Google Suggests Separating Students With 'Some CS Knowledge' From Novices 307
theodp writes To address the challenge of rapidly increasing CS enrollments and increasing diversity, reports the Computing Education Blog, Google in November put out an RFP to universities for its invite-only 3X in 3 Years: CS Capacity Award program, which aims "to support faculty in finding innovative ways to address the capacity problem in their CS courses." In the linked-to RFP document, Google suggests that "students that have some CS background" should not be allowed to attend in-person intro CS courses where they "may be more likely to create a non-welcoming environment," and recommends that they instead be relegated to online courses. According to a recent NSF press release, this recommendation would largely exclude Asian and White boys from classrooms, which seems to be consistent with a Google-CodeCademy award program that offers $1,000 bonuses to teachers who get 10 or more high school kids to take a JavaScript course, but only counts students from "groups traditionally underrepresented in computer science (girls, or boys who identify as African American, Latino, American Indian or Alaska Native)." The project suggested in the Google RFP — which could be worth $1.5 million over 3 years to a large CS department — seems to embrace-and-extend a practice implemented at Harvey Mudd College years ago under President Maria Klawe, which divided the intro CS offering into separate sections based upon prior programming experience to — as the NY Times put it — reduce the intimidation factor of young men, already seasoned programmers, who dominated the class. Google Director of Education and University Relations Maggie Johnson, whose name appears on the CS Capacity RFP, is also on the Board of Code.org (where Klawe is coincidentally an Advisory Board member), the K-12 learn-to-code nonprofit that has received $3+ million from Google and many millions more from other tech giants and their execs. Earlier this week, Code.org received the blessing of the White House and NSF to train 25,000 teachers to teach CS, stirring unease among some educators concerned about the growing influence of corporations in public schools.
Just let them test out! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm all for keeping experienced CS students out of intro classes! I was forced to take one of those idiotic intro courses in college, even though I already knew the material! Attendance was mandatory, and no test out option allowed. Complete waste of my time, and it certainly ruined the curve for the true intro level students. I suspect other readers had similar experiences.
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Same thing happened to me. (Long story as a cross-over from Physics.) As a CSci senior, they made me take the Intro class - even though I knew the material inside-out and was a tutor for the class. I volunteered to take every test in one sitting and write every programming assignment the same day. Instead, I got to sit through boring lectures and steal an A from some deserving student.
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Instead, I got to sit through boring lectures and steal an A from some deserving student.
I didn't know that American classrooms were a zero-sum game... Is that common?
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I didn't know that American classrooms were a zero-sum game... Is that common?
Many teachers grade on a curve, where the highest grade in the class becomes an "A", and everyone else is graded relative to that "A".
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(GP here) This is what I was referring to. Several of my undergrad classes were graded on a curve, where only the top percentage of students receive "A"s. If it happens to be an easy class or there are a lot of top performers, then nit-picky things become enough to push your grade down to a B.
That said, I don't know if Intro to CS was one of those classes. It was only an assumption. So, criticism of my earlier statement might be called for.
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I've often read about the classes being marked on a curve. That always seemed a little weird to me.
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And it just makes for a miserable experience for everyone.
When I took Chinese,* 80% of the class spoke some dialect of Chinese at home, and were there to a) learn Mandarin b) learn to read and write c) get an easy language credit. Okay, I'm enough of a masochist that I kind of enjoyed the challenge of trying to keep up in this environment as someone who came in speaking no Chinese at all, but it could be pretty depressing, and for someone with a less twisted disposition than I it would probably have been pr
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Separating people like this and when they're younger will mean the kids in the online course will think they're better than everyone else and will believe the ones in the in-person course need special help because those types of people are slow, dumber, and bad at CS. This policy will harm the field more than help it.
Public school already does this constantly. Even in 1st grade the kids who can read are put in a different reading
group than the kids who can't. It happens in college too. I didn't pass a math test my freshman year in college
and had to take a trig class. I also noticed that at my college most of the kids that got A's or even passed calc 1
the first time thru were the ones that had previously taken it in HS. This just makes sense. I'm not sure why
google is emphasizing online classes but online or not wh
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Most colleges use the intro classes to weed out the sick and the lame. Big group lecture hall with a non-english speaking grad student giving instruction. I think Google sees that it's never going to get colleges to change how they do classes. Moving experienced students to an online class is a way of disrupting the system.
I still am a little dubious. There were plenty of people who go Comp-Sci degrees in the late 90s who had very little interest in computers and programing. But IT was a big money fiel
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"There were plenty of people who go Comp-Sci degrees in the late 90s who had very little interest in computers and programing."
Ye gods, yes. I thought of them as the crowd who in most times would have been PoliSci majors as pre-law. One could have an interesting discussion about whether they lacked interest or programmer disposition, but yeesh, yes, whatever it was, they didn't have it.
As an aside, whether intro classes are used as weeder classes depends on the college and on the discipline (though I suppos
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It was the dot-com boom era. Established companies (bricks and mortar) were slow to catch onto the the internet presence, so there were thousands of startups which tried to fill that niche (Peapod who did online groceries, companies who get your bills redirected, so they could be opened and scanned in, so all you had to do was write the cheque to the utility company, and Amazon). The people that jumped into the CompSci courses at this time, were referred to as gold-diggers who were only interested in the mo
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In other words, ... (Score:5, Insightful)
... the way to address the diversity issue is to dumb everybody down? Sure, that sounds like it would provide a level playing field, but the goddam field would be below sea level.
Back to the drawing board.
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... the way to address the diversity issue is to dumb everybody down?
I don't think that is what they are saying. I have kids in elementary school, and I volunteer to help out in class and in an after-school programming and robotics program. There are HUGE differences in ability between kids, and dumping them all into one class doesn't make much sense. A typical Chinese-American boy is going to be lightyears ahead of a typical Latino girl. If you direct instruction toward the smart kids, the dumb kids will be lost. If you focus on the dumb kids, the smart kids will be bo
The geek is no fun at parties. (Score:2)
the way to address the diversity issue is to dumb everybody down? Sure, that sounds like it would provide a level playing field, but the goddam field would be below sea level.
The geek's natural instinct to assert his god-given superiority at the worst possible moment can ruin the experience for everyone.
This isn't about "dumbing down," it's about getting the know-it-alls, the intellectual bullies, the inflated egos, out of the room, so others can prosper.
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Perhaps there's something to the pervasive media narrative about Silicon Valley after all. Not only do they have no ability to relate to the non-asian and non-white crowd but they also have no ability to relate to whites that aren't rich enough for east coast boarding schools either.
I have plenty of anecdotal data points that would contradict their race based criteria. That likely comes from not living the life of privelege that they imagine I have.
Or perhaps this is just what you get when you let liberal b
Admit it. (Score:5, Funny)
You read it as "Harry Mudd College"
They're a resource, not a "problem". (Score:3)
reduce the intimidation factor of young men, already seasoned programmers, who dominated the class.
Why not assign each of these to pair up with someone who isn't as far along, instead of saying "you can't go here"?
Re:They're a resource, not a "problem". (Score:4, Insightful)
You'd also then have to teach them to teach.
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It would be. So would learning how to change the paper in a printer. So would be training for reading documentation thoroughly. And giving presentations. And enough accounting and finance to get by talking with a CFO. There are many things that could be useful to many students. But this is CS. And there's already a lot of material to cover. Teaching is no more important than any of those other things.
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You'd also then have to teach them to teach.
No. Kids "teach" each other all the time just by playing. All they'd need is supervision, which the teacher is supposed to be providing anyway.
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Because they think they're hotshots and have the kinds of attitudes you see in the posts for this story.
"Here, give me the keyboard, why don't you write up the results or something."
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Because they think they're hotshots and have the kinds of attitudes you see in the posts for this story.
"Here, give me the keyboard, why don't you write up the results or something."
You seem to have forgotten that teachers will be supervising the activities.
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This is the most naive statement I've ever seen on Slashdot. And I've seen some real doozies.
You think some nerdy 18 year old who spent his high school years hacking the Linux kernel is going to magically understand how to interact with other people and "break down the gender divide"? They'll send every woman who joins the class screaming off into the arms of the nearest humanities professor within a week.
Riiiight, like how many 18-year-olds are kernel hackers? Just downloading and compiling it doesn't count as "hacking the kernel".
No wonder kids today fail to escape the stereotype box - nobody else is willing to challenge the "truthiness" of the stereotypes. Herd Mentality Uber Ales.
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If you're going to be anti-nerd, you're going to lose out on most of your best students. It's not mere accident that CS and nerds go together.
And of course as a nerd myself, if you're anti-nerd and consider nerds to be a problem, I'm against your programs; you're just
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No, they are a problem, not a resource.
If you assign each of these to pair up with someone who isn't as far along, then the "isn't as far along" people will flee en masse from the courses. 18 year old male Asperger's cases are NOT the ones you want assigned primary responsibility for teaching at the university level. Unless you want to assure that you're industry is comprised of nothing but 22 year old Asperger's cases.
Playing to stereotypes isn't the way to advance your argument. Most programmers don't have Asperger's (and that's even including the "self-diagnosed", which isn't a valid criteria). Also, where did I say "primary responsibility?" Oops, I didn't. This is no excuse for the instructors to duck out of their teaching and supervision responsibilities.
But if you want to play with stereotypes, here's one "Most of those horny male nerds are just like The Big Bang Theory, and would take ANY excuse to be paired
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How about you just let these "seasoned programmers" test out of the introduction classes and jump directly into the non-intro classes?
That would certainly work if the sole goal of attending introductory classes was the material at hand.
I'd wager that a significant part of the into level courses is indoctrinating the students to the educational/class framework that they have to work in (this is how you behave in class, this is how you treat fellow students, this is how you layout your coursework etc). Thus by letting them skip class levels, you are potentially pushing non-indoctrinated students into the midst of the indoctrinated ones and
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Also, even a beginner class should introduce good practices. Just because someone taught themselves to hack out javascript doesn't mean they have a clue how to code properly. Pushing them into an advanced class won't do them any favors.
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Colleges hate letting people skip intro classes. And usually allow only one class to be skipped. When skilled students take intro classes it makes a lot of money for the school. Also you don't want native foreign language speakers testing their way to a degree in their own language.
Indeed (Score:2)
How about you just let these "seasoned programmers" test out of the introduction classes and jump directly into the non-intro classes? Can't have that, though, as that would promote inequality further by giving them a chance to take sophomore level classes as freshman. Oh the humanity...
Indeed, I was thinking the same. If a student already has some CS background, he/she should be allowed to skip intro courses. We already do that with college assessment and AP programs for subjects such as Math, Chem, Physics and English Writing. So why not with CS? Put CS students through a comprehensive series of tests, and depending on the results, they should be allowed to skip intro-level courses (either granting full credit, or letting them take more advance courses for those credits).
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Re:Radical thought here (Score:5, Informative)
Stanford had a good approach to this, at least when I went there (probably still do).
The intro-CS courses were offered in two parts (CS106A/B) or a single accelerated course (CS106X), with the requirement that students taking the accelerated course have previous programming experience.
All students end up covering the same material (which is important, since high school instruction varies greatly in quality), but you don't have half the class getting bored and the other half lost at the same time.
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Similar to Affirmative Action - a white man (Score:3, Interesting)
This was played out already, albeit in a different scenario.
Over 25 years ago I was admitted into the SUNY Binghamton (NY) CS masters degree program. I had no CS training at all and did not qualify. However, their affirmative action program included something like extra entry points for veterans so I got in. I was required to take tough summer long CS course, along with many African American and female students. It brought us up to speed enough to compete next semester with those who were already knowledgeable . Otherwise we would not have made it.
Affirmative Action students spent their own money and their own time. The reward for America was a raising of the skills level for a lot more people, white (me) as well as black. I don't know if AA like this is still legal, but what Google is suggesting - the effective sequestering of unprepared individuals until they are ready - is a good idea.
PS: I finished 11th of an original 100 on the MS overall final
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the effective sequestering of unprepared individuals until they are ready - is a good idea.
Certainly: if you are trying to teach a class it is a pain in the neck if half of the sudents doen't actually know the prerequisite material. The obvious solution is to teach them the prerequisiste material.
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And the other half of this is that students who not only have the pre-requisites but have already learned the course material should be able to test out. Perhaps required to test out, because cocky young know-it-alls can be distracting, and perhaps intimidating, to the rest of the class.
Is there enough student material? (Score:3, Interesting)
With this in mind, it's concerning with this big ramp-up in number of CS-trained individuals. I feel we have been at the bottom of the barrel for some years already. Given that it has been well-known to everyone for many years that IT is one of the easiest areas to find employment in and that the salary is comparatively good, and the constant media focus on smartphones, apps and whatnot, it seems reasonable to assume that most people with just a faint interest and ability in IT would have pursued that path already. With this ramp-up, it seems there's a high risk that the market will be flooded by sub-par candidates and that it will be much more than what the market is already absorbing. The result will be massive unemployment among those newly trained CS-people, who were never meant to study CS to begin with.
Its half of a good idea (Score:2)
MeritNOTcracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether you negatively discriminate against some group or positively discriminate for every other group, it doesn't matter what your motives are it's always an injustice.
Liberals: it's racist to help poor blacks from the city while excluding poor whites from Appalachia -- by definition. There's no such thing as "good racism". It's sexist to help girls get into coding while excluding boys. There's no such thing as "good sexism".
The fair way to help some people over others is when you do it based on need and merit. Help poor kids of all types to get into coding. Help kids who's schools don't offer a programming class. Don't test somebody's genes or say their skin has to be darker than 0xE0A070 to qualify -- that's sexist and racist.
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Isn't this based on merit? As far as I can tell they're proposing that kids who already know some programming be put into a different CS101 track than those who can't. White and black kids who know programming would go into one track, and white and black kids who don't know any programming would go into the other one. You might expect there to be a different mix of kids in each of these groups (because more white kids have been introduced to programming before college), but the decision is not based on race
Re:MeritNOTcracy (Score:5, Insightful)
The very fist sentence states the goal to "attract and retain women and underrepresented minorities" and criteria include "enrollment growth and retention of women and diverse students" and funding based on increasing "underrepresented groups in computer science: women, underrepresented ethnic minorities".
The entire purpose of this program is to selectively favor women and some minorities. A poor white or asian boy is actively discriminated against by this program. It's unabashed liberal racism and sexism.
If you were born white or asian into a bad situation, should you be further punished by Google specifically excluding you based on your accident of birth, something that you cannot change? Because that's what this program is, and it's disgusting.
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How are poor white or asian boys discriminated against? They are the least likely to have had any programming experience before college, so would be treated the same as underrepresented minorities who have no programming experience before college.
A goal of the program is indeed to retain women and underrepresented minorities, but the mechanism used to do so is solely by separating the intro classes between "have no programming experience" and "have programming experience". They believe that doing so will ma
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A goal of the program is indeed to retain women and underrepresented minorities, but the mechanism used to do so is solely by separating the intro classes between "have no programming experience" and "have programming experience".
This is one suggestion, a "possible project idea", but the rules Google lays out are clear: increase the proportion of women and minorities or lose funding.
Google set up this program as a competition among colleges to see who can come up with the most effective and least blatant ways to discriminate for women and some minorities, and against men and whites/asians. This is in the rules, in the selection process, and in the evaluation for continued funding. If a college comes up with a program that accident
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You do realize that Appalachia gets a ton of Federal aid [wikipedia.org]. The official region covers a broad swath ranging from New York to the deep south.
Common in foreign language classes (Score:2)
This reminds me of a common practice in foreign language classes -- if a student shows up to a language class (e.g. Spanish) and is obviously too advanced for the level, then the student will not be allowed to return to that class. This is partially done for reasons of fairness (getting an A that's too easy), but mostly because it's actively detrimental for the basic students to have an advanced student in the classroom. They speak too quickly for the other students to understand, and their presence can be
Intro CS Courses Vary by Majors at Large Schools (Score:2)
University of Illinois CS Courses [illinois.edu]: CS101 (Engineering & Science), CS102 (Non-Tech), CS125 (CS Majors). What seems to be missing is providing slower on-ramps for those who did not have good early training [wordpress.com] that may be interested in majoring in CS, perhaps one or two courses for no credit, not unlike what CS undergraduate degree holders seeking an MBA would be required to take [una.edu] to catch up on Business/Finance subjects before they can start coursework that counts towards the MBA degree.
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In other words, what mnooning said [slashdot.org]. :-)
Streaming (Score:2, Informative)
The university where I studied and, briefly, taught, began splitting Intro to Programming three ways, all three groups were self-selecting and migration to the other groups was unlimited and without penalty. Intro is a first year course and thus has no effect on your overall degree rank, it matters only that you can pass it.
- A high flyer group. Virtually all students who'd written a non-trivial program before applying tended to start in this stream. This group covers the assigned work very quickly, and the
Yeah, let's lower the standards (Score:2)
I had some programming background when I took CS101. I found that being good at writing spaghetti code (or even simple OO code) that works is not something that puts you ahead of other students in a computer science course, and that you actually have to learn the course material in order to pass. Who would have guessed!
If people like me don't have to take CS101 then we're slowly but surely going to end up with a community of programmers/engineers who don't have a firm enough grasp of basic concepts in compu
fast-tracking isn't about race or gender (Score:5, Informative)
As a CS professor, I can't tell you how many times we've lost students with great potential in CS because they had no prior experience but were comparing themselves to inferior students with a year or two of programming experience in high school. If you get the students who have prior experience into a "fast track" class (e.g. that compresses the first year into a single term) then both the "experienced" and "naive" students can actually learn at their own pace. Fortunately, I teach at a small college, and so most times we can identify those students and get them into a better class. And I'm actually in favor of having students with a lot of experience start by skipping a class or two. The sooner students are surrounded by their "peers" in ability/experience, the faster and more reliably they're going to engage.
But to be clear: the issue isn't that people should be actively sorting the students so that only female and non-white students are in the CS1 class. That's a horrible idea, racist, sexist, and all the other "ists" you can come up with. It is likely that the "normal" track will have more non-white and female students in it because that's what the high school demographics say: non-white/non-Asian/female students are less likely to have prior experience. But it's also true that there will be more students from rural schools in the "normal" track, because rural schools are less likely to have computer programming courses.
I liked being in class with preprared students (Score:2)
I knew nothing in my intro to programming class, but there were some guys in the class who were already programmers, and I liked having them there. They were helpful and I could see where the class might take me. My brother-in-law on the other hand had the opposite experience. He felt like he was constantly getting left behind because everyone else in the class could go further, faster.
Sounds like it's time to allow for students to test out of CS classes.
Segregation (Score:2)
You can look at it in two ways, either against those with prior experience or a rapid learning rate or against those with little experience or a slower learning rate. Why are we speaking about putting people into ghettos[1]?
In any event there are two important questions that come to mind:
1) What happens when the AP twits have to work in a heterogeneous environment? Will they have the "soft skills" they need to function in such a work place?
2) There is the question of whether online courses are even effectiv
Footnote (Score:2)
[1] I actually have the same question about student athletes and folks in a specific discipline on a near by campus where they live in the same dorm; really condos; have their own library or study area, their own dining areas (no longer cafeterias, now called food courts), rec centers etc. I do not think that is condusive to getting a good education.
This just shows the truth: Grading is mostly bogus (Score:2)
Grading is mostly bogus. You have a maximum of 30 numbers on a sheet of paper at the age of 19 that's supposed to determine wether you are suitable for this or that specialist job. Utter bullshit in specialist cases such as CS.
Think of specialist cases as the same with musicians. If you haven't plaved the piano since the age of 12 at least - good luck finding a conservatory that will take you. Same with ballett: You have to be good and dancing and have the right body measures and start in your single digit
Racism. (Score:2)
Little boys have just as much right to an education as little girls
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Most people I know have half a dozen geographies in their genetic background and everyone is a different shade of color. Race is now irrelevant.
What does matter is what people do. Having someone - anyone - in a class that screws up the bell curve makes others feel bad. In most of those classes the ace student is celebrated, but obviously not here. PR over results.
CS is overrated anyway. 10% should be CS, 30% should be Software Engineers, and 50% grunt work Programmers. All very different education.
Re:Screw you white boys (Score:5, Interesting)
Not quite. Race SHOULD BE irrelevant but it's most definitely not, particularly these days. Gender SHOULD BE irrelevant but it's most definitely not. What should be of the utmost importance is a person's ability. As a historical reference, look at how the chemical industry got started back in the Victorian era. A British research student discovered the world's first artificial dye. But his teachers were all German. Why? Because back then, the Germans were very good at opening universities and technical schools and letting anyone attend based on merit, never mind their family background. To the British, such behavior was very much lower-class so they blew a golden opportunity to capitalize on a totally new science which the Germans took to the bank.
Re:Screw you white boys (Score:5, Funny)
CS is overrated anyway. 10% should be CS, 30% should be Software Engineers, and 50% grunt work Programmers. All very different education.
I take it the other 10% should be in math?
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I think the bell curve is likely the entire problem. There simply should not be one. If kids are failing the subjects, they shouldn't be getting C and B grades because the smart people got removed to be in their own class. If the smart people excel, by all means have the ability to push them further and if that means another class, fine. But if the not so smart people are failing, the options should not be adjust the gr
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Exactly. Kind of like they are saying "most people like you (whatever that means) are well off, so what the hell is your problem?". or "in the past other groups were excluded so it doesn't matter how qualified you might be because of who your ancestors were we want to treat you differently". Hmm where have we heard that thought process before. Treat everyone the same no worst no better. No incentives should your parents be part of a particular group whether is is Nation of Islam or a country club. Only all
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Of course, since they're talking about sorting people on the basis of being CS knowledge, not skin color, what you're saying doesn't really make sense. A dirt poor white male who doesn't have a CS background gets in - whereas a hispanic girl who's been winning hackathons through highschool doesn't. Sure, there will be more white and asian males who don't get in, but it's not about race or gender.
The introductory classes end up being for actual beginners. Is that really so terrifying?
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Again, my background wasn't in CS (nor in Neurbiology, my current field, or anything even close) but in my experience this approach will get you far. There may be times when you want a laid back review - otherwise, why waste your time and money? Push yourself, take a more challenging course, and get more out of it. I got into all kinds of courses without the pre-reqs, just by speaking to the instructors ahead of time and convincing them I'd be okay. Similarly, I convinced my department to let me substitute
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I realize this might be hard to follow, but there are in fact multiple links, not a single article. And, in fact, you are conflating two different programs, one aimed at college level courses, and another aimed at high school teachers.
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I don't think they should be called native American at all. They immigrated from Asia, as did others, some from Europe, some from Africa etc. Who cares? IMO anyone actually born in a country is "native", anyone born in another country are immigrants. Regardless discriminating against people because of their race, whether or not it is to right a "wrong" or not is itself wrong to me. If a particular ethnicity has issues with their relative proportion of certain professions let them start their own programs to
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If everyone thought like you, this approach might work. While your vision is idyllic, it's completely divorced from reality. Disappointingly, most people DON'T think or act according your logic. The evidence for my argument is all around you, being rubbed in your face, every day of your life. Physically discriminatory stereotypes rule the world you live in (age, race, sex, etc.) and if you are unaware of that then you need to be a lot more introspective.
Since the premise of your argument is wrong, you may n
What Native American is supposed to mean (Score:2)
I don't think they should be called native American at all. They immigrated from Asia, as did others, some from Europe, some from Africa etc. Who cares? IMO anyone actually born in a country is "native", anyone born in another country are immigrants.
Then what's a better term for "people descended from people who were natives of North and South America in AD 1491, who had their land forcibly taken from them in European invasions from 1600 through 1900?"
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Here is a scientific way to find out: Walk up to one of them and say "Hi, my name is Tepples, what's yours?". Drop that whole collectivist bullshit.
Re:What Native American is supposed to mean (Score:5, Insightful)
Then what's a better term for "people descended from people who were natives of North and South America in AD 1491, who had their land forcibly taken from them in European invasions from 1600 through 1900?"
Humans.
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Then what's a better term for "people descended from people who were natives of North and South America in AD 1491, who had their land forcibly taken from them in European invasions from 1600 through 1900?"
First nations, like in Canada. Better conveys the distinct legal status and history.
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No, that seems to only cover those who are still part of the tribal governments. Most applicants probably won't be (for various different reasons).
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Let them eat cake! (Score:4, Insightful)
Your argument seems to be contradictory:
1) Everyone in this country is an American.
2) If any group of Americans is underrepresented, it is solely the responsibility of that group to fix the systemic problems within US society that cause that lack of representation.
It seems to me that if we are truly one nation of Americans, we as a nation have a collective responsibility to ensure that nobody gets left behind. If African Americans are struggling educationally, the attitude of, "well, I'm not going to worry about it because it is African American's responsibility to fix the situation," is akin to not worrying about a major US city hit by a natural disaster or your neighbors' house being on fire.
If we are one nation, then the onus is upon every one of us to do all we can to help undermine the barriers that keep a group of Americans, simply through accident of birth, from achieving social parity. You can help by simply volunteering your time, or as Google has done, volunteering your money if you have it (and many Google employees also volunteer their precious time as well).
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Does not follow. There's always going to be winners and losers, even if there are no racial, ethnic, or gender schisms dividing them.
Unfortunately there's a pri
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But people who follow your line of reasoning will be almost entirely those who would have acted that way anyway. So there's no loss.
Greedy xenophobes are greedy xenophobes whether you stigmatize them or not. Do I unreasonably stereotype you? Then perhaps you should consider whether you do that same thing to others.
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Game theorists?
If one group is going to define things as "us vs. them" and make the categories immutable, members of the other group have to play along or be at a disadvantage.
Hmm... let me consider that...... considered. No, you're just an ass.
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Can always tell a knee-jerker on this issue, because they've heard of the 3/5ths compromise but they don't know which side was which. Bonus points for getting the number wrong though.
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I wasn't aware that African Americans were the ones who chose, "to group themselves". I'm pretty sure that slavery wasn't created by African Americans. I'm pretty sure that 300 years of systematic discrimination using legal and extralegal means to keep African Americans from participating as equals in American societies was not created by African Americans.
The issue here is not, "reverse discrimination to make things equal." That is a straw man. What is being discussed is identifying where American soc
PC Failure? (Score:3)
In 1968, the American Indian Movement was founded. In 1977, a delegation from the International Indian Treaty Council, an arm of AIM, elected to collectively identify as "American Indian", at the United Nations Conference on Indians in the Americas at Geneva, Switzerland. Some activists and public figures of indigenous descent, such as Russell Means, say that they prefer "American Indian" to the more recently ad
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IIRC, Eskimo is traditionally a group of Canadians living around Hudson's Bay, and they prefer some other name, which I don't remember. If you want, you could call Alaskan Natives the Innuit ... but I'm not sure that covers all of them.
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Certainly seems to be the way to bet. It makes sense to separate students with some knowledge from those with none (otherwise the pace of the class will be wrong for one or the other group), but the rest of the RFP does make it look like code (ha, see I can use their terms too) for booting white and Asian males out.
The problem with the Harvey Mudd concept is, as repor
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Not "anybody showing enthusiasm" Specifically "guys" showing enthusiasm. Nobody but
Re: Google is done (Score:2)
Soon we will be getting told. We've always been at war with men.
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The amount of furor in the comment along the lines of "Oh noes, people who don't already know how to code won't be given the traditional beatdown!" is kind of horrifying. Yeesh. Having a beginning class that's for actual beginners sounds like an awesome idea. Let the folks with some background test out, or if they're not quite ready to do that, put them in something like an online course where they can fill in the gaps at their own pace.
Ideally, having some kind of acclerated intro (maybe two semesters cram