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Google Kills Wave Development

timothy posted about 4 years ago | from the harshing-on-mellow dept.

Communications 327

We've mentioned several times over the past two years Wave, Google's ambitiously multi-channel, perhaps plain overwhelming entry in the social media wars. Now, reader mordejai writes "Google stated in its official blog that they will not continue developing Wave as a standalone product. It's sad, because it had a lot of potential to improve communications, but Google never promoted it well, denying it a chance to replace email and other collaboration tools for many uses."

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Did anyone ever actively use it? (1)

e065c8515d206cb0e190 (1785896) | about 4 years ago | (#33144172)

I wonder...

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (4, Interesting)

thoughtfulbloke (1091595) | about 4 years ago | (#33144394)

I used it. Specifically, I used it for hyper rapid content development among small groups of dispersed people. The advantages of simultaneous editing of single documents (along with the edit history) were huge for this particular niche.
The thing is, there aren't many small dispersed groups needing hyper rapid content development. If you weren't as dispersed, or had the time for consecutive (rather than concurrent) editing, other traditional tools were better. The interface, and its tendency to bog down once the wave sizes grew large, didn't help either.
But as I fell into the small niche it was really useful for, rather than just as a novelty, I will miss it.

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about 4 years ago | (#33144930)

I also used it for similar purposes.
It is hands above the competition in its niche.

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (1)

DarkIye (875062) | about 4 years ago | (#33144448)

Very useful for small to medium-sized project collaboration, software and probably otherwise. That's how they should have billed it from the start. It lends itself to people putting up clumps of text, and allowing other people to modify it (the meat of it is basically a more dynamic version of a wiki).

It's too unstable to be particularly good for anything bigger than that, and offers nothing which makes it more suitable than the existing stuff for instant messaging.

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (2, Interesting)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33144626)

I used it all the time. Our development team does scrum/agile, and we have some remote team members. We used to use Etherpad for doing collaborative sprint planning, but when Google bought and killed it, folding those developers into Wave development, we were forced onto Wave. It's been useful (though I liked Etherpad better), and now we're in a position of wondering what tool we can use to fill this need.

Anyone have any suggestions??

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (1)

mevets (322601) | about 4 years ago | (#33144662)

Funny, we just started using it for conference calls. With our group distributed, it is really handy to have a private way to communicate during meetings. Has the side effect of keeping all the meeting notes in one spot. I hope it continues to be offered.

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (3)

no1home (1271260) | about 4 years ago | (#33144822)

I was invited into it, so I signed up. Looked around and couldn't find a way to make it useful to me and never went back. So I for one won't miss it. However, I can see where others will miss it.

Re:Did anyone ever actively use it? (1)

grumbel (592662) | about 4 years ago | (#33144962)

I wanted, then I found at that it is currently not possible (or at least awkward via some email hack) to create a public wave, then I went away thinking "I'll try that again when its ready"... Guess that will now never happen, to bad, since it actually looked quite good for development discussions, brainstorming and all that other stuff that isn't quite a mailing list discussion and not quite a wiki either.

First wave (1, Funny)

jlar (584848) | about 4 years ago | (#33144182)

First wave (oh no, they killed it)

SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (3, Insightful)

cencithomas (721581) | about 4 years ago | (#33144188)

...and nothing of value was lost.

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (4, Insightful)

HeckRuler (1369601) | about 4 years ago | (#33144292)

That's because it's chat with a couple of features.
Now, the feature where you can chat in between previous lines of chat is nice and all, but what killed the wave is that starry-eyed marketers got a hold of it and sold it as the new revolution.

Like sharepoint. It's a web framework with some extra features. Or, it's a collection of prebuilt web pages with an SQL backend. But they don't sell it as that. They load it with 200% of Marketese and Weaselish and it can bring you a sandwich. (Just not out of the box).

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144532)

Key difference: Sharepoint sells like hotcakes and brings in cash by the truckload.

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (1)

Wagoo (260866) | about 4 years ago | (#33144650)

That's because it's chat with a couple of features.

The principle of which is deleting what someone previously wrote and replacing their text with "I'M GAY!!!!"

Incidently the wave I used for one afternoon with some friends now takes hundreds of megs to load in a browser..

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (2, Funny)

Eirenarch (1099517) | about 4 years ago | (#33144732)

Wait. Do you claim Sharepoint is dead like Wave?

Isn't this supposed to be a tech site? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144762)

Where the fuck did all these idiots like HeckRuler come from? Did some school district start providing laptops and WiFi access for their Short Bus?

Except Sharepoint actually makes money (3, Informative)

melted (227442) | about 4 years ago | (#33144788)

Except Sharepoint actually makes money. And not just a few bucks, but $1B in yearly revenue (I know, it's not profit, but it's profitable).

http://www.ameinfo.com/152875.html [ameinfo.com]

And that's not counting the sales of SQL and Windows Server CALs that you will need to run it properly. If you study this market carefully (I did) you will see that Sharepoint is the only semi-decent product, and, e.g. Alfresco (which positions itself as the strongest competitor to Sharepoint) is a half-baked, broken piece of crap, with or without the yearly support contract.

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144850)

And it works like a charm. Everyone one-off, non-IT, IT department is clamouring to get their hands on "Sharepoint". Most of the "IT Directors" are promoted from other parts of the business and have absolutely no idea what they're doing. So when Microsoft tells them something is a "Best Practice" and that it's "Best of Breed" and "Web 2.0" and "SaaS" and on and fucking on, these douche bags swallow it hook, line, sinker and pole.

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about 4 years ago | (#33144968)

Sure it is chat with a couple of features, but it is done in such a way as to make it very unique.
Having used Wave in all its current greatness and even more amazing potential I would still state that wave is the future, or at least a program/service that has very similar features is the future.

Re:SURVEY SAYS?? ...Meh. (1)

grumbel (592662) | about 4 years ago | (#33145026)

The thing I don't get: Why wasn't there an easy way to create a public wave? Wasn't that thing meant to be integrated in your own webpages and stuff like that? How would have any of that worked without public waves? The thing felt like a Wiki that is invite-only, good for a few things, but to be truly usable you want the ability to open it up to the rest of the world.

perfect time to spam about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144190)

My new Google Wave client! http://micro-wave.appspot.com

Re:perfect time to spam about (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144446)

Hi, antimatter15 [slashdot.org] !

Re:perfect time to spam about (1)

antimatter15 (1261618) | about 4 years ago | (#33144580)

Hi, antimatter15 [slashdot.org] !

Hello! I forgot to login for that post -_-

Tech blogs are funny. (1, Insightful)

Blice (1208832) | about 4 years ago | (#33144258)

It kind of goes to show how full of shit most tech blogs are. Almost all of them were talking about how Wave was the future, absolutely, after watching one indie youtube video about it explained in cute crayon drawings.

Re:Tech blogs are funny. (2, Funny)

nacturation (646836) | about 4 years ago | (#33144298)

It kind of goes to show how full of shit most tech blogs are. Almost all of them were talking about how Wave was the future, absolutely, after watching one indie youtube video about it explained in cute crayon drawings.

Perhaps there should be a rule for them. Just as with companies using the products they make is called eating their own dog food, blogs who promote someone else's failed product should have to eat their own dog shit.

Re:Tech blogs are funny. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144326)

Being wrong vs being full of shit... two different things. My Amiga collection will tell you so, as will my C-64SX which didn't have a battery but really was portable and reliable in 1985.

Re:Tech blogs are funny. (2, Funny)

sakdoctor (1087155) | about 4 years ago | (#33144384)

Morpheus: Unfortunately, no one can be told what Google wave is. You have to see an indie youtube video for yourself.

Completely Google's Fault (5, Insightful)

Geurilla (759701) | about 4 years ago | (#33144516)

This is completely Google's fault. Google Wave is a great product as it currently is, but Google completely failed to communicate to people why. But more to the point, Google itself failed miserably to leverage its own idea in the ways the first demo at Google I/O promised. Why can't I integrate gmail with Google Wave? Why after all this time does it still not work on my phone? Why doesn't it work with Google Docs? Why doesn't it work with Google Buzz?

More importantly, why would someone waste so much time, money, and manpower on a product they have no intention of supporting through interoperability with their own product line and through advertising and public exposure? What did they think would happen?

This is yet another huge screwup for Google indicative of their inability to build social networking products. Maybe it's time to sell my Google shares.

Re:Completely Google's Fault (1)

Shin-LaC (1333529) | about 4 years ago | (#33144756)

Ok, then maybe you can do better. Tell me, what is Wave, and why should I care? (Or should have cared.)

Re:Tech blogs are funny. (1)

Stan Vassilev (939229) | about 4 years ago | (#33144546)

It kind of goes to show how full of shit most tech blogs are. Almost all of them were talking about how Wave was the future, absolutely, after watching one indie youtube video about it explained in cute crayon drawings.

You may be hitting the wrong blogs. What I read, coincided with my own opinion: interesting technology, but little advantage over competition, and high complexity, means you won't see mainstream adoption over basics like email.

Of course, maybe I unintentionally looked for blogs to match my own opinion. So.. what were you looking for ;) ?

Re:Tech blogs are funny. (2, Insightful)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 4 years ago | (#33144708)

It kind of goes to show how full of shit most tech blogs are.

Tech reporting has always been full of shit. In the 70's, when I read "Popular Mechanics/Science," they always had something that was "just few years away." Mostly, the stuff never appeared. In the 80's, we were going to have a "paperless office," real soon. The pervasiveness of computers just enables more folks to print out stuff that they probably will never read anyway. Also in the late 80's Token Ring would eventually replace Ethernet, because it is technically superior. When that didn't occur, desktop ATM would enable multimedia applications for everyone. What about the hype about Grid Computing? Oh, that's Cloud Computing now.

The more hype there is about some new tech, the less chance that it will ever see the light of day.

Tech blogs just enable more folks to rave about something that they don't understand.

I knew it was bullshit, really. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144816)

Wanna know how I knew Wave wasn't the future? It's because no one -- I mean fucking no one -- could describe it. After all this time, I still don't know what Wave is/was.

It probably sounds like I'm proud of my ignorance, or that I'm implying that I'm oh-so-clever and above it all. No, no, no, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that if Wave had substance, someone, I mean anyone with even a moderate-to-bad gift for words, would have been able to fucking explain what Wave is!! If the only answer you can ever get is, "You've just got to try it," then there's just nothing there.

Nothing else in life is like that. The web wasn't like that. Google wasn't like that. Beer isn't like that, sex isn't like that, ann rock'n'roll isn't like that. Sometimes "you've just got to try it" may very well be the best answer, but it's never the only answer, unless the subject is just totally underwhelming and empty.

I'll be the first (2, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | about 4 years ago | (#33144262)

To Wave Goodbye.

Get it?

Re:I'll be the first (-1, Redundant)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | about 4 years ago | (#33144658)

No you see, I was afraid this would happen. You Mods clearly didn't get it.

See I waved goodbye, like "Bye Bye" - and the product was called Wave. I used the product name to form a sentence relevant to what happened to the product. It's like a play on words.

I hope that all the confusion is cleared up and I immediately get the +5OMGCLEVER I deserve.

Re:I'll be the first (1)

Chibi Merrow (226057) | about 4 years ago | (#33144860)

I'd kill for a -50 DIAF mod right now.

I kid, nothing but love...

but go DIAF...

FTFA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144284)

Wave has not seen the user adoption we would have liked. We don’t plan to continue developing Wave as a standalone product, but we will maintain the site at least through the end of the year and extend the technology for use in other Google projects. The central parts of the code, as well as the protocols that have driven many of Wave’s innovations, like drag-and-drop and character-by-character live typing, are already available as open source, for homosexuals, so customers and partners can continue the innovation we began. In addition, we will work on tools so that users can easily “liberate” their content from Wave.

Re:FTFA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144606)

Moderated as troll? Huh? Yeah, it's just copy-pasta from the linked article but I don't get the -1 mod...

Not Open (4, Insightful)

Skinkie (815924) | about 4 years ago | (#33144288)

The problem probably with wave is that there was no community behind it. Widget could be developed with some pain. But the entire frontend stack was not available to experiment with. It is also sad that the development of the eJabberd guys (Process One) never was launched as Wave server alternative. Personally I found the demo's more impressive than my own experiences with it. But the experiences I did have, were good.

UI was weird (4, Insightful)

saikou (211301) | about 4 years ago | (#33144294)

And performance was a bit sketchy too. But most of all, it didn't have a clear 30-seconds or less explanation on what exactly it should be used to, and be better at it than email/IM.
So, wow factor was there, but users got bored, and went back to the regular bulletin boards. Where it's not that important to see that someone is typing right now, everything is more or less static and easy to understand.

I suppose online support could use it to communicate with customers, but then it'd need some heavy tweaking...

Re:UI was weird (1)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33144660)

They should have marketed it as a niche product for scrum/agile development teams with remote members to do collaboration and sprint planning and such. Our team found it very useful for that (as we found Etherpad before it). Problem is, with those two products now gone, what do we use for real-time collaboration and planning? Email cannot cut it, and neither chan "chat". This is seriously going to suck unless we can find a decent (free) tool to replace it.

I love that since it's a Google product (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144302)

...amateur tech journalist types assume it was a big deal.
The developers and the company are obviously going to be fine. No need to shed tears.

I really liked it (3, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 4 years ago | (#33144310)

Clearly I am in the minority but it was really useful and good for collaboration, imo. Then again I enjoyed Google Notebook too. It will be a shame to see it go.

Re:I really liked it (4, Funny)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | about 4 years ago | (#33144560)

Please don't like Gmail or Google Calendar. I don't won't those to go away too! ;)

Re:I really liked it (1)

John Hasler (414242) | about 4 years ago | (#33144758)

> Please don't like Gmail or Google Calendar.

But please do like FaceBook and Twitter.

Better yet, like spam.

What did it actually bring? (5, Insightful)

mrbene (1380531) | about 4 years ago | (#33144324)

Wave was somewhere between IM, email, forums, and The Wall. It never made much sense to me - it was kinda like asking me to cook dinner Swiss Army Knife - yeah, I can open wine, cut the meat, saw open the bread, and, well, do something with a screwdriver, but the specialized tools are much better suited for each task.

Maybe some folks did find value in it, but it seemed that the easiest thing to do on Wave was to talk about ways that Wave was theoretically good for doing stuff. And then I'd end up going and doing that stuff with the tools I'd been using to do that stuff up until now with, anyway. Either way, a product with as significant an identity crisis as Wave had from the get go isn't meant for greatness.

Re:What did it actually bring? (4, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | about 4 years ago | (#33144390)

Once my team and I 'bought in' to using it, it became a marvelous tool. Very helpful, very speedy.

But ahead of it's time. Like handing someone from 1980 a smart phone.

Re:What did it actually bring? (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about 4 years ago | (#33144482)

Agreed, I don't use it much for my personal life but I used it loads at work for communication amongst team mates. It was very easy to communicate and get a clear break down of conversations and I do believe something similar will pop up in the future.

Re:What did it actually bring? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144710)

Once my team and I 'bought in' to using it, it became a marvelous tool. Very helpful, very speedy.

For almost every conceivable activity, there's already better general purpose tools in widespread use.

But ahead of it's time. Like handing someone from 1980 a smart phone.

You think my iPhone's bubble wrap game and flashlight app would be totally beyond their level of comprehension? I had an Atari 2600 in 1980, if you'd shown me Google Wave or the iPhone and said "this is what computing will look like in 30 years" I'm afraid I wouldn't have been very impressed.

Re:What did it actually bring? (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | about 4 years ago | (#33144476)

Well you actually made a good analogy - it being more like a Swiss Army Knife and that specialized tools being better.

But if that were always the case - there'd be no market for Swiss Army Knives and they probably wouldn't exist.

So I guess its just a little more surprising that a product like this didn't work, being that jack of all trades that some of the market might have liked.

Re:What did it actually bring? (0)

ScrewMaster (602015) | about 4 years ago | (#33144568)

Well you actually made a good analog

Yes, he did, but it needed a car.

Re:What did it actually bring? (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | about 4 years ago | (#33144552)

And yet it didn't do any one of those things as well the specialized tools did. Which was the problem with it from what I saw. I played with it for about 2 days and discovered that it was too slow (even with Google Chrome) to replace IM or IRC, there was too much information displayed all at once for it to replace email and forums, and there weren't enough 3rd party tools and clients.

I dunno. I like the Swiss Army Knife analogy.

Re:What did it actually bring? (1)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33144712)

What do you suggest as a "specialized tool" to replace it?

We used to use Etherpad for collaborative planning and communication for our (geographically dispersed) scrum/agile team. I liked it better because it had two things that Wave didn't: Line numbers (made it easier to refer to things) and each person contributing had their own text color, so you could see who typed what. But Google bought Etherpad and killed it. So now instead of two possible options, we have zero.

Are there other free collaborative editors out there, that give us the ability to have multiple people collaborate on text in real-time, and see what each other are typing?

Google Wave filled a necessary function for our team (and Etherpad before it). I'd like to find something to replace these two that is at least as good as either.

How The Hell Did This Idiot Get Modded Up? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144604)

mrbene idiotic ramblings and all the other dimwits running their mouths off because their moronic peabrains just can't grasp 'teh Wave' are a shocking illustration of just how FUCKING STUPID the average fuckwad out there is.

Yes, dumbfuck, Wave technologies have nothing to offer braindead fucks like you.

For grown ups at real companies Wave technologies destroy anything else out there for remote real time group collaboration. Thankfully now that Google is pulling the Wave web client app, Google can continue to integrate Wave technologies throughout their products without have the incessant blathering about 'teh Wave hype' from morons like mrbene.

Re:What did it actually bring? (4, Insightful)

farnsworth (558449) | about 4 years ago | (#33144692)

I always thought that their webapp was just a demo of how the protocol works and what it could do. I for one was looking forward to forums such as slashdot changing their backend to Wave. There are so many great communities that have terrible software that could benefit from a robust backend that has all the cool features that Wave has.

It's not clear if the backend aspect of Wave is dead or not, but it kinda seems that way. And that's too bad. I guess the protocol is technically OSS, but it seems unlikely that an installable instance of it will ever come to be.

Re:What did it actually bring? (1)

nEoN nOoDlE (27594) | about 4 years ago | (#33144818)

I thought Wave was great. Yes, it was just a combination of a bunch of other tools that people were using, but there is something to be said for unification of those tools into one cohesive whole. I, for instance, am glad that my phone is also a camera and a calendar. The big problem with Wave was that it was slow and buggy. It would crash constantly and if you had over 50 posts on a wave, it would become unusable. Also, it was hard to get people to know when an update on the Wave was posted. By the time they implemented e-mail notifications, people already moved back to what they were used to and didn't want to deal with the bugginess. I wish they stuck around with it and gave it a chance to catch on.

So, the obvious next step (4, Insightful)

Bruce Perens (3872) | about 4 years ago | (#33144334)

Although Google has said they plan to Open Source the Wave software, there has only been a partial release so far. Can we have the whole thing, please? Of course Open Source is a good way to make sure that some good comes of a discontinued product.

Re:So, the obvious next step (1)

microbee (682094) | about 4 years ago | (#33144724)

You said it as if there were shortage of discontinued open source products.

Re:So, the obvious next step (3, Interesting)

Bruce Perens (3872) | about 4 years ago | (#33144776)

Code dying on the vine is part of the Darwinistic process that maintains the quality of Open Source. If nobody cares about it, nobody will develop it. What I suspect in this case is that there might be a community willing to carry on this project. It's an interesting product.

Re:So, the obvious next step (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144980)

You said it as if there were shortage of discontinued open source products.

You said that as if there were shortage of discontinued closed source products.

What's the harm in requesting open sourcing? It might even lead to something good.

integrate with gmail (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144340)

If the wave concept was designed to integrate into gmail then I think it may have gone somewhere. Why would I want to go to a separate interface to communicate with a few select people who are using wave when most of my contacts are in gmail? If this gap was bridged I think it would be a lot more accessible for people.

Wave sucked. End of story. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144356)

Ever tried it out? On some real world project? Just to see the 'lot of potential' kill your bleeding edge laptop performance brutally, crash your firefox or whatever else, plainly annoy and slow down the entire project? Unstoppably flood your mailbox with junk reports? Let you scratch your head for hours wondering how to do even plain simple operations like changing one setting?

I'm glad they opened their eyes on that, at Google. It was just not the time, yet. Goodbye Wave, foor good.

Wave goodbye... (-1, Troll)

DiamondGeezer (872237) | about 4 years ago | (#33144358)

Which idiots thought it would be a cool idea to make email and instant messaging into an immersive experience? Some of us actually want to be away from the keyboard ACTUALLY HAVING SEX (which makes me a tiny minority on /. ) rather than sending deep thoughts like OMG! WTF! BBQ! FTW! to other morons.

I don't need a more immersive experience with my computer.The only ones who do are those not getting laid. Ever.

Gaming (2, Informative)

Bigbutt (65939) | about 4 years ago | (#33144362)

We used it to run games but it got so overwhelmed we'd have to create new Waves every 50 or so posts. So I'd have a In Character 1, In Character 2, Table Talk 1, GM to Player 1, GM to Player 2, etc... At one point we had 30 or so different Waves.

[John]

Re:Gaming (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | about 4 years ago | (#33144700)

Ever use something like OpenRPG? If so, how'd it compare?

64 bit web site (3, Funny)

TopSpin (753) | about 4 years ago | (#33144366)

I really enjoyed watching Chrome swell up to 3GB resident memory, and then detonate, while wading through all that dynamic "content." The core files were... remarkable.

It was wierd. (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 4 years ago | (#33144368)

Once you got usde to it, it as awesome; however it's hard to explain to people why and get them through the learning curve. I suspect there will be something like this used as corporate communication in the future. Man, so freaking awesome.

Interesting... (1)

i_ate_god (899684) | about 4 years ago | (#33144402)

Well, it was a cool concept. I can see different parts of the framework they've created being useful for specific implementations.

Maybe they'll just open source wave entirely. That would be neat...

This will hurt google in the future (5, Insightful)

Z8 (1602647) | about 4 years ago | (#33144404)

Even if Wave was a bad idea, perhaps Google should have continued to support it.

Why throw resources into a bottomless pit? Because time and time again it's not the best technology that wins, it's the one that everyone thinks everyone else is using. (Examples (debatable of course): qwerty keyboards, VHS, SQL, windows, C++, XML, javascript)

In the future, Google will unveil other major initiatives and will try to reach critical mass with them. Now that people know Google is willing to abandon a large project so easily, they will be less likely to commit to future Google projects.

Re:This will hurt google in the future (1)

John Hasler (414242) | about 4 years ago | (#33144798)

Now that people know Google is willing to abandon a large project so easily, they will be less likely to commit to future Google projects.

So now the projects will actually have to have some merit? Sounds good to me.

Re:This will hurt google in the future (1)

Z8 (1602647) | about 4 years ago | (#33145020)

So now the projects will actually have to have some merit? Sounds good to me.

Ideally you're right, but often which projects have merit in the long term is a self-fulfilling prophesy. A decision to switch to a platform is a long-term commitment, and necessarily is about what will have "merit" 5 years from now.

Google is up against Apple and its Reality Distortion Field and Microsoft with its 90 thousand employees and its Windows/Office cash cow monopoly. Google must convince people that its platforms will have critical mass five years from now—if they don't their projects won't have (long term) merit, no matter how good they are.

Re:This will hurt google in the future (1)

Maarx (1794262) | about 4 years ago | (#33144854)

This is exactly what I was planning on saying as I read the comments, but you said it better.

Re:This will hurt google in the future (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144986)

In the future, Google will unveil other major initiatives and will try to reach critical mass with them.

That's already the situation, as Google has produced and killed an untold number of platforms and projects over the years. Google Deskbar, Google Notebook, Google Web Accelerator, Google Lively, Google Answers, Google Browser Sync... I'm also not hearing much of Google Voice lately.

  No wonder people didn't want to risk with Wave until "it sticks".

Once you're in that hole of self-fullilling prophecy of failure, there's no way out. Too bad.

Prediction: Gmail integration (5, Interesting)

FleaPlus (6935) | about 4 years ago | (#33144416)

I'll predict that we'll instead see most of Wave's functionality/technology incorporated into gmail, either as a separate panel like Buzz or integrated pop-ups like Google Talk is. It really didn't make sense to have it be a dedicated site, since it made it harder to integrate with one's other activities. I imagine that within a few months Gmail will probably introduce functionality to convert an existing email and/or chat thread into a wave.

Re:Prediction: Gmail integration (1)

systematical (1394991) | about 4 years ago | (#33144470)

Or why not at least give it the ability to send an email. I mean WTF!?!

Let's be honest here... (5, Insightful)

neonKow (1239288) | about 4 years ago | (#33144422)

Google never promoted it well

It never took off because it was slow, buggy, and unintuitive. I got better frames per second on Team Fortress 2. Entire sites [easiertoun...anwave.com] were made dedicated to how Google Wave made us feel like old people using computers. Initially, Wave didn't even work on Google's own Chrome browser.

Google Wave got plenty of coverage. It didn't take off because it was bad.

On a related note, has anyone tried those collaborative diagramming tools that already exist? I expected (and would've been happy with) a multiplayer version of MS Visio over a real-time forum.

Oh god... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144684)

How the fuck did random idiots like you end up thinking Wave was something their peabrained little heads had any business touching?

Go back to playing Team Fortress dummy. Leave the developer tools to the grownups, k?

micro-wave.appspot.com (1)

antimatter15 (1261618) | about 4 years ago | (#33144426)

I guess i'll give a shot and try to get people to use my soon-to-be-totally-dead [appspot.com] web based wave client.

WTF? (-1, Troll)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 4 years ago | (#33144432)

Google stated in it's official blog

Sorry, you lost me. You've got two finite verbs in one clause there - "stated", and "is" or "has".

Replace email? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144436)

Email and electronic billing largely replaced sending letters because they are the same things, except faster and cheaper.

SMS replaced telegrams because it is the same thing except faster and cheaper and more private.

HTML emails, MMS:es and various forms of online photo services are replacing postcards because they do the same thing as postcards, except faster and cheaper.

Google Wave cannot replace any of these things because it doesn't really do these things. Google Wave, if it had been developed further, might possibly have become something useful, but it is not a replacement for some old technology.

Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcasm) (1, Interesting)

zeigerpuppy (607730) | about 4 years ago | (#33144442)

Google bought Etherpad and Jotspotlive, two very advanced implementations of real time collaborative editing (albeit without some of the extra features of wave). Can we please have them back Google? I was about to buy a decently priced server version of etherpad just before the buyout, and I thought, OK maybe with Google's open framework they can do it better and give us a nice server/client package. I have lost trust in Google, I think the Wave was too innovative for them, it allowed data to stay on separate servers, perhaps Google wanted more control over our data than that model allowed. If Google has any decency about this, they should at least opensource the full web client implementation so that we can continue development. There are many enlightened sysadmins that saw the potential of Wave but could not use it because it was non functional without a locally installed client for intranets. So Google has killed two good projects to bring us..... almost nothing Oh well... back to Moonedit for now, prove me wrong Google...

Re:Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcas (3, Informative)

Stan Vassilev (939229) | about 4 years ago | (#33144638)

Thanks Google for aquiring and killing!

I entirely agree with your sentiment. We've watched over the years Microsoft turn into what they hate (IBM), and now we get to watch Google turn into what they hate (Microsoft). That said, if you want Etherpad on your own server, Etherpad's full open source code [google.com] is available.

Fucking Stupid Karma Whores (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144726)

"We've watched over the years Microsoft turn into what they hate (IBM), and now we get to watch Google turn into what they hate (Microsoft)."

No wonder Slashdot has been left in the dust by the other major social media sites with the same stupid karma whores jerking each other off day after day.

Re:Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcas (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 4 years ago | (#33144836)

I'm not sure Microsoft hated IBM. Some people who used Microsoft products might have hated IBM and projected that emotion onto Microsoft, but I think Microsoft actually wanted to be IBM. Certainly they didn't hesitate to use all of IBMs tactics and enhance them to be even worse.

Etherpad and Jotspotlive Are Garbage (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144648)

No one gives a shit about they are gone.

Re:Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcas (4, Insightful)

Americano (920576) | about 4 years ago | (#33144748)

Would this be the same Etherpad whose wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etherpad) reports that Google open-sourced the software (http://github.com/ether/pad) at the end of 2009?

Maybe the same Etherpad whose site lists a dozen or so public servers (http://etherpad.org/etherpadsites.html) which you can use to get access to the software?

Yeah, I can see why you'd be pissed that Google just killed the project and never open-sourced it. Now you can't save your company a bundle of money by installing the open-source version on your servers for free, and your only recourse is to bitch and moan about how awful Google is here on Slashdot. I seriously feel your pain, man. After going through so much effort to see if the software was still available, I can only imagine the crushing disappointment you feel now that you realize the software is gone forever, and you'll never be able to work with Etherpad ever again.

(And FFS, mods, the parent is not insightful, interesting, or even remotely relevant. It's simply bitching by a lazy person who can't be arsed to do a simple web search.)

Re:Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcas (1)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33144772)

Totally agree. We used Etherpad a lot, until we were forced into Wave. Wave was good, but Etherpad had two features we really wanted/liked that Wave lacked: line numbers, and different-text-color-per-user so you could see who typed what.

If they really did believe their "first, do no evil" mantra (which they've been ignoring of late), they would spen Etherpad back off, let it resume operations, so that the need that it filled can be, well, filled again.

Not sure what we're going to do for collaborative editing/planning now.

Re:Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcas (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144866)

The thing that really bothers me about Jotspot is Google using it as the Google Sites online editing tool. For this purpose it is crappy and Google is not putting enough work in to make it better for the purpose. There are just too many problems from trying to squeeze it into the wrong box.

Re:Thanks Google for aquiring and killing! (sarcas (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 4 years ago | (#33144964)

Google bought Etherpad and Jotspotlive, two very advanced implementations of real time collaborative editing (albeit without some of the extra features of wave). Can we please have them back Google?

Weren't those acquisitions largely for the purposes of (and the technology applied for) improving the realtime collaboration features in Google Documents and Spreadsheets?

I have lost trust in Google, I think the Wave was too innovative for them, it allowed data to stay on separate servers, perhaps Google wanted more control over our data than that model allowed.

The Google Wave protocol is hardly the only server-to-server protocol created by Google and leveraged in Google products that allows data to stay on servers outside of Google, so I doubt very much that that is the problem.

I think the problem is that an insufficient number of people were using the Wave product to continue to actively maintain it as such, not that the product offered people too much freedom to use non-Google servers.

Three things killed it (1)

jbb999 (758019) | about 4 years ago | (#33144488)

This was a few months ago so perhaps things changed - 1) It was slow and buggy and crashed a lot. It didn't work on internet explorer. 2) You couldn't use it for your ordinary email. It tried to replace it rather then extend it. 3) It was horribly confusing. It tried to do too many things but it wasn't obvious how to do any of them! But the idea was great. Hopefully something will spring up from it's ashes.

Re:Three things killed it (1)

takowl (905807) | about 4 years ago | (#33144806)

  • 1) It did get quite a bit more stable and responsive. IMHO they opened it up too early, and the early flaws put many people off.
  • 2) I've never understood this point. It was nothing like e-mail! Yes, you could have a conversation, but the power was really in using it more like an easy, private wiki, e.g. for planning a day out with a group of friends. I think the developer talk ("what would e-mail be like if it was invented today?") was misleading.
  • 3) I sort of agree that it was confusing. Specifically, they released it without any guidance on what to do with it. They did later try to remedy that with a few templates (e.g. "Brainstorm", "Task tracking"), but it was too late

Armchair pundit assessment: it was a good idea, but they made a hash of releasing it. They should have left it longer, released more polished code with more servers behind it (so that it didn't need invites), and given people an idea of how to use it. Oh, and they should have turned federation on (they still haven't). Hopefully we'll see it again in some form, especially the idea of federation.

nice concept, crappy implementation (1)

Tom (822) | about 4 years ago | (#33144528)

I really like the concept, so much in fact that I've started to write a simplified version of it for an in-game messaging service.

The problem was with the UI. The interface was crap, and beyond a certain number of postings, waves started to slow down so much it was unbearable.

It needed more way to clean out old crap and make a wave readable and useable even after having been used for a while. Hopefully, someone else will take the concept and the protocol and make it work.

No big surprise (2, Insightful)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 4 years ago | (#33144652)

Wave had a lot of cool ideas.
The problem was that it was a steaming pile of junk.

Since it was a browser-bound experience which didn't even have good functionality except in Gecko and Webkit it really didn't have all that much going for it.
Inefficient interface, really steep system requirements and not enough actually useful stuff to counter the disadvantages.

Also, even without allt the problems it had, it was just another form of communication without any hook to actually use it daily.

Remember, even if a service is technically superior to what it is supposed to be replacing, that alone is definitely not enough, you need something else (if I knew what apart from symptoms I'd be rich beyond imagination).
Also, if a service is inferior in speed it means it's a pain to use, and, with the market slowly realizing that you need to accept that there are slow computers on it wave really didn't fit, not only should every form of communication work on a netbook, but these days it even needs to work on a bloody cell phone.

So, yeah, bloatware with few real places where it could be used to good effect doesn't gain critical mass?
No big surprise.

Expecting rapid adoption... (5, Insightful)

blahplusplus (757119) | about 4 years ago | (#33144680)

... of something like google wave given the ineptitude of the masses is idiotic, something that would replace email/IM is going to take time to build (like on the order of decades). Why are companies trying to get an "instant win"? This lack of effort is disturbing. If it's not adopted immediately an din large numbers it's suddenly niche and a flop?

Buzz next? (4, Insightful)

sugarmotor (621907) | about 4 years ago | (#33144730)

Is Google Buzz next to go ?

Re:Buzz next? (1)

mutherhacker (638199) | about 4 years ago | (#33144898)

probably.

I was right. (0, Troll)

KliX (164895) | about 4 years ago | (#33144754)

Fucking stupid, fucking useless and nobody will use it. Said just after I tried my first wave out.

Why was I right?

Because it was a terrible bit of software, in both concept (nobody wants collaboration at that level - if they did every content creation desktop app would do it), and in implementation.

Just awful.

Re:I was right. (1)

sugarmotor (621907) | about 4 years ago | (#33144852)

You want to try out embargolink next time ?

The clue is in "computer science" (2, Insightful)

gilgongo (57446) | about 4 years ago | (#33144830)

If you read TFA, is says things like "we want to drive breakthroughs in computer science that dramatically improve our users’ lives" and "we are proud of the team for the ways in which they have pushed the boundaries of computer science."

Earth to Google: a computer scientific achievement does not a user experience make.

Really. It's not that hard. Just becase you can putting together bunch of crazy-ass techno doesn't means people will flock to your door any more than I should be president of the United States if I can solve a Rubuik's cube in under 10 seconds.

Pizza-munching geeks. It's crap like Wave that reassures me in my job as a user experience designer.

Closed beta killed it (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | about 4 years ago | (#33144934)

Why have a huge announcement and generate the buzz and then not let anyone use it? I signed up the first day after they announced it because I thought it might make a cool tool for my dev team, which tends to be remote most of the time. I didn't hear anything back for a while and then just kind of forgot about it. Part of their user adoption problem might just be the fact they didn't let anyone try it.

Re:Closed beta killed it (2, Interesting)

cowscows (103644) | about 4 years ago | (#33145000)

Closed beta, plus when you finally found someone with an invite to give you, then you'd still have to wait for a few days for some reason. What did they need those three days for? Were they doing background checks on me? Did they have one stressed out intern entering all the invitees' email addresses into a database? I was excited when one of my buddies offered me the invite, but by the time I actually got to sign up, much of that excitement had already passed.

Dumb Move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33144966)

They should have at least give integration with gmail and google chat a try be shutting it down. I kept waiting and waiting to use Google Wave with e-mail but that never happened.

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