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Craigslist Removes Its Controversial Adult Section

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the can't-we-at-least-play-at-being-adults? dept.

Censorship 522

Cyrus writes "The online classified website Craigslist has removed its controversial Adult Services portion of its website. Technology blog TechCrunch was the first to report the section had been blacked out with the word 'Censored.'"

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oh darn (5, Insightful)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473162)

now all the prostitutes will post in casual encounters

Re:oh darn (4, Interesting)

odies (1869886) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473250)

And what's wrong with prostitution anyway? In the end all girls cost money, many times much more than if you just get to the point right away. I'm in Thailand currently and it's all very casual - you go to a bar or gogo bar (not clubs), girls come to talk with you and you order them a few drinks and maybe play a round of billiard and just have good time. If you want to, you can take them to the nearest hotel or take them to your hotel with you for a night. Girls don't mind and sometimes they might even end up dating with you (happens easily as western guys are considered a huge score for a girl here).

In the end its nothing else than again some religious or "I define what people should be allowed to do!" persons trying to limit the fun people can have. If the girl herself wants to do it, there's no "victims". Hell, there are girls who love having a lot of sex and it's even better for them because they get paid for what they love. Other people really have to start living their own lives and stop thinking "I don't do this, so no one else can do it either!".

Re:oh darn (5, Insightful)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473258)

I agree completely and have nothing against prostitution, it's just that this will clog up the casual encounters section for people that aren't looking to pay money for sex. That's why it made much more sense to have a separate section for it.

Re:oh darn (3, Insightful)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473288)

If the girl herself wants to do it, there's no "victims".

Oh, that old argument. [umbc.edu]

Look, there are many good arguments for the legalisation of prostitution per se (even for minors, although the person paying for services would then likely be breaking some statutory rape law).

But it's without foundation to bring up the "lots of women want to do it" argument. And "want to do it", whatever the tedious capitalist he-may-be-interned-in-a-factory-but-at-least-he's-not-dying-in-the-fields armchair philosophers will tell you, must not be confused with "is desperate for money and willing to do it because there is no viable alternative". I have not read any evidence that a majority of prostitutes work because they enjoy being prostitutes. Have you?

Stop being a "prostitution is no initiation of force therefore it should be legal therefore it is OK" libertard and instead ask "Is it moral in general to pay for prostitutes?" Don't use the exception of the $xE6/year professional dominatrix with a fancy web site living in Hollywood and servicing the stars. Consider the average prostitute.

Re:oh darn (4, Insightful)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473300)

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

I have not read any evidence that a majority of prostitutes^Wfast-food workers work because they enjoy being prostitutes^Wfast-food workers. Have you?

Re:oh darn (3, Insightful)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473352)

I've read through your post 3 or 4 times to try to work out what point you're trying to make. Possibly:

  1. The initial hypothesis was that people may be prostitutes because they enjoy it, perhaps a specific case of the general "all jobs are voluntary so people surely do them because they enjoy them" nonsense. You've given another example of a job which people don't necessarily do because they enjoy, so I guess you're attempting to provide evidence against that hypothesis.
  2. Fast-food work is as physically dangerous, emotionally debilitating,
    unregulated, lacking in any benefits, controlled by highly abusive bosses and as associated with severe social stigma as prostitution.
  3. Fast-food workers across the world are typically as desperate for money as prostitutes.

Re:oh darn (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473378)

the point was, that people do all kinds of things when they are desperate for money, and they aren't illegal. so why single out prostitution as being somehow worse than the other ones? whether or not they *want* to, they are *willing* to in order to make a lot of money in a very short period of time.

Re:oh darn (-1, Flamebait)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473392)

so why single out prostitution as being somehow worse than the other ones?

Point 2. Also point 3.

Sure are a lot of people today defending why they pay for prostitutes! Why doesn't anyone just say, "I don't care about the welfare of the man/woman I'm fucking as long as I get my rocks off"? It would be far more honest than all these hand-wringing arguments about how women (always women...) are likely making a voluntary lucrative career choice.

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473418)

Why don't you just go ahead and start quoting Bible verses? You know you want to, and that's basically what your argument has boiled down to.

Re:oh darn (0, Troll)

ian_from_brisbane (596121) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473448)

I don't care about the welfare of the woman I'm fucking as long as I get my rocks off.

In addition, I don't care about the welfare of the fast-food worker serving me, as long as I get to eat lunch.

Re:oh darn (2, Funny)

JustOK (667959) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473536)

enjoy that special sauce

Re:oh darn (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473460)

How about this simple argument: if person A wants to fuck person B, and person B wants to pay them to do it, who the fuck are you to tell them that they're not allowed to?

Reason prostitution is illegal is State dowry-tax (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473466)

The State wants to collect a tax on a dowry, meaning the dowry is the reserve capital a husband pays to the woman's pimp to "draw" the equivalent value in potential children to inherit and progress the family heritage; the motivation of the State (feudal lords in America have confederated into a title of nobility known as The State since 1776) is to inject currency into the economy to stimulate the region of its invasive migrant as an invested natural body-politic as well as transfer the privilege of drafting such currencies to an ecclesiastical agency to tamper the event as an elymysonary trust-indenture (U.S. Treasury to the Federal Reserve System as estoppel to the U.S. Mint). A prostitute in-effect abates the re-productive nature of the task to a mere pleasure principle, depriving the State of alleged "necessary" revenue in the still-born birth of the foreign corporate sole/soul body-politic, and then commences a transaction on mere "private" entertainment alone without notice to the public domain. In this modern day, the States give bonus to all administrators if their Hospital-births are registered a Department of the Treasury-Social Security form 5 (if I remember correctly) as well as another bonus for the Registered birth certificate on Security Paper presented to the Depository And Trust Company which is the fractionalized from a Direct Treasury Account into the private markets through Federal Reserve System and publicy through the International Monetary Fund.

Truly, prostitution touches so-many aspects of society in religious and governmental provocitation that it is the only anchor to establish priory in averting from the Home-Rule bastards that reduce entire countries through despotism. The greatest rulers on the planet that conquered oppressive governments all were born of Prostitutes. :-)

Re:oh darn (1)

pitchpipe (708843) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473524)

Sure are a lot of people today defending why they pay for prostitutes! Why doesn't anyone just say, "I don't care about the welfare of the man/woman I'm fucking as long as I get my rocks off"? It would be far more honest than all these hand-wringing arguments about how women (always women...) are likely making a voluntary lucrative career choice.

Two strangers meet. They have sex. One walks away $200 richer, the other $200 poorer. Who is the victim? The MAN? Because he's some fuckwad who can't get laid by any normal woman so he has to pay one to have sex with him?

That just doesn't sound right.

Re:oh darn (4, Insightful)

migla (1099771) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473390)

You're kind of right. Being able to hire people who need the money to do a shitty job is exploitation. But there's a big difference in being fucked by the exploiter figuratively and literally. Sex is intimate and can screw with you worse than the boredom and aching feet (or whatever) that flipping burgers entails. There are similarites between prostitution and other kinds of "wage slavery", but the two are generally in different leagues of fuckeduppedness.

Re:oh darn (4, Insightful)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473426)

It'll be interesting to see you justify a single assertion in that post without resorting to religious arguments, or without projecting your own personal moral hangups on the rest of humanity as a whole.

The truth is, prostitution is not a particularly dangerous job when it's kept above-board and regulated by health authorities. This move on Craigslist;s part will instead drive the trade farther underground than it already was.

Re:oh darn (3, Interesting)

Klinky (636952) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473462)

Fastfood work can be just as mentally straining & bad for your body, especially if you're eating where you work because it's cheaper due to your employee discount than fixing food for yourself. If you have anyone else to support or you have flaky hours, you might need another job. Combine the physical nature of the job, the unhealthy environment & food then the mental stress of incompetent or power tripping management, aggressive and selfish customers, anxiety over working so hard yet not having enough money to pay for basic needs & the stigma attached to being a fast-food worker, I could see how it's not a lot better than being a prostitute.

Ultimately it does take a certain mindset to be a prostitute & not all prostitution is equal. Turning tricks under a bridge for $20 so you can go feed your addiction is not the same as someone earning $200 or $300 per visit & does not have an addiction. Also on the outside people will have no clue you're a prostitute, unless you're outed somehow. People will know you work in fast-food and that some how makes you a loser so will be nasty to you while you man the register or they'll heckle you while you're standing at the bus stop after your shift.

In conclusion neither job is healthy.

Re:oh darn (1)

beakerMeep (716990) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473484)

That's not really fair - economic pressure is only one of many coercive elements that could be driving someone to prostitution. Some could be slaves/indentured servants from a foreign country, some probably have language barriers etc. I think the GP's point was that there isn't any evidence proving one way or another how voluntary the 'employment' is. While you have a point, maybe a closer analogy would be undocumented migrant workers. The dizzying intellect thing was kinda over the top.

Re:oh darn (3, Insightful)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473498)

Slavery is already illegal, and should be.

Illegal immigration is already, well, illegal, and there are various arguments either way on whether it should be.

These are both entirely orthogonal to the question of whether prostitution should be legalized.

Re:oh darn (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473534)

That's not really fair - economic pressure is only one of many coercive elements that could be driving someone to prostitution^Wfast-food work.

I think I have this copy/paste rebuttal down. As Man On Pink Corner pointed out, coercing people to do anything be it prostitution or fast-food, is already illegal. You gain nothing (and actually lose something) by making the job itself illegal as well.

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473336)

they could always work at mcdonalds. but they choose to do that instead.

so yeah, it's their choice. there are other jobs, they just don't pay as well. By your logic, nobody would ever do any job, because who really *wants* to haul trash, or clean up shit, or say, "would you like fries with that" 100 times an hour?

Re:oh darn (0, Redundant)

odies (1869886) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473346)

instead ask "Is it moral in general to pay for prostitutes?"

Why wouldn't it be moral? What is immoral about sex? Yes, if you follow bible then you might think it's immoral to have pre-marital sex, but the world is a different place now a day. Most people, at least young, understand that you can have sex just for the pleasure and fun time it gives. And like the other poster noted, a lot of people don't like other kind of shitty jobs either. Should we make flipping burgers or cleaning services illegal too?

Re:oh darn (2, Insightful)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473372)

You've managed to misread my post in so many ways that you may be trolling. Let me break it down like I did to the "other poster":

  1. There was no argument made that sex is immoral. Sex is not the same as paying prostitutes.
  2. There was no argument made that prostitution should be illegal. I pointed out that there are good arguments to make prostitution entirely legal.
  3. Morality and legality are not the same thing. Even insane chain-smoking cult leader Ayn Rand understood this.

Re:oh darn (0, Troll)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473492)

You are obviously reading the "edition" of the bible compiled by puritans according to their own liking aka the King's James Version.

Get the full one. The Inclusive Bible or one of the literal translations. You may change some of your opinions on what the bible considers moral or immoral after reading it.

Prostitution: a moral dilemma (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473364)

All right. You want an analysis. Here you go.

First off, morality:

The morality of any point whatsoever depends on the moral code you choose to follow, whether it is founded in some religion, a personal point of view, or merely what your upbringing has led you to find disgusting or praiseworthy. There you are, now you can answer the question for yourself, but don't expect other people to agree regardless of how fervently you happen to believe the validity of your position. Morality is a matter of opinion.

Second, `without foundation':

It is not without foundation to discuss the desire of women to choose prostitution. In areas where prostitution is legal, and well regulated, many women do choose that career path, even women with substantial other prospects. Even when illegal, there are those who find the career path viable. Read the memoirs of real life prostitutes for examples - there are several published. Would the average geek want to be running the servers of some nameless corporation which abuses his time and energy for less money than the prostitute makes and less working flexibility, or rather run the servers of something he finds enjoyable and valuable? And yet you find us slaving away in service of the almighty dollar. The fact is that people make choices. Some good, some less so. Just because you happen to find those choices repugnant largely suggests that you shouldn't make those choices, and is not a useful comment on the choices of others.

Third, the `libertard' thing:

Congratulations on your creative portmanteau word. Very clever. Since you chose to invoke morality, perhaps you will show some understanding for those who think that the libertarian view is the moral one. The same libertarian view as often championed by the libertarian party, which keeps jabbering about morality in its party platform. (Disclaimer: I think they're silly for doing so precisely because morality is a matter of opinion, but it certainly suggests that someone holds such a moral code dear.)

Fourth, false generalisation:

Pretending that just because some cases of prostitution are by some standards less pleasant than others does not condemn the whole idea. Perhaps different regulations are needed. Perhaps certain kinds should be banned. Perhaps there should be more social workers. Perhaps they all need to find Jesus in their hearts.

I could go on, but really, your thesis needs a lot of work, and the defence more yet. Please have a 5,000 word essay on the false appeal to authority on my desk in the morning.

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473380)

  And I suppose everyone else works just for the fun of it? There may be any honor in it, but like it or not it's how some people choose to make a living.

Re:oh darn (5, Insightful)

fredmosby (545378) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473382)

When people were working in factories under horrible conditions for little pay they didn't solve the problem by making working in factories illegal, the workers unionized and the government passed minimum wage and safety laws. If we banned all the jobs that people only do for money there wouldn't be very many legal jobs.

Re:oh darn (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473388)

I once hired an escort in Arizona, average price, so nothing special. She was very friendly and happy to talk to me. She said she made about 200k a year doing this, had two houses, and could afford to co-rent an apartment for incalls. 200k doesn't sound like a lot but the cost of living in AZ is pretty low. While I'm sure that isn't the norm, and streetwalkers and drug users definitely fit your description, a significant part of prostitution is because it pays better than the alternative (at least the entire escort business).

Re:oh darn (4, Insightful)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473402)

    Have you talked to many escorts to come to this conclusion? It really doesn't sound like it.

    Have you talked to your average worker in a fast food restaurant or big box store? Unless they're just out of high school, they're miserable.

    Stop forcing YOUR morality on others. It's a choice, both by the service provider, and by the customer. One way or another, we're all in the same business. We want something, and we give something for it. So your morality may say that you need to spend money on fancy dinners and expensive trinkets, coming to a climax where a lavish party is thrown because you put a multi-carat diamond on some poor girls finger. It's all down hill from there. Will you cheat on her? Will she divorce you and take half of what you have?

    Prostitution, under it's various names, is far more honest. You negotiate the fee for services rendered, and then you each get what you wanted. Simple. The same concerns apply in the interaction with her, or a girl you met elsewhere. Wear a condom, and keep track of your wallet.

    They made the choice to go into the industry. Their customers made the choice to get services from the industry. It's simple. I've known a few women who work in the industry, and they refuse the option of taking a "normal" job, for a fraction of the pay and losing flexibility with their life. Those of us who work in an office don't get the choice of saying "I have a headache, I don't want to work today", or "I have other things to do, pay me for Saturday night instead." None of them were forced to do it. Very few look back at a "regular" job with any sort of passion for it.

    I won't say that there aren't bad elements in the industry, but if you look at how many corporations work you'll see worse behavior. You have overworked, underpaid disgruntled people wondering if they have a job tomorrow. Will I get fired? Will the company be downsizing? Will the company fold? I've seen a lot of good hard working 9 to 5 people suddenly find themselves without an income, because they came into work, just to find that they didn't have a job any more. Maybe you're independently wealthy, and don't have to worry about such things, but for the rest of the world, we have bills to pay.

    Because of people like you, who have forced your morality on others, it's put these working women in danger. Legalization and acceptance of the industry is the only way to remove the bad elements of the industry.

Re:oh darn (2, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473434)

So your morality may say that you need to spend money on fancy dinners and expensive trinkets, coming to a climax where a lavish party is thrown because you put a multi-carat diamond on some poor girls finger. It's all down hill from there. Will you cheat on her? Will she divorce you and take half of what you have?

Of course, some people mature from their early 20s sex-insanity, realize that sex isn't everything, and then actually love the person they get married to, and have a nice life after that. Not everything in life is a direct result of sex.

This really should be obvious on Slashdot, where half of us would rather code than have sex :)

Re:oh darn (4, Insightful)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473510)

Have you talked to many escorts to come to this conclusion? It really doesn't sound like it.

The "escorts" you're probably thinking of are not representative of the global prostitution industry. I know this is /. and an awful lot of lonely men have paid $200+ for an escort and assume that "talking to an escort" (who you are paying to say what you want to hear) is somehow singular for "data", but it isn't.

Stop forcing YOUR morality on others.

Knee-jerk. Arguing that funding the prostitution industry may be immoral is not forcing anything.

It's a choice, both by the service provider, and by the customer.

All work is free choice to the extent that you also have the options to lie down on the streets and starve or jump off a cliff and die more quickly.

So your morality may say that you need to spend money on fancy dinners and expensive trinkets, coming to a climax where a lavish party is thrown because you put a multi-carat diamond on some poor girls finger. It's all down hill from there. Will you cheat on her? Will she divorce you and take half of what you have?

You are bitter and angry, and it's showing. Not that your bitterness and anger detract from the worth of your argument, but you're not presenting a decent argument anyway. Healthy human relationships are continually symbiotic, not about paying to seduce a woman and then crying because she doesn't give you what you want.

Because of people like you, who have forced your morality on others, it's put these working women in danger. Legalization and acceptance of the industry is the only way to remove the bad elements of the industry.

You're about the 5th poster to assume that I was arguing for the banning of prostitution, even though I started the argument by acknowledging that there are good arguments for legalisation and making clear that "moral" is not the same as "legal".

Prostitution should be legal and well regulated. "Acceptance" is another matter. For example, let's say you're in an evil socialist European state and there's a job opening for a prostitute - should you lose unemployment benefits if you don't take the position? Geeks are so accepting of the scientific method except when it comes to studying humans themselves - in this particular case, no psychologist will argue that the effect of fucking 50 strangers a day is generally as benign as serving 50 burgers a day. But are you arguing that, and what is your extraordinary evidence?

Re:oh darn (5, Interesting)

dissy (172727) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473414)

But it's without foundation to bring up the "lots of women want to do it" argument. And "want to do it", whatever the tedious capitalist he-may-be-interned-in-a-factory-but-at-least-he's-not-dying-in-the-fields armchair philosophers will tell you, must not be confused with "is desperate for money and willing to do it because there is no viable alternative".

So instead of a situation of a desperate woman being a prostitute to pay the bills, you instead would rather that desperate woman be a prostitute to pay the bills AND be a criminal.
That's rather nice of you :/

Look, we both know the problem is desperation, and that is what needs to be solved.
Clearly neither of us have that solution, nor do the women doing this.

Why make them criminals just because they are already in a fucked up situation?
Because outlawing something does not stop it, especially when you are that desperate already.

If it was simply taxed and regulated like any other legal job, we wouldn't have any of the Other problems we get today with prostitution, and will be making the exact same dent in the desperation problem as now (read None)

Then a lot of those desperate women will not be criminals as well, and might have a better chance of improving their situation without a police record to follow them forever.

Right now it's very hard to help improve any of those peoples lives, as with a criminal record they can't easily do quite a lot of things we take for granted, such as getting a job.

Remove that one little barrier and it becomes that much easier to provide some real help.

Re:oh darn (1)

mr_mischief (456295) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473512)

Outlawing it, declaring war on it, having shitty prosecution numbers, and hiring more cops and corrections officers to deal with arresting and incarcerating the "offenders" makes a wonderful jobs bill.

Also, many johns and drug buyers are now caught in asset forfeiture nets if they use a car, cell phone, or some other piece of easily seizable property to commit the illegal act. That helps pay for the extra cops and corrections officers.

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473450)

You are begging the question.

It seems you have an outmoded morality that sees sex as something dirty, or wrong (I'm guessing you're a Christian?), and that paid for sex is even more wrong.

Please join us in 2010. Sex between consenting adults is normal, common, and there is nothing immoral or wrong about it.

Plenty or people, men and women, have absolutely no hang ups about sex. Just because you do, doesn't mean that sex work is wrong.

I actually have known some sex workers. One was my neighbour. She had no problems with sex work, and no hang ups about it. Of course, I come from New Zealand where we legalised sex work a few years back.

So I guess I have considered "the average prostitute", because I know some of them. They're normal people, just like you or me. They just have a different job.

Re:oh darn (1)

UCSCTek (806902) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473486)

But it's without foundation to bring up the "lots of women want to do it" argument.

He didn't say anything about how many woman want to do it, just that there are obviously some. Don't argue against something no one is trying to defend. It's a valid point that, for every woman who would like this avenue of work, legalization would be helping someone.

Regardless, in the case of people who are prostituting themselves to make ends meet, without "choice", it seems to me that legalization would be a better scenario, since the working conditions (medical checkups, personal security) would be improved.

Re:oh darn (1)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473528)

He didn't say anything about how many woman want to do it, just that there are obviously some.

The context is an argument defending prostitution.

If you say that you look at manga and my response points out that at least one person who looks at manga is a pedophile, I haven't actually stated that you a pedophile. But it's obvious what association I'm trying to convey. Otherwise, given that the literal assertion is almost inevitable, I wouldn't have said it.

Re:oh darn (2, Informative)

pitchpipe (708843) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473488)

But it's without foundation to bring up the "lots of women want to do it" argument. And "want to do it", whatever the tedious capitalist he-may-be-interned-in-a-factory-but-at-least-he's-not-dying-in-the-fields armchair philosophers will tell you, must not be confused with "is desperate for money and willing to do it because there is no viable alternative".

Why do you think that I go to my job everyday. Take call-outs in the middle of the fucking night when there is two feet of snow on the ground on Christmas (I work in an open pit mine)? It's the money, duh!

I have not read any evidence that a majority of prostitutes work because they enjoy being prostitutes. Have you?

I'm betting that you probably haven't researched it far enough to find out. After ten seconds with Google. [dearcupid.org] Maybe not a majority, but there sure are a LOT of shit jobs out there that pay a lot less!

Re:oh darn (5, Insightful)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473494)

I speak from anecdotal evidence, so I know this does not apply to everyone in the field. There certainly are women who don't really want to do the job, and these people certainly deserve a path out of their professional field, but there are a number of people like that in almost all careers.

You'd be surprised that it doesn't take a big stretch for a woman to get to the 6 figure mark, or at least what would be a 6 figure income if their pay is used as "take home", and we extrapolate what they would be earning if they were paying their proper taxes, etc.

I know one particular former call girl who willingly and knowingly entered into the field of her own free will, and felt more honest about her earnings than when she was working as a computer programmer.

Most people object to prostitution on two grounds: human trafficking, which should be wrong anyways, mistreatment by their pimps, or the dangers presented by clients. Most people who are against prostitution are not against the prostitutes themselves. They see them as "trapped" in a position where they have a high likelihood of harm. Yet, if we legalized it, then human trafficking would still be wrong, mistreatment by their pimps could be handled by police and other governmental authorities, and protection against clients is guaranteed the same way.

In Sweden, prostitution is not illegal, but being a pimp and frequenting a prostitute are illegal. Imagine the wonderful nature of your transaction of: "if you stiff me, I can call the cops, and they'll arrest you, and I walk away." Clients won't screw their prostitutes in this case. The same with pimps. "Go ahead, slap me... I'll call the cops, and they'll haul you away, and I can admit openly that I'm a prostitute, and I won't get taken away."

How about making prostitution a SAFE profession, rather than demanding it be illegal to stop people from doing it? If you're concerned about their health from the sex alone, either physical and/or mental, then when shall we expect an intent to make promiscuity itself illegal?

Re:oh darn (4, Insightful)

Dhalka226 (559740) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473496)

Stop being a "prostitution is no initiation of force therefore it should be legal therefore it is OK" libertard and instead ask "Is it moral in general to pay for prostitutes?"

Gee, I wonder if you've made up your mind in advance at all? "Stop being a retard who disagrees with me and instead ask a question that I will only allow you to conclude the same as I do without being insulted!" Hey, thanks! If you think that position is wrong, then the onus is on you to explain why.

If your hypothesis that most women are only prostitutes because they are desperate for money and there is no viable alternative is correct, then all you have done is criminalize what even you describe as their only choice to make money. At best, in your world, you stop them from doing the only thing they can do to survive. At worst they do it anyway and are criminals in addition to paupers, with all of the stigma and danger associated with any criminal activity. At least if it were legalized, there could be some protections in place both for the prostitutes and for the Johns. When "hope you don't get beaten and robbed" or "hope your pimp is a nice guy" are your only protections, there's something wrong.

So, the six-figure-a-year celebrity hookers probably want to do it and they're making money hand-over-fist, so I don't see an argument to prevent it from that extreme. The opposite extreme (buying into your argument) is that the women don't really want to do it but have no other choice to survive, making legalizing it a slightly better alternative to a terrible situation that actually has very little to do with prostitution and more to do with hopeless economic conditions. Somewhere in the middle are women who aren't sexual millionaires but either want to do it, don't care either way or don't particularly want to do it and don't need to but consider it easier or faster money than the available alternatives. I'm seeing an entire spectrum where not a single data point would lead me to the conclusion that prostitution should be illegal.

In fact, the only reason I can think of is the one supposed by your question: Imposing my set of morality on other people. My answer to your question about whether or not it is moral to pay for sex is "why the hell should I care?" If it doesn't involve me I don't find it to be any more my business than whether or not your wife or girlfriend (or boyfriend) is kinky in the sack. If it does, then I can exercise my own morality to my own actions and relations -- exactly as it should be. I wouldn't date a hooker, whether it was legal or not. I don't respect the behavior. It doesn't mean I need it to be criminal to prove my moral superiority.

Now, legalizing prostitution isn't simple; it's something that would need to be done carefully to achieve any of the potential benefits and avoid a clusterfuck of potential problems. Very probably other laws would need to be created or changed. But all in all, if "I don't approve of what you're doing with your body" is the best I can come up with to stop you... fuck me. No pun intended.

Re:oh darn (2, Insightful)

Kitkoan (1719118) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473502)

ask "Is it moral in general to pay for prostitutes?"

How about asking "Is it moral for me to tell others how to live and what they can and cannot do?" What ever happened to freedom? Freedom of choice and to chose? Just because you don't approve of it doesn't magically make it wrong. Consider that some things you do are no doubt considered morally wrong to others.

Yes, there have been cases of woman being abused/forced into prostitution, but if you look, every job has cases were people have been abused, with a much higher degree of these problems when the job/service is forced underground. Same thing happened during the prohibition, suddenly places that served alcohol had more problems/issues.

As for prostitutes being happy with their job, there are reports that woman choose to do it, and are happy doing it. [sawf.org] The only problems come up when people feel this burning urge to demonize them and their job choice. As for it being morally wrong, where do you get this opinion/information from? How is it morally wrong if both people are consenting adults that are quite happy and fine with the choice that they are making?

Re:oh darn (1)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473548)

How about asking "Is it moral for me to tell others how to live and what they can and cannot do?"

Is it moral for me to tell you that you should (I didn't argue for banning anything) not kill humans? Not kill animals? Steal? Copy software? Lie? Cut someone off? Drink and drive?

This thread is full of people confusing legality and morality. This is the mistake the religious right make. Given that geeks can be just as dogmatic, I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see that here too.

Re:oh darn (2, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473518)

"Is it moral in general to pay for prostitutes?"

Yes, because not paying for prostitutes is theft of their services. Second, the real question is, "Should it be legal to engage in prostitution and pay for the services of the prostitution." That's clearly yes, since as has been pointed out before, there is no harm committed.

Re:oh darn (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473526)

If they had something better to earn money doing, they'd be doing that. So, if you prevent them from prostitution, they'll be doing something worse to earn money. That's better how?

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473540)

Buried in your response was your real position. You're an extreme-right conservative, supports pedophilia, and haven't grasped "run-on sentences".

Re:oh darn (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473290)

And all of them really don't mind 1 in 5 chance of getting AIDS even if we disregard other aspects of the job? Not saying it should be completely illegal, just that prostitution will become much more rare and expensive if we get serious about combatting criminal, health and educational issues. Maybe so much so you will consider regular dating again.

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473340)

Yeeeeahhh, um, Bob, I think we're going to need to see a citation for that. In what area where prostitution is legal and regulated do prostitutes have a 1 in 5 chance of getting AIDS?

Re:oh darn (1)

UCSCTek (806902) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473446)

Regulated prostitution is far safer than black market prostitution, for both parties, so you are really arguing for legalization...

Re:oh darn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473350)

They already do.

Re:oh darn (1)

BudAaron (1231468) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473422)

ROTFLMAO - they already do and have for a long time. The worlds oldest profession WILL find a way even though they get flagged.

And as we all know... (2, Insightful)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473168)

Out of sight, out of mind.

Clearly, Craigslist getting rid of their adult services section removes all such adult services from the rest of the Internet, and in fact, from existence itself.

Re:And as we all know... (3, Interesting)

yincrash (854885) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473356)

craigslist is the only adult services listing site that reports tips to the center for missing and exploited children. these listings are just going to go somewhere else that won't report any listings and will be harder for law enforcement to find.

WTF man (1)

masmullin (1479239) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473174)

I mean dude... my dick isn't gonna suck itself!

Re:WTF man (4, Funny)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473186)

You could post in M4M, you'll get plenty of offers.

slashdotters SOL (2, Funny)

DrugCheese (266151) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473184)

How are all us slashdotters supposed to find nude modelling gigs now?

backpage.com (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473200)

http://www.backpage.com/classifieds/index. Like prostitution is going to go away. lol

Idiots (4, Insightful)

BlueCoder (223005) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473204)

Some politician says ban this section and it will all go away...

Now the personals section is going to get even more polluted.

Casual Encounters will become the new adult section but it will spill over into the normal sections. Strictly platonic will probably become the "normal" area. If this is the intelligence of state attorney generals then we must have a lot of innocent people in jail.

Re:Idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473210)

HAHAHAHAHAH. "Normal"

Re:Idiots (1)

camperslo (704715) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473432)

Now the personals section is going to get even more polluted.

And there is still the "therapeutic" services section (where legit massage ads belong).

Users should follow the posted flagging/reporting instructions for things that don't belong.

Re:Idiots (5, Insightful)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473458)

There is a lot of belief in politics that if we make something illegal, people will stop doing it.

This idea is retarded, and recognizably inconsistent with reality.

Re:Idiots (1)

mr_mischief (456295) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473522)

There is a lot of belief in politics that if we make something illegal, people will lose their cars to the law enforcement agency that catches them doing the illegal thing in their cars.

Consenting Adults (1)

lwsimon (724555) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473222)

Tell me again who's the victim? I must have missed it. Is it the person getting paid, or the person getting their dick sucked?

Re:Consenting Adults (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473244)

The person that had to pay for drinks, a dinner, and a movie and didn't even get more than a peck on the cheak and an offer to do it again in a couple nights, in hope that you might get a proper kiss. A few weeks, a dozen hours or more, and a few hundred dollars, and they "might" get lucky...
 
  People like that hate the fact that someone can spend a fraction of that money for copious amounts of sex, and not have to have formed an emotional connection.... And the women like that hate it even more, because it really draws away from their bottom line... I mean dateability....
 
  One group hate that quick and easy solution they didn't think of first, and the other hates the compitition....

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473254)

so, prostitution is the series of cheat codes for sex, and some honest players get into a moralizing mode?

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473292)

people not getting laid getting mad at those that are?
wonder if this factor helps fuel homophobia sometimes, as well?

Re:Consenting Adults (2, Interesting)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473312)

The person that had to pay for drinks, a dinner, and a movie and didn't even get more than a peck on the cheak and an offer to do it again in a couple nights, in hope that you might get a proper kiss. A few weeks, a dozen hours or more, and a few hundred dollars, and they "might" get lucky...

Oh, so the purpose of a date is to get sex, and you're a "victim" if the other person doesn't put out?

You need to review your understanding of human relationships. (Yes, I'm sure you'll point out you're talking about "people/women like that", and not yourself. Mhm.)

Re:Consenting Adults (4, Insightful)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473332)

In the end, yes... not always that one, first date... but continuing to date someone, in the hopes of marriage and commitment, sex is a large part of that... so technically, even in the purest sense, dating is about sex...

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

The Hatchet (1766306) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473338)

So jealousy is a reason for hating an entire practice? because sometimes people need sex and have trouble forming stable relationships, or women just aren't willing to put out? Like seriously? Are we going to outlaw having nice things too, and having good relationships, and anything else that one can be jealous of? There is nothing wrong with prostitution except for the fact that it is illegal and unregulated. And the spread of STIs, but we should be investing a hellalot of money into curing those anyways, because they are not unique to prostitutes. And to be honest it doesn't eat away from their bottom line at all. Relationships are totally separate from prostitution, and if somebody is just looking for cheap sex they aren't exactly looking for a relationship anyways. There is a false sense of competition and an unfounded hate. What a load of total bullshit. Although I would never use a prostitute unless I was seriously desperate to get laid, my nuts turning blue.

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473252)

How many people do you think REALLY want to make a living sucking your dick as opposed to those forced to by mafia collecting drug debt or some such thing? A lot of things - suicide, riding motorcycle without helmet, hot schoolteachers putting it out for students - should be theoretically legal but in practice come with issues.

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

CosmeticLobotamy (155360) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473286)

How many people do you think REALLY want to make a living sucking your dick as opposed to those forced to by mafia collecting drug debt or some such thing?

You're not at all wrong. I'm sure the number of girls happy to be doing that job is in the double digits worldwide.

However, if prostitution were legal, the supply would go way up and the cost would correspondingly drop. The day after it's legalized, the mafia will start forcing you to go to DeVry and become a systems administrator to pay off your drug debt.

Re:Consenting Adults (4, Insightful)

RsG (809189) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473344)

However, if prostitution were legal...

Legal and regulated. The illegality of prostitution is only part of the problem with the current state of affairs.

Prostitution carries with it some serious societal issues. Coercion from pimps, poverty, VD, and back-alley abortions have been associated with prostitution for thousands of years. None of these will go away if the laws against soliciting are lifted.

Illegality adds another problem; it forces the business under the rug, leaving hookers essentially without legal recourse - they can be robbed, raped, killed, or otherwise harmed because the perp knows the victim won't go to the cops, or won't be missed.

Legalizing prostitution without regulating it will solve the last problem, but not the rest. Keeping it illegal only removes the problems from public view, and makes the situation worse for those involved. You need to legalize it, while imposing health and safety regulations.

Re:Consenting Adults (2, Insightful)

jrumney (197329) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473558)

Illegality adds another problem; it forces the business under the rug, leaving hookers essentially without legal recourse - they can be robbed, raped, killed, or otherwise harmed because the perp knows the victim won't go to the cops, or won't be missed.

Where exactly do you think the coercion from pimps, poverty, VD, and back-alley abortions come from?

Re:Consenting Adults (5, Informative)

cappp (1822388) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473412)

I'm not sure you're right there, at least in part. Prostitution is legal and regulated in a fair number of countries - Australia, New Zealand, Austria, Germany, The Netherlands, Canada for instance - and treated in a somewhat more complicated manner in many more - most of the rest of Europe, India, a smattering of Central American states, and so on. The sheer scale of the sexual industry in countries that have legal protections in place - which have reduced financial incentives for what would otherwise be illicit trades - suggests that a decent number of men and woman deliberately choose prostitution as a rational employment route. Superfreakenomics has an interesting chapter online [timesonline.co.uk] which covers the basic topic.

That of course leaves the question of trafficking which is the usual problem raised i.e. does the prostitution industry provide a prime motivation for human trafficing. However there seems to be a significant lack of data supporting this. The Guardian ran an interesting piece [guardian.co.uk] covering this topic. I'm going to quote just the opening paragraph but its well worth a read if you find yourself with a free 10 minutes.

There is something familiar about the tide of misinformation which has swept through the subject of sex trafficking in the UK: it flows through exactly the same channels as the now notorious torrent about Saddam Hussein's weapons. In the story of UK sex trafficking, the conclusions of academics who study the sex trade have been subjected to the same treatment as the restrained reports of intelligence analysts who studied Iraqi weapons – stripped of caution, stretched to their most alarming possible meaning and tossed into the public domain. There, they have been picked up by the media who have stretched them even further in stories which have then been treated as reliable sources by politicians, who in turn provided quotes for more misleading stories.

Yes, that doesn't prove that sex workers necessarily enjoy their work. It doesn't prove that other forms of coercion don't exist.But it does frame the issue somewhat differently.

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473442)

It's common sense when you think about it. No legitimate brothel is going to want to risk its license to operate by hiring a bunch of trafficked sex slaves. Meanwhile illegal brothels have huge incentives to ONLY use trafficked prostitutes because they are much less likely to rat out the pimps to the cops.

Re:Consenting Adults (4, Insightful)

cappp (1822388) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473506)

Yup, and frankly I imagine using sex slaves is far more work than it's worth when you're in a country where it's fine to just slap a job ad in the local paper.

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

LainTouko (926420) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473334)

Of course, the real issue there is the criminal world's monopoly on the supply of non-mainstream drugs.

Re:Consenting Adults (1)

The Hatchet (1766306) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473354)

Come with issues when illegal. If prostitution was legalized and regulated, eliminating pimps abusive practices, then women could get the full profit from their work. And to be honest, sucking a dick for 20 minutes to get a few hundred bucks would sure as hell beat working at an office for 8 hours a day an making half the money. hell, I would do that to get by if it meant not having to work, and I am repulsed by the testicals of others, and incredibly strait. But money man, it rocks.

Re:Consenting Adults (2, Informative)

cappp (1822388) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473452)

Uh buddy....if you're paying a couple hundred you're the one getting fucked

It turns out that the typical street prostitute in Chicago works 13 hours a week, performing 10 sex acts during that period, and earns an hourly wage of approximately $27. So her weekly take-home pay is roughly $350. This includes an average of $20 that a prostitute steals from her customers and drugs accepted in lieu of cash.

Thats from the Superfreakenomics article exerpt I cited before.

So let the slashdot be the first place... (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473224)

Where attorney generals can curse at links to all the unregulated adult services websites outside US jurisdiction.

Re:So let the slashdot be the first place... (1)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473232)

Seriously. At least go with the devil you know.

If there was a serious situation with a posting in adult services, presumably law enforcement could compel craigslist to turn over the IP address of the person that posted the ad, which could lead to their location.

They will get no such help at all with whatever foreign websites come into existence to fill the void here.

Only seems to effect the USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473242)

It works fine for me on the Toronto, Canada Craigslist. Out-call prostitution is legal in Ontario though.

Re:Only seems to effect the USA (2, Informative)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473256)

It works fine for me on the Toronto, Canada Craigslist. Out-call prostitution is legal in Ontario though.

Yes. If you'd bothered to read the article you'd have noticed "The section was shut down on Friday night to all users in the United States, but is still viewable by international users."

Re:Only seems to effect the USA (2, Interesting)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473362)

So all U.S. users need is a proxy outside the U.S.

Re:Only seems to effect the USA (3, Funny)

Phurge (1112105) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473436)

If you'd bothered to read the article

You must be new here...

Re:Only seems to effect the USA (2, Funny)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473532)

If you'd bothered to read the article

You must be new here...

No, not new. Just forever optimistic :)

:rolleyes: (5, Insightful)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473260)

Prostitution control is about as effective as drug control and gun control.

Re::rolleyes: (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473274)

US Attorneys General declare "War on Nookie."

Re::rolleyes: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473542)

This is my rifle , this is my gun, this ones for shootin' , this ones for fun !

Re::rolleyes: (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473328)

New bumper sticker to mark the occasion: "Prostitution Control means using both hands!"

Re::rolleyes: (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473482)

Shhh...you'll dispel the law and order orgasmic fantasy that the republicans have! It's just like with abortion, they think if its outlawed it will magically go away. But it won't and neither will a lot of the other shit that is outlawed in the US. All that happens is that you have record large #s of people in prison costing taxpayers out the ass, spreading lovely things like HIV to people who don't deserve it and generally just fucking up people's lives. Someone arrested for smoking some marijuana is actually probably more likely to go on to commit bigger crimes in their future than a marijuana user who wasn't arrested, not due to drugs but due to the fact that the person arrested now has a criminal record and is less able to get a good job which in turn makes them more likely to commit crimes.

Meanwhile some ass-clown(ahem Bush) goes fucking joy riding while drunk off his ass and all he gets is a little slap on the wrist, at most. Who actually endangered a life? Certainly not the pot smoker who sat on their own property and didn't drive out anywhere...... Republicans(and to a lesser extent Democrats) have fucked up the USA so insanely bad and yet the ignorant sheep continue to vote for them. I fail to see why.

There, I fixed it! (3, Insightful)

Auckerman (223266) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473266)

This is the future of the Internet. Corporate censorship at the demand of the loudest group. One by one, sites are going to filter user areas. Then content. Starting with obvious things that few will care about, like prostitution. Slowly, everything is going to be so pasteurized that sites with no filters will be considered criminal organizations.

Look, whatever you think of it is irrelevant, abused or not, the racier parts of the internet are a necessary part of freedom. Draw the line of allowed hosted content straight through what most people find offensive and leave it there.

It may not happen in our lifetime, but if we don't demand full neutrality (for host and carriers), it's going to happen.

So? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473294)

Rent a server in a country where prostitution is legal. Don't specifically target the US. /end

Well Shit, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473322)

Now where am I going to hire the local high quality hookers? Looks like I am shit out of luck here.

This is a tragic day (1)

plague911 (1292006) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473408)

Literally hours of internet comic gold will be lost. Please think of our children. Where will they go to laugh about crazy tyranny hookers?

Clearly, the time has come.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473430)

for /. to take advantage of this huge opportunity.....

Posting categories at adult.slashdot.org

1. Geeks seeking Nerds, post count: 4
2. Nerds seeking Geeks, post count: 12
3. Geeks seeking Geeks, post count: 8
4. Nerds seeking Nerds, post count: 11
5. Geeks and Nerds seeking ANYONE, post count: 267914296

Stupid (3, Insightful)

The Fanta Menace (607612) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473454)

Someone's not thinking outside the box. They should have just spun off that part of the company and run it from another country with sensible attitudes towards sex (eg, The Netherlands or Belgium), where the US can't touch them.

sex wit4 a fucker (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473464)

refo8m4tted [goat.cx]

shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33473520)

There goes my weekend!

Out of sight, out of mind (3, Interesting)

Pilum99 (1860924) | more than 3 years ago | (#33473538)

Since those ads are no longer easily viewed by the general public, some politicians will now consider it a victory against the evil sex trade. So now, instead of the sex trade of teenagers easily tracked by authorities and gov't officials, it has now gone back underground where it is harder to track and deal with those issues. Prohibition was supposed to improve society, but instead the booze went underground, organized crime developed, and more social problems arose as a result. Just as people like to imbibe, people also like to have sex (gasp! shock!). The allegory continues, just substitute "booze" for "sex trade".
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