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VISA Pulls Plug On ePassporte, Porn Webmasters

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the in-related-news-apparently-people-pay-for-porn dept.

The Almighty Buck 124

tsu doh nimh writes "Credit card giant VISA International has suspended its business with ePassporte, an Internet payment system widely used to pay adult Webmasters and a raft of other affiliate programs. A number of adult Webmaster forums are up in arms over the move because many of their funds are now stranded. Visa has been silent on the issue so far, but KrebsOnSecurity.com points to an e-mail from ePassporte founder Christopher Mallick saying the unexpected move by Visa wouldn't strand customers indefinitely. Mallick co-directed Middle Men, a Paramount film released in August that tells the story of his experience building one of the world's first porn site payment processing firms, as well as the Russian mobsters, porn stars and FBI agents he ran into along the way. Interestingly, the speculation so far is that Visa cut ties with ePassporte due to new anti-money laundering restrictions in the Credit Card Act of 2009, which affects prepaid cards and other payment card instruments that can be reloaded with funds at places other than financial institutions."

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124 comments

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now (2, Insightful)

chronoss2010 (1825454) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469644)

now a lot of americans( that aren't lawyers) that cant act or sing are gonna be unemployed

Good! Affiliate marketing should die. (1, Troll)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470388)

and a raft of other affiliate programs

It's the source of a lot of click fraud, clickjacking attacks, spam, doorway page websites, etc.

I blame it on Amazon, who first pushed this as a way for ordinary people to "monetize their web site" back in the early 90s.

Re:Good! Affiliate marketing should die. (1)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470660)

Do you seriously think this restriction by VISA will stop all the attacks you mentioned? I highly doubt it. It's just forced porn sites and the like to use processing companies that they haven't built a relationship with yet.

Aside from this, who uses pay for porn sites?

Re:Good! Affiliate marketing should die. (1)

Xaositecte (897197) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472272)

the same sort of people who seriously think they can get a part of some Nigerian Prince's fortune, or buy penis enlargement.

Re:Good! Affiliate marketing should die. (2, Informative)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470744)

I blame it on Amazon, who first pushed this as a way for ordinary people to "monetize their web site" back in the early 90s.

I assume you mean the late 90s or early 2000s; the web was launched in 1990, but it wasn't until around 1994 that it started taking off (with very little commercialism at that time), and Amazon themselves didn't launch until '95!

Re:Good! Affiliate marketing should die. (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472058)

In 95 they were already doing affiliate marketing. One of my friends mentioned it and I said "That is stupid. You only get paid if you make a sale, but you're supplying the bandwidth, etc. And if someone goes back to the site afterwards instaed of passing through you, you get nothing."

Today. people hijack the persistent cookies so that they get credit even if you were the first one that sent a particular person to Amazon. Very profitable for the scammers, not so much for everyone else.

It's a suckers model. You don't see advertising companies (newspapers, billboards, direct mail, radio, tv) offering the same deal to advertisers. They say "you pay to advertise. The effectiveness is your problem - if your product sucks or your ad campaign is poorly implemented, that's your responsibility."

Re:Good! Affiliate marketing should die. (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473130)

Today. people hijack the persistent cookies so that they get credit even if you were the first one that sent a particular person to Amazon.

Yes, because ever since person X got to Amazon through my site back in '95, ALL purchases that person ever makes in his entire live should be credited to me.

haha, hilarious post summary. (1)

abhishekupadhya (1228010) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469694)

This movie, I've to watch.

outrageous (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469696)

Won't someone please think of the poor pornographers?

Re:outrageous (4, Insightful)

snookerhog (1835110) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469764)

exactly. if it weren't for them, we would have no internet

Re:outrageous (1, Flamebait)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470012)

Funny how we had internet before porn. The internet existed first (pure text), and porn didn't join the party until the mid-90s when the graphical web was taking off.
.

Re:outrageous (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470048)

It's cute how your name is commodore64_love and you think that there was no porn on the internet until the world wide web went graphical. I must have been imagining all those a.b.p.e. groups.

Re:outrageous (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470670)

He is probably just thinking back to 93. When AOL allowed him to look [wikipedia.org] at the interwebtubes.

Re:outrageous (2, Informative)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470772)

It's cute how your name is commodore64_love and you think that there was no porn on the internet until the world wide web went graphical.

Most people who grew up with 8-bit computers didn't have access to modems or online services, let alone the Internet, some weird academic thing until circa the mid-90s, which most of us had never even heard of.

That said, I do remember downloading porn from text-based bulletin boards when I first got on the net circa 1994....

Re:outrageous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33471066)

Had it back into '92. I know because it was one of the few things I tried searching for besides copies of Door Games when I was allowed mostly unhindered access to BBSes via my *2400 BAUD* modem when I was a kid (Bought for the whopping price of 19.99 at a swap meet. I loved that thing, even if it was a dog, and it served me all the way through the internet era. Ever tried running linux, multitasking running a MUD and playing on another, ALL OVER A 2400 baud PPP connection?!?! Yeah, that was pretty cool. Now we're all spoiled with 3rd world DSL, or 1st world cable/fiber internet and wonder why everything takes so long to download, when we used to be happy if that 500k file would download in under 30 minutes!)

Kinda makes you wish back for the days when code/data size were something to be thought about, instead of 'The computers will run it by the time we finish it.' :D

Re:outrageous (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472206)

Compuserve. online at 300 baud in 1982.

Yes, in my dad's basement.

Re:outrageous (4, Informative)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470060)

I bet there were dirty stories and FTP servers housing content before the Web was even a fully-realized thought. Long before.

Re:outrageous (3, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470286)

I bet there were dirty stories and FTP servers housing content before the Web was even a fully-realized thought. Long before.

No need to bet, I will testify. ASCII porn doesn't really count, but there were plenty of x-rated gifs (and other now mostly forgotten formats like .pic and .pcx).

Yes, back in the day we had to spend half an hour to download a single image but the waiting made it that much sweeeter.

Re:outrageous (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470320)

Once videos came out I remember waiting longer than that.

Re:outrageous (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470422)

try .img

Re:outrageous (1)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471264)

Yes, back in the day we had to spend half an hour to download a single image but the waiting made it that much sweeeter.

Yep, especially if just seeing her eyes/face/neck was enough; then you could let the download complete in the background while cleaning, and be one of the first in computing history to truly multitask!

Re:outrageous (1)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471324)

And a further thought: what if on some other world, private parts are placed at the top of the organism (perhaps the ground contains a lot more virulence than on our planet). Then, they wouldn't have to wait at all! (I had a similar thought in college, about having eyes on our feet, and the world would then seem to be much more in motion than it currently is. Hi to complex fish of some sort, big Hawaiian guy, jailbait follower, and ... oh yeah, knife lover who I had to bail out. Of jail, that is, not his leaky little boat.)

Re:outrageous (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471580)

Hi to complex fish of some sort, big Hawaiian guy, jailbait follower, and ... oh yeah, knife lover who I had to bail out. Of jail, that is, not his leaky little boat.)

Dude, step back from the bong and call a doctor, you may have inhaled a lethal dose.

Re:outrageous (1)

wiredlogic (135348) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472292)

but the waiting made it that much sweeeter.

Of course, progressive display with GIF's interlacing feature helped ease the suspense :)

Re:outrageous (1)

KimmoS (1448215) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470880)

I bet there were dirty stories and FTP servers housing content before the Web was even a fully-realized thought. Long before.

Perhaps not FTP servers, but BBS systems (dial-up, like 2400-14400bps) were a major source of adult entertainment before "the Web".

"Long before", yeah ok, I would say "Just before" but that's relative.

Re:outrageous (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470954)

The alt.binaries newsgroups were active (And spam-ridden) long before your average person even knew he wanted a computer in his house, and BBSes (A primitive sort of one-server internet that you called on something called a "land line" and then carved the bits out of stone for the remote computer) were popular in about the same time-frame.

Re:outrageous (4, Informative)

Lythrdskynrd (1823332) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471462)

and boobies before that...

( . )( . )

Re:outrageous (1)

stevencheng (1893444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472864)

preform mould [chinaplasticmold.net]

Re:outrageous (1, Informative)

boristdog (133725) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470068)

Funny how we had internet before porn. The internet existed first (pure text), and porn didn't join the party until the mid-90s when the graphical web was taking off.

Ah, you poor, poor deluded soul.

You sound like someone who never downloaded ascii porn in the 1980's.

At 300 baud.

Re:outrageous (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470958)

300 Baud... Try 110!
Also, get off my lawn!

Re:outrageous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470210)

No porn on the 'net until the mid-'90s? Are you on fucking CRACK? I suppose I imagined all those BBSes from the 80s then...

Here's some free education for you: Amateur Action ... McHenry BBS... look 'em up.

Re:outrageous (0, Redundant)

Mike Buddha (10734) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470360)

Tiny baby, we were trading porn on BBSs way before the mass of humanity was allowed to use the interwebs. GOML!

Re:outrageous (2, Informative)

Minion of Eris (1574569) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470432)

Re:outrageous (2, Informative)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470540)

he internet existed first (pure text), and porn didn't join the party until the mid-90s when the graphical web was taking off.

I was downloading porn from usenet newsgroups starting in 1987. Sure, there was no snazzy Windows GUI and it was all uuencoded text that I had to decode into pictures. But in 1987 that was pretty cool and exciting.

Re:outrageous (2, Informative)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470678)

You do realize that the packets used for the most basic ping test are a few bits of an image of a topless pin up model, right?

Porn joined the internet party in the form of BBS's before the internet was even the internet. I have a record of the file transfer of a single playboy playmate image from 1987. Its the first porno I have a record of on the internet(what was the internet at the time), I keep it for nostalgic purposes, plus she's hot.

There is also a very good argument to be made that the internet would have taken a lot longer to go graphical at all if it wasn't for porn.

Also, didn't someone find ascii porn on like the second Univac system ever built?

Re:outrageous (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470872)

I wouldn't be surprised if there was porn via TTY before the first BBSes or AlterNet for that matter...

Re:outrageous (1)

Sheen (1180801) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472768)

do you have a site where i can read more about the packets used for ping, and link to the image?
Thanks :)

Re:outrageous (1)

Mike Buddha (10734) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470374)

They single-handedly saved Javascript.

Re:outrageous (1)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469922)

Children think about them all the time. Wrap your head around THAT one :)

Well duh (3, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469698)

You make a movie that publicly flaunts that you were/are involved with mobsters (whether real or fictional), then wonder why legitimate businesses start backing away?

Re:Well duh (4, Informative)

Peeteriz (821290) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469732)

Given the money that's there to be made, the legitimate business starts backing away only when the law requires to do so (TFA, new credit card act), involvement with mafia doesn't matter as long as Visa can legally pretend not to see it.

Re:Well duh (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470034)

I agree Visa probably still wants the business. Mostly likely they'll patch up the issue with cash reloads (or whatever it is) that makes them attractive for money laundering and then be back to business as usual, which is fine.

That explanes it (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469726)

I thought my Visa card was over its limit.
Thanks the porn gods for Mastercard.

Re:That explanes it (2, Funny)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470302)

Master(bation)Card

Re:That explanes it (1)

GrumblyStuff (870046) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472944)

So is it like a license or one of those 'Buy 10 subs, Get 1 free!" deals or what?

Who the hell pays for pr0n? (2, Insightful)

Braintrust (449843) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469766)

Is there anything easier to find for free online?

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33469912)

I ask myself a similar question, who pays for all the new porn that is professionally made

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470868)

Actually I think they'll end up going like MyFreePaysite.com (purposely not linking as it'll get /.ed and I give that site the my "must have teh prons!" clients) where you can have all the professional porn you want for free, and they pay for it by ads for camsites, lubes and toys, etc.

sadly the *.A.As can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact their 80s business model is dead, but sites like MyFreePaysite can find ways to monetize free just fine. In this case the content (the porn) is the lure to hopefully sell you that fleshlight/vibrator/camwhore that you WILL pay money for. Makes sense to me and it helps keep my more clueless porn surfing users from going to the more virus laden parts of the Internet. oh and in case anyone is wondering they have several video sites affiliated, with everything from 300k .ASF and .FLV all the way up to 1600k H.264 .AVIs, so formatting or picture quality isn't a problem.

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33469982)

Why would you go and say that out loud? Those who somehow don't already know where to get it free are subsidizing us. Somebody has to pay for it, or all we'll get is amateur porn.
 
...upon further reflection, I don't really have a problem with that. Nevermind, carry on.

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470036)

There's porn, and then then there's art (professional photography). I pay for at least one site simply because it's quality is better than the free stuff.
.

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (3, Informative)

jpapon (1877296) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470106)

I pay for at least one site simply because it's quality is better than the free stuff.

I mean, I can appreciate production value as much as the next guy, but I'll take the hit & miss of sites like burningcamel.com, keezmovies.com, and so on before I make the mistake of giving my credit card to a porn site again. Those guys are almost universally crooks who will keep charging you until you just cancel your card and get a new number.

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (2, Informative)

JustOK (667959) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470504)

hence, one use of prepaid cards...

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33471824)

Hmmmm, Can you name a few more examples? ...You know, for a paper I'm writing for...college. Yes.

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33472196)

It's probably a bad idea to give your real credit card number to any internet retailer. NewEgg has mine (Amazon might, too), but everyone else gets a virtual credit card number that expires in 2 months (could be 1 month if you really expect them to charge an unasked for monthly fee).

That said, this article just highlights yet another reason why the US credit card validation system is horribly broken. Optimally, the credit card should be a smart card and should require a smart card reader to charge. Or maybe a manual login to your bank's website. The fact that the information they store is enough to charge your card is ridiculous.

Re:Who the hell pays for pr0n? (1)

cervo (626632) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472842)

Well some bill paying companies are independent of the porn sites. Guys like verotel, ccbill, etc... Which are big payment companies with account management/cancel options as part of the payment processor. So you can just login and cancel your subscription without a hassle.

It's like anything else. I generally stick to guys like Amazon, etc. when using my credit card on the internet, or even paypal. As opposed to Joe's cheap cheap cheap electronics, serial number not included.....

no worries... (4, Informative)

Kristopeit, Michael (1892492) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469790)

i was pissed when paypal did this to me in 2000... so i switched to neteller, then i was pissed when neteller did it to me in 2006, then i switched to epassporte, now i'll switch to one of the other major providers... most support the "pulse" network instead of visa or mastercard, and almost every ATM works with pulse.

nothing to see here except visa losing out on a lot of business because they let the government dictate how they do legal business in the name of stopping potential crime.

shame on you visa. you are pathetic.

Re:no worries... (-1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469846)

almost every ATM works with pulse

Really? I've never even heard of "pulse" before.

Re:no worries... (0, Flamebait)

Kristopeit, Michael (1892492) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469908)

then it must not exist, right?

you're an idiot.

Re:no worries... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470028)

you did not parse is response correctly,to me it was a truthful interrogation

Re:no worries... (2, Funny)

Kristopeit, Michael (1892492) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470074)

did you do anything correctly in your response?

you too are an idiot.

Re:no worries... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470684)

Just because Pulse exists doesn't mean that almost every ATM works with it. There's ATMs outside of the USA, you know.

You're the idiot.

Re:no worries... (0, Troll)

Kristopeit, Michael (1892492) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470710)

why would i care about anything outside the USA, especially when a USA law is what is causing these companies to break ties?

pulse is international...

you are NOTHING

Re:no worries... (1)

fusiongyro (55524) | more than 3 years ago | (#33469978)

Look on the back of all your ATM cards. I bet you have one with the Pulse logo.

Re:no worries... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470022)

Ha, ha! You lose! Only NYCE.

Re:no worries... (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470248)

I haven't seen Pulse on any of my cards in years.

Re:no worries... (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470454)

Used to be about 9 logos on the back of one of my cards. Now I just assume the one or two that are there are the ones still willing to pay for the space. There's still a raft of stickers on the ATMs.

Re:no worries... (1)

jcrousedotcom (999175) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470518)

I just looked at the back of my Bank of America Visa logo'd Debit ATM card and I have a Pulse logo. BoA is one of the larger (largest?) banks in the US... I would think many others would carry that logo as well?

Re:no worries... (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470698)

I got "Interac", "Plus" and "NYCE" logos. I don't recall ever seeing the NYCE logo on any ATM either. The Interac logo, on the other hand, is everywhere I go.

Re:no worries... (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470342)

Uhh. Visa is trying to obey the law. If they don't then they will probably get fined. If they don't pay it then they will have the Sheriff or Feds seizing stuff from them.

Re:no worries... (1)

Kristopeit, Michael (1892492) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470498)

uhh... disrupting free legal trade shouldn't be something the feds can force on anyone. visa laid down like a bitch.

Re:no worries... (1)

Firehed (942385) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470882)

Fined? Violation of AML laws can result in arrest, with some pretty severe punishments. Same with failure to follow the Know-Your-Customer guidelines. Anti-terrorism, and all that.

Re:no worries... (1)

Antisyzygy (1495469) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470938)

I wasn't sure what the consequence was, but my point was its in the interest of a company like Visa to obey the law if they want to stay in business long term.

Re:no worries... (5, Informative)

Rophuine (946411) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471868)

I was a software engineer working in a company which had a similar thing done to it by MasterCard (MC from here on). The circumstances may be similar or vastly different, but the program which triggered it was used mainly by online gambling services, and we provided customers with Maestro/Cirrus branded MCs.

The product was ostensibly a prepaid debit card for travellers. The melt-down started when an MC official at an international event received marketing material for the card, and called the help-desk. He was told all about the benefits of the card, including the ‘special’ benefits like being able to load gambling winnings onto it and then withdraw them as cash from US ATMs (I should stress that this was a program operated by our client, not by us; we were just the platform.)

It turns out that this is money-laundering. You just aren’t allowed to market that. So our client (who operated the program) was investigated, and then we (who owned the payment platform) were also investigated. While a handful of people were using the program legitimately, the vast majority were using it for its ‘special’ benefits. MC also found that we should have known about it, and we’d failed to do correct due diligence. The program was shut down immediately, and all cards were de-activated, as its primary purpose was to facilitate money-laundering (we received two hours’ warning, and I had a federal police officer standing behind me while I signed in and deactivated the card range). We lost our licence to access the MC network, and MC gave us 30 days to notify customers of legitimate programs and disconnect. We were successful in getting a court order extending this to 180 days.

MC has strict risk guidelines on this sort of thing. The integrity of the network is paramount: illegal money flows are targeted and stamped out vehemently. They would rather risk disconnecting thousands of legitimate cards than risk losing trust in a network which provides for billions of them.

The real problem is that it’s all private enterprise. Our contract with MC gave them all of these powers: if you don’t want to let MC have this sort of power over you, you don’t use their network. There is no right of appeal, especially for international partners (the court’s authority to even grant the time extension for our genuine legal programs was tenuous, and was only enforceable due to MC wanting to be nice to another party in the chain who was subject to Australian law).

I hope this is interesting information. If you want to know how the story ends, join the club: it’s still going. Perhaps you can visit David Tzvetkoff in a US prison and ask him if he knows.

I suppose what it really gets back to is that VISA is probably not doing this to comply with laws. They know that the best money for an organisation their size is to be made in massive, highly-trusted networks which are beyond reproach. They kick anyone off who might give them any kind of a smudge. Not just pr0n, obviously, I'm talking about money-laundering-style smudges. Which is not, of course, to say that this is what ePassporte was doing: there was neither trial nor opportunity to defend when MC came after us. It was "we're on our way, be ready to turn them off in front of a federal police officer when we arrive." They didn't have to prove that our client was doing anything wrong. They didn't have to prove that we should have known about it. They just decided that they were satisfied, end of story. We only got the extension from the court because they found that MC hadn't met the requirements under the contract to terminate with 30 days notice, and they had to fall back to the "we can kick you off just because we don't like the brand of office chairs you buy" 180 days.

Re:no worries... (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472316)

shame on you visa. you are pathetic.

Don't you mean "Shame on you Mr. President and US Congress. You are pathetic."

I mean, it only seems fair, since the only reason VISA is doing this is the anti-laundering provisions in the Credit Card Act of 2009. Do you think VISA wants to stop making money or something?

P.S.: If you can bother to hit the shift key for ATM, why can't you bother to hit it for the first letter in every sentence? It isn't hard, and you'll come off as less immature if you do. Just saying.

Speaking as a former dating site peon... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33469816)

This kind of thing happens all the time for companies handling payment processing for adult sites. IIRC Chargeback rates tend to be pretty bad, and made worse by actual billing scams on the seedier sites; so while they're lucrative customers for the banks, they're also prone to falling foul of regulatory limits and having their merchant accounts suspended. The movie tie-in is probably the only reason this is considered newsworthy.

It's safe to say.... (1)

kenrblan (1388237) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470246)

It's safe to say this isn't the first time porn webmasters have seen a plug pulled.

"Adult"? (0, Troll)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470292)

So if I'm an adult, and I'm a webmaster, how does this affect me? Stop abusing this word.

I'm drinking without drinking alcohol.
I'm gaming without gambling.
My adult media content is not adolescent gratuitousness, but challenging and informative content that requires some life experience to appreciate.
My adult language is educated and domain terminology that children might not understand yet.

Re:"Adult"? (2, Insightful)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470356)

fuck that, i'm having a scotch and playing poker with nude women.

Re:"Adult"? (1)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470522)

Thank you! Now, if others would follow suit in actually speaking directly like that, the world would be that little bit of a better place. :)

Re:"Adult"? (1)

Mike Buddha (10734) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470400)

I'm drinking without drinking alcohol.
I'm gaming without gambling.
My adult media content is not adolescent gratuitousness, but challenging and informative content that requires some life experience to appreciate.
My adult language is educated and domain terminology that children might not understand yet.

Ooh, is this a riddle? Lemme guess: you're a troll!

Re:"Adult"? (1)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470548)

Nah, just whining a bit. It's a real irritation when your innocuous actions fit a misappropriated label.

Legislature makes jurisdiction by defenition. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33471522)

They create the definitions for those words when they are used as "terms" in a contract.

It sucks, they re-define words for a certain premise that does more to aid prosecution or default a
party to maintain the dispute rather than anything helpful.

All of it is admiralty in commerce clauses when you restrictively endorse their wrath against the people.

Also, poker. (1)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470336)

And not in the rear.

While I haven't played online poker for money in several years, I know that I had to switch to ePassporte at one point because Neteller was longer supported in the US.

For some reason, I highly doubt that this move by Visa was solely because of Porn. And now I'm seeing from Poker Stars that ePassporte is no longer an option, I have no idea when this happened.

Shame, too, as I have a lot of tuition to pay for and was thinking about getting back into it to help pay for all the money I would otherwise have to create via alchemy. (And yes, I have a job, work 30-50 hours a week, pay rent, and all that other good stuff).

Re:Also, poker. (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470462)

Alchemy?

Student loans stopped existing?

Re:Also, poker. (1)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470604)

Well, thanks to University of Phoenix, I might not have access to my loan until Spring. I withdrew from there to enroll at a good school, and was informed that there was a conflict with the dates and moving my aid from one school to another.

Phoenix told me when I withdrew that I would have to pay for those classes out of pocket, which I decided to just bite the bullet on since I wanted out ASAP. However, they subsequently proceeded to use my aid money to pay for them anyway.

I'm working on fixing the situation, but am planning on having a bake sale to raise funds for the 2010 Fall semester.

Re:Also, poker. (1)

multipartmixed (163409) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471160)

Put me down for a cookie.

Re:Also, poker. (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471590)

Hmm.

They had no right to use one of those sets of funds, but they did anyway. Conversion. It's like theft except that they had a right to possess the property temporarily, just not to use it for what they used it for.

Should take about 5 minutes to fix. Call UoP, ask for whatever they call their Director of Financial Aid and Ancilliary Frauds, and tell him you're calling the state A.G.'s office if they don't have a check in your hand by the end of the week. Then if they don't, call the state A.G.'s office.

They may squawk that it's an administrative mistake that will take time to correct, but you should say so what, that's their problem and they need to put your money into your hand now and work out their internal account balancing on their own time.

Re:Also, poker. (1)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471712)

Thanks. I just found out about this last week, and have been working with both schools to fix it. I was requested by Regis to get a signed letter from Phoenix saying they cancelled the funds. After a couple hours and back and forth phone calls between the different departments (that kept pushing the onus onto other depts) they said I would have my letter in 24-48 hours. A week went by and still no letter, so I called them again and had it by the end of the day.

The funniest part, is that I keep getting spam from Phoenix asking me to sign a petition. Here's some text:

Today I'm writing to ask you to take a simple but important step in making sure the voices of our university community are heard.

Please sign this petition asking President Obama to protect access to higher education for all students in the nation.

As you may know, some leaders in Washington are proposing regulations that could affect our university and restrict students' options within higher education. I want to make sure that the national conversation about University of Phoenix includes the voices of the people who know it best -- hardworking students like you.

Regulations could prevent students at for-profit schools like University of Phoenix -- and only schools like ours -- from having the same access to grants and student loans as traditional universities. Under these new rules, students could still get aid for community colleges, state schools, and private universities -- schools that don't all share our philosophy that everyone deserves the opportunity to go to college.

As you know better than anyone, if our students can't have equal access to student loans, that's going to block hundreds of thousands of Americans from getting the college education they need and deserve to get ahead in their jobs or find even better jobs.

Please sign this petition to President Obama, asking him to protect access to higher education for all students, especially working adults from diverse backgrounds like so many of our students. Join thousands of students, alumni, staff, and faculty who are speaking out about the value of their education at University of Phoenix and the critical role that it is playing in your current career or in the career you intend to pursue.

I am considering starting an active petition to oppose this one. It's such utter bullshit and this proposed legislation is actually giving me a reason to support Obama, who I'm not a big fan of otherwise. I will also hand $10 to anyone I meet that is considering going to UoPx if they agree to not attend and choose something else.

I thought .... (0, Troll)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470416)

... paying to have your plug pulled was against the law.

Just something to think about (4, Insightful)

hellfire (86129) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470472)

We had a customer recently who we sold credit card software to. We sell this software to many varying businesses. They are a legitimate business, they just happen to distribute adult DVDs. However, they lied on their form on their merchant bank, and the bank found out and cut them off, and they were unable process cards. After this dramatic happenstance, they then turn around and shopped around for a new merchant bank, but could not, because of the very reason they lied in the first place... because they were worried that if they told the truth no one would take them on.

Now it wasn't right to lie, but they didn't lie in order to launder money, they lied because they would not be taken as a serious business otherwise, and I don't know about you but I think they have that right to be taken seriously. They were let go because banks are adverse to taking a risk on any type of business like this simply in name only. Sure, there are plenty of criminal organizations dealing in porn, but there are plenty of legitimate ones too. Human beings, especially Americans, overreact to porn and sex and try to marginalize it as something demonic. When you marginalize it, you get a group of people who are willing to work with it with varying levels of morals outside of the normal. Mostly you get two kinds of people, those who think porn is perfectly acceptable, and those who think anything including criminal activity is acceptable as long as it makes money. Then less than moral companies sprout up to help the immoral and moral alike deal with this kind of business, you get moral groups popping up saying "See! porn is bad! look at all the criminal activity it breeds!" and you continue the vicious cycle.

So because banks are scared of the adult industry in general because we marginalize it, and by marginalizing it we make it prone to criminal behavior and banks don't want to take the chance, legitimate or not, so we end up with bullshit like this, businesses that are guilty by association and nothing else.

Morality... meh.

Re:Just something to think about (1)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 3 years ago | (#33471370)

So because banks are scared of the adult industry in general because we marginalize it, and by marginalizing it we make it prone to criminal behavior and banks don't want to take the chance, legitimate or not, so we end up with bullshit like this, businesses that are guilty by association and nothing else.

I'm sorry, your conclusion is flat-out wrong. You had a customer who committed fraud, was found out about their fraud, and was then not allowed to commit the same level of fraud in the future. This has nothing to do with porn or morality: it has to do with the actions of your customer, who decided that speaking fraudulently was preferable to being honest.

I think the reaction to your customer's decision is appropriate.

Re:Just something to think about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33472416)

So change the name use a third company to charge ie subsidy or some other bs to get around it

Re:Just something to think about (1)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472568)

You used "morality" and "bank" in the same context.

Are you sure the porn industry doesn't have something like a higher credit card purchasing fraud rate by its customers, which makes servicing their accounts unprofitable?

Nope, not surprising (4, Interesting)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 3 years ago | (#33470554)

These new 'money-laundering' rules are going to impact merchants and processors significantly. Visa is probably happy to be rid of a business with massive fraud, payment issues, and scams on every corner.

Next up will be gambling sites, mostly the poker sites which in general should be burnt off the Web for the faurds they commit, not to mention the money-laundering potential. Imagine watching user A play like a fool and lose $100k to user B, knowing all along this is the equivalent of wiring the money to user B and suffering the house's rake as cost of shuffling the funds. This is an international problem, and the only thing that stops this from happening more is that 'legitimate' poker sites do everything to keep you from actually receiving your winnings. A poker site built to facilitate laundering wouldn't bother with that nonsense, but it would discourage players other than the intended 'clientele' from playing big-stakes games (probably by using a buy-in or premium membership to keep the riffraff out) and thereby preventing unexpected players from receiving funds expected to just be 'won' by the laundering destination.

Amazingly creative these people are. The 'legitimate' poker sites rake enough, and of course are mostly pure scams, with bots hammering on live players and some people making money a few bucks at a time. The fraud and disputes are rampant, and most processors want nothing to do with this business, so they have holdbacks and huge discount rates and fees if they bother at all. Being offshore makes matters worse, and users in the U.S. for instance will have no help from anybody collecting their winnings, so they often dispute their membership fees and such, with the predictable result that the site essentially survives by scamming its users while the users are scamming each other. There is no good in online poker. None.

This is one of the darker corners of the Web. These 'money-laundering' rules will impact these businesses a lot.

And, of course, these rules will also aid in collecting taxes. The IRS is in the midst of implementing rules to use credit card processors to provide payment data which is matched to the merchants' tax reporting. If something is wrong, the IRS has the power to garnish the intended credit card payments and deliver them to the business only if they agree that the taxes were collected and all is well. And if there is a problem with the merchant's records, and the processor has some typo or error in the merchant's files, they have to send the money to the IRS and the merchant may^H^H^Hwill wait for an entire quarter to get their money back, less anything the IRS decides to withold. I say 'money-laundering' because a lot of the motivation here by the government is to get more data and get into the payment streams.

Re:Nope, not surprising (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33472282)

What a load of bullshit. Thousands of people make a lot of money online, and you can track them on sites like officialpokerrankings.com or pokertabletatings.com. There are online communities like twoplustwo.com or pocketfives.com where most of the top winners are well known in real life. High end laundering as you describe would be tracked and easily noticed by a large community that follows the "nosebleed" games. It is also (still) very easy to get winnings off, if it wasn't people would stop playing.

"Mostly pure scams"... no evidence, no citations, how on earth did this get +5 insightful.

Re:Nope, not surprising (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 3 years ago | (#33472344)

Amazingly creative these people are.

Ok Yoda, whatever you say.

Free porn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470748)

Yet another reason to not pay for any porn, ever. There is so much free stuff, and going on the hunt for hi-res pics of your favorite model is such a great hobby! (sob)

if you are a cam model... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33470794)

The underground economy of cam models will be hard hit.
Some of those models (the best ones) might earn a couple grand per month.
Mind you some of those models are in the good old USA... as well as ALL over the world.

The pressure will be huge to come up with an alternative payment method that is not as expensive as Western Union or bank transfers. /so I heard from a friend of a friend...

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