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Happy 17th Birthday, Debian!

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the august-is-interesting dept.

Debian 225

An anonymous reader writes "Debian turns 17 today. Yes it has really come a long way from being Murdock's pet project back in 1993 to being the distribution on which the most popular Linux distribution, Ubuntu, is now based."

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Thank you (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264248)

Thanks Murdock! This distro is still one of the easiest to maintain over a long period of time.

Re:Thank you (4, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264628)

Damn right it is. Debian is the distro you install on your mom's computer when you're moving 2000+ miles and don't want to fly home for tech support.

Over the course of two years, I've had exactly one problem with that box, and all it needed was a phone call + ssh.

Re:Thank you (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264680)

Damn right it is. Debian is the distro you install on your mom's computer when you're moving 2000+ miles and don't want to fly home for tech support.

Over the course of two years, I've had exactly one problem with that box, and all it needed was a phone call + ssh.

Yeah Debian is awesome. If they work really hard they might get around to releasing Firefox 2.0.0 for their "stable" distribution by next year. Let's all keep our fingers crossed on that one.

Re:Thank you (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264718)

2003 called. It wants its dipshit back. It's sending a reply-paid time machine for you to get in.

You mean Iceweasel? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264856)

It's at 3.0.6, and in stable (lenny).

http://packages.debian.net/lenny/iceweasel [debian.net]

HTH

Re:Thank you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33265084)

Damn right it is. Debian is the distro you install on your mom's computer when you're moving 2000+ miles and don't want to fly home for tech support.

Over the course of two years, I've had exactly one problem with that box, and all it needed was a phone call + ssh.

Yeah Debian is awesome. If they work really hard they might get around to releasing Firefox 2.0.0 for their "stable" distribution by next year. Let's all keep our fingers crossed on that one.

Damn you guys are oversensitive and can't take a joke. Is that a requirement of moderators these days? To like something in such a one-sided fanboyish way that you must get offended and could never laugh when someone pokes fun at it? I mean, for blatant flames I could see it, but this was a harmless joke. What a sad existence to be so defensive and humor-impaired. You surely must spend a great portion of your day getting irritated or offended at something.

Re:Thank you (2, Informative)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265184)

"Damn right it is. Debian is the distro you install on your mom's computer when you're moving 2000+ miles and don't want to fly home for tech support."

Last week I did just that. I installed it on your mom's compu... Nah, just kidding. But, I did install Debian on a relative's brand new box. He is 79 and was very satisifed. He has been using Debian for several years, and I upgrade once a year.

Re:Thank you (0, Troll)

helix2301 (1105613) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265064)

I agree ubuntu is the best distro around thanks Murdock.

I remember my first Debian... (4, Insightful)

e065c8515d206cb0e190 (1785896) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264252)

I was coming from Slackware and apt-get seemed magical. Never left the boat since.
Long life to Debian!

Re:I remember my first Debian... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264440)

True enough! Debian was the best idea around when they started introducing the concept of dependency resolution and meta data. It has been one of my faves ever since.

Re:I remember my first Debian... (3, Insightful)

hcpxvi (773888) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264688)

I was coming from Slackware and apt-get seemed magical.
I was coming from being an ordinary user on Solaris systems. Installing Debian (from a stack of floppies!) and finding myself logged on as root was magical. I also have stuck with Debian ever since. It's just excellent. A huge cheer for the vast crowd of people who make it possible.

Boiler up! (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264256)

Just happen to be on campus today, maybe I'll go over to the CS building and pour one out.

Debian or IE to last? (2, Interesting)

netsuhi.com (1867770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264262)

So there are two important aprts of the internet with birthdays very close together. I wonder if Debian or IE will last the longest?

Re:Debian or IE to last? (4, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264372)

In terms of name, my bet would be on IE. If the Debian leaders manage to act retarded enough the community might have to fork and pick a new name but the project would live on. While with IE I figure there's a good chance Microsoft will eventually figure out that developing their own browser engine is a waste of resources and create their own Webkit-based browser, but still under the IE name. So one could have the same content with a different name, the other different content with the same name.

Re:Debian or IE to last? (2, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264560)

You seriously think Microsoft will embrace an LGPL browser engine? Originally from the KDE project?

Re:Debian or IE to last? (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264614)

And actively developed by their direct competitor in nearly all fields, Apple?

Re:Debian or IE to last? (2, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264878)

If it is the cheapest way to get developers churning out c# applications running on Server2008/MSSQL/Azure on the back and Silverlight on the front, yeah I could imagine them doing that.

The horse has very much left the barn(for all but the most ossified projects that are also millstones around Microsoft's neck because they don't want to deal with IE6 anymore) when it comes to controlling the internet by being the de-facto HTML renderer and being a real oddball about it.

If, however, MS can reduce HTML to the header and footer that you wrap around your XAMLtastic chunk of Silverlight, the could easily save considerable money and lose essentially no influence by putting trident on ice(as some "compatibility mode", enableable by group policy for the corporate types) and switching to cheaper webkit for embedding silverlight objects.

Re:Debian or IE to last? (1)

Orange Crush (934731) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265110)

Between Apple, Google, RIM & HP/Palm all using WebKit, it looks poised to become the dominant mobile browser engine. If that happens, I think MS may swallow their pride and follow suit. Why keep spending money on their own engine just to play catch-up? It could be a wise business decision in the near future.

Re:Debian or IE to last? (2, Interesting)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265348)

Playing catch-up can be immensely profitable if you also sell web services that aren't as well supported by the competing browsers, especially if the competition's web services depend on other browsers: MS Web service users will be forced to use IE, IE users will choose MS Web services. Apple plays the same game with media formats. It's called lock-in.

If they consider that, they'll consider anything. (2, Funny)

itomato (91092) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265392)

MS would rather step over them all to where they estimate things will go rather than resign to being an late starting also-ran.

If those guys are all occupied with WebKit, it frees MS to do something bold.

Re:Debian or IE to last? (2, Interesting)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264746)

What? Apple's Safari also uses it! You're not going to suggest Microsoft to copy something from Apple do you? They would never do so!

Oh, wait...

Re:Debian or IE to last? (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265280)

What "Internet Explorer" are you talking about? It has already been renamed to "Windows Internet Explorer", so the contest which name will last longer is already over.

And, also: die, WIE, die!

Re:Debian or IE to last? (2, Insightful)

richdun (672214) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264416)

Depends on what you mean by "last."

Debian will probably be kicking around on someone's toy web server or overly complex but overly awesome home file server for as long as there is someone either willing to get the kernel working on whatever hardware is available or rig up a network protocol to talk to our future brain/computer overlords.

IE will probably remain commercially relevant longer, sadly, for as long as there are corporations, there will be that one piece of mission critical software written X years ago that runs only on IE 6.0.

Re:Debian or IE to last? (1)

tokul (682258) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265008)

So there are two important aprts of the internet with birthdays very close together. I wonder if Debian or IE will last the longest?

They are not close enough. Only some people want to celebrate things one month ahead of schedule. They couldn't wait for Friday and get drunk as usual. I guess hangover from three day drinking kicked in.

First Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264266)

First Post! YAY! Oh, and yeah, happy happy, etc.

So next year... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264274)

... Debian can fsck all it wants ;)

Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (5, Insightful)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264282)

It's actually kind of sad that most people identify Debian solely as being "that one that Ubuntu's based on".

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (4, Insightful)

druke (1576491) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264334)

Anyone who really feels this way doesn't understand open source.

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (4, Insightful)

e065c8515d206cb0e190 (1785896) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264426)

Is it about understanding Open Source? Or giving credit where credit is due?

I'm not saying the guys at Ubuntu just sit there and do nothing, but Debian deserves way more than being called "the distro Ubuntu is based on".

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (5, Funny)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264552)

Okay lemme make sure I have this straight...

Premise 1:
Being a Debian user for 15 years I'm sad to see it relegated to being only identified in the mainstream as something that a dumbed-down desktop distro is based on.

Premise 2:
Anyone who feels that way doesn't understand open source.

Therefore:
I don't understand open source.

It's all crystal clear to me now. My eyes have been opened.

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264612)

Being a Debian user for 15 years I'm sad to see it relegated to being only identified in the mainstream as something that a dumbed-down desktop distro is based on.

Premise 3: Bitter much? Does it sting, the cold realization that the object of your fandom won't live forever?

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (3, Funny)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264656)

Did you just pose a question as a premise?

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264834)

Did you just pose a question as a premise?

*looks around cagily*

*hangs head in shame* Yes. :-(

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (5, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264986)

Being a Debian user for 15 years I'm sad to see it relegated to being only identified in the mainstream as something that a dumbed-down desktop distro is based on.

As opposed to what?

Look, my path to Linux took me through Slackware 15 years ago (wow I don't miss installing Linux from dozens of floppies) through RedHat, and then Debian. And I was happy for a while. Sure, Debian packages are decidedly archaic, but you couldn't ask for a more stable Linux distribution. Everything just seemed to work.

And then I tried Ubuntu. Suddenly things I just assumed wouldn't work out of the box (basic crap like wireless, USB printers and mass storage devices just working and integrating with the desktop, and god knows what else) just... did. I mean, sure, I could always get Debian there eventually, with enough tinkering. But dear god, Ubuntu did all the tinkering for me! And I got a more modern package set to boot. Not to mention PPAs, which make taking on non-standard repositories dead simple.

So, because Ubuntu took the rather rough diamond that is Debian and polished it up, it's somehow "dumbed down"? Really?

Frankly, it seems to me there is a choice: either you run a rough distro that forces the user to roll up their sleeves and get dirty, and then you can feel all smart and superior, or you can make something that actually works for your average user, and lets us power users just fucking get on with it already, and then get labeled "dumbed down". Which is, frankly, pretty fucking stupid, but such is the world of tech geeks who feel its cool to have to manually hack files in /etc in order to get their god damned printer to just print already.

PS. Debian, seriously, you guys rock. (5, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265198)

'course, I just realized my post makes it seem like I think Debian sucks.

Frankly, Debian kicks ass. For a server, I'd consider nothing else. I've long believed that apt is, hands down, the best package management system ever invented. And Debian has done a truly marvelous job of ensuring that upgrades Just Work... unlike Ubuntu or Redhat, I have never feared doing a full distro update on Debian. Their package quality is simply through the roof (well, minus that pesky sshd bug they introduced ;).

Heck, I should given Debian a try again. It's been a couple years since I made the leap to Ubuntu, and it may be that Debian unstable could now fill the roll that Ubuntu fills for me today (as a modern desktop distro)... particularly given how incredibly painful Ubuntu in-place upgrades can be. OTOH, I am spoiled by the fact that Ubuntu has the nVidia blob drivers incorporated into their software repo...

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (4, Interesting)

CrkHead (27176) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265250)

I think you summed it up fairly well.

As a project, Debian is most interested in Freedom and stability. Although someone coming from a *nix back ground shouldn't have much trouble, someone new to computers or coming over from one of the dark sides is likely to.

Enter Ubuntu. Their primary interest is getting Linux on the desktop. Debian is an ideal base because it has everything, so you just need to keep current on the unstable version and put some chrome on it.

Grey beards keep their Debian and the whipper snappers stay off the lawn.

This from a debian user (5, Funny)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265356)

Men use Gentoo. REAL Men use Linux from scratch. REALLY REAL MEN, write their own OS.

Debian is for wussies. Ubuntu is for wussies who at least have the balls to admit they are wussies.

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (-1, Flamebait)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265546)

Anyone who really feels this way doesn't understand open source.

I see it as a complex project worked on by volunteers in their free time.

If you want to see it as propagation of open source ideals, and merely a stepping stone towards some greater purpose, then you are by definition a FREETARD.
Take your religion elsewhere. Volunteer efforts drive most of open source, respect that.

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (4, Interesting)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264374)

Actually most base Ubuntu as "That one that's based on Debian".
I refer to it as Red Hat on training wheels :)

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264576)

no that would be mandrivia or fedora

both the last time I tried (admittedly quite a while back) had broken rpm systems and GCC was borked, I couldnt imagine paying money for it

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264724)

So what's that make Redhat? Ubuntu but with a fork in the eye if you want to change anything?

Snark aside, upgrading an RPM system still makes me nervous - not as nervous as rebuilding a BSD system's ports or something similar on Gentoo or slackware, but certainly more so than on Debian. Even Ubuntu is less of a nightmare when it breaks.

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (1)

cparker15 (779546) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265396)

The last time I used Fedora, it was as easy as using Debian. yum felt a lot like aptitude. No more dependency hell!

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (5, Insightful)

Kepesk (1093871) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264542)

It's actually kind of sad that most people identify Debian solely as being "that one that Ubuntu's based on".

Not really, I'd say that's a compliment to Debian. To create a basic system solid enough that the most popular Linux distribution is based on it? That rocks!

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (4, Insightful)

StormReaver (59959) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264602)

It's actually kind of sad that most people identify Debian solely as being "that one that Ubuntu's based on".

Why? Debian is incapable of appealing to a mass audience. Ubuntu is a necessary extension that fills that need. Debian is exactly where its developers put it.

Eh? Flip those.. (2, Interesting)

itomato (91092) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265426)

Mass audiences are incapable of finding appeal in Debian. ..for good reason.

What appeal could they find in a well organized toolbox, when all they really want is a shiny red hammer?

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264698)

It's actually kind of sad that most people identify Debian solely as being "that one that Ubuntu's based on".

Why? Forks and derivatives are what make OSS great, no?

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264708)

Nonsense. Ubuntu is that one based on Debian, but with more crap and less clean.

Re:Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that (1)

cparker15 (779546) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265414)

And less uptime!

Parallel to Godwin's Law (1)

Ukab the Great (87152) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265368)

As an online discussion decomposing the software stack of a linux distribution grows longer, the probability of RMS bursting in and saying "It's actually kind of sad that most people soley identify the GNU toolchain environment as 'Linux', which is just kernel." approaches 1.

Props to Debian, father of Mepis! (3, Interesting)

darealpat (826858) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264294)

So far as being easy to use goes, I give Mepis more marks than its more popular cousin Ubuntu. Those that have tried it will understand. And I am not a KDE fan boy, not with my fond memories of RH 7.2

Re:Props to Debian, father of Mepis! (1)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264626)

And I am not a KDE fan boy, not with my fond memories of RH 7.2

9 years does quite a bit to change things.
KDE and Gnome are neck and neck nowadays, in my eyes.
That being said, I always fall back to Window Maker.

apt-get install love (4, Interesting)

doublebackslash (702979) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264314)

Debian, making installing dependencies a reflex rather than a compulsory chore. That alone would have gotten my praise. Then they also bolted on an incredibly stable and useful kernel and software stack on top of that.

Good show! (I know I got the order wrong, but thats the order of importance to me)

Re:apt-get install love (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264492)

still prefer dselect update ; dselect select ; dselect install

Re:apt-get install love (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264820)

Apt works great, true.

Though it's not much better than my latest experiences with Mandriva, an RPM based distro. I have had quite a share of problems with RPM and dependencies... but this seems to have been solved quite well by now.

That said: running Debian as server, and I love it. Super stable, it just works, nothing to worry about there.

Running Ubuntu 10.4LTS as desktop now. Not happy. The user interface is great, but the system is unstable. I experience crashes, software weirdness (network that doesn't start on boot! Had to manually fix that using initrd!), etc - just not fun. Strongly considering moving back to Mandriva. Partly because I miss their management tools.

Re:apt-get install love (4, Insightful)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265108)

I really, really wish people would stop comparing Apt and RPM, the actual comparison would be dpkg vs RPM. And just as pretty much nobody uses dpkg directly, the same applies to RPM. People use one of the various frontends (yum, urpmi, what have you). While at one time automatically resolving dependencies was godsend, it's nothing special now.

(I'm quite impartial to the debate, pacman [archlinux.org] is where it's at. It would be nice to see an actual apples to apples comparison for a change though)

Damn you slashdot (5, Informative)

Spyware23 (1260322) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264322)

Is there -any- possible reason for this ./ article to link to http://digitizor.com/2010/08/16/happy-17th-birthday-debian-and-some-interesting-history/ [digitizor.com] instead of linking to the _official_ birthday page: http://thank.debian.net/ [debian.net] Also, like kwebbles mentioned, it's really sad you sad to bring up Ubuntu. It's Debian's birthday, you insensitive clods.

Re:Damn you slashdot (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264376)

Maybe because the article has useful info and is interesting to read, while the 'official page' you linked feels like it belongs on geocities in the age of the blink tag?

Re:Damn you slashdot (3, Informative)

Spyware23 (1260322) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264858)

Useful info? That digitizor website included a useless "trivia" list to make the article seem bigger. Seem. Fine, if there has to be a news-post, link to the official debian.net post: http://news.debian.net/2010/08/16/happy-birthday-debian-2/ [debian.net]

Re:Damn you slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264886)

WTF slashdot? I picked insightful, the highlight was on insightful, and once I released the mouse button, the select dropdown closed and the select box read Redundant. Undoing mods.

Yeah, really - what the hell is that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264996)

My daughter did not just turn 5..

The page itself is GPL, and attributed to one of the Women of Debian (http://women.debian.org/profiles/#Margarita Manterola)

Happy birthday (4, Insightful)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264330)

To the distro I keep crawling back to. I always go off searching for the next great thing, and realise debian was the great thing all along.

And ubuntu is second rate (at best) compared to debian. Ubuntu's got severe stability problems. debian almost never fails me.

Re:Happy birthday (3, Insightful)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264586)

Why are you always going off to search for the next great thing if Debian is so good?

I've dual booted myself, but only to try out different distros (like debian, ubuntu, etc) - I've never been "off to search for the next great thing". If you're happy with what you've got - stick with it. New distros tend to be either specialised in one field, or tweaked beyond useful (read ubuntu). Stick with the good old ones, that you know work, and try to help them instead! :o)

(Personally, I'm sticking with Slackware)

Re:Happy birthday (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264766)

We used to have Linux snobs who were snobs because Windows and MacOS were popular. Now it seems we have Linux snobs who are also snobs about some Linux distros because those are popular. But don't worry fellas, one of the great strengths of open source is that there will always be more trendy and elitist distros coming down the line.

Re:Happy birthday (1)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265022)

Because I always wonder if they can actually be better.

Re:Happy birthday (3, Insightful)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264866)

"Ubuntu's got severe stability problems."

Such a bald-ass simple statement really requires back up. I've not had ANY stability problems, much less severe. And I've been running this distro since Feisty Fawn. The worst thing about Ubuntu that I've ever experienced is its ridiculous desktop color schemes, and they never seem to get any better, but that's easily changed.

Re:Happy birthday (2, Informative)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265226)

This is /. I'm all about the hyperbole.

In all seriousness, though, there's plenty of documented issues. Many of which have bitten me or a friend/colleague:

- Pressing the 'wireless lock' button on a coworker's netbook would kernel panic.
- My wife's netbook would randomly crash, and on reboot have lost half its filesystem.
- Major (recent) releases have shipped without working WPA.

And yes, I understand many of these may be upstream's fault, or someone outside of the Ubuntu world, but these same issues didn't impact other distros.

Ubuntu seems to put more effort into making it pretty and changing the UI than making it stable.

Re:Happy birthday (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265496)

- Pressing the 'wireless lock' button on a coworker's netbook would kernel panic.

Not on mine, nor anyone else I know. So you offer one personal event as proof that the distro is flawed? Not good enough.

- My wife's netbook would randomly crash, and on reboot have lost half its filesystem.

Never seen a corruption of any file system, EVER. Same as first point.

- Major (recent) releases have shipped without working WPA.

Really? Which ones? WPA security is all I've ever used (as using WEP is foolish) and in fact I've use it with both TKIP and AES, and never had a problem. So which release specifically had a problem? Remember, I've been using it since Fiesty.

Re:Happy birthday (2, Interesting)

mikael_j (106439) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265290)

You should check out the Ubuntu forums after a new release, it's obvious that they tend to overlook things they shouldn't be overlooking.

Over the years they've managed some pretty neat fuck-ups such as replacing the disk encryption system without testing if it was possible to migrate encrypted volumes (it wasn't, not without serious pains anyway) and randomly breaking all sorts of "little" things.

And I have no idead what they've done with the networking subsystem but I'd love to know why Ubuntu is the only OS/distro I'm consistently having network issues with (if I enable IPv6 on an interface using the GUI tools it nukes the entire interface and sometimes the only thing that helps is wiping the config for that interface and either rebooting or restarting everything but the kernel). This is on several machines and networks and a problem I have not had with Debian, Slackware, FreeBSD, OS X or any other OS with IPv6 support...

Oh, and I just loved how my Ubuntu 9.10 desktop decided that since I already had a font package it wanted to install installed when upgrading to 10.04 LTS it should deinstall the xserver-xorg-core package without telling me...

Yes, Ubuntu has issues since it tries to stay bleeding edge and isn't nearly as concerned with stability as many more mature distros are.

Re:Happy birthday (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265522)

"You should check out the Ubuntu forums after a new release..."

This goes for any release of anything under the sun. The rest of your objections I've not had any experience with, except to say that I can definitely say that I've not had any problems with ipv6 WITH ipv4.

Thank You for Debian (5, Informative)

samoht (101985) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264340)

If you want to say thanks:

http://thank.debian.net/ [debian.net]

Re:Thank You for Debian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264690)

Re:Thank You for Debian (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264702)

I am rather disappointed that I can't burst the floaty balloons by clicking on them. ;)

Re:Thank You for Debian (3, Funny)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264908)

That was the first thing I tried when I loaded the page.

Let me know when Linux turns 20 (0, Offtopic)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264364)

I'll post it on facebook. Seriously. When does the big Two-Oh happen? 2012?

Meanwhile Commodore=64 GEOS, Amiga, Atari ST, and Windows OS are celebrating their 25th this year. MS-DOS is now over-the-hill at 30 (things not as firm... not as perky as they used to be).

Re:Let me know when Linux turns 20 (0)

nschubach (922175) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264478)

Um, 2010 (is 17 years) + 3 = 2013 (is 20 years.)

Re:Let me know when Linux turns 20 (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264488)

Sorry, I didn't see you posted half your thought in the Subject line.

Wrong about one of those (4, Informative)

temojen (678985) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264726)

Windows NT was first released in 1993, making it the same age as Debian. Before NT, windows was a user interface on top of DOS, not an OS on it's own (although it was doing VM as of 3.1 and networking as of 3.11, but not it's own filesystem management).

Re:Wrong about one of those (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33265282)

While NT was a huge break from the original Windows, this is incorrect. Pre-NT co-existed with DOS in some ways, but Windows 95 did have its own device drivers.

See also this blog post from Microsoft's Raymond Chen [msdn.com] .

Re:Wrong about one of those (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265332)

Windows NT beat Windows 95 to the market, so while you're correct that 95 was not just a shell sitting on top of DOS, it was also not pre-NT.

Re:Let me know when Linux turns 20 (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265076)

What software is twenty years old on 21 Dec 2012?

Almost (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264402)

It's almost as good as Windows!

Re:Almost (2, Funny)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264660)

Better... Windows doesn't run Linux code right.

Grammar, anyone? (0, Offtopic)

ShaunC (203807) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264464)

the distribution on which the most popular Linux distribution, Ubuntu, is based on now

...what?

They grow up so fast (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33264524)

When did having birthday parties for software programs become all the rage? It's almost as disturbing as how so many of these programs are now teenagers. Here's some of the drama we'll be able to look forward to over the next year:

- Internet Explorer will get its driver's license and crash its first car, because everyone knows how unstable it is.
- Debian will join the Army rather than go to college, as mandated by the Debian Constitution. And because it has no friends.
- OS X will pick a fight with Firefox on the elementary school playground after Firefox steals on WebKit's lunch money.
- Windows will be that creepy adult chaperone that hangs around at, like, every high school dance because it wants to be cool.

Re:They grow up so fast (1)

Haffner (1349071) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264736)

2 Birthday posts from Slashdot within a few hours... Is today really that slow?

Re:They grow up so fast (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264740)

Hey, hey, that's not it at all.

It's just that next year, Debian will be legal. :)

Re:They grow up so fast (3, Funny)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265042)

It's just that next year, Debian will be legal. :)

Yeah, and then we can share images of Debian all over the internet... no, wait....

Re:They grow up so fast (5, Funny)

phormalitize (1748504) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264744)

Gentoo will finally snap, bring a rifle to school, and go on a murderous rampage when it realizes that 99% of the world will never truly understand it.

Re:They grow up so fast (1)

zbyg (1662741) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264796)

Internet Explorer will get its driver's license and crash its first car

And hopefully die

Re:They grow up so fast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33265430)

Everybody knows IE has been crashing since it was 0...

DFSG (2, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264812)

The main advantage I got out of Debian rapidly approaching 15 years ago was the DFSG Debian Free Software Guidelines

http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines [debian.org]

That saved me from a mighty holy war being brewed up by the IT department. They tolerated it and left the engineering department alone, which worked pretty well.

Happy Birthday, Manifesto! (3, Insightful)

volkerdi (9854) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264870)

Anyone who was actually using Linux in 1993 knows the manifesto came a couple of years before anything else.

Google (5, Funny)

phrostie (121428) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264928)

What, and no custom page from Google?

I feel unloved.

Don't knock Ubuntu (4, Interesting)

rueger (210566) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264938)

I don't entirely get all of the Ubuntu complaints.

Over the years I tried maybe fifteen or twenty different Linux distros. (back to the days of buying boxed sets of Mandrake floppy disks!) Each time I went back to Windows because I invariably ran into some problem that I just didn't have the time to figure out and fix. You know, little things like printers, modems, and video.

It's not that I don't like fixing things, or even learning new stuff, just that with Linux it was always so damned painful.

Two months ago I installed Ubuntu using their little Windows installer app, and I haven't looked back. Aside from one occasion when a specific Windows program wouldn't run under WINE, I have had no reason to fire up Windows. And when I did.. well, yuck.

You may call Ubuntu "dumbed down", but it's honestly the first distro I've seen that worked flawlessly out of the box with virtually no fiddling.

And of course you can still fire up a terminal window and enjoy the command line.

Re:Don't knock Ubuntu (2, Funny)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265360)

I once had to patch the vfat file system driver in a development kernel so that I could save my History paper to disk and take it in to school because that was easier than getting my non-postscript printer to work. Screw printers.

You are like a rambling madman! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33265494)

Do you realize what you are implying? That the linux distro flamewars on /. are completely irrelevant in real world? That is blasphemous! Even more so... You imply that nobody should care about the Slashdot-elitists who moan "I use a distro that is so much harder to use than the one you like!"!! Gasp!

Honestly... Ubuntu is quite awesome package when it comes to desktop use. I am a sophomore year software engineering student so I'm at least computer literate by any standards... Yet I keep going back to Ubuntu. The previous time I tried Debian I ran into numerous problems with wifi drivers. The wireless card should have been supported on Linux (Ubuntu wikis said so and I didn't bother to check separately for Debian... Stupid me.) but it took an hour to google the debian drivers (numerous dead links, etc.) and then I couldn't compile them. Didn't even get past 'make'. Another two hours of debugging for no avail, asking help from friends, etc... And at that point I asked myself "Why am I doing this?", installed Ubuntu and everything worked out of the box. I could probably have gotten the drivers from ubuntu repos somehow and gotten them to work on Debian but I really can't see the point in that... When it comes to desktop, Ubuntu usually just works a lot better than Debian. Hell, Ubuntu supports - out of the box many - devices that windows doesn't! People say that Redhat would just work too. Perhaps it is true, I haven't tried recently. (Some five years ago "just works" certainly wasn't my experience when it came to my ethernet card...) If you want to call that "dumbed down", fine. You are probably an idiot.

It is obvious that there is a lot of stuff for which Ubuntu isn't the optimal choice and plain old Debian triumphs. I think that most people understood the concept of different distros years ago: Some distros are good for some things, others are good for other things... Distro might be great for desktop while not being the best one around for enterprise servers. There always appears to be people who don't get that, though.

Re:Don't knock Ubuntu (5, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33265524)

Simple: geeks like to justify their superiority complex.

No, really. I started off in the bad old Slackware days, and you couldn't help but feel hardcore when you got your damned printer to work after fiddling with lpd and magic filters. But guess what happens as you get a little older? You stop giving a shit about that stuff. You just want to get on with it, already. Suddenly tweaking and fiddling with config files in /etc doesn't feel hardcore, it feels really fucking boring.

So while the rest of us pick a distro that just works out of the box, and so is labeled "dumbed down" because we don't have to manually edit config files, the young geeks can go on showing off how awesome they are because they switched to Gentoo and get to fiddle with their compiler flags.

As an aside, I still think Debian kicks ass. But no one would ever claim its a polished desktop Linux distribution (it can certainly become one with a bit of effort, but I've gotten past enjoying that kind of effort)... for a server, though, it's peerless, IMHO.

In honor of (0, Troll)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 4 years ago | (#33264946)

To honor it like we do 9/11, we should build a Windows Help Desk on the site.

ARM Debia on a NSLU2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33265140)

I love my Debian NSLU2 installation. It's very stable and very easy to administrate. Love having the ability to back up my netbook into a cvs repository on the road. It's quiet, uses little energy, and I don't even have to think about it. Squirrel Mail was even easy to set up. I love Debian and have used it since Debian 3.0 (Woody). Right now I am running Lenny on the NSLU2.

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