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Microsoft Losing Big To Apple On Campus

kdawson posted more than 3 years ago | from the apple-for-the-student dept.

Education 764

destinyland writes "Apple is closing in on Microsoft's share of operating systems among the computers of incoming freshmen at the University of Virginia, confirming earlier reports of an ongoing trend. A yearly survey shows that among 3,156 freshman who own computers, Microsoft's share is just 56% (down 6%), with Apple's share rising to 43% (up 6%), continuing a six-year pattern. In 2004, it was Microsoft 89% vs. 8% for Apple. 'It seems likely that the Mac-using students will outnumber their Windows cousins this school year,' notes one technology blog, citing a new study showing that 70 percent of college freshman are choosing the Mac. Other interesting data from the Virginia study: In 1997, 26% of incoming freshmen said they didn't own a computer, a number which has now dropped to 0. Laptops now comprise 99% of the computer population. And Linux use has dropped from a high of 2.5% in 2004 to a rounding error this year."

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764 comments

LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Insightful)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175678)

Linux dropped to a rounding error? Really??

Maybe those running Linux didn't want to goto jail for knowing how to use a hacker OS with that scary black screen and gray text mode or maybe this article is full of shit.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (4, Insightful)

Andorin (1624303) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175712)

I agree. Call it fanboyism, but I do not think Linux is such a terrible operating system that it would see no use whatsoever, or practically so. Perhaps more colleges are requiring certain software that's Windows- and/or Mac-only. Perhaps there's been an increase in multimedia design students, for which I understand a Mac is best. But Linux is a pretty decent OS on its own merits, and it's free- something that ought to appeal to poor starving college students.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (5, Funny)

nacturation (646836) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175768)

Perhaps there's been an increase in multimedia design students, for which I understand a Mac is best.

Perhaps the decrease in Windows use is due to a drop in enrollment for spreadsheet classes, for which I understand a PC is best.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175844)

FYI: Macs are PCs by definition.

I know the average Mac user doesn't actually know how to use a computer, but the concept of "personal computer" is really not even remotely technical or hard.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Funny)

zhong-guo (1872764) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175882)

So you can't see the TV ads with Mac and PC. Macs runs Macs. PC run the windows, you know, microsoft??? You so stupid, when god gave brains, he gives you the turnip.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175890)

Wouldn't that make god the stupid one? He's the one who can't tell the difference between a brain and a turnip.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Funny)

zhong-guo (1872764) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175932)

bu shi, he runs out of brains, only turnips left. AHAHAHAHAH Sorry, turnip brain!

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (-1, Troll)

V!NCENT (1105021) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176046)

I don't know if you're sarcastic, but I can't stand the stupidity of your comment.

PC stands for Personal Computer, which was an IBM Personal Computer series model and it ran IBM_Cassette_BASIC.

Then later the IBM PC compatible clones came. Later on they stopped being hardware compatible, but since everything was written for DOS anyway, they became DOS compatible instead. Later on DOS turned to Windows and firmware turned to drivers.

All was written to run om Intel and AMD CPU's and finaly Apple trown in the towel and started to ship Intel powered computers.

So Apple computers powered by Intel CPU's are simply PC's too.

Please die.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (3, Insightful)

raving griff (1157645) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175770)

and it's free- something that ought to appeal to poor starving college students.

Most college students purchase a computer before their freshman year and intend it to last throughout their entire four year program. That means they are still at home, still largely unphased by the costs of college, and living far more dependently on their parents' income than they will on campus.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175880)

>>>That means they are still at home, still largely unphased by the costs of college

Good point. A former teacher just asked my recommendation for her college-bound kid. I searched the advertisements and said, "Here's a nice HP laptop for $350, or you can get the better Toshiba with double the RAM for $450. Both hav the latest Windows 7 OS." Well my ex-teacher followed my advice but her kid had a fit and insisted she "had" to have a MacBook...... they ended-up spending $1500.

Kids don't care if they drive their parents into bankruptcy. Or whether or not they can get Linux for free. They want what they want, regardless of cost. ----- (Oh and don't give me crap about Macs being better - the $1500 model actually had 1 GB less memory and 500 megahertz slower speed than the $450 Toshiba laptop.)

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175952)

Well you're either lying or simply mistaken.

http://apple.com/store [apple.com]

Choose the macbook. Add all the internal upgrades (RAM, HDD)

And it's not even close to $1,500. Not to mention as a teacher (and with her daughter being a student) they'd be entitled to a fairly big discount, at least 15% when I bought mine.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176000)

I'm not lying but maybe the teacher was - SHE'S the one who said it cost her $1500.

The cheapest MacBook is still $1000..... still a hell of a lot more than $350 or $450 for the WIN7 machine. Way overpriced. Why buy an Acura when a Honda is just as good (and made by the same company besides)?

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (-1, Troll)

Councilor Hart (673770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176022)

If you take the software into account, then there is a huge difference between both systems.

Windows = crap

Mac OS X is pretty decent and you get a bunch of fully functional apps right out of the box.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175898)

How does that explain why Apple gains market share over time?

My theory is that people have been tired of Windows for a long time, but the alternatives used to be crap. Since Apple switched to using compatible processors and began improving their OS, people have begun to see the Mac as an alternative.

Linux distributions such as Ubuntu are also beginning to surface as a good alternative, but they are far from there yet and you still get what you pay for, either with your hard-earned (cough, cough) money or with your time. Many of the default applications in Ubuntu 10.04 are quite deficient and it's not completely trivial to find and install all the good applications. Installing Ubuntu and finding applications that work well is a time-consuming and confusing process that you don't need during your first few weeks at college.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Insightful)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175984)

Yeah, those college freshmen at age 18 really went through the rocky years of personal computing with win95 and earlier. : / (no)

College freshmen buy macs because they are hip and pretty. And they are hip (when is the last time you saw a PC in a movie?), and they are pretty.

And i guess you missed the article last? week that detailed OSX losing market share this year.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

espressojim (224775) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176018)

Yeah, I agree. That's why at my job, everyone has a macbook pro for software development, because only a young kid would like it.

No, the reason macbooks are becomming so popular with THINKING ADULTS is the build quality on the macbooks is excellent, and you'd pay a lot of money to move beyond the fragile, hinges-breaking crappy ass plastic that you buy on your cheap-as-shit will break in 9 months disposable notebook. You can also dual boot to linux, if you need to sustain your fragile ego, but OSX runs a different variant of unix perfectly fine, and has a nice GUI on top of it.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

daedae (1089329) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175904)

Nah... here at UVA they're living equally dependently on their parents' income all four years. At least.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175812)

Unfortunately, A lot of schools require installation of some sort of nagware or other monitoring software to help keep malware off the campus network by dropping infected or unprotected systems. Of course, these nanny-ware programs never support Linux, so getting your Linux-based laptop working well enough to be useful on campus can be a huge pain in the ass. I know it was a challenge for me. :\

As for the increase in Mac market share... these are college students, people who are often still living on their parents' dime and have a disproportionate amount of disposable income. Also, there is a high concentration of yuppie and hipster types. That's a thriving Apple habitat if I ever saw one.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175850)

>>>I do not think Linux is such a terrible operating system that it would see no use whatsoever

Maybe it is being used, but the students checked "Windows" because that's the primary OS installed on their machine? I'm surrpsied how far Mac has come. When I visited Penn State 1.5 years ago, I went to all the old Mac labs but they no longer existed. Everything had been converted to IBM PC compatibles. Ditto another local college which had just 6 Macs on the whole campus (located in the music building).

So it surprises me that colleges have seemingly gone 100% PC when their own students are choosing a 50-50 split.
I wonder why the schools no longer have Mac labs as they had in the 90s?

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175934)

I went to Virginia Tech in the mid-1990s, and they didn't have computer labs even back then. Engineering students were required to buy their own (PC-compatible) computer. They did have a small UNIX lab, however, for VHDL classes.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175936)

So it surprises me that colleges have seemingly gone 100% PC when their own students are choosing a 50-50 split.
I wonder why the schools no longer have Mac labs as they had in the 90s?

Given the cost of Macs and so many universities crying about budget deficits, I'm not surprised at all. The fact they are still using Windows and crying poor does surprise me, though.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33176014)

The computer science department at my school actually uses fedora linux exclusively. I don't kjonw if the math department does to, but I do know that they have a ton of computers with fedora on them.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176038)

The fact they are still using Windows and crying poor does surprise me, though.

AFAICS MSDNAA is dirt cheap.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

WeatherGod (1726770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176054)

Ah, so you didn't head over to the Walker Building on the 5th floor and check out the Meteorology Department's computer lab? Mix of Macs and Linux PCs with Windows available in a VM?

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

WeatherGod (1726770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176068)

Sorry, 6th floor...

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175956)

I wonder how much of it varies by college. This study was done at UVA, which isn't really a tech school. I wonder if the Linux numbers are higher at their rival Virginia Tech, or the other big tech schools like Georgia Tech, RPI, etc.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Interesting)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175966)

Thats the most likely answer. That schools require software that can only run on Windows or Mac. It's as common as requiring a textbook but they do not realize the politics of their decision in not allowing an equally suitable software substitute on alternative OS's.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176086)

Perhaps there's been an increase in multimedia design students, for which I understand a Mac is best.

As a professional graphic designer and hobbyist film director, I've never understood the notion that Macs are better at such projects. Equal? Perhaps in a lot of ways. Inherently better all around? Not a chance. Photoshop on the Mac is pretty laughable, if nothing else.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175720)

Great argument you've got there. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm convinced. According to me, Linux has a market share of 46% of all incoming freshman at U of VA.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0, Troll)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175750)

Great argument you've got there. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm convinced. According to me, Linux has a market share of 46% of all incoming freshman at U of VA.

soooo you really believe that no one in college uses Linux? And you're trying to mock me? Jesus Christ your a fucktard, I mean apple fan-boy, sorry...

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175906)

No students at a particular university? Sure, that's not that hard to believe. If any do, it's probably less than 30 students total, or as the article puts it, within error range.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175996)

That would be "you're a fucktard," you fucktard. How many freshmen are going to give up their iTunes to run Linux? You lost the battle for the desktop - get over it!

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0, Troll)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175724)

Someone please set this article to trollbait or impressionsgenerator..

O and if you're an advertiser and are paying slashdot you're a fucking imbecile, no one here will ever buy your crap because we saw a pop-up (which none of us ever see BTW)

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175948)

I have ABP disabled for this page and still see no ads. I can't imagine your karma being that good, though. ;)

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0, Flamebait)

dangitman (862676) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175778)

Maybe those running Linux didn't want to goto jail

I would think that those running Linux would be smart enough to avoid a GOTO routine.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175792)

Linux dropped to a rounding error? Really??

That's essentially where Linux stands in the July stats from Net Applications. The iPhone at 0.7%. Linux, all flavors, at 0.9%. Operating System Market Share [netmarketshare.com]

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175798)

Depends on how they're counting the installs - notice that they ask in the survey about their "primary" OS... so dual-boots would likely translate to "Windows", since they'd use that on their non-mac computers for the majority of their actual schoolwork (read: Office docs, especially those ending in *.docx, *.xlsx, and such).

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175960)

Then they haven't heard of OOo which can read docx just fine (thought it can't write to it, yet).

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (5, Insightful)

TheRecklessWanderer (929556) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175854)

It amazes me that people can take one small piece of data and extrapolate so much from it. Incoming freshmen from one university. So what? If it really was news, it would be at all campuses around the US (or North America, or the world for that matter). Rage on MacBois

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175860)

Colleges sell themselves to the devil. The college my daughter goes to did. I had a hell of a time trying to use linux with the online courses. They required you to buy MS Office. Funny thing is my daughter tried to submit a paper online to the professor in Word but he couldn't read it. I had to open it up in Open Office on a linux box then write it in doc format. He was then able to read it. Another professor wanted submissions on floppy. Had to buy a usb floppy drive for my daughter's laptop.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175970)

Another professor wanted submissions on floppy. Had to buy a usb floppy drive for my daughter's laptop.

Seems like someone enjoys their tenure. Wow. Needs to be on a floppy? I'd buy some usb sticks and see if he'd accept that. I mean, it's practically the same thing (except, you know, USB sticks are actually used today while floppies, well you know, aren't (except by him!)).

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175994)

Maybe you should have done more research about the college before letting your daughter go there. Or if she insisted, let her pay for it and figure out the IT stuff herself.

Re:LINUX rounds numbers fine (2, Insightful)

camperslo (704715) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175990)

Perhaps the headline should be "PC Vendors Losing Big To Apple On Campus".

Surveys dealing with what kind of hardware people buy or plan to buy may not even ask what OS will be used, or if more than one OS will be installed. Certainly there are some people using Macs with more than one OS, but the share totals don't add up to more than 100% proving my point.

I think if a little effort were made to educate students to some of the advantages of Linux, many of those with PCs would at least add it to not be totally dead in the water if/when malware kills Windows. Linux certainly could be useful to more people than have it installed already, whatever the numbers. What's the best way to get the message to students?

A trend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175684)

of self-entitling, coddled youth?

USA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175686)

I bet this is mostly an american phenomenon.

Degeneration (and general baseline stupidity) is strongest in that corner of the planet. "And Linux use has dropped from a high of 2.5% in 2004 to a rounding error this year" proves this.

America, enjoy your technological ass getting kicked by Europe and Asia 2016 onwards.

Re:USA (1)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175998)

Where do -you- think that the majority of both Linux and Apple operating systems are developed?

Wait... (2, Interesting)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175688)

...don't they know that Steve Jobs wants to control their lives?

Joking aside, I wonder how much that market share number changes when you look at the mobile market. I'd bet 95% of incoming students have cell phones of one type or another. I'd also bet that Windows-based mobile phones are probably near zero percent, with iPhone and Android sharing the lion's share of the market, but it'd be interesting to see what those numbers are for college students as compared to the outside world.

Easy to CLAIM, oh so unlikely to see PROVEN !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175696)

Notice how these just come out of thin air? It's on the blogs too, where there are organized cheerleaders stuffing ballots and blogs. Sort of desperate if I do say so myself.

Re:Easy to CLAIM, oh so unlikely to see PROVEN !! (1)

Your.Master (1088569) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175942)

Thin air? Stuffed ballots? These claims come out of a census of first-year students who live in residence. Use real arguments next time.

Useless Computers, Useless Degrees (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175700)

Most of these Apple using students will soon find out that their degrees are as useless as they themselves are.

Business??

pffff. Have fun waiting tables.

Re:Useless Computers, Useless Degrees (2, Interesting)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175756)

Oh and Windows skills are in shortage?

I'd sooner be proficient in a Unix based OS and know some really sought after skills than simply know only Windows.

Owning a Mac or using a Linux machine means you get exposure to Windows and OSX/Linux since Windows boxes are unavoidable.

Re:Useless Computers, Useless Degrees (4, Insightful)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176008)

Great! So owning a Mac not only makes me better at high level computer work (not just Mac repair), but it ALSO makes me better an UNIX AND Windows at the same time! What a magical product.

damn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175704)

so much for the year of the linux desktop :(

Re:damn (2, Funny)

Second_Derivative (257815) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175786)

It is the year of Linux on the desktop if you count smartphones as desktops

Oblig Simpons quote (2, Insightful)

jmcbain (1233044) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175706)

Linux use has dropped from a high of 2.5% in 2004 to a rounding error this year.

Paraphrasing Principal Skinner: Why, there are no children using Linux, either! Am I so out of touch? (pauses to think) No, it's the children who are wrong.

jobless numbers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175710)

In an unrelated story, the number of unemployable students due to lack of PC experience rises to 43%.

Now we wait (1)

HRbnjR (12398) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175714)

Now we just have to wait for the generation of programmers educated/weaned on MS tools to die off, and we're good :)

Re:Now we wait (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175832)

Wouldn't it be easier to just watch them adapt?

I'm sure the majority of COBOL and FORTRAN programmers back in the '70s and '80s are still alive today, after all...

Re:Now we wait (1)

emt377 (610337) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175914)

Now we just have to wait for the generation of programmers educated/weaned on MS tools to die off, and we're good :)

Which will probably happen sooner than many think if Windows loses market share. PCs and Windows is something you program not because you like working with them, but because someone pays you to do so and you're in need of money. People who aren't very adept and productive programmers tend to escape to engineering management or bizdev at first opportunity, and these tend to be people who have only experience with Windows and don't really think of programming as a craft. They will simply be unable to change and for this reason Windows programming will be as quickly forgotten among mainstream programmers as cobol.

Frist Post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175726)

iFirst astroturf check! win! calling the herd, check! lets smear our iSmug on this poor subhuman linux dudes. GOGOGOGO!

Unfortunately, it turns out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175740)

That 90% of the people answering that they used Apple were talking about their cellphones and MP3 players.

I'm surprised at this... (1, Flamebait)

vsage3 (718267) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175744)

... considering Apple does not even offer Macbooks with core i3's. You must get core i5 or i7 and pay out the wazoo (to the tune of $1700+) for it or else you're stuck with core 2 duo's, as far as I know. Then again, UVa is not a tech school and so I don't expect many of their incoming class to know or care. Meanwhile, my $500 dollar laptop from a local store 4 years ago still runs AutoCAD 2010 just fine with a $40 RAM upgrade.

Re:I'm surprised at this... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175820)

... considering Apple does not even offer Macbooks with core i3's. You must get core i5 or i7 and pay out the wazoo (to the tune of $1700+) for it or else you're stuck with core 2 duo's, as far as I know. Then again, UVa is not a tech school and so I don't expect many of their incoming class to know or care. Meanwhile, my $500 dollar laptop from a local store 4 years ago still runs AutoCAD 2010 just fine with a $40 RAM upgrade.

Not everyone's primary concern is finding a cheap computer. Apple has always shied away from bottom feeding and releasing cheap computers. The real telling one would be to find out how much of the Microsoft percentage went with them over price. If 3/4 of the Microsoft camp went that way over price then the numbers may be heavily slanted for Mac already.

Re:I'm surprised at this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175974)

Mmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmm... A core 2 duo will spend 90+% of it's life WAITING ON THE USER.
a core i3/5/7 won't wait any faster. Seriously- they watch videos, listen to music, and (maybe) write papers. Gaming isconsole, so why spend extra for a "larger" processor?

Wouldn't be surprised (5, Insightful)

lyinhart (1352173) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175752)

I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. This generation of Freshmen went through high school using iPods and iPhones, which serve as "gateway drugs" to Apple's PCs. Plus laptops are supposedly more popular than desktops, especially among college students and Apple's laptops tend to be highly rated in the media. Plus, there's that sweet deal of getting a free iPod with the purchase of an Apple laptop for education... I'm with George Burns from back in the day. Ah, to be 18 again.

linus best of breed, gets 0 play? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175760)

no marketing. figures skewed to exclude entire internet os. it's not hard to see why fuddles is being abandoned. it might be as mr. stallman says (not an exact quote); people are too lazy/busy to bother to learn anything new, even if it's better for them/everybody in the long term.

meanwhile (at least time enough to reflect); creators to repair planet/atmosphere. population? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, @06:21AM (#33135678)
save for the rescue of several billion innocents, everything else will be 'different'. see you there?

meanwhile (hard to know how long); the corepirate nazi illuminati is always hunting that patch of red on almost everyones' neck. if they cannot find yours (greed, fear ego etc...) then you can go starve. that's their (slippery/slimy) 'platform' now. see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

never a better time to consult with/trust in our creators. the lights are coming up rapidly all over now. see you there?

greed, fear & ego (in any order) are unprecedented evile's primary weapons. those, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' life0cidal hired goons' agenda. most of our dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'wars', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid schemes. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & any notion of prosperity for us, or our children. not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one, & the terminal damage to our atmosphere (see also: manufactured 'weather', hot etc...). see you on the other side of it? the lights are coming up all over now. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be your guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. we now have some choices. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on your brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

"The current rate of extinction is around 10 to 100 times the usual background level, and has been elevated above the background level since the Pleistocene. The current extinction rate is more rapid than in any other extinction event in earth history, and 50% of species could be extinct by the end of this century. While the role of humans is unclear in the longer-term extinction pattern, it is clear that factors such as deforestation, habitat destruction, hunting, the introduction of non-native species, pollution and climate change have reduced biodiversity profoundly.' (wiki)

"I think the bottom line is, what kind of a world do you want to leave for your children," Andrew Smith, a professor in the Arizona State University School of Life Sciences, said in a telephone interview. "How impoverished we would be if we lost 25 percent of the world's mammals," said Smith, one of more than 100 co-authors of the report. "Within our lifetime hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions, a frightening sign of what is happening to the ecosystems where they live," added Julia Marton-Lefevre, IUCN director general. "We must now set clear targets for the future to reverse this trend to ensure that our enduring legacy is not to wipe out many of our closest relatives."--

"The wealth of the universe is for me. Every thing is explicable and practical for me .... I am defeated all the time; yet to victory I am born." --emerson

no need to confuse 'religion' with being a spiritual being. our soul purpose here is to care for one another. failing that, we're simply passing through (excess baggage) being distracted/consumed by the guaranteed to fail illusionary trappings of man'kind'. & recently (about 10,000 years ago) it was determined that hoarding & excess by a few, resulted in negative consequences for all.

consult with/trust in your creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." )one does not need to agree whois in charge to grasp the notion that there may be some assistance available to us(

boeing, boeing, gone.

So, does this mean... (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175764)

Apple is now the big man on campus?

Maybe at U of V... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175774)

Maybe it's like that at U of V, but being a college student myself I only know 2 people who own macs, either at the local community college where a bunch of my friends are or at the tech school I go to. Linux is more common there than macs are..

Office (1)

tomz16 (992375) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175782)

Which is going to suck extra hard for them given what a complete disaster Microsoft Office for the Mac is!

(iWork is marginally better for some things, but in my experience both MacOffice and iWork suffer from various glaring compatibility problems with Windows Office!)

Re:Office (2, Informative)

JamesA (164074) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175864)

I thought serious students used http://www.lyx.org/ [lyx.org] ?

Re:Office (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176066)

I'm sorry, but are you smoking crack?

I've used Mac Office in mixed environments for years and years, the current Mac Office works just fine with the current Windows Office.

Surprisingly result (3, Interesting)

Manip (656104) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175796)

Interesting result. Certainly isn't the case at my local University. I do wonder about the demographic of the surveyed college? For example are they fairly wealthy? I cannot imagine students around here even being able to buy a Mac Book, you see many more cheap Dells, HPs, and Acers. You also see a lot of people who don't own laptops at all and certainly don't bring them to classes. Also very odd how few of the students owned a desktop... With it claiming that tons own two or more laptops but only a small selection owning a laptop AND desktop. Again, locally many students here have a desktop in their room and no laptop at all (which is largely down to how cheap desktops are). As I said, I am deeply curious how rich these kids are.

Re:Surprisingly result (3, Insightful)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175954)

UVA is a state school, but is sometimes called the "public Ivy" (Bobby and Ted Kennedy both went to law school there after Harvard). UVA and William & Marry cater more to the polo shirt and pearl set crowd than other state schools here like VCU, ODU, etc, which are more what one would consider "public".

Everyone I know that went to UVA came from a fairly well-to-do background, or had insane amounts of financial aid. A couple of my friends had full-ride scholarships + stipends for undergraduate to UVA.

I would be surprised if more than 10% of the students there couldn't afford a Mac if they wanted one.

Not really (3, Informative)

DesScorp (410532) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175978)

Interesting result. Certainly isn't the case at my local University. I do wonder about the demographic of the surveyed college? For example are they fairly wealthy? ...

As I said, I am deeply curious how rich these kids are.

UVa is a so-called "public Ivy". It's consistently rated in national Top 25 rankings every single year. Its competitors are schools like the Ivy's, U. of Chicago, the big 3 in California, Northwestern, etc. They're as selective as any Ivy, and so they're attracting the same kind of affluent students. There have been some complaints in the state of Virginia that UVa prefers out of state "stars" to some of its own better students (whether or not that's actually true, I don't know). But most UVa students, academic-wise and income-wise, wouldn't be out of place in any Ivy school. UVa has more in common with Brown or Dartmouth than they do with, say, Penn State.

Re:Surprisingly result (5, Funny)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176084)

Interesting result. Certainly isn't the case at my local University.

Bellevue Community College isn't a University... it's a Microsoft Outreach program.

Maybe it's the hardware.. (5, Interesting)

brxndxn (461473) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175826)

You can run Windows on a Mac when you need.. But if you buy a Mac for the better hardware specs, you might as well play with the Mac OS - which you'll find runs smoother on Mac laptops than any Windows-based laptop I have seen. Just try the touchpad on the newest Mac laptop and you'll see it is far superior to any touchpad on any Windows laptop available now.

Seriously.. the laptops available for Windows fucking suck. They're shit. They're all shit since IBM sold Thinkpad to Lenovo. Dell makes shit. HP makes shit. The consumer 'Best Buy' laptops are shiny shit. The 'enterprise' class laptops are flimsy shit. Nothing available holds a candle to any of the Mac laptops in terms of hardware. They're all too thick or flimsy or get too hot. The only thing Mac is missing that would allow it to take over the enterprise is a docking station (probably because that's against Steve Job's whackjob religion.)

Show me a Windows laptop with hardware that can hold a candle to Mac's current lineup, and I'll buy one. I'm currently using a Dell M4400 and I think it's a flimsy piece of crap that has a formfactor as usable as a potato chip and somehow it gets good reviews. I don't own any Macs - but other developers I work with use them.

Oh ya.. and Windows 7 is a crappy OS that just happens to be less crappy than Vista.

It's really sad.. I went from being the biggest nerd in the world that had to have every latest and greatest gadget to being the most jaded. Every new electronic device from cell phones to laptops is missing features I used to have with an old device. At least Mac is making an attempt to introduce higher quality with newer devices. Every other company is racing to offer the cheapest piece of Chinese shit they can find.

If I haven't affended you a little, it's because I spent so little effort in my rant. Am I the only one that is completely annoyed by the lack of technological progression in consumer electronic devices - both hardware, software, and everything else that has to do with them?

Re:Maybe it's the hardware.. (2, Interesting)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175910)

I agree to a point.

Why is it so hard for a windows laptop maker to make a laptop that looks and feels decent, with decent battery life? Every laptop in Best Buy is full of cheap stickers and made of crappy plastic.

I know the oversized trackpad is patented by Apple, and that sucks, but how hard is it to get the other things correct?

I do disagree about the operating systems though. I find Win7 to be way ahead of OSX in terms of usability. There are problems, and i have bitches, but I tried OSX for a week, and had a TON more complaints. For example, opening a picture in a folder to look at it, then there is no way to view the next picture in the folder. There are no "next/previous" buttons, the arrow keys don't work, i couldn't figure out how to do it, save closing the window and opening the next picture manually. I have asked a couple of people that i know use macs about this, and they have either said they open (load) them all at the start, or they say they just close / open each picture individually. Now, there might be a way to do this, but it sure isn't intuitive, and (anecdotally) not a lot of mac users know it. This by itself blows away all the "small" gripes i have about windows7. (no default support for multi monitor taskbars, to name one)

Re:Maybe it's the hardware.. (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175982)

Did you open the image in Preview? If so then you "Opened" the picture. No different than opening something in Photoshop and not being able to scroll through photos in the same directory.

So you can either Select All and open in preview, then tab through them OR hit spacebar to pop up the 'quick view' dialog and scroll through everything that way (doesn't just do images).

What gets me is than in Windows 7 you STILL can't open a folder in the trash. Mac has had this since I started using it in 1994 and I think Gnome does too.

Drag folder to trash. Realize you need one file out of that folder. In Windows 7 double clicking on the folder only brings up useless information such as "when you deleted this" and "where was this folder originally". OPEN THE ()@# FOLDER.

Re:Maybe it's the hardware.. (4, Informative)

uglyduckling (103926) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176058)

I don't know if you're trolling or just inept. There's at least three different ways to do what you describe. In three column view (selected with the [ | | ] button at the top of the Finder window) the picture thumbnail will show in the right-hand column. The second option is to use Coverflow (the button to the right of the three column button) and preview your pictures that way. The third is to select all the files (cmd+a) then open in preview, and use the next/previous buttons in there. Not identical to Windows, but three very good options, all of which seem pretty intuitive to me.

Re:Maybe it's the hardware.. (0, Flamebait)

inKubus (199753) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175924)

The thing is the quality isn't that much better. They're using the same CPU chips, the same crappy hard drives, etc. The reason it runs smoother is you have no choice for peripherals. It's still a commodity computer, and they are charging way more for the brand and the external design. This is classic monopolistic competition in a standardized market. Apple is using different branding to make you think their stuff is a superior good and therefore better. And journalists as well. I use a Mac at work, as well as windows and linux boxes. I have a Macbook pro and iphone provided by work. In my experience, these things do not "just work". We had about 1 in 5 hard drives die within the first year for 50 aluminum imacs. And you have to wait weeks for replacement unless you want to remove the glass and around 30 screws, which we do normally to save money. We also have an Xserve and AFP (their filesharing protocol) did not work until 10.6. Time machine is now broken in 10.6 with ACLs (needed on a corporate network). Not a word from Apple support, not a single comment on the forums, as the users become increasingly enraged. Samba client doesn't respect unix ACLs. I can't list all the damn problems we've had with compatibility. And none of the tools work across versions. For instance, server tools for 10.6 only run on 10.6 desktops. There are millions of these issues. This is just a bubble, don't worry. When I went to school a decade ago, Apple had those candy colored imacs that were popular with the homos. I'm sure people will realize soon enough they are massively overpaying just like they do at abercrombie for a 10 cent made-in-china t-shirt selling for 39.95.

Re:Maybe it's the hardware.. (1)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176090)

Seriously.. the laptops available for Windows fucking suck. They're shit. They're all shit since IBM sold Thinkpad to Lenovo. Dell makes shit. HP makes shit.

Aren't much of a Mac's guts made by the same companies that make the guts for the likes of Dell?

Good thing (4, Insightful)

slasho81 (455509) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175840)

This is a good thing. Not because Apple is better than Microsoft but because the diversity of operating systems will lead to more portable designs of software which will eventually free us from specific OS dependency altogether.

Re:Good thing (1)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176042)

If only we could try and make a language that works regardless of operating environment. . . .

I'm looking forward to the Microsoft advert (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175848)

where a jiggy blonde, chased by white-clad storm troopers runs down aisles of vacant-faced youths who are staring at the image of Steve Jobs on a huge screen above their heads. He is mouthing off something about the primacy of the Apple Way. She spins around, the hammer in her outstretched hands flickering in the harsh light from the screen. The camera tracks the hammer in slo-mo as it arcs towards the screen, impacting between Jobs eyes in a brilliant flash of energy...

What do you mean, its been done before?

99% Laptops? (1)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175852)

I am surprised if this number is accurate.

Based on my anecdotal evidence from Texas A&M University, the % of desktops are around 30-40. People like to control their TVs, play video games, and download gigs and gigs of music and videos. Many people that come to school with a laptop switch to a desktop sophomore or junior year, due to the above reasons plus they realize that their laptop never leaves their desk, due to the vast number of 24/7 computer labs on campus.

Private High Schools too (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175858)

Recently the private school my daughter goes to went 100% Macbooks and servers. Support and forced upgrade costs pushed the IT department to draw a line in the sand and decreed absolutely no MS allowed (except for Office).

Of course it's a double-edged sword. There's higher upfront costs but the TCO is greatly lowered through IT not having to deal with the all the problems related to using Microsoft software. And switching from one monopoly with crappy products to another potential monopoly with ok products is to be debated.

But personally I'm willing to pony up the extra money for the Macbook instead of a cheaper Dell. Mainly because the higher costs of using Microsoft products has greatly increased operating costs for the school over the last 8 years. Which is passed on as tuition increases so this is a long-term solution. Dumping MS in this case is essentially an investment.

Re:Private High Schools too (1)

vcgodinich (1172985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175938)

Yeah, it's well known that Mac servers have a great ROI. -cough- -cough-

My question is why you think that macs have a less forced upgrade cost?

Re:Private High Schools too (1)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176002)

Apple has always dominated the K-12 school market. What's new here is that students themselves are often choosing Apple over Microsoft, at least in the case of those who were surveyed.

And switching from one monopoly with crappy products to another potential monopoly with ok products is to be debated.

Microsoft (a software company) has a near-total monopoly on the PC OS market, while Apple (a hardware company) has an absolutely total monopoly on the Apple-compatible computer market and is quite litigious about getting rid of its competitors.

Statistics are sometimes skewed for convenience... (2, Informative)

IQgryn (1081397) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175870)

At IIT (the Illinois one, not the one in India), the tech department didn't collect this sort of data. But if they had, they would've thought I ran one Windows machine instead of two Linux boxes, because they didn't know Linux and would not help me get the network going unless I told them I was running a single Windows or Mac computer. I ended up getting all the network settings for Windows and putting them in the right place myself, and hiding both systems behind a router. Several of my friends had similar experiences.

I will note that many of my professors, especially in the CS department, used Linux almost exclusively, and some actually would not accept Microsoft Office documents (they allowed pdfs and sometimes OpenOffice documents). There was just a huge disconnect between the people in charge of the student portion of the network and the rest of the campus.

Agreed, we're seeing this too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175874)

I work in a University IT shop and we've seen trend the past few years as well. It looks like we'll be approaching a 50-50 split this year.

College students. (0, Troll)

HomoErectusDied4U (1042552) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175876)

Loads of disposable income because of student loans. No concept of value because they've never had a real job. No desire to be the kid with the Dell when everyone else has a shiny Mac, including the elitist effete instructor. Sounds like the perfect market for Apple!

Why? (1)

Iburnaga (1089755) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175916)

I'd like to study why freshmen are buying expensive macs rather than inexpensive everything else.

The Apple Way of Life (tm) (2, Insightful)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 3 years ago | (#33175926)

Apple sells image to its users, and image sells product to the young. Apple is cool (or whatever term kids use for "cool" these days), while PCs are not. Nevermind that Apple is even worse than Microsoft when it comes to keeping its users on a leash, because Apple computers are young and hip (or whatever terms are used for "young" and "hip" these days -- heh) and they aren't Microsoft.

PS - I wonder how long it will take Apple to lock down the Mac platform as tightly as the iPhone platform.

kids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175976)

Yup, kids are getting dumber these days.

Another reason they are less hireable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33175992)

Unfortunately this is another reason they are less employable, they are all experts with their macs and most business runs on Windows, so now they can't even work the equipment they need to use let alone their job description.

Day one on the job... This is a second mouse button!

dual boot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33176006)

my guess is that more will be running windows, but on dual boot mac laptops. I don't actually care, buy the machine that you want, but don't ask me to fix it.

Not considering dual boot, IT staff & class re (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33176040)

I'm sure they're not considering any dual booting. Also, if the support staff says "We support Windows and Mac - if you run anything else, we won't talk to you ", every
student with a dual boot system will say "Uh... yeah. Sure.. it's uh.. running windows. See?". To make matters worse, I'm sure there's
enough brainwashed profs out there telling people to "Submit this in Word .DOC format" or "do a Powerpoint" or gawd knows what as part
of the course requirements. At that rate since M$FT Office is only available on Windows and Mac, that's all you'll see registered...

Liberal = Mac (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33176064)

The University of Virginia is one of the most liberal schools in the country. If you are a liberal, you are not cool if you don't have an Apple; hence, if you got to the University of Virginia you own a Apple; hence, the statistics. They claim to be conservative but they really aren't. Sure when compared with Pelosi, sure they are more conservative. When compared with someone with conservative values, they a just another liberal. Just look at their college ranking inside the University. English Literature is their best college, ranking 12th in the country. When is the last time you heard of a conservative English Lit professor. That's right never. The rest are just a hodge podge of colleges put together just to say they have e.g. a computer science program, or some type of engineering. It will always be true, if you own an Apple you are a liberal.

When did they get any of the education market? (1)

jafo (11982) | more than 3 years ago | (#33176078)

Now, admittedly this was in high school, but back in the '80s Apple was *IT* as far as computers went. The art lab had a Mac, the math/programming lab had 8 Apple IIs with CPM, the computer lab had a dozen more Apple IIs, the physics teacher had an Apple II, and the administrative offices had a few of them (with hard drives, woo!).

The drafting class had *ONE* PC with AutoCAD or something, that the teacher wouldn't let anyone even touch. I asked to play with it, but the closest I got to it was he once asked me how to delete this file. "DEL whatever.ext". "But file names can only have 8 characters!"

Sean
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