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NCsoft Sued For Making Lineage II 'Too Addictive'

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the dopamine-farming dept.

The Courts 360

An anonymous reader writes "South Korean MMO game publisher NCsoft is finding itself facing another lawsuit, this time for making games that are 'too addictive.' US Lineage II player Craig Smallwood is suing the publisher for $3 million because he found himself playing Lineage II for 20,000 hours over a period of 5 years. At times, his average play session would persist for over 11 hours, crippling his life and ability to function. A federal judge is allowing the court case to go forward (PDF), stating that the plaintiff has a claim for negligence and gross negligence against the publisher."

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360 comments

I Too Am a Victim ... (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315644)

3142 comments [slashdot.org]?
Submission Summary [slashdot.org]: 36 pending, 879 rejected, 607 accepted (1522 total, 39.88% accepted)?

Yes, surely that is why I have no life! See you in court, Slashdot!

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315658)

Much like this lawsuit, you're running into a chicken and egg problem...

Do you have no life because you post on Slashdot?

Or do you post on Slashdot because you have no life?

Ah, the great philosophical questions of our times...

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (4, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315760)

While you bring up a point, I don't think it should matter.

The immediate question is Should Smallwood get 3 Million dollars for playing a video game for 5 years?

It doesn't matter how addictive it is. I could develop Alchoholism but I can't sue Bacardi for keeping me in the hole. It's negligent? What the heck is NCsoft supposed to do? Make Lineage II LESS fun?

I can't believe a judge allowed this case to go forward. On what grounds does developing an addiction allow you to persue a lawsuit? (If thats the case, can't every single smoker in the country sue the cigarette companies for 3 million dollars for every 5 years they smoked, essentially bankrupting that industry?)

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (1)

oldspewey (1303305) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315834)

I could develop Alchoholism but I can't sue Bacardi for keeping me in the hole.

You name the claim, and I'm sure there are thousands upon thousands of asshole lawyers who are willing to take a crack at it.

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (4, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315774)

Much like this lawsuit, you're running into a chicken and egg problem...

Do you have no life because you post on Slashdot?

Or do you post on Slashdot because you have no life?

Ah, the great philosophical questions of our times...

And more importantly, how can you kill that which has no life?

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315882)

Much like this lawsuit, you're running into a chicken and egg problem...

Do you have no life because you post on Slashdot?

Or do you post on Slashdot because you have no life?

Ah, the great philosophical questions of our times...

And more importantly, how can you kill that which has no life?

Why with the sword of 1000 Truths :)

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315820)

So when does someone mention personal responsibility?

I have a solution for him... A coma. This would solve the problem of the lawsuit one, and two the child who brought about this lawsuit would still not have to incur any sort of life responsibilities.

Or his family could sue him for neglect over the past 5 years.

This is sad and pathetic, oddly not the most sad or pathetic. humans are pretty screwed aren't we?

Re:I Too Am a Victim ... (1)

altoz (653655) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315790)

3142 comments [slashdot.org]?

Submission Summary [slashdot.org]: 36 pending, 879 rejected, 607 accepted (1522 total, 39.88% accepted)?

Yes, surely that is why I have no life! See you in court, Slashdot!

I'm suing you for making your comments too entertaining!

You're Making It Worse! (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315870)

I'm suing you for making your comments too entertaining!

I'm suing you for giving my addiction positive reinforcement and feedback! I also want the logs so I can see which moderators continue to mod me up so I can add defendants to my lawsuit! By the time I'm done sobbing in front of the jury, they'll believe I never had a choice to quit!

What the hell, did you just add me to your friend's list? Oh you better believe that's a lawsuit.

Oh. My. God. Did you see my achievements [slashdot.org]?! My lawyer's head just exploded.

Re:You're Making It Worse! (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316042)

I also want the logs so I can see which moderators continue to mod me up so I can add defendants to my lawsuit!

*rubs hands together menacingly because he has mod points*

I will mod you straight to insanity!!

*submit*

Shit! I can't mod now! Un-submit! Un-submit!

Well, not if that girl next door sues you first (2, Funny)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315800)

3142 times she walked past her bedroom window, with the curtains just open enough to show her in her lace underwear.

Flirty looks at you as you passed by on your way to the 7-11 for ramen. 0% returned.

Yes, you are the reason she had to hook up with that jock. She is sueing YOU for emotional traume and unsatisfied sexual desire of her self and her close female friends because YOU spend all that time on slashdot instead.

Pay up!

"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315646)


US Lineage II player Craig Smallwood is suing the publisher for $3 million because he found himself playing Lineage II for 20,000 hours over a period of 5 years.

The whole victim-mentality that runs rampant makes my blood boil: "He had bad parenting" "She wasn't potty trained properly" "The breweries make beer taste too good" "I have a disease" blah blah blah fucking excuses blah blah blah.

Hey Craig Smallwood, take responsibility for your actions; you're not a victim. In actuality your lawsuit paints you as a blatant parasite.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Rijnzael (1294596) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315682)

I actually think most problems like that of the plaintiff here are a result of insufficient parenting. Had the parents instilled in this person good time management and prioritization, he may well not have had this problem.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315722)

At what point, then, does a person become responsible for his or her own behavior?

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (4, Interesting)

rainmouse (1784278) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315864)

The fact that these games do use very morally dubious techniques to create a feeling of addiction and endless time sinks to nurture that addiction. There are a LOT of people who's lives have been utterly ruined by MMORPG's and its easy to laugh at them, point fingers and call them weak but the fact of the matter is they are being psychologically manipulated. The problem is only going to get worse as developers better perfect these techniques and create deeper levels of immersion. I would have to agree that at some point a line has to be drawn and lawsuits like this could become more common until someone could actually win one.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33316008)

I'm sorry, what?
The only morally dubious psychological manipulation technique I've ever seen in games is called "being fun".

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33316080)

If that's a viable claim, I'm suing the porn industry for the tens of thousands of hours I've spent over the last 5 years acquiring porn, watching it and masturbating. It's ruined my life, even though I enjoy every minute of it.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33316120)

You know, you are right. I really like cheese, and those damn cheese manufacturer's are using very dubious techniques to make the cheese taste better.

That's right. You heard me. A company that makes cheese tries, every single day, to make a better product. A product that people will want to eat not just once, but many times. Can you believe their audacity?! Cheese isn't even that good for you, how can they want it to taste better! It's their duty to society to make cheese taste terrible so I won't eat it any more.

What would happen to society if every company made products that people wanted to use, or food they wanted to eat! No one could get anything done! They would be force eat cheese, make toast, play board games, drive their cars, all at once and all the time all day because they'd have no choice at all. No one has any freedom or choice at all, it's all built into their subconscious, their childhood experiences and their genetic code.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

jafiwam (310805) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316234)

You know, for actual monetary damage, Farmville, Mafia Wars, Yahoo games and similar games probably do more economic damage to worker productivity than MMOPRGs ever could.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Nkwe (604125) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316238)

the fact of the matter is they are being psychologically manipulated.

So we should also eliminate or create legal liability for all forms of psychological manipulation? Advertising and political speech come to mind, do we want to protect against that? How about your peers, your boss, your spouse / significant other, or your parents? They are consistently trying to psychologically manipulate you.

I am sorry, but the world is trying to psychologically manipulate you. This has always been the case and always will be. Deal with it. Have some personal responsibility.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

johnlcallaway (165670) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316258)

And when I write a Craig's list ad I use psychological tricks to get people to think my car is a better deal than some other car. I once sold a car for $200 more than my minimum acceptable offer, is that morally dubious also??? Before I got married, I would modify my behavior so girls wouldn't think I was a geek that enjoyed playing Counterstrike for hours so I would have a better chance of getting a date. Unless she was a geek too....then my geekiness was allowed to roam free. (My wife loves having a geek/home handyman as a husband because nothing in our house stays broken for very long.)

That is how life works -- get over it. It's only morally dubious to those that get caught up in it and want to play 'victim'. To the rest of us, it's fucking great!!!!

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316348)

Can I also sue my employer for psychologically manipulating me to spend 8 hours of my day working at a job?

Could I also sue my Internet service provider since they provide me this addictive subtance that I need to communicate and function in regular society?

Could I also sue a therapist because many people find relaxing to visit them weekly?

Could I sue the milk companies because I really always enjoy chocolate milk while playing video games?

Could I sue my friends because hanging out with them is such a positively stimulating experience that I can't stop seeing them?

Why does an MMO get this special treatment? Because it ruins lives? I think its quite the opposite. I think that they tend to reach a really broad audience - and that their addictive substance causes no physical side effects like other addictive substances like drugs or alchohol. It's just people that are prone to addictive behavior that notice they become addicted to an MMO. Perhaps better that they get it from an MMO than from a bottle of whiskey. It's a problem with the individual, psychologically manipulated or not, being of that nature where you can be easily psychologically manipulated is an issue that you yourself should have to deal with and overcome, not something a game publisher should have to factor in when they try to make their games as appealing as possible to the masses.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315970)

In my philosophy all your actions are of your own responsibility. To reiterate a line from one of my favourite movies

"A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convinient at the time". This will not suffice."

If you draw away all the religious belief from that statement, I think it can still hold true to morality and law.

Craig's parents may have influenced his upbringing, and NCsoft may have introduced him to an 'addictive' game. Regardless, his actions are his own, he is responsible for them, even if he is not mentally prepared to deal with them properly. Craig's correct course of action when discovering that HE has a problem is to FIX the problem, not exact some sort of revenge on those who SHOWED HIM that he had a problem.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316320)

To me if you do not have free will, you are something that can be destroyed with no special considerations if you do not meet the specifications.

Currently we still give the "we humans are special" treatment to brain dead or profoundly retarded humans, but if too many people keep saying it's not their fault because something else made them do it, it's going to be even harder to convince the Future Transhumans/AIs that "normal people" still deserve special treatment.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316180)

I think self responsibility is a greater trait to instil. This is the kind of person that blames everyone and thing but themselves for their own problems.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315762)

While this lawsuit might sound a little ridiculous, pretending that problems with gaming addiction don't exist isn't exactly a very intelligent way to deal with the issue either.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Peach Rings (1782482) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315908)

Gaming addiction is a real problem, but this lawsuit is preposterous. That is the issue, not gaming addiction.

Also, maybe I should check out L2.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (2, Insightful)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315932)

And suing game companies will do...what, exactly? Make less games? People are responsible for themselves. If they can't cope with game addiction, then they need help with their lack of self-control. Suing game companies is a ridiculous measure by greedy lawyers and whiny little bastards who can't accept that they're responsible for their own damned behavior.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316026)

And suing game companies will do...what, exactly?

Force them to have a psychologist on staff to deal with such addiction cases or something along the lines maybe? It doesn't even need to have a ruling, just pushing the issue into the public view a bit with the lawsuit might already help to let companies reconsider there current behavior.

If they can't cope with game addiction, then they need help with their lack of self-control.

Yeah, but instead they just get more addictive material from the game company. The thing is: The company knows that those people are addicted and it doesn't care, instead it milks them for more money. How responsible is that?

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316248)

People have sued MMOs since UO and possibly meridian 59. Everquest had lawsuits over trivial things such as in game items. So far it hasn't stopped the industry yet, they probably just have a lawyer on payroll anyway.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315966)

Exactly what chemical dependence do you acquire playing video games?

It sounds like we have a depressed individual that was using the game as medication, medication that no longer hides the depression. He was playing the game to escape, he chose that escape, to turn around and sue NCSoft for his own mental problems should be ridiculous, the fact that a Federal Judge thought this should actually stand is the real sickening news here.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315980)

Blaming the object of abuse is a common tactic addicts use to deflect blame from themselves. Even with highly addictive drugs like nicotine and heroin people can and do will themselves to quit. If you are addicted to something the responsibility lies on your shoulders, no one else's.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316162)

Exactly. No one is saying it's necessarily easy, but the responsibility is yours to put the work in... not society's to take the object of your addiction away.

"Wah, I Don't Want Choice or Responsibility! Wah!" (3, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315792)

Yeah, not a whole lot of sympathy from me either on this one. In fact, I'm a little upset this hasn't been thrown out:

A federal judge is allowing the court case to go forward (PDF), stating that the plaintiff has a claim for negligence and gross negligence against the publisher.

So what the judge is saying is that if online gaming services don't regulate against lengthy usage of their services by adult citizens they may face lawsuits like this? Hopefully this sets a precedent that such a claim is a load of horse shit and should never be considered in a court of law again. Where does The "Science" of Game Addiction [slashdot.org] draw the line?

In America, you're suppose to have the freedom to do whatever you want with your time so long as it doesn't impair another person's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. This includes, for better or for worse, devoting as much time as you see fit to a game. It's called "responsibility" and I'd rather you accept it before the decision is made for you and you never had a choice to begin with (a la China's government regulations for online game play time [bbc.co.uk]).

Re:"Wah, I Don't Want Choice or Responsibility! Wa (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315930)

So what the judge is saying is that if online gaming services don't regulate against lengthy usage of their services by adult citizens they may face lawsuits like this?

Where did anybody say something about regulation? What about just having a moderator/psychologist on stuff that has a little chat with those people that hang around for thousands of hours?

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315808)

To think, I could have been making $150 / hour playing video games!

Who 'da thunk it?

Blame the socialist drug war (2, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315856)

With our country's "War" on drugs, we have a society which perpetuates the idea that addiction is the fault of the dealer. The drug war is socialism for cops and addicts, it takes money from the general population and uses it to "help" a small class of people who are prone to addiction or can't find employment except as a state thug. If drug addicts can get this socialist "help,"why not other addicts? If drug dealers are to blame for addiction, why not video game publishers?

Re:Blame the socialist drug war (1)

hazah (807503) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316250)

And what drug are you on, exactly?? The drug war does NOT help the addict what so ever. The drug war helps maintain the government as the top dealer of all drugs.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315858)

I want to disagree on some level, but I really can't.

I think the only thing that I would add is that addiction is painful (mental pain is no different from physical), even if it is the result of patterns of learned behavior. Those patterns are hard to change, and it takes a lot of work. Its not something most people can do without really wanting to do it.

I have trouble blaming him for seeing himself as some sort of victim and looking for whatever remedy to the spiraling situation that he can. Its a little like being mad at a cornered cat for scratching you. However, your remedy is spot on, he has to stop blaming the object of his addiction and take control of his life.

The reality is, many things are addicting. I have seen a friend who kicked various drugs, only to throw himself into cult level religious activities and get a big tattoo of Jesus over his heart. I don't see many lawsuits against churches for making their religion too addictive getting very far.

I guess I would say I view addiction as more a matter of tripping and falling. Its easy to make a mistake and fall on the ground. You may be strong enough to get up on your own, or so weak you need a helping hand. However, sitting on the ground and ranting about how you got there doesn't help anybody.

-Steve

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315894)

This judge should be removed from his position for letting this laughable shit actually get into the courts. It's called SELF-CONTROL. If you can't exercise some, then you get what you deserve. We're not talking about a physically addictive substance. We're talking about a VIDEO GAME. Yes, whiny idiots and greedy lawyers are part of the problem, but maybe we need to start booting judges for allowing unbelievable crap like this into the system in the first place.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315974)

maybe we need to start booting judges for allowing unbelievable crap like this into the system in the first place.

And of course you've read the judge's order?

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316184)

A big problem with this country is that you can find a Federal judge somewhere that will make and/or support any ruling or decision imaginable. The trick is finding the right one for your case.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (1)

Reservoir Penguin (611789) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316202)

It seems like in America you can sue for coffee being too hot, ice-cream being too cold, water being too wet. Now this??? I'm surprised there are still people doing business over there, the legal costs to operate a business in America must be enormous.

Re:"Wahh, I'm a victim! Waahhh!" (4, Insightful)

dhermann (648219) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316222)

I get it; you're hard and edgy, and by disagreeing with you, that makes me an emo pansy, but just to put up a decent counterargument...

What would you say if, during the discovery phase of Craig's claim, e-mails and documents subpoenaed reveal that NCSoft actively created their games with the intent not to entertain, but to entice and entangle? What if they commissioned a psychological research study on how to make their games more addictive, and made major alterations to the gameplay based on the results? What if they made it a primary goal to target certain segments of the population, what you would call the weak-willed and easily manipulated, what others might call aged 18-25 unmarried males?

What if their next game specifically targeted children, aged 9-15? Is it a parental responsibility to identify each game's level of addictiveness before purchasing it for their child? Isn't there no way to tell until the child has become addicted, and now both parent and child are forced to endure a period of withdrawal?

I think that this lawsuit is probably frivolous, but I can definitely see a situation where it is not. You certainly can't make the blanket assumption that this guy's claim is worthless before it plays out.

The guy played for 20,000 hours? (1)

haddieman (1033476) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315684)

That game's gotta be good!

Re:The guy played for 20,000 hours? (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316170)

Yeah, he could have worked two full-time jobs in the time he played.

With his obvious natural talent, that would mean he could have been raking in at least $500 a week instead of paying $4 a week to play that game.

There is no doubt the game cost him $140,000 dollars, minimum.

Why's he suing for $3 million again?

Re:The guy played for 20,000 hours? (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316224)

Meh, that is only a little less than 2.3 years of game time. I have friends with over 5 years of in game time on FFXI.

No personal responsibility. (3, Insightful)

scribblej (195445) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315694)

I firmly believe that Craig Smallwood is an appropriately named man with no sense of personal responsibility.

That said, it will be interesting to see how this court case plays out considering there is NO QUESTION that the developers of these games intentionally try to make them as 'addictive' as possible. There are many studies in the industry meant to determine the appropriate level of payout (loot, level gains, etc) required to keep someone interested all the time.

Re:No personal responsibility. (3, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316092)

It should get laughed out of court, there should be no question about that at all.

In every article, summary, post, comment, reply, you can easily interchange 'addictive' with 'entertaining'.

Now try it, and see how ridiculous it sounds. NCsoft Sued for Making Lineage II 'Too Entertaining'.

Ya but there's a problem (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316288)

What you want to call "addictive" I call "fun." Games need to be fun, that's the reason I buy them. I wish to be entertained, I wish to enjoy my experience. Part of that can be a feeling of accomplishment via payouts in the game. This should be optimized to be the most fun, the most rewarding. If the game is deliberately made to discourage me from playing well, then, I won't. I'll go find another game.

Now will some people get addicted to that? Sure. However that shows that they have a problem, not the game. Some people can get addicted to ANYTHING. They need help, they need treatment. We do not need to eliminate anything fun because they might get addicted to it.

You're going down Atari & Namco! (2, Insightful)

countSudoku() (1047544) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315708)

I'm putting Atari on notice for Asteroids Deluxe and Namco for Xevious! I've wasted far too many hours of my younger days on those two games and I want my quarters back! Waaaaah!!1!

Plus, we should blow up the moon. Thank you.

Default Judgment Payout (4, Funny)

ThinkWeak (958195) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315728)

If he somehow wins this case, NCSoft should payout with the equivalent of $3,000,000 in in-game currency.

Re:Default Judgment Payout (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316198)

Actually, I think that would cure his addiction.

With that much cash (billions in in-game currency) there would be nothing he couldn't buy, and the game would start to suck.

Maybe.

However if he really has no life and just fills it with Lineage (instead of filling his life with Lineage, causing him to have no life), it won't work.

No way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315734)

I've played lineage II. It's not that good.

Now for pure addiction... Something like grand theft auto series or even WoW might fit better.

But lineage? no way.

Virtual ambulance chasing? (1)

Kitten Killer (766858) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315738)

What kind of lawyer takes on a case like this?

Re:Virtual ambulance chasing? (4, Insightful)

SirGeek (120712) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315824)

What kind of lawyer takes on a case like this?

One who gets paid regardless of the outcome ?

Re:Virtual ambulance chasing? (1)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315910)

This case needs 'loser pays' rule. Paid by the loser and his lawyers.

Re:Virtual ambulance chasing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33316034)

This case needs 'loser pays' rule. Paid by the loser and his lawyers.

All cases need a 'loser pays' rule.

Re:Virtual ambulance chasing? (1)

Loadmaster (720754) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316246)

That would be terrible. What happens when you sue a company for not upholding their warranty? You bring your nice attorney to meet their fleet of attorneys all making $1,000/hr. Still sure your reading of the warranty is correct? Are you absolutely certain that what happened is not specifically excluded? Are you absolutely sure you are going to win?

You better be.

I'm suing my employer (5, Insightful)

Daddy-Oh (306170) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315746)

I waste 2,000-3,000 hours *a year* working for my employer. I can't stop myself. I feel that, if I stop, my ability to function in society will end. I must be addicted to work.

Anyone have the number for a good lawyer? (hmm, is that an oxymoron?)

Re:I'm suing my employer (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316186)

Anyone have the number for a good lawyer? (hmm, is that an oxymoron?)

Not if you mean proficient. Or NYCL...

Re:I'm suing my employer (2, Funny)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316226)

Worse, your employer obviously feeds your addiction far more than a video game company ever could.

I mean, they pay you by the hour for something as precious as your soul.

If Smallwood gets millions, I think you could get billions man.

Somebody called the whaaambulance? (1)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315796)

NC Soft needs only to drastically increase the chance and amount of player gear to be dropped on the ground upon player death so that PvP gankers have a much higher chance of stealing other people's hard earned gear. I guarantee that within a month, player base will dwindle to a few hardcore PvPers cannibalizing each other while everyone else moves on to other MMORPGs. The problem of addicted Lineage players will be gone forever.

Any who has been on hold forever needs to sue as (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315802)

Any who has been on hold forever needs to sue as well.

start with comcast and don't forget to add time waiting for the tech to come as well.

I'm curious (1)

edremy (36408) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315812)

would this same judge let a case against a board game manufacturer go forward? I'm reading Work Freak [amazon.com] right now about competitive Scrabble players, and it's a truly sad book in a lot of ways. The folks who make up the upper echelons of competitive Scrabble are basically completely dysfunctional and completely addicted in every way- most have quit their jobs in order to compete and many are about one step from homelessness, assuming they aren't still living with their parents in their 40s.

Can we hit up other vices as well? Booze and tobacco are obvious, but I can find pathologically addicted people for virtually any hobby.

Precedent? (1)

VoiceInTheDesert (1613565) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315836)

I mean, tobacco is ACTUALLY addictive and no one is suing them. Tons of other hobbies and activities are addictive, either mentally (sudoku) or chemically (jogging) and no one is suing puzzle designers or Nike. People don't like to take responsibility for their actions any more. We're all victims of someone else's evil. It's never actually our fault.

Re:Precedent? (1)

Yakasha (42321) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315916)

I mean, tobacco is ACTUALLY addictive and no one is suing them.

What have you been smoking and can I have some?

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315846)

"The United States Government is finding itself facing another lawsuit, this time for having congressional meetings that are 'too addictive.' US C-Span watcher Annie Kaward is suing the government for $3 million because she found herself watching C-Span for 20,000 hours over a period of 5 years. At times, her average watch session would persist for over 11 hours, crippling her life and ability to function. A federal judge is allowing the court case to go forward, stating that the plaintiff has a claim for negligence and gross negligence against the government."

You know what my first thought was? (2, Insightful)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315850)

My first thought was "Hmm, I haven't played lineage, apparently I should."

Precisely (1)

SpeedyGonz (771424) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316140)

Call me a cynic, but doesn't this reek of fabrication? Like NCSoft concocting this for use as a marketing ploy?

Re:You know what my first thought was? (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316264)

Nah, it doesn't mean anything.

I heard of a guy who played that stupid Pirate MMORPG for 22 hours a day, and most people agree that game sucked. That's twice the hours Smallwood put in.

Ask Slashdot: How do you remove a judge? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33315860)

Recently I read a story [wired.com] that featured an idiot judge. The judge actually allowed a lawsuit go through that claimed negligence for making a product too good. So my question is, how does a normal citizen go about getting a federal judge permanently removed from the bench?

Re:Ask Slashdot: How do you remove a judge? (1)

Loadmaster (720754) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316050)

Well, you change the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure so the pleading requirement is higher instead of blaming a judge for following the law.

FRCP rule 8

(a) Claims for Relief.

A pleading that states a claim for relief must contain:

(1) a short and plain statement of the grounds for the court’s jurisdiction, unless the court already has jurisdiction and the claim needs no new jurisdictional support;

(2) a short and plain statement of the claim showing that the pleader is entitled to relief; and

(3) a demand for the relief sought, which may include relief in the alternative or different types of relief.

2 does not mean you have to prove your case, it simply means that, if correct, you are entitled to relief. A judge usually cannot throw out a case simply for sounding stupid unless it sounds stupid because it makes nothing but legal conclusions and no claims (Gillespie v. Goodyear).

Re:Ask Slashdot: How do you remove a judge? (1)

tophermeyer (1573841) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316126)

how does a normal citizen go about getting a federal judge permanently removed from the bench?

You don't. That is intentional.

There is a process in which the House of Representatives can impeach a Federal Judge, but an individual normal citizen is unlikely to force the House to a vote without some support. The Judicial system exists in this way so that powerful individuals cannot simply go and get a Judge fired if they feel wronged.

Selection and approval is a very detailed process, the possibility of a true buffoon making their way through is unlikely. Impeachment is a very serious process as well, it is not undertaken lightly.

Nice work ethic (1)

ArbitraryDescriptor (1257752) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315918)

20,000 hours over 5 years is 80 hours a week. Impressive. If we assume time and a half for overtime, that's 3 million for 25000 hours, or $120 an hour or ~$250,000 a year as a base salary. I don't know if that would be close to enough to make me put in hours like that, for 5 years straight.

ok (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315926)

Read through the court's order. I don't really see any serious flaws; personally I wouldn't have found that his claim for gross negligence should have survived a motion to dismiss, but it's an arguable point. He actually does make a claim for defamation, though I can't see the damages being that high.

Yeah, this is way worse than alcoholism. (1)

SocialEngineer (673690) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315934)

Seriously? Ok, lets break this down.

Said person is addicted to game. Why is he addicted? Presumably, because the game is fun (well, to him; I personally found it just "ok"). So, because the game possesses such a great deal of entertainment, he spends most of his waking hours with it.

Sounds like there's a bit of a disconnect. The idiot isn't addicted to the game, he's addicted to the departure from reality and responsibility... AKA, he's a child.

Ok, that's a bit harsh. There is such a thing as internet addiction, supposedly, and I'm sure it can extend to video game addiction, however, I would say that the problem is less so the game and more so the reason behind pursuing it: not finding regular life enjoyable enough to actually go through the motions.

My next question is this.. How in the hell could he AFFORD to play it that much? I mean, you've also got to be able to afford Cheetos and Code Red to fuel those... 11 ####ING HOUR GAMING SESSIONS? Jesus.

This guy has more problems than your average /.er.

"At Times" (1)

vitaflo (20507) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315954)

"At times, his average play session would persist for over 11 hours, crippling his life and ability to function."

Actually it's not "at times" it was all the time. 11 hours every single day for 5 years = 20,000 hours.

Re:"At Times" (2, Insightful)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316356)

Also note that "At times" and "his average play session" are contradictory. It's either "at times his play session would persist over 11 hours" or it's "his average play session would persist over 11 hours" and the "at times" bit would be some number higher than 11 hours (probably 20 hours on occasion).

Since we can do basic math, we know it's the average play session that was 11 hours. :)

He was banned in 2009. (5, Informative)

Blackwulf (34848) | more than 3 years ago | (#33315962)

I skimmed NCSoft's defense pdf (linked in the Wired article) and it winds up that the guy in question was involved in real-money transfers and had all of his accounts banned from Lineage II in 2009.

Could that possibly be the REAL reason he's suing?

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry... (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316000)

... at how some people think that they can not take responsibility for their own choices.

So can I sue my work? (1)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316070)

[sarcasm]I spent about 20,000 hours there over the last 5 years, and it is cripeling my social life.[/sarcasm]

Dude, if you want to stop playing the game, just start playing something else, like WoW, or Eve, or this thing called life....

Re:So can I sue my work? (1)

box4831 (1126771) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316362)

Dude, if you want to stop playing the game, just start playing something else, like WoW, or Eve, or this thing called life....

Itried life but the spinner kept falling off and I always lose the little people pegs and the plastic cars

Corrected Headline (1)

Caerdwyn (829058) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316108)

The headline should read "NCSoft Sued For Having Money And Coming To The Attention Of A Liability Lawyer".

The "plaintiff" has already demonstrated a complete disregard for concepts of personal responsibility or a work ethic. This is the exact personality-type which engages in lawsuits like this, hoping to never have to work again (as if they'd ever worked before). And of course there are always lawyers with an equally-commendable outlook on life willing to collect 40% of an ill-gotten settlement.

If there was ever an archetype of why we need tort reform, this is it.

I just did some napkin maths (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33316122)

To break down how much money he's suing for, not taking legal fees or tax into account:
3M$ for five years of playing 11 hours per day, 45% of his time.
600K$/year he's played lineage.
At 11 hours a day, every day, that's 150$ per hour.
If he "worked" for eight hours a day, five days a week, he'd be on about 288K$/year
A lineage 60 day gamecard is 30$. He got 660 hours out of that, effectively 4.5 cents per hour. He wants 150 dollars per hour, an increase of 3333 (point 33, repeating of course) times his expenditure.

Now just imagine if alcoholics or smokers tried to sue for that sort of increase. They'd be making the world rich list.

hey craig tinypenis (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316124)

anything enjoyable is addictive

so the only way to comply with your complaint in order to protect from all future such lawsuits would be to destroy the potential for anything to be enjoyable that might be sold

what an awesome world that would be

in short, i hope that your wood is not so small that you still can't choke on it, you asshole

I'm going to sue my crack dealer (1)

Scummer (686208) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316158)

because the stuff he sold me has destroyed my life and I can't think of anything else but how to get the next hit.

amounts to $150 per hour (1)

dsmoses (653429) | more than 3 years ago | (#33316204)

Not bad pay for that kind of work. Now to start filing my claims against every manufacturer of every game I've played.

So will be for being too addictive, some for being a waste of time.

I think we found that perpetually missing "..." step before "n. Profit!"

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