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Gestures With Multitouch In Ubuntu 10.10

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the touchy-feely dept.

Ubuntu 185

jitendraharlalka writes "Mark Shuttleworth recently announced on his blog that the first cut of Canonical's UTouch framework is ready and will be available in Ubuntu Maverick. He goes on to talk about the development of 'touch language' by the design team. The 'touch language' will allow the chaining of basic gestures to create complex gestures. The approach is quite different from the single magic gestures implemented elsewhere. In Maverick, a few Gtk applications will support gesture-based scrolling."

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One gesture (5, Funny)

dasdumper (1417669) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269386)

Maybe I can stop using the same gesture when my wifi card does not work.

Re:One gesture (0)

mjwx (966435) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271118)

Maybe I can stop using the same gesture when my wifi card does not work.

Last time I checked, Windows does not support that gesture, which is why I tend to use Ubuntu wherever possible.

However the last time I gave Windows the "Dead Rat" gesture, a voice said "welcome Mr Balmer".

Hardware support is still weak (3, Insightful)

vlueboy (1799360) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269406)

Other than specialty devices, hardware support is not even on the map.
I believe W7 already supports multitouch, joining the mac bandwagon. So, how long until non-laptops, non-cellphones start shipping with that, so that we can see an explosion in programmer response and API's?

Oh, and while we wait, it'd be good to find where I can buy a USB pad currently to add multi-touch support for a Windows desktop. Thanks

Re:Hardware support is still weak (2, Informative)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269448)

Where I can buy a USB pad currently to add multi-touch support for a Windows desktop?

http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/ [apple.com]

They mention "for your Mac" but a quick search shows that Apple has Windows drivers available.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269534)

They mention "for your Mac" but a quick search shows that Apple has Windows drivers available.

Thats because plenty of Mac's run Windows.

They didn't say 'For Mac OS X'.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (2, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270472)

plenty of Macs run Windows.

Plenty of PCs runs Mac OS X too... it just takes a lil' hack. [prasys.info]

Re:Hardware support is still weak (4, Interesting)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269694)

Speaking of drivers, I bought an HP printer with claims to support only Mac and Windows. Lo and behold, turns out there is a 'NIX driver, HPLIP, [wikipedia.org] that is very similar to typical Windows drivers in that it is a unified center of settings and even shows the HP logo in Ubuntu's taskbar.

Familiar-feeling stuff like that goes a long way toward spreading desktop Linux adoption. Yet, for some reason, they don't simply add it to their standard driver CD.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33270340)

The driver (ppd) is included, but not the administration center, as not all Ubuntu user use HP printers.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (4, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271396)

Vendor specific nonsense that ignores the standard interfaces across all operating systems (MacOS included) does squat to encourage adoption of Linux. If anything, lack of this sort of nonsense for Linux is actually a considerable net gain. Incidentally, Linux has been using the "MacOS printing system" since before Apple was.

If it were up to HP, I wouldn't be able to use my all-in-one as a network printer under Linux either.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1, Insightful)

gagol (583737) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272050)

Ever tried to install Ubuntu with only Wifi access? Yep, impossible, that is why one of my friend is still on Windows as his only connection available is a community wireless in his building. You need the net to download the wireless network drivers first. That because of political preference of Cannonical. This is the biggest flaw so far.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

FrostDust (1009075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272264)

Wouldn't it be possible for him to download the Linux drivers for his card while using Windows, put it on a USB drive, and then use that to install the drivers once Ubuntu's installed?

Also, it may not be a "political preference". You can only fit so many drivers on the install CD, alongside all of the other data.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

dave87656 (1179347) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272326)

I ran the Live-CD on my laptop with only Wifi. I didn't install it that way. I used Wubi so I couldn't say the it would install, but it supported my Wifi out of the box on the Live-CD so the driver is definitely there.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269904)

wacom has pretty good multitouch devices, i recently bought the bamboo fun touch, very nifty...
not that i use multitouch, it is a little to tiring for my hand...

Re:Hardware support is still weak (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269454)

windows * supports viruses, thats all. windows hasnt done anything new or useful for 18 years

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270122)

You know, I probably shouldn't feed the coward, but what the fuck, I'm bored. Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue, and then we'll talk. Because dad didn't want to wait until the weekend and installed Windows 7 HP without a SINGLE issue. It installed ALL the drivers automatically and even told him at first boot he didn't have an AV and pointed him to several free ones.

As for TFA, the problem with Ubuntu, at least the last time I used it (gave up on Ubuntu and Linux at 9.04) is NOT all the bling bling, it is the drivers. With Windows if there isn't a driver you can have it go to windows update and download it and install it, ALL GUI all the way. Action Center will even point out the problem so you don't have to even open up Control Panel anymore.

With Linux at the slightest hint of trouble it runs back to CLI like a child running to its mommy, and in this day and age average folks just ain't gonna deal with that CLI bullshit. Hell most folks walking into the shop won't even open control panel because they think its scary, you honestly think they'll go for "open up bash and type" BS? Especially considering it often has to be "tweaked" because it was designed for "hardware A rev b" and you have (which the average user will NEVER know) "Hardware D Rev G" so you have to "fix" a bunch of crap?

I really hoped that Canonical would do for Linux what Apple did for NeXT, but it is pretty obvious now that just ain't gonna be the case. Considering Shuttleworth has made it clear he wants Canonical self sustaining I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Ubuntu ends up being dumped on the community and Canonical goes strictly servers. It is pretty clear, at least to me, that the amount of R&D and bug fixing required to bring Ubuntu up to OSX and Windows 7 levels of polish is simply astronomical, and you ain't gonna get a bunch of volunteers to do the dirty suck jobs like bug fixing.

After setting up 4 Ubuntu boxes in my shop and running them from 6-9.04 in the hopes that like Apple and early OSX it would keep jumping up in quality, and instead finding a "three steps forward, 2 steps back" situation where one thing would get fixed while killing two others, not to mention tons of show stoppers like hardware that worked in 8 dying hard in 9, I have to admit I gave up. If it would take me, a guy that has dealt with PCs since the days of the 4MHz Intel CPUs, so much pain and headaches, how would my customers ever deal? I'm certainly not gonna give away lifetime support because Canonical can't keep from breaking drivers from one rev to the next (check out the Dell Ubuntu boxes. Notice they DISABLE the Canonical repos? That is because Canonical can't even be counted on not to break their OEM MACHINES. Great Q&A there guys) and if it takes more than a couple of hours to deal with it costs me more than a copy of Windows 7 Home.

Until someone does to a Linux distro what Jobs did with NeXT I'm gonna have to say I stand by my beliefs...Linux is GREAT on servers and SUCKS on desktops. Maybe if you are a geek or have a CS degree and don't mind playing "hunt the fix" when the latest updates break your wireless and sound it would be okay, but how many average folks are gonna fit that profile?

Ubuntu is the Windows me of the Linux world (2, Informative)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270378)

"Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY"

You can't show me ANY OS that meets that criteria. Windows certainly doesn't, but Mandriva Linux [mandriva.com] comes closest. It certainly supports all your hardware and when you plug a new device in it helpfully offers to grab the driver and support software and install it. It takes longer to install Windows than Mandriva, and when you are done installing Windows your job has just begun, since you still don't have any useful applications installed. With Mandriva I follow a few simple prompts and when I am done pretty much every application I could want is already installed, and it is easy as point and click to put anything else I might want on it. Seriously, the 1990s called and they want their Anti-Linux troll back.

Re:Ubuntu is the Windows me of the Linux world (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272366)

Sweet, now format a 3TB partition without falling to parted... Mandriva ain't the silver bullet you claim, boy did I find that out with my netbook. I settled on Ubuntu netbook edition as I know Ubuntu the best. Hardware support in Linux is pretty flaky but it's pretty flaky in Windows too. Windows 7 has improved the landscape considerably back in Microsoft's favor for hardware compatibility as there is much more driver support on the install DVD. Additionally, the install is now image based so you are incorrect, Mandriva will take longer on the same machine to install although neither take what I consider an arduous amount of time these days.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (5, Insightful)

turbidostato (878842) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270388)

"Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue, and then we'll talk."

Show me FIRST the Windows where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (3, Funny)

Narksos (1111317) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270576)

"Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue, and then we'll talk."

Show me FIRST the Windows where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue.

And then let said 67 year old clueless dad on the internet for 30 minutes and see if it still runs.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

TheCycoONE (913189) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270586)

I believe the gp stated Windows 7 fit that criteria...

Re:Hardware support is still weak (3, Informative)

Minwee (522556) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270748)

Then I want some of whatever he is smoking.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

dave87656 (1179347) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272386)

These are people who buy a PC with Windows installed and assume that Windows installation is where you enter your PC name and login name.

A windows fanboy friend of mine used to deride Linux. Until his PC stopped working and he reloaded Windows (XP at the time). The PC couldn't even recognize his network card. So he called me up so I could download the driver for his network card, which I did on my Ubuntu box.

He was also quite impressed with Linux's virtual desktops, though he had a hard time admitting it after failing to find a Windows equivalent. But, being a Windows fanboy, they will never concede that linux is better at anything, so he promptly showed that Windows can do that just as well, all you need it a dual-port video card and two monitors!

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270980)

GP is using bad anecdotal evidence, there are PLENTY of hardware mixes that will throw windows for a loop, or where the only drivers are awful (ie, HP MFC printers, SoundMAX cards, anything eMachines).

GP has some points, but Ubuntu 10.04 actually has incredible support for hardware, working with 90% of devices without any downloads whatsoever. You can plug 3G usb modems in and have them "just work" without any 3rd party bull (appears in network manager and everything).

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271172)

I believe the gp stated Windows 7 fit that criteria...

The GP did also state that it must "install PERFECTLY".

Oh wait... He didn't specify that it needs to run acceptably.

As you were.

Bullshit (1)

phorm (591458) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271484)

My older (but still dual-core) yet not officially supported motherboard, disagrees.
As does my SB-Live 5.1 Surround card (works with the 3rd-party KX Audio driver if you can find it online, but lots of pops and clicking in various situations due to weird surround emulation)

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271108)

my parents are in their mid 60's and I installed Windows 7 on a home brew i7 machine I built them (i visited them during my holidays and built the machine and they live +900km from me) and trust me, no way in a million years would they have got all their hardware working. Right after the installing windows 7 the mouse driver would make the machine stall, then don't get me started on the video and keyboard drivers going ape shit. Recently my mum (aged 64) purchased a printer and installed the "windows 7" drivers and guess what "it doesnt work". Prints one page then the print cache shits itself. Tracked the problem down to Microsoft playing funny buggers with printers and the hardware makers not keeping things (installer problem) up-to-date. Funnily enough mum booted up into Linux (installed just in case windows self destructs) and the same printer works fine, no drivers needed. Also when I installed Ubuntu 10.04 "everything worked" it even asked me if I wanted to install the propriety ATi drivers. So now my mum prints in Linux because Windows crashes if she prints more than 1 job and it wont be fixed until my next visit later this year.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0, Troll)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271252)

Show me FIRST the Windows where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue.

Your Dad buys the OEM Windows system bundle.

He can choose from 94 desktops and 187 laptops shopping Walmart.com alone.

It works out of the box or is returned to the vendor.

He may chance the free upgrade-in-place from 64 bit Vista to 64 bit Windows 7, as I did, and discover that the geek's horror stories are mostly pure fantasy.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

adamofgreyskull (640712) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271822)

Your Dad buys the OEM Windows system bundle.

Fail. The person you quoted perfectly addressed the hyperbolic complaint that a 67 year old could not install a Linux distribution on a random collection of hardware by pointing out that doing the same with any version of Windows would be equally hit-and-miss. (I contend that it would actually be more hit-and-miss. Slackware 13.* worked on my hardware out of the box. Windows 7 didn't, I had to download drivers for my network card from within Linux. I couldn't find drivers for my old Creative Soundblaster 1024 soundcard at all, so I ended up replacing it.)

The fact that one can buy Windows pre-installed on a machine is almost completely irrelevant because there are (or were [dell.com] , at least) a number of companies selling Linux pre-installed on tried and tested hardware. The fact that there aren't as many of them has as much to do with hardware compatibility as it has to do with currency fluctuations in central Europe in the post-war period. I submit that it has more to do with people's familiarity with Windows and their fear of change coupled with the legacy of Microsoft's monopolistic history, i.e. overwhelming dominance of the desktop OS market and the popular mis-conception that they and Apple are the only shows in town.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272098)

Show me FIRST the Windows where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue.

Your Dad buys the OEM Windows system bundle.

He can choose from 94 desktops and 187 laptops shopping Walmart.com alone.

It works out of the box or is returned to the vendor.

He may chance the free upgrade-in-place from 64 bit Vista to 64 bit Windows 7, as I did, and discover that the geek's horror stories are mostly pure fantasy.

Unless it happens to you.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

dugjohnson (920519) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271324)

Agreeing with parent...Installing on Linux and Windows is for people who want or need flexibility and are willing to put up with some effort to make that happen.
If said 67 year old clueless dad wants to use a computer, he's probably clueless enough to just buy a box with what he needs installed already on it. Or if he REALLY wants to be limited, he can buy an Apple iPad. Since he's clueless, he won't mix the flexibility.
And since he's clueless, he'd never figure out multi-touch anyway, so it's a non-issue for him.
If all we are trying to do is serve aforementioned clueless dad, then we can stop all research and development now. You've taken a lot of pressure off the computer industry. Thanks.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33271346)

Show me FIRST the Windows where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue.

"Because dad didn't want to wait until the weekend and installed Windows 7 HP without a SINGLE issue. It installed ALL the drivers automatically and even told him at first boot he didn't have an AV and pointed him to several free ones."

Please improve reading comprehension. And I have to say I agree with the GP: Windows 7 is remarkably good. It may not have all the bells and whistles that some Linux flavours do, and I miss some of them sorely, but the user experience is rock solid in a way that has never been true for Ubuntu (though some other distributions are as strong as Win7).

As for the sibling post suggesting running it on the internet for 30 minutes and then seeing how it works: are you still living in 2004?

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271456)

> As for the sibling post suggesting running it on the internet for 30 minutes and then seeing how it works: are you still living in 2004?

Nope. The Windows shortcut vulnerability is a 2010 problem.

Windows 7 is still the same old broken promises.

Some email phishing attempt will likely be the culprit enabled with a pervasive "execute first, ask questions later" mentality in Windows.

new improved.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33271620)

Windows 8 with 3d BSOD gesture out NOW on multitouch

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33270428)

Proof that Slashdot isn't as biased as we thought: anti-linux trolls get modded +4 insightful on a Linux story. Fascinating.
 
It’s unfortunate that every time someone wants to talk about Linux, they seem interested in only one metric: can Average Joe use it? I don’t know. Can your theoretical person use Linux? My theoretical person is wearing a Barney the Dinosaur costume, so he’s not in any capacity to use any computer until he takes that thing off. Maybe he could operate a one-button Mac mouse, but my bets are on “no.”
 
Meanwhile, we can swap Linux stories back and forth until the cows come home, but the truth of the matter is that Linux on the Desktop will never become popular because most of the world doesn't understand what an operating system is, and it's beyond their abilities to switch to a new one. You can pick your own reason for not using it; fine. But don't pretend like you have some magical solution to fix the thing you hate so dearly.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0, Troll)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271836)

Yep, I MUST be a horrible troll for daring to point out the LAST thing Ubuntu needs is more bling bling bullshit, instead of saying "Gee, isn't Linux perfect and problem free? Well Biff it sure is, and Ubuntu is the bestest ever!". Yeah, I'm sure things will improve greatly if everyone pretends REAL hard. Hey, you want the specs for dad's PC? Because I'll be happy to give them to you. I know them by heart since pretty much everything but the CPU and RAM amount is a twinkie to mine so I could test new software on mine before letting it loose on his. The specs are thus....ECS Business Class motherboard with 4Gb of RAM and an HD3200 onboard, a Phenom 9650 quad I believe (that and the amount of RAM are the only differences between his and mine, I went for the Phenom II 965 quad and 8Gb) Realtek sound and networking, and a 500Gb HDD.

So I'm sorry, you can spread your FUD all you want, or stick your head in the sand and pretend Windows is still like Win98, but that simply ain't reality anymore. My dad didn't need a SINGLE DRIVER, those that Windows 7 HP didn't have it got from windows Update at first boot, He had to answer a grand total of THREE questions, and those were simple "personalize your software" type of questions, and as I said at first boot it pointed out he didn't have an AV and brought up a page with several free and pay AVs. So if you aren't trying to troll I suggest you try Windows 7. It has to be the easiest Windows I've ever had to deal with, built in disc imaging, hell everything on that OS is designed for ease of use. Webcams, even a USB TV Tuner, Windows just pops up a "hey, would you like me to get a driver for you?" and takes care of things. It even popped up a "You have plugged in a headset mike. Would you like to learn about the built in voice recognition?" and walked dad through teaching Windows 7 to respond to his voice.

So show me where you can take a random collection of NEW hardware, not some circa 1999 dumpster junk, hand a disc to a completely clueless user, and have them set it up with NO help, then I'll believe you, but until then I want to see with my own eyes just like I did with dad and Windows 7. The ONLY thing I had to do when I got there on Saturday was set up his Firefox and ABP,l since he didn't know where to go to get it (for those with clueless users I suggest Ninite [ninite.com] with totally automated installers for most of the popular apps. Just tell them which boxes to check and run it) but everything else was done. NO yellow exclamations in device manager, NO viruses (dad followed the first run pop up and installed MSFT Security essentials) just a perfectly running PC.

As I said I hoped that Canonical would do for Linux what Jobs did for NeXT or what Ballmer has with windows 7, but it seems like it is the same old headaches, just with some new bling bling on top. It certainly isn't any easier for a new user to set up by themselves than Debian or any other Distro. I had real hopes, which is why I set up no less than 4 boxes, all with different hardware, to run Ubuntu from 6-9.04. I really believed the "Linux for humans" bull and as a retailer I hoped that Shuttleworth would open a "third way" and do for Linux what Jobs did for NeXT. Instead what we got was a whole lot of bling bling, an OS that even the OEMs can't update from the Canonical repos because of lousy QA, in short I think we all got...well not really anything.

Linux has been out there for 15 years now, and on the desktop it is still lower than the margin for error. You can lie to yourself and say it is a MSFT conspiracy, or that OEMs prefer paying Redmond, but any normal company would ask "What are we doing wrong? Why aren't we gaining numbers?" and do what they had to to address those issues. Instead you get labeled a troll for saying anything other than "Gee isn't Linux swell?" and nerds telling you with a straight face that users should be forced to "embrace the power of CLI" like it is the fucking force or something. Give me a damned break. No retailer will touch your product...PROBLEM. Guys like me that you NEED so you have a nationwide support network like MSFT and Apple does...PROBLEM. When we point out the problems we are having and what needs to be fixed, like GUI based problem solving and a rock solid hardware ABI so that updates don't bork drivers we are called trolls, shills, and treated like dirt if we don't suck down the Kool Aid...PROBLEM. Either get together and fix the serious issues or pretend they don't exist and continue to get ZERO hardware support, software support, and be ignored by pretty much everyone that isn't a programmer or CS nerd. Your choice.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (3, Interesting)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272018)

> My dad didn't need a SINGLE DRIVER, those that Windows 7 HP didn't have it got from windows Update at first boot,

Yay, anecdotal evidence! There are plenty of people for whom Ubuntu installs perfectly too. That is why you are being a troll.

I've always had problems installing Windows - I think I'm unlucky.

I recently bought a usb WIFI device from Japan to get on the internet. Windows did not have the drivers and the drivers that came with it only worked on the Japanese version of windows. I had to spend several days doing registry hacks to force it to install.

On Linux I plugged it in and it worked.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

kayoshiii (1099149) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272160)

you had a better experience with Windows 7 than me. I recently built a new computer for my mum. Both Lan and sound were not detected out of the box unlike every Linux Distro I have used in the last 5 years.
Don't get me wrong Ubuntu could do with a lot of improvement but Windows and even Mac are not perfect either.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

Saltheart_Foamfollow (932632) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270730)

Dude: Thank you for clearly stating my exact thoughts...

Re:Hardware support is still weak (2, Informative)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270770)

Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue, and then we'll talk.

True story.

Not long back I tried the Ubuntu Windows Installer [ubuntu.com]

The installer appeared to hang on an indecipherable hard drive error. It could not be closed or canceled short of killing the process in Task Manager.

The Ubuntu site and forums were no help - so on to Google.

A half hour or so later I found a solution. It seems that the installer treats any internal or external, occupied or unoccupied, flash card slot as a hard drive.

The work around is to click "Cancel" as often as necessary to get the job done.

65 clicks later I began to see daylight.

25 clicks later I had 32 bit Unbuntu dual-booting with 64 bit Windows 7.

It did not make a good first impression.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

Kitkoan (1719118) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270800)

I haven't had driver issues with my franken-desktop with Ubuntu since 9.04 (A HP m7640n, granted all thats left of that system is the motherboard, HD and DVD drive, changed all the RAM, graphic cards, PSU, added a wireless USB drive, and have an external sound card). Windows 7 took a few hours to find the wireless drivers (I dual boot both, Windows for my games since I tend to have issues with it, Ubuntu never seems to have issues for me). I'm wanting to ask you what your idea of "random hardware" is, and then question why a 67 year old clueless dad is using "random hardware" since everyone I know that is clueless about computers isn't going to build their own system which is pretty much the only time you'll have the hopes of using "random hardware". Anyone who is clueless about computers is going to use a pre-built system that uses pretty standard, easy to find parts since those are the cheapest and those are going to be the best supported. As for your other comments about Ubuntu and needing to play "hunt the fix", aside from DVD playback, I haven't had issues right out of the box and not have had to play "hunt the fix". Mind giving me an example or two of which ones you needed to do that for?

As for Dell, you don't suppose it was Microsoft leaning on them with OS prices as to why they disabled the Canonical repos? Remember, according to Dell a little while ago you should only be using Ubuntu if your interesting in open source programming. [slashdot.org]

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0, Troll)

abigor (540274) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271670)

It's obvious to anyone with a functioning brain and mainstream work requirements that desktop Linux is bogus. Its defenders are typically people who don't do much except browse echo-chamber sites like Slashdot. It's fair to compare them to Amiga defenders, gold bugs, 9/11 conspiracy people and pretty much every other crank category out there.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

fishexe (168879) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271778)

Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue, and then we'll talk.

Show me ANY windows where you can do the same, and then we'll talk.

Because dad didn't want to wait until the weekend and installed Windows 7 HP without a SINGLE issue.

Somehow, I suspect the hardware in that box wasn't selected at random. Either way, I recently re-installed Windows XP from the original media (packaged with the computer) after the system got irreparably hosed by a virus that no AV software would remove, and then attempted to reinstall the Wi-fi drivers from the original drivers disc, but the system couldn't find the fscking drivers. On the same media whose SOLE PURPOSE was to contain those drivers. After hours of wrangling with this during finals week, I told my wife (whose computer I was working with) that I would put Ubuntu on after my exams. While I was away she got bored and put it on herself, without a hitch. So I would say our anecdotal evidence cancels out, and YMMV is the true lesson here. And given both our experiences, I would say the problem with Ubuntu isn't lack of drivers, it's that it doesn't come pre-installed on nearly every new PC like Windows does.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33272178)

Having used Ubuntu/Debian for the past few years, installing windows can be quite challenging. Its amazing the amount of work that needs to be done just to get a fresh install of a windows usable. Having just installed ubuntu 10.04 I have a fully functional server/programming/bioinformatics machine in about 30 minutes. Doing a fresh install of windows XP seems to take a good two afternoons worth of effort tracking down all the software updates and restarts and only then do I have a really sweet office 2007 setup. Additionally, you would be surprised about the amount of random useless hardware that just works in ubuntu, where in windows you will need to hunt down drivers. Additionally, I would like to state that trying to run a linux box like a windows box is a little silly and frustrating. If you really want that obscure devise to work or you just want to use buggy adobe products (flash), go use windows or get a Mac; trying to make linux something it is not misses the point and is bound to disappoint.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

dave87656 (1179347) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272352)

You know, I probably shouldn't feed the coward, but what the fuck, I'm bored. Show me ANY Linux where I can take a mix of totally random hardware thrown together and hand my 67 year old clueless dad the disc and have him install it PERFECTLY, without a SINGLE fuckup or hardware issue, and then we'll talk.

Ok, I'll bite ...

Try taking a Windows CD and doing that with any random set of hardware. You will literally spend hours downloading drivers. What I can say is that my hardware PC, Network card, Video Card, Printer installed out of the box in 10 minutes with Ubuntu. I couldn't even access the network with Windows XP (I haven't tried it with Vista or Win 7 which are probably better). In any case, my Windows 7 notebook did not support my printer out of the box (had to download the driver).

Window itself has very poor device support. Since it is so widespread, however, most hardware vendors have drivers for it, which is not always the case with Linux.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269480)

Ummmm... Mac bandwagon? Where are the Mac multi-touch displays? My HP TouchSmart works under Linux, but not multi-touch (that only worked under Windows 7). If you mean touchpads, Synaptic is the name you're looking for, not Mac, and Ubuntu already supports multitouch on that. If you want a tablet for your PC look into Wacom stuff. If you want a monitor, there are plenty, just Google TouchScreen Monitor.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33271028)

Ummmm... Mac bandwagon? Where are the Mac multi-touch displays? My HP TouchSmart works under Linux, but not multi-touch (that only worked under Windows 7). If you mean touchpads, Synaptic is the name you're looking for, not Mac, and Ubuntu already supports multitouch on that. If you want a tablet for your PC look into Wacom stuff. If you want a monitor, there are plenty, just Google TouchScreen Monitor.

Your forgetting, this is Apple and Slashdot, we're just waiting for everyone to make them and then Apple to make them last and then declare that they did it first and just forget anyone did them before. Like tablets, smartphones, ect...

Were can I buy... (3, Informative)

Just_Say_Duhhh (1318603) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269498)

where I can buy a USB pad currently to add multi-touch support for a Windows desktop. Thanks

From Wacom [wacom.com] . I have one of these, and use it on a Windows system. I haven't plugged it into my Lucid system...yet.

Re:Were can I buy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33270412)

You have to compile and install the latest drivers and do some tweaking on the command line to get it working on lucid, and you have to find the how-to in the forums to get it working with gestures.

Re:Were can I buy... (2, Informative)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272036)

From Wacom. I have one of these, and use it on a Windows system. I haven't plugged it into my Lucid system...yet

We have a Bamboo One and a Bamboo Fun on two of our Ubuntu systems, and they work fine. In fact, they worked straight out of the box in Jaunty, without any need for extra drivers etc.

To take advantage of stylus pressure etc., the application must be aware of the stylus, and the pressure/tilt features must be enabled inside the application. Both Gimp and Inkscape support various features, including assigning different tools to each end of the two-ended stylus.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

Kepesk (1093871) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269544)

Don't worry; 5 minutes after this is released, someone out there will start porting it to the iPhone.

Porting it to the iPhone: the newest, hottest fad.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269632)

www.apple.com
www.wacom.com

Start there, both sell multitouch devices that work great in Windows. Dell and HP also sells some machines with multitouch built in.

Re:Hardware support is still weak (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269756)

Wacom makes fairly inexpensive touchpads. Actually, if I remember correctly, most of their Bamboo line can even be purchased without a stylus. Essentially you can cheap out and not get any of the actually useful, artistic features to quench your touchy-feelie desires. :P

Device I/O is great with more I for better O (1)

Kurofuneparry (1360993) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270016)

While I don't buy much of the multitouch hype out there, the number of devices supporting multitouch is increasing and Ubuntu/Debian/Linux/etc. can grow best in a growing market. From a business and user attraction perspective, market growth IS the map battle lines are drawn upon .

I was initially skeptical about the Lenovo S10-3t that we got for my wife and it's touch interface but I've learned to like it. Perhaps we're so down on multitouch because it's still underdeveloped in Winblows 7 etc. Like mentioned in other comments, nothing will replace the rapid input available from the good ol' keyboard, but a new form of input has proven useful in my experience. There were critics of the mouse, originally, for much the same reasons that others are arguing here. This new dynamic of input can be more direct than a mouse and more intuitive and available than a keyboard. This is good especially for novice computer users.

The size of the iCrap App world and alternative input methods (Wii and other accelerometer technology) demonstrates that this IS an exploding area. The argument that this wont catch on in the desktop world doesn't hold either: the netbook flavor of Ubuntu exists for a narrow purpose and I expect this feature will exist in a similar narrow, non-core niche. I don't think that this is too much of 'jumping on the bandwagon' and I'm excited by the idea of chained commands to make multitouch more meaningful. Then again, I'm an idiot.....

This is awsome news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269442)

Right up there with that decade old troll post about Rob Malda having his dick and nuts cut off for his homosexual lover.

Re:This is awsome news... (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269690)

The ol' "nullo" copy-pasta.
Haven't seen it in a while.

It's just a toy (5, Insightful)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269466)

Having tried multitouch, it's useless in the long term. It is a nice gimmick to show in an advertisement, but for using it for longer than 15 minutes at a time, it's not a good idea -- you'll hand will get sore in no time.

Even for mobile devices, there is simply no better thing than the good old keyboard. If you try the on-screen touch thingy on an iPad or most Androids, it may be enough for typing a single line of text. On an N900 with a proper physical keyboard, you're in good shape after several hours of typing. And since you can't have that many distinct gestures, traditional keyboard shortcuts are so much better.

Re:It's just a toy (1, Informative)

xianthax (963773) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269510)

clearly you've never used swype

Re:It's just a toy (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269566)

Swipe sucks for many tasks, I say that as a droid owner who tried it out. Totally useless for anything that is not chatting or emailing. Which is fine for most, but not so great when you are using ssh. Heck, the virtual keyboard period sucks for that kind of use just due to the screen area given up.

Re:It's just a toy (2, Funny)

fishexe (168879) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271692)

Totally useless for anything that is not chatting or emailing. Which is fine for most, but not so great when you are using ssh.

I consider ssh a type of chatting. When I use ssh, I'm just chatting with my honey...I mean computer...

Re:It's just a toy (1)

xianthax (963773) | more than 4 years ago | (#33272152)

while i realize this is slashdot, chatting and e-mail covers the data entry requirements for 99% of smart phone users. just turn off swype for data entry for your ssh app, at least on the nexus one it remembers your preferred keyboard per app.

Re:It's just a toy (4, Insightful)

JanneM (7445) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270094)

Swype is very overrated. Works fine for 90% of what you write (if you're using a well supported language), and makes the remaining 10% a pain to use. If you use more than one language, or want to use uncommon or non-standard vocabulary that 90% drops to something like 60% or worse.

Besides, swype doesn't need multitouch. I agree with the OP; it's a nice gimmick but not particularly useful.

Most of Ubuntu's "innovations" are like this. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269554)

Unfortunately, most of Ubuntu's "innovations" are like this. Compiz is another really good example. It got a huge amount of hype just prior to its inclusion, but then when it was actually available, we found that it was damn near useless. Most of us had to actually disable it to prevent it from sucking up 100% of our CPU.

The use of GNOME is another. While we have real desktops like KDE and even Xfce, Ubuntu still insists on forcing GNOME on its users. It's clear now that GNOME 3 will probably never be released, or if it is, it'll be so behind the curve that it'll be pointless to use it.

With Ubuntu's quality slipping each release for the past few years, I've gone back to Debian. At least they don't foist all of these inferior and toy technologies on its users.

Re:Most of Ubuntu's "innovations" are like this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269630)

None of those are "foisted" on you, jackass. You can install Kubuntu or Xubuntu if you want KDE or XFCE. You can disable 3D effects with great ease as well. You haven't even tried looking, have you?

Re:Most of Ubuntu's "innovations" are like this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269644)

I agree with you generally. The number of fixes and workarounds that ubuntu has spawned and then obsolesced is simply painful. But: compiz at least has gotten better. i've enabled it now and use it during presentations with a wireless mouse. rotate desktop cube and on-screen annotation are especially cool (and useful!) although sadly I haven't gotten to use "paint fire on the screen" yet. :)

It generally uses between 0-3% of one core of my outdated cpu (1.6GHz, L7500), and is fairly stable.

Re:Most of Ubuntu's "innovations" are like this. (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269858)

Uhm, Compiz useless? Have you tried it on a computer with a semi-decent graphics card but a lousy CPU? Even on a modern one, without Compiz you often have to wait until windows draw themselves whenever you switch desktops -- with Compiz, it's instanteous. The worst hardware I've seen it on a P4-era Celeron with an nVidia 5600 -- and the speed gains from Compiz there are just insane.

If it takes 100% CPU, this means you don't have 3D acceleration in working order -- or that you tried to turn on every single gimmick at the same time. The whole point of Compiz is to use the GPU not CPU. Once a window is drawn, it is stored in the texture memory, which means it can be displayed without the main CPU's help. This happens to be what makes switching desktops that fast.

Gnome vs KDE is another story... and with all of Gnome's downsides, I'd say KDE currently can't hold a candle to it; it's an emacs-vs-vi thing, though.

Re:Most of Ubuntu's "innovations" are like this. (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271506)

Stuff like compiz and it's variants on other operating systems remind me of the silliness that was being done with Englightenment in the late 90s. It was silly useless eye candy then and it's silly useless eye candy now despite the fact that it represents a proportionally less waste of system resources. OTOH, an open system allows for anyone to make the experience what they want it to be even if I personally think it shows a total lack of taste.

Re:It's just a toy (0, Flamebait)

acidrainx (806006) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269588)

Well at least you'll be getting some exercise to help combat the onslaught of Cheetos-related heart disease.

Re:It's just a toy (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269602)

shrug, I find learning to type on any device I don't use regularly very frustrating since I have to think about it until I get muscle memory going for it.

Having used an iPhone for several years now I find it not much worse than using the membrane keyboard on my HTC BlueAngel. The physical keyboard was 'better' but not enough that I care. It could also be that I just remember it as being better. The bumps certainly made it 'feel' better.

My point is however, while other small keyboards my technically be 'better', once you get used to the device the speed difference is going to be practically nil.

I don't like typing on a tiny keyboard in general, but my typing rate on my iPhone is probably 60-75% of my full sized keyboard rate when the phone can keep up (iOS has gotten laggy and overall shittier over time :( ).

I've spent a full day doing RDP using an iPhone because I was stuck in a car driving through the midwest and some servers needed my special touch. Yes, it sucked on the iPhone, but having doing it on the HTC Blue Angel, it sucked there too. Both of them suck after any length of time.

The iPhone multitouch is worse but not by enough to really matter in my opinion.

Re:It's just a toy (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269674)

Multitouch is great. I have a couple of netbooks with multitouch synaptics touchpads. Oh what, you thought multitouch was only for screens? It was around for touchpads first, and it works pretty well there.

Re:It's just a toy (1)

whatajoke (1625715) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269678)

On an N900 with a proper physical keyboard, you're in good shape after several hours of typing.

I have a n900. I can heartily affirm that its keyboard is just made for common lisp + emacs. C/C++ have many special characters for which you have to pop up a virtual keyboard. But common lisp has all needed characters in just the right place in n900's keyboard. Only the quasi quote charater is missing, which is a small tradeoff to make for programming while walking around the house. Offsets the sedentary lifestyle a little.

Re:It's just a toy (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269866)

redefine it.

Re:It's just a toy (4, Insightful)

shmlco (594907) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269680)

Your hand will get sore? You're kidding,right?

There was probably some guy like you shaking his head thirty years ago. "Mice? Sorry, I tried one and it's totally useless. You always have to take your hand off the keyboard to do anything at all."

"Not to mention how sore your hand will get mashing buttons and dragging it around your desktop."

Re:It's just a toy (2, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269792)

Yeah, lots of people still avoid it. Vimperator exists for firefox for a reason.

Mice suck, gestures suck more.

Re:It's just a toy (3, Insightful)

dlevitan (132062) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270052)

Multi-touch on my Macbook is great. Two finger scrolling, three finger flipping from page to page makes life significantly easier. Yes, I can do everything with a mouse, but usually don't have mine out if I just have my laptop. And of course I can always use the keyboard, but why when I can do the same thing 10 times faster with a few finger movements.

Re:It's just a toy (1)

coryking (104614) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270186)

Mutitouch isn't hype! It's potential has barely been scratched!

Think maps. Big maps. Used on boats for navigation. Pinch to zoom in and out—way more intuitive and way quicker than keyboard and mouse.

Think retouching photos—way easier to move around a picture with multitouch.

Think browsing the web—way quicker to click on links and scroll pages than the mouse or keyboard.

Think healthcare.

Think of the music industry—put one of those puppies on a soundboard or as the display on your bitchin' keyboard!

Jesus, people said mice were hype too! They were way, way wrong. In five years, everything will be multitouch.

By the way, if you need so many gestures and keyboard shortcuts to effectively use a piece of software, that says something about the design of the application, not multitouch..

Re:It's just a toy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33270518)

Thats an idiotic statement in so many ways.

Re:It's just a toy (1)

twright0 (1877370) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270786)

...longer than 15 minutes at a time, it's not a good idea -- you'll hand will get sore in no time.

Maybe they anticipate that their users will have lots of practice making repetitive hand motions for extended periods of time and will be able to avoid this problem. Can't imagine why, though.

Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269474)

So ... as a hint ... if you want to copy Apple ... good for you, no problem with that I'm all for it ... but maybe you might want to consider WHY they do so well.

You’ll need 4-finger touch or better to get the most out of it

... 4 fingers to get the most out of it, I'm not jerking off here, I'm using a touch screen ... what kind of gestures am I making with 4 fingers? Does it learn when I flip off the screen or something?

Rather than single, magic gestures, we’re making it possible for basic gestures to be chained, or composed, into more sophisticated “sentences”

... because the reason multitouch is working so well elsewhere is because it can be made really complicated and hard to troubleshoot and debug. I mean, what developers doesn't want to add another 'language' to their stable to understand.

And ... GPLv3 so I have to wait for something with license I can use safely in anything because I'm not going to be bothered to learn another SDK and framework that I can only use in apps that I give away. I know I can't give away the only other real alternative out there but I don't care because I can sell those apps and make a fortune.

If you want people to use things like this then maybe you want to look at why people like the existing ones and why so many apps exist for the existing frameworks ... People don't use the iPhone and love its multitouch because of its 'tech specs', developers nor users.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269586)

You can sell GPL3 works. Not sure what your point is.

The iPhone is not the be all and end all, no matter what your master jobs told you. Check out the android sales numbers for a good example.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (0)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269704)

No you can't. You can call it 'selling' but the reality of it is you can't really sell any software package under GPL since the first thing that happens is they can copy it and give it away, defeating any reason anyone has to buy it from you.

Find me one company that makes money 'selling GPL' software.
Before you quote them, IBM, Novell and RedHat all do not make money selling 'GPL' software. IBM and Novell make their money on the proprietary parts they sell you after Linux and RedHat makes its money off investments it made when everyone went nuts and bought into their ridiculous IPO.

I don't think the iPhone is the end all be all, there are plenty of problems with it that need solved, but rather than waste time making something like this that turns out to be just another shitty, half implemented too complicated for most devs to use, too complicated for most users to like, 'open source' copy.

It doesn't have to be a shitty copy, it just is. The fact that its a shitty copy doesn't have anything to do with the iPhone, other than being a bad knock off.

How you feel about the iPhone really doesn't matter, this is still a shitty knock off where they managed to get a bunch of the bad bits apple left out and ignored the things that make they other implementation good.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1)

camperdave (969942) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269770)

Before you quote them, IBM, Novell and RedHat all do not make money selling 'GPL' software.

Nonsense! Any sale of GPL software they make makes them money. Granted, it may not be enough to be considered their main line of business, but still, they make money at it.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269824)

Redhat makes half its money from RHEL.

You can even sell GPL software that uses closed art, for example.

I have bought GPLed software on my phone, perhaps the dev won't get rich, but so what. We don't need more rich folks, we need more people doing what they love making a decent income.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1)

basotl (808388) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269882)

Find me one company that makes money 'selling GPL' software.

http://www.codeweavers.com/ [codeweavers.com] They also contribute nicely back to Wine.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1)

TheEyes (1686556) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269948)

You can sell GPL3 works. Not sure what your point is.

The iPhone is not the be all and end all, no matter what your master jobs told you. Check out the android sales numbers for a good example.

Note that Android as well only uses the "magic gestures" form of multitouch. It isn't just Apple who has decided that simple, intuitive multitouch additions to a traditional touchscreen are the way to go; everyone has.

Now, that's not to say this is entirely a bad idea. This actually seems to echo the idea of mouse gestures, a notion that plays well to the niche crowd who is willing to memorize a series of not-necessarily-intuitive commands in order to powerfully interact with the system quickly and efficiently. In other words, the same people who like terminal windows and ssh will like this new multitouch "language;" everyone else will complain that the commands are hidden from normal user interaction unless they're also available via a GUI/menu somewhere.

Most people don't want to have to learn a new language just to talk with their phone/PC/TV/etc. They have other things to be doing--being parents and workers and social butterflies--they don't interact with computers for enough of their lives to make learning a whole new language worthwhile. This is the lesson that Apple learned long ago, Microsoft has learned more recently, and Ubuntu is finally bringing to the Linux space. The UI Guidelines [google.com] seem to indicate that they at least understand this:

"2.2 Gestural heuristics
To help meet the innate challenges of multi-touch development the following heuristics should be applied to gestural interactions:

Heuristic name
Description
Task frequency
The simplicity of the gesture should be directly related to the frequency of the action. The most commonly used functions should be mapped to the simplest gestures. The addition of more complex gestures must never degrade the usage of simple gestures.
Completeness
Simple gestures must be consistently supported in across the Unity platform. Completeness takes precedence over features; simple gestures must be fully supported before new more advanced gestures are launched. Once a gesture is learnt by a user it should be applicable in all relevant contexts.
Responsive feedback
Immediate visual feedback must be provided in response to all gestural actions. Low latency is of critical importance. If a application cannot provide instant low latency feedback it should make use of system visual indication functions.
Intuitive
The function performed by a gesture should match a users preconceived expectations of what the gesture should do.
Resonant
Similar outcomes should be achievable through similar gestures across the Unity platform. For example a translation or rotation gesture should generally have a translation or rotation consequence where ever it is used.
Easy to perform and remember
The basic gesture vocabulary should be minimal with complex actions performed through a sequence of simple, logical gestures.
Logical
Gestures should be metaphorically and iconically logical towards the functionality.
Full single touch support
All gesture functions must be accessible via single touch. Multi-touch gestures can provide a shortcut, but a user must be able to complete all gesture based user journeys using only a single finger.
Complementary gesture consideration
Where something can be manipulated through touch, the full set of complementary gestures should be considered and defined, if only to explicitly ignore such a gesture. For example if you can rotate a object right, consider and define explicitly which function is mapped to a left rotation.
Predictable
Gestures should not invoke outcomes that surprise the user."

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271542)

> Most people don't want to have to learn a new language just to talk with their phone/PC/TV/etc.
> They have other things to be doing--being parents and workers and social butterflies ...that's fine so long as they don't have to do anything remotely interesting or productive. The current Apple approach to interfaces seems limited to the cable TV viewer. Not all of us are that passive and don't want to be limited by what gets pushed to the couch potatoes.

Anything that presents a non-trivial set of choices will "burden" the couch potato crowd.

That's kind of how modern GUIs and applications got to their current "unsuitable" state. They graduated from the completely trivial.

Re:Good job Mark, you've overcomplicated it ... (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271478)

So ... as a hint ... if you want to copy Apple ... good for you, no problem with that I'm all for it

I do, I need Ubuntu to take the place of my Windows machines, up until 10.04 you were doing well. Apple cannot do this, so copying Apple will not fulfil the functions I and 97% of the market require of Ubuntu.

4 fingers to get the most out of it, I'm not jerking off here, I'm using a touch screen ... what kind of gestures am I making with 4 fingers?

2 player game. Possibly even a four player game. There are a bunch of four fingered gestures I can think of, scrunching, spreading fingers, moving two fingers up and keeping the others stationary and that's just with the one hand with both hands (yes, some people use both hands when operating their PC's) you have at least a dozen gestures I can think of off the top of my head. But then again I think the whole touch screen thing is a gimmick and the Keyboard and Mouse will continue to reign supreme.

because the reason multitouch is working so well elsewhere is because it can be made really complicated and hard to troubleshoot and debug.

I dont know how you got that out of

Rather than single, magic gestures, we're making it possible for basic gestures to be chained, or composed, into more sophisticated "sentences"

I got, we will allow multiple simple tasks to be chained together to perform multiple tasks in succession.

You are clearly of the "Apple" school of thinking where "Simple" means "Remove functionality". Most of the world doesn't work like this, making something "simple" means "a series of easy to follow steps in a logical order" or simply not requiring specialist knowledge. You can make very complex tasks quite simple by breaking them down into smaller tasks in a logical order. Soratherthenwritinganentiresentanceinonegiantword we use spaces to break it up and create an easy to read, making a complex task simple by breaking it up.

Gestures With Multitouch In Ubuntu 10.10 (0, Offtopic)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269506)

How about an ARM netbook with Ubuntu on it! Would't that be better than multi-touch? You could even sell it of your website and make some cash out of it! Who knows it may even sell so well shops may want to stock it? putting Linux into public eye.

Maverick? (1)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269658)

Can I get the companion release: Ubuntu Iceman?

I thought HP made a multitouch ALL-IN-ONE (2, Informative)

Alanonfire (1415379) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269732)

I believe it was right around $1000, looked ridiculously like an iMAC and ran Win 7. I remember touching it at the store and being like "wow, now if this was only useful...."

Re:I thought HP made a multitouch ALL-IN-ONE (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270100)

Load a fps on it. Touch heads for headshots. Get banned for using an aimbot.

Re:I thought HP made a multitouch ALL-IN-ONE (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271580)

> I believe it was right around $1000, looked ridiculously like an iMAC and ran Win 7.
> I remember touching it at the store and being like "wow, now if this was only useful...."

        Yes, every time I see the iThing I lament the fact that it isn't a proper Mac.

        Since Apple has chosen to ignore the power user, then it's up to Microsoft and the
Linux community to fill the gap for the simple basic circa 1985 features Jobs chose to
leave out of the current tablet fixation.

Rumor has it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269762)

There's a secret gesture that will earn you extra lives if you punch it in fast enough during boot up...

Minigames! (5, Funny)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 4 years ago | (#33269774)

They are introducing multi-touch in 10.10 because in 11.04 the close and minimize buttons
will run around the borders of your windows and you'll need two hands to catch them.

This is much better than the current 10.04 "Memory" min-game where you try to remember which side the buttons are on.

Re:Minigames! (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270144)

They are introducing multi-touch in 10.10 because in 11.04 the close and minimize buttons will run around the borders of your windows and you'll need two hands to catch them. This is much better than the current 10.04 "Memory" min-game where you try to remember which side the buttons are on.

I usually use the Zork like game to turn the recent memory game off. The magic words elude mee at the moment, but they have something to do with sed and gconf.

Re:Minigames! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33271228)

Or you could just use the GUI theme preferences program... but that's less fun.

Put more effort on the everyday stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33269786)

There are still a boat load of everyday things that should be addressed before they start to put too much effort in bleeding edge technologies that may never actually come to market.

Re:Put more effort on the everyday stuff (3, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33271614)

> There are still a boat load of everyday things that should be addressed
> before they start to put too much effort in bleeding edge technologies
> that may never actually come to market.

Got a personal favorite you would like to actually cite or would you prefer to just continue the lame trolling?

There are already Linux based appliance tablet devices. So it's not like this is just pie in the sky stuff. This is new hardware that needs to be supported like anything else including whatever happens to be your pet "obscure" peripheral.

Why Gestures? (1)

Rabbidous (1844966) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270300)

Gestures are great when used on the screen (as in an iDevice). They feel natural... like you are interacting with a physical picture or list. I am am a bit baffled about how using gestures with my computer will improve the interaction. **Shrugs shoulders**

Re:Why Gestures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33270598)

This is borderline get a mac nonsense...but bear with me. I have a macbook and gestures RULE. In my mind, they're the equivalent to hotkeys on a keyboard. If you can transition that into any or more likely most generic laptops with modern hardware - it'd be glorious. iDevices actually lack the complexity of a unicorn diamond encrusted apple touchpad. One finger one tap to left click. Two finger tap to right click. I could go on for days...and every once in a while you do something that feels natural and it works.

In the future, I think computing will be alot more gesture based. If a linux distro can get aboard early in the game - I'm all for it.

However, you're right in some aspects. If you have a desktop and a hardware mouse. Ubuntu is just farting rainbows. The real key here is laptops and open source tablets (I've heard talk of some but nothing stable...maybe they're not patient enough for the future. Is this a step toward an android equivalent of ubuntu? I doubt it but...it never hurts to put yourself in the game.

Sweet move, Mark! (3, Funny)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#33270578)

Hey, the RT2700 and open source Nvidia drivers are shagged sideways in 10.04 again but fuck fixing that legacy shit, right, because we can focus on adding bells and whistles for hardware that two, maybe three of the actual competent devs and testers currently own! Rock on, buddy!
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