Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Australia Adopts EU's Geographical Indicator System For Wine

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the all-official-like dept.

Australia 302

onreserve writes with an excerpt from a site dedicated to laws affecting wine: "[L]ast week, Australia signed an agreement with the European Union to comply with the geographical indicator (GI) system of the EU. The new agreement replaces an agreement signed in 1994 between the two wine powers and protects eleven of the EU drink labels and 112 of the Australian GI's. Specifically, this means that many of the wine products produced in Australia that were previously labeled according to European names, such as sherry and tokay, will no longer be labeled under these names. Wine producers in Australia will have three years to 'phase out' the use of such names on labels. Australian labels that will be discontinued include amontillado, Auslese, burgundy, chablis, champagne, claret, marsala, moselle, port, and sherry."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Geolocation is bad. (5, Funny)

asnelt (1837090) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473690)

I am against geolocation of wine. I think that GNU/Linux users should be able to keep their privacy. Why do I have the feeling that I am off-topic here...

Re:Geolocation is bad. (1)

furbearntrout (1036146) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473696)

You must be new here...

One Acronym: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474038)

I2P

Look it up.. It will solve your anonymity and encryption problems. It is even possible to connect two computers with firewalls blocking ALL incoming connections using I2P. And yes, you can manage tunnels for ALL TCP traffic through a nice web-interface.

Think of I2P as an anonymous Tor, Hamachi, www, bittorrent, mail, IRC, ssh, socks, httpd-client.

Hint: If you tunnel a privoxy server, you can tunnel anything through that httpd server using only 1 tunnel.. With 1 hop, it will work even though none of your machines have inbound connections..

Point is, such a list could easily be hosted on an anonymous webpage (eepsite in I2P-terms), which anyone can access anonymously within the network. Neither the server or the client's IP address will be known to any adversary without enormous resources and serious work towards it.

Australian Tokay makes me sad (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473694)

Tokaji is mentioned in the Hungarian National Anthem, written in 1823. What are the Aussies doing with that name?

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1)

SystematicPsycho (456042) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473712)

What are the FYROMians doing with Greece's name Macedonia? Theft is a worldwide pandemic.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (4, Interesting)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473826)

What are the FYROMians doing with Greece's name Macedonia?

Continuing the name of that region? Almost no one disputes that the former Yugoslavian republic includes part of the historical region of Macedonia. It is simply a mere portion of that region, with the rest lying in Greece. What really started the beef between that region and Greece is the FYROM's appropriation of Alexander the Great and the traditional Macedonian sun symbol. Greeks say, "Hey, you're a bunch of Slavs. Slavs came in the 6th century AD, and this old stuff is all Ancient Greek, our heritage!". Inhabitants of the FYROM could say "Slavs came and imposed their language, but many of us are genetically descended from Alexander's people!"

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (4, Insightful)

Freultwah (739055) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473844)

As it is, the Greeks really have no business telling any other country what name they should be using, especially when the ancient Macedonia is pretty much evenly divided between Greece and Macedonia. It's not as if Macedonia is calling itself Greece... Here's an idea: let's listen to North and South Korea bicker over who has a legitimate right to use the name Korea.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474116)

Actually. North Korea criticizes South Korea because it doesn't use the traditional word for Korea(Joseon) in Korean but Republic of the Big Meaningless Chinese Character(Han).

Re: The Macedonian naming problem (2, Interesting)

PybusJ (30549) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474126)

Now that's an idea. Let FYR Macedonia change name to North Macedonia, it's less of a mouthful and geographically accurate.

Somehow, though, I have my doubts that the Greeks will take to it.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473746)

Yes, it's strange. I remember that even Alsacian french wine producers can not use the name "tokay" anymore because of Appellation d'origine contrôlée. That dates back from 2003

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (4, Informative)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474016)

It was a really stupid idea in the first place. A lot of it makes some degree of sense in that it somewhat simplifies the necessary study to know what you're buying, but it's going way out of control. Probably the best example is with champagne, where Champagne, Switzerland [bbc.co.uk] is no longer allowed to use it's own name like it had previously to call it's sparkling wine. The village history of doing so dates back to the 17th century and the name of the village back to the 9th.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (2, Funny)

tokul (682258) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473794)

Tokaji is mentioned in the Hungarian National Anthem, written in 1823. What are the Aussies doing with that name?

It is Liqueur Tokay.

Wine trees were imported to Australia. I am not wine expert, but if they use same sort of wines, mix of grapes used in Tokaji and wine fermentation process is not patented, patent is not expired and name is not trademarked, then Aussies are free to call their wine whatever they want. They do indicate that wine is made by Morris of Rutherglen.

http://www.morriswines.com/tastingNotes/Morris%20Old%20Premium%20Liqueur%20Tokay.pdf [morriswines.com]

This geolocation restriction only makes wine look like exquisite beverage and allows old wine producers to overcharge for their products without actually registering and protecting their trademark.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (4, Informative)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473834)

Even if they are using the grapes from Tokay in Australia, the soil is different. The soil has a noticeable effect on the wine produced, even if the grapes and methods are the same, so restrictions on regional names make sense.

Perhaps not as much as you think (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474050)

Go look up some of the double blind taste test studies done. People aren't nearly as good at telling wines apart when they don't know before hand. Wine snobs (and wine vinters even more especially) like to claim some extremely subtle differences base on the smallest thing, but the scientific evidence isn't there to support it.

Hell if you like, conduct your own experiment. It isn't that hard or expensive. Here's what you do:

1) Buy the wines to be compared. You can either buy a number of wines, or just buy two. If you buy many, you run a test where people rank them from best to worst numerically. If you buy two, buy two that are as similar as possible, but supposedly different, like same grape, same price, different region. You then do an ABX test where people get three glasses labeled A, B and X and are asked which of A or B is the same as X.

2) Assemble a panel of people. You can be on it. Get whoever you think has good taste in wine, it is all up to you. You'll need at least 10 but more is better.

3) Get two people to run the experiment for you.

4) Have person #1 fill glasses with wine, and label them with A, B, C, etc or A, B, X. They randomize what goes in which glass (for best results use a computer for randomization), and record the wine that was placed in each glass on a sheet of paper. You don't get to see it, nobody does. They write down the results only, nobody talks to them. They need to be in a room all by themselves, no peeking.

5) Have person #2 come and serve the wine to the testers, one at a time. They don't talk to person #1, just come and get the wine. They write down the results from the people's tests. Either the numerical rank of each letter, or which of A or B matched X. They can't tell the results to anyone doing the tasting, or to person #1.

6) When all people have finished testing, come and get the two papers. Match up the results to the wine on a spreadsheet.

Doing this, provided it is done properly (as in nobody looks at the papers and the two testers don't communicate) you'll get valid results. There will be no chance knowledge of what was going on could bias the results.

However, don't get mad if the result is "Nobody could tell the difference to a statistically significant amount."

Re:Perhaps not as much as you think (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474096)

To make a difference to wine you have to educate your palate. drink a lot of water and have a wide variety of food without much sauce. If you start pounding on sauce, mustard, sugar and sodas, you'll never be able to tell the difference.

I have been eating a wide range of food, lots of water and plenty of wines and I can tell the difference between two bottles of the same vineyard but of two different years.
The only wines I cannot differentiated are the industrial all-alike wines that are usually as far as what wine is than a McD Burger is to real food.

Thank you for the detailed explanation on how to set up an objective panel but then you should assemble only wine drinkers-lovers to get a good recommendation.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (5, Informative)

Sique (173459) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473920)

The australians are free to name their wine after the grapes. The grapes used to ferment the Tokay wine are Furmint, Muscat lunel, Zéta and Hárslevel. Of them, Furmint and Hárslevel are authochtone, that means only cultivated in Hungary and in the south of Slovakia.

If an australian vineyard is cultivating e.g. Furmint grapes and fermenting them into wine, they are free to call them Furmint, and even Furmint szamorodni (meaning "Furmint as it grows itself", made from both dry and non dry berries). But for what reason they should call it "Tokay"? There is nothing in it that justifies the name. A Tokay wine is not called "Tokay" itself, it is called "Tokay Furmint szamorodni" for instance or "Tokay Eszencia", if they are made from dry berries only.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1)

Sique (173459) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473926)

Oops... Slashdot is eating non-ASCII-letters. The grape is called Hárslevelü, with the ü having something that looks like two accents and not the umlaut-dots.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (4, Insightful)

Sique (173459) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473938)

Or to clarify: If an australian vineyard is fermenting a "Tokay" wine, they should clearly label what they are doing.

Are they fermenting an Aszú? An Aszúeszencia? A Forditás?

Tokay is really only the place where the wine was fermented, it tells you nothing about the actual type of wine you are drinking. Labelling something "Tokay" is thus misleading, if it doesn't come from Tokay. That would be like a chinese toymaker selling stuff under the label "Made in U.S.".

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1)

Starayo (989319) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473952)

All the Rutherglen wineries are fantastic. I think I've tried that Tokay, I remember the guy who I talked to when I was tasting it told me about the situation with the naming, I don't recall what the replacement name was but I know it was stupid.

I'm also disappointed at the ban on the name "port". I rarely drink but when I do it's usually port. Next time I feel like a bottle I won't know what to buy!

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (5, Insightful)

pthisis (27352) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474102)

I'm also disappointed at the ban on the name "port". I rarely drink but when I do it's usually port. Next time I feel like a bottle I won't know what to buy!

This is spot-on. The move to restrict names that originated as place names but have become style descriptors is ridiculous, IMO, and the decisions about what is protected and what isn't are purely political with no regard as to actual genericization.

It makes no sense that "Parmesan", "Sangria", and "Champagne" are geographically restricted but "Cheddar" and "Philadelphia cream cheese" aren't.

Champagne, Switzerland has been producing wine since before Dom Perignon came up with his method of making sparkling wine, but they're not allowed to label it as "Champagne"--that's because everyone knows "Champagne" is a word indicating a particular style, and calling the Swiss (non-sparkling) wine "Champagne" would confuse consumers.

Once you've recognized that, restricting the name by geography is ludicrous.

These laws actually serve to confuse consumers, not to help them--things like "port" are style descriptors in the English language. The right thing to do is to require actual claims of geography to be accurate (already the case) and let Duoro label their port as "Made in Duoro", Jerez label their Sherry as "Made in Jerez", etc.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (0)

curmudgeous (710771) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474004)

Wine trees were imported to Australia.

Awesome, I've never seen a wine tree. Where can I find one of these for MY backyard? ;)

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474072)

Wine trees were imported to Australia.

Hungarian wine grows on trees? I did not know that.

Re:Australian Tokay makes me sad (1)

tokul (682258) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474194)

Hungarian wine grows on trees? I did not know that.

Thanks for being naming nazi. Plants or what ever they are. I used trees to distinguish from wine drinks.

Dont't like the idea anyway... (2, Funny)

commlinx (1068272) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473700)

I don't like the idea much anyway of wine names tied to region names, the grape varietie(s) are more informative and universal. And for novelty wines there are plenty of other names us Aussies can use like "Alice Springs Leg Opener".
Anyway back to my beer...

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (4, Funny)

grantek (979387) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473720)

In reality you could just label everything "Plonk", have the grapes/location/year(s) in small text for those interested, and people would still buy it.

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (5, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474008)

In reality you could just label everything "Plonk", have the grapes/location/year(s) in small text for those interested, and people would still buy it.

No, people who know Usenet would avoid it because they'd think it's so bad it got put into a killfile.

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (3, Informative)

16K Ram Pack (690082) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473776)

It's mostly an attempt to con people with that whole "terroir" nonsense. I drink Loire sparkling wine because it's made with the same technique as Champagne, with the same grapes, in an area that isn't that different in climate. And most people I serve it to wouldn't know the difference (it's actually slightly fruitier).

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (1)

tkdack (325771) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473818)

And for novelty wines there are plenty of other names us Aussies can use like "Alice Springs Leg Opener".

That's actually beer, not wine ... it's called VB

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473948)

And for novelty wines there are plenty of other names us Aussies can use like "Alice Springs Leg Opener".

That's actually beer, not wine ... it's called VB

Visual Basic is a beer? :-)

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (2, Funny)

illumastorm (172101) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474046)

Nah, Visual Basic is more like straight grain alcohol. It can really mess a computer up.

Re:Dont't like the idea anyway... (3, Interesting)

seasunset (469481) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474172)

This is not a nationalistic/rationalistic thing. Have you tried to take Furmint grapes and plant them say, in Norway? [For the less knowledgeable, it is too far North for this plant]

I am being extreme but illustrating the main point: a wine is not only the grapes: it is the weather and the soil (and many other factors, actually). This is why most wine is also known by the year: "good" or "bad" years mostly influenced by that years's climate on a specific place.

Australia has lots of wine variety. It can stand on its own merits. There is no need to hijack names for other places, that actually mean (and taste) different.

kepsev (3, Funny)

photonic (584757) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473702)

While they're at it, could those EU guys please teach the Ozzies how to properly pronounce the different types of grapes. While I was down there, it took me a while to understand that kepsev (pronounced with nasal Texan accent) means Cabernet Sauvignon ...

Re:kepsev (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473738)

hahah, welcometo'straya, ya dickhead!

ffs, honestly. We're a country founded on (probably your) criminals, and we have a habit of making words our own. It's a crim thing. Try it one day. It's no big deal really. We're not changing for you faeries up North, except maybe if we wanna make some money out of ya'.

Having said that, time to pass the grammar buck and have a whinge of me own; Can you please tell citizens of the USA English by default is not from the US, it from England. Funny that. When I download software with English, I expect it to default to use words like 'centre', 'colour', 'armour', 'aluminium' et al. Fix it arsehats, or I'll find another Slashdot article to bemoan my muelings until my beer runs out and then I'll whine about that, to. Hell, even my browser and linux install are set to UK English and are still telling me I just misspeeled all that.

And soccer is a valid word. English made it same time as football. Probably because they, like us, have other kinds of footy. So shut up Euro-trash.

P.S. I bet you're a Pom. And yeah me grammar sucks wewt!

Re:kepsev (5, Funny)

photonic (584757) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473894)

P.S. I bet you're a Pom.

Wrong guess. It was my ancestors that first spotted [wikipedia.org] and mapped [wikipedia.org] Australia, but saw that it was such a godforsaken place that they happily left it for the Brits.

Re:kepsev (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474022)

Can you please tell citizens of the USA English by default is not from the US, it from England.

All the important people live in the USA, so USA is the default

Re:kepsev (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474088)

'I bet you're a Pom.'

I've got no time for what kepsev had to say on the matter, but that's a typically insecure response from a backwards-looking Aussie.

Look to the future, you're not a colony anymore. I've spent a lot of time there, and Australia is a great country. Contrary to what you may think, we Brits don't spend time looking down on you.

Grow up. Most of your country has - so catch up.

Re:kepsev (4, Informative)

pthisis (27352) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474156)

Funny that. When I download software with English, I expect it to default to use words like 'centre', 'colour', 'armour', 'aluminium' et al.

Humphrey Davy, the Englishman who discovered it, named it aluminum. It's not our fault the Brits screwed up the spelling on that one later on.

Re:kepsev (5, Insightful)

JohnnyKlunk (568221) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473750)

Please, learn to spell Aussie before telling us how we should pronounce things. Oh, and if anyone was pronouncing 'Cab Sav' as 'kepsev' it's most likely you were in South Africa, rather than Australia.
We make some of the worlds best red wines, we are quite comfortable with our pronunciation.

Re:kepsev (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473842)

Please, learn to spell Aussie before telling us how we should pronounce things. Oh, and if anyone was pronouncing 'Cab Sav' as 'kepsev' it's most likely you were in South Africa, rather than Australia.

We make some of the worlds best red wines, we are quite comfortable with our pronunciation.

I'm Australian of French origin and have seen both spellings frequently. Also props on Sham pain and his cousin sham pagnee, that was a true example of butchering at its finest.

Re:kepsev (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474024)

Sham pain

Is that what you get from sham torture? :-)

Re:kepsev (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473960)

We make some of the worlds best red wines, we are quite comfortable with our pronunciation.

So why the hell did ya rename Syrah as 'Shiraz' :-p

Re:kepsev (1)

caluml (551744) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473856)

please teach the Ozzies

...

(pronounced with nasal Texan accent)

Go on. I give up. What am I missing here?

Re:kepsev (4, Funny)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473934)

kepsev? - It's "cabsav". /Bloody tourists.

So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1)

appleguru (1030562) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473716)

As a college student currently study abroad in Australia (Where all kinds of alcohol *except* wine are ridiculously expensive!) this change doesn't mean much to me. I'm hardly a wine connoisseur though, and while labels like "port", "champagne" and "burgundy" make it easier to identify exactly what a specific kind of wine is, its really just brand recognition. Sounds like both parties stand to benefit financially from this deal, so have at it! ...While the rest of you argue about countries and branding I'll stick to making my own "homebrew" "champagne" from $10 boxed white wine and sprite!

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1)

appleguru (1030562) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473724)

(apparently I can't speak english very well either... must be trollyed! s/study/studying)

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473756)

No, it's not brand recognition, it's type recognition. Port and Champagne and Burgundy tell you what kind of taste to expect... will it have bubbles, will it be red, and how strong. This is an attempt to reclaim the use of words that stopped having a brand or regional meaning a very long time ago. Expect to see the same with Feta and Parmesan cheese, for example.

It's not quite like Chrysler reclaiming the Jeep trademark because that was an actual brand (even if they were late to the party in reclaiming it), it's more like Ford trying to own the "ute" name worldwide, because it was used to describe utility vehicles in Aussie two generations ago and they'd like to make some money off it now.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (2, Informative)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473830)

Both Feta and the proper name of Parmesan enjoy "protected designation of origin" status within the EU already, as well as plenty of other foods such as Parma Ham.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1, Informative)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473876)

Both Feta and the proper name of Parmesan enjoy "protected designation of origin" status within the EU already, as well as plenty of other foods such as Parma Ham.

Sure, but it's BS because they were in common use worldwide to describe the kind of product as opposed to the origin, well before the EU became the EU.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473848)

The original 'utility vehicle' are still 'utes' in Australia. Ford just released the first one after buying the 'design' off some South Aussie farmer who chopped togethor an old (Bedford?) truck and a flatbed tray, but they never called it a ute. That's 'strine (Australian slang-talk). It's just other vehicles have come along using the 'utility vehicle' nomenclature, namely SUV's, which have opened the term up and made it in to the public awareness.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474040)

That's absurd, considering the large portion of the population that things it's red wine with red meat and white wine with white meat, you'll have to forgive me for being somewhat skeptical. Given the degree of change year to year within the same vineyard, or even in the same year across the same vineyard, it's somewhat fanciful to suggest that you really get that much information out of it. I mean there's a reason why they do wine tastings, and it isn't about free wine and socializing.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1)

loufoque (1400831) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473772)

Champagne is only allowed to be called champagne if it comes from a very small and specific region in France. If it's not from there, it's just sparkling wine.

France has a lot of protected labels like this: you may only call your product by a certain name if it is made in the right region, with the right ingredients, and the right processes.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473950)

This applies to all regions, not just French ones, which is why I can only buy cheddar from Cheddar and sandwiches from Sandwich. Oh, wait.

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474060)

All this really does is enforce the stereotypes that most people have of French ( i.e. that they are condescending snobs about shit that doesn't mean shit )

Re:So long as I can still get goon for $10/5L... (3, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474152)

No, not really. The whole "Champagne" battle between the EU and the US a few years ago just left everyone thinking it was the US that were the assholes. Champagne comes from champagne. End of story. Want to make a similar style somewhere else? Call it after your own region, make your own name instead of piggybacking on someone else's hard work.

What it showed the world is that the US only cares about trademarks when it's to their benefit. Which is fine, but if its citizens could stop pretending to live in a free and fair nation, the rest of us will get off your backs.

Symbols (0, Troll)

Wowsers (1151731) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473728)

Because reading the words "Produced in Australia" is too difficult for us Europeans?

Why doesn't the EUSSR do something useful, like getting out of people's lives, instead of coming up with more and more ways to interfere?

Re:Symbols (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473740)

You're not a wine drinker, are you? I'll make it simple, you order european cola, you get cola, you order australian cola, you get fanta. Now you'll order cola, and get cola.

Re:Symbols (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473804)

but I wanted quality cola produced in Australia, not that cheap rubbish from some place recently rebranded as europe.

Re:Symbols (1)

gringer (252588) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473976)

you order european cola, you get cola, you order australian cola, you get fanta. Now you'll order cola, and get cola.

I think it's probably closer to this:

You order European Coke, you get Coke [Coca cola]
You order American Coke, you get Pepsi [Pepsi cola]
You order Canadian Coke, you get OpenCola [For all those FOSS zealots out there]

Now you order Coke, you get Coca cola

Fanta and Cola are a bit too different from each other that people who aren't particularly good with flavours would actually notice.

Re:Symbols (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474084)

Fanta was created for and by Nazi's... not kidding at all here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanta [wikipedia.org] )

You Europeans can keep Fanta, but Coke and Pepsi are both American.

Re:Symbols (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474180)

Maybe you should actually have read that article you linked to. Fanta was invented neither for nor by the Nazis, but by the German part of the Coca Cola Company. The only influence the Nazis had was that they forbid importing Coca Cola, so the German company had to find something else to sell.

BTW, from the article I gather that in America you don't actually get the real Fanta, but something which doesn't even contain orange juice.

Re:Symbols (0)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473802)

The current system, where any wine producer can just stick any place name on their wine, doesn't make sense.

It'd be like seeing something labeled "Scottish salmon", when in fact it was caught and processed in Norway.

Considering there are other ways to label wine (grape variety, for example), I'm glad that common sense is being imposed. Not that I care very much really, but I'm certainly not against such an outbreak of common sense.

Re:Symbols (2, Insightful)

gabebear (251933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474106)

The current system, where any wine producer can just stick any place name on their wine, doesn't make sense.

It'd be like seeing something labeled "Scottish salmon", when in fact it was caught and processed in Norway.

That's not the current system, If you labeled salmon caught in Norway as Scottish, then you would be breaking the law. Wine names have never meant that the wine came from a specific region, you have to label where your wine is coming from(which is a much more common-sense way to figure out where wine is coming from).

I'm glad that common sense is being imposed. Not that I care very much really, but I'm certainly not against such an outbreak of common sense.

Common-sense is imposing the meaning of words from a group of self-important countries half-way around the world on your citizens?

Re:Symbols (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473836)

would you be happy if you ordered a scotch and instead got some $9/bottle shit whiskey like fleishmanns

Re:Symbols (1)

pthisis (27352) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474182)

would you be happy if you ordered a scotch and instead got some $9/bottle shit whiskey like fleishmanns

I'd be happier if I ordered Scotch and got Yamazaki (or even Connemara) than Famous Grouse or J&B.

More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (5, Insightful)

CuteSteveJobs (1343851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473798)

This is ridiculous. If I buy a Chablis or a Burgundy I want a particular type of wine. So what that these wines originated in certain regions in France? I don't give a damn where it was made. I would say most people who drink them don't know or care either. The end result is that if I buy a Chablis in Australia they will need to call it "dry white". This doesn't help consumers, but it does help some wine producers in France trying to get a monopoly. I'm told by a French friend who is a wine buff that the Aussie wines he can buy are superior to French wines (seriously), so this makes the whole thing sound like a ploy to recapture an ailing market.

Banning moselle, port, and sherry? What idiot agreed to this? (BTW I thank OP for not capitalising the first letter of these very generic names.)

I suggest Aussie wine makers label their bottles "Not moselle", "Not port", "Not sherry". Nice way to thumb their noses at certain diary product-eating pacifist primates and the bureaucrats who agreed to this.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (4, Informative)

KozmoStevnNaut (630146) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473858)

I'm told by a French friend who is a wine buff that the Aussie wines he can buy are superior to French wines (seriously)

I'm not a wine buff, but I've found that Australian, Chilean, South African and Californian wines are generally both better and cheaper than French wines. There are some really great French wines, but 99% of them are overrated.

When it comes to European wine, I prefer Italian anyway.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474012)

Good for you. Wouldn't it be great if these wines were actually marketed such that you can make that distinction? That's what this is about.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1)

loufoque (1400831) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474052)

I'm not a wine buff, but I've found that Australian, Chilean, South African and Californian wines are generally both better and cheaper than French wines.

Australian, Chilean, South African and Californian wines are better value for money than French ones.
No need to be a be a wine buff to realize that.

It is because the French cannot compete in terms of value for money that they want to protect their appellations.
What they can compete in is in terms of quality, and their Appellations d'Origine Contrôlée certify that the product matches what the name represents, providing quality control consumers have access to.

Now, that doesn't mean all French wines are good; they need to have a good appellation to be. I'd expect a lot of crappy wine to be sold overseas, trying to be popular just by being from France.
Note also that decent French wine is really expensive outside of France. I'd recommend other origins if you're looking for something under the $30 mark.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474062)

That's largely because French Vineyards have been coasting for sometime on their previous reputation. In Germany for instance it wouldn't be considered acceptable to mix grapes from different portions of the vineyard because of subtle changes in the soil depending upon where precisely it is. Even here in the US, the wine industry has been getting extremely serious about it in recent years. And IIRC that's not just California either, other parts of the US as well. Then there's the other nations you mention, with the price going down and the increased competition the French produces have been forced to basically dump a lot of wine essentially down the drain as they sell it for conversion into alcohol for medical and lab use.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473870)

well, Port is the name of the city from where Port wine comes from. And the same goes for many of those names. Of course it is wrong to call a wine Port when it doesn't come from where it says! It's the same as if someone started labelling their products "proudly made in the US" when they weren't, as long it still "felt like a u.s. product" (which is basically your argument).

The generic name for Port-like wines is "fortified wine" and not "Port". "Scotch whiskey" is whiskey that comes from Scotland, and not a generic name of a drink. Champagne is a "sparkling wine" that comes from Champagne. It's not that hard to understand.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (0)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474036)

well, Port is the name of the city from where Port wine comes from.

No it isn't.

The generic name for Port-like wines is "fortified wine" and not "Port".

Perhaps it is if you can't tell the difference between Wine, Sherry, Muscat ...

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474142)

No, you are wrong. From the wikipedia article:

The wine received its name, "Port", in the latter half of the 17th century from the seaport city of Porto at the mouth of the Douro River, where much of the product was brought to market or for export to other countries in Europe.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (3, Insightful)

Melkhior (169823) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473888)

If I buy a Chablis or a Burgundy I want a particular type of wine. So what that these wines originated in certain regions in France?

They didn't "originate". If it's a burgundy, then it hast to come from the region of Burgundy. It's that simple. Also, for the record: if you buy a Chablis, you also buy a Burgundy. Chablis is a sub-region of Burgundy.

I don't give a damn where it was made. I would say most people who drink them don't know or care either.

Some of us haven't ruined their taste buds with bad beers and ketchup sauce, so we do care. Where the wine was produced makes a lot of difference to the taste. If you can't tell the difference, please go back to drinking Budweiser.

I'm told by a French friend who is a wine buff that the Aussie wines he can buy are superior to French wines (seriously), so this makes the whole thing sound like a ploy to recapture an ailing market.

There is no such thing as "superior", either way. There is such as thing as "different". Then it's a matter of taste. Australia, California, Chile, Algeria all make very good wines. They just aren't Burgundy, or Champagne. Would you expect a "Scotch Whisky" to come from Polland? Obviously no. It doesn't preclude Japanese to make great Single Malt Whiskies. They just don't make Scotch Whiskies. Think of it as a trademark, shared by all the producers from one geographic region. You can't buy a Macintosh from Hewlett-Packard, can you? So why should you be able to buy a Burgundy from someone that isn't located in the region of Burgundy, and therefore doesn't share in the trademark?

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (5, Informative)

bheer (633842) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473928)

> Some of us haven't ruined their taste buds with bad beers and ketchup sauce, so we do care.

But would you be able to prove that you can detect geographic differences in a double-blind taste test [winetastingguy.com] ?

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474076)

That's a red herring. Brands involve more than just taste. Quality control, continuity, rules governing production, etc. are all part of the brand, even if you can't tell a difference by tasting just one bottle. A sneaker clone from China may be exactly like a Nike sneaker (and actually originate in the same factory as after-hours production). They still can't call them "Nike" shoes.

Trademarks are important. Without trademark protection, building and maintaining a reputation would be much harder. If manufacturers have less incentive to build reputation, they have less incentive to make quality products. Trademarks, even though they are primarily a marketing instrument, also protect consumers, both short term and long term.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (3, Informative)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474068)

Wow, ketchup is a surprisingly complex taste. But I wouldn't expect you to know that. Besides, what about Champagne, Switzerland, under your theory it wasn't legitimate for them to call their sparkling wine champagne, even though they've been doing it for centuries prior to being told they had to stop recently. There must've been some confusion. But thank goodness that French said non, because now wine connoisseurs won't have to read the label closely, wait, this doesn't actually help that as different portions of that region aren't identical every year?

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474168)

> Wow, ketchup is a surprisingly complex taste.

In general? really?
Is it the tomato concentrate, the corn syrup, the vinegar, or the other spices that make it complex to you?

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1)

GodWasAnAlien (206300) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474110)

> Some of us haven't ruined their taste buds with bad beers ... If you can't tell the difference, please go back to drinking Budweiser.

You mean the fake Budweiser sold in the US, or beer sold in eské Budjovice (German: Budweis) in the Czech Republic?

AOC (1)

aepervius (535155) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473898)

Appelation Origin Controlled. It is a standard which emans that not only a specific recept was used, but the product come from a specific region. One can protest against such a label and standard but it is as they exists. When some people buy champagne they *expect* it to come from the region of champagne, and if it comes from california they feel themselves cheated. Personally I agree with you, I care only for the taste not the country it was made in, but some people do, expect AOC label to be respected. IMHO if the label simply said "champagne made in Australia" rather than "champagne" and in extremly small character "made in australia" the problem would not be there. But most of those "made in" are in character pica 5 or 4, that you have to hunt on the bottle. Think "fine print".

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1, Troll)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473936)

Or Not Tokay.
Except it is.

I don't exactly understand what this law is supposed to protect.

No, in fact I do know what this law is supposed to protect. You buy Tokay and you know that's from a very narrow strip of land(30 km wide) somewhere in Europe. Hungary, I'd venture. What is that supposed to tell you? Quality? Tradition? I still remember the wine scandals of the 80ies, 90ies and whatever you are supposed to call the 2000s. Tradition and location doesn't rule out fraud and criminal food poisoning, but it has a pretty colour.

You see, a couple of colonials nicked a few plants and put them into Californian soil. They had the guts to improve the wine making process in a way even the French couldn't keep their eyes shut to. The Gallo brothers did more for wine than the whole of Europe did for a couple of centuries.

The name should apply to the process, to the quality, the ingredients and not the people who spray DDT on anything that might ruin their profit margins.

Pity California and Australia and South Africa(Shiraz!!!111eleven) have to struggle so much to put themselves on the map. I don't trust all those Chateaeux Le Snoot, Saint Emilion and generic French Le Label any more than your lawyer.

Luckily I live at the banks of the Rhine and I have plenty to choose from when I buy locally.

News for nerds? Only thing more nerdy than wine is collecting stamps and having a favourite operating system(which, as we all know, would be OS/2).

Marketing would be my guess (1, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473982)

The US, Australia, and others have gotten really good at making wines. Good likes winning top awards at international festivals good. This pisses off the French. Wine was supposed to be THEIR thing. When the Americans first started making wine they were supportive because they thought it was cute. "Oh you go and make your cheap wine, it is much worse than ours but it is ok for cheap stuff." Then American wine started beating theirs and they got huffy.

That is somethign that has always perplexed me about alcohol is this bullshit protection of brands by area. For example did you know you can't buy a non-American bourbon? You can buy whiskey from all around the world, but bourbon is only American. This isn't because there is some magic secret to making it, but because it is a protected term for the US. So if you made it somewhere else, you'd have to find another name for it. Doesn't matter if it was 100% the same as American bourbon (which is more or less just a whiskey made with mostly corn and aged in fresh oak barrels) you'd have to find a new name.

All this shit is really stupid if you asked me. Wines should be known by their common names. I don't care if that's where they came from first, that doesn't matter. Any one should be allowed to make any kind of spirit and call it that provided it meets the criteria. The country of origin shouldn't be a criteria, only the process of production.

Truth in advertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473990)

Don't call your wine a Burgundy if it doesn't come from Burgundy. Doing so would be exploiting someone elses reputation. If your wine is any good, build your own name and compete based on quality instead of mimicking someone else's brand. For example, "Moselle" is not generic. It's the name of a river [wikipedia.org] in France and Germany. Calling a wine Moselle means it comes from that region. If you use a classification based on origin, use it truthfully.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473992)

I have heard that some of these Europeans are so arrogant that they named their towns after their grand crus. The nerve!

We are similar. When I buy a Chablis I want a specific kind of wine: a wine made in the area around the village of Chablis, and produced according to the rules of the controlled denomination of that area. Granted, the denomination only guarantees the process, not the result, but that's all we have.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (4, Insightful)

lakeland (218447) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473998)

I think you've missed the point. The purpose of the names like Bordeaux, Burgundy, Chianti, etc. is not to tell you that it is good, though it does usally tell you that it is at least ok. It is to tell you that it is in the style that the area is famous for. An Australian Pinot Noir might be stunning, but you can't meaningfully call it Burgundy because it isn't that style. It might be better than every wine made in Burgundy, but it still _isn't_ burgundy.

If Australia's winemakers ever cooperate enough to develop a distinct style that's consistent along say the Barossa valley say then by all means call it Barossa wine instead of Shiraz. But until then, I think it's much clearer to talk about the quality of Australian wine and use a generic name like Chardonnay rather than the name of a region in France that probably does not stylistically match the Australian wine anyway.

Even the Europeans do this. If you are making wine in Chianti and want to do something differently then you _cannot_ call your wine Chianti - because it isn't wine made in the style of that region. What it means is that when you pick up a bottle of Chianti, you know what you're buying (though not the quality). Australian Chardonnay could be anything, from a subtle unoaked variety to a monster.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1)

cuby (832037) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474002)

yeah right. So, imagine you are in Australia, you decide to produce, lets say... Port. From your point of view you obviously have the right to use the name Port even if its based in the name of a Portuguese city and is famous because 250 years of refinement made it that way... Your contribution to that? Earn money over generations of other peoples work and not giving anything back. Move to Portugal, Make Port over there.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474048)

Let there be no doubt as to where monopolies come from. Blaming businesses for bribing government officials is like blaming malware for infecting operating systems. In this case, you don't even need an OS. A wine producer is making his product with his own property, and using whatever names he damn well pleases isn't harming anyone.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474100)

A wine producer is making his product with his own property, and using whatever names he damn well pleases isn't harming anyone.

Are you serious? Should Samsung be allowed to call their phones Nokia just because they produce them on their own? Names that don't mislead consumers are important - both for consumers and for all self-respecting producers.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474112)

It's the same with vodka. Vodka is a Slavic word, the first ever recorded use of the word was in 1405 in Poland. Historically, this alcoholic-proof standard derives from the Russian vodka quality standards established by Tsar Alexander III in 1894. Hence strictly speaking only alcoholic beverages made from grain or potatoes in Slavic countries and Lithuania should be allowed to use the name 'vodka'. Everyone else including Sweden and Finland should be able to make any alcoholic beverage of their choice but not be able to name it 'vodka'. Recent EU legislation, despite venomous response from southern Europe, has forced vodka producers who do not use grain or potatoes to list the ingredients but they are still permitted to market their beverage as vodka. If the French want to restrict the use of champagne, burgundy and other drinks then vodka too, should become more restrictive. This is a double standard of course.

Re:More EU stupidity. More AU cowtowing. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33474178)

Where do "All-American Pizza" get made?

Why can't I put "Made in China" on my own products?

Why should you be able to say "this is a Chablis" even though it has nothing to do with the region?

Geeky wine lawyer raises a glass on Slashdot! (1)

Morgaine (4316) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473814)

I'm not sure what a 2L law student and wine law enthusiast is doing posting to Slashdot, but given the legendary inability of most Slashdotters to gain the attention of the fairer sex, I'd say Lindsey could be a hit!

Move over NYCL, you've met your match. :-)

Aussie! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33473940)

Aussie!

Re:Aussie! (1)

jasontheking (124650) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473986)

oi!

Sticking to "fortified" wine (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473946)

See this is why I stay with Mad Dog 20/20, never changed it's name, never will! (Considering a large portion of its customer base is illiterate and/or too drunk to read anyhow it wouldn't really matter but....)

Re:Sticking to "fortified" wine (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474108)

What's the word? Thunderbird! What's the action? Satisfaction! What's the price? Fifty cents twice!

Back in my university days, a lot of eating clubs and other student organizations were holding "French wine & Cheese" parties. My club countered with a "Wines of the Bowery Night." It featured amoung Mad Dog 20/20, other such favorites as Thunderbird and Night Train. They tasted very god-awful, but after a few swigs, you were too toasted to really give a damn.

I think everyone there remembered having a good time, but no one really remembered much.

Now, what was that drink that the club served called, "The Vulcan Mind Probe" . . .

Pf, Wine (3, Insightful)

GeniusDex (803759) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473964)

Decent people drink beer, not wine. And since all good beer comes from Belgium, there is no need for geolocation of names.

P.S.: I know that good beer also comes from other countries, but accounting for that would require a different argument.

Re:Pf, Wine (1)

loufoque (1400831) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474074)

Even within Belgium, there are different areas specialized in different kind of beers.

I don't know about Belgium, but I know that there are 57 different wine appellations in the region around the French city of Bordeaux alone.

How about selling Debian = Linux ? (1)

gDLL (1413289) | more than 4 years ago | (#33473994)

Debian is based on Linux, so lets just rename the whole of Debian Linux and sell it under that name :) Embrace Extinguish.....

Australia - the rising world wine power! (1)

ignavus (213578) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474098)

I like the idea of Australia being a major wine power.

Suppose the US, China or Russia tried to attack us, being superior military powers.

We simply get their military drunk, and we win.

He who rules the vine, rules the world! Bwahahaha!

gREAT cASE (1)

AncalagonTotof (1025748) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474104)

[troll inside. Or not] I wonder ... Why are there so many upper case letters ? I thought only Germans put upper case letters at the beginning of all words. Not English ? So, why "Australia Adopts EU's Geographical Indicator System For Wine" ? And then, why only one in "amontillado, Auslese, burgundy, chablis, champagne, claret, marsala, moselle, port, and sherry". I think these words would deserve some, don't you think ? That's what I've been taught. May be I'm wrong, I'm French ... [end of troll inside. Or not]

Tech News? (2)

lloydsmart (962848) | more than 4 years ago | (#33474134)

Er... what am I missing here, why the heck is this story even on Slashdot, which is primarily a technology news site?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?