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Larry Ellison Rips HP Board a New One

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the making-friends-every-day dept.

HP 326

theodp writes "No stranger himself to sexual harassment allegations, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison has denounced HP's directors for forcing the resignation of HP CEO Mark Hurd. 'The HP board just made the worst personnel decision since the idiots on the Apple board fired Steve Jobs many years ago,' Ellison wrote. For now, it seems that Rupert Murdoch is also standing by Hurd, who sits on News Corp's Board of Directors and its Corporate Governance Committee. Less likely to survive the scandal is Hurd's relationship with HP General Counsel Mike Holston, who accepted Hurd's signed separation agreement after leading an investigation into Hurd's actions, which Holston told the NY Times 'showed a profound lack of judgment.' Quite a change from just last year, when Hurd and Holston teamed up to get their daughters' elite prep school a state-of-the-art HP Data Center."

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Question: (2)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203554)

Does anyone know if there is hard evidence (heh) proving this guy's guilt? It would be a real shame for this to be a false accusation that destroys a man's career...

Re:Question: (3, Informative)

mandark1967 (630856) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203604)

My understanding, though I've not read about the case in depth, is that he was accused, he admitted to it, and the accuser had already worked out a resolution, then the crap hit the fan, so to speak.

Re:Question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203724)

From the *OTHER* sd article 'the investigation did uncover other misconduct'. Meaning that this was false but what the hell are you doing over here...

More than likely it was a case of 'we do not like you anymore you should move on'. Frankly would you want to keep working in an environment like that? It works for people like Jobs and Elison because they are in charge. This fellow was while 'high up' was not 100% in charge.

Re:Question: (1)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203924)

Pretty sure it would be hard to live up "undisclosed payments" from your company to a "marketing consultant" with which you had a "close personal relationship". Most of us employees want to oust our bosses over far less.

Re:Question: (0, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204266)

rumor I heard is that he ripped her a new one. Remember guys, if a girl is bent over, ass up in the air, pussy dripping wet and you "accidentally" stick it in her pooper, it's rape. A couple inches is the difference between consentual sex and criminal charges. So always ask first!

Re:Question: (4, Interesting)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203628)

According to one of my old classmates who works at HP, they've either been keeping everything really quiet, or there is no evidence. He is betting on the latter. This may just be a case of slander/libel. It does not take much for a woman to accuse a man of a crime that he did not commit and get him into heaps of trouble for it.

Happened to me in the 90s and on a much smaller scale. I was accused of groping a woman, and when the cop arrived, she couldn't even keep her story straight. The cop tried to convince her how to best make up her story in front of my face. I was arrested. When we went to court, I provided microcassette audio and a transcript of what had happened. Cop was fired, and they tried the woman for perjury. Still made my life a nightmare.

Re:Question: (4, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203816)

More common than most people realize. And thanks to feminists running around claiming that no woman has ever lied about being raped or sexually harassed, there is pretty much a presumption of guilt now for any such accusation, even if it's in the midst of a nasty divorce/custody case or if the victim has a clear financial gain in making an accusation. Just look at how those poor bastards in the Duke Lacrosse case [wikipedia.org] were publicly crucified by the likes of Gloria Alred and Nancy Grace (who never even had the decency to apologize after the case fell apart). Without decent attorneys, those guys would probably be in prison now (instead of the piece-of-shit prosecutor who railroaded them for his own political gain).

Re:Question: (4, Insightful)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203976)

To be fair, at one point it was pretty standard to put the accuser in a case like that more on trial than the accused.

Things have swung too far in the opposite direction, now, but you have to understand these things in context -- society's trying to find an appropriate equilibrium.

Re:Question: (1)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204022)

Society will never find equilibrium. It's like the oscillatory nature of everything else in existence. Swing one way, swing the other, and never remain static. It's a simple model that applies to nearly everything.

Re:Question: (2, Funny)

mlts (1038732) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204098)

Society never finds equilibrium. It merely heads to the state with the lowest energy and the highest entropy.

Flamebait mod (3, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204110)

See, you can't even point it out without getting a flamebait mod.

Re:Flamebait mod (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204146)

Yeah, the mods are just a bunch of stupid weasels. They follow the status quo (political correction in this case) because that is all that they know.
 
But don't blame them. All that they know came from school, television, and Digg. Most people refuse to think independently and therefore never accept the harsh realities of life.
 
--TSP

Re:Question: (2, Interesting)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204112)

Exactly - there's always a presumption of guilt for the man.

I'd hate to be a celebrity or some kind of professional athlete in this respect. You would think they'd all be afraid to talk with strangers in public or date women innocently, for fear of those people all looking for a payday any way they could get it.

Re:Question: (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204158)

I remember reading a while back about a NBA or NFL training seminar they required for new ballplayers. One of the topics they covered was just that, the dangers of letting a "groupie" get you alone (and what it could cost you if they were interested in more than just sleeping with a celebrity). Probably should be a required class for new rock stars too.

Re:Question: (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204446)

Rock groupies are much more understanding. :)

Re:Question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204406)

Exactly - there's always a presumption of guilt for the man.

And many people will accuse a raped woman of bringing it on themselves and inviting the rape.

Re:Question: (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204506)

Seriously, when is the last time you ever heard anyone do that publicly? A lot of feminists claim this to be the case, and it's true that it might have once been more acceptable (and it was NEVER fully acceptable, BTW). But no one would dare say this sort of thing anymore today (certainly not openly, and even only reluctantly in private). It *is* quite acceptable to assume that an accused rapist is guilty and make public statements [wikipedia.org] raking him (or her, for that matter) over the coals, long before they've been found guilty or even before most of the facts are known. But anyone openly blaming the accuser in a case like this today (no matter how questionable his/her credibility) would be burned at the stake.

Re:Question: (1)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204124)

Without decent attorneys, those guys would probably be in prison now (instead of the piece-of-shit prosecutor who railroaded them for his own political gain).

That highlights the importance of money in getting justice. Those kids had very well-to-do parents that were able to launch a very effective legal and PR counter attack - and I'm sure they were also politically connected too.

For the rest of us, we'd have to take a "deal" (plead guilty to lesser but no less BS charges) from the prosecutor in order to get it over with so that we not only don't go to jail over the BS charges but also not be burdened with legal bills for the rest of our lives.

Justice seems to only apply to the rich these days.

Re:Question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204498)

This will all go away once we invent a virtual reality sex simulation even 50% as good as the real thing. Or a sex bot.

And japan is working hard (ha) on both those.

Women will lose all the sexual control they have enjoyed and abused for the last 40 years.

Virtual 10 beats the crap out of a real 7 that might falsely charge you with rape or sexual harassment because shes a bitch.

Go go gadget hooker!

Of course... that might be the end of the human race... But i'm ok with that too.

Re:Question: (4, Insightful)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203968)

Today you'd get thrown in jail for making that recording.

Re:Question: (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204222)

It's a good thing you weren't in Illinois. Taping it with a microcassette without their knowledge is a felony here. But then, this IS Illinois, where the powerful want to be shielded from their lies.

Re:Question: (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203642)

The 'accuser' has backed off things quite a bit, including saying they never had a sexual relationship ... all this after she received a settlement. That's why they call it 'hush money'.

Re:Question: (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203672)

Don't feel too bad, he is getting a golden handshake in the tune of $150 million at least. (They are still working on some stock options and HP just came out with a nice profit)

Re:Question: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204316)

OMG! how will he survive??

Can we set up a Paypal donation fund for him?

such a travesty... he's pennyless now. How can we expect a spoiled rich asshole to put his pants on without at least 2 servants?

Yes (4, Informative)

snowwrestler (896305) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203768)

He was not fired for the sexual harassment stuff. In fact he was cleared of violating HP's policy and he settled the suit out of court. Both he and woman have confirmed that they did not have a sexual relationship.

He was fired for filing inaccurate expense reports totalling about $20,000. Basically he concealed the fact that he was expensing meetings with this woman. HP has stated that they do have clear evidence of that, and that Hurd admitted it and offered to repay the $20k. Instead they fired him.

He was a superstar manager. If HP's financial performance suffers without Hurd, they could lose tens of billions of dollars in market cap. If that happens I have to think that investors are going to question whether that $20k was worth it.

Re:Yes (4, Insightful)

s.d. (33767) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203902)

He was a superstar manager. If HP's financial performance suffers without Hurd, they could lose tens of billions of dollars in market cap. If that happens I have to think that investors are going to question whether that $20k was worth it.

I don't disagree that he has been an amazing manager at HP, helping to turn things around after the mess that was Carly Fiorina.

However, how much corruption is too much to overlook? Where do you draw that line? He falsified records to get expenses paid out to himself and/or this woman for $20k, and when caught red-handed, offered to pay it back. Ok, but what if he wasn't caught? Would he have kept doing it? Would he have done it with some other woman? What happens if he wasn't caught until the total was in the millions? Would that have still been ok, because a couple million is still less than tens of billions in market cap?

What is the value of corporate officers acting honestly no matter what?

Re:Yes (2, Insightful)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203982)

This is business, not government. In business, you perform a cost analysis, with the risks and potential benefits.

Morality, ethics don't really enter in to the question unless it becomes a PR and marketing issue.

Hurd was doing a great job for the company, and yes he fucked up. However, I believe someone used this situation as a cover for their own personal agenda.

Re:Yes (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204092)

Not in cases like this you don't. There isn't any leeway, especially at the top. Hell, I am not even close to the top but would be fired if I falsified even $150 on an expense report. We have to take anti-corruption training every year or two, including things like this and more gray-area ones like accepting tickets to sporting events from vendors, etc. They make it clear that there is no exception - you violate the policy and you are out. You can't really expect LESS from the executives. They have to be the ones that show what is acceptable. Once you have proof that one of them did wrong - keeping them with a "mea culpa" and a remuneration just isn't going to fly. It tells the workers that the company has no compunction against corruption and if you get caught it is OK - just pay it back. In fact, these execs can't even truthfully fill out their SOX compliance stuff if they know this is going on.

Re:Yes (1)

OnlineAlias (828288) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204202)

The agenda being "get money for myself". Someone powerful wants money, and he is in-between them and that. That is all it ever is.

Re:Yes (5, Insightful)

OnlineAlias (828288) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204132)

People simply do not understand things at the top of the political/business world. None of this was about what he did, falsified what, or expensed whatever. This was about someone else wanting him out. Someone powerful wants the job, or doesn't like the guy, period.

People at this level are in constant competition with others to keep their jobs, and have to force others out. If you make yourself politically weak by doing some jackoff thing like this, it makes it easier to take you out. Here, someone did. They managed to overlook the data center for his kids school, for chrissake. He just had more juice at that time.

Re:Yes (1)

markdowling (448297) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204138)

Mod parent up. I have no doubt that a $200 falsification at a big.ugly.corp would have you marched out of the building with your box of trinkets. It does seem like a Capone-esque way of getting rid of him, and Gawker's story on the school possibly points to a far bigger, but allowed drain on shareholder funds via executive sense of entitlement than lying about expenses.

Re:Yes (1)

the_hellspawn (908071) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204186)

You just didn't use superstar and manager in the same sentence and in a positive light did you? omg! you did. You must read Dilbert and pay particular attention to the pointy haired boss and their CEO. Dilbert's depiction is spot on with management. LOL superstar manager LOL!

$20k is a much bigger deal than it seems (4, Insightful)

sirwired (27582) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204212)

The firing wasn't about the amount of the falsification. $20k is indeed chump change for a bazillion-dollar executive. But once you let the CEO get away with blatantly falsifying expense accounts, you've now made theft from the company an acceptable practice. How do you now justify firing an employee for the same thing? Why is it okay for a CEO to steal $20k, but not okay for a peon to do the same? Condoning this behavior is simply not the right thing to do, and can trigger long-term problems with morale and the company culture which can lead to massive losses (and possibly company failure) years down the road.

I'd say there is a 100% chance that any peon that stole $20k would be escorted out of the building by security (and isn't going to receive any cushy severance package either) and possibly brought up on charges.

I applaud HP's board for doing the right thing here and demonstrating the executives are held to the same ethical rules as front-line employees. Yes, it hurt. Yes, Hurd was an otherwise-excellent CEO. Yes, this has cost a lot of short-term pain to the stock price. But some things just aren't right, and churning up $20k in fraudulent expense accounts is one of them. (Wiretapping journalists to find out their sources is another, which HP found out the hard way.) I think HP will be a stronger company down the road as a result.

SirWired

Re:Yes (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204228)

Your argument is exactly why companies should not be considered legal persons: because they lack a functioning morality.

Re:Yes (1)

StylusEater (1206014) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204290)

Exactly! He was not fired because of some crazy woman and her true OR false allegations. He was fired for stealing money from his company. Heck, if one of us peons did it we'd probably have formal charges brought up versus a nice slap on the wrist and a retirement to a second tier CEO position.

Re:Yes (1)

eison (56778) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204328)

I'm pretty sure their HR department has a zero tolerance policy on stealing from the company. How much money do I have to be worth before the rules don't apply to me anymore? Do you really think it's only unacceptable to steal if I'm on the bottom half of the org chart?

Re:Yes (1)

farble1670 (803356) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204484)

If that happens I have to think that investors are going to question whether that $20k was worth it.

investors probably want to know also that HP management doesn't stand for execs stealing from the company. it's their money after all. or, maybe the rule should be that as long as they don't steal more than they are ostensibly worth, it's all good.

you'd also have to ask whether you want to employ a man who is dumb enough to steal $20k when he's getting six+ figure salary not to mention bonuses.

Re:Question: (1)

NevarMore (248971) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203782)

Does anyone know if there is hard evidence (heh) proving this guy's guilt? It would be a real shame for this to be a false accusation that destroys a man's career...

Oh yes it would be just *awful* if this poor man had to retire on $11.6 million in cash and $40-50 million in HP stock.

I agree with your basic premise, not guilty means that he should be made whole after this mess is sorted out. This "resignation" is there to make problems for HP go away whether or not Hurd actually did anything. However I find it VERY hard to feel bad for someone that makes over 1000 times what the average middle class salaried worker makes. I'm pretty sure he can retire comfortably and his kids won't even really have to work ever again either.

Re:Question: (1)

ground.zero.612 (1563557) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204248)

However I find it VERY hard to feel bad for someone that makes over 1000 times what the average middle class salaried worker makes.

Why? Are you a bigot toward people with better advantage in life than yourself? Perhaps you are jealous? Why does ones monetary worth make on iota of difference in your ability to empathize; feel human compassion? He is no Bernie Madoff or Tom Petters...

Re:Question: (1)

NevarMore (248971) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204340)

Oh I'm very jealous. I'd like to know what to put in my contracts so that I get a bonus when I resign.

I do agree with the parent's original premise that no one should be treated as a criminal until proven guilty of a crime. Its just really hard to feel sorry for someone who makes more than I will in my working career just for quitting his job.

This isn't exactly the same as the manager that had his reputation ruined because of planted kiddie porn, but it is in the same vein.

FTFY (4, Insightful)

RingDev (879105) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204036)

Does anyone know if there is hard evidence (heh) proving this guy's guilt? It would be a real shame for this to be a false accusation that gives this man $12 million in cash and $30 to 40 million in stock options...

-Rick

Re:Question: Headline test (1)

b4dc0d3r (1268512) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204206)

Doesn't matter. Business code of conduct says if it might look bad in a headline, don't do it. HP is a fortune 10 company and in the middle of a pretty big turnaround. The last thing they need is (potential) clients questioning leadership.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/sustainability/hp-ousts-ceo-hurd-fails-the-headline-test/1126 [zdnet.com]

Harassment... (5, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203568)


No stranger himself to sexual harassment allegations, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison

I heard Larry Ellison keeps the sexual harassment forms in the bottom drawer of his desk. That way when a woman goes to get one he can check out her ass.

.

Re:Harassment... (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204224)

Exactly, this is just a case of the old boys club sticking together to keep their perks. After all, what is the point of being a top level executive if you can't use company resources to pay for dates.It was only 10-100K a pop to get the lady to have dinner. Not that much in the scheme of HP finances? He departure will certainly cost more than that, so it was silly to make him leave. It was only a woman after all, not a real person.

Politics politics (1)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203574)

This has turned into a episode of Mad Men. the lawyer wants the CEO out, because maybe he has some dirt on him. Call it Pack Men.

Hopefully, the offended woman will do some Ahley Dupree photo shoots soon so we can see what the fuss is about.

Re:Politics politics (1)

markdowling (448297) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204152)

If you RTFAed, you would know that there is already, um, material in the public domain.

Re:Politics politics (1)

Whalou (721698) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204194)

Hopefully, the offended woman will do some Ahley Dupree photo shoots soon so we can see what the fuss is about.

No need to wait for a photoshoot, she's done some B/C-movies: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0167546/ [imdb.com] .
Intimate Obsession and Body of Influence 2 should give you what you were looking for.

Re:Politics politics (1)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204236)

Hopefully, the offended woman will do some Ahley Dupree photo shoots soon so we can see what the fuss is about.

Here you go [gawker.com] .

Too much (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203576)

I bet the guy was too successful and shook things up for too many of the other managers.

The other guys being, you know, the rider/failure/moron type of management common at most companies.

You can't get things done in a big company like HP without pissing on a few people's pet projects and interests.

Obvious (5, Funny)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203578)

With so many senior tech company staff quitting or being fired in the past few weeks, I must conclude that there is a connection. The Earth is doomed, and these individuals have been chosen to be part of the secret task-force designing the space craft that will whisk the rich and influential away to live on another planet.

Re:Obvious (1)

broknstrngz (1616893) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203630)

And sexual harassment was the easiest selling excuse ;) Actually I do dream about retiring in a similar fashion, preferably when I'm 85. Or even better, have a deadline say "man, 85, shot dead by jealous husband".

Re:Obvious (1)

broknstrngz (1616893) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203650)

I obviously meant headline!

Re:Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203678)

... or better yet, "shot dead by angry father"

Re:Obvious (1)

19thNervousBreakdown (768619) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203876)

Why do you want to be shot by your husband?

Re:Obvious (1)

broknstrngz (1616893) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204116)

Sorry, I meant your husband.

Re:Obvious (1)

19thNervousBreakdown (768619) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204204)

Oh don't worry, we have an open relationship.

But, if you want to be "shot"...

Re:Obvious (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203670)

The Earth is doomed, and these individuals have been chosen to be part of the secret task-force designing the space craft that will whisk the rich and influential away to live on another planet.

Let's hope Hurd does a better job designing the spacecraft that's going to save us all than HP did with its initial 'slate' offering ... and we're all crossing our fingers that this space craft will run WebOS instead of Windows.

Re:Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204402)

You just recounted the plot of: They Live

Larry's statement - without logging in. (5, Informative)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203580)

Be nice to find another news source - like this one [thestreet.com] where a login was not needed.

"In losing Mark Hurd, the H-P board failed to act in the best interest of H.P.'s employees, shareholders, customers and partners," Ellison wrote in an email to The New York Times, which posted excerpts of the email late Monday. "The H-P board admits that it fully investigated the sexual harassment claims against Mark and found them to be utterly false."

Re:Larry's statement - without logging in. (0, Offtopic)

Princeofcups (150855) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203790)

Sociopaths are, well, sociopathic. They couldn't care less how their actions affect other people.

Re:Larry's statement - without logging in. (1)

Maarx (1794262) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204192)

I didn't click your link (this is /.), but did they really inconsistently use HP, H.P., and H-P?

Re:Larry's statement - without logging in. (0)

imaswinger (592216) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204502)

yes

Violated policy (2, Interesting)

glittermage (650813) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203694)

Mark violated other company policies and chose the better path. There are many other people who can fill the shoes of the CEO at HP. Mark's departure strengthened the HP brand and that is very valuable.

Re:Violated policy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203766)

" Mark's departure strengthened the HP brand ..."

Whether the HP brand has been strengthened or not remains to be seen,
at least for those who don't have a crystal ball it does.

For those like you who think that any move which is politically correct must
therefore be a wise move, I have derision which is quite beyond the power of
comprehension of your tiny little sheep brain.

Re:Violated policy (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203860)

"Mark violated other company policies and chose the better path. There are many other people who can fill the shoes of the CEO at HP. Mark's departure strengthened the HP brand and that is very valuable."

Spintastic, good sir! Delivered with impeccable corporate style. :)

All this crossover (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203706)

It seems like there are only about ten people in total that sit on the boards of all the world's Corporations. Something's wrong with that.

Let me guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203786)

Your solution is to bring in the 10 people that sit on the board of government to replace them.

Re:Let me guess (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204144)

:-) Guess again. Your troll games don't work on me. You only look like one of those "free market" fanatics.

These companies are subject to SEC rules, as toothless as they are. A person should only be permitted to sit on one board at a time.. none of this two places at once crap.. It provides better protection for the illusion of competition.

"a profound lack of judgment" (4, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203726)

Is this how "corruption on a massive scale" is spelled, nowadays?

Re:"a profound lack of judgment" (1)

NevarMore (248971) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203812)

It's spelled C-E-O.

Re:"a profound lack of judgment" (0)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204306)

It's spelled C-E-O

In today's corporate world, dominated by psychopaths, yes, it is.

Re:"a profound lack of judgment" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203994)

A few dinners by a middle age bloke getting some on the side is corruption on a massive scale? What's wrong with you?

Re:"a profound lack of judgment" (1)

Maarx (1794262) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204210)

A few dinners by a middle age bloke getting some on the side is corruption on a massive scale? What's wrong with you?

$20,000 dinners?

Sexual harassment (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203730)

It is a matter of a criminal court, not company policy.

Re:Sexual harassment (2, Informative)

dwye (1127395) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203958)

No, it is civil, not criminal, matter, unless it was actual assault or rape (not the case, here). Since Hurd and the lady settled the matter privately, it is no court's business.

GNU/ (2, Funny)

wcoenen (1274706) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203732)

How many times do we have to say it people? It's GNU/Hurd!

She didn't want him fired (4, Informative)

zstlaw (910185) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203742)

Part of the scandal that she didn't want him fired as he had already settled the harassment charges with her. The pictures I saw showed very attractive actress back in her 30s (she is 50 now). She was hired for marketing and networking. ("HP paid her up to $5,000 per event to greet people and make introductions among executives")

She reported unwanted advances and that uncovered a forged dinner reimbursement with her that was why he was ousted. (He probably was with another woman but claimed it was her so he could get dinner reimbursed.) She says she was "surprised and saddened" that Hurd lost his job. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38611219/ns/business-us_business/ [msn.com]

Re:She didn't want him fired (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204404)

"She reported unwanted advances and that uncovered a forged dinner reimbursement with her"

I wonder what form those "unwanted advances" took.

Yes we should punish stuff like molestation, assault and rape, and persisting after the other party tells you to stop.

But in cultures where it's the norm for the males to make the "advances" and the females to not do so, it would be counterproductive to consider all unwanted advances as ethically or legally offensive.

FWIW, some women have been known to only like their suitors after many "wooing" attempts. As a guy I'd be very happy if the majority want "no really means no" and after some generations we end up with fewer and fewer women that say "no" but mean yes/maybe. Over the long term the resultant culture will probably be better for it.

HP board a source of intrigue a few years ago? (1)

swb (14022) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203744)

Why do I remember reading some long article (NY Times? New Yorker?) about intrigue on the HP board. It may have been Fiorina related, but I seem to recall something to do with cell phone records, etc.

not even close to the worst (5, Insightful)

waddgodd (34934) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203800)

This is the board that hired Carly, setting a new standard for "worst personnel decision". Compared to that, this doesn't even make a blip on the radar.

Re:not even close to the worst (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204106)

Which could be outdone if California elects Carly senator.

Why so surprised? (2, Insightful)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203818)

'The HP board just made the worst personnel decision since the idiots on the Apple board fired Steve Jobs many years ago,'

I'm surprised Ellision is surprised. The HP board is no stranger to godawful personnel decisions [wikipedia.org] .

He was fired for lying and stealing. (5, Insightful)

thesandbender (911391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203834)

Everyone is focusing on the sexual aspects of this. If you read through HP's statements, they fired him because he falsified expense reports (lied) so he could give money to the woman involved for *consulting* services that appeared to have either never been performed or were done so poorly as to be worthless (stole).

HP canned his butt for stealing, plan and simple. It would be idiotic to keep a thief on as your CEO, especially in this political, companies are the root of all evil climate. HP's board did their job in this case.

Well, if Larry backs him... (3, Insightful)

frank_adrian314159 (469671) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203838)

If Larry Ellison backs Hurd then he must be his kind of scum - fearless and inventive. Takes one to know one.

Larry and RMS too (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204160)

If Larry Ellison backs Hurd then he must be his kind of scum

Then so must Richard Stallman [gnu.org] .

Re:Larry and RMS too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204386)

No, Stallman is just a lucky dumbass that was in the right place at the right time...

He was NOT fired for sexual harrassment (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203848)

From http://bit.ly/98DlLO
"The investigation discovered that Hurd had a "close personal relationship" with a marketing contractor that he did not disclose to the board, Mike Holston, HP's general counsel said. The consultant does not wish to be named, he said.

It also revealed that there were numerous instances where the contractor was paid or reimbursed without performing work. There were also inaccurate expense reports from Hurd meant to hide his personal relationship with the contractor, Holston said. That evidence pointed to "a profound lack of judgment" by Hurd, he said."

Basically, a bunch of overpaid CEOs are shocked and appalled that one of their own could be fired for cause, when they regularly dismiss thousands of employees without cause in order to appease the gods of Wall Street, thus maintaining the value of their stock options.

Re:He was NOT fired for sexual harrassment (1)

ibsteve2u (1184603) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204046)

When people whose entire focus is lust - lust for power, lust for wealth - are treated like royalty, it should shock no one when those lusts...expand.

I think the duality in the ethical system in the American workplace is a natural result of corporate America's success at buying whatever they want from Congress - success, even when what they purchase causes grievous harm to the American people and the national interest. The individual who would not self-inflate when their every wish became reality is rare...particularly in corporate America.

So I, at least, am not surprised; I await the day when an American CEO demands the royal prerogative of droit du seigneur.

Surprised? (5, Interesting)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 4 years ago | (#33203940)

Really, is anyone surprised that this is Larry Ellison's reaction? (Regardless of the actual details of the allegations or truth of them.)

He's the kind of guy (the bit about him in the Washington Post article linked in TFA speaks to this somewhat, if you're not familiar) who thinks of executives as a kind of new aristocracy, able to do whatever they want and sleep with whichever female employees they want without limit or accountability.

People rag on the quirks tech CEOs like Ballmer and Jobs (and some of it's deserved and/or funny), but Ellison is a honest-to-god king of the douchebags.

Steve Jobs (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33203974)

was fired cause he was acting like an asshole to the 1 and only team in the company that actually were making money, announcing the death of the apple // series (with its millions of users) for his new-fangled macintosh project

now most fanboi's say well macintosh proved to be the right way to go, but in 1983 this jackoff had not 1 but 2 retard expensive computer failures and was driving the company bankrupt, so here he is proclaiming that apple was killing its cash cow for yet another retard expensive fad computer, which was a market failure up until his departure and apple started listening to their customers, dropped the price, got some software aside from mac paint, and added what was by then a laughable 512k model (keeping in mind everyone else was in the megs by then)

Re:Steve Jobs (0, Offtopic)

mevets (322601) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204142)

Woz, is that you? Have you seen the iPods, they are pretty cool.

lets see (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204100)

he is guilty of embezzlement and using the money to pay for a prostitute, he is pretty damn lucky to get 28 million and forced to leave, if i had anything to do with it he would be looking at a long prison sentence.

OT: Speaking of terrible decisions... (0, Offtopic)

toby (759) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204176)

Sun selling itself into the jaws of the Larrygator will be the end of a truly great engineering company.

elison is a total idiot (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204188)

If anybody believes that this incidence is what causes his firing, they are absolutely stupid. This kind of stuff goes on ALL the time. And it is not enough to get ANY ceo fired in this day and age. Obviously, there is a LOT more behind the story, that HP does not want to come to light. The issue is that this was simply the last straw, or the rest was found during the investigation about this.

HP board (1)

Jodka (520060) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204220)

from the linked NY Times article:

“In losing Mark Hurd, the H.P. board failed to act in the best interest of H.P.’s employees, shareholders, customers and partners,” Mr. Ellison wrote.

Even those who side with the HP board in their decision would agree with Mr. Ellison on that point. The issue is not whether the board damaged HP, of course they did, it is whether the greater good of enforcing ethical conduct was served by doing so.

The evidence against him is flimsy (0, Flamebait)

hessian (467078) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204244)

Fisher, an actress who has appeared on the reality TV show "Age of Love" and in softcore porn movies in the 1990s, claimed she felt Hurd pressured her to have sex, according to the San Jose Mercury News. Hurd denied it. Both Hurd and Fisher said there was no sexual relationship.

This looks like classic extortion:

She "felt" he pressured her to have sex?

So one person who probably crazy (actress, reality show) makes an accusation and they fire a quality CEO?

What were they thinking?

Re:The evidence against him is flimsy (1)

Courageous (228506) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204424)

*shrug*

From the various stories and statements, what happened was this: he asked her out, probably more than once. Not a crime, and not really against policy in any corporation. Here's where it gets fuzzy, though. He's the boss-man, and she works for them. It will start to stress a girl out, knowing that he can terminate the business relationship. From her own statement, she did not want him fired, and probably went to HR in order to make the complaint formal so no reprisals would occur. HR isn't always the best way, but some times a girl will feel pressured. Someone in any management position should take great care of asking out anyone over whom one has management influence over, and when making the decision to do so should probably never make a second attempt if the answer is "no".

If you RTFA, you'll see he wasn't fired for any of this, regardless. It was something else, with finances.

C//

Larry Ellison is the last CEO I would ask... (3, Insightful)

sirwired (27582) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204272)

Larry Ellison runs Oracle like his own personal fiefdom. He's very good at what he does, but he's the last person on earth I'd ask for advice on executive boundaries. His attitude fits in very well with Oracle's corporate culture (which he built.) It would be a disaster for HP.

Oracle's board would never fire him for such a thing (could they even do so?), but HP's board was quite right in tossing Hurd to the curb.

HP's board made a tough choice, but in the end, I think it will have proven to be the correct one.

SirWired

poor judgement (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33204312)

Playing grab ass with some aging wannabe starlet who makes a living by flashing her tits is extraordinarily bad judgment even if he weren't married. Hiding $20K in his expense account to do it - especially at his income level - is even stupider.

He got what he deserved, even if he never managed to get in her pants.

Unemployed? (0, Offtopic)

hcs_$reboot (1536101) | more than 4 years ago | (#33204364)

Good. It will give Mr Hurd some time to fix my slow and ink-greedy HP printer.
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