Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

India Now Wants Access To Google and Skype

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the voip-is-hoip dept.

Google 366

crabel writes "A couple of weeks ago India went after RIM and its mail service; it has extended its hunger for data now to all telecommunications. All telecom companies have to give them access to all voice over IP services that go in/out or happen within the country. Heck, they are even going after VPNs used by corporate employees working remotely."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Well... (5, Informative)

panda (10044) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435438)

Fuck doing business with India or Indian corporation/nationals.

Re:Well... (4, Insightful)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435544)

Considering how many businesses still flock to China with relatively little protection for their IP, I doubt this will affect business relations much as long as it is more profitable to do business there than elsewhere.

Re:Well... (1)

gnieboer (1272482) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436324)

There is, to be fair, a difference between respecting IP (or not), and monitoring all your internal VPN data traffic.

Re:Well... (4, Interesting)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435576)

I'm not sure I'd even trust certs issued by any companies based in india at this point.

Anyone have any suggestions which cert authorities I should be excluding?

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435598)

Fuck doing business with India or Indian corporation/nationals.

Mod parent up. Who really wants any of their information in the hands of a government? The last thing I want is a foreign government getting their dirty filthy stinking grubby hands on my information.

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435618)

I really wish the corporations thought that way, then maybe this bullshit can be stopped.

Re:Well... (1)

Defenestrar (1773808) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436258)

And rule out ~1/6 of the current availability of human resources and future (and in some cases current) market potential? If the company is publicly traded, the stock holders may be able to make a good case about this being an illegal business decision because it's not in the company's best fiscal interest (The company would have to have a business case for why pulling out would cost them less than merely allowing a sovereign power access to data (presumably secure and having legal authority to do so - the fourth amendment is not a universal legal right (human right is another question))).

Re:Well... (5, Insightful)

moogied (1175879) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435636)

Flamebait?! This is a VERY valid statement. If have sensitive documents and do a lot of work in India because you own a call center there or something, you would most certainty need to look at this.

Re:Well... (3, Insightful)

tophermeyer (1573841) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435994)

I'll second that because I see you got modded flamebait as well. It's nothing against Indians or companies that operate in India, but data disclosure is something you need to be aware of. If a company is going to be distributing your information you need to know who it goes to and why they want it. The fact that this would apply to every company that operates in India seems very relevant.

Maybe you decide it's ok that the Indian government gets ahold of your data. Maybe your data is sensitive and you don't want any government obtaining it. It's worth paying attention to at the very least.

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

Peeteriz (821290) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436128)

Encrypt your data. Public VoIP gets the exact same treatment as the telephone network when you're calling your branch office in Mumbai - if the government asks, the call is intercepted, and any third parties will give out your data - your phone, mobile, mail and DHL/Fedex packages are all subject to this.
If you want privacy, don't trust third-party public networks and do encrypted message exchanges that you and only you control.

Re:Well... (3, Insightful)

delinear (991444) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436186)

Unfortunately, for anyone who cares about how their data is used, it's the companies who will make the decision. I might switch my bank to one I consider more secure only to find in two months time that they intend to outsource key parts of the business. I wonder if we'll eventually see a niche market in organisations which guarantee to keep your data within the boundaries of your own country (then you only have to worry about your own government getting their hands on it).

Re:Well... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435768)

Parent isn't so much "Flamebait" as it is "Insightful" in this instance...

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435780)

I'm posting anonymously as my new employer has not found the time to purchase my company laptop and I'm "borrowing" a co-workers machine.

So, post explanation, let me say I have many friends, a few family members, and a few acquaintances who are from India. Even knowing how nice these people are and such, I agree with Panda - fuck doing business with India. The reasons I say this are manifold, but include the fact that if American companies quit outsourcing to India (and other countries) exactly how many jobs would be created in the American economy? How much money would be pumped back into the economy that is teetering between recovery and disaster #2? Are companies so stupid that they have lost sight of the fact that if America's economy fails and we cannot get jobs that pay a living (or BETTER) wage then WE can't buy those nice shiny objects they're selling?

Borrowing heavily and massive credit card debt are slowly being eliminated from the many friends and family I've talked to - and news I keep hearing as well. Everyone is a little paranoid and they are paying off debt as fast as they can; well, most everyone is. We have plenty of people who want to work in the United States they just don't want to work for $5 or $6 an hour AFTER taxes. Unless you're living in a highly affordable area (which eliminates most cities), then you can't survive on that wage without help of some kind.

Bah, I've digressed a bit but the point remains - do business in America you American companies. Stop outsourcing everything, including the natural talent that America (used to?) has. If we keep brain-draining our research and other knowledge to foreign countries what the hell are we going to have left? We've shipped everything else off - manufacturing, electronics, call centers, etc, etc.

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436080)

I agree with Panda - fuck doing business with India. The reasons I say this are manifold...

Could you elaborate? I can't seem to figure out your car analogy.

Re:Well... (0, Offtopic)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436154)

yo, dawg; I hear your vpn needs a vpn, so I

(oh, fuck it!)

Re:Well... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436216)

The Indian side of me understands completely where they are coming from. Shit, America is doing the same thing, just undercover. India is a large target for terrorist attacks and this is one way they can monitor the Indian public and anyone who communicates with the Indian public for any terrorist activities.

I'm not saying its right, based on American laws...but what native Indian is going to fight this? They all want to be safe. They don't want to worry about another Mumbai attack.

The American side of me understands where most of the posts here are coming from. Invasion of privacy, corrupt governments using information against its own people, and the thought of someone having all information about you at their fingertips. Again, this all happens in America, but there are atleast some laws that protect us just a little.

To the Indian government: I hope you can come up with another way to protect our people. Demanding things from businesses such as this is a truly poor choice for international business and, eventually, the trust of your people in you. Get that census thing done right, give every Indian an ID number, map out all of the towns in the country...pretty much turn India into today's US. Train a good military force, and protect the borders. It's time to play some good defense, and when called for, put that offense into effect.

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436214)

Who do they think they are, the US?

Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (5, Insightful)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435446)

Demanding access to all the corporate VPNs is a great way to make companies more skittish about outsourcing there!

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435536)

this theme rings loud and clear! almost all the posts (as of right now) echo this sentiment.

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435652)

I'm sure other countries have access to their services, it's just they've learned to be more subtle.

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (5, Insightful)

CaptBubba (696284) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435704)

This is especially true considering just how notoriously corrupt a lot of the Indian government is. It has been featured on NPR and other news outlets as being a large impediment to business.

Then you will have someone in a position where they have access to all of your company's secure communications? For the price of a bribe anyone could find out proprietary information that could sink your company or they could gain access to listen in on calls and glean account information for identity theft or just to solicit customers.

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435862)

If your company regularly has information going around that could quickly sink it, you probably need to think about your internal security (and maybe even your business model) a little more carefully.

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (1)

tophermeyer (1573841) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436082)

But that's the point. Maybe your internal security is fine. Do you know how secure the Indian Governments data streams are? Do you think you would have any ability to increase that security if you found a weakness?

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (4, Insightful)

pavera (320634) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436092)

This really wouldn't be too uncommon. IBM has to have very detailed technical conversations/emails/etc with outsourced people in India, it would not take much to determine their future plans, product launches, progress, feature sets, etc. If you're competing with IBM and have access to all this information, you can easily beat them in the game. Same goes for any company with outsourced workers in India. It's not necessarily that it would "quickly sink" IBM, but it could easily quickly sink a new product launch, or a new division... And if you're a startup, and IBM, HP, or MSFT has access to this information that you've passed off to your outsourced labor, it could very quickly sink your company. IBM releases your product 2 months before you do you're done.

You mentioned "thinking about your internal security" the problem isn't internal security, it is that your perceived internal security now has an open spigot to the government of India... you have no internal security by default. Employees have to be able to discuss project progress, plans, etc. You have to have product meetings, there has to be communication about these things or nothing will ever get done. And the nature of these discussions if revealed to a third party can easily spell doom to a product, business division, or startup.

Further, it would be a huge temptation to use this information to trade stocks... Think you overhear an HP conversation where its revealed that they just lost a major customer to IBM, or they are months behind schedule on a new product... You've finally found step 2
1) Use gov't access to private communication to glean insider information
2) Short/Buy stock as appropriate
3) Wait for information to become public/earnings release
4) Profit

Re:Is India trying to *stab* its economy? (2, Interesting)

NetNed (955141) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436224)

Should be a lesson to all businesses that outsourcing has even more draw backs then originally thought.

Have worked for companies over the years that outsourced design work there and it was a lesson in "you get what you pay for". S.O.P. not followed, formats disregarded, no concept of how to use software correctly, and not using any kind of standard in the dimensional drawings.

If you have ever dissected a product and wondered why on earth it was designed in such a stupid way it is because of design taking a back seat to getting a product to market, outsourcing to countries with ill trained people that are akin to slave labor and pushed to get things out as fast as possible, and stupid design decisions based on saving $.01 even if it hurts the integrity of the product.

Somewhere along the way corporations convinced themselves that people do not want quality products and instead would like to pay full price for something that will definitely break prematurely.

another reason (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435470)

Great, another reason not to send American jobs to India as if crappy support from people you can't understand isn't enough ;)

Re:another reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435658)

Having called Microsoft support in India and the US, the Indians were easier to understand and far more helpful. None of this nonsense about hiding their names -- I spoke to a "Pradesh", not a "Billy" or "Joey". I suspect MS uses a decent outfit -- you do get what you pay for.

Re:another reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435932)

You know, Pradesh is as common as Billy or Joey in India. Regardless, most Indians I've met in the IT business are friendly and helpful.

Re:another reason (0, Flamebait)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436170)

No doubt. Sometimes all it sounds like is "blah blah aboot blah blah, eh?". Damn other people with their damn native languages.

"hunger for data" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435478)

Birdy Nam Nam hungry again?

Sevens Sins (0, Offtopic)

Voulnet (1630793) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435488)

Someone tell India that Gluttony and Greed are two of the seven sins.

Re:Sevens Sins (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435570)

Given that the "Seven Deadly Sins [wikipedia.org] " are a Christian construct and only 2.3% of India's population is Christian [wikipedia.org] , I don't think a nation state with polytheistic Hindu as it's official religion will care much about your datum.

Re:Sevens Sins (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435960)

I don't think a nation state with polytheistic Hindu as it's official religion

Nitpick time. India does not have a official religion, though the majority of the population follows Hinduism.

Re:Sevens Sins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436202)

Not all Hinduism is polytheistic.

Re:Sevens Sins (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436208)

Given that the "Seven Deadly Sins" are a Christian construct and only 2.3% of India's population is Christian

Worse, it's not a Christian construct, it's a Catholic construct that only impacts a minority of Christians (the Catholics). To all other Christians, there are 10 deadly sins, and gluttony and greed aren't in the list. Although Christ did speak out against both, they are actions that can lead to sin, not sins in and of themselves.

Re:Sevens Sins (1)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436290)

Uh, Catholicism is the predominant form of Christianity, about 50-70%, if I remember correctly. So it impacts a (admittedly slight) majority of Christians.

Re:Sevens Sins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436296)

Have you considered that's exactly what the OP meant?

You know, the fact that they're not aware of the "real" Sins will be their downfall according to Christians.

well... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435490)

Maybe this is a good thing, in a way. maybe if India requires access to corporate vpn, it will dissuade security-conscious companies, such as a large, multinational, 3-lettered one, from outsourcing to india

Re:well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435834)

rim? ibm? pim? tfs? att? lol?

vpns? maybe outsourcing will slow down, then. (3, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435512)

trying to look at the bright side (sort of). selfishly, I realize that-

but if there is fear in US companies that they can no longer trust people in india (eg, tech workers) because the risk of losing their competitive edge either to the government or other companies might be too much.

if I had signature authority on outsourcing for a company, I'd strongly reconsider pulling back any 'sensitive' work that is being done there. as of now, its no longer 'secure' (not sure it ever really was but now its totally worthless as a trustable domain).

this could actually help tech workers in the US. in a left-handed kind of way, that is.

suddenly, I'm all for india filtering and spying on its citizens!

ok... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435516)

I'm sure most governments do the same thing (certainly the US), just not out in the public for everyone to know about.

Re:ok... (2, Insightful)

Predius (560344) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435608)

Only way the government is getting access to my VPNs in the US is with a court order and warrants, and even then they're only getting exactly what is spelled out to the letter in the warrant and nothing more. Any vague sweeping requests will be punted back up stream.

Re:ok... (3, Insightful)

bickerdyke (670000) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436036)

Or a "National Security Letter" where you can't neither talk nor complain about?

Re:ok... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436134)

who cares. just talk about it anyway.

If only ... (3, Insightful)

m0s3m8n (1335861) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435538)

If only all google, skype, and others would just stop service for 1 day, maybe the Indian Government would reconsider. But that would probably be called collusion or something and branded illegal. Were is the State Department? Are they trying to defuse the situation? I ask because I don't know if they have any involvement.

Re:If only ... (2, Informative)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435814)

Any action by the US government on this issue would not go over well diplomatically.

Politicians... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435542)

This is what happens when the national security policy is run by incompetent buffoons who have no understanding of security or IT.

Goodbye India (0)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435574)

You wanted to be the greatest source of ICT Professionals in the world.

You started low - call centres - but hoped high.

Now you just shot yourself in the foot with a rocket launcher.

Re:Goodbye India (5, Funny)

Predius (560344) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435706)

You wanted to be the greatest source of ICT Professionals in the world.

You started low - call centres - but hoped high.

Now you just shot yourself in the foot with a rocket launcher.

As long as they got a good bounce they'll reach the Quad Damage and be rocking despite the minor health loss up front.

Re:Goodbye India (1)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435970)

You wanted to be the greatest source of ICT Professionals in the world.

Just because their resume said that they had 20 years of experience with Halo and Starcraft, I would not be so quick to try and get them a visa to be on your team!

Not A Surprise (4, Interesting)

anonymousNR (1254032) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435596)

When I was doing my masters(in India) , my friend through his relative was able to get a project with DRDO(One of India's Defence Research Department).
His project was to develop a GUI in QT in linux for the Data Packet Sniffer program they already had in place, yes it reads all the incoming and outgoing emails of all the employees
, and everybody knows about this and nobody cares about it.
India has bigger problems called Corruption,Terrorism [wikipedia.org] ,Communal Conflicts [wikipedia.org] to deal with that everyone is treated Guilty until proven Innocent.

Re:Not A Surprise (4, Insightful)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435850)

This level of monitoring without transparency will just make corruption easier.

S/MIME (4, Informative)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435600)

There is a solution: Use S/MIME. This is the email encryption standard supported by all major mail clients without need for plugins. It can even work with web-based gmail using a firefox addon: http://richard.jones.name/google-hacks/gmail-smime/gmail-smime.html [jones.name]

You can create your own certificates or get free certificates from places like Comodo.

One quirk of S/MIME is that the subject line is not encrypted. This is a good place to add the text "India can suck my beef jerky" to every encrypted message.

Re:S/MIME (2, Interesting)

son.of.sun (1889694) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436116)

The Indian IT law requires that the person encrypting the message (if from India) or the person intended for receipt (if the sender is outside India) provide the encryption key to the security agencies on being ordered to do so under law. This is despite some obvious loopholes in the expectations that the person being asked to do so is even technically capable of doing so. So S/MIME or GPG or other custom encryption methods don't really make sense for the intent you're suggesting.

That's Nice (3, Insightful)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435604)

They could potentially do some real damage to their economy while still not being able to monitor all electronic communications in their country. Hopefully they're not putting all their security eggs in the "monitoring" basket, because people will find a way to communicate under the radar. Any terrorists that monitoring catches are probably not the ones you have to worry about.

I don't think banks are going to be so compliant (1)

h2okies (1203490) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435612)

and without money flowing in or out...other corporations aren't going to be so willing to allow some random unsecured third governmental party access. My money is that they continue doing what they are currently doing until someone actually notices or attempts access.

The Great Wall of India (2, Insightful)

rantomaniac (1876228) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435614)

Seems like the Indian government has found a more effective way of building a great wall around its borders - let the people outside build it.

India = not all that democratic (0, Troll)

schmidt349 (690948) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435628)

A lot of people don't know this, but the Indians were closely aligned with the Soviet Union in the 1970s. In particular you had the Indo-Soviet Treaty, under which India received military and (gasp) intelligence assistance from the Russians.

So the fact that they're behaving like pseudo-socialist totalitarians right now shouldn't really surprise anybody. And provided they continue to rent their workforce to US corporations at rates that can't be competed with on US soil, our CEOs and CFOs will continue to patronize them.

Re:India = not all that democratic (2, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435710)

our CFO's will outsource the 'mundane' coding, sure. but sensitive stuff? any smart CFO will rethink this.

finally, a competitive advantage. at least RIGHT NOW, the US won't demand that all US based VPN's be sniffable at any time and without a warrant.

we finally have a good reason to NOT offshore; that CFO's can understand.

Re:India = not all that democratic (3, Insightful)

Herkum01 (592704) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436026)

our CFO's will outsource the 'mundane' coding, sure. but sensitive stuff? any smart CFO will rethink this.

Yeah right, the executives that work their way up to CxO are the guys who would save a nickel today to get their bonuses and take a golden parachute out tomorrow when the company tanks.

Re:India = not all that democratic (2, Insightful)

BangaIorean (1848966) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435772)

What nonsense. The only reason India was closely allied with the Soviets was because Pakistan used to suck up to the USA, and used to receive all kinds of assistance from the US. India wasn't as powerful then as it is now, so there weren't really too many options with us. That does not make India any less democratic, so STFU - or is critical reasoning a bit too tough for you? Going by that logic, since the USA and Pakistan have had. and continue to have, this long love affair, one could say that the US is a terrororist-sponsor nation, just like Pakistan!

Re:India = not all that democratic (1)

schmidt349 (690948) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435998)

Wow, touchy much? Admittedly Indo-Soviet relations warmed up in the 1950s after the Pakistanis started taking military aid through SEATO, but the Indians always had the choice to, I don't know, not menace the Pakistanis, who at one-tenth the population never posed a serious threat to them. We wanted strategic entrenchment against the Soviets in Asia and we were prepared to take it any way we could get it; if the Indians had been willing to play ball and not pursue their ridiculous non-alignment policy (which of course they ended up breaking anyway) we probably would have supplied both them and the Pakistanis. It's the same reason why we supported Israel and Turkey.

Whenever the US undergoes a military buildup the Canadians don't run to the nearest dictatorship and start building nuclear weapons. India wanted regional hegemony, was pissed off that American anti-Soviet policy happened to be bulking up their biggest competitor for that role, namely China, so they ran off to the Soviets and started up Smiling Buddha. To suggest that they somehow had clean hands then, or that their international ambitions have somehow cooled off in the meantime, is ridiculous.

Re:India = not all that democratic (1)

schmidt349 (690948) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436096)

And yes, I am perfectly well aware that the Pakistani government was up to very nasty things in the 1970s with the people of Bangladesh. But to cast the Indians as the white knight in that particular conflict is, as the Germans say, Quatsch reden.

Re:India = not all that democratic (0, Troll)

BangaIorean (1848966) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436232)

Let me ask again - is critical analysis too tough for you? No one's casting Indians as the White Knight there - I never said that. Your point was that India is 'less democratic' because India leaned towards the Soviet Union in the cold war (we weren't allied, we used to lean towards them, to be accurate). Now, that statement of yous is bullshit, unless you have your own way of defining democracy. And if a country A sides with country B's existential foe, then country B will turn to country C for help, if country C happens to be A's existential enemy. That isn't too tough to understand!

Re:India = not all that democratic (1)

BangaIorean (1848966) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436162)

Pakistan never posed a threat, coz' India had 10 times more population? Well, what the fuck - it's not about the population, even the USA had around one tenth of India's population at that time. Pakistan and India had a rough parity in the 1950s, and forgive me for this, but only an utter moron will compare USA-Canada and India-Pakistan!

Indians always had the choice to 'not menace the Pakistanis', you say? Who menaced whom? The Pakistanis sent tribesemen, followed by their Army into Indian territory, within one year of their formation, and has sent, and continues to try to send, terrorists to bomb public places and murder civilians, and you say they're the ones being menaced?

If you're pissed off with India and Indians over outsourcing, just say so. You really don't need to be a Pakistani apologist to do that.

Re:India = not all that democratic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436086)

Going by that logic, since the USA and Pakistan have had. and continue to have, this long love affair, one could say that the US is a terrororist-sponsor nation, just like Pakistan!

Are you aware that in the fall of 2001 that long love affair turned into "Get with the fucking program or we'll bomb you back into the fucking stone age?"

Re:India = not all that democratic (1)

Haxamanish (1564673) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435888)

Except for the state of emergency from 1975 until 1977 [wikipedia.org] , elected parliament has always been in power in India. Having a treaty with the Soviet Union has nothing to do with being democratic or not.

Re:India = not all that democratic (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436054)

Motherfucker, I don't mind if criticism is justified and reasonable. But making bullshitty statements like the above, and actually getting rewarded for it, will drive any sane person into a rage. Son of a bitch, realize that the USA slept with the bloody Pakis for decades, and even fuckin' threatened to intervene in an India-Pak war once. So you're suggesting that India should have just rolled over and died in that situation? And bastard, India was, and is a liberal democracy with all the freedom/rights that the US has (some would say more), even at the peak of the cold war. If you want to rant against outsourcing, do it openly, you scoundrel - don't hide behind this totally false 'democracy' thing.

Re:India = not all that democratic (1)

schmidt349 (690948) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436336)

Let me get something straight here. The one, only, singular, final, absolute reason the US supported Pakistan was to undermine the Soviets. Had the Indians been willing to resist Soviet totalitarianism in the early 1950s when we asked them to, we would never have gone near Pakistan or at least have equally supported both countries. Those were the terms of the Cold War. Don't blame America for India's unwillingness to get involved in the war against tyranny until it was politically convenient to do so, and then picking the wrong side of history.

vrtual privacy networks? (2, Informative)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435644)

virtual private network, surely.

Or did some group decide to replace a perfectly good name with a crappy one?

how is this NOT an outlawing of encryption? (4, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435646)

so let me get this straight. the indian government thinks it has a RIGHT to intercept all communication that it wants to (sans warrant, mind you).

does that essentially make personal end-to-end encryption illegal? it has to! the concept of you being able to conceal your comms is in the process of being ILLEGAL there.

people are commenting on 'well, just use SSH or SSL or ...'.

but you are missing the point. if they insist on getting access to all comms, you think they'll tolerate people doing an end-run around this?

the VERY next step is to identify users who side-step this with their own encryption layer and persecute them, one way or another. it has to follow. first you require all data to be sniffable and then you go after those that won't agree.

I remember about 20 yrs or so ago, it was illegal for french citizens to use encryption (details are fuzzy; I may not have this exactly accurate). but france was some kind of exception and vendors had to do all kinds of backflips to sell to french companies. are we going back to shit like this, again??

I think we are. its absolutely coming that encryption will be deemed 'munitions' again. or, encryption that WORKS; the bullshit encryption you think you can trust but is breakable will be 'allowed' to you to keep you feeling like you have some control.

I guess its now: any encryption that is legal is encryption you cannot trust.

Re:how is this NOT an outlawing of encryption? (4, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435856)

people are commenting on 'well, just use SSH or SSL or ...'. but you are missing the point. if they insist on getting access to all comms, you think they'll tolerate people doing an end-run around this?

I think the legislators miss the point about "encrypted VPN" being such a trivial technology. They probably think there must be around 100 big companies doing that in India right now and they will soon discover that their law is inadapted. Back to the drawing board.

I remember about 20 yrs or so ago, it was illegal for french citizens to use encryption (details are fuzzy; I may not have this exactly accurate). but france was some kind of exception and vendors had to do all kinds of backflips to sell to french companies. are we going back to shit like this, again??

There was a limitation to the key length. More than a certain length was considered "military material" and required some authorization. Mind you we were happily generating 1024 bits keys (the limitation was something ridiculous. IIRC but it was something like 56 bits), using them routinely. I doubt anyone has ever been prosecuted for this. It bothered vendors though. We do that a lot in France : vote bad laws, do not apply them, use them as a precedent to vote even worse laws, rinse, repeat.

Re:how is this NOT an outlawing of encryption? (1)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436102)

No, we'll probably just go back to regulating crypto export and keep all the good stuff for ourselves.

difference? (1)

pinky99 (741036) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435674)

What the hey is the difference what china is doing and all the western countries are doing? They can wiretap me anywhere anytime, no matter voip, landline, mobile ... So what?

Re:difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435830)

The difference is that encryption can avoid the man in the middle.

... and I want a pony. (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435678)

I doubt things are going to work out well for either of us.

Too bad for Democracy (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435692)

India Now Wants Access To Google and Skype

Google and Skype should just say no. In fact, if everybody said "NO!" then India would condemn itself to being a third world country. It would also give BlackBerry an incentive to say "NO!" too, because if your competition isn't making money off of evil, then BlackBerry isn't losing any business from competition. Of course India (et al) could always just continue to steal technology, but at least that would give trading partners an incentive to retaliate.

When the democracies start spying on there own citizens then being in a "democracy" is quite useless. Warrants, oversight and checks and balances are what made America (on paper at least) a great nation. Too bad everybody is falling for the lowest common denominator repression that used to be the primary domain of dictatorships.

Just give them access to chatroulette (2, Funny)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435720)

They'll never want to eavesdrop on private communication data again!

Assholes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435724)

Please to be not acting like assholes.

Politricks & Bureaucracy (1)

cheap.computer (1036494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435752)

Politricksters & Bureaucrats trying to make a quick buck... "want to talk ... pay up son .... or we will silence you"

Re:Politricks & Bureaucracy (1)

mSparks43 (757109) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436322)

Does anyone else think the upper cast Indians just discovered the Netocracy and are trying desperately to prove they haven't been demoted to LFoLs (Lower Forms of Life)

snail mail ... telephony ... interenet (1)

cies (318343) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435796)

first there was letters people would send, and people would try to secretly read from eachother, and govts try to read from people.
pro: quite easy to detect sniffing (letter would be opened)
con: cumbersome

then telephony came, again people tied to spy on eachother and the govt tried to spy on its people.
pro: less cumbersome
con: harder to detect sniffing

now with the internet we are in control. people 'could' get proper end-to-end encryption schemes and signatures, but generally we're too lazy. so we leave the encryption up to the protocols and therefor merely use connection encryption. the govt is now easily denied its spying rights.
pros and cons aside: it's a game changer.

large govts have tried to deny us state-of-the-art encryption (the US), now they are directly demanding access at the companies that facilitate the communication. but the reality is that a youngster with a bit of interest in encryption easily sets up communication channels that the govt will never be able to access: so who want to go private, can go private. additionally the volume of communication is so high the govts will have a really hard time to scan us all.

i think the govt will at some point understand that they cannot (very specific cases aside) effectily spy on us anymore, it is simply too expensive.

Re:snail mail ... telephony ... interenet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436316)

i think the govt will at some point understand that they cannot (very specific cases aside) effectily spy on us anymore, it is simply too expensive.

I've interviewed with many companies that are now doing DPI and even SSL MitM attacks. Lots of really scary things - and they have "hardware assist", too.

It's not hard to capture data or even write triggers to capture more and more data. It's built into the sales contracts from governments to various high and mid end equipment vendors. Trust me even though I'm posting as a/c.

The barrier is encryption. If you communicate in plaintext, it's capturable right now by pretty much anyone who controls ingress/egress points. But if you encrypt it's a lot harder and can't be done (right now) realtime. So yes, its "too expensive" if you encrypt. If you don't then it's not at all expensive!

This is why they want to outlaw encryption. They currently can and do sniff and they like having that power.

Chance of actually happening = Zero (1)

Danathar (267989) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435798)

Given the amount of money flowing in and out of India that is a result of VPN's, skype and google I seriously doubt this will happen.

RIM is one thing. Skype and Google quite another. You might as well pass a law requiring that everybody in India stop using Windows. Not gunna happen.

Skype already complys with govt warrents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435810)

I don't see how they can comply without turning over the encryption algorithms? Skype, Google and corporate VPN's have end to end encryption that cannot just be eavesdropped by telcos, or even the NSA; at least that is what is known, yet they are proprietary and possibly contain backdoors.

Skype is rumored to have 256-bit long encryption keys, so good luck with brute force! "Skype’s chief security officer Kurt Sauer tells Svensson that there are no "back doors" that could let a government pass the encryption on a call. He does add, however, that the company complies with all government requests in this area.", according to Russell Shaw of zdnet.

Please do the.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435818)

Kindly needful thing and send me all your certificates....

What's next? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435852)

Maybe India wanna access to my pants too? Or your Pants? I am beginning to think of implementing some security encrypted protocol there......

Feel Good Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435876)

Bush Fucked the constitution of US like nobody elses business. The fuckers on /. obviously having bad opinion due to Indians taking over their entitled job will have field day here. Frankly, they are stating publicly about their policy. In US we have back door entry for all these kind of things. So even though I dont like what is being done, better than hacking my info without my knowledge.

Just because you want.... (2, Insightful)

Lokinator (181216) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435886)

Shouldn't mean you will necessarily get. Certainly if I were subject to EU or even the lower US privacy standards, I'd have grave concerns about out-sourcing *anything* to a locale that so cavalierly violated the most rudimentary notions of privacy and security. More pro-actively, to the extent a mere slashdot-peon can, I'd encourage RIM to go back to their pre-agreement stance and begin negotiations with other telecommunications providers and ex-pat companies with an India presence to present a united front at both the political and technical levels - implementing further and hardened security and privacy measures rather than undermining the often-minimal security in place today.

Governments are like puppies. They keep crapping in the middle of the floor until you rub their nose in it a few times.

Going too far, BUT... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435894)

I'd say that if the Government gets access to ALL kinds of data without a warrant, they're crossing the line. And Indian civil society is not going to take it, the Govt. will have to roll it back before long - so no one needs to get their panties in a bunch about communication monitoring. It isn't going to happen.

But I really wonder how SO many morons have gathered on one page, all cribbing about outsourcing! Well, keep your fond hopes to yourselves - just like communications monitoring isn't going to happen, outsourcing isn't going to stop either.

Re:Going too far, BUT... (4, Insightful)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436332)

And Indian civil society is not going to take it

Sure they will.

Over the past ten years the government of the USA has eroded the civil rights in your nation, and the citizens by and large have said "meh" and gone back to watching Kate Gosselin on "Dancing with the Stars." Why should India be any different?

Risk guy (1)

stimuli_ii (1266556) | more than 4 years ago | (#33435940)

My Corporate Risk guy just shot coffee through his nose I'm sure.

what are people whining about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33435982)

The NSA does all of this already doesnt it?

Anonymous (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436064)

I am an Indian and I wish my govt stopped this kind of pointless crap. I mean people get killed in broad daylight and people responsible are rarely brought to justice, and also guilty terrorists like Kasab have years long case and leaving all that the mostly semi literate idiots sitting in Lok Sabha decide that they need to see what I am mailing. No thanks.
BTW if somebody actually reads my post, try googling how many of India's MP's have criminal records, you will be surprised.

BBC article is better... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436068)

BBC Article [bbc.co.uk] is better, but still awfully short.

Google and Skype could be hit by India data curbs

India has toughened its scrutiny of telecoms firms with a directive demanding "access to everything".

An Indian Home Ministry official told the BBC that "any company with a telecoms network should be accessible".

"It could be Google or Skype, but anyone operating in India will have to provide data," he said.

The move follows high-profile talks with Blackberry maker Research in Motion about ways to allow Indian security forces to monitor data.

The government is also likely to target virtual private networks, which give secure access to company networks for employees working away from their offices.

To-do list

Some have speculated that the Indian government's new focus on its snooping powers is down to increased fears of terrorism.

Carsten Casper, a research director at analyst firm Gartner thinks it more likely that the government is simply "working its way down the to-do list".

"It is based on the ICT Act of 2000 which was revised in 2008. This is about interpreting that act and offering guidance to companies. It is one thing to have a law, but companies don't know how to configure their systems and these are more specific rules," he said.

The tightening of the rules is likely to affect Google, which uses powerful encryption in its Gmail service, and internet telecom service Skype.

"Skype has a similar issue to Blackberry, in so far as it uses a proprietary protocol and no-one knows what is under the hood," said Mr Casper.

A Google spokesman told the BBC it had not yet received any communication from the government.

RIM has been given 60 days to come up with a way to open up its data to Indian law enforcement authorities.

It has been reported that it is proposing setting up a server in India as part of the solution.

But Blackberry said that locating its servers locally would make no difference.

"All data remains encrypted at all times," it said. "Locating Blackberry infrastructure in a particular geography does not in any way aid or offer access to the encrypted information that flows through the Blackberry infrastructure."

The decision to delay the ban in India could be linked to the hosting of the Commonwealth Games in Delhi in October.

Blackberries are widely used in the country, with 1.1 million customers, and a ban could cause serious communication problems during the games.

I wouldn't take this seriously (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33436156)

Firstly, TFA links to USA today, which attributes the tabloid-ish Times of India, which quotes anonymous officials.

Secondly, It's not logical that India will piss off Google and MNCs considering the investments they's pouring in.

It's more likely they'll ask for help and work something out that balances security and privacy concerns.

No (1)

Iburnaga (1089755) | more than 4 years ago | (#33436168)

No, what's wrong with them they can't touch my data. I keep very incriminating things in there.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?