europeans aren't trained well (1)

Xamataca (921539) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121114)

....they immediately charge back if the service is not up to par, etc. etc. It's a hell dealing with Europeans.

bloody scrooges!!! what the hell they think they're doing with their money?!?!?!?!

Re:Europeans aren't trained well (5, Insightful)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121208)

Really, selling online I've noticed that Europeans are terrible consumers. They don't listen well to our support staff, they immediately charge back if the service is not up to par, etc. etc. It's a hell dealing with Europeans.

If you're looking to make money, honestly, invest in US consumers first. Much easier to part them from their money and to convince them not to cancel/buy more.

So what you're saying is that we're less gullible and more demanding? Why thank you, that's really nice of you.

I'll let you get back to assraping ignorant 'merkins now ;-)

opera for the win (1)

bakamorgan (1854434) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121058)

I use opera instead. I find IE just as much security issue prone as IE.

Re:opera for the win (2, Funny)

cc1984_ (1096355) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121096)

I use opera instead. I find IE just as much security issue prone as IE.

To offer a counter argument, from my personal experience I've found Opera to be as much of a security issue as Opera.

Re:opera for the win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121100)

I find IE just as much security issue prone as IE.

Me too.

Depends on the source WAY too much... (1)

Kireas (1784888) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121062)

I looked up browser shares yesterday, the w3schools collection of stats [w3schools.com] tells yet another story - it even shows chrome as picking up a lot recently. Personally, I'd go with "IE still on it's slippy slope, Firefox taking over, Chrome might be next".

Re:Depends on the source WAY too much... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121556)

W3schools stats are only about browser usage shares of the visitors of that site. Most people don't visit their site, so the stats are fairly useless.

coverage, please? (1)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121068)

Is this home users? Business users? How's the data collected?

My experience of home users that the majority certainly aren't downloading alternative browsers. My experience of business users is that you get some IT types hating IE but others wanting the enterprise integration IE offers, the balance being those apathetic who leave IE on. So, assuming the stats are representative, what is triggering this switch?

Re:coverage, please? (1)

AlexiaDeath (1616055) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121190)

IF you have a family member doing your IT support you will have Firefox. With adblock(very important, most crap happens by "OOOH, SHINY! *click**click**click*") and possibly noscript if you can be taught to operate it. Why? Because the support person values his/her free time spent doing the IT equivalent of manure shoveling. The users that can afford to go to a computer repair shop for crap cleaning stick with IE, because the cleaning guy wants to eat too and certainly is not going to tell the customer that he can be almost redundant...

Re:coverage, please? (1)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121220)

I've done the extended family + friend IT support thing and left some people on IE. Neither these guys nor the ones with FF seem to end up virus-laden once I've taken over the job. They've learnt to follow my eloquent speeches about how to behave online and enjoyed an appropriate level of anti-malware installation.

Today it's almost impossible to find straight up-to-date IE on a machine with good anti-malware installed being used as a vehicle for automagic malware installation. The guys who download a trojan .exe using IE will do the same with FF. The guys who leave Javascript enabled in Acrobat Reader will find the same setting in either browser.

tl;dr User education and least privilege all the way.

Re:coverage, please? (1)

AlexiaDeath (1616055) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121236)

User education and least privilege do work. But Ad-block will keep them form a lot of accidental damage of the stupid class.

Re:coverage, please? (1)

AlexiaDeath (1616055) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121238)

Example: Those Trojan infested smiley packs.

FF (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121150)

I didn't want to install software on my win7 running netbook but IE annoyed me so much, it became usable and smooth only after installing Firefox.

Today the first thing you do, you simply install Firefox, don't use IE, it is a pain.

Forced Browser Choice (4, Interesting)

Xarius (691264) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121160)

Could this be highly related to the fact that in Europe, as part of an anti-trust settlement, when you first log into a new Windows machine you are presented with a choice of internet browsers [microsoft.com] and no longer default to MSIE?

Re:Forced Browser Choice (1)

Lennie (16154) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121246)

No, this has always been the trend. The settlement didn't have a big impact as I see it.

Re:Forced Browser Choice (1)

CrashandDie (1114135) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121362)

How many people actually install Windows these days? Most corporations have a ghost image they roll onto every laptop, and I wouldn't be surprised most small tech firms do the same. Leaves Dell and supermarket computers, which are usually not used by the brightest of techies.

I'm guessing that I'd choose for "Microsoft" rather than "Mozilla" or "Opera" if I were to select a question I don't understand in the first place -- just because there's Microsoft branding all over the screen.

Re:Forced Browser Choice (1, Flamebait)

daveime (1253762) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121672)

Well it stopped the EU from extorting money from Microsoft. Never mind, they still have ongoing antitrusts with Google and Oracle to keep the coffers filled (and Greece in the black).

Funny how the customers / businesses were the ones who felt the pain, yet Brussels gets to keep all the money for themselves.

Re:Forced Browser Choice (3, Informative)

dag (2586) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121254)

Nope, the Firefox usage numbers have always been higher in Europe than elsewhere. This has been a tendency for years. And Germany also has a historical aversion for Microsoft software and was in the past a big Linux proponent (think SuSE) and StarOffice (now OpenOffice) was bigger than Microsoft Office for years IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if also OS/2 had a larger following to elsewhere (or at least US).

All this predates any anti-trust settlement, but I am sure that change will make a difference too, but the trend was always present.

Re:Forced Browser Choice (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121382)

I wouldn't be surprised if also OS/2 had a larger following to elsewhere (or at least US).

I wouldn't be surprised either. I bought a computer with OS/2 preinstalled in Germany, in 1995. Preinstalled by default, not as special wish. From the (AFAIK) largest German computer seller of that time (Vobis). It also had Star Office preinstalled.

That and IE is just old (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121342)

Well, old in the computer world at any rate. IE 8 came out in March of last year. It more or less has not been updated since then. It's been patched, of course, and gotten some compatibility view updates and such but the browser, the rendering engine, all that is nearly a year and a half old.

Lot has changed since then, there are new features people want that IE does not offer. Stagnation can cause people to switch. I switched from Netscape to IE back in the day for that reason. Netscape hit 4.7 and just stopped. IE continued rapid development. Same reason I switched to Firefox.

So we'll see, this may change back when IE9 comes out. Depends on when that makes it out, how good it is, what FF is doing then and so on.

It also may depend on if they introduce an easier plugin architecture. One of the things people love about FF is the plugins you can get. IE is just as extensible, possibly more so, but much harder to do. As such, less people actually make the plugins and they are harder for users to manage.

If IE9 is a good browser with a good plugin interface, it may win converts back. It is going to support hardware acceleration, which is pretty slick. FF is too, of course, but who knows when it'll be final, or how good a job it'll do.

Re:Forced Browser Choice (1)

Kireas (1784888) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121346)

Oddly enough, in all my Windows 7 installs, I've NEVER seen that browser choice window. Ever. Once. In the UK, by the way, which is part of Europe, last time I checked.

Re:Forced Browser Choice (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121548)

I installed an update once which in the description said it had the choice dialog. It didn't show up because I already used a different browser as default.

Only in Europe (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121178)

Have you noticed that Europe has a much bigger uptake of Linux, Firefox and in the older days Amiga?
I've often wondered if this is Europe being "open minded"....

I would love to be able to say the same about Australia...

AC

Firefox market share drops as IE makes slender gai (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121292)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/02/browser_market_share_july/ [theregister.co.uk]

Mozilla's Firefox has lost market share against Google's young pretender Chrome browser for the third month in a row.

According to NetMarketShare's latest stats, Firefox's share of the global browser market slipped under 23 per cent in July.

  Meanwhile, Microsoft's Internet Explorer saw its usage share rise a slender 0.42 per cent last month. It's up about one per cent since May, the stats firm noted.

"This is the second month in a row of global gains for Internet Explorer and the third straight month of gains for Internet Explorer 8 in the United States. The gain comes at the expense of Firefox (-.9%) and Chrome (-.08%)," said NetMarketShare.

Apple's Safari broke the five per cent barrier for the first time this year after languishing around the 4.5 per cent mark for most of 2010.

Internet Explorer, down some five per cent on September 2009 figures, topped out the list with a 60.74 per cent worldwide market share for July.

Chrome saw a small dip in global usage last month, and currently stands at 7.16 per cent of browser usage globally.

But Google's own surfing tool's popularity has blossomed in little over a year since its launch. The browser jumped ahead of Safari to take the number three spot in December last year.

In effect, the current state of play in the browser wars remains pretty much unchanged, then. Down the line it's fair to surmise that Chrome will make some gains, perhaps at the expense of Firefox. At the same time, it's unlikely that IE usage will see any major drops or jumps either

related to spam levels (1)

Ptur (866963) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121302)

Could the browser marketshare be related to spam levels? US is a much bigger spammer, meaning more zombie computers. Easier hacked due to running IE?

What about the holidays ? (1)

dag (2586) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121330)

How about taking into account the holiday season ? I'd be interested to compare this with the trends for June, July, August and September the previous years, as I expect that browser-usage depends on sunny weather conditions, holiday-trips and people in the office browsing more with less work on their hands ? Maybe ?

On a global level this may mean not that much, but a 1% to 2% fluctuation could be addressed by this. So maybe we should wait until September or October before making any conclusions...

Change happens when people are unhappy enough (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121338)

Seems clear that the people of Europe are generally unsatisfied and I am willing to bet that other changes, not related to Microsoft or MSIE are occurring at the same time and I would venture to guess that it is anti-American at its hearts. Not that I blame the people of Europe in the least. In a way, it might help the people of the U.S. become better people.

Re:Change happens when people are unhappy enough (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121708)

If my experience counts (I live in a small country in Europe), people are not anti-US, not by a long shot. And if they were anti-US, they'd use other OS, not just switch browsers.

IE up, firefox down (0)

shird (566377) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121384)

And on the same day is this story about IE share going up, and firefox down:

http://www.neowin.net/news/ie-usage-grows-in-july-firefox-share-declines [neowin.net]

Goes to show you really can't take any of these findings seriously.

Re:IE up, firefox down (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121660)

Goes to show you really can't take any of these findings seriously.

No. TFA is about market share in Europe - yours is about worldwide market share.

creators overtaking unprecedented evile et al (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33121510)

deepends on who you ask of course. one thing's for sure, as the badtoll (mostly for our cooperation in destroying other folks' property/lives)) is currently being waged to culmination, you won't see it here, amongst 'stuff that matters' (or anywhere else, presently).

meanwhile (we even think we can buy time); the corepirate nazi illuminati is always hunting that patch of red on almost everyones' neck. if they cannot find yours (greed, fear ego etc...) then you can go starve. that's their (slippery/slimy) 'platform' now. see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

never a better time to consult with/trust in our creators. the lights are coming up rapidly all over now. see you there?

greed, fear & ego (in any order) are unprecedented evile's primary weapons. those, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' life0cidal hired goons' agenda. most of our dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'wars', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid schemes. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & any notion of prosperity for us, or our children. not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one, & the terminal damage to our atmosphere (see also: manufactured 'weather', hot etc...). see you on the other side of it? the lights are coming up all over now. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be your guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. we now have some choices. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on your brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

"The current rate of extinction is around 10 to 100 times the usual background level, and has been elevated above the background level since the Pleistocene. The current extinction rate is more rapid than in any other extinction event in earth history, and 50% of species could be extinct by the end of this century. While the role of humans is unclear in the longer-term extinction pattern, it is clear that factors such as deforestation, habitat destruction, hunting, the introduction of non-native species, pollution and climate change have reduced biodiversity profoundly.' (wiki)

"I think the bottom line is, what kind of a world do you want to leave for your children," Andrew Smith, a professor in the Arizona State University School of Life Sciences, said in a telephone interview. "How impoverished we would be if we lost 25 percent of the world's mammals," said Smith, one of more than 100 co-authors of the report. "Within our lifetime hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions, a frightening sign of what is happening to the ecosystems where they live," added Julia Marton-Lefevre, IUCN director general. "We must now set clear targets for the future to reverse this trend to ensure that our enduring legacy is not to wipe out many of our closest relatives."--

"The wealth of the universe is for me. Every thing is explicable and practical for me .... I am defeated all the time; yet to victory I am born." --emerson

no need to confuse 'religion' with being a spiritual being. our soul purpose here is to care for one another. failing that, we're simply passing through (excess baggage) being distracted/consumed by the guaranteed to fail illusionary trappings of man'kind'. & recently (about 10,000 years ago) it was determined that hoarding & excess by a few, resulted in negative consequences for all.

consult with/trust in your creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." )one does not need to agree whois in charge to grasp the notion that there may be some assistance available to us(

boeing, boeing, gone.

Enemy (1)

nOw2 (1531357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33121528)

So when does Firefox become the big corporate enemy that everyone hates?

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