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Sony Has Lost the PS3 Hacking War

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the not-that-they'll-admit-it dept.

PlayStation (Games) 322

YokimaSun writes "Sony may have dealt a major blow to the PSjailbreak sellers, but the release last week of PSGroove, an open source version of the hack, has now opened the floodgates of ports to mobile phones such as the Nokia N900 and Palm Pre. The final kick in the teeth is that a port of the exploit has been released by Waninkoko of Wii custom firmware fame for the Dingoo Handheld, which is a homebrew console that is very popular amongst emulation fans. It makes you smile that you can use one homebrew console to hack another to get homebrew on that console. Awesome." pudge notes that you can apparently do the same with a TI-84 Plus graphing calculator (YouTube video).

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Banned from PSN... (-1, Troll)

odies (1869886) | more than 4 years ago | (#33491912)

It makes you smile that you can use one homebrew console to hack another to get homebrew on that console. Awesome.

First of all, this is just used for pirating purposes. In fact that's the only thing the hack allows, so drop the homebrew bullshit.

Secondly, Sony has lost the PS3 hacking war? These hacks are fully detectable by PS3 and Sony. Those who have used them have already been banned from PSN and multiplayer games. What a great way to ruin your expensive console.

Re:Banned from PSN... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492026)

It makes you smile that you can use one homebrew console to hack another to get homebrew on that console. Awesome.

First of all, this is just used for pirating purposes. In fact that's the only thing the hack allows, so drop the homebrew bullshit.

Secondly, Sony has lost the PS3 hacking war? These hacks are fully detectable by PS3 and Sony. Those who have used them have already been banned from PSN and multiplayer games. What a great way to ruin your expensive console.

u just don't "get it"

It does make homebrew *possible*. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492054)

You're making a whole lot of assumptions. Following the news of this exploit, there's been no evidence of reaction from Sony beyond the lawyer attacks on distributors. It's true the commercial product is designed for backups (which may be used for piracy, but aren't necessarily), but it does allow adding other code - including homebrew. There simply isn't any around yet. I've been looking into the code injected to see if I can figure out a way to replace it with a Linux bootloader, and so far, this looks doable (but far from easy).

So, 1) this is not *just* used for pirating. 2) that is not all it allows. 3) you're the first I've seen spouting the rumour of people being banned from PSN for this. 4) Sony went right ahead and "ruined" the console months ago.
Sony have taken a surprisingly long time to react on the firmware side of things - they were quicker than this to kill Other OS when they weren't even threatened and knew the attack would have no positive effect.
I have been effectively banned for much less reason, however - insisting on keeping functionality I bought the machine for. SCE started the attack on me back in April, and I'm trying to regain what they've unrightfully removed.

If SCE had any interest in goodwill, they could release an update that reenables Other OS. Contrary to some spurious claims, the function required no extra work on their part - they only made changes to it to prevent Linux from getting "too good" at graphics, which is frankly laughable. It also didn't need removal to fit newer features, as it only existed on models with larger flash in the first place. If Other OS continued working as it should, I'd have no reason to spend so much effort on these exploits.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (-1, Troll)

Goaway (82658) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492252)

that is not all it allows

Oh? What else does it allow?

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (2, Informative)

partyguerrilla (1597357) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492286)

Homebrew applications and a "cheap" Cell SDK, for starters.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492626)

How do you boot a homebrew application on it?

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1, Interesting)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493056)

There is no "cheap" Cell SDK that is usable for the PSJailbreak. It allows booting apps... that were compiled using the leaked official SDK (much like the "Backup Manager" that they offer was). There are no libraries in existence currently that would enable people to compile for the PS3 using GCC and the like, and the PSJailbreak also does not allow reinstatement of Other OS because they blew their chance at incorporating that functionality into the dongle, and it can't be done using purely application software.

There probably will be legit homebrew for the PS3 at some stage, but the PSJailbreak is certainly more about piracy than anything else.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (5, Insightful)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492274)

If this was the iPhone people would call this Jailbreaking and be claiming it is just allowing them to choose what software is on the device.

I don't understand why it's fine on the iPhone yet on a games console it is deemed to be a bit more 'dodgy'. Especially when jailbreaking an iPhone also allows pirate software to be installed.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492546)

I must know the wrong crowd, because the only reason anyone has brought up jailbreaking an iPhone in conversation with me was to use pirated apps.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (2, Interesting)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492692)

I'm not sure what side of the pond you're on, but here in the U.S. about the only legitimate way to use an iPhone is not only to buy into Apple's hubris, but to buy into AT&T's also. Many people jailbreak iPhones so they can use T-Mobile or some other carrier, and from all reports I've heard they're better off for doing it.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (2, Insightful)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492548)

I don't understand why it's fine on the iPhone yet on a games console it is deemed to be a bit more 'dodgy'. Especially when jailbreaking an iPhone also allows pirate software to be installed.

Because there's tons of free and useful software for the iPhone. While there may be some for the PS3, it's definitely not a multi-purpose device.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (3, Insightful)

Sancho (17056) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492608)

Because there's tons of free and useful software for the iPhone. While there may be some for the PS3, it's definitely not a multi-purpose device.

I haven't seen a lot of useful stuff in the Cydia store. There are a handful of moderately useful things, hundreds of themes, and a lot of stuff which, by all appearences, is pretty useless and would probably be approved by Apple if the developer bothered to submit it.

There isn't much available for the PS3 right now because the jailbreak just freaking happened. Give it time. If someone can port a decent media center (like XBMC) to the PS3, that alone would be reason enough to mod it. Not to mention, as I posted elsewhere, the possibility of restoring OtherOS and PS2 emulation.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (2, Insightful)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492666)

While there may be some for the PS3, it's definitely not a multi-purpose device.

One could say the same thing about an unjailbroken iPhone. Especially before the third party scene forced Apple to implement some obviously missing features.

The PS3 is only not a multi-purpose device because Sony keeps trying to force it to be that way.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492748)

That's not what Sony claims.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492774)

Intended purpose. If both systems had no restrictions on software that was run, what would most people install that is not currently allowed. I'd argue that iphone would get more freeware/ custom software not allowed in the store. For the playstation, one can not honestly argue that most people would use the new openness for home brewed games and alternative operating systems. However, I do agree that in principle it is the same thing: allowing the owner of a piece of hardware run the software of his choosing. And I am in favor of that, regardless of the consequences of those who do not respect copyrights.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492882)

You sound like someone who never saw xbmc on the original xbox. I've been waiting a long time for something similar on this gen of consoles and it looks like it'll be here pretty soon

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492848)

Because people who jailbreak iPhones are clearly doing it to pirate software, whereas that would never happen on the PS3.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493060)

The PSJailbreak has nothing to do with jailbreaking. Just because they took the term and used it doesn't mean this is morally, technically, or practically equivalent or even remotely similar to iPhone jailbreaks.

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (1)

besalope (1186101) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492764)

I'm not going to deny the fact this is primarily for pirating; however the how banning on PSN is based off Sony detecting the app running on the console from the 'hack' program. If I read sources correctly the FOSS version allows you to change the AppID or naming on the console to the actual game's, which looks legit to Sony/PSN and circumvents their "protections."

Re:It does make homebrew *possible*. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492804)

More Soulskill fanboy nonsense.

Sony hasn't lost anything. The only people about to lose anything, are those that heve ever plugged on of these in and run the backup manager. As the PS3 will report it next time you sign into PSN (regardless of if it's still plugged in or not).. PS3 tracks what games/apps you run, and sends that to Sony to update your trophycard.

I can see quite a few idiots with permenent console bans. Besides the fact a mandatory firmware patch will be out soon enough and will be required to sign in to PSN, or to play GT5 or any of the other awesome PS3 titles this season...

Re:Banned from PSN... (4, Informative)

morari (1080535) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492114)

Sorry. Sony already ruined their own expensive console by removing marketed features after the fact.

Re:Banned from PSN... (2, Informative)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492442)

Sorry. Sony already ruined their own expensive console by removing marketed features after the fact.

Searching Google News returns about 7,700 hits for "PS3."

The "OtherOS" was never more than a very small part of the PS3 story - and it is the Move controller that is making headlines now.

Re:Banned from PSN... (2, Insightful)

Andorin (1624303) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492542)

> The "OtherOS" was never more than a very small part of the PS3 story - and it is the Move controller that is making headlines now.

Which has what to do with his point?

Re:Banned from PSN... (1, Insightful)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492578)

Which has what to do with his point?

Something that so few care about hardly "ruins" a console.

Re:Banned from PSN... (1)

GiveBenADollar (1722738) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493040)

Which has what to do with his point?

Something that so few care about hardly "ruins" a console.

So few care about? Your on slashdot, so most people here care about it. Remember your audience, if my watch doesn't run linux it's not cool enough for slashdot.

Let's be honest (2, Insightful)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492656)

Let's at least be a little bit honest. Maybe the ability to install Linux on a PS3 was a big deal around here, but for the vast majority of people buying one it's not even on their radar. There's a least a sizable number of these people who have either never heard of Linux or have no real understanding of what it actually is.

I don't expect that Sony will lose many sales over this. Considering that they may still be selling it at a loss and hoping to make up for it in game sales may actually net them more money as there were at least a few [google.com] people who were using them to make clusters.

Re:Banned from PSN... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492150)

Fuck off you condescending wanker! Just because you are a pirate, doesn't mean everyone else is. Do you think the homebrew applications magically appear on hacked platforms? They take dedication and a lot of effort you cunt. So save your sanctimonious attitude and get back to you gay apple-luurve and corporate trolling.

FYI, no one has been banned from the PSN, they were fakes dated from 2008. Twat.

Re:Banned from PSN... (1)

Andorin (1624303) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492168)

> First of all, this is just used for pirating purposes. In fact that's the only thing the hack allows, so drop the homebrew bullshit.

My [CD/DVD ripper, portable music player, old console emulation software, BitTorrent client, external hard drive] is just used for pirating purposes. In fact that's the only thing the device allows.

Clearly we should ban all those things because they enable piracy.

Re:Banned from PSN... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492220)

Piracy and multilayer do not mix. Anyone careless enough to use hacked consoles on the PSN deserves the ban. And it's only been a few months after a bunch of modded console owners got shafted. You'd think people will learn by now.

Re:Banned from PSN... (3, Insightful)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492280)

Those who have used them have already been banned from PSN and multiplayer games. What a great way to ruin your expensive console.

Not everybody's idea of an enjoyable gaming experience involves trading insults with hormonal 15 year-olds, nor does $300 meet everyone's definition of "expensive." Jailbreaking is appropriate for anyone who either doesn't care about online features, can afford two consoles, or both. I suspect that's a not-insignificant portion of current and potential owners.

Can Sony really detect it? (1)

cesman (74566) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492302)

I think, at this point it is supposition that Sony can detect the use of a backup. If they can, how does that make you feel if you legitimately own a game and back it up? More importantly, what else do they know about you and what are they doing with that information? I'm not talking about piracy, I'm talking about your rights as a consumer and your rights online.

Re:Can Sony really detect it? (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492478)

I'm talking about your rights as a consumer and your rights online.

In the free market USA, the rights have the consumers!

P.S. Cue the DMCA: especially the on-line consumers.

Re:Can Sony really detect it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492906)

The application ID is fixed with PSJB. The backup manager/launcher needs to store the app id for the game in question and change itself to that, if possible. There have been no bans based on this JB, they were fakes dug up from 2008.

Re:Banned from PSN... (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492338)

In fact that's the only thing the hack allows, so drop the homebrew bullshit.

So, what, somehow this hack allows one to run pirated content, but it *doesn't* allow one to run homebrew? I suppose you have evidence for this idiotic claim?

Re:Banned from PSN... (5, Insightful)

diamondsw (685967) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492438)

First of all, this is just used for pirating purposes. In fact that's the only thing the hack allows, so drop the homebrew bullshit.

Pardon? I have no interest in either pirating OR homebrew. I just want to load the games that I bought onto the console to improve load times, avoid disc damage from handling, and keep all my games available at all times. What's the point of a 250GB drive it all I have on it are dinky PSN games?

Re:Banned from PSN... (2, Informative)

Sam H (3979) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492440)

You don't know what you are talking about. I successfully wrote and compiled PS3 software, then ran it on my retail console thanks to PSGroove.

Re:Banned from PSN... (3, Insightful)

Nihn (1863500) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492452)

"These hacks are fully detectable by PS3 and Sony." Only if the system is online....which most people already know and thanks to the ability to download the ps3 updates to a usb means you never have to connect your console to the Sony servers. "this is just used for pirating purposes" Welcome to the game of consumer desire and business ethics. You can buy something now and it is not legally your property. You are not allowed any freedoms with something you paid your money for. If this jailbreak allowed people to get a whole console for free then I would have some sympathy.....but as the Xbox community has already shown that the console...is only a computer. And a computer has the potential to do alot....even if it isn't in the original design. Hell, if it wasn't for hackers you wouldn't have the computer you sit in front of. Sony will not listen, the industry will not listen.....hackers ALWAYS listen...and they deliver hand over fist. Be mad all you want, the future of games are in the hands of the intelligent...and they numbers favor the hacking team. "Sony has lost the PS3 hacking war?" Yes...the fact Psgroove exist and works is absolute proof that the ps3 is hackable, and that Sony has gone to great lengths to prevent something that a bunch of "criminals" ,who are no better than pedophiles in some peoples eyes ,were able to accomplish. Now comes the flood of "homebrew" apps that will add value to a system and unlocks the potential for something greater. "What a great way to ruin your expensive console" you mean what a great way to keep revenue out of the pockets of billionaires who don't care for the consumer, only the stock margin and their own personal well being......

Re:Banned from PSN... (2, Interesting)

Nikker (749551) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492568)

If I can pick up a PS3 for $299CDN and use is as a HTPC, screw games. If after it's hacked I can play one out of 1000 games then I'm cool with that. The slim ones look cool enough have ethernet, HDMI and other jacks and most HTPC's will set you back $400+ from scratch (especially if you want a decent looking case). So if they get access to the GPU then I'll get one and the PSN will never get a ping from me.

Re:Banned from PSN... (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492682)

The hack, not so much, but if your'e playing "Backup manager" Sony knows what's up :)

Re:Banned from PSN... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492782)

Don't be a troll. Homebrew is a real fair use case and is what move the reversing scene. None of this would happen with OtherOS still there.

The only thing Waninkoko is famous for... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33491950)

The only thing Waninkoko is famous for is not thinking before releasing things. He put out a USB .iso loader, for example, that made the pirating possible on a large scale and caused Nintendo to step up patching the Team Twiizers hacks. Don't paint him as a god! He didn't even make any "Custom Firmware", only a few patches to the wii's system menu.

Re:The only thing Waninkoko is famous for... (4, Interesting)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492316)

Even worse, he's directly responsible for bricking hundreds of consoles due to shoddy code (his "custom updater" and "custom downgrader" saga; at one point running one of his tools bricked your console 100% of the time) and generally speaking hasn't made any contributions to homebrew, instead opting to cobble together pieces of homebrew code to make pirac^H^H^H^H^Hbackup tools, often without following the licences.

He's only jumping on the PS3 bandwagon to get some attention, which is something he loves. If he ever releases anything halfway meaningful for the PS3, I can pretty much guarantee it'll be a port or simple combination of existing tools in a slightly more "marketable" way, with a "healthy" dose of his sponsor's logos, as his Wii releases always have been.

True story: he released his USB loader about 20-30 days after someone actually wrote a high-speed USB driver, which was the final piece of the puzzle. For kicks, after his announcement but before the release, I proceeded to independently create an equivalent USB loader, to gauge how much work had to go into it. ~200 lines of code and 6 hours, not counting time spent writing a silly menu and slapping in logos.

Lost the war? (4, Interesting)

socsoc (1116769) | more than 4 years ago | (#33491998)

Maybe this battle was a loss, but as long as Song can force firmware updates, the war is far from over.

There's aslo an iOS version being made that'll run from a jailbroken iPhone.

Re:Lost the war? (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492934)

Nice typos too. :)

Re:Lost the war? (1)

socsoc (1116769) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493006)

You can blame the auto correction on an iPhone and my failure to correctly preview...

Re:Lost the war? (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492978)

Yeah, and I'm guessing that they're going to have another massive lawsuit on their hands if they follow through with their threats to disable portions of the PS3 as a response. It was questionable to say the least when they started releasing PS3s without all the chips that the first gen PS3s had, but now that they're apparently removing features from consoles that people have already purchased, they're going to be in a world of hurt.

Palm Pre (0)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492034)

Saw a video of a palm pre hacking the PS3 yesterday.

Re:Palm Pre (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492146)

Without a link, this deserves no more than a "Cool story bro".

Re:Palm Pre (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492296)

Yeah, you expect me to believe that somebody actually OWNS a Palm Pre?

Ridiculous submission (4, Insightful)

Goaway (82658) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492046)

The hack exploits a bug in the USB code on the PS3. A firmware update will render every single one those hack versions useless.

That's nowhere near a victory of any kind.

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492124)

Yes, that's what I was thinking as well! Who the hell are these idiots who seem not to know anything about which they submit stories?
I admit I haven't RTFA, but I watched the video and it clearly is something workable by the means of a Firmware update. This war is as lost as the PSP war was before they found out about Pandora...

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

Andorin (1624303) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492210)

> A firmware update will render every single one those hack versions useless.

Then why hasn't Sony released one yet? If it's so trivial to patch the flaw you'd think they would have done so by now.

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492360)

It's trivial - it's a hole in GameOS (lv-2), which is part of updates and nowhere near the early bootloaders. They're probably working through their very first case of "oh-shit-we-need-to-patch-this-now" bureaucracy. They'll get faster for upcoming iterations of the exploit-patch-release cycle.

Re:Ridiculous submission (4, Funny)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492846)

Then why hasn't Sony released one yet? If it's so trivial to patch the flaw you'd think they would have done so by now.

Because they have careful testing and actually care about not breaking shit?

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

cf18 (943501) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492264)

Yeah. The bug is in the USB stack so it is easy to fix. Future game releases will requires the firmware update. What I wonder is if Sony will go further and brick your PS3 if the new game detects a plugged in exploit device?

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492594)

I keep reading paranoid shit like this, like, "is Sony going to brick your PS3/PSP over x, y, or z?"

the answer is fucking no.

the answer is always fucking no.

if you do something to your PSP or PS3 that compromises the FLASH and the update happens to brick it, it's not their goddamned fault.

(I have a PSP with a dead flash that's randomly bluescreening but that ain't due to Sony magically destroying my FLASH1 from the ether)

Re:Ridiculous submission (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492674)

I keep reading paranoid shit like this, like, "is Sony going to brick your PS3/PSP over x, y, or z?"

the answer is fucking no.

Well, after they stole my OtherOS option, my PS3 hasn't been turned on. it is, essentially, a "brick" for me now, fuckwit.

Re:Ridiculous submission (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492276)

You underestimate the consequences of this. To do anything exotic you would need to change the shellcode to launch your own unsigned bootloader instead of tricking the Sony system software into thinking we have a Jig; but if you do, you have complete control.

With more development, you could fake it perfectly - the PS3's own security capabilities (that were used to such effect in the OtherOS hypervisor that needed a hardware glitch to even come close to breaking) can also be used against it, to stealth DNAS and firmware updates and make any changes we like to the running code, undetectably.

An SPU in security mode is latched off the bus so that the CPU and other SPUs can't tamper with it. DNAS has to blindly trust it is running signed code - and that trust root is now gone, because if it isn't, and it lies, it lies convincingly. This is a design flaw in the trust root of Sony's DNAS ("Dynamic Network Authentication System") DRM - which actually encompasses the entire corpus of copy protection technologies on the PS3, including the clock (really), code signing, anti-cheat, disc authentication, rental timeouts (hence the clock), online store, update signing, (some) peripheral authentication, region lockouts (where enabled), console/disc unique IDs, Blu-Ray ROM-Mark, AACS and BD+ - and it's (of course) a fundamentally unfixable one. Once you've cracked the eggshell (so to speak), it's easier to root the PS3 on an ongoing basis than it is (say) the Xenon.

Plus, you now have complete firmware dumps for all components available without decapping, so you could maybe extend that hack to any future versions by simply finding new bugs in those dumps. This is the beginning, not the end, but it's the breakthrough that was being waited for, the one hole that opens the floodgates.

And let's face it, by being assholes and removing advertised features like OtherOS (and, I suppose, PS2 compatibility when the software is fully capable of it), Sony had it coming.

Re:Ridiculous submission (4, Informative)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492606)

The exploit has nothing to do with Sony's service jig. It uses the service jig code as a handy way to stash 64 bytes into memory, but it neither passes jig auth nor does anything related to what the jig does at Sony's repair centers. In fact, I think the exploit could be reworked not to emulate a device with the jig's ID at all. The core exploit relies on random (non-specific unidentified vendor) USB devices with wacky descriptors.

The exploit also only has permissions at lv-2 level (GameOS). Breaking into lv-1 will require extra work, and breaking into the secure SPU is still impractical.

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492686)

but if you do, you have complete control.

I am not at all convinced that is true. Pretty sure you don't have control over the hypervisor. And you certainly don't have any way to stop Sony from doing mandatory upgrades. Sure, you can take your own machine off the net, but new machines aren't going to be vulnerable.

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

mSparks43 (757109) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492916)

->And you certainly don't have any way to stop Sony from doing mandatory upgrades
Actually, I thought the upgrade proxy hack (fooling the ps3 into thinking it was running the latest firmware) had been knocking around since before geohotz, lots of people were talking about using it to keep Linux/OtherOS working and still letting them play online, but the web seems short of legit info these days (to many take down notices I guess :(.)

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492956)

An existing machine on the net might work, though, if you can get control over the hypervisor.

Run your own hypervisor, and then underneath that, Sony's runs. Sony can update whatever they want below your hypervisor - your hypervisor is still there, feeding incorrect data to Sony's hypervisor.

Re:Ridiculous submission (1)

trytoguess (875793) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493110)

Eh, firmware updates also reversed piracy on the PSP, but that console aint exactly piracy free.

That seems a bit hyperbolic, no? (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492058)

Unshockingly enough, Sony crushed a commercial seller of a PS3 mod device like a bug. Even if the law weren't probably unfavorable to the sellers, Sony probably could have just tied them up in injunctions forever anyway. Shocking.

Equally unsurprisingly, halting the distribution of some OSS software is going about as well as the fight against DVD Jon's little toy did. It's totally unwinnable, and Sony hasn't shown many clear signs of even trying. Shocking.

However, it isn't clear how much this matters. This isn't CSS, where the system was set in stone, millions of un-patchable, non-internet-connected hardware units were already in the wild, and team DRM pretty much just had to suck it up. Those were the good old days.

Sony controls the Playstation Network, and can enforce minimum software versions for access, or punitively lock out units. Even for offline users, individual game disks can mandate, and include, upgrades to a higher version. Sony has, certainly, lost the game against anyone content to just pick up an old PS3 fat on ebay and enjoy a pirated copy of every PS3 game to date, all for ~$200. You'll have to stay offline, and avoid games with mandatory upgrades; but not a bad deal on the whole, I can certainly see a fair few takers.

However, unless this USB hack is seriously powerful, exploiting some basically unblockable fundamental flaw in the PS3's design, all PS3s that ship more than a few weeks from now, are updated(manually or automatically) to the next firmware revision, or wish to play newer games or use newer peripherals, or play online, are back in Sony's camp. And, unlike a DVD or Blu-ray disk, where the plaintext copy, once created, is eminently playable on all sorts of 3rd party devices, general purpose computers, and whatnot, PS3 games are pretty much only playable on PS3s, pending substantial advances in computing power that will allow emulation. This isn't "hack once, run anywhere." Each individual PS3 is controlled separately, and the success of the hacking device depends on how many hackable PS3s remain in the wild, a variable over which Sony has substantial control...

Re:That seems a bit hyperbolic, no? (1)

Inda (580031) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492348)

New games with mandatory updates will be patched. It used to happen on the PS1. Patching ISOs became the norm in the end and we gained PPF-o-matic as a result.

Re:That seems a bit hyperbolic, no? (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492392)

However, it isn't clear how much this matters. This isn't CSS, where the system was set in stone, millions of un-patchable, non-internet-connected hardware units were already in the wild, and team DRM pretty much just had to suck it up. Those were the good old days.

Sony controls the Playstation Network, and can enforce minimum software versions for access, or punitively lock out units. Even for offline users, individual game disks can mandate, and include, upgrades to a higher version. Sony has, certainly, lost the game against anyone content to just pick up an old PS3 fat on ebay and enjoy a pirated copy of every PS3 game to date, all for ~$200. You'll have to stay offline, and avoid games with mandatory upgrades; but not a bad deal on the whole, I can certainly see a fair few takers.
 

Agreed. Unless we can get a free and open parallel Playstation Network for hacked consoles to make use of, it'll continue to be a arms race and Sony will ultimately have the upper hand due to owning and controlling the network. And it's a much taller order, both legally and technically, to provide such a network. And likely prohibitively expensive even if there weren't legal obstacles.

Re:That seems a bit hyperbolic, no? (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492734)

The 'USB Hack' apparently uses a flaw in the USB driver, so it should be easy for Sony to patch.

But in the mean time, even though Sony 'crushed' the company, there's now an open source version that runs on most Android phones, Nokia n900, and even a TomTom, among others.

Naturally, the usual OMGWTFPIRACY folks arrive... (1, Flamebait)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492076)

So it enables piracy. But if it adds more functionality because of it, that much the better.

Re:Naturally, the usual OMGWTFPIRACY folks arrive. (2, Insightful)

Sancho (17056) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492558)

Exactly. I've been following this mod for exactly one reason: enabling PS2 games on PS3 versions which don't support that. Although having OtherOS to play with would be kind of neat (I have a slim, so I never had either feature.)

I don't pirate. I occasionally boycott a publisher, and then I simply do without their games (I'm looking at you, Ubisoft.) But I'd love to be able to disconnect my PS2 from my TV.

There have been some murmurs that this will be possible soon. The only question will be whether the cat-and-mouse game Sony will be playing with pirates will be too annoying.

Sony, bring back OtherOS and PS2 emulation, and I'll have no interest in this mod!

Re:Naturally, the usual OMGWTFPIRACY folks arrive. (2, Informative)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492794)

IF your machine doesnt have PS2 compatibility already, no amount of software is going to bring it back. PS2 emulation on PS3 has ALWAYS depended on at least part of the PS2 hardware being physically present.

Re:Naturally, the usual OMGWTFPIRACY folks arrive. (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492844)

Well that's damned disappointing.

Re:Naturally, the usual OMGWTFPIRACY folks arrive. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33493044)

The PS3 is not fast enough to emulate a PS2 without hardware assistance. Sorry.

Re:Naturally, the usual OMGWTFPIRACY folks arrive. (1, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493002)

You mean it adds back functionality that they used to include with the PS3. Don't forget that they have removed functionality from recent firmware editions as a response to the threat to their exclusivity. And the latest report is that the next firmware update is going to disable the USB ports. Sony has learned very little from getting clobbered over that rootkit they installed on computers as DRM.

Speaking as somone... (1)

Banichi (1255242) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492082)

...who hasn't updated since April 1st and doesn't use the PSN service, what does Sony banning users mean to me? Absolutely nothing. I owe these people nothing. I owe Sony nothing. If Sony has a problem with me using this knowledge to my own personal benefit, tough luck jack. I lost any inclination I had to buy from them EVER again on April 1st. I had been a fairly loyal customer up to that point (Sony TV, DVD player, etc...).

Re:Speaking as somone... (2, Insightful)

magamiako1 (1026318) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492096)

And unfortunately for humanity, 500,000,000 other users won't care.

Just reward (1, Insightful)

syrce (944994) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492094)

Serves Sony right for bullying us into giving up Linux on our PS3! I'm sure this would have eventually have happened but it makes me smile that it happened so soon after they specifically took away the Other OS option to avoid their console getting hacked. Talk about bad karma.

Re:Just reward (1)

meerling (1487879) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492242)

They didn't bully anyone int giving up Linux, they just flat out took it away. YOINK!
If you were bullied into giving it up, that presumes you'd had a choice, even if it means you would get beaten up if you didn't comply.

Re:Just reward (1)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492616)

We did have a choice (do not update), and we did get beat up if we chose it (no PSN, no newer games).

Shame it had to come to this... (2, Interesting)

cesman (74566) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492186)

It has been years since I owned a console (Turbografx 16), after reading about the power of the Cell, I wanted to get a PS3. Not just for games but for Linux! However it turned out one couldn't full harness the power of the PS3 with Linux. So, I didn't get one. Thru the years, I'd check and see if any breakthrus were made or if Sony changed their stance. Well, with the release of the Slim models, the stance changed all right.

Since I own a N900 (Great hardware, great OS, great community! Nokia however is frustrating.) and seeing the release of PSFreedom was interesting to say the least. However at the moment all one can do is backup one's games. While it will be interesting to watch what happens in the homebrew scene, where does that leave those like myself that would want to do something legitimate with the PS3?

In my case, for years I've wanted to port KnoppMyth (now LinHES) to the PS3. Now, it seems that things maybe falling in place that would allow that. However thanks to corporate decisions and the law (DMCA), I probably won't be able to do so. Talk about crippling innovation.

Re:Shame it had to come to this... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492596)

Sony makes consoles for gamers, not geeks who want cheap processing power. They need you to buy games for that piece of hardware to make some profit, that's why they try to crush any other use for it.

The rest of the PS3 owners bought it to play games, so when some obscure option that less than one percent users even tried, it's no surprise no one cares.

One user said that the hack can be used for something else other than pirating? Well what is it?
Another said that you can buy an old version and play pirated games with it, all under 200 USD. The best games are online multiplayer. If you want to pirate games, then the Xbox is cheaper and easier to use.

Re:Shame it had to come to this... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492938)

Hmm, I think you're deluding yourself, or lying for attention. The PS3 cells were available under OtherOS and Linux. Plenty of heavy duty number crunching projecs have been successfully powering through data for years. The limitation was access to the RSX, i.e. video hardware in real terms. Are you a 3D graphics coding guru? No, thought not. Furthermore, the PS3 has been out for almost 4 years. Be honest, you were never going to buy a PS3 were you.

props to sony (1)

bakamorgan (1854434) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492230)

It was just a matter of time till it got hacked. Props to sony for making it this long. I don't mod my systems untill I have the next gen one in my hands and working since then it extends the life or use of the old console. By that time then the hackinng is more perfected and I have a much better chance of bricking my machine...but meh each to their own.

when will they learn.. (1)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492350)

When will the figure out that once you SELL something to somebody, you no longer own it. I'm sick of companies telling me what I can and cannot do with my hardware after I buy it. I should be able to access the PSN with a modded playstation the same way I'm able to get service on a rooted phone. The first people to make an open game console (with comparable/superior hardware of course) are going to be rich.

Sony won the war (2, Insightful)

robmv (855035) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492432)

Sony won because they managed to delay for nearly 4 years the break in the PS3 security, They are not losing money on the console right now, If this would happened early Sony could have lost a lot of money, losing possible game sales on people that probably never had the intention of buying a PS3 because it was not pirate ready is not significant in my opinion, pirates never intended to pay

Re:Sony won the war (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492690)

Yup, even with the Xbox 360's RROD issues, I'm pretty confident that this had a BIG thing to do with the PS3's popularity among third party devs. Develop for the 360 when it had twice the user base, but get pirated 3/4rd of the time, or develop for the much smaller PS3 user base, but have 5 times the attach rate.

No brainer, so even when the PS3 looked like it would end up on life support, it was able to "recover" from that alone...

Re:Sony won the war (2, Interesting)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492814)

I don't know, I have a stack of Wii games, and I don't own a single PS3 game. In fact, as I look through my library of literally over a thousand original console games, a good 90% of the games were purchased for systems that had been hacked. Maybe I am really that unique of a human being... Somehow I doubt it though.

Re:Sony won the war (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493038)

Part of that is that the most recent revisions are shy a few chips which the older ones had. And they didn't bother to advertise that the newer versions are essentially gimped so that they don't lose as much money on them. The Slim for instance had no other OS feature and had the chips for emulating both the PS and PS2 not included so that Sony could save a few dollars on production. And from what I gather, they'd removed the PS emulation from previous revisions as well.

Android ports now available (2, Informative)

capebretonsux (758684) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492474)

Without taking a stance on the whole piracy issue, this does work with a HTC Dream on a 120gb ps3 slim. Only problem is that it breaks wifi and sd storage (on the phone) until you reflash.

Re:Android ports now available (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493054)

Sweet, I'll have to try that. I wish I could mod you for that, but I've already posted here.

So? (1)

tius (455341) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492482)

Who cares, I've gone OpenCL and a GPU, the Cell/CBE is dead.

LOL! Idiots Out In Force (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492628)

Hilarious!

The PS3 is annihilating the wimpy Xbox 360 in every single possibly graphical/computational category:

* Animation

* Lighting

* Physics

* Materials

* Particles

* Deformation

* Resolution

Hell, the only thing 3500 dollar high PCs can even top the PS3 graphically are in gigantic high rez textures and AA.

Troll harder dimwit.

Re:LOL! Idiots Out In Force (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493084)

I think you entirely miss the point.

If the GP is using OpenCL, they're not using it for gaming, they're using it for scientific computing (or some similar FP-heavy, parallelizable workload.)

Cell is now fairly old technology, so a GPU catching up with and surpassing Cell doesn't surprise me one bit.

Great. (2, Interesting)

TheCount22 (952106) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492502)

Great can I have Linux on my PS3 now?

Now that Sony has lost maybe they can give me back the features I PAID FOR.

Thanks.

Linux on ps3? Give me a break (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492516)

I'm a full time linux user and I also own a ps3 for two years now. However, I never tried to install linux on it because it does it's job well for what I can't do on my linux system - play games. I wouldn't be surprised if most slashdotters that posted so far don't even use linux on their desktop let alone own a ps3. So what's up with the hate?

Re:Linux on ps3? Give me a break (3, Insightful)

TheCount22 (952106) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492670)

I'm a full time linux user and I also own a ps3 for two years now. However, I never tried to install linux on it because it does it's job well for what I can't do on my linux system - play games. I wouldn't be surprised if most slashdotters that posted so far don't even use linux on their desktop let alone own a ps3. So what's up with the hate?

From your point of view they took away a feature you never used. Now imagine Dell forced a new BIOS that would disable Linux from booting on your PC. Because "nobody uses linux". What would you say then?

I bought the PS3 for 3 things, linux, movies and games.

I used my PS3 as a thin client mostly. But also as a media center. But now thats no longer possible.

Where's the update? (1)

maitai (46370) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492592)

I just want them to release the firmware that enables 3D Blu-Ray damnit (they said the firmware was going to be released in Sep and now they say Oct). Anything else is moot. If they don't get off their ass and release it I'm going to have to go buy a Sony 3D Blu-Ray player...

Re:Where's the update? (2, Insightful)

Andorin (1624303) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492806)

> If they don't get off their ass and release it I'm going to have to go buy a Sony 3D Blu-Ray player...

Ah, that isn't exactly incentive for them to update PS3s to support Blu-Ray. It is, in fact, the exact opposite.

Yo dawg! (4, Funny)

xaosflux (917784) | more than 4 years ago | (#33492710)

"It makes you smile that you can use one homebrew console to hack another to get homebrew on that console."

Yo dawg! I heard you like hacking homebrew, so we we put hack in your homebrew so you can hack homebrew while you hack!

YOU fAIL IT.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33492750)

MAKES mE7 SICK JUST

good news for PC gamers (3, Insightful)

0111 1110 (518466) | more than 4 years ago | (#33493026)

Now that there is no unhacked console left, maybe the consolization of PC games will slow down a bit. And maybe Sony will finally release the PS4, so that PC graphics can finally move ahead. It has been 3 years since Crysis. PC games have been stalled in terms of graphics because the better the graphics are on the PC version the more difficult it is to port to the old tech on the consoles.

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