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182 comments

Niggers (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33248812)

Frosty Piss. It's water from your dick. From your fucking cock!

Re:Niggers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33248848)

Actually it comes from my vagina, but close enough.

Re:Niggers (1, Funny)

OrangeCatholic (1495411) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249210)

India just gave 38% of smartphone users a RIMjob.

Re:Niggers (4, Interesting)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249394)

and they made my decision on which smartphone to get when my Blackberry Storm kicks the bucket a whole lot easier. One of the reasons I went with them was because of their relative integrity when it comes to my information. If that practice is going out the window then my business just went out the window for them as well, and I'm certain I'm not alone.

Re:Niggers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249714)

Why is this modded flamebait? Mods have no sense of humor.

Re:Niggers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249294)

Your bladder is connected to your vagina? Freak!

Re:Niggers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249310)

She has a fistula, you insensitive clod type chap!

Re:Niggers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249720)

Wow... I had no idea that existed [wikipedia.org]. Bowels<->stomach is a recursive horror.

Re:Niggers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33248882)

that's really offensive. please be more polite in the future
sincerely, jesus

How long... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33248818)

How long before every country decides that in order to allow RIM to operate they need to open up their servers?

Re:How long... (5, Funny)

Jazz-Masta (240659) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248832)

How long before every country decides that in order to allow RIM to operate they need to open up their servers?

Monday.

Re:How long... (2, Interesting)

vlueboy (1799360) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248844)

This will be pretty interesting in shaping the expansion of future multinational companies: how long until every country decides that your "private" T1 connecting New York to Tokyo needs to pass through traffic sniffing tools so that both countries are sure nobody is using private corporations for terrorist activities? Far fetched? AlQaida is a private corporation on its own way. You just need some sleeper cells properly situated at both ends of the wire inside a fortune 500 company, especially an outsource friendly one. Then, even if Intel has no idea of the crimes being aided by their "private" network, these "super-private" interests can be allowed to harm both countries.

That said, I do not agree with government spying, but see that even as cellphone communications are important to control, eventually government "greed" will stop at nothing for the sake of national security.

Re:How long... (3, Interesting)

davester666 (731373) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249028)

Of course, there are only a billion or so trivial ways to privately communicate using a public network, from one-time pads, to stenography [in text, images, video, or other binary files], to using ssh, or https.

And for all you higher and mightier Americans using IMAP, I'm sure you know the police can request any email, without a warrant, for any email stored on a server for more than 180 days (and now believes that they can also get any email stored on the server for less than 180 days if you've read it) http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/emailprivacy/ [wired.com] I wonder if GMail has a portal that lets the police do this or if they just forward all email to the FBI as it passes 180 days...

Are you sure it's *securely* encrypted? (5, Interesting)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249424)

Verizon has delegated enough authority to let the UAE write SSL certificates impersonating any site [eff.org] which will get automatically accepted by most browsers, so don't you think it's getting hard to know if your communications are actually secure from eavesdropping?

Part of the problem of secure communications is that there are too many governments who don't want people to have them because people can (and do) plot nefarious things with them.

Re:Are you sure it's *securely* encrypted? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249894)

Yes, it was. RIMM uses Private Keys, not public keys. Now they are simply adding additional keys to the signature which will allow any government who demands it, access to traffic in their regions. Boo to RIMM. They should have said, "no" to all countries demanding it and allowed the comms to be blocked. That would have been a hit to the business, but would have earned the respect from companies AND governments around the world that want that level of trust.

What I want is a clear understanding that when I travel to these less-that-happy-places, that MY data is not unencrypted by those less-than-honorable-governments.

Re:Are you sure it's *securely* encrypted? (1)

idiot900 (166952) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249930)

That's absolutely terrifying.

This also highlights the fact that Verizon can impersonate any site, and that there is little chance they haven't granted a private key to US intelligence and law-enforcement agencies.

I guess the moral of this story is that if you want to communicate securely, without every government under the sun listening, you have to manage the encryption yourself.

Re:How long... (1, Troll)

jbssm (961115) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248850)

I'ts generally accepted that most of the 1st world countries actually don't need that. USA, Russia, Israel, China, etc, all have the means to decrypt those communications in real time and that's why they never needed to demand access from RIM.

Re:How long... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33248990)

You do know what "first world" means, right? Just a hint: not Russia or China.

Re:How long... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249058)

...neither is israel.

btw you guys, the white teenagers and otherwise virgin hackers who make up the majority of slashdot readers, reek of prejudice. h1b1 anyone??? bo hu hu, the indians are dumb-fucks but mommy they are still stealing our jobs (how much dumb are we for that to happen?).

Re:How long... (0, Offtopic)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249974)

Dude - the Indians aren't stealing our jobs. The fucking government is GIVING AWAY our jobs. Perhaps you're aware that there is a "minimum wage" in the US? Oddly, it has never applied to everyone, equally. Go ahead - see if you can figure out just who is exempt from the law. If there's any "stealing" of jobs happening, it's done by the South Americans. The jobs that the Indians are doing have been GIVEN to them.

Re:How long... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249132)

Just curious how any government would go about decrypting a 128 bit RSA message in real time? Was there an article proving P == NP while I wasn't paying attention?

Gag order (5, Insightful)

traindirector (1001483) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248866)

The better question may be "where has this already happened with a gag order attached to the request?"

Re:Gag order (4, Funny)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248966)

I'll tell you:

uA)u2j2la*jh2o(*&seH uj* jj3&m*j3hH

(and, yes, someone at RIM has just run that thru their indiaFilter() and are laughing at the joke. sorry, I can't explain it to you.)

The United States (4, Informative)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249124)

Can you believe the unmitigated nerve of those crappy little backwards countries and their oppressive Big Brother-ish monitoring of their citizens!!? Thank god nothing like this could ever happen in the United States, where we actually give a rat's ass about protecting our privacy from the government!

Oh, wait... Well, shit. [wired.com]

Re:How long... (4, Insightful)

chrb (1083577) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249542)

How long before every country decides that in order to allow RIM to operate they need to open up their servers?

The vast majority of countries with cell networks already have laws in place that require cell providers to enable lawful intercept of calls and messages. RIM were an anomaly because they provided no lawful intercept capability to these countries. Now, they do.. RIM devices in the USA and EU are already subject to lawful intercepts - these moves are just providing the same capability to other nations.

Re:How long... (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249986)

Uh-huh. Which only goes to show that people who use the cell phone to plot against the government are idiots. There are a lot of more secure methods of communication - some of them right on the internet. Of course, NOTHING is completely immune to being intercepted. It would be a bitch if the government intercepted the keys you sent for your buddy to decrypt all those files hidden in the picture of Obama admiring the Lincoln memorial, LOL

Re:How long... (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249654)

A terrorist will just use PGP to encrypt their emails. So will allot of legitimate businesses making it hard to tell friend from foe.

Story should be titled ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33248860)

"RIM gives India access to servers"

Last time I checked, Blackberry was just a mobile device brand name !

Re:Story should be titled ... (4, Funny)

plover (150551) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249092)

How about "Another RIM job for Blackberry Users"?

Re:Story should be titled ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249280)

Note to self: never read slashdot while eating.

Re:Story should be titled ... (1)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250002)

For anyone who doesn't know, BlackBerry email service means that all emails go through RIM's servers

Phfft. (4, Insightful)

kylemonger (686302) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248872)

This is like banning box cutters on planes because the 9/11 terrorists used them, as if terrorist can't figure out how to enocde their messages in other ways. Terrorism isn't the reasons for this, repression is.

Re:Phfft. (1)

kainosnous (1753770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248948)

That's very true. Terrorists, as any group of people, have many ways of communicating with each other. Some forms of communication are more convenient, but for an evil crime organisation, convenience is not the top priority. As you mentioned with box cutters, banning them didn't make it one bit harder for terrorists to make attempts on planes, but just made it much more troublesome for the many honest airline passengers.

The governments know this won't do anything for security. Either they are trying to trick the people into thinking that they are doing good (for the votes), or they are actively attempting to limit freedom. Either way, it isn't a good thing.

Re:Phfft. (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249042)

...box cutters, banning them ... just made it much more troublesome for the many honest airline passengers

I can't help but wonder - how? (especially "many")

And you know, India is the biggest democracy around...

Re:Phfft. (4, Insightful)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249358)

I can't help but wonder - how? (especially "many")

Plenty, since the TSA extended the definition of box cutters to include nail clippers, pencils & baby milk.

Re:Phfft. (1)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249532)

For me for example. I didn't knew you can't have any tools onboard (not only box cutters) and my pincers got confiscated.

Re:Phfft. (1)

Bucc5062 (856482) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250070)

India is a democracy, ah...So all those wonderfully democratic people who get their Blackberry cut off because RIM took a stand and said, "No, we are not going to allow government access to our servers" will rise up and vote leaders out of office?

Right.

Governments, even those labeled democratic, have understood that the masses will not really do anything to stop these steps to limit freedoms. RIM's in it for the money, I get that. But had they took a stand (and why now are governments asking for this, RIM been around for a while) in the UAE, SA, and India then perhaps enough people would have not only become active in checking the overreach of government, but it might have driven customers to RIM. They would be known for not bending to government control of legitimate communications.

This action will not stop bad people from committing bad acts. The best tools for reducing (if not stopping terrorism) is balanced economic growth for all people, the removal of repressive actions that foster hate, and then the practical and open use of law to bring criminals to justice. Blowing up people in a store, on the street is not terrorism, it is just murder. We should treat it as such.

Re:Phfft. (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250004)

You missed another obvious explanation. The government wants you to BELIEVE that you are beholden to them for your security. Note all the press releases, in which one official or another brags about the measures his agency has taken to protect you. They WANT you to feel dependent on the government.

You could look at welfare for a similar situation. Welfare has it's place - that is, no one should ever starve in any civilized country. But, today, welfare benefits come pretty close to what the lower middle class makes as a take home wage. Again, the government WANTS you to be dependent. The opinions of the dependent are malleable - or at least more malleable than the opinions of the independent.

Re:Phfft. (2, Informative)

OrangeCatholic (1495411) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249264)

Box cutters and WATER. Oh god I hope I never get a job handing out bottles of water in earthquake ravaged haiti, HOW will I get the water there and how will I open the packaging!?!?!

Or can you put water in a cargo plane? But wouldn't all that water just blow up even more??

Re:Phfft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249912)

Terrorism, it's the new communism

Oh, I get it ... (4, Insightful)

kbahey (102895) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248880)

Oh, I get it now ...

If it is Saudi Arabia and the UAE, it is all about censorship ...

But if it is India, it is a move against the terrorists ...

It is all about spin ...

Re:Oh, I get it ... (0, Flamebait)

angelwolf71885 (1181671) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249024)

yah but what you forget is that India is also 60% Muslim so yah besides helping track terrorists its also gonna be used to prosecute the same stuff Saudi arbia dose

Re:Oh, I get it ... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249182)

... India is also 60% Muslim ...

15%

Re:Oh, I get it ... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249188)

60 if you consider India as including Pakistan, pre-split :D

Re:Oh, I get it ... (2, Informative)

BangaIorean (1848966) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250010)

Dude - you have access to Google, Wikipedia, and the whole uncensored internet. it isn't too tough to do some basic research on such well known statistics. The percentage of Muslims in India FYI is 13.6%.

Re:Oh, I get it ... (0, Troll)

angelwolf71885 (1181671) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250124)

thats from 2001 you TWIT 10 years out of date and given how most of the west part of India is Muslim and GROWING yah its alot closer to 60%

Re:Oh, I get it ... (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33250094)

Nope, just around 13%. And thank god for that. It's bad enough when we have so many Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. I shudder to think of what would happen if a behemoth like India were overwhelmingly Muslim. A bunch of terrorists might have nuked NYC by now, and we'd see a lot more Burkhas all over the place!!!!!

No, obviously you don't get it. (4, Informative)

sdnick (1025630) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249240)

India actually did get hit recently by Muslim terrorists who received intelligence, coordination and orders from neighboring Pakistan over mobile phones for several days as they moved through Mumbai targeting non-Muslims and racking up a body count of 166.

Saudi Arabia and the UAE didn't suffer any recent attacks coordinated and made possible by mobile phone technology, and both have historically been far more willing to curtail free speech than India (which isn't anywhere near US standards for free speech itself).

RIM should have hung tough and refused India's request, but at least India had a legitimate reason to ask. "All about spin" - yeah, darn that annoying reality and how it gets in the way of the narrative you prefer.

Re:No, obviously you don't get it. (3, Insightful)

beh (4759) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249314)

Ah - and decrypting the messages would have solved the problems, as it is phyiscally impossible to write plaintext 'in-code' AND encrypting it?

The whole thing is bloody nonsense - if I were to plan any attacks, I certainly wouldn't just trust the encryption by a mobile provider as my 'safe haven'...

Re:No, obviously you don't get it. (1, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249366)

Nor would I. But India's parliament doesn't exactly work the same way as others do, and many of them are behind the times on their core understanding of technology. Even more-so then in other countries, where government lags on average of 10yrs behind both what the public is saying/thinking, and what they should actually be doing.

Re:No, obviously you don't get it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249370)

The instant messaging system has some APIs to extend it, so that a 3rd party program could call a function to send a message through the system, and someone's ported OTR [cypherpunks.ca] to Java/J2ME already.

Someone just needs to combine the two, and get a lot of pissed off Saudis and Indian government agents at them...

Re:No, obviously you don't get it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33250016)

Right... and India has such a pristine record with protecting innocents.

If you're in India, you should be shit-scared, whether you do something "wrong" or not (google for "Lakshmana Kailash K" and read if you're not lazy)

No surprise I'm posting as AC.

Corporate reactions will come... (4, Insightful)

Tjp($)pjT (266360) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248890)

By overtly giving access to these governments they can scan for US or European business partners (hopefully RIM limits to the local to that country traffic). This allows them an unfair competitive advantage as they can then direct local companies often state owned or controlled to change bids or marketing approaches. Saudi Arabia this might apply to leveraging better prices from suppliers or from gaining a better advantage in the financial sector, and in India it means they can now cherry pick information related to manufacturing deals to gain advantage over the people looking for competitive bids between India and other outsource manufacturing (and outsource software development).

This is not good. Corporations should strongly consider if RIM is a viable solution at this point.

Re:Corporate reactions will come... (1)

Ziekheid (1427027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248918)

How about agreements on sharing international banking data, it's far more worrying.

Re:Corporate reactions will come... (2, Interesting)

khchung (462899) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248968)

By overtly giving access to these governments they can scan for US or European business partners (hopefully RIM limits to the local to that country traffic). This allows them an unfair competitive advantage as they can then direct local companies often state owned or controlled to change bids or marketing approaches.

Yes, and as we all know, the US and Europe (incl UK) governments are such bastion of moral behavior that they had never and would never ever use data collected through immoral means (e.g. spying, wire-tapping, etc) to assist their own businesses.

A more cynical person (who might have read about such abuses by various western governments in the past) would more likely to think that by gaining such access, these governments would simply be "leveling the playing field" rather than gaining any "unfair advantage".

Sounds like a lost cause... (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248936)

Indians and those who think like them must think folks bent to do bad things (read harm society), are fools. To defeat any kind of snooping, all bad people have to do is to communicate in code.

That is: "Let's have dinner tonight." to mean "The materials will arrive next week Tuesday."

Now defeat that.

Re:Sounds like a lost cause... (2, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248984)

anyone truly needing encryption will manage their own layered end-to-end solution or have someone competant handle that for them.

the rest of us will be denied our privacy and the government will come off looking like its 'tough on crime'.

oh, and a private corporation gets to keep a huge marketshare and shit on its customers. or maybe its customers' customers.

ie, business as usual.

Re:Sounds like a lost cause... (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249208)

The real deal is the number, who has the number, what was sent and any new numbers connected. The days of pre or post conference Soviet limo chatter are over. But the friends of friends of people of interest are so worth the effort. Welcome to CryptoAG in your hand :)

Re:Sounds like a lost cause... (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249992)

To defeat any kind of snooping, all bad people have to do is to communicate in code.
That is: "Let's have dinner tonight." to mean "The materials will arrive next week Tuesday."


The first problem is the code book.

There are only so many words and phrases you can keep in your head before you have to write them down.

The second is weaving the key words and phrases into a message that doesn't come across as stilted and unnatural - or worse.

"Let's have dinner tonight" implies an intimacy that can be easily tested.

The Thrifty Spy on the Sixth Avenue El [americanheritage.com]


The most frustrated man in New York at 4 P.M. Saturday, July 24, 1915, was a very proper German lawyer named Heinrich Friedrich Albert who stood helplessly in the middle of Sixth Avenue at Fifty-second Street, watching a streetcar glide uptown with his briefcase and the details of the $40,000,000 spy, propaganda, and sabotage ring he operated. Dr. Albert...had saved a taxi fare of perhaps $1.25.

 

Excuse for corporate espionage, really (5, Interesting)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248962)

I know RIM is only providing meta-data on the content, but honestly, are you telling me that this *wont* be used to spy on a corporate competitor?

India is corrupt in a very "Who me?" way. This law has only abuses, in a country where you can buy a SIM for 5 dollars, with a photocopy of just about anybody's id. The terrorists don't need to bother with the BB or anything even remotely expensive - the underworld maybe (The D Company [wikipedia.org]), but not the "kill them all and let God sort them out" category of terrorists.

But it's not like India is the first place to do this. Echelon was used similarly, I guess to spy on foreign firms.

Re:Excuse for corporate espionage, really (2, Funny)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248970)

I guess to spy on foreign firms.

my eyes must be going. at fist, I read it as foreign films and I'm thinking, hmmm, is there some DRM angle to this? maybe something about region codes?

yes, I must get new glasses soon.

Re:Excuse for corporate espionage, really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33250058)

Fac ut vivas

Lesser evil? (2, Informative)

cestmoa (1335613) | more than 3 years ago | (#33248994)

I somewhat can understand the concern of law enforcement that a secure mail environement makes their job more difficult. On the other hand, giving access to the RIM infrastructure implies that you are no longer innocent until proven otherwise, but you are now suspect until your innocence is proven. BAD

While Internet Service and PIN2PIN messages seem to be encrypted with the same key for everybody, RIM always claimed that enterprise mail is encrypted with a unique key end to end from the enterprise server to the device and that nobody else has this key, specially not RIM. Enterprise mail solution is crypted with AES 256bit, so if this is true, your corporate mail should still be safe. And if you don't trust this, use S/MIME or PGP or don't use mobile corporate mail at all.

Anyway, this step does not increase the customer trust in the RIM solution, I really hope for a clear statement from RIM on this purpose.

Re:Lesser evil? (0, Troll)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249054)

"RIM always claimed that enterprise mail is encrypted with a unique key end to end from the enterprise server to the device and that nobody else has this key" ...and you believed that?

Re:Lesser evil? (1)

cestmoa (1335613) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249272)

Yes, to me it is believable. Reasons:
1) RIM uses AES, an open standard for which it is proven, that no master key exists
2) To generate the keys on the device and server, RIM uses SPEKE, an open standard to generate keys without ever transmitting it.
3) The moment RIM has the keys and this is getting public knowledge (and something like this would get out), the business model of RIM is dead

Other modes of communication (3, Interesting)

ricky1962 (149006) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249052)

They can always go back to using number stations on the shortwave bands. Just a thought.

Re:Other modes of communication (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249290)

My 802.11g adapter can't pick up radio stations, you insensitive clod!

Re:Other modes of communication (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250104)

Dump the WIFI-g, dude. You're obsolete. You want WIFI-n. Oh - wait - they've already done that, haven't they? Crap, let's go with WIFI-y. I think it has a nice ring to it! ;^)

A very bad privacy bet in RIM's side (1)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249088)

Instead of complying with evils requirements, RIM could have well say "thanks but no thanks", thus doing a lot of advertising on how secure they were, and how strong their privacy concern was. This would have had a tremendous marketing effect. We would have all think about RIM as a very good company.

Now, we all know that RIM's network is full of spy watching us. The fact that appart from these spies, the network WAS to be considered very safe doesn't add up. We 100% know now, that somebody is listening.

They might have succeeded in keeping their market up and running in India and other Arabs countries, but now myself and many others well understand that we wont ever be able to trust a blackberry again. I really think this will hurt RIM in the long run. At least I wont forget, and will continue using OTR on open platforms like the n900.

RIM had a very different tune Thursday (1)

Tony Lechner (994093) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249130)

Funny, I read this quote from a RIM public statement in an article this morning

No changes to the security architecture for BlackBerry Enterprise Server customers since, contrary to any rumors, the security architecture is the same around the world and RIM truly has no ability to provide its customers’ encryption keys. Also driving RIM’s position is the fact that strong encryption is a fundamental commercial requirement for any country to attract and maintain international business anyway and similarly strong encryption is currently used pervasively in traditional VPNs on both wired and wireless networks in order to protect corporate and government communications.

Source: http://www.securityweek.com/rim-statement-india-demands-access-messaging-services-no-ability-provide-its-customers%E2%80%99-encryption-k [securityweek.com]

I took this as "fuck off, but I guess they got a wizard to, in some way, hand governments unencrypted data without decrypting it?

*sigh*

Re:RIM had a very different tune Thursday (2, Informative)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249364)

I think there's a difference in the encryption levels for emails (BlackBerry Enterprise Server) vs instant messaging (BlackBerry Messenger).

At least, according to the video link provided by AC, way below: http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=157644 [ndtv.com]

So what happens is, RIM provides the decryption codes for instant messaging. The emails, however, cannot be decrypted, since RIM does not have the codes - they're stored locally on BlackBerry Enterprise Servers, which are set up locally within company premises.

Or so the story goes.

Fuck you RIM (1)

Local ID10T (790134) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249158)

I understand its just business, and $ win, but you have lost a customer.

Keep it up, and I hope you go bankrupt.

Re:Fuck you RIM (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249274)

So instead you will go to one of the companies that India/Saudi Arabia did not have to threaten to get the data they wanted? ie the ones they did not have any trouble cracking?

Re:Fuck you RIM (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249390)

Yes. That's because "no news is good news". Therefore, the others must be superior to RIM/Blackberry.

Watch: How BlackBerry encrypts its emails (India) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249206)

hey white american teenagers!
watch this and remember: the indians, the chinese and the russians are gonna eat your lunch (cue crazy laugh) ;)
http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=157644

Re:Watch: How BlackBerry encrypts its emails (Indi (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249348)

From the video (3:12):

When Blackberry told the Indian government: India needed a lesson on the Internet.

Hahahaha! But that's not realistic anyway - Indians know as much as us.

---

The key thing is this: It's encrypted data at the cellular operators. ... The government actually monitors here - cellular operators. ... "We don't want to monitor the Internet, we are monitoring only here, because we are interested in mobile phones used by terrorists, not by Internet being used."

Which RIM refused - to decrypt the emails.

---
However, Blackberry messages (instant messaging) is done at a much lower encryption level (which the video calls "scrambling"). To unscramble, you only require the PIN and Blackberry code. Which RIM has (according to the video) given to the Saudi government.

Interesting video.

So, there is no security in BB? (1)

MrJones (4691) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249284)

Well, RIM will never confirm this deal because if he does, the Blackberry bussiness is going down.

This may confirm what we all know, there is always back doors. No matter how long the encryption key is advertized, my email password is always reaching my server in just plain text (sometimes over ssl) and there is where the fun is.

Have to wonder ... (1)

PinkyGigglebrain (730753) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249298)

Just how many of the Mumbai attackers were using Blackberrys? And how many will, as already pointed out, just use something else. Plain old walkie-talkies and code words maybe?

Re:Have to wonder ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249454)

And how many will, as already pointed out, just use something else. Plain old walkie-talkies and code words maybe?

Just using proper English would confuse the fuck out of most Indians.

Re:Have to wonder ... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249966)

Um... so most people are not proficient in non-native languages. Oh wow, you've really stumbled upon something new here. zzzz

Re:Have to wonder ... (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250138)

"Just using proper English would confuse the fuck out of most Americans"

FTFY

And, I'm more serious than you probably think. I can sit in any public place, and listen to a group of young kids (you know, young kids - twenties and thirties) talking, and not understand a word they've said. Buncha little pricks learned NOTHING in school!

I need details (1)

jarrettwold2002 (601633) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249382)

I understand RIM has business interests, but there should be very specific details about where, when and how that information can be decrypted. If foreign governments who have embassies in India will be subject to the same decryption methods. If american subsidiaries will be subject to this etc...

This affects more than the security of India. It affects every bit of interest (government, business, individual) that uses BlackBerry coming in and out of the area.

Why malign Pakistan or Blackberry? (-1, Troll)

ChilyWily (162187) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249398)

If there is anger, it should be towards the Indian Government that uses excuses to mistrusts is own people and at its Draconian measures against Indians.

Blackberry has no choice in this matter, and neither does Pakistan. Easy to blame another when you want to do something wrong yourself.

Bah!

Re:Why malign Pakistan or Blackberry? (2, Insightful)

dooode (1134443) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249432)

Pakistan has been the (alleged and many a times proven) source of funding for most terrorist attacks. Blackberry has been the alleged/potential medium for communication for terrorists that can not be traced. I see nothing draconian about Indian government requesting Blackberry asking for tracking their data, specially when ever other telecom provider does.

Btw. even today there is a news headline about how Indian police cracked a murder victim by tracking his cellphone calls:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Infosys-manager-confesses-to-killing-wife-held/articleshow/6308212.cms [indiatimes.com]

May be Indian police men are not able to track such communications in Blackberries.

Re:Why malign Pakistan or Blackberry? (0, Flamebait)

BangaIorean (1848966) | more than 3 years ago | (#33250026)

I stopped reading when I saw the 'neither does Pakistan' bit. Would be good if you did a Google search for 'Pakistan ISI terrorist support wikileaks'. You will change your opinion pretty soon.

Bias Articles (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249412)

This is a joke. When the article was about Saudi Arabia the article showed how ignorant, backward, and censored they are.
Here when it comes to India. Oh yea they blocked it because the "Pakistani"-Based militants! It is their right to have local RIM servers.

Saudi blocked for security reasons just like UAE. which mainly came from the assassination that happened few months ago.

Pakistani-based (0, Troll)

nick_davison (217681) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249430)

"Pakistani-based militants used mobile and satellite phones..."

Were they Pakistani? Or Pakistan-based?

Just like a person can be English or England-based but there's no such thing as English-based person, there's no such thing as a Pakistani-based person.

Grammar nazi? Perhaps. But it's kind of unfortunate when we can't even get regional cultural terms right before setting ourselves up as experts and discussing the nuances of what's morally right or wrong for that region.

You have 23,408 new text messages. (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249460)

Hello, I m a Indonesian Blackberry usr.
My country is spyin on me and I got 2 get a lot of $$$ out of the country.
Plz help. Let me store sum $$$ in ur bank 4 a bit.
txt me the acnt num, U can has interest 4 thx.

End to end encryption (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249472)

In the end, to be safe and secure, set up your own end to end encryption system.

so... (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249568)

Does are these countries also Banning SSL? Anyone that gave a shit could easily set up webmail with any one of thousands of hosts. I don't see how this does anything except make RIM look like a giant bunch of pussies. Most companies force their employees to use blackberries for the very reason that they think they are secure. Is that going to continue when not only are they insecure but they are publicly being monitored by countries that are world renown for their corruption? What happens when I fly to these countries? Does rim just hand over my account wholesale? Or do they just get access to what I do there? Or are these servers full mirrors already, so even what I do in the "free" world is indexed?

And I quit using Blackberry already (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249682)

Given that RIM never actually lets go of the handsets after their sale, I have always felt a little uncomfortable about their vendor lock-in model. After all, it is a model that makes even Apple and Microsoft jealous as they have managed to pull it off without too much discussion or resistance at all. The only time you hear about it is when their network servers go down for a global blackout. And even then people complain "dumb network model" and not "greedy business model."

We don't know the limits of the information these governments (and those who have access to the governments) may have. And frankly, I don't like it.

So as of two days ago, it is "rooted android" for me... and it was long over due... damned crackberry kept me addicted for so long.

Yes that's always it, isn't it (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#33249806)

Much of the fear comes from worries about terrorists

      I suspect that the rest of the fear comes from worries about pedophiles.

      I mean, those are the two biggest excuses to subvert freedom and expand government power in the West, so why not in India, right?

Chill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33249926)

RIM gave them access to encrypted data. RIM has no access to the unencrypted data, they don't have the private keys. Much like giving access to your SSL communication data. RIM will not make a big fuss about it, to help those countries to save face.

While many complains about the fact that all data goes though the BB enterprise server, that's what is guaranteeing that all wireless data is controlled by the enterprise and secured between the BES and the devices. Once on the BES (from the wireless network), BB data travel via the Internet and is facing the exact same challenges as any other secure protocol over the Internet. If countries want to have access to their citizens BB communications, the best way is to get a court order (or whatever relevant) to install an eye dropping software on the BES or BIS.

And by the way, the argument that all BB users can exchange messages without government intercepting in their own soil is ludicrous. All wireless service provider can run BIS in their network, thus being in reach of national authorities to get access to the content.

Of course with a lot of determination, they may get access some data, and in 10-20 years most if it if not all (provided they are willing to keep it all that time).

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