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Throwing Out Software That Works

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the there's-an-app-for-that dept.

Programming 622

theodp writes "Just as the iPhone rendered circa-2007 smartphones obsolete, points out Marco Arment, the iPad is on the verge of doing the same to circa-2010 netbooks. Should this succeed, cautions Dave Winer, we may be entering an era of deliberate degradation of the user experience and throwing overboard of software that works, for corporate reasons. Already, Winer finds himself having to go to a desktop machine if he wants to view web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad. 'There was no bottleneck for software in the pre-iPad netbooks,' he writes. 'It matters. What I want is the convenient form factor without the corporate filter. It's way too simplistic to believe that we'll get that, but we had it. That's what I don't like — deliberate devolution.'"

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622 comments

Wait for Google then... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325332)

...with the Adroid tablet, the tablet for geeks!

Re:Wait for Google then... (3, Informative)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325778)

...with the Adroid tablet, the tablet for geeks!

They already exist. A friend showed me one a couple of weeks ago (I'm sorry, I can't remember the brand, as it was far from prominent on the box) that had been brought back from Singapore.

I liked the fact that it is possible to use the thing as a *nix terminal, with the usual shell commands. Also, I liked the fact that its network interface is via WiFi rather than a paid mobile connection plan. I expect Mr. Jobs might disagree with my priorities, but what the hell.

On the downside, the finish was a bit tacky (but hey, no obvious brand...) and an excessive amount of the screen-space was occupied by a black border. But I fully expect someone will come up with a slicker offering before long.

Re:Wait for Google then... (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325918)

iPads with a data plan came out after the wifi only ones.

Yeah nothing works anymore (5, Insightful)

Jarkov (1867240) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325338)

Yeah my 2006 Blackberry is really obselete now. Going online, checking my mail, instant messaging, and god forbid calling people has never been a worse experience. But I guess I don't have a fart button app, time to throw it out.

Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (4, Insightful)

object404 (1883774) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325488)

The article Why I won't buy an iPad (and think you shouldn't, either) [boingboing.net] by Cory Doctorow is a good read.

Steve Jobs is deliberately destroying the web and trying to remold it as he sees fit. He would rather that content creators only build native iOS apps that work only for iDevices rather than use already-existing channels & platforms that work perfectly fine.

His war on interpreted code/runtimes and (WORA) Write-Once-Run-Anywhere is a big headache for content creators everywhere.

Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (5, Insightful)

drolli (522659) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325612)

Same is true for my 2006 Nokia E61. Impossible how i could stand having the choice between several web browsers. Totally irresponsible how Nokia does not enforce the use of the preinstalled (not so good) e-mail client but allows me to install unsigned (or signed) alternatives. Totally irresponsible that there are several instant messaging clients. This hampers with my user experience. i have to make choices what works best for me. Thinking hurts.

Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (3, Funny)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325734)

Really? The iPhone has a fart button app?! Let me check iTunes. BRB...

Gee, I dunno. That's kinda important to have (looks at my BB Curve). Oh at look, it's already at version 2.0. Great progress must be being made here. And the best part, it's free.

Ya, I'm going to get a new phone. This is a game changer for sure.

Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (0, Troll)

jewishbaconzombies (1861376) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325826)

uh yes you do actually - several in fact:

http://www.berryreview.com/2009/02/04/phoneyfart-the-inevitable-farting-app-for-blackberry/ [berryreview.com]
http://crackberry.com/best-blackberry-fart-app-yet-ibee-farting [crackberry.com]
http://www.mobihand.com/150//product.asp?id=24413 [mobihand.com]
http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/3699 [blackberry.com]
http://forums.crackberry.com/f35/free-fart-app-joy-154538/ [crackberry.com]


and there's plenty more.

Got anymore bullshit or is your talking points script all tuckered out?

Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess ... (-1, Flamebait)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325356)

The author admits it - the iPad is overpriced crap. If it were $200, sure, for a crippleware device, but not for a premium. Why can't he just come out and admit it - the iPad will be rendered totally obsolete by all the new pads coming out within the next year, just like many of the new smartphones are better than apple's latest iphone?

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325440)

Yeah, you keep fapping over your dreams of a Windows 7 tablet. I'm sure it won't turn out ANYTHING like the disastrously shitty XP tablets, or the Vista tablets, etc...

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (2, Informative)

Unka Willbur (1771596) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325552)

I have one, and it works fine. Great actually, as I just wrote this reply (by hand, not keyboard) in Windows 7, from a moving car. Get with the program! [asus.com]

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325648)

I have an XP tablet... that works wonderful. Office, internet, couple games.

Sure... it might not play Crysis, but that's not what the tablet is made for.

Also, Android, Chrome or Linux variations will be coming out... Palm too.

Stop focusing so much hate on one player. Especially one that is more than capable.

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325460)

The iPad is definitely junk, but people are stupid.

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (0, Redundant)

GigaHurtsMyRobot (1143329) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325910)

There isn't one competing device on the market that delivers the user experience that an iPad brings to the table. You must not have used one.

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (5, Insightful)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325560)

The iPad isn't crap. I'm by no means a fan of Apple, but the iPad is a very slick (if somewhat expensive) piece of hardware. Apps like Google Maps and some of the available games are very polished and work amazingly well. The problem isn't the iPad -- it's the Apple philosophy of our-way-or-no-way-at-all. Same for the iPhone; it looks like a very well-engineered piece of hardware (Grip-Of-Death issues notwithstanding), but it's horribly crippled by being tied to iTunes (which is, in my mind, has one of the worst user interfaces ever foisted on consumers -- made worse by the fact that it's rammed down our throats to use any Apple hardware.) I admire Apple's engineering, but their marketing policies have ensured that I would rather pay for a more open product (Samsung's Galaxy S series, for instance) than accept an Apple product for free.

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325762)

I would rather pay for a more open product (Samsung's Galaxy S series, for instance)

So would I, for many of the same reasons you mentioned. But what is to iPod touch as Galaxy S and other Android 2 phones are to iPhone?

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325728)

While new smartphones may be better than the iPhone, I note that the iPhone still sells more and has more deployed than any other smartphone. There is more to technology battles than just having the best tech - there is also marketing, and business skill. Apple has decent technology, but not the best. It does have the connections, the close relationship with AT&T, the extremally loyal fanbase, the marketing machine and cross-promotional ability that it takes to translate technology into market share. Without all that, even the most perfect of phones sits on a shelf unsold.

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325766)

except it wont.. that's the issue.

Nobody complained when Xbox 360 junked nearly every original Xbox game for most of it's first year. Nobody is complaining new PS3s have completely dropped PS2 compatibility they originally had. Jobs understands that being able to have small developers redevelop apps every 5-7 years is much better than keeping old apps around for no good reason.

I say this, and I work on Midrange systems with non-edited code going back to 1992 and 1985... still in use unaltered! The problem is that every 7 years or so business changes so much that you really need new people working on new ways of business, this is where open data and documentation is more important than code compatibility. It is the same reason companies build NEW factories for less money than trying to update 30 year-old companies while they're trying to use them.

The iPad will succeed (1)

copponex (13876) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325770)

The iPad will do well for the same reason that $3 bottles of water and TAG watches do well. People buy status, not functionality, and Apple products are also reasonably functional.

They figured that if you artificially raise the price of a product, it's price is also an indicator of value to customers. Apple customers want to overpay, because that's part of the brand experience. Since all of the other electronics manufacturers are competing on price, performance, and features, Apple "wins" by not offering any of those three, but making sure that the few features they do offer work well and consistently.

As far as raw sales go, Android tablets are going to eclipse iPad tablets without a doubt. But even when the Android tablets are offering front and rear facing cameras, compasses, USB3, HDMI, DisplayPort, printing, etc etc, it won't matter to Apple users, because they are the wrong brand. Their $500 tablet must match the trim on their $3500 tower desktop which must match the trim on their $700 phone which must match the trim on their $2300 laptop. It's a lifestyle brand for well-to-do yuppies.

Is OS X better than Windows XP and Vista? Hands down, yes. Is it better than Windows 7? Probably. But being better than windows isn't some heroic feat. And sorry to say, OS X Server is an abomination compared to any Microsoft enterprise products. Apple knows not to venture into real enterprise territory, because companies have budgets and people who know how to manage computers.

Anyway, I'm glad Apple is in the market. Sooner or later the Chinese will figure out that putting an extra $50 in the case will be worth the money, and we'll stop getting ugly plastic chassis. Apple has also proven that a non-windows OS can create a market for itself in the 21st Century. And let's be honest, their hardware is amazingly refined. Their software platform is reasonably open. (I used to be a hardliner against this point, but it's true.) I don't think they will do very well in the future, if only because they collect a lot of money from software sales. They have a huge incentive to invest in DRM. If iOS heads to the desktop, they're finished. I don't think Steve is that stupid, but his shareholders might be.

Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (0, Troll)

jedrek (79264) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325894)

I'm interested by what metric 'many of the new smartphones are better'.

I bought an HTC Android phone that was released under 12 months ago. Compared to the 3 year old iPhone 3G I got after it, it's slower, the software is buggier, most Android apps don't run on it and I can't upgrade it past Android 1.6 - even though there is an update, but the update is carrier-locked.

So yeah, I'm curious.

OH... MY... GOD... (1)

Petersko (564140) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325904)

"Why can't he just come out and admit it - the iPad will be rendered totally obsolete by all the new pads coming out within the next year, just like many of the new smartphones are better than apple's latest iphone?"

You mean... no - I can't even say it... but I must! You mean that several years after the release of a successful electronics product competing devices will emerge that will trump it in terms of features and power?

The implications are staggering. Why produce a successful product in the first place?

I predict this groundbreaking dioscovery will mean the end of innovation as we know it.

I weep for my techy future.

standards (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325382)

That's what standards are for!

If a device does not adhere to common standards, then don't buy it!

iPad? Seriously? (1, Interesting)

geek (5680) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325390)

It's junk. I'm sorry to say it, I had high hopes but the thing is an overpriced etch-a-sketch. My netbook does everything the iPad does but 100 times better and at less than half the cost, plus it include a keyboard and much larger hard drive and all the inputs and outputs I require.

All this hype over the iPad is mind boggling. I just don't get it.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325524)

Your netbook has a touchscreen? If so, mention it by name as I'd be interested. If not, you're another /.er who just doesn't get it.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325580)

OK, *I'll* name one: Lenovo S10-3t.

Did you seriously believe such a thing did not exist?

Re:iPad? Seriously? (2, Informative)

object404 (1883774) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325606)

There are already a bunch of touchscreen netbooks out there. Check out the: ASUS T101MT, HP Mini 5102, Gigabyte Touchnote T1028M, and MSI Wind U150 nebooks.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325674)

He said it does everything the iPad does, not that it does it in exactly the same way.

Touchscreens are cool and all, but they don't magically enable the device to do things you can't actually do just as well with a keyboard and touchpad.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325696)

Its not scout the bright and shiny but actually getting stuff done. The fancy io method in isolation is not enough to make the device worthwhile. Of course consumers love bright and shiny. Hopefully apples effort to turn the web into cable tv won't ruin it for the rest of us.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325906)

Your netbook has a touchscreen?

Let's just turn that question around: Why does your screen have so many yucky fingerprints all over it?

Re:iPad? Seriously? (4, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325614)

All this hype over the iPad is mind boggling. I just don't get it.

You don't get it because you aren't the target demographic. The socially challenged male in his basement with 12 computers (all of which have been stripped to the bare plastic at least twice) and his Gentoo compiling microwave oven doesn't need an iPad.

My 80 year old mother and apparently everyone else in her Assisted Living place are in the iPad demographic and they are falling all over themselves (actually not very hard to do at 80) trying to buy one.

Get over it, dude. Go take something apart.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (1)

MrJones (4691) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325618)

iPad is between phone and computer. If you call a netbook your computer, then so be it. Then, the iPad will fit between your netbook and your phone.

Not Junk... Really (2, Interesting)

acomj (20611) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325788)

I got one and its pretty darn good. Many reviewers agree with me. I use macs quite a bit but don't have an iphone. Its great, but far from improvement. Its has totally replaced my notebook for surfing, and checking emails at home. I take it with me and use it like a giant iphone for location based stuff (I'm a city dweller). The only thing against is that its not feasable to pull out and use while walking, but I guess thats what smart phones are for.

The ipad is really more of a consumer electronic device than a computer. Once you get over that mental hurdle its fine. Its a 1.0 product as well so some of the limits on its functionality should hopefully go away with competetion (thank goodness for it). Its not a netbook and shouldn't really be compared to one.

Everything not working everywhere is a small price to pay for breaking the MS monopoly on OSs.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (5, Funny)

Kohath (38547) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325860)

TV? It's junk. I'm sorry to say it. I had high hopes, but the thing is just an overpriced miniature theatre.

In my village, we watch the puppet shows. They have all the entertainment we need. The music is better that the noise on the TV. We listen to the elders for their wisdom. And we hear about outside events from travelers. All together, it costs less than half what a TV costs.

All this hype over these electronic devices mind boggling. I just don't get it.

Re:iPad? Seriously? (5, Insightful)

Phat_Tony (661117) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325874)

Have you tried sitting around on the couch browsing the web, watching video, and looking through your pictures on an iPad and on your netbook? Because the iPad is just way better at those things.

I was in the market for a netbook, but I waited until the iPad came out to see what it was. You know what? It's really cool, but it doesn't meet my primary needs as well as a netbook. I often need to do things like commander whatever large monitor is available at someone else's house or workplace, plug it into my netbook, and edit a large spreadsheet. I also do a lot of typing, some with the machine on my lap, and the iPad just gets killed by netbooks. So I went with a Hackintosh Dell Mini 10v. For my needs, it kills the iPad. But I also recognize that my needs aren't everybody's needs, and I've played with the iPad, and for some things, it's a way better experience. Yes, netbooks can do nearly everything iPads do, plus much more, but iPads do certain things better. If those are the only thing you do...

So if you don't "get it," seriously, have you ever tried doing the thing the iPad's good at on an iPad? Because I don't see how you could try it and not enjoy it, it's really smooth. I mean, the iPhoto experience on the iPad just kills my netbook.

The "article" is an absurd troll. The popularity of the iPad is not going to destroy the netbook category. Macs and iPhones are both selling really well too, but no one's complaining that they're about to destroy all other phones or computers. iPads for some, netbooks for others. Get what you want, nothing to see here.

Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325394)

Anyone who has read Macro Arment knows that he is an intelligent blogger for some unknown reason needs to be an Apple fanboy beyond the edge of reason. The more you listen to Apple guys, the more they're try to convince you that your computer isn't good enough - ditch it, use something BETTER, something NEW. This is what Apple (and the rest of the tech industry) does. they beat you overt the head with the notion that YOU'RE NOT USING A GOOD ENOUGH PLATFORM until you succumb, upgrade, and get all of those fancy gadgets.
 
As someone running Debian on an old Pentium (by choice, not limited by funds) I know that the rise and fall of technology never creates anything really earth shattering, and yesterday's tech will work just as well as tomorrow's.

Re:Well (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325858)

Except large parts of Debian are thrown out and rewritten all the time, and often not compatible with the old stuff. In fact the success of Linux distros is proof enough that rewriting from scratch when needed is more important than "executable" compatibility.

Huh? (5, Insightful)

rrohbeck (944847) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325396)

The iPad causes all netbooks to disappear all of a sudden?
It's your own damn problem if you bought an iPad. Should have bought a netbook.
Writing this on my EeePC. I like a real keyboard.

Re:Huh? (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325472)

You have meaningful OS choice on a netbook. Some of us, self included, DEMAND that.

Those who failed to consider the implications of buying very limited devices can always buy another, different device.

Phones and pads are intended to be throwaways, so throw them away when you are done. What some purchasers want of them is not what they are for.

PDAs (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325588)

Those who failed to consider the implications of buying very limited devices can always buy another, different device.

Until "another, different device" stops getting manufactured. Case in point: PDAs. Ideally, people like me who don't need Internet in a vehicle and don't need anywhere near the 450 voice minutes a month of the cheapest U.S. smartphone service plans would choose a PDA over a smartphone to save money. But now it seems the only major PDA that isn't a smartphone is iPod touch. Everything else, such as nearly every Android 2 device, is marketed as a cell phone and costs two to three times as much as an iPod touch. For example, a Samsung Galaxy S costs 600 USD, compared to 200 USD for an iPod touch.

Re:PDAs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325736)

That's a dam good question... why isn't there a non-phone Android, palm or WinMO device?

Re:Huh? (2, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325610)

That was my question: I was at Best Buy a few days ago, they had plenty of netbooks.

I'm baffled by the high sales of the iPad, but I suspect in time the device's popularity will go through the floor. I've yet to meet anyone with one, and I'm not seeing any evidence the majority people who have them are particularly glad they got one. Netbooks on the other hand... virtually everyone I know with one loves it. They actually fill the niche - a portable device capable of showing websites, running apps, etc, that are simply unmanageable on a Smartapprunnercrapphone.

And so I find the logic of the story here a little unfathomable. Netbooks work, work well, and the fact Steve Jobs doesn't want one will not make them disappear. As long as people love them, they'll continue to be made, developed, and be popular. Is there any evidence that Netbook sales have started to fall since the iPad?

Re:Huh? (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325820)

I've yet to meet anyone with one

Go figure. At work, an office of around 15 people, I know *three* people who own one. One is a hardcode Mac fanboi. The other is an older guy who just likes the thing. And the third is a technophile who loves toys and finds the iPad interesting.

So, voila, my three useless anecdotes trump yours. I win! Woo!

They actually fill the niche - a portable device capable of showing websites, running apps

Yeah! I mean, why didn't Apple build an iPad that could, like, show websites and run apps, for god sakes! What were they thinking??

And so I find the logic of the story here a little unfathomable.

But on this, I couldn't agree more. If the netbook fills a need that the iPad doesn't, the market will do fine. If the netbook market fails, and the iPad is responsible, all that tells me is that the nerds around here have no actual clue a) who buys netbooks, and b) what they want them for.

Re:Huh? (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325830)

Well, my anecdotal experiences are different. I know a half dozen folks who have netbooks. Every one of them hates them. They bought them for the wrong reasons, mostly - price. They hate the tiny keyboard and weirdo screen. The couple of people I know that have iPads just love them. They all want (or at least are satisfied with) a small subset of the available computing experience.

I bought my mother one - and of course had to check it out for a couple of weeks to make sure it worked OK - I won't buy one for me.

Way to limiting. Way to annoying. Besides I already have an iPhone and my vision isn't all that bad. But you have to admit, Apple has sat down and done some homework. They've identified an unserved market, spent the time and money to develop a product to serve that market. Sprinkled magic pixie dust all over the place and poof. Money in the bank.

Not a bad way to run a company. So long as they keep updating OS X and Mac Pros, I'm happy. Now, there is little to prevent Apple from making the MaxiPad - an iPad with ports, real OS X and the techy bits that we all know and love. I doubt that they will (at least until version 5) but they could do it. That makes me sad.

Re:Huh? (1)

jo42 (227475) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325808)

Should have bought a netbook. Writing this on my EeePC. I like a real keyboard.

I sold both my netbooks (8.9" and 10.1") this last week - I can't stand the tiny screens and the keyboards with the Truly Stupid(tm) key layouts any more. I went back to my 15" laptop with decent size keyboard and screen.

that's what happens (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325402)

when some one comes out with a new device.

sure tablets have been out for a decade. but until someone put a tablet GUI on it they weren't worth very much. When apple annouced the iPad I was both happy and sad. Happy that the form factor that I have wanted for a decade would finally be available, sad that it would take 12-18 months before anyone else could ever come close to duplicating the software/hardware/price point.

now I simply have to wait for andriod 3.0 to come out, along with some decently assembled hardware and i will finally have what I wanted when Bill gates annouced windows for tablets 8 years ago.

Whip out that gopher client? (2, Insightful)

mveloso (325617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325408)

Technology marches ahead. I can't check those 5.25 floppies anymore. How about those Corvus 5MB hard drives or cassette tapes of Lemonade?

That's how it is. If he doesn't like it, he can jailbreak his iPad, port Bochs, and install XP.

Re:Whip out that gopher client? (5, Insightful)

GiveBenADollar (1722738) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325738)

Often technology takes a step back to take a step forward. Remember when CDs-DVDs replaced floppies? Suddenly you either had to burn a -rw or waste a -r to copy files. Then USB drives hit the market and you had the best of both worlds, the size and the usability. Look at the Ipad as a stepping stone, once users see its flaws they will be ready to accept something that lacks those flaws.

Re:Whip out that gopher client? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325786)

False dichotomy. He can just purchase a netbook or laptop. Problem solved.

Here's what's not a false dichotomy, though. If you don't like what he has to say, you can ignore him instead of spouting of patently false and fallacious tripe.

Buy a notebook (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325414)

Dear Mr. Whiner, Please stop buying stuff that isn't what you want or need. It sounds like you need a notebook. I do too. Don't buy an iPad if you need to create a lot of content or if Flash is super important to you. There is another option called a notebook. You can buy them with OS X, Windows, and Linux (you may have to load that yourself on a lot of the hardware choices). I don't see a problem here. For people who can live within the limitations imposed by the iPad, perhaps it is a good device for them. For me, and it sounds like for you, the iPad is just a toy with limitations that don't make it worth our while.

Re:Buy a notebook (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325540)

+5 "No Shit!" ;)

He has my sympathy (5, Insightful)

zill (1690130) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325418)

It must suck to have Steve Jobs break into your house, smash your netbook, and force you at gunpoint to buy an iPad.

Re:He has my sympathy (4, Funny)

couchslug (175151) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325514)

"It must suck to have Steve Jobs break into your house, smash your netbook, and force you at gunpoint to buy an iPad."

I for one find the idea vaguely arousing.

Re:He has my sympathy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325570)

It must suck to have Steve Jobs destroy the market for netbooks so that by the time your current one dies, you have a hell of a time replacing it.

Re:He has my sympathy (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325768)

It must suck to have Steve Jobs destroy the market for netbooks

Uh, if there is a market for netbooks, it will exist. Last I checked, Mr. Jobs wasn't running around threatening people at gunpoint so they don't buy a netbook in lieu of their, according to Slashdotters, inferior iPad product.

Re:He has my sympathy (1)

Suki I (1546431) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325644)

It must suck to have Steve Jobs break into your house, smash your netbook, and force you at gunpoint to buy an iPad.

My thoughts exactly. I got a Toshiba Netbook shortly after trying out a friend's and I love it. I tend to use my computers a little longer than most people, so will see what is out there again in a few years. Really not seeing this "software threat" as an issue while everything I have loaded on my machines works and won't do "less" than it does today.

Other smartphones obsolete? (3, Informative)

line-bundle (235965) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325422)

Which planet do you live on?

Other smartphone are not obsolete by a long shot.

I stopped reading after the first sentence.

Re:Other smartphones obsolete? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325604)

The iPhone made the smart phones of the time obsolete. Every other smartphone maker (even Blackberry) started aiming for iPhone-like usability. Have you ever used a Windows Mobile or Palm (pre-Pre) phone? The iPhone changed the game in 2007. I don't even own one, but all the sweet Android phones (and WinMo 7) owe quite a bit to the original iPhone. Just look up the pre-iPhone Android phone designs.

Re:Other smartphones obsolete? (1)

line-bundle (235965) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325864)

The iPhone made the smart phones of the time obsolete. Every other smartphone maker (even Blackberry) started aiming for iPhone-like usability. Have you ever used a Windows Mobile or Palm (pre-Pre) phone? The iPhone changed the game in 2007. I don't even own one, but all the sweet Android phones (and WinMo 7) owe quite a bit to the original iPhone. Just look up the pre-iPhone Android phone designs.

That's not what the first sentence said. Maybe you are into Monty Python:

Spectator I: I think it was "Blessed are the cheesemakers".
Mrs. Gregory: Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?
Gregory: Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

PDAs got pushed out of the market (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325670)

But I don't want a phone because I don't want a 70 USD per month phone bill. Can I get a smartphone without a phone? Before iPhone, I could get a smartphone without a phone, and it was called a PDA. Apple still makes these under the name "iPod touch", but if I specifically don't want Apple's restrictions, where should I go to learn about recommendations for a quality Android 2 PDA?

Re:Other smartphones obsolete? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325672)

TFA seems to think that the only thing you could ever do on a personal computer could be done on a netbook and now that we have even more limited devices, the end of the computing world is neigh.

Kinda of a restricted view of the world. I'm sure there are people running Photoshop on an 10 inch netbook, but I sure don't envy them.

Re:Other smartphones obsolete? (1)

jaxinabox (1386683) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325710)

I'ts not that smartphones are obsolete, it's the market in general that praises Apple for having such a "wonderful product" that does it all. What pisses me off is that people don't realize that as the iPhone gets popular, people will write more programs for those products, instead of the other smartphones, because that's where the money is, and when you want an app that does some thing you HAVE to have the iWhatever to do it. Apple is just over priced, i use to be a mac guy back in the 90s, but as they grew and it became harder for me to service my own machine without having to go to one of their stores or shops i got pissed. At least with PCs in general you have a bunch of options you simply do not have with Apple. I love my android phone. It does what i need it to do. I hope it keeps growing.

Mass market consumption=lowest common denominator (1)

TheWoozle (984500) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325424)

It occurs to me that I had essentially the same conversation recently with a European acquaintance regarding the availability of a nice pate or decent wine at grocery stores here in the states.

Don't worry, Dave Winer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325430)

...RedTube and YouPorn and their ilk are recoding to H.264 as fast as they can.

Obsolete...No. (3, Insightful)

Local ID10T (790134) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325438)

I use a smartphone (non-iPhone) and a netbook pretty much every day. They are far from obsolete, as they do exactly what I need in a form factor that provides a good balance of size, weight and battery life.

If your iPad doesn't meet your needs how can you claim it makes other devices that DO meet your needs obsolete?

I still want an iPad, but more as a cool toy than to fill any need. Oh, and I do not want an iPhone.

One person's needs vs. the plurality's needs (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325690)

If your iPad doesn't meet your needs how can you claim it makes other devices that DO meet your needs obsolete?

Because it meets the needs of so many other people that the original poster's specific needs get crowded out as not worth manufacturers' opportunity cost.

Some day Some one (1)

GarryFre (886347) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325444)

Is going to find an old ancient iPad and take a look at it and say "WTH where they thinking?"

Of course you need other devices than the ipad (1)

Superken7 (893292) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325446)

Thats because the iPad is not meant as a netbook replacement. It is built with a "desktop dependency" in mind. Lack of flash, USB ports, iTunes dependency, etc...
Sure it overlaps in many use cases of the netbook, plus the ipad is definitely cutting into netbook sales, but netbooks are definitely not the same thing and they will surely not be replaced by the ipad.

If all he wants is a powerful, featureful and capable tablet in that form factor, then wait for others to do more capable tablets where you will be able to have flash, plug in USB devices and not require a PC for operating it(i.e. no iTunes dependencies, etc). Android will probably take care of most of it, MeeGo of the rest, IMO.

It's not a devolution (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325452)

Don't buy the iPad if it doesn't have the features you need. This is not a corporate filter: every company has to make technology decisions about what they include and don't include in their products, depending on the target audience and what they want the functionality of the device to be.

The iPad is not the be all end all, end of the line product for Netbook owners to switch to.

If it does not meet people's needs it will not sell. Every technology has features and limitations. And there will be competition, if there are markets whose needs are not met by iPad, because there is profit to be made in selling people what they want.

Just because your shiny new iPad doesn't have a parallel port to plug in your 1990s-era printer doesn't mean we have a devolution.

Sometimes the market moves away from older technologies, and you have to switch to the new standards when you get new toys.

Like BEOS, Amiga and so many others (1, Interesting)

improfane (855034) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325462)

This is business.

Nobody in the IT industry can honestly think that quality actually gets you anywhere. It's marketing, lawyers and sales, advertisers that are the cockroaches that ruined innovation for good.

The Iphone, googol and whatever techcompany will do what it can to survive...

I hope Windows never goes obsolete and nor does my dumb phone.

I hope Windows never goes obsolete (1)

Gonoff (88518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325528)

Too late...

Yeah, totally wiped out my netbook... (5, Funny)

Thraxy (1782662) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325470)

The iPad totally wiped out my netbook. I don't really need a keyboard, non-shiny screen for outdoor viewing, webcam, 3 USB ports, 2 GB RAM, 160 GB harddrive space and a Windows+Linux dualboot. What I really wanted was a digital picture frame I could poke...

Re:Yeah, totally wiped out my netbook... (4, Funny)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325502)

What I really wanted was a digital picture frame I could poke...

And there we have the definitive description of an iPad. If I hadn't just finished my drink it would have been coming out of my nose.

Huh? (1)

Kohath (38547) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325474)

This article is so poorly written that I don't understand what the complaint is.

He apparently wants software and devices that all work perfectly, provide an awesome user experience, but with no corporations involved in making the devices or the software or any of the content. Or something. like that.

Is that it? If so, why is such a childish attitude considered worthy of anyone's time or attention?

word count (2, Insightful)

Bazman (4849) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325476)

Was someone a bit short on the word count, and decided that "web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad" was a direct replacement for 'Flash'?

Re:word count (1)

Sir_Sri (199544) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325676)

it's also websites that do not play nice with small screens or are (as in the case of many corporate apps) only functional with a very specific web browser and or configuration.

Sure, a website that doesn't play nice with a small screen is usually the developers fault, and yes, people still relying on IE6 should be, if not shot, at least replaced by competent people. But what matters when I buy a device is how well can it connect, now how well it should connect.

Re:word count (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325722)

Was someone a bit short on the word count, and decided that "web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad" was a direct replacement for 'Flash'?

No, it's short for "Flash, Silverlight, Java, and those HTML5 APIs that Safari for iOS happens not to implement yet".

Self-promotion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325504)

Winer knows that people pay more attention to him when he's harping on Apple. He's practically made a career out of it. Look, it's working! Here I am posting about his article..

This is new? (1)

TheRedDuke (1734262) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325512)

Old software doesn't work on new devices a lot, or it just doesn't work as well (ex. I just got Win7 and my Autodesk 2007 software isn't happy). New tech means taking advantage of new features, which ultimately means buying new software from time to time. Still need the old stuff? There's almost always a workaound.

Why is anyone still complaining about this? (4, Insightful)

AdmiralXyz (1378985) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325550)

I'm about ready to grab a sledgehammer and start forcibly tattooing this mantra into the heads of every internet commenter and Slashdot editor who has to complain about the evils of Apple's walled garden: If you don't like it, don't buy it. For Christ's sake, no one is holding a gun to your head and making you buy Apple products. There are, and always will be*, alternatives. Apple gives people a tradeoff: stability and easy of use at the cost of freedom and configurability. Just because you don't like that tradeoff, doesn't mean it's not useful and convenient for others, and when you whine about it, all you're really doing is revealing that you deeply desire an iPad. Put your money where your mouth is by shutting up and buying something is.

* And yes, I've heard all the FUD about how Apple's practices are going to tempt other manufacturers into doing the same thing they are. Give me a break.

Re:Why is anyone still complaining about this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325744)

And yes, I've heard all the FUD about how Apple's practices are going to tempt other manufacturers into doing the same thing they are. Give me a break.

Yes, it's not like even Apple's arch-enemy Microsoft decided to kill off their open, user-controlled mobile platform in favour of a walled garden with a strictly controlled app store or anything. Definitely FUD. Sure.

Re:Why is anyone still complaining about this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325836)

Please make that also happen with various companies and even public institutions developing applications exclusively for iOS when most of these could be implemented on a device-agnostic web site or a PDF document instead. There have been news of taxpayers' money being spent on iPhone applications of various kinds although considerably less than one citizen in ten anywhere have a device to use these applications. Materials of many kinds (in universities and such) have been specially prepared for Steveists' ease of consumption, instead of general public in mind. Is it so that iPhone/iPad users are considered to be handicapped and require special support in the form of expensively developed, underused applications?

I'm waiting for Nokia N9, yet it would be beyond any sort of sanity me to lobby governments (local or not) or companies develop narrowly defined "applications" (rarely more than themed, semi-interactive piece of media) specifically for Qt devices. I'm all for the device, but at the same time I'm all for HTML5, PDF and open, or at least platform agnostic container formats for audio and video. Hell, I can live even with Flash. Those of you that make decisions on development of content that would be seen easily packaged as an iOS "application", please don't choose that path. Instead, choose something that doesn't exclude 90% of the users.

I don't want to end up in a society where I have a possibility to choose between devices - but only by buying at least one Apple device being able to access content that could easily be represented with open, standardised, non-walled-garden formats and services. For some reason, consumers and developers are flocking towards that direction just because one particular guy called Steve is a marketing spin doctor genius.

Commerciality (1)

MessyBlob (1191033) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325564)

There needs to be a commercial argument for keeping non-commercial solutions.

Summary (1)

jdong (1378773) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325566)

"iPad sux -- amirite?"

The people that does not get it ... (1, Interesting)

MrJones (4691) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325586)

How is that supposedly smart people does not understand the basic of math?

A 3.5 inch display is not the same size as a 19 inch display.
You can not use flash UI (or any other UI) in such a tiny display, its not Apple/Adobe's fault.
You just can not replace 1 square pixel pointer (mouse) with a 9 square pixel pointer(finger) and expect everything to work the same.

Re:The people that does not get it ... (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325782)

A 3.5 inch display is not the same size as a 19 inch display.

A 3.5 inch display is also not the same size as an iPad's display, so I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.

Re:The people that does not get it ... (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325802)

You can not use flash UI (or any other UI) in such a tiny display

Perhaps a UI designed for a maximized window on a 1024x768 pixel display won't work on an iPod touch, but plenty of SWF animations and games on Newgrounds are of the appropriate pixel size.

(C)rapple products (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325632)

(C)rapple products have all always been extremely overpriced. All of their products since the IIe have been cheaply made junk!

Pad type devices my have there uses, but they cannot ever replace the functionality of a good laptop/netbook. I am typing this on an IBM Thinkpad (T41 purchased used on eBay) that cost less than $150.00. This laptop so outperforms an iPad that it makes the price difference totally rediculous in the extreme!

From what I have seen, the iPad is more like an overpriced ebook reader than a computing device

My argument in favor of "devolution" (1, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325652)

Most of the time, I argue in opposition of intentionally limited functionality. In most respects, I still do. For example, I don't want my ability to sync or transfer data hampered by any given interest. I don't want what is presently "basic functionality" (like copy and paste or saving attachments) to be held back either.

But devices that do too much of everything will find itself less capable of the single or few tasks that users really want. In previous comments, I mentioned that I finally dropped my blackberry in favor of a Samsung T959. It is all the stuff that iPhone is but without the restrictions that I perceive as show-stoppers. (Presently, my only real complaint is the lack of accessible removable SD card without having to remove the battery.) After rooting this phone (which was exceedingly easy) I can do whatever it is I want to do with it so far. But it is still a phone and I would prefer that its functions not exceed the currently accepted range of functions of hand-held devices. These functions are many and varied but are not quite as robust as a desktop/laptop experience. (I certainly don't want Inkscape or GiMP running on my phone... I don't need an Office quite either though the ability to view and work with various documents would be handy.)

Yet, with all that said, when it comes to devices the size of iPad, there is no excuse for limiting functionality or capability. It's bigger and inherently lacks physical limitations visually and in capability. Once again, I probably don't want to do any sort of intensive work on an iPad like device, but I would like a complete web experience by desktop standards and I would like to edit and work with office documents.

Also, one thing I have learned from Windows PCs is that when too many apps, applets, drivers and the like are installed, we end up with a whole machine that loses power and usability. Why the HELL does HP want to load stupid monitor apps for every device installed? DVD burning software is commonly guilty of this as well. When your systray is even 1/4th the width of your display filled with applets, there is a huge problem with system speed and usability. You just can't do too much with a single Windows PC without a lot of tweaking and careful uninstallation and disabling of various things. But going the opposite direction isn't for the best either.

A sane limitation on what a device will do is certainly called for.

Price (1, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325902)

I finally dropped my blackberry in favor of a Samsung T959. It is all the stuff that iPhone is but without the restrictions that I perceive as show-stoppers.

I'm glad you're happy with it. But I have a different show-stopper for Samsung Galaxy S: its $600 price tag (source: Google Product Search), compared to $200 for an iPod touch. True, each U.S. cell phone carrier sells a subsidized version of Galaxy S, but I don't make nearly enough voice calls on my current dumbphone to warrant paying for the 450 minutes per month minimum voice plan that all carriers insist on, and I can wait until I'm at Wi-Fi (home or work or a restaurant) to connect to the Internet.

by xmas there will be around 15 android tablets (1)

f0dder (570496) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325692)

just like the Android phones (evo, hero, droid, galaxy, nexus one) there will be a lot of tablets. Competition is a good thing. Apple designed a good implementation of an iPad. Just like they did with the iPod & later the iPhone. Good for them.

Ya (1)

jewishbaconzombies (1861376) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325748)

He needs to go to a desktop so he can see Homestar Runner and other all-flash sites. That's certainly stops the internet in it's track. Those flash games really prevent me from surfing the web on my iPad as well. Thanks Dave - thank you for saving the internet from the likes of my iPad. Otherwise those people using flashblocker plug-ins in firefox might be accused of devolving the web too.

In other news - when the hell is HR going to update anyway?

Fiction (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325756)

There is nothing new or interesting here. When we were first using the Web, certain things would work on certain machines. When MS starting pushing IE as an application front end, not everything would work will all version of IE. An upgrade could break a page and one would have to look for an older machine. There have always been incompatibilities associated with any change in technology.

It seems to me what people want is the convenience of a corporate produced product without the inevitable compromises that such a product entails. I mean if you are going to use MS products you are going to have deal with security and the occasional changes that are not end user friendly. If you are going to use google products,you have to deal with the fact that most of the time the end user is not the customer, so all decisions go back to ad revenue. If you are going to use apple, you are going to have to deal with a culture of aesthetics and novelty, which means anything ancient, more than three years old, the old way of doing things, is not going to work.

Is anyone making anyone use these products.No. We choose to use them because on balance they provide a piratical solution. If they do not provide a solution, don't use them. If your life is based around yahoo maps, then then Apple products may not be for you, just like if life is based around Flash or IE. You know, ancient tech.

Nonsense, Weiner's Software doesn't Work (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325772)

(Because it would have to be hardware! Baddum bash!)

Okay, I'll admit it, I read BOTH articles.

But the software that Mr. Weiner holds up as "Software That Works" is Flash. Here's what a review in LAPTOP magazine had to say about Flash (for mobile devices):

"I'm the last person on earth who wanted to believe Steve Jobs when he told Walt Mossberg at D8 that "Flash has had its day." I took it as nothing more than showmanship when Jobs shared his thoughts on Flash and wrote that "Flash is closed and proprietary, has major technical drawbacks, and doesn't support touch based devices." After spending time playing with Flash Player 10.1 on the new Droid 2, the first Android 2.2 phone to come with the player pre-installed, I'm sad to admit that Steve Jobs was right. Adobe's offering seems like it's too little, too late."

http://blog.laptopmag.com/mobile-flash-fail-weak-android-player-proves-jobs-right

So how is the iPad degrading the user experience again?

I no longer login because I feel the bias against Apple (ex. highly moderated comments above) has become editorial policy of Slashdot and not "news for nerds stuff that matters". For example I submitted the above story about the (serious) shortcoming of mobile Flash but instead this fluff piece gets posted.

Protest against the bias and hostlity by not giving Slashdot your identy (which they use to attract advertisers).

 

Re:Nonsense, Weiner's Software doesn't Work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325822)

Don't let the door hit you on the ass, fanboy.

Fools bargain (0, Flamebait)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325818)

Apple appliances are simply a fools bargain and that fact simply needs to be restated for the benefit of the average noon consumer.

It's needs to be repeated to help balance all the nonsense and hype.

Apples And Oranges (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325824)

I still don't understand why the iPad is pitted against the netbook. They are two VERY different devices, and in reality have VERY different markets.

Anyone who bought an iPad because that was the kind of device they were looking for were not looking for a netbook to fill that need. The same applies vice versa.

I have a netbook and I love it. I could use a tiny bit larger screen but it fills a need that the iPad could never possibly fill. I wanted a very small portable computer with a full computing operating system and a real keyboard and this is what a netbook gives me.

When it comes time to upgrade my phone, I'll be going for an Android phone with a large screen. I feel like this will easily cover what I would ultimately get out of a device like the iPad.

For reading books and whatnot, I enjoy using my ultra low power consumption eReader because of the ease of reading on the eInk display.

Yeah, maybe it sucks to have multiple devices to fill all of those spaces of use, but the iPad simply can't fill any of those spaces for me because the only need I have for a tablet computer is reading books. The only other use I'd have for it is it being a toy to play with. I'm not going to pay a shitload of money for a toy I'll probably play with for a week or so and hardly use ever again.

The market will decide this matter (1)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325868)

If a lot of people feel like Dave then the iPad will not sell. Nobody is a victim in this matter. I think it will sell well. My wife and I spent of August at an expensive resort. We brought 2 ipads with us. We saw a lot of other ipads around the pool.

iPhone hasnt rendered phones from 2007 obsolete (1)

dingen (958134) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325884)

Three years of time did. Just like old iPhones are obsolete now and iPads from 2010 will be obsolete in 2013.

I always thought XP was the draw to netbooks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33325898)

Since they were really the only computer you could pick up at Best Buy without Vista. As soon as word got out that Windows 7 is pretty decent, then the allure of staying with XP and/ or avoiding Vista pretty much vanished.

it's his fault! (2, Insightful)

josepha48 (13953) | more than 3 years ago | (#33325900)

and people like him. If you go out and buy an iphone, ipad, itouch, or whatever and it does not support flash and you want flash and the full web experience, then by doing so you are supporting devolution.

I'm not saying that they are not great devices or whatever if you buy one you know what you are getting or should. If you don't it is your own fault. It's called supply and demand. Apple is suppling what people are demanding and even if it falls short in an area or two most people are happy with what they get.

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