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HP Makes More Money, Cuts 16,000 Jobs

timothy posted about 2 months ago | from the leaner-yet dept.

HP 288

jfruh (300774) writes "Good news for HP: Profits are up by 18% over the previous year! Bad news for HP: A lot of those profits are from post-Windows XP PC upgrades, and company revenue actually dipped 1%. The solution, according to CEO Meg Whitman, is "continuous improvement in our cost structure," which means firing thousands of people. At the end of the next round of layoffs, the company will have shed 50,000 employees since 2012." New submitter Deveauxes (3664417) links to a similar story from CNN's news service, according to which "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts. 'No company likes to decrease the work force, and we recognize that this is difficult for employees,' CEO Meg Whitman said in a conference call with analysts. 'I think everyone understands the turnaround we're in.'"

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288 comments

Bringing in the Indians!! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080249)

How many H1Bs will replace them?

Re:Bringing in the Indians!! (5, Informative)

supremebob (574732) | about 2 months ago | (#47080311)

I thought that they still relocating entire offices to third world countries, and staffing them with people making $3 an hour to do your tech support calls. You can't get H1B's for that cheap!

What... you still want tech support that can actually understand English and isn't just navigating through a troubleshooting flow chart to "fix" your problem? You better pony up for the Gold level Enterprise support package for $$$$$$ a month.

Re:Bringing in the Indians!! (5, Informative)

sumdumass (711423) | about 2 months ago | (#47080703)

As for the English speaking, all you have to do is explain to them that you have a hearing problem and need to speak with someone who is accent free in English. They will bend over backwards to get you to a native English speaker (quasi Americans with disabilities act and all).

Now the downside to this is more time on hold. The upside- beside understanding what they are saying- is that the native English speaker will likely by a higher level tech who can go outside the chart without delving into "please insert the restore CD into the computer" or at least be able to warn about backups first. but there is no guarantee. Well, I guess now there is no restore CD, press key combination and select restore?

Can I have a pinch of salt with that (5, Insightful)

mrops (927562) | about 2 months ago | (#47080879)

Being an Indian, I understand the frustration when support goes out to some dude in India who barely speaks English. I have been there myself, not only that, I have been asked how I made it to Canada.

Nonetheless, those that do make the H1B cut are not the same that answer those phone calls. H1B may be fresh grads, however most have engineering degrees, at the start of which they had to compete against 500,000 applicants for a under 10000 seats. Further, seats in Computer engineering which are valued more so than others are probably around 1000.

Furthermore, there is a contrast in fee, in US, a student might have to bail out if he cannot afford the education, so not only do you have to be smart, you have to be rich, contrasting that to peanuts, the competition gets very very tough back in India.

So joke all you want, those that do make it to US are rather smart and hard working.

I'm not saying they are not exploited, they are. The solution is simple, the employer has to prove, H1B is needed as local talent cannot be found, if thats the case, do not tie H1B to an employer, let the employee roam free. You will see a drastic cut in H1B and abuse of new immigrants.

Re:Can I have a pinch of salt with that (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080983)

The problem isn't Hindi-speakers, it is the US H-1B system that may not have a lot of people totally, but in the relatively narrow market of development and IT, it severely destroys wages.

The threat of a H-1B is like one not seen in any other industry. If you are a lawyer, accountant, or in any other profession, your boss can't threaten (and follow through) with being fired and replaced with someone who works for $16,000 a year, has a full CCIE or MCSE. In /. post a few days ago, I had a similar experience to someone who posted about being fired after he cleaned up a bad admin and was replaced by a H-1B because his boss said, "H-1Bs don't do sabotage".

It is the abuse of H-1Bs, and the fact that they seem to be treated by management as the emissaries of $DEITY, the solution for all problems.

As for proving H-1Bs are needed, that is trivially easy to abuse. I've seen places have a "secret requirement" for jobs, where -nobody- fits the requirement, so they get their minimum wage worker. I personally have had to train a H-1B replacement whose only qualification over me was the fact that he was a bargain basement worker, and that if he didn't toe the line 24/7/365, he would be sent back to Mumbai almost immediately.

Another excuse for H-1Bs I've personally seen were job reqs that had three pages of listings. Again, nobody had 12 years of Windows Server 2012, 25 years of OS X, and so on. Again, nobody locally meets those reqs, so the company hits Tata or Infosys and lo and behold, they get a H-1B for that developer position who is willing to work obscene hours for peanuts.

Don't take it personally. It isn't the H-1B who is trying to make life better for themselves. It is the fscked US system and the managers who abuse the process, begging politicians to open the floodgates and entirely destroy work segments, similar to how meat packing and textiles were destroyed as blue collar work.

It is so common, it is obscene. I have seen perfectly competant developer groups tossed and all coding offshored. The result was broken stuff that ended up requiring more money and man-hours to get working than it would have cost in paying some people decent salaries.

Re:Can I have a pinch of salt with that (5, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47081033)

So joke all you want, those that do make it to US are rather smart and hard working.

sorry, not my experience at all (20+ years in the bay area and I have tons of experience with indians). they THINK they are good, but the code quality, design quality and attention to detail is far below par.

I hate saying that. I really do, but it tends to be true. indians study by memorizing and they tend to be great at that; but when it comes to thinking things thru, they fall down. the education system encourages rote memorization.

Re:Can I have a pinch of salt with that (-1, Flamebait)

drkstr1 (2072368) | about 2 months ago | (#47081051)

Don't let them get to you. The only people I see complaining about H1Bs "taking all the jobs," are a bunch of out of touch old fogies who refuse to keep their skills up to date and relevant. (Note: there are still a lot of good peeps in that age group, and this comment was not directed at them). You are better than them, so just forget all that noise and come join us, in a new age, a new reality of instantaneous sharing of knowledge and ideas from across the globe, my brother in code. Come rejoice with us, and share your gift, whatever that gift may be. Share it far and share it wide and share it for the betterment of all mankind.

Re:Can I have a pinch of salt with that (5, Insightful)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | about 2 months ago | (#47081133)

The annual number of H1B visas issued 85,000.

However, the number of H1B visas working in the USA is closer to 750,000 today.

(it was about 650,000 in 2009.
http://cis.org/estimating-h1b-... [cis.org] )

There are roughly five million STEM jobs including immigrant labor and native born labor.

So about 1/8 of all these jobs are taken by H1B visas.

Meanwhile, there are almost double the number of native born with STEM degrees.

There is not a shortage of workers. There is a shortage of workers willing to work for low wages.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G... [breitbart.com]

Re:Can I have a pinch of salt with that (4, Interesting)

NormalVisual (565491) | about 2 months ago | (#47081187)

I've had experiences with both good H1-Bs and awful ones. I currently work with two - one is Chinese and one is Indian. Neither is expected to put in more than 40 hours/week unless it's really needed, in which case we're *all* there. The Chinese guy is sharp as a tack, and is extremely good at both design and implementation. He's also one of my best friends. The Indian girl is fricking *amazing* when it comes to debugging - give her a dump file supplied by a customer and odds are she'll have found the problem within the hour, whether it's an application-level issue or something that we've hooked at the systems level. She's also one of the sweetest people I've ever met. Both are paid on par with what everyone else is, and our kick-ass HR manager abides by both the letter and spirit of the law - both of the H1-Bs were sought out only after we spent months looking to fill the positions with domestic workers (I interviewed quite a few of them after the company flew them in to talk to us). I've also worked with imported workers that couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag, even when effectively given step-by-step instructions, and others that were competent but effectively indentured servants working for far less than they were legally supposed to be. The system needs a lot of reform, both to protect domestic employees as well as those brought in from overseas.

Re:Bringing in the Indians!! (1)

blagooly (897225) | about 2 months ago | (#47080961)

Everyone who knew a damn thing knew she was a lightweight from day one. That is the irritant to me. A PC choice that condemned a once formidable company to death. "Continuous improvement in our cost structure". Nobody is surprised by this. Compaq How is it possible that people at his level are so abysmally stupid? How can we change the culture to prevent this?

20,000 H1Bs for the country vs 320 million citizen (-1, Flamebait)

raymorris (2726007) | about 2 months ago | (#47080329)

There are a total of 20,000 H1Bs for the entire country, compared to 320 million citizens, so ...

Re:20,000 H1Bs for the country vs 320 million citi (3, Informative)

timeOday (582209) | about 2 months ago | (#47080435)

Where do you get that? Wikipedia says 262,569 Initial+Renewals+Extensions in 2012 [wikipedia.org] , which would make 20K off by a factor of 13.

Re:20,000 H1Bs for the country vs 320 million citi (1)

artor3 (1344997) | about 2 months ago | (#47080981)

And don't forget it's a three year period, so the actual number of H1-B visa holders in the company could be as many as triple that. It will actually be somewhat less, because not everyone stays for the full three years, but there are certainly at least half a million people in the country on the H1-B visa. And that's not counting the other work visa types, such as the L-1. When you consider that the total number of engineering, programming, and technician jobs is around 4 million, it becomes clear just how big an impact visas have.

Re:20,000 H1Bs for the country vs 320 million citi (3, Informative)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | about 2 months ago | (#47080473)

Sure, but that includes the elderly and children and people who dont' work, and people who work in areas not eligible for H1Bs. There are, and this is a hotly debated number, perhaps 2.4M STEM related jobs (of which HP itself only employs a cross-section of) and of that under 10% are open. There are over 11 million STEM degreed americans out there who have given up on STEM, probably due to dropping salaries and incessant layoffs.

Anyway hopefully as HP lays off STEM job holders, the H1B count can be lowered by that number (some large fraction of 16K jobs). Of course that won't happen because salaries might go up.

Re:20,000 H1Bs for the country vs 320 million citi (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080475)

so, the comparison should be against how many IT Professional not the "entire country".

Re:Bringing in the Indians!! (1)

buddyglass (925859) | about 2 months ago | (#47080745)

Hopefully a lot. We need some more smart people.

non news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080269)

I really don't understand people who insist that a company should be forced to take a loss before they cut their workforce. It's the cost of being more efficient. Don't like it? get off Slashdot and write a letter to your local newspaper editor. Inefficiency creates jobs and your posting to Slashdot is putting your local newspaper owner, postman and lumberjack out of work. Stop being a hypocrite about it.
 
Oh, any while you're at it be sure to deliver it down to the drop box in your horse and buggy. Your local whip manufacturer will love you for it.

Re:non news (2)

Dahamma (304068) | about 2 months ago | (#47080387)

No, one less letter to a newspaper is not going to change their publishing ability.

There are plenty of stupid letters they can still post, since there are no shortage of inane comments people have about topics they don't understand. As you have proven just now...

Re:non news (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 2 months ago | (#47080665)

Actually this really is non-news. For as long as I can remember, . . at least back to the early 90s . . . HP has regularly announced big layoffs. Every few years they announce that they are getting rid of 10,000-15,000 people, and yet, the total number of people working for HP doesn't go down. The truth is, while all these alleged layoffs are going on, HP continues to hire people.

It used to be that layoffs were bad. it meant that your business wasn't doing well. But now, everyone does The Dance of the Big Business. Stock price is down? Announce big layoffs. Wall Street loves that and your stock will go up. And then you just quietly hire more.

Re:non news (1)

plopez (54068) | about 2 months ago | (#47080905)

read somewhere that to change an organization internally takes 20 years. Everyone must retire, quit or die. so the fastests way tochange things is to lay people off, sell non-performing divisions etc.

Re:non news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47081013)

I wonder if they have cycles... announce layoffs and axe people who are 3-10 years in, then three to six months later, start hiring again via contract firms to start putting confidential ads out.

The layoffs are a great way to get stock prices up, and offshoring looks orgasmic on paper, but there is blowback. One reason Apple has succeeded well in the consumer market is that they spend money having their CS department be top notch, with high morale. Yes, you can get similar CS from HP or Dell, but you -have- to buy a business-grade machine, and you probably have to buy a support upgrade.

Re:non news (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080973)

And yet the CEO or any other C-level isn't taking a paycut to help out.

Re:non news (1)

aristotle-dude (626586) | about 2 months ago | (#47081155)

I really don't understand people who insist that a company should be forced to take a loss before they cut their workforce. It's the cost of being more efficient. Don't like it? get off Slashdot and write a letter to your local newspaper editor. Inefficiency creates jobs and your posting to Slashdot is putting your local newspaper owner, postman and lumberjack out of work. Stop being a hypocrite about it. Oh, any while you're at it be sure to deliver it down to the drop box in your horse and buggy. Your local whip manufacturer will love you for it.

I don't think you understand how healthy capitalism is supposed to work. Employees of HP are not only providing goods are services but area also potential customers of HP products and services. When you cut and cut and cut, you end up with nobody being able to afford the products your company offers. The lost jobs also have a ripple effect in the local economy. Why don't you stop being a hypocrite. You want to keep your job right? Why should you get to keep yours?

At some point, cutting jobs have a negative effect on your bottom line over the long run.

But there is good news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080295)

I'm sure there will be a 'Center of Excellence' in India or China that they are creating so the net loss is only 3 thousand or so.

Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (1, Troll)

rahvin112 (446269) | about 2 months ago | (#47080297)

By the time Meg and Carly are both done there isn't going to be an HP anymore. Meg wouldn't be a republican if she didn't destroy HP.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (2)

thieh (3654731) | about 2 months ago | (#47080339)

Well, HP will last until Meg and Carly sell their stakes, we are almost certain of that. Hard to say afterwards though.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080341)

It also wouldn't be more republican if the oil industry wasn't in a boom and hiring people. I mean, WTF was your point in injecting that little comment anyhow? She's a bitch regardless. Pure and simple.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080393)

The oil industry boon has been accomplished by fracking, fucking up the environment, covering up railway and pipeline leaks, and disturbing oil production in the Middle East by endless war. People lives have been ruined to make our oil profitable.

So OP was right, it couldn't be any more Republican: Do anything to make profit, no matter what the cost.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (3, Informative)

Dahamma (304068) | about 2 months ago | (#47080367)

She might save HP, actually.

But she could devastate the local economy and thousands of families to increase the already profitable company's margin even more for the rich shareholders.

But hey, there is a silver lining - at least she only fucking over 16,000 HP employees and not 1M+ California employees as governor...

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (3, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 months ago | (#47080483)

But she could devastate the local economy and thousands of families to increase the already profitable company's margin even more for the rich shareholders.

Apparently, that is how capitalism is supposed to work.

Shareholders get wealthy at the expense of the rest of the economy.

They teach this stuff in school these days. So it must be true.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (5, Informative)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 2 months ago | (#47080521)

Almost right. Actually, it's upper management who gets wealthy in the name of "shareholder wealth". But yeah, too bad about the rest of the economy.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 2 months ago | (#47080651)

Same difference, since most of upper management's income is based on stock grants. When they say "so and so CEO made $25M last year" that's not a $25M salary, it's a $1M salary and $24M in stock.

Upper management ARE major shareholders - and that's not by accident, of course. Capitalism may not be fair, but it's not stupid.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (-1, Troll)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 2 months ago | (#47080657)

No company has the responsibility to care about the economy at large. That is a function of government of the government.

Case in point, do you still buy Zip Drives or go buy Garth Brooks cds or pay for paper maps?

If not, you are as much of an asshat for undermining the economy --- or worse. You are hypocritical asshat, not willing to waste your own money while simultaneously saying it is OTHERS responsibility to do so.

But your responsibility as a consumer is your own interests, right? And likewise, so is a company's interests --- unless you think it is your right to deny that right to others while not doing it yourself.

Short version: you are a hypocrite.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080831)

Short version: you are a hypocrite.

Even shorter version: your entire post is a tour-de-force in dumbfuckery. WTF does Garth Brooks CD's have to do with putting 16 thousand people out of a job? jack and shit, and Jack left town.

Re:Meg and Carly sitting in a tree (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 2 months ago | (#47080891)

The only thing that really makes sense in this post is the first 5 letters of your username. Wish I would have stopped there. The rest is borderline schizophrenic ranting, you may want to get help...

Steve Jobs Was Ruthless, so cry ... (0)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 2 months ago | (#47080627)

>"Apparently, that is how capitalism is supposed to work."

You are quite correct. Even if it is sarcasm.

A company is the product of free market evolution, and a company *MUST* produce the maximum output with a minimum input.

The opposite of this is a governmental organization or a charity --- HP is not a governmental organization, nor a charity.

You are right even if it is for the wrong reasons.

Any honest company will tell you they do not exist to create jobs, just look at any of the Silicon Valley companies --- most of them exist to destroy jobs. P.S. Linux and open source don't exist to create jobs either, the goal of open source --- which is a noble one and the correct one --- is to expand freedom and reduce costs --- which *EXACTLY* what they should be doing.

I am not personally for increased costs for a commodity product --- an operating system or a work processor or a phone --- I want maximum utility at minimum cost.

Or shall you berate Wikipedia for putting major financial strain on the Encycopedia and book reference industry?

Re:Steve Jobs Was Ruthless, so cry ... (3, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47081055)

in the last few decades, there has been mass mind-reprogramming that seems to convince people that 'profit above all else, to the exclusion of all else' is what american companies are supposed to be about.

but go back to our grandfather's days and you would find social responsibility (which was hard fought for, during the union days). companies DID care and they DID shoulder the burden during hard times, because they saw value in the INVESTMENT in their work force! it was common for people to work at the same company for 20, 30 even 40 years!

find anyone like that today. I dare you. if you find someone working 20 yrs at the same place, its extremely rare.

this is now how it used to be. and don't accept that this was always how it was and how its meant to be. that's brainwashing by the new capitalists who are no better than white collar criminals, these days.

Re:Steve Jobs Was Ruthless, so cry ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47081215)

A company is the product of free market evolution

And, quite frankly, everything you say after this is pure drivel.

There is, and never has been a 'free' market. And, if you believe there is, or that it is 'noble', you're a moron.

The corporations game the system, can go outside of the market that we're constrained to, and pay off lawmakers to give them sweetheart deals which cost the rest of society in the long run.

Society pays for corporate profits, and every time they get more tax breaks and incentives, it has the effect of transferring money from people to corporations, where it aggregates in the hands of a small number of people.

Blah blah blah ... look, I'm a noble douchebag who works for a corporation, I'm going to get some 9 year old to sew my shoes for pennies/day, but I'm going to sell it to these suckers for hundreds of dollars.

Globalization is a race to the bottom, and when your economy is in the shitter, and nobody can afford anything, you might come to understand that your own standard of life can go away very quickly, because the companies view it as an opportunity to make you compete with people in Mumbai for wages.

Capitalism in its pure form is inherently broken. Always has been, always will be.

Give Meg a bonus! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080313)

Portions of HP's business are dying or changing radically. Wishing otherwise while retaining unneeded employees will not help. Better to do it now and position for the changing market than carry a sea anchor.

It's sad what has happened to HP (5, Insightful)

jhylkema (545853) | about 2 months ago | (#47080343)

They used to make really cool, quality stuff (Agilent Technologies anyone?) Now they're reduced to selling disposable printers and ink that costs more than vintage Dom. Gee thanks, Carly.

Printer Ink (5, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 2 months ago | (#47080541)

All of my calculators used to be HP, all of my bench equipment was HP or Tektronix. But these days, I no longer own an ink-jet printer, so I don't buy printer ink, so HP has nothing for me.

There are many brands that no longer represent their heritage: Philips, Zenith, Bell Labs, Kodak...

It's sad, but it's life, HP hasen't been a "high tech" company foe several years, they have been a "re-brander" of Chinese consumer products.

Re:Printer Ink (2)

NF6X (725054) | about 2 months ago | (#47080653)

All of my calculators used to be HP

Mine still are. I use an HP48gx, and run HP48gx emulators on my Mac and my iThings when my real 48gx isn't within easy reach.

Re:Printer Ink (1)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 2 months ago | (#47080695)

My 16C is still running, 35 years later. Admittedly, I don't use it near as often as I used to.

Re:Printer Ink (2)

sgt scrub (869860) | about 2 months ago | (#47080673)

Ironically all of those companies moved plants over seas. Now the owners of the plants have displaced them with copies of the products that made the original companies big. Who needs high priced suits in New York or San Josey? That is why there is so much crying about patent infringement. Once the patents are up, the people you used to bypass giving someone a living wage take over and kick you out.

Re:Printer Ink (1)

stox (131684) | about 2 months ago | (#47080857)

My HP-97 is still running like a champ.

Re:Printer Ink (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47080967)

in fact, even HP can't do a world class calculator anymore. for that, take a bullshit business grade HP calc and reload opensource firmware on it!

http://commerce.hpcalc.org/34s... [hpcalc.org]

I bought a vinyl overlay, a new hp30b and was able to install new firmware, making it the calc that hp can't seem to do on their own, anymore.

when USERS can create calculator firmware that blows away what the vendor, HP, can do, HP has clearly jumped the shark.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (3)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 2 months ago | (#47080579)

Remember when it took two people to move an HP oscilloscope and HP was an even better company to work for than the Japanese? Remember when the HP field service guys would come out to fix your 9000 and they could tell what was wrong with it by the taste of the dust on top of the cabinet? And they could tell you what 6-digit hex error codes meant from memory? What a difference 20 years makes when a great company is handed over to short-sighted idiots.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080597)

Why are the Japanese good employers?

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (1)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 2 months ago | (#47080631)

Back in the 80s, Japan was doing really well, and Japanese companies were well-regarded for taking care of, and being loyal to, their employees. Every "Top 10 Best Companies To Work For" article featured 9 Japanese companies and HP.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47081179)

And, do you believe that Japanese companies are still good employers or subject to all the same forces that motivate any other public company?

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (5, Insightful)

Nethemas the Great (909900) | about 2 months ago | (#47080641)

So instead of leveraging their assets (their employees) to develop new and relevant products they choose to gut the place to appease shareholders in the short-term. What a disgusting waste. The brand HP is meaningless without the talent that once stood behind it.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47080979)

but: the talent that made HP has long ago left!

no one I know aspires to work for HP anymore. its not a choice place of work anymore.

not sure what quality of person still works there. like SGI, it was once a giant and the talent pool was first-class; but like SGI, there's no talent left and its a shell of what it once was.

(funny that they both used to be big unix workstation companies, too)

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (1)

mirix (1649853) | about 2 months ago | (#47080723)

Agilent still makes cool, quality stuff as far as I know. Expensive as always, though. The modern stuff running linux or windows doesn't feel quite the same as old, hefty CRT stuff... which is all I can afford anyway, but still looks to be built well.

I think of them as HP, and "HP" as the shitty consumer products division that it fled from.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (5, Insightful)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 2 months ago | (#47080789)

Hewlett-Packard . . . ? A company built up by great engineers, run down by bad MBAs . . .

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (0)

roman_mir (125474) | about 2 months ago | (#47080865)

Carly? Sure, she didn't know what was going on, however it is not an HP problem, this is America's problem. Actually this is a collectivist problem, a Marxist problem, a communist problem, a fascist problem.

This is a problem of government that grows based on inflation - creating money out of thin air and then pretending that inflation is good for you, while in reality it is used to prop up asset purchases by the US 'too big to fail' and it's used to prop up the failing USA welfare state. This is a problem of government, the very existence of government is the problem. There is no reason to have any centralised governments in a global economy, but never mind reason, there is no justification to have a monopoly on violence when when have already proven as a species that we do best when we are free as individuals to innovate, to create new ideas and businesses, to build supply, which increases competition and lowers prices.

The problem with HP and so many others is that they are operating in a non-free environment by the rules set up by the collectivist propagandists that are hell bent on ruling you, not on letting live.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (2)

rhodium_mir (2876919) | about 2 months ago | (#47081219)

Apparently you haven't read my other posts. As I explained a while ago, existence is the problem [slashdot.org] . Please excuse yourself from the conversation until you have had time to review the extensive writing I have done on the topic. Thank you.

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47080941)

and they are also reduced to producing shit for handheld dmm's:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/t... [eevblog.com]

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/t... [eevblog.com]

agilent used to be good. for high end gear, they probably still are; but it seems they have fallen down quite a bit over the years.

HP - they are useless, now. when they were more than a printer-ink company, they were a force to be reckoned with. now, they are a printer-ink and pc whore.

how the mighty have fallen ;(

Re:It's sad what has happened to HP (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 2 months ago | (#47081093)

No longer Agilent anymore since the life sciences division is the big money maker and they spun out the true HP T&M group with the stupid name of Keysight. I dream of HP going bankrupt soon and Keysight buying back their rightful name at auction for a pittance.

Just think of how much they'd save if they just (4, Insightful)

mark_reh (2015546) | about 2 months ago | (#47080363)

got rid of ALL the employees!

I suggest they start at the top!

Blueprint for success (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080381)

1. Build a product people want to buy. Do not shit on your customers. (HP is now failing here)
2. Support your products to a reasonable degree. (HP is failing here too)
3. Treat employees like valued portion of the business. (Huge HP failure here)

There you have it. The SROP (standard republican operating procedure) is now being followed at HP. HP is on a death spiral into garbage land. A few key wealthy republicans are profiting massively, and working people are getting screwed.

Astro-turfing Democrat (0, Troll)

RoccamOccam (953524) | about 2 months ago | (#47080997)

Anyone else noticed the obviously pre-meditated attempts at injecting clumsy Republican-bashing in every single story for which there is even the slightest semblance of relevancy. I honestly think it's an organized campaign.

How about cutting severance packages first? (4, Informative)

BeanBagKing (1151733) | about 2 months ago | (#47080399)

Wasn't HP the one that, not long ago, hired and fired about 5 CEO's in the course of 7 years. Paying each a 8 figure severance package on their way out?

Re:How about cutting severance packages first? (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | about 2 months ago | (#47080643)

They needed to give each other the money they made selling off DEC IP to each others future patent troll companies before the left.

1) Direct the company to buy IP from another company.
2) Sell the IP off to patent trolls.
3) Leave with a golden parachute to run the patent troll company.
4) Watch the people left behind loose their jobs.

Re:How about cutting severance packages first? (5, Informative)

BeanBagKing (1151733) | about 2 months ago | (#47080681)

Since this was marked informative (thank you) I thought it would be fun to dig up the actual figures. It isn't quite as bad as I seem to remember, but I still think it's indicative of a company that pays far too much to CEO's that are either temporary, or fail to perform. Feel free to correct me where I've made a mistake, this isn't the type of thing I want to spend all night on, but perhaps someone would have fun finding their actual yearly salaries and bonuses.

CEO Carly Fiorina served from 1999 to 2005, since then it looks like HP has had 5 CEO's including the current one

Carly Fiorina - July 1999 to Feb 2005 - $20m severance
Robert Wayman - Feb 2005 to Mar 2005 - $3m cash bonus - Interim CEO
Mark Hurd - April 2005 to Aug 2010 - $12.2m severance
Cathie Lesjack - Aug 2010 to Sep 2010 - $1m cash bonus, 2.5m stock grants - Interim CEO
Leo Apotheker - Sep 2010 to Sep 2011 - $7.2m severance
Meg Whitman - Sep 2011 to Present


So I was exaggerating a bit, but lets look at this from a worst case scenario.

From 2005 to 2011 (6 years) HP had 6 CEO's, that's an average of a CEO a year (not really, because we're taking the end of one's career and the beginning of another, but like I said, worst case). Not including their regular "pay", they took home a total of $45.9m in severance pay, an average of $9.18m per CEO not including Meg, who has yet to receive a severance package (we're waiting..). Basically, that's 9.2m for each for being fired. Here's the crazy part. The Interim CEO's, who by all accounts did a fine job (looking mostly at Robert Wayman), got paid less than those who were "let go" (namely Mark Hurd and Leo Apotheker)

So things aren't quite as bad with the CEO's as I seem to have remembered, but I still feel like that's fairly abismal performance for a company that has been falling off a cliff since... well, since I can remember. Granted I'm young compared to some of you, but I can remember the days before Carly Fiorina, and a time I wouldn't go near HP computers because of how terrible I thought they were, for a variety of reasons that's pointless to debate here.

OPENVMS is Dead! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080415)

There goes the last of the DEC workers...

Re:OPENVMS is Dead! (1)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 2 months ago | (#47080507)

Open VMS. Best Oxymoron. Evar.

HP (3, Interesting)

confused one (671304) | about 2 months ago | (#47080423)

I say the 50,000 employees all team up and create a company named Homeward Bound (HB). Seems appropriate since HP sent them all home. They can sell software as a service, cheap servers, re-badge some cheap laptops and tablets, and maybe sell a few printers. Then they should do something different and maybe provide support from regional offices -- you call and you get someone within driving distance of your site, who can show up and actually help you solve your problem.

HP (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080985)

I say the 50,000 employees all team up and create a company named Homeward Bound (HB). Seems appropriate since HP sent them all home. They can sell software as a service, cheap servers, re-badge some cheap laptops and tablets, and maybe sell a few printers. Then they should do something different and maybe provide support from regional offices -- you call and you get someone within driving distance of your site, who can show up and actually help you solve your problem.

On a related note, Dell had one service technician for the entirety of southern Maine when I was a freshman in college.

He drove two hours to come and fix my computer under warranty when there was an issue. He stayed despite a snow storm and was generally just a decent guy.

That was fourteen years ago. It took little over a decade to piss all of this away.

Innovation? (1)

manu0601 (2221348) | about 2 months ago | (#47080557)

Don't they have a strategy? Some innovation that they could invest on to stay ahead? That would be more promising for the future than reducing workforce.

Re:Innovation? (3, Insightful)

Nethemas the Great (909900) | about 2 months ago | (#47080655)

Their CEOs don't believe they have a future. Better for them to loot and pillage before jumping off the boat.

Re:Innovation? (1)

manu0601 (2221348) | about 2 months ago | (#47080771)

Then perhaps they could start by laying off the CEO? A CEO without a strategy is just a useless cost.

Re:Innovation? (1)

CanadianMacFan (1900244) | about 2 months ago | (#47080849)

Unfortunately as long as the CEO is keeping the share price going up then they are doing a good job.

Brought to you by: (3, Interesting)

jmd (14060) | about 2 months ago | (#47080567)

Capitalism.

More info here: https://www.adbusters.org/

Brought to you by the campaign to re-elect.... (5, Insightful)

eclectro (227083) | about 2 months ago | (#47080571)

It proves that if you can give a corporation tax breaks and throw off the shackles of regulation, they will do better and want to hire more people. Oh...wait.

one device to rule them all (1)

Strange Ranger (454494) | about 2 months ago | (#47080607)

They could totally turn themselves around if they offered exactly what just about everybody wants..
 
A ROCK SOLID home multifunction office machine. Rock Solid meaning slick bomb-proof drivers as well as a machine that didn't crap out on a black and white report because the yellow ink was low. This machine would also need a paper feed that didn't require the moon to be in proper alignment during a squirrel sacrifice in order to feed mostly whatever you put it in.
 
Then, offer them like cell phones. Charge less up front but only a bit less. Quit selling junk and hoping to cheat everybody on ink. Let me sign up for a quality service and ink renewal plan that works like a cheaper version of a smart phone. Make it as trouble free and pain free as your average smart phone. I'll sign up tomorrow.

Re:one device to rule them all (1)

Nyder (754090) | about 2 months ago | (#47080645)

...
Then, offer them like cell phones. Charge less up front but only a bit less. Quit selling junk and hoping to cheat everybody on ink. Let me sign up for a quality service and ink renewal plan that works like a cheaper version of a smart phone. Make it as trouble free and pain free as your average smart phone. I'll sign up tomorrow.

Yes, just like cell phones. You only get to print 1000 sheets of paper on your current plan and it cost an extra $5 per page printed above that.

And I could go on, but I think everyone gets the point.

Re:one device to rule them all (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about 2 months ago | (#47080753)

> Rock Solid meaning slick bomb-proof drivers as well as a machine that didn't crap out

I'm afraid HP desktops took on the "planned obsolescence" model around the time they bought Compaq. They've done the same for personal color printers, which are _much_ more expensive if you try to make them robust. Instead they make their money on the ink, and they make their deesktop and laptop money on the high turnover.

Unfortunately, similar attitudes seem to have infested their servers, which are no longer the reliable standard they used to represent. They do occasionally have leading edge features, but please name 2 environments that actually benefited from using Infiniband or Firewire.

Re:one device to rule them all (1)

smellotron (1039250) | about 2 months ago | (#47081209)

please name 2 environments that actually benefited from using Infiniband

HPC clusters and cloud providers. Several financial exchanges (CME, NASDAQ) appear to be in the process of adopting Infiniband, but every reference I see sounds like a press releases from Mellanox and not yet a demonstrable application.

I can smell the curry, already! (2)

BobandMax (95054) | about 2 months ago | (#47080615)

Outsource out whatever you can and cover the rest with H1B imports. The stock price will go up, for a while, and everyone will live crappily ever after.

Re:I can smell the curry, already! (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47081007)

sadly, this is the standard operating procedure for the bay area, at least. it seems every local company is filled with immigrants and to find a local walking in the hallway is a rare sight.

you know the drill and the standard term for it: race to the bottom.

HP is no different from all the rest. respect for employees is non-existent and employees are expected to 'pay' the price for any bad performance of the company.

in fact, standard operating procedure for the bay area is not to even hire fulltime people anymore. most companies cheap-out by starting you off as a contractor, making YOU pay your healthcare costs, unpaid vacation, unpaid sick time and no on the job training. you do that for 6mos or more (saving the company money and costing YOU, instead) and maybe they will convert you to perm. maybe.

all the while, the company saved a huge amount during those 6mos and YOU funded the company and carried THEM on your back.

hey, lets shift costs that we used to bear over to the employees. what are they going to do - strike? hahahaha.

(sigh) ;(

I can't wait until I'm of retirement age. this new american 'work ethic' is pissing me off big-time.

Re:I can smell the curry, already! (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 2 months ago | (#47081027)

More head-wobblers. Just what people need.

Slashdot Login Page has expired SSL certificate (3, Informative)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about 2 months ago | (#47080699)

Just in case other people notice, the SSL certificate for the Slashdot login page expired today.

Re:Slashdot Login Page has expired SSL certificate (4, Informative)

Soulskill (1459) | about 2 months ago | (#47080731)

It sure did. Working on getting it fixed now. Apologies if it inconvenienced you!

I approve (0)

amightywind (691887) | about 2 months ago | (#47080763)

As an HP shareholder, I approve of this. HP should adjust employment to maximize profits. Any business should.

Badly run company does badly... (3, Insightful)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 2 months ago | (#47080777)

Shocking.

HP is screwed up. Who actually likes their products anymore that has a clue? Even their printers are nothing special anymore. That company has no market. The only time I see HP stuff as at big box stores where they're competing for the least informed computer purchases.

Does the smart money buy HP? When was the last time it did?... Exactly. HP is a dying company.

Current management needs to get the axe and the company needs to be restructured there after.

Re:Badly run company does badly... (1)

CanadianMacFan (1900244) | about 2 months ago | (#47080855)

A few years ago I had a job where I had to look after blades from IBM and HP. There was no contest. The IBM blades were so much better that I tried to move all of my stuff over to the IBM computers because the HP blades were junk.

Re:Badly run company does badly... (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 months ago | (#47081017)

IBM is nothing to brag about either!

they are 90% offshore staffed. if you are an american, do not even bother applying for a job at ibm anymore.

I would not touch IBM shit today with a 10 foot pole.

Gee, thanks Carly (1)

shm (235766) | about 2 months ago | (#47080797)

Thanks to you, HP tries to make money from ink.
Ink. And not by making decent printers and ink, but by
playing games with the cartridge sizes (18ml vs 30ml, anyone, with a dash of DRM.)

The real HP is called Agilent.

That's making money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080805)

It looks more like dying off if you ask me.

Considering they are ruled by a Republican... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080809)

WTF else did you expect? They admit to hating everyone that isn't an old white rich person so why should we be surprised when one of them does the happy dance for putting 16,000 more people out on the streets. I worked there for almost seven years, and the toxic environment was stunning. I saw people fired for being uncomfortable around guns. Those Republicans can tell when someone isn't such a violent thug that they're willing to own a gun so they fire us. They have destroyed this country, and now they are working on destroying more of the world. Just look at how excited Whitman was about the US trying to incite a war in Ukraine. That is their way.

Fire all the workers. Brilliant! (2, Insightful)

bongey (974911) | about 2 months ago | (#47080823)

MBA1: We should fire all the workers, look how much money we would save. MBA2: Brilliant!!

Hey at least she is only breaking HP. (2)

bussdriver (620565) | about 2 months ago | (#47081067)

She can't outsource American citizens and make things appear better; that is, other than deporting a bunch of people... which was probably in her campaign platform. (No, I'm not saying that would help the country but it would be consistent reasoning.)
  So... did HP rob the pensions yet?

How can anybody let her get away saying such extreme BS like that? Corporations and capitalists LOVE to fire employees. That is point of the game; to pay as little as possible and get as much for the shareholders as possible. They ONLY hire people out of extreme necessity and as soon as it's possible they fire people. They aim low as possible in every nation they reside in. That is just good business. They resent having to pay anybody because that is overhead taking away from their profit margins.

mod 3o3n (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080853)

On the upside (1)

Tetetrasaurus (1859006) | about 2 months ago | (#47080923)

Now there's 15,000 more people vying for the first post in Slashdot stories.

HP - Great Name - Good Riddance (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080943)

As others have commented, HP used to be a great company. I have a stack of what used to be very expensive electronics test equipment in my home lab, all of it with an HP label, except for a Tektronix scope. The equipment I have is between 20 and 50 (!!) years old but it works flawlessly and accurately.

HP started Silicon Valley.

But Hewlett and Packard died and the bean counters took over.

HP is the poster child for how greed can completely destroy a company. Simple case in point, an "honest broker" would sell printers at a fair price, and sell the ink at a fair price as well. The product would compete on its merits. Instead the crooks at HP will sell you a $50 printer to get you hooked, and then sell $40 ink cartridges that are 1/4 full. Instead of investing in way to make their printers better value, the invest in ways to embed DRM in the print cartridge because that's how they can maximize profits. A child can identify this as immoral. I personally am looking forward to the final end for this disaster, like Zenith, RCA and other former greats.

The bean counters spun off the equipment branch into Agilent and moved it Malaysia; sending the know-how on how to build the world's best test equipment overseas. Does the US have the capability to manufacture the world's best test equipment anymore? Hell no, the "tribal knowledge" is lost. It will be impossible to get this back, unless the Malaysians decide it will be cheaper to ship the whole factory back to the US. Good luck on that.

This is also why you can't get to space in an American rocket anymore, better brush up on your Russian skills. America is so medicated with the TV, hearing about Kimye and whoever Miley was twerking with last week, its a disaster.

Re:HP - Great Name - Good Riddance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47081077)

Empires raise and fall, it's ok for the US to fall behind and for the Chinese to take over. Let's just hope they do a better job for the next 200 years. I'll be so dead.. good riddance USA!

Re:HP - Great Name - Good Riddance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47081135)

hp spun off agilent so it would not get dragged down.

i blame most of this on microsoft for making shity software

Re:HP - Great Name - Good Riddance (5, Interesting)

Beeftopia (1846720) | about 2 months ago | (#47081165)

I discovered the big problem in American business today: Executives can make big money by running a company aground. Enough money so that their grandchildren won't have to work.

Greenspan thought companies would self regulate. His mistake was subtle: He assumed that the leadership of the company needed the company to be healthy in order for the executives to prosper. But a new pattern emerged: executives could engage in behavior which could yield a multiple-lifetime supply of wealth by engaging in practices which ultimately destroyed the company.

And that's what happened to the financial sector in the US. And doubtless other companies which yield this particular prize.

I don't know what the common underlying reason is but this is the common symptom - being able to make the Big Score by running a company aground.

Meg (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47080945)

How does she have a job? I can fuck up more than her if that's what they want.

HP is a goner (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47081103)

HP has nothing that is unique. They are losing market share in every market segment they are in. I don't see them surviving in the long run.

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