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Square Market Now Accepts Bitcoin

Unknown Lamer posted about 4 months ago | from the with-a-side-of-increased-fraud dept.

Bitcoin 94

An anonymous reader writes "Square today announced it has added support for paying with Bitcoin. As a result, buyers can now use the digital currency to purchase goods and services on Square Market, which allows sellers to create an online storefront with online payment processing. The mobile payment company promises the experience won't feel any different for sellers and they 'don't have to change a thing, except potentially expecting new trailblazing customers and more sales.' In other words, Square wants them to be able to offer Bitcoin as a payment option without any headaches." Stripe is also adding beta support for Bitcoin as a funding source. No word from Paypal yet.

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They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0, Troll)

supremebob (574732) | about 4 months ago | (#46626529)

Seriously, now is time for businesses to get OUT of Bitcoin and not be trying to get more of it.

In case you haven't noticed, the value of Bitcoin has dropped by more than half over the past three months. Between the MtGox scandal, the Bitcoin bans in Russia and China, and the draconian new IRS regulations, I'm amazed that it's still trading in the $500 range. It sure as hell don't see it coming back to $1,000 soon, that's for sure.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (5, Interesting)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 4 months ago | (#46626585)

the draconian new IRS regulations

The new IRS regulations say that bitcoins will be treated just like any other property, such as, say, a bushel of corn. The alternative is to treat it officially as a financial instrument, which would involve more reporting and regulation. So the IRS has simply clarified the rules in a less draconian direction.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626719)

I bet you love it when Obama pisses in your face.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46628103)

I don't like black piss. I prefer getting pissed on by nubile white girls.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627859)

You got it backwards. The IRS is saying that if you spend bitcoins, then you have to treat the difference between its value when you bought/mined it and its value when you spent it as capital gain. You don't have to do this when you spend Euros, so the less draconian direction would be if bitcoin were treated as a foreign currency.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

tompaulco (629533) | about 4 months ago | (#46627997)

Actually, you do have to pay capital gains tax on foreign currency in many circumstances. However, for most consumer cases, it is not worth the effort to go after people. In the case of bitcoin, the value change is signficant enough that it is worth their while to pursue the taxation.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46629645)

I think the limit for currency was $200.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46630179)

capital gains will kick you in FOREX trading. if you are making money, the IRS is going to get it's cut one way or another.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46628247)

the draconian new IRS regulations

The new IRS regulations say that bitcoins will be treated just like any other property, such as, say, a bushel of corn. The alternative is to treat it officially as a financial instrument, which would involve more reporting and regulation. So the IRS has simply clarified the rules in a less draconian direction.

No the rules are definitely MORE draconian, by treating it officially as an asset you now have serious tax implications every time you perform a transaction in bitcoins, The government now has legal means to audit your bitcoin usage and put you in Jail if you haven't been paying your capital gains tax. this is the perfect setup for cracking down on those that choose to use it, treating it as a currency would put the regulation and reporting burden on the institutions and exchanges, treating it as an asset places ALL the liability and legal reporting responsibilities (and consequences) directly on the user.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626633)

Short sold bitcoin eh?

Cryptocurrency is the inevitable wave of the future. It may be Bitcoin or it may be something better but the current price of Bitcoin represents a sufficiently broad and dynamic market that you can be assured of spending $500 of Bitcoin for $500 of goods and it's foolish to declare it worthless.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (3, Funny)

AudioEfex (637163) | about 4 months ago | (#46626995)

If you mean "inevitable wave of the future", as in "3-D movies in the home is the inevitable wave of the future" or "nuclear power is the inevitable wave of the future"...well, all I can say is, good luck with that, LOL.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46627433)

Both of those were and are highly regulated and proprietary technologies. Bitcoin is not. Bitcoin is more like Linux, at which people laughed and laughed and laughed ... until Android made pretty much everything else obsolete or niche.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627985)

until Android made pretty much everything else obsolete or niche

LOLWUT?

First: Linux was already a major player in the Server OS market before Android was a gleam in Rubin's eye.

Second: Android is only in the position it's in because Google has been pumping it for free into the market to prevent the majority of the mobile market from being captured by Apple or Microsoft. Google's ONLY money-making venture of any scale is advertising, mobile is growing massively, and Google gets trivial amounts of money from mobile even with all the free bullshit they're pumping into mobile.

Third: Android manufacturers are, collectively, earning maybe 20-25% of ALL of the profits in the smartphone industry. Apple earns 70-80% with a much lower market share. Know why? Because Android powers low-end feature phones, and the "smartphones" it powers are mostly used as low end feature phones, which just happen to have large touch screens.

If Android is your benchmark for Bitcoin yeah, you're in for a rude awakening when those bit coins turn out to be worthless wastes of electricity.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about 4 months ago | (#46628913)

If you mean "inevitable wave of the future"

This is just another online store using Bitcoin for free advertising. All you need to do is set up a Bitcoin conversion system on your store's front end (they're not going to keep them for more than 2 seconds), announce you accept Bitcoin, and.... bingo! Your store is now being advertised on every tech site in the world as "Bitcoin News!!". That's millions of $$$ of advertising, for free!

Too Cheap to Meter (1)

handy_vandal (606174) | about 4 months ago | (#46630177)

3-D Movies at Home + Nuclear Power = Entertainment Too Cheap to Meter!

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (3, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 4 months ago | (#46626641)

It's not the first time Bitcoin would change its value that rapidly or that much. But its volatility doesn't really matter much when using it as a transaction medium - you get BTC, you immediately sell it for USD, and that's that. And why would a US-centric service care about what Russia or China do?

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (4, Insightful)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46627035)

You are conveniently forgetting the conversion to and from USD also involves transaction fees. Not only that, but you also have to trust the trading institution that is holding your dollar balance to not abscond with your dollars, otherwise you have to ALSO transfer your dollars into and out of the institution immediately.

So we are now talking about three transaction fees at a minimum, and five transactions if you don't trust the institution doing the dollar conversion. Plus someone has to eat whatever change in trading value occurs during the period where the transaction is being stored in BTC.

This immediately causes numerous problems, not the least of which being that the trade value of BTC is no longer deflationary if nobody doing real commerce is holding a balance in BTC. In addition to the fact that it won't be deflationary anyway because there can be any number of crypto-currencies in existence.

We are considering the question of volatility and whether it matters. The answer is: Yes, it does matter, and for some obvious reasons.

Consider the two holders of BTC. The speculators, and those trying to use it for commerce. You need stability for commerce-users to hold a BTC balance of any significance. Without stability the only people holding BTC are the speculators. When speculators are the only game in town, instability is guaranteed.

Now consider the so-called deflationary property of BTC (which is a phantom property in my view... wishful thinking at best). What happens to the two holders of BTC if you actually get deflation? What you get is hoarding by the commerce users (i.e. it stops being used for commerce) and more speculation by the speculators. Result == even worse volatility. Hoarding can easily destroy any currency as has been proven over and over again throughout history.

-Matt

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46627447)

I use bitcoins regularly for daily purchases such as groceries. The transaction fees are noxious, but the volatility makes up for it and then some.

As for hoarding, this is a basic restatement of the Paradox of Thrift. The economic models that use this are not sufficient to describe bitcoin. There are other models which DO suffice, of which you seem to be oddly ignorant.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46628003)

I use bitcoins regularly for daily purchases such as groceries. The transaction fees are noxious, but the volatility makes up for it and then some.

Surely you can name just a handful of the many places you use bit coins regularly for daily purchases such as groceries, then? Because looking at your Homepage I live not too far from you, and I've never seen a single fucking place in the real world that offers to accept Bitcoins.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46628323)

I would love to know as well. And also, I wonder if you are recording those purchases since you have to declare each one on your tax return as a capital gain or loss.

Your argument is a bit absurd considering bitcoin's volatility, let alone the grade-school economics. Big words might be taken more seriously if not for the clear insanity behind the comment.

You honestly think you are being capital-efficient by using stored BTC as the basis for your working funds? I can't imagine how you plan your finances for the year.

-Matt

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46628987)

No reporting is necessary for personal purchases (i.e. groceries). There's a lot of hysteria about the IRS regulations but it doesn't really affect anyone except traders and people moving large amounts. I've written a few bots, and have meticulous records for every trade (have to, to make sure the bot isn't losing money).

You are surprisingly judgmental for someone on a "news for nerds" website. I guess it's true that people become bitter as they age. Or maybe you're just jealous. Imagine how jealous you'll be when the next bubble blows through $2k and you could have quadrupled your $450 purchase. But no, you're just trolling instead of learning. Ouch. Who cares about capital gains when you put an additional zero on your account every year? Besides, the smart people are selling some bitcoin at a loss right now to swallow up capital gains.

Bitcoin is already up 10 percent from my purchase yesterday. I routinely save 10-15 percent (after exchange fees!) on my grocery shopping, even in a down market. I buy bitcoin when it dips, then buy groceries in between dips. Oh, I almost forgot about the 3% Gyft cashback for bitcoin purchases, better add that on there, too.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46629667)

>No reporting is necessary for personal purchases (i.e. groceries)
Um. Yes it is.

>I routinely save 10-15 percent (after exchange fees!) on my grocery shopping, even in a down market.
No you don't. because you don't buy groceries with BTC. Yes, you are a liar liar pants on fire.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46631991)

No you don't. because you don't buy groceries with BTC. Yes, you are a liar liar pants on fire.

Hey dumb motherfucker who can't use google, this is what LF11 meant when she* mentioned Gyft: http://www.gyft.com/bitcoin/
She's turning his bitcoins into gift cards which can be redeemed at normal everyday stores for groceries. So she's not incurring the transaction fees of using exchanges to turn BTC to USD - I would assume there's a shipping fee on the cards, but if you're ordering a stack of $250 cards then that's going to be negligible and possibly countered out by the 3% cashback she mentioned.

Yes, you are a dumb, dumb motherfucker.

*I'm baselessly picking a gender for LF11.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46629765)

...when the next bubble blows through $2k and you could have quadrupled your $450 purchase..

For all this talk of BTC being the One True Currency, proponents sure like to notate and keep their investment gains in USD rather than BTC.

transaction fees are going to be lower... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46637489)

With the release of the .9 bitcoin wallet software, the ability to set lower transaction fees have been added.

Personally? I see btc here to stay for some time. Oddly enough, I'm making money on alt-coins in a way that pays me in Bitcoins every 10 minutes.

Alt-Coins are currently at a lower value and bitcoins are also down... interestingly enough, my profits per day have actually increased from an average of .5% interest to nearly .7% a day during this time. How? The multi-coin scrypt cloud mining operation I'm invested in also mines scrypt -n and scrypt jane based alt-coins that are essentially asic proof. Awesome! I've put up more information at thecleangame[.]net/multicoin

Bitcoin is here to stay until BitCoin 2.0 arrives on the scene. No, altcoins are not BitCoin 2.0 :)

Keep it Clean! :D

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 4 months ago | (#46627507)

All the conversion fees etc are basically the price of doing the transaction. Since I'm not a merchant, I don't know how they compare to e.g. credit card processing fees (which a lot of people complain about). I suspect they are actually comparable, but even if BTC is more expensive, it's not hard to factor that into the price, or even expose the fees directly to the customer.

Long-term prospects of BTC don't really matter all that much for that purpose if it lets you get some clients now. Even if it goes out of the window in a month, so what?

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about 4 months ago | (#46628891)

You are conveniently forgetting the conversion to and from USD also involves transaction fees.

So does VISA, Paypal, and everything else...

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

Alioth (221270) | about 4 months ago | (#46628681)

The problem is Bitcoin is so volatile its price can change enough that selling for a nice price can turn into selling for a loss in the time it took for the transaction to be confirmed.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (3, Insightful)

ultranova (717540) | about 4 months ago | (#46626869)

Seriously, now is time for businesses to get OUT of Bitcoin and not be trying to get more of it.

In case you haven't noticed, the value of Bitcoin has dropped by more than half over the past three months.

So basically, if you're willing to risk it, now is the time to get in.

the Bitcoin bans in Russia and China

Acknowledge it as a threat by said superpowers. It could hardly get better advertising.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

Alioth (221270) | about 4 months ago | (#46628689)

No. Now is NOT the time to get in, we're currently in the bull trap after the peak on this chart:

http://www.portfolioprobe.com/... [portfolioprobe.com]

Bitcoin has gone through all the classic stages of a bubble so far. I would not be in the least bit surprised if it ends up falling back to around $5.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 4 months ago | (#46629525)

Now is NOT the time to get in, we're currently in the bull trap after the peak on this chart:

Maybe, hence the conditional. However, based on Bitcoin's history and prospects, I'd say we're in the despair phase.

Bitcoin has gone through all the classic stages of a bubble so far. I would not be in the least bit surprised if it ends up falling back to around $5.

I would. There's too much demand for sending cash over the Internet, which is what Bitcoin ultimately amounts to.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

Alioth (221270) | about 4 months ago | (#46647341)

There's plenty of demand for sending cash over the Internet, but Bitcoin as it stands isn't working for that because:

- it is too volatile, the value of what you sent can change too much by the time you've confirmed the transaction
- it's too difficult to turn into currency you can spend in a grocery store

I'd love to see a cryptocurrency work out because good riddance PayPal. But Bitcoin as it stands isn't this replacement, and for at least the next couple of years will only be working as a speculation instrument.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (2, Funny)

zieroh (307208) | about 4 months ago | (#46626919)

In case you haven't noticed, the value of Bitcoin has dropped by more than half over the past three months. Between the MtGox scandal, the Bitcoin bans in Russia and China, and the draconian new IRS regulations

So what? BTC is a medium of payment. The businesses accepting BTC as payment are largely converting it into their preferred currency, so the volatility isn't very important.

I'm amazed that it's still trading in the $500 range.

Your amazement should be taken as a clue that you don't actually understand the Bitcoin market.

It sure as hell don't see it coming back to $1,000 soon, that's for sure.

See above.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46627361)

"So what? BTC is a medium of payment. The businesses accepting BTC as payment are largely converting it into their preferred currency, so the volatility isn't very important."

Really. Why don't you name a few? From where I stand no real business is keeping balances in BTC. All their prices are in USD and their payment processor (such as coinbase) is paying them in USD.

You realize how dumb your statement is? You think any business is going to forgo double-digit profits or accept double-digit losses by quoting a stable price in BTC? Good luck with that concept!

-Matt

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627907)

Judging from the article, it sounds like Square Market is one of the businesses accepting BTC as payment and converting it into their preferred currency. Reading comprehension fail

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (4, Interesting)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46628343)

Read more carefully. There's a big difference between accepting Bitcoin and pricing something in Bitcoin. Square market is pricing everything in dollars (because, really, no merchant in their right mind would ever price anything in actual BTC unless they were intentionally trying to fleece you).

It's a near meaningless gesture which puts the entire burden and risk on the consumer holding the BTC, who is not only eating the overhead from the transaction and the exchange spread, but is also creating a coincident sale on the exchange at market and is likely causing the whole BTC market to drop.

If you want to know how much it's costing you, consider that bitcoin has lost over half of its value over the last 4 months. Now you can make up all the reasons you like for why it is dropping, but my bet is that people are draining their BTC on goods and creating a field day for short speculators on the exchanges.

-Matt

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

zieroh (307208) | about 4 months ago | (#46632179)

I think you should re-read my statement. I believe you'll find that you are in error WRT what you think I said.

Dumb indeed.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627387)

I'm amazed that it's still trading in the $500 range.

Your amazement should be taken as a clue that you don't actually understand the Bitcoin market.

Would that be the Greater Fool Theory? Or the notion that there's a sucker born every minute?

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

zieroh (307208) | about 4 months ago | (#46632213)

Would that be the Greater Fool Theory? Or the notion that there's a sucker born every minute?

Generally speaking, if you find yourself going negative on something that a bunch of other people are enthusiastic about, the chances are fairly good that you don't understand it. That's not to say that Bitcoin is a stable market (it's not) but that there are probably many more variables contributing to the price than you are aware of.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46627417)

You're funny. Now is the time to be getting into bitcoin. Nothing is broken except sentiment, and there is massive new infrastructure for actually paying for real things with bitcoin.

The MtGox scandal is a good thing. MtGox is the single worst source of bad bitcoin drama and it is good for them to collapse before bitcoin actually becomes a really big thing. The bans in Russia and China are setbacks, but nothing particularly unexpected. After all, bitcoin is antithetical to centralized currencies. As for the IRS regulations, how can you even think this is a bad thing? This is legitimate recognition, and is a necessary step for full corporate and Wall Street adoption. Now the bean counters know how to treat bitcoin.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627649)

Now is the time to get out of fiat currency, what with Cyprus, Greece, Argentina, Venezuela, and so many other countries destroying the value of fiat, time to run! Fiat has gone down so significantly in price you can barely buy a loaf of bread with what bought a car a few years ago. RUN!!!!

Except you're stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627881)

Except they aren't new regulations.

They're the same laws that have been on the books since before you're dumb ass was born.

You were only too stupid to realize that existing laws covering trading of things like commodities or securities also applied to bit coins.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627893)

Spoken like someone who likes to buy at the top and sell at the bottom. Bitcoin is massively undervalued ATM. It'll be $5,000/BTC by 3/31/14

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (2)

bearinboots (743355) | about 4 months ago | (#46628031)

Can Monopoly money be far behind?

Re:Monopoly money (1)

DanielRavenNest (107550) | about 3 months ago | (#46635831)

If you are referring to the game currency, it's not secure against counterfeiting or inflation (Hasbro can print more whenever they want).

If you are referring to fiat currencies, they are in fact government or central bank monopolies, but also not secure against counterfeiting or inflation.

Re:They're getting into Bitcoin NOW?!? (1)

kokojie (915449) | about 4 months ago | (#46630863)

I have heard the same tune in 2011 (I can't believe we are still trading at $5, we'll never get back to $32), then again in 2013 (I can't believe we are still trading at $100, we'll never get back to $266). To the non-believers: Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall.

Buy Now (1, Insightful)

sexconker (1179573) | about 4 months ago | (#46626533)

It's going mainstream. Buy now - this is the last push before it gets to $800 - $1000 per Bitcoin (again) and settles for quite some time.
If you're looking to speculate on BTC, this is the last chance to buy in and get near-guaranteed profits of 50-80% in the short term.

I currently hold zero Bitcoins, but I may pick some up again. (I mined all my previous BTC.)

Re:Buy Now (3, Insightful)

Laxori666 (748529) | about 4 months ago | (#46626535)

If you're going to get 50-80% profit in the short term why on earth would you not invest in this? Unless you don't believe your own advice?

Re:Buy Now (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626679)

Maybe he already has. If so, it's called pump and dump [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Buy Now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626749)

That applies to stock fraud and real world currency. Bitcoins aren't recognised as currency by any government in the world, so it's no more fraud than "swindling" someone out of Monopoly money.

Re:Buy Now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627371)

No wonder you always lose at Monopoly...

Re:Buy Now (0)

sexconker (1179573) | about 4 months ago | (#46626771)

Maybe he already has. If so, it's called pump and dump [wikipedia.org] .

I've only ever mined, traded, and sold BTC - I've never purchased any. I currently hold almost 0 BTC.
If I wanted to pump and dump I'd be telling people to buy Dogecoin. (I mined about 750,000 of those and I burned them all on one of those gambling sites for lulz - I'm afraid to see what they're "worth" now).

Re:Buy Now (1)

Truekaiser (724672) | about 4 months ago | (#46627303)

That was $498 dollars worth of dogecoin.

Re:Buy Now (1)

sexconker (1179573) | about 4 months ago | (#46626761)

If you're going to get 50-80% profit in the short term why on earth would you not invest in this? Unless you don't believe your own advice?

Because I'd have to liquidate assets to do so in any meaningful amount, find a reputable exchange, get my money over to it, buy Bitcoins, wait, sell, get my money back out to my other accounts/investments, and report it all on my taxes next year. I'm a very lazy man. That said, if I find a reputable exchange in the next few days I absolutely will be putting money in.

Re:Buy Now (1)

QilessQi (2044624) | about 4 months ago | (#46626951)

So, you're saying that Bitcoins are too much of a hassle to use and too much of a risk to buy and sell because of the exchanges -- even though you're convinced that you're going to get "near-guaranteed 50-80%" profit if you purchase a few bitcoins now.

You can see why some people here might be skeptical of it being the currency of the future.

Re:Buy Now (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46627461)

For you in your nice cushy Western economy with clean, smiling bank tellers and an account for every stage of your life, there isn't much point to bitcoin. You'll be the last of us to figure it out.

For the rest of world, it's a different story. Bitcoin's volatility is already less than that of a few "real" currencies.

Re:Buy Now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46628053)

Sorry, are you saying they don't have nice cushy smiling bank tellers in Rhode Island, too, Chris?

Kinda hard to sound smugly knowledgeable about how hard it is in the "rest of the world" when you link your homepage & linked in page to your userid, tough guy.

Re:Buy Now (1)

ColdSam (884768) | about 4 months ago | (#46651037)

"Bullshit", successfully called.

Re:Buy Now (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46627451)

Because it is a hassle to get bitcoin unless you either (a) link your bank account to Coinbase or (b) ... uhhh live outside the US?

Re:Buy Now (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 4 months ago | (#46628373)

Check ebay. There are quite a few people selling it there, probably hopeing to get a better exchange rate. I purchased 0.02BTC there when I was playing around with it.

Re:Buy Now (1)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46628993)

Good call. Steep premium, but that's appropriate since eBay is a terrible environment to sell in.

Re:Buy Now (1)

hodet (620484) | about 4 months ago | (#46626655)

I thought I was reading /r/bitcoin for a second there.

Re:Buy Now (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626803)

HAHAHAHA, who the fuck are you kidding. Bitcoin is going down the drain.

Re:Buy Now (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 4 months ago | (#46627009)

If you have money to play with, sure. But dont call it an investment. I have a small amount of my saving that I dont mind if it becomes worth 0 tomorrow (5% of my total saving in an year). I currently am buy bitcoins with it, but I wouldnt consider it an investment at all. Certainly not a good investment.

Re:Buy Now (1)

Alioth (221270) | about 4 months ago | (#46628703)

No, I don't think so (Bitcoin has already been in the mainstream media for months). Take a look at this chart, I'm pretty sure we're actually in the bull trap right now, and Bitcoin still has a long way to fall:

http://www.portfolioprobe.com/... [portfolioprobe.com]

Best of both worlds (4, Funny)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | about 4 months ago | (#46626553)

Sweet! Sounds like a great deal

I get the convenience of the transactions being helpfully reported to the government making my taxes easier

I get the joy of paying middlemen.

I get the reliability and stability of bitcoin.

Re:Best of both worlds (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627411)

That's why I've stuck with Beanie Babies in my retirement portfolio.

And thus starts the lamest day of the year (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626569)

I'm going offline for 24 hours to let the barrage of poor jokes wash over. This is April Fools, isn't it?

Re:And thus starts the lamest day of the year (1)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about 4 months ago | (#46626701)

I'm going offline for 24 hours to let the barrage of poor jokes wash over. This is April Fools, isn't it?

Not for another day here, but you have the right Idea.

Missing the point of bitcoin (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626667)

Wasn't bitcoin created to get rid of these financial middlemen?

Re:Missing the point of bitcoin (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626697)

The thing with Bitcoin is that you *can* avoid the middlemen, if they're not doing a good job, censoring you or taking too big a cut. Middlemen who provide a valuable service can still exist in the Bitcoin world.

Re:Missing the point of bitcoin (1)

Marginal Coward (3557951) | about 4 months ago | (#46627427)

A quick read of TFA indicates that the Square folks are providing a service in terms of accepting Bitcoin from buyers and providing dollars to sellers. The seller gets to set the price in dollars and then receives that number of dollars for the sale, less commission. Charging a commission for providing the service of a currency exchange (or a commodity exchange, if you prefer) sounds like a Square deal to me, depending on the commission.

Re:Missing the point of bitcoin (1)

kokojie (915449) | about 4 months ago | (#46630913)

No, service providers are always a good thing. Bitcoin's biggest feature is that the currency's printing is controlled by math, not by a central bank. The transmission is controlled by a trustless P2P network, not by a banking network. But there will always be services built around it, and it's a good thing.

That'll be, uh, can you just pay in USD? (1)

Powercntrl (458442) | about 4 months ago | (#46626683)

Between the new IRS rules and the supposed drama in China, Bitcoin has been on something of a downtrend the last few days. I've personally tried to accept Bitcoin as payment for some electronics I sold online, but by the time the buyer paid, I actually lost about $5. I would've actually come out ahead by accepting PayPal, fees and all.

I've come to the conclusion that cryptocoins are more-or-less a stock market fantasy game being played with real money. This isn't to say the concept of cryptocurrency can't work, but I don't think stability can be achieved if you're relying on a decentralized approach where people are only willing to run the a coin's P2P network when there's something in it for them.

Re:That'll be, uh, can you just pay in USD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46626821)

Lost 5 dollars? Just use a payment processor and you lose nothing?

Re:That'll be, uh, can you just pay in USD? (4, Funny)

mythosaz (572040) | about 4 months ago | (#46626997)

I've personally tried to accept Bitcoin as payment for some electronics I sold online, but by the time the buyer paid, I actually lost about $5.

My experience was the opposite. I just bought some electronics online, and by the time the seller got my funds, I actually saved about $5.

Re:That'll be, uh, can you just pay in USD? (1)

Marginal Coward (3557951) | about 4 months ago | (#46627501)

Given the current volatility, it seems like anything that's priced in terms of a fixed Bitcoin amount involves an element of speculation on the part of the seller. That went against you in this case, but it might have worked out in your favor on some other day - which is the nature of speculation.

In conventional currencies and commodities, derivatives are available to hedge risk in the instrument itself for those who want that. A quick Internet search indicates that derivate markets for Bitcoin currently are in the formative stage, but if Bitcoin really takes hold, they'll become part of its landscape.

Good-bye Folding@home, hello Bitcoins. (1)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about 4 months ago | (#46626693)

The payoff's immediate and self serving.

Re:Good-bye Folding@home, hello Bitcoins. (1)

Trogre (513942) | about 4 months ago | (#46627763)

Well, it would be if bitcoins could be mined any more with anything smaller than a supercomputer of ASICs.

Well... not really (2, Interesting)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46626805)

"At the other end, the seller receives the amount of the purchased goods or services in the amount of USD advertised to the sellersâ(TM) customer at the time of transaction, and can fulfill their customerâ(TM)s order. In other words, the seller takes no risk on Bitcoin value fluctuation"

In otherwords, all prices are still in US Dollars and neither Square Market nor the seller assume any of the risk. Plus the Bitcoin holder gets to have fun reporting every single last sale's exchange value to the IRS, and has no protection against any fraud that might occur. Which, honestly, doesn't really further the cause.

Bitcoin holders are now learning the hard way that bitcoins are not the magical deflationary stores of value they thought they were.

-Matt

Re:Well... not really (1)

moke (574418) | about 4 months ago | (#46626823)

indeed, the bitcoins I bought at $13 have fallen all the way down to $450. I don't know how much more pain I can take...

Re:Well... not really (-1, Troll)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46626859)

And you haven't bought or used bitcoin for anything else since, right?

Fortunately I'm old enough to know just how stupid remarks like yours are. In this unverifiable world of social network postings, anyone can claim anything. It might make for good entertainment, but only a fool actually believes people like you.

-Matt

Re:Well... not really (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 4 months ago | (#46627267)

I once delivered a pizza and the guy paid me with twenty thousand bitcoins. Too bad my dog ate the paper with all the numbers on it.

Re:Well... not really (1)

Marginal Coward (3557951) | about 4 months ago | (#46627539)

The dog will return it to you soon with additional encryption applied.

Re:Well... not really (1)

gmhowell (26755) | about 4 months ago | (#46628395)

The dog will return it to you soon with additional encryption applied.

I think that's a one way hash.

Re:Well... not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46700333)

Who said you can think? You can barely manage posts with more than 1 sentence!

Re:Well... not really (0)

LF11 (18760) | about 4 months ago | (#46627473)

Butt. Hurt. Ow. Ow. Ow. Jealous much?

Re:Well... not really (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46627517)

I had a similar experience in the '90s with a dot-com stock that was spun off from my employer's stock plan. It fell from $20 to $60 to $12 to $2. Unfortunately, I bought more at $12.

Re:Well... not really (3, Insightful)

m.dillon (147925) | about 4 months ago | (#46628469)

That is, unfortunately, a very typical story. Buying during a fall thinking you are getting a good deal because the price was once higher is probably responsible for as many losses as those who buy at market tops and ride their 'investments' down.

It's basically due to the investor either not being able to come up with a reasonable approximation of intrinsic value with which to judge whether valuation is a buying or selling opportunity, or simply running on base emotion thinking that because the commodity was once at a higher price that it must therefore return to that higher price if only one waits long enough.

In the case of BTC, people come up with all sorts of crazy valuations (like '$500,000 per BTC') based on grade-school thinking and onto bandwagons of other's opinions thinking that it must be right because so many people believe it is right. So right that they can't lose even when value is falling through the floor. A lot of these people wind up eventually putting their entire life savings at risk, even if they didn't intend to originally. You see that money and potential profit and lose all semblance of reason. But in the end all they accomplish is to hand their money over to the other, smarter people.

It's not even necessarily an issue of greed... it's a problem of being driven by sentiment or specious arguments... depending on other people's opinions to form the basis for your own instead of generating your own opinion from basic principles (and not fooling yourself or pulling your own punches). Easy fodder for momentum-driven trading.

Consider for the moment that there is a buyer for every sale on an exchange. Who's doing the buying when the market is clearly going down?

-Matt

Re:Well... not really (1)

Talderas (1212466) | about 4 months ago | (#46629693)

The other way I like to look at it is the value of $s to investors. This is why I'm leary of most kickstarter type projects. At a certain point you can be assured that some number of investors have invested because so many other people or dollars have been invested. They never did their own individual risk assessment nor could they have properly afforded to. The question is always how much of those investment dollars were done so out of bad motivations.

Re:Well... not really (1)

david_thornley (598059) | about 3 months ago | (#46641167)

That would apply if you were treating Kickstarter as an investment. The ones I've participated in have been more like pre-orders. You have to trust that the people aren't likely to take your money and run, and not mind too much if a few do, but you don't normally calculate ROI.

Re:Well... not really (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46628259)

until you have actually sold them you are actually running at -$13 and are running with the same stupidity a lot of people were doing during the dot com boom and the property bubble. until you have exited from said asset you have made nothing. Many people during both of the previous mentioned bubbles spent up big or leveraged large amounts on their "on paper" assets only to find 6 months later they actually had less value than what they initially invested leaving a great many of them completely bankrupt or in horrible debt.

But they don't want you to sell guns (1)

RogueWarrior65 (678876) | about 4 months ago | (#46630299)

Sell all the drugs you want but don't you dare sell guns with our payment service.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ab... [forbes.com]

Psychology (2)

SinisterEVIL (2661381) | about 4 months ago | (#46631331)

It's psychologically easier to hate bitcoin as a technologically inclined person than to admit to oneself that they missed a big opportunity to get rich quick. Perhaps if one could let go of this notion and look deeper into how the protocol functions, one might change ones mind.
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