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ACTA Text Leaks; US Caves On ISPs, Seeks Super-DMCA

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the you-say-leak-I-say-trial-balloon dept.

The Internet 246

An anonymous reader writes "Given the history of ACTA leaks, to no one's surprise, the latest version of the draft agreement (PDF) was leaked last night on KEI's website. The new version — which reflects changes made during an intense week of negotiations last month in Washington — shows a draft agreement that is much closer to becoming reality. Perhaps the most important story of the latest draft is how the countries are close to agreement on the Internet enforcement chapter. In the face of opposition, the US has dropped its demands on secondary liability for ISPs but is still holding out hope of establishing a super-DMCA with digital lock rules that go beyond the WIPO Internet treaties and were even rejected by US courts."

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Copyright Law Reform (4, Insightful)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488318)

We only get once chance to defeat ACTA.

Re:Copyright Law Reform (5, Insightful)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488426)

Unless we defeat it. Then we'll get another chance, ad infinitum, like one of those timeless creatures of evil that will never truly die.

Re:Copyright Law Reform (1)

capnkr (1153623) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488830)

Unless we defeat it. Then we'll get another chance, ad infinitum, like one of those timeless creatures of evil that will never truly die.

Dammit. I thought we'd heard the last of SCO and Darl...

Re:Copyright Law Reform (2, Insightful)

macraig (621737) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489186)

True evil is always Undead.

Re:Copyright Law Reform (1, Informative)

daem0n1x (748565) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488434)

Hey, you should be glad you don't live in Cuba, with all that Internet censorship and vigilance. Democracy rules!

You can't have it both ways. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488440)

Do you want the US to have a strong economy, or not?

Information is our primary export. If we can't force other countries to pay us for this stuff, not only will we lose our position of dominance in the global economy, but our own economy will suffer horribly. You think stock returns are bad now? You think unemployment is high now? Just wait. If America can't get control of information soon, we are royally screwed.

Re:You can't have it both ways. (1)

haploc (57693) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488476)

If America can't get control of information soon, we are royally screwed.

Don't bet all your eggs in the same basket.

Re:You can't have it both ways. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488660)

Do you want the US to have a strong economy, or not?

Not.

Information is our primary export. If we can't force other countries to pay us for this stuff, not only will we lose our position of dominance in the global economy, but our own economy will suffer horribly. You think stock returns are bad now? You think unemployment is high now? Just wait. If America can't get control of information soon, we are royally screwed.

Sucks to be you. You can for example start selling nukes. This should provide enough money for some time.

Re:You can't have it both ways. (3, Insightful)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488758)

Your ass, dude. It's not like the United States is the Lone Ranger, riding at the cutting edge of technology, all alone. FFS, pimple faced kids around the world manage to hack into the Department of Defense computers. Our high tech people sweat at night, worrying about China hacking into their computers. Information your ass. Our PRIMARY export right now is "entertainment". The word is placed in quotations, because it is hardly entertaining to anyone with a lick of sense. Only the brainwashed, ignorant masses can actually PAY for the drivel pumped out from Hollywood and the music industries. I might consider paying them to STOP PRODUCING!

Re:You can't have it both ways. (1)

pantherace (165052) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489380)

Don't forget food and guns. The US exports a lot of those.

Re:You can't have it both ways. (2, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489046)

if you think information goes only one way then you don't understand any society.

Information is not just an export, but an import as well.

Re:Copyright Law Reform (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488516)

why should I care about ACTA? Every time this comes up on slashdot, everyone is against it, but I never see an explanation why.

Looking VERY briefly at the links, it looks like it is just an agreement between a bunch of countries that all participating countries will pass a DMCA-type law. The US already has a DMCA law, and if ACTA comes about, wouldn't that just mean that other countries have to have DMCA?

Also, at least for the US, has the 'chance to defeat' passed?

Re:Copyright Law Reform (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488554)

The US already has a DMCA law, and if ACTA comes about, wouldn't that just mean that other countries have to have DMCA?

Let me guess... you're American aren't you? Why should the rest of the world have to suffer under the same shitty IP regime you guys have?

Re:Copyright Law Reform (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488784)

DMCA has it all wrong to start with. A Super-DMCA will only be worse. And, even if I have to live with shitty, unethical laws, why should some kid in Rwanda, or New Zealand have to live with the same oppressive laws? "Also, at least for the US, has the 'chance to defeat' passed?" Not sure what you mean here - but I'm awfully damned sure that when all these criminals have "approved" of this treaty, then Congress will just rubber stamp the damned thing. They are actually doing an end run around the courts, embodying into a treaty things that the courts have already rejected as unconstitutional.

Re:Copyright Law Reform (1)

failedlogic (627314) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489048)

Are you American? If yes, then that is partly why you're not as concerned. There are many countries that don't have similar laws that are within ACTA, let alone DMCA type laws. Its also going to be much harder to defeat ACTA if copyright and IP laws are standardized across many countries.

Re:Copyright Law Reform (4, Insightful)

phoomp (1098855) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489074)

What is this "chance to defeat ACTA" of which you speak? The process has been specifically designed to keep us excluded it's too far along to change. At this point, the best we can hope for is wisdom from countries that are less concerned about the freedoms of their corporations and more concerned about the freedoms of their citizens.

Surely not (4, Funny)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488338)

ACTA Text Leaks

Surely not. That would be infringing their copyright.

Re:Surely not (3, Interesting)

Hardolaf (1371377) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488368)

105. Subject matter of copyright: United States Government works Copyright protection under this title is not available for any work of the United States Government, but the United States Government is not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or otherwise.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#105 [copyright.gov] It's not copyrighted.

Re:Surely not (1)

m.ducharme (1082683) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488788)

In the US.

Re:Surely not (1)

angelwolf71885 (1181671) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488688)

someone should patent something similar to the ACTA then sue the world for infringing on there patents

**sigh** (5, Insightful)

skyride (1436439) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488344)

The goverment officials dealing with this have absolutely no understanding of how this law will affect the world for generations to come.

We're getting awfully close to needing the 4th box...

Re:**sigh** (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488360)

The US isn't the world. China won't give a shit, and they are building the military hardware to allow them to continue not giving a shit for generations to come.

Re:**sigh** (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488414)

It's gonna be "funny", when China will be the new safe haven for western values, such as liberty.

Re:**sigh** (3, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488442)

In this one area, and mostly because if the Chinese people had to actually pay for the property like the rest of us they'd be much more likely to be pissed off about how the Chinese government is purposely keeping them in poverty.

Re:**sigh** (2, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488708)

It's gonna be "funny", when China will be the new safe haven for western values, such as liberty.

That would be funny. But it isn't going to happen. Instead, there will be NO safe haven for liberty. Just a boot, stomping on a human face, forever, as Orwell would have it.

Re:**sigh** (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488774)

China won't be the safe haven for liberty, they'll just have a different implementation of oppression.

Re:**sigh** (1)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488464)

ACTA is discussed by:

Australia, Canada, the European Union, Japan, Mexico, Morocco, New Zealand, the Republic of Korea, Singapore, Switzerland and the United States.

Which is pretty much the more important countries and factions of the world.

ACTA isn't JUST about internet filesharing, but also about counterfeint pharmacuticals and other stuff. So keep that in context/

Re:**sigh** (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488504)

Yeah it'll be used to deny people cheap generic drugs as well!

Re:**sigh** (5, Insightful)

nabsltd (1313397) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489376)

ACTA isn't JUST about internet filesharing, but also about counterfeint pharmacuticals and other stuff.

You, sir, are the dream of the ACTA negotiators.

The whole point of bundling "file sharing" with "counterfeit pharmaceuticals" is so that you can get the same sort of penalties for both. I don't think anyone will disagree that labeling sugar pills as some vital drug is a huge danger, but the way ACTA is written, a generic is also considered "counterfeit". Likewise all the following are treated the same by ACTA:

  • file sharing
  • copying DVDs
  • copying DVDs and selling them
  • creating your own DVD, labeling it as if it were the legitimate DVD and selling it

Re:**sigh** (3, Insightful)

rotide (1015173) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488374)

Sure they do. Their children, children's children, and so on will benefit from all the money the corporate lobbying has brought. Oh, you mean the world that also resides outside the paid for politicians? The officials don't really pay much attention unless it's election time. Damnit, I wish that was hyperbole.

Re:**sigh** (4, Insightful)

jonwil (467024) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488402)

The officials dont pay attention even when it IS election time (remember the US mid-term elections are comming up soon).

Heck, even if GOD himself came down from heaven, stood in front of congress and asked for an end to draconian copyright and IP policies, the congressmen and senators would STILL favor the large briefcases full of money they get from Disney, Fox, Warner, Paramount, Sony, Universal etc.

Re:**sigh** (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488376)

The goverment officials dealing with this have absolutely no understanding of how this law will affect the world for generations to come.

What makes you think any politician is interested in the future?

Re:**sigh** (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488598)

What makes you think any politician is interested in the future?

Oh they are VERY interested in the future, especially the interest today's bribes will generate in the future. Corrupt scumbags.

Time to get encryption working (3, Informative)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488380)

Now is really the time to get encrypted, decentralized networks with Onion routing working at a practical level and not just for academic enjoyment. I've had great expectations in GNUnet, but apparently it is pretty hard to port. Freenet has also never convinced me whenever I tried it. Are the technical obstacles really so hard to overcome? What about pervasive email encryption with automatic installation and more widespread use of SSL? What is holding all these technologies back?

Re:Time to get encryption working (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488472)

What's holding them back? Lack of need.
 
The underground thrives and flourishes when the day comes that people can't get by without it.

Re:Time to get encryption working (2, Interesting)

disi (1465053) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488496)

To run an Onion node is prohibited in several countries (e.g. in Germany).
just two examples:
German police raid home of man who operated Tor server [theregister.co.uk]
German Cops Raid Home of Wikileaks and Tor Volunteer [wired.com]
I heard of others in forums, where the police put down whole server farms -.-
welcome to the real world...

Re:Time to get encryption working (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488634)

Its unwelcome but not prohibited yet.

Re:Time to get encryption working (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488510)

Mainly issue holding use back: wide adoption need for it to be useful.

No regulations for crypto from government, cause they do want to keep reading our communication. Why push for security when that makes It harder for yourself?

People need to understand that they should choose SSL when available and then force more and more sites to use SSL. Then we should switch to some soft of onion routing, and force site after site to switch.. but this requires the users to switch.. and that will never happen :-/

Re:Time to get encryption working (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488518)

Not being turned on by default in any of the major os installs?

If gmail, outlook, and whatever gets used on ox and ubuntu had it enabled by default, so that the public key was attached to every email sent to new address, and every address with a known public key got a encrypted mail, then perhaps it would happen.

But as it is, people have to make a conscious choice about using encrypted email, and so it just do not happen. Hell, people do not use seat belts even tho it takes perhaps just a extra second or two, and you expect them to use encrypted email by personal choice rather then default?

Re:Time to get encryption working (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488556)

Encrypted is not really complicated, use https sites and turn encryption on in your torrent client. Anonymity is hard, really hard. For open P2P networks encryption without anonymity doesn't really help anything, everyone can connect and collect data as a peer. Some of the issues are:

1. Anything like TOR and Freenet has lots of overhead due to relaying
2. Latency is also hurt, and it's also dangerous for timing attacks
3. You can collect statistical data, it's difficult to hide patterns
4. You can "isolate" nodes and then track all their traffic

On top of that, you get endless amounts of flak for being a "free haven" for all sorts of $boogeymen. That drives away developers, users, funding, everything. Many people would actually prefer they caught "real" criminals rather than create the true information anarchy. Total anonymity means no consequences, so on top of those you get endless waves of spam and trolls and they can post far more offensive things than they could on slashdot. If someone created it, you would long for the good old days when the worst you could get linked to is the goatse.cx guy.

Re:Time to get encryption working (1)

thijsh (910751) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488602)

Problems holding this back now:
- Onion routing: has too little exit nodes and too many hops severely reducing the available bandwidth. The throughput and latency are too high to replace the internet for anything but basic sites and communication.
- Pervasive email encryption: requires cooperation from a lot of parties, who have their own interest in reading your mail (Google with advertising for example). It will only work when you can reliably send encrypted mail to anyone and know for sure they will be able to read it.
- More widespread use of SSL: requires self-signed certificates to be accepted by mayor browsers as an intermediate security between insecure HTTP and validated HTTPS. Currently they are all unwilling to recognize SSC HTTPS as 'somewhat more secure than HTTP'.
- VPN darknet: requires relatively expensive centralized infrastructure to be of any useful size, although you could create an internet of smaller darknets by some means of VPN peering. But you might run into bandwidth issues again...

I do not know any other factors that hold these technologies back from the top of my head now, but i'm fairly sure some other Slashdotters can amend (and no doubt correct) this list.

Re:Time to get encryption working (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489000)

Another problem with end-to-end encryption of email is that it is largely incompatible with webmail. My mail server uses SMTPS and IMAPS to talk to my client. It will talk TLS to any remote mail server that supports the STARTTLS extension. The only parties that can intercept mail sent in this way are those operating the servers, those who compromise the server, and those who compromise either the sending or receiving client. If you use end-to-end encryption, you reduce this to those who compromise the clients. If you add webmail back in then the sending and receiving clients become the sending and receiving server - you need to store your key on the server (or provide the key at each login to some code provided by the server), so you don't get any more security than if the you use HTTPS for the webmail and SMTPS for inter-server communication. The person operating the webmail server can still read your emails.

One option that you leave out is IPsec with keys public distributed via DNS. Now that DNSSEC is enabled in the root zone, it's possible to deploy a DNS record containing the IPsec key for a machine. You can then establish a secure encrypted connection to that machine at the IP layer, underneath any other protocol.

Re:Time to get encryption working (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489304)

SSC is only more secure if you've exchanged keys offline, otherwise it doesn't protect against MITM attacks. Somewhat more secure? Maybe, but still wide open.

Encryption wont protect you from informants. (3, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488624)

Now is really the time to get encrypted, decentralized networks with Onion routing working at a practical level and not just for academic enjoyment. I've had great expectations in GNUnet, but apparently it is pretty hard to port. Freenet has also never convinced me whenever I tried it. Are the technical obstacles really so hard to overcome? What about pervasive email encryption with automatic installation and more widespread use of SSL? What is holding all these technologies back?

Once something is made significantly illegal and if the government is motivated enough, they'll pay their informants to infiltrate your private encrypted network and capture the IP addresses that way. The informants will host the exit nodes.

Re:Encryption wont protect you from informants. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33489298)

You can't trace someone on TOR or Freenet just by holding the exit nodes.

There are still ways to trace someone though. For example,

1. Release 'pirate' music in WMA format with an embedded DRM licence request. As soon as WMP opens such a file, it'll contact the server specified in the file to request a licence - your tracking server.
2. Release 'pirate' software with a phone-home bug added.
3. The Google-Fu. Search through your target's postings. Do they mention a state? A pet name? Do their post timeings never include school hours? A hundred little bits of trivia can be put together into a complete picture which may be of use in locating them. Due to the amount of effort this takes, it won't be used on the low-level targets. But if you do something that justifies extreme effort, like release the tool that cracks the successor to blu-ray, then no expense will be spared. A simple blu-ray rip will easily reveal the country of origin, by the video standard, logos present and exactly which scenes were cut to comply with local censorship laws.
4. Social. Have your agent make contact 'accidentially' and build up a relationship. It may take a while, but you only have to to get the target to agree to follow one single web link to get a fix.

Re:Time to get encryption working (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488786)

What is holding all these technologies back?

The possibility of being flogged for your password? The fact that your ISP can simply drop encrypted bits? You still need a reliable and secure medium to transmit. That does not exist yet. The real obstacles are political, not technical.

You forgot one little deal. (1)

sidragon.net (1238654) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488852)

Reality [xkcd.com] .

Re:Time to get encryption working (1)

pyrosine (1787666) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489224)

Check out anomos for encrpyted, anonymous file sharing

And of course... (3, Funny)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488416)

Since this effects all of us in a huge way, there will be some sort of referendum which will see what the PEOPLE want and not just the corporation-bribed governments.

Experts say it'll happen on the 30th of Feburary at Half Past Never.

Re:And of course... (4, Interesting)

v1 (525388) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488438)

Not that it's surprising that this happens, but it is a bit surprising that our "diplomats" are allowed to sign agreements that our own court system has already determined to be illegal. Though in this instance it appears they're not just signing off on it, but pushing for it.

Should try them for treason when they get back stateside ;)

Re:And of course... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488816)

They can sign whatever they like. Has absolutely no legal barring. Treaties only enter into force once ratified by the Senate.

American Idea (1)

andersh (229403) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489162)

Who cares if your American diplomats sign any agreements, it's your government that created and is forcing ACTA on the majority of the world!

It's not "treason" when your country desires it, at least your court system still believes the US is a republic. For how long is another question.

Re:And of course... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488978)

Since this effects all of us in a huge way, there will be some sort of referendum which will see what the PEOPLE want and not just the corporation-bribed governments.

Experts say it'll happen on the 30th of Feburary at Half Past Never.

check your "experts" again - that date doesn't exist

terrible effects for software patents (4, Informative)

ciaran_o_riordan (662132) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488458)

ACTA has many bad parts, such as entrenching DRM and the deadly effects of pharmaceutical patents, but it also has terrible effects for software patents:

http://en.swpat.org/wiki/ACTA_and_software_patents [swpat.org]

http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Criminalising_patent_infringement_is_draconian [swpat.org]

YOU VOTED FOR THIS (0, Flamebait)

Lawrence_Bird (67278) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488474)

You voted for this crap (slashdot is overwhelmingly democrat). It started with Clinton and DMCA and now you have OBAMA ("transparent", "change you can believe in") doing this crap (and behind closed doors to boot). Bend over and say again how much you love getting fucked by your boys.

There is ZERO push back against this. None. No press. No protests. No letter writing. Zero. It will become law unless you take your head out of the sand and say something anywhere but slashdot.

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (1)

magamiako1 (1026318) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488524)

Actually, for the record, after reading the text and noting on Slashdot I promptly sent a note to both of my state Senators and my House Representative expressing my disliking of said measure.

Not to get too political here, but those of us in the know knew that this sort of thing was going to come up when we voted for Obama since we were well aware of Biden's industry-friendly attitude. Unfortunately, it was this or some of the worst, laughable "politicians" you could ever consider to be put into a Presidential Office. Either way, I'm still glad that the alternative did not make it into office.

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (3, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488674)

Not to get too political here, but those of us in the know knew that this sort of thing was going to come up when we voted for Obama since we were well aware of Biden's industry-friendly attitude. Unfortunately, it was this or some of the worst, laughable "politicians" you could ever consider to be put into a Presidential Office. Either way, I'm still glad that the alternative did not make it into office.

Particularly since the alternative would have done exactly the same thing.

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488558)

You cock-smoking closet replifags did your part as well. It was the same under the last commander-in-dipshit. There are no political parties, only brainwashed voters.

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (4, Interesting)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488562)

Why do you blame Democrats for the DMCA? The bill was introduced into the House by a Republican [wikipedia.org] , it faced pretty much zero Republican opposition in the House and had unanimous support in the Senate. Oh and let's not forget that the current head of the RIAA is a former Republican staffer and GOP lobbyist. So exactly why is it the Democrats fault despite the fact that this bill was introduced and had basically universal support from the Republicans in Congress?

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488678)

Because ALL politicians are dirtbags. Republican fault? Yes. Democrat fault? Yes. Remember, Clinton signed DMCA into law. Remember his party? Yes, the dirtbag one.

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488694)

Partisians don't care about progress, just blaming the other side.

No I did not (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488642)

Some of us are aliens who do not even live in the USA. And we certainly did not vote for a world-wide police state.

Re:No I did not (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488740)

Wow! Well you just gave the lie to the conceit in the US and Hollywood that the aliens would only ever decide to visit (or attack) in America!

Re:YOU VOTED FOR THIS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488798)

Fuck Democrats. Fuck Republicans. Libertarian here.

Hope and Change! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488498)

Obama has his dick firmly in your ass, Slashdorks. What was all that bullshit about the Democrats being so different? What was all that shit about going from one big party to the other big party would be like a Renaissance of the modern era? This couldn't have happened to dumber people.

BTW: How's the repeal of the PATRIOT Act going? LOLZ!!!!

Vote on your Pirate Party (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33488534)

It's the only way to change things. Get the PP large enough that the bastards in the other parties have to deal with it, which they'll do by co-opting their politics. It's what they always do when smaller parties come in and threaten the nice 50/50 balance the block have set up.

Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1, Interesting)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488566)

This has to be drilled into everybody's heads.

Copyrights and patents must be abolished, they are part of the death of economies, just like governments regulations, taxes, subsidies, wars, corporate involvement, corruption, stimulus borrowing/printing/spending and bailouts.

All of the above things are killing the economies, these things are making industrialized world uncompetitive and jobs are leaving and no amount of cash can be spent to make the industrialized world competitive again ever because the reason cannot be simply removed by spending.

The reason of the underlying structural breakage of economy is lack of useful production/manufacturing jobs, whose loss has resulted from lack of competitiveness. Competition is the only correct solution to this problem, and copyrights, patents, regulations, wage laws, taxes, subsidies, bailouts, stimulus, wars, corporate corruption are all tied to one main entity: government.

Government is the ultimate force with the power to compel people to do what they do not want to do, and it does so because it craves power, through people who join the government because they crave power, and for them gov't is the ultimate way to get power and money by sharing with corporate friends.

Government involvement in economy must be removed completely and that is the only way to remove incentives to corrupt the government, spending all the money in the world on buying the gov't should NOT buy you a free ride and destruction and structural removal of any competition.

This comment is the actual answer to the question: what the fuck happened to the economy?

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (5, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488654)

This has to be drilled into everybody's heads.

Copyrights and patents must be abolished, they are part of the death of economies, just like governments regulations, taxes, subsidies, wars, corporate involvement, corruption, stimulus borrowing/printing/spending and bailouts.

All of the above things are killing the economies, these things are making industrialized world uncompetitive and jobs are leaving and no amount of cash can be spent to make the industrialized world competitive again ever because the reason cannot be simply removed by spending.

The reason of the underlying structural breakage of economy is lack of useful production/manufacturing jobs, whose loss has resulted from lack of competitiveness. Competition is the only correct solution to this problem, and copyrights, patents, regulations, wage laws, taxes, subsidies, bailouts, stimulus, wars, corporate corruption are all tied to one main entity: government.

Government is the ultimate force with the power to compel people to do what they do not want to do, and it does so because it craves power, through people who join the government because they crave power, and for them gov't is the ultimate way to get power and money by sharing with corporate friends.

Government involvement in economy must be removed completely and that is the only way to remove incentives to corrupt the government, spending all the money in the world on buying the gov't should NOT buy you a free ride and destruction and structural removal of any competition.

This comment is the actual answer to the question: what the fuck happened to the economy?

That is unrealistic. Copyright and patents should not be abolished. They just shouldn't last forever. They should last X amount of years that society agrees upon, not an arbitrary number decided by the copyright holders themselves but a number of years decided by that individual culture or that society.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (4, Interesting)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488664)

it's called a crisis. In a crisis situation rules change, if they don't then that 'unrealistic' situation will actually meet reality, and reality will win, and there will be no economy left to speak of, while the rest of the world would just completely ignore any position a country, whose economy fell apart takes, and they'd be correct not to care. Losers do not tell winners what to do.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

sexybomber (740588) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488718)

Losers do not tell winners what to do.

No, they just whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33489264)

Yes. Countries that have economies, economies that actually make stuff and sell it have money. Making up a bunch of bull shit rules about basically nothing is really, just nothing. There is really only 1 country that cares about all this. I understand that that countries economy is otherwise, tanking. Do real people benefit from these rules? No. Some large corporation benefits. What about people working for them? There are only 50 people working for them, and the bosses are roughly half of those people, and they take 95%. Shareholders (mostly other corporations) also own stakes. They benefit too. All of these rules basically benefit about 2000 people worldwide. There are 7 billion people on the planet, and they are being dictated to by 2000. Are they really 3500000 times as important as you? They have 3500000 times as much money as you, but their 'specialness' is questionable. The only reason they have 3500000 times as much money as you is because they have had the rules in their favor for such a long time. It has to end. Slashdot pact: Any government adopting this must *MUST* fall.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489018)

since my comments always go through a cycle of being moderated up and then down after a while (well, there are people who wait until nobody is reading further and then they moderate down) I am actually thanking you for quoting my comment completely before answering it and your comment will stay at above 4, so at least people will see what the thread is about.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

Requiem18th (742389) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489270)

Although I think that we need some people pushing hard for copyright abolition for balance.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488752)

Yes! We must get government out of the economy! Only THEN can we return to the glory days of the 1890s when every child could find a steady job!

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488780)

Your private union is your private matter. Having gov't imposed regulations simply undermines economy and kills competition, whatever the competition is. You are faced with reality: other economies are much more competitive and the reasons have been listed. It is really your choice.

The government is broke, USA cannot repay gov't debt, any single % point up in the t-bills (which are all short term) would result in 134billion dollars more of interest. The debt will NOT be repaid, it will be printed, so the dollar will be destroyed.

The GDP means nothing, it's a fake number, especially after all the bailouts and stimulus spending, the real number to look at is the trade imbalance, and that is where the information can be obtained about the health of economy and the picture is crystal clear.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488880)

Having gov't imposed regulations simply undermines economy and kills competition, whatever the competition is.

If there are indeed an infinite number of alternate universes in which every possible thing has happened, there may actually be one in which this statement is NOT painfully and obviously untrue to anyone with even the slightest knowledge of history, and indeed in which someone uttering it such as yourself has NOT entertainingly exposed himself as being a fucking moron.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488984)

I see, so saying that I am a 'fucking moron' clearly puts a historic perspective on my statement and makes it 'obviously untrue'. You have solved the mystery, good for you.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (2, Insightful)

siride (974284) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488882)

Competition can't solve pollution. Only regulations can. Competition had its chance and still has its chance and companies are STILL polluting.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488958)

You are just misunderstanding the problem.

The gov't owned property is nobody's property, so it can be polluted.

Gov't must NOT OWN PROPERTY, all property (ocean, land, air, radio spectrum, whatever) and assets, must be in private hands, and then any pollution problem would be solved between owner of the land anybody who'd attempt to destroy that property.

BP, as an example, got permission to drill in the Gulf, in fact over 30K drilling happened there, near 3000 oil drilling/producing rigs are there right now. Did anybody really decide to give them this right but your gov't? Your gov't is giving them the right to drill, it then removes the liability caps.

You think your gov't WILL protect your natural resources and your common land and air and water? NO.

Only an OWNER does that. As an owner do you come home and take huge DUMP in the middle of your kitchen? What if a guest came and did that, would you make sure he cleans up and maybe pays you some damages?

That is the ultimate problem, people have been brainwashed completely into this nonsense.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

siride (974284) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489020)

Well, companies are polluting privately owned property too. I don't even know why you went on this government owned property business because it's just simply not true and is irrelevant.

See, the problem you are having is that there is an imbalance in power between a company and all the people affected by it, who may not even know they are being affected. Sure, a single owner might be able to do something, or they might not. I mean, is a single owner going to be able to enforce that he doesn't want pollution coming into his property? How? Is he going to stand around all day waiting for the company to pollute and then shoot them? What if they pollute on someone else's property and it runs off into his? Only collective will can force a company to stop polluting everywhere for everyone's benefit. And that collective will is called, you guessed it, government.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489062)

You can pollute in your kitchen all you want, but if the pollutions spreads from your kitchen to a kitchen of a guy below you (say it's an apartment building) and you are leaking water and throwing sewage at him, he now has a reason to take you to court and it's between two property owners.

This problem you have, is that you want to stop a company from polluting on their property, I don't know why, it's their property. The real question is this: if your property is adjacent to his and you get the pollution spreading onto your territory, whether by ground, water or air, you now have the right to take that other owner to court.

That's the only reason to have a gov't:

1. Minimum military to protect against invasion.
2. Court system, justice system to allow people to resolve contract issues, property issues, things like that.
3. Prisons/cops.

Gov't has a role to play, people need a justice system, and a gov't that's not involved in economy and only has 3 roles can be kept in check and controlled to do those 3 jobs right. If you can't have a gov't doing 3 jobs right, what chance do you have in hell insuring it does 3 million jobs right?

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (2, Insightful)

siride (974284) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489174)

So I take the company to court and...what are they going to tell him? The only thing they can tell him is not to pollute on my property. Easy enough for them to deal with. They'll still be polluting on other people's property. They'll probably be polluting the water supply to. Well, I don't own the water supply, the water company does. And if the water company doesn't care, then I just have to deal with it. Maybe it pollutes the food supply. I don't own the food supply, so I can't do anything about that either. I just have to hope there are alternative water and food supplies that aren't polluted. Of course, you'd probably tell me that I need to sue the food and water companies for not providing pollution-free food and water. So now they need to sue the polluting company. And we have to wait for all this to work out. And it only solves the issue once. Next time they pollute, we have to go through the rigamarole all over again. I'm now spending all my time suing people who try to pollute instead of doing something useful.

Or, we could just have government regulations and have a set of people who have the legal authority to monitor pollution and force those who pollute to stop. Now I don't have to spend all day suing people and tracing where the pollution came from to sue the right people. It just gets done. It also helps all those other people who otherwise would have to individually sue the polluters or their food and water supply companies. It's simply more efficient and it actually solves the problem from here on out. Or at least it's closer to a solution. Companies will still try to pollute, but instead of waiting for the pollution to become a problem, it can be nipped in the bud with inspections and monitoring that are legally forced to be on their property, not yours. See, by the time the pollution is on your property, it's too late. The damage has been done. It's an entirely reactive instead of proactive process.

It's all fun and good to make a microkernel government and it's really easy to point out problems with the existing government structures. But the microkernel government doesn't work because it distributes work that should be done by a common public trust (the government) and tries to place entities that don't actually have equal power and resources into a situation where they are considered to be of equal power and resources. It's me versus a company now, instead of the public versus a company. And the former is a much tougher battle to fight.

What we out to do, instead of stripping the government of everything that makes it useful, is to find ways to keep private interests from infecting the government and let it go back to being a public good. That's really what the problem is. If injecting some libertarian principles in the mix would help, I'm all for it. But let's not kid ourselves and think that the government-as-contract-enforcer is actually a workable system in anything approaching the real world.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489390)

So I take the company to court and...what are they going to tell him? The only thing they can tell him is not to pollute on my property. Easy enough for them to deal with. They'll still be polluting on other people's property. They'll probably be polluting the water supply to.

- a working justice system, which I did not bother describing, would have more authority than 'just telling'.

You are caught with some trivial substances on you in most countries today, you can go to jail, and you didn't even hurt anybody. Why do I have to come up with an entire working justice system to make a point?

If your water supply is polluted you take it up with whoever provides you with your water, and they have to take it up with whoever pollutes it, why is that difficult to see? You probably can program some software, maybe something more than even trivial, is what I am proposing beyond logic?

As to polluters that cause entire communities to suffer, that where Action Class Lawsuits come into play. You sue the MOFO who fucked up the water collectively through the Justice dep't, and if he doesn't fix it immediately he gets shot down, that's what cops and prisons are for, again, same question as before applies...

Now I don't have to spend all day suing people and tracing where the pollution came from to sue the right people. It just gets done.

- really? Does it 'get done'? How many oil rigs have spilled over the decades, what is getting done? The millions of barrels of oil are out there, the damage IS done, your point is INVALID.

The gov't DOES NOT CARE about your public common property! You do not see it? You really really really do not see it? It doesn't care! If it cared, there would be no liability caps, there would be real inspections, etc. But gov't cannot and will not inspect things, because it is unprofitable for politicians to do the work that you THINK they must do, they don't think so, it's NOT what they think of their work, they don't care, it's NOT THEIR PROPERTY!

I was born in the USSR, the property that does not belong to you, but belongs to gov't is nobodies property, people knew it and they destroyed and stole and didn't want to work and cheated, etc. It's just common sense, if you are NOT the owner you don't care, and nobody in gov't is the owner.

It's the same as for large gov't created monopolies, the CEOs are NOT owners, they don't care about anything but their own pockets, so they make sure to line their pockets and they leave mess and destruction behind. HP Fiorina is a good example when compared to the original Hewlett and Packard who started the company. Who CARED MORE? Hewlett and Packard or Fiorina?

It's the same exact precise principle at work, until you have an actual OWNER you won't see any changes at all.

The only single working way to fix the problem is to get all powers of gov't away from gov't except for the bare minimum I have described, which is then controlled by the people closely, and it is much easier to control jobs of 3 departments than of 30000000 departments.

The point is exactly

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (3, Insightful)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488768)

Nice rant but totally unrealistic. Economies can't grow without limits as the raw materials are not boundless.

Manufacturing jobs will always be eliminated over time as automation replaces people. The US right now has the largest manufacturing output of any nation in history, and it's doing it with only 8% of its population. The US output is larger than China, India and Brazil combined.

White collar jobs are headed the same way as software replaces people.

So what is left? Simply make do public sector jobs funded by taxation on productive work. There isn't any other possible outcome.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488844)

The US output can only be measured in real terms by the trade balance numbers, GDP is meaningless, the way it's counted is meaningless and it became more meaningless with bailouts and stimulus spending and printing.

Manufacturing jobs are automated, but while they are eliminated in the USA (the latest job growth in private sector of about 60K jobs was all in service sector, which does not help the trade imbalance at all), in China, Malaysia, Singapore and the rest of Asia these jobs are growing.

The reasons of-course lay in unions but importantly wage laws, because once you compete with a wage law, you are not only competing with other people in your field, you are competing with capital. There is a reason people are no longer answering phones or checking your oil at a gas pump or bagging your groceries and carrying them to your car.

Raw materials are not the problem, at least not for the next few thousands of years, there is Canada and Russia and Africa and probably the Arctic, those have more materials than we can use for now.

The ultimate answer to your question is not government job for everybody. If ALL JOBS are automated WHY do you need to work? What, do you love your job so that you'd rather work than spend time on a beach?

Working is not the goal (for most people anyway,) so paying you a gov't salary to dig a ditch and fill it back in (as Krugman proposed on CNBC radio just a week ago) is retarded.

Using money from productive work to fund gov't jobs is retarded just as well. Your last statement is crazy. That would mean that we have tapped out all possibilities for further expansion of human ideas and that is unlikely. If that were to happen you'd see draconian laws implemented to reduce population to something extremely controlled, and that is not going to happen, so instead people would continue expanding and work would have to continue being productive for the most of population on the planet.

Gov't is less than 10% of all population, 90% of population is funding that monster. Growing that to much bigger number is not sustainable and very dangerous for economy in its totality, less you want to see some extreme wars to wipe out entire countries.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

ivucica (1001089) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488820)

Let's remember what sort of thing [wikipedia.org] happens when corporations [wikipedia.org] are allowed to "compete" freely [wikipedia.org] .

Best regards,
- a citizen of a country "in transition"

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488918)

My friend. You are comparing Enron to gov't today, realize that

1. Enron never was in a free market of any kind at all, you are talking about ENERGY sector! Billions, tens of billions of gov't subsidies and regulations and various laws and you must be crazy to believe this has anything to do with free market.

2. Same for Comcast. AT&T by the way, was given a priority by gov't to own a nationalized phone cable system, but forget AT&T. Gov't is OWNED by these industries: energy, military, banking, insurance, food, telecommunications, there is no free market there, never was, and by looks of it economy will be destroyed and there will be no free market there ever until the gov't dies off as a species (we arent' that lucky)

3. Any disaster that you can point at has a direct correlation to destruction of Freedoms that people must be able to enjoy under Constitution (well, in USA), the gov't is the first entity not to care about private property, gov't doesn't care how it treats property, all property needs to be privatized so that there is always a meaningful owner, who'll stand in the way of others destroying it.

4. Gov't is a pyramid scheme much much much bigger than Enron and Madoff and all other schemes COMBINED.

Fed is printing money, they are printing t-bills, they are setting interest rates, they are a gigantic monopoly on monetary policy.

So when Enron came up with fake income numbers based on future income, what do you think gov't is doing when it's printing t-bills? :))))) Gov't IS ENRON, it IS Berney Madoff.

They are telling you: we are going to have this earnings, look, buy our t-bills, we'll pay you back with interest, when in fact what it does it moves its debt from one credit card to another at this point near every 6 months.

Learn, learn, learn, that's the only way out of ignorance.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

ivucica (1001089) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489204)

Obviously I gave wrong examples; perhaps I can be forgiven since this is not a part of day-to-day politics in my country. But despite the horrors US government is obviously inflicting upon its citizens (primarily I mean using tax money to pay for unnecessary wars, but you list other fine examples), I look at the way people behave toward each other in day-to-day life. Homo homini lupus..

Complete deregulation would be horrible. Demonization of all regulation is wrong. People abuse. Companies abuse.

Limited subsidies are not evil -- some sort of governing is necessary in human life. Limited regulation is needed to prevent stuff like poisonous plastics used in Chinese toys. Your post is attacking all regulation, all taxes, all government, but anarchy isn't a solution. Western societies are not sufficiently evolved and may never be.

(On the other hand, I agree with your views on monetary politics today being based upon a massive fraud. Borrowing is never the way out, it's just a way to dig yourself deeper. Which is why I will for as long as I can avoid getting any kind of bank loan and encourage others to see that they benefit noone in the long term by getting loans.)

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33489080)

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

The companies listed in your links have all benefited greatly from government handouts and favorable regulations (to lock out competitors).

You can't rail against the "free market" then provide examples which have received special government attention. ... well you can, but you'll look like an idiot.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

ivucica (1001089) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489228)

I tried pointing out that people are assholes, and would be even bigger assholes if we completely abolished any sort of regulation (which seems to be OP's desire). But you're right, not only do I look like an idiot, I probably am (and I take no offense in that); it is embarrassing though that I tried providing an example out of a set of things I am not completely familiar with. Mea culpa.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33489042)

I disagree. Few people and companies would invest the money and time to make new things if they knew that the moment they did so, their competitors would buy one example of the product, copy it, and sell it without having any of the substantial costs involved in research and development. I'm not saying that companies that do invest in research in development *deserve* some special monopoly as if it was some kind of innate right -- it clearly isn't. I'm saying that it is to society's benefit if we grant a temporary (time-limited), limited (not all rights) monopoly as a reward for making something new rather than recycling the same old crap. It will stimulate research and development, creative new works, reward companies and people that are innovative, and so on -- i.e. exactly what the U.S. constitution and other countries claim as the benefit of having copyright, patent, and related "intellectual property" laws.

What's actually needed is some (excuse my language) fucking balance -- as in, no, when you make something it does not grant you some god-given, forever-active right to squeeze any and all money out of the information territory you've staked out, and it doesn't grant you the right to prevent ALL uses of that idea except the ones you allow, or to put locks and fences around it. We need to roll back the ever-extending length of copyright terms, strongly defend fair use rights, shorten patent terms, limit the use of DRM, and remind "intellectual property" owners that what they have is NOT "property". It's a public grant. It's an idea that you get a temporary, limited-rights monopoly for, and that's it. Once it's over it's time to pay for having that right by turning it over to the public that granted the monopoly in the first place, and stop grumbling about it as if we've "stolen" your land. And stop trying to buy politicians into making it last forever. You're paying off a debt to the public that was inherent in granting you the limited "rights" in the first place, so suck it up and deal with it: GO MAKE SOMETHING NEW if you want more money.

The one way I agree with you is for software patents: they're stupid, because it's patenting math. I have no problem with abolishing those, or making the patent term amazingly short (like 2 to 5 years).

We need responsible, representative government that interacts with the people. The government is us. If you seriously think that it would be possible to manage commercial corruption such as securities fraud without government then you haven't been paying attention to the fiasco of the last few years, which was rooted primarily in the premise that the financial industry, in their own interests, would never-ever start doing things that would undermine the whole system, thus it was okay to regulate them less and let the children manage the financial playground on their own. Guess what? They certainly will undercut the whole system if it lets them make millions of dollars this year and retire the next, before the economic catastrophe happens.

Want a concrete example that more government regulation could have prevented that financial fiasco? Look at the banks in Canada. Canada's economy is nothing special and is strongly tied to the USA's. Yet not a single bank failed, and the degree of government support of the banks was minimal. Why? Banking regulation, tougher rules for house mortgages and other lending, and so on. That's the sum total of what it took to avoid nearly collapsing the economy even when living right beside the economy (USA) that arguably took the worst of it. It's not magic: sensible government regulations. And if you think the Canadian government is somehow more efficient and less bureaucratic than the United States -- no way. It's probably sloppier and more wasteful. It's the regulations that mattered, and the encoded sense that, no, we can't trust corporations to mind their own store, so if you want to do business in Canada, deal with it or get out.

If you want a robust system you have to have some arms-length agency to balance against purely commercial interests, and the only means I've seen that makes any tangible difference is a government that is answerable to us, the people, rather than only the companies involved. Note that there is ample room for improvement in the implementation, of course, but that's no reason to start wholesale abolishment of systems that can and do work in principle and in practice if the public is attentive about keeping them on track. The truly perverse thing in the USA is the fact that election laws allow so much money to influence politicians and the political process so easily. It skews the way the system is supposed to work. Fix that, or at least do a better job of curbing it, and you'll solve half the problem.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (0, Troll)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489094)

didn't read, please log in and post under a nick, not as AC, it's stupid to try and carry conversations with ACs as there are too many of them.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489292)

That's just silly, the parent comment was not a troll, it makes sense. Arguing with ACs is silly because there are armies of them and you don't know who's who.

Re:Copyrights and patents must be abolished (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489200)

Copyrights and patents must be abolished, they are part of the death of economies, just like governments regulations, taxes, subsidies, wars, corporate involvement, corruption, stimulus borrowing/printing/spending and bailouts.

LOLFR, if I didn't know about your posting history, I would've assumed you were just trolling for libertarians. I can only assume your brain has been addled by the lead in your toys and the chemicals in your toothpaste that proper government regulation and inspection would have prevented.

re (1)

JohnVanVliet (945577) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488676)

i like this bit "adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures." well seeing as there are NO effective technologies to prevent the circumvention ... the old story about building a better mouse trap .

If it's in the treaty it will supersede U.S laws (5, Insightful)

Eternal Vigilance (573501) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488754)

the US ...is still holding out hope of establishing...rules that go beyond the WIPO Internet treaties and were even rejected by US courts.

That would be precisely why the forces of intellectual darkness and their minions within the U.S. government are pushing for this with such rabidity, and in such secrecy. Unless it's flat-out unconstitutional (a much, much narrower standard than simply "illegal"), anything in this treaty will supersede U.S. courts and U.S. law.

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little...ah, fuck it. We do the unconstitutional immediately, too."

Enough is enough (3, Insightful)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 4 years ago | (#33488898)

If the DMCA provision passes, I promise that from that point I won't spend a single cent on anything made by anybody who supports or takes advantage of it, and that I will make every effort discourage other people and companies from purchasing those things.

All my money will instead go on software, hardware and music without DRM and under liberal licenses, as well as organizations that oppose this kind of legislation. I will especially contribute to any attempts to eliminate patents and heavily restrict copyright.

Re:Enough is enough (1)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489300)

Me too!

Re:Enough is enough (1)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489310)

you should just do that anyway. People that are pushing this are doing it for free money, might as well let them know now that your are not going to buy their real product as long as they continue to champion stuff like this.

Wikileaks is not the victim. (2, Interesting)

drzin69 (1358429) | more than 4 years ago | (#33489108)

I guess Wikileaks does have to leak out government docs. One more thing...." The British music industry has called for a truce with the technology firms with whom it has till now fought a bitter battle over rights, royalties and file sharing.

Feargal Sharkey, CEO of lobby group UK Music, told a conference in London this week that it was time for the music and technology industries to set aside their differences and strive instead toward a common goal: nothing less than the total global domination of British music.

Sharkey, a campaigner against people copying music on the internet and the technology they use, said it had become apparent that technology and creativity were inseparable.

"It's now time for ISPs and tech companies to sit down together and possibly for the first time have a broad adult conversation. Our future is now totally dependent, totally entwined, totally symbiotic," he told an audience of industry, government and media at the Westminster Forum this morning....."

http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/9/4/uk-music-calls-truce-technology/
Sharkey was on rousing form. The former pop star called dramatically for the mobilization of British music and technology producers: "By 2020. We. Want. To rival. The United States. As the largest. Source of repertoire. And artistry. In. The. World."
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