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Can NetBooks & Tablets Co-Exist?

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the gobble-gobble-gobble dept.

Portables 291

bsk_cw writes "According to Computerworld's Serdar Yegulalp, there has been a lot of talk about whether the iPad will take the place of the netbook — or, in fact, whether it will eat into the market share for more mainstream desktop and laptop computers. But, he continues, the iPad has a long way to go before it becomes a netbook killer — if only because it has created a space all its own."

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Well... (5, Insightful)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508214)

Can Cars and Motorcycles co-exist? How about motorbikes and bicycles?

How about Laptop and Desktop computers?

This is just silly.

Re:Well... (2, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508242)

This is just silly.

Yes, but I needed an article like this to cheer me up in the morning. Makes me glad I'm not a /. editor who has to try and filter this kind of stuff.

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508396)

> This is just silly.
 
Exactly. Of course they can't.

Re:Well... (2, Interesting)

JeffSpudrinski (1310127) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508462)

Agreed. They serve different purposes with overlap in abilities.

I like tablets, but I use a netbook on service calls. I can get a lot more freeware apps for troubleshooting networks for my netbook than I can for the tablet (think iPad). I'm also have a lot more freedom to tweak the netbook than I do the iPad and can run pretty much anything I want on the netbook.

The iPad is really nice to sit down with and just have it be a nice interface without worrying about much.

Think bottle of beer versus glass of wine. There are times you want one over the other, but both will get you plastered in the end.

Just my $0.02.

-JJS

Re:Well... (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508854)

It's not a problem of the machine, it's a problem of DRM. n900 is much smaller than iPad, yet it works almost perfectly for sysadmin tasks. It's "almost" because of a 3-row keyboard that makes you press Fn for digits.

Re:Well... (4, Funny)

afabbro (33948) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508530)

NO. THEY CANNOT EXIST TOGETHER!

We need to take this to Thunderdome! Two computing devices enter, one computing device leaves!

I don't know (0, Offtopic)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508532)

If the netbook is black and the laptop is white....

Or if you have a Dell laptop(Jewish) with an HP netbook made in Malaysia (Muslim) ....

Or A Dell (TX - red state) and an HP (CA- blue state)...

No, there will be problems!

Re:Well... (2, Interesting)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508690)

Besides: Hardly anyone but Mac fans buy iPads [electronista.com] . That's how much impact they're going to have on the netbook market. None whatsoever.

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508874)

You might want to re-read that article. It says nothing about *Mac* owners. It talks about owners of other Apple devices, which the article explicitly notes includes things like the iPhone, and even bog-standard iPods. As the article says, that's about 50% of the market. Hardly something to scoff at.

Yes. (3, Informative)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508216)

They occupy different niches (even though there's some overlap) and can coexist. Next question!

Re:Yes. (3, Interesting)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508294)

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

However, the Tablet du jour is no such thing. It is artificially limited by it's creator.
Therefore until more capable Tablets gain some visibility in the market, netbooks aren't
going anywhere.

People will still need to do things that Apple won't allow.

Re:Yes. (3, Interesting)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508412)

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit.

I know this isn't a popular opinion here on Slashdot, but guess what? *Most people don't give a shit about "open" or "closed" hardware*. Hell, they probably don't even realize the iPlatform is a closed ecosystem, as that's only evident if you try to develop for the thing.

No, this idiotic meme that "if only they'd open the hardware, they'd destroy everyone!", no matter what "they" is (PS3, NDS, iPlatform, etc), needs to stop. It's so hilariously naive it just makes you look stupid.

Re:Yes. (4, Insightful)

kg8484 (1755554) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508592)

I'm going to agree and disagree with your statement. Openness by itself won't do anything. However, openness leads to two things that will help tablets.

First, it opens up the market to competition. While this may not help a company like Apple, Google's Android platform allows new companies to enter the market without having to write the entire software stack. This in turn should drive prices down.

Secondly, an "open" platform allows more things to be done with it. Say some company is willing to sell me a netbook with a detachable keyboard (or a tablet with a clip-on keyboard that swivels), I would be more inclined to purchase that over a traditional netbook. Maybe not everyone, especially if it commands a hefty premium.

The one advantage that netbooks currently have is that they can run Windows and hence all the software that is developed for Windows. Until someone makes a good office suite for Android, I don't see people flocking to tablets over netbooks any time soon.

Re:Yes. (4, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508822)

The open-ness of a PC or a netbook is what makes it so useful.

It can do anything that a normal desktop PC can do INCLUDING RUNNING THAT STUPID TETHERING APP for the iPad.

How funny is that? That $300 dirtcheap ultraportable netbook from Walmart can be the thing that I use to "manage" my iPad/iPod/iPhone/iWhatever.

This isn't about running Free Software. This is about doing anything you damn well please with your own property and having thousands of hardware and software vendors waiting to cater to you.

Re:Yes. (1)

Tacvek (948259) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508850)

My doctor happens to own an old (pre-iPad) HP tablet, that has a detachable keyboard that can alternatively swivel and lock into place under the main device for when using it as a tablet. That sort of thing was common in pure tablets. Then you also had the pseudo-tablets, which were laptops (all the main electronics under the keyboard) but with screens that could pivot around and fold against the keyboard.

Those older tablets always used digitizer technology (like a wacom pad) for the screen,requiring the use of a stylus. the iPad's biggest innovation here was to use a touchscreen and special written applications. Further they decided not to feature things like handwriting recognition that was considered a major selling point in existing tablets, despite never working very well.

Re:Yes. (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508704)

Hell, they probably don't even realize the iPlatform is a closed ecosystem, as that's only evident if you try to develop for the thing.

I'd say it is unfair to 'call bullshit' in a scenario which only works when you ignore what you're calling bullshit against.

Parent stated that such a platform doesn't exist.

You're (correctly) pointing out that comparisons between the non-existent platform and the 'i' model are coming out in Apple's favor.

I challenge you to demonstrate the capabilities of your crystal ball: would the comparison come out the same way if the alternative existed?

That's the realm of 'opinion' which gets really sticky, and yet you speak with authority, without labeling you conjecture as such. It is really easy to say Apple wins a contest against an imaginary foe. Less so should that foe actually show up to the fight.

Thusly, I call bullshit on your bullshit call. You just can't know this with enough confidence to take such a strong position.

Re:Yes. (2, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508816)

I challenge you to demonstrate the capabilities of your crystal ball: would the comparison come out the same way if the alternative existed?

If the iPad still offered the better user experience? Absolutely.

See, you seem to be *completely* missing my point.

Given two devices, one open and one closed, guess which one would win? The one that provides a better *user experience*. "Open" and "closed" don't even factor into the equation. Which is my entire fucking point. Your average consume doesn't give a shit that they can't develop software for their little toy. All they care about is that the thing provides a silky smooth, easy-to-use experience, that it allows them to consume content they're interested in, and that it works reliably and well. That's it.

"Open" versus "closed" is an argument for the geeks. But the geeks aren't the target market for the iPad, and won't be the determining factor in the success or failure of the tablet market.

Re:Yes. (1)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508738)

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit.

I know this isn't a popular opinion here on Slashdot, but guess what? *Most people don't give a shit about "open" or "closed" hardware*. Hell, they probably don't even realize the iPlatform is a closed ecosystem, as that's only evident if you try to develop for the thing.

No, this idiotic meme that "if only they'd open the hardware, they'd destroy everyone!", no matter what "they" is (PS3, NDS, iPlatform, etc), needs to stop. It's so hilariously naive it just makes you look stupid.

You're right nobody cares about openness.

People care about whether it will do what they want it to do. I need something with will do e-books and run Anathema for my Exalted games, since the iPad doesn't do Java, that's a deal breaker.

Re:Yes. (3, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508770)

> I know this isn't a popular opinion here on Slashdot, but guess what? *Most people don't give a shit about "open" or "closed" hardware*

Being "open" simply means that the hardware can do ANYTHING that any other PC can.

Read the data you want.

Access your data freely.

Do trivial things that you're used to doing on a normal PC like PRINTING.

A REAL COMPUTER does anything that anyone can imagine. A glorified iPod does only what Apple allows.

It's amazing that anyone actually defends this nonsense.

Re:Yes. (1)

Trashman (3003) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508458)

People will still need to do things that Apple won't allow.

What is it that you're looking to do that the iPad (and conversely, Apple) doesn't allow? Not trolling, I'm genuinely curious. I don't own an iPad, but I do have an iPhone. With the exception of tethering, which at&t disallows until they receive their pound of flesh, it does pretty much everything I would want a phone to do.

Re:Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508522)

Does it make calls when held normally without a case?

Re:Yes. (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508888)

I still need to access my data and my devices freely without any bullshit or stupid hacks or hoops from Apple.

The "easy Apple approach" is actually much more of a bother.

My data. Websites of my choosing. The occasional desire to print.

Re:Yes. (2, Interesting)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508466)

No, no, and no. Did I mention no?

A proper open tablet might draw more of an audience, but I'm not even convinced of that. If I got a tablet, it would be for specific purposes. I might not mind a walled garden nearly as much for that purpose. It's not that a tablet would ever replace a main computer for me.

I love netbooks, they are light and portable and great for carry-around computing until my cell phone can slide a paper-thin full-sized keyboard out of the side and project a 10-12" screen on any surface. I can tether my Blackberry to my eeePC and connect to work, I can do almost anything on them I can do on a full desktop, albeit more slowly and on a smaller screen.

I still want a tablet, but it would be a replacement for my old paper kneeboard, AFD, backup GPS, and charts when flying. Trying to set one up as a temporary portable workstation would require that I carry some sort of keyboard, some sort of mounting rig to hold it upright, and a netbook is a better tool for that, and a tablet that can be expanded to that capability would be heavy and unwieldy for my tablet needs.

Different niches, different form factors, very little overlap between the two in real world usage.

Re:Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508486)

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

No it wouldn't. There are plenty of Netbook users who need to type while it is placed on a flat surface I.e. they want a keyboard and a clamshell design. I can't hold a tablet in one arm and type on it while I'm stood on a ladder with my head in a nest of wires at the top of a rack. I can however place my netbook at the top of the rack and type on it.

Re:Yes. (1)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508544)

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

You mean like the TabletPCs did? The ones that a figure with the visibility of Bill Gates used to keep promoting as the Next Big Thing in computers?

No. Keyboardless tablets have a niche. A much bigger one now that someone's doing the hardware and software right for it (i.e. touch interface, with touch-designed OS), but still a specific niche. Netbooks have another niche. So do 17" laptops. And desktops with 24-inch screens and 101-keyboards. And smartphones with thumbpads. Etc. I don't see any of them going away.

Re:Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508632)

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks... but only if it included a decent keyboard (on-screen doesn't count).

But there's already a device like that. It's called... wait for it... a netbook! Look up the EEE-PC T91 as an example. There's your open tablet.

Seriously, Apple does great interfaces and amazing marketing. What they don't do is anything someone else hasn't already done before.

Where is the evidence (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508352)

Next time, please provide some [credible] numbers when talking about issues like this because from my vantage point, all folks I know that bought these iPads use them for about 30 minutes a day. Compare that to about 6 hours a day for their netbooks.

Seems all the hype around the iPad has waned! I personally will not use the gadget until it becomes more functional and even then, I will likely use a competing platform than Apple's.

Re:Where is the evidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508442)

Amusing that you would ask for credible numbers and then state vague anecdotal evidence as fact in the very same post.

Re:Where is the evidence (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508570)

A tablet can be a very good semi-mobile browser. This is a use case for which netbooks also fit.

However, tablets (and the iPad in particular) has some distinct disadvantages even in terms of
fairly passive web browsing. Whether or not you will run afoul of this is all dependent on your
use of the device.

The iPad is like the Wii: it represents a cool new shift in technology that needs to be quickly
assimilated and copied by the rest of the industry. The "package" isn't the cool thing, the new
bit of technology is. It would be too limiting for the industry if that cool new bit were
restricted to a single vendor that likes to ignore vast and significant portions of the market.

Nintendo execs and Wii users are just more casual and less obnoxious and less prone to whine
about how "the world as you know it is about to come to an end".

Re:Where is the evidence (4, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508906)

Very true. I bought an iPad not fully aware of all the little limitations it has. I was aware there is no flash and no third party apps, but after using the thing for 4 months I've built a long list of shortcomings they just don't tell you about.

At the top of the list is one so frustratingly counterintuitive. I'm studying for a Ph.D., and part of that job includes reading paper after paper. Reading the papers is just great on the iPad, but you can't actually download and save papers from the iPad itself.

To get a paper on my iPad for offline viewing, I actually have to open up my netbook and e-mail the pdf to myself, then save it to iBooks from the mail app. E-mailing is actually the easiest file transfer method between iPad and computer, the alternative being digging out a cable, launching iTunes (kill me now) and syncing (and just sync the PDF if you want to get on with things, instead of waiting for EVERYTHING to sync). There is no wireless file transfer option.

Of course there are other options and apps out there which can hack together this functionality, but the main point is there are hundreds of examples of things like this, where you expect the functionality and it isn't there, necessitating a netbook or other companion PC.

The net effect is, I'm constantly switching between my iPad and netbook, and I'm increasingly wondering why I have an iPad at all. If it weren't for how great it is to read on, I'd probably sell it.

Re:Yes. (1)

Mjec (666932) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508360)

Next question!

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Re:Yes. (1)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508812)

African or European?

Re:Yes. (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508838)

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

African or European?

Re:Yes. (1)

RabbitWho (1805112) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508398)

I don't think they do. They are both for people who want an ultra-portable computer and are willing to sacrifice certain stuff like CD drives etc. etc. etc. I don't see why anyone would want both. I think you'd either by a tablet, if you wanted ultra portable (i'm talking in 2 years time when tablets aren't shit) a laptop, if you wanted semi-portable (like if your job means you're somewhere different every week or every month or every year and you want a proper computer you can put in your backpack) or a desktop pc (if you have your own house or are living with your parents and when your read in public you feel self-conscious)

I don't see that there's any niche for a netbook.. unless you really really want a proper laptop and you can't afford one.. because netbooks are just cheap laptops.

Re:Yes. (1)

Cougar Town (1669754) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508604)

I would definitely have all three. I currently have a full powerful desktop, and a netbook. The netbook is great for taking places easily and doing some work. I do real things (real work, games, etc) on my desktop with all its memory, disk space, video card, etc.

I currently use the netbook for some things I'd rather have a tablet for. Quickly picking it up to read some news or check Facebook or Google Reader. Sure I can do that with my netbook, but for me a tablet is better suited. I can treat it like a newspaper or magazine and keep it on my coffee table. Or easily pass it off to a friend, etc...

Basically, I'd use the tablet for more personal-related things where I'm mostly consuming information. I'd use the netbook for something very portable to do some actual work on the go. And the desktop for the real heavy stuff.

Do I *need* all three? No, but in an ideal world I'd have all three since each does the job I want it to in the best way for me.

Re:Yes. (2, Interesting)

vtcodger (957785) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508736)

***I don't see that there's any niche for a netbook.. unless you really really want a proper laptop and you can't afford one.. because netbooks are just cheap laptops.***

You might want to talk to my wife. She uses her computers for four things -- playing FreeCell, reading e-books, eMail, and web surfing. Her netbook does all those things well. She loves it.

Until we get tablets with real keyboards with tactile feedback, I'm pretty sure that they are not going to replace her netbook.

Re:Yes. (2, Interesting)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508872)

I don't see that there's any niche for a netbook.. unless you really really want a proper laptop and you can't afford one.. because netbooks are just cheap laptops.

Not quite. They're also often small/light laptops. Often their smaller screens and lower power also mean more battery life.

My laptop is a high performance machine as laptops go, because its primary use (or most important use, if not always the one that's most common depending on what's going on with work) was to be a portable development machine for use at clients who preferred I provide my own hardware. It's not cheap, it's not especially light, and it goes through battery faster than a stoned college student goes through Taco Bell. It's perfectly suited to its purpose, and yet, it's very much NOT what I would want a netbook to be.

Re:Yes. (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508448)

Uh, what are those niches, exactly?

When the netbook came out, I heard that people wanted one for:

1) Web browsing.
2) Checking email.

Basically, as a lightweight alternative to dragging around a full sized laptop when you didn't really care if the keyboard was easy to use.

But wait! That sounds an awful lot like what I hear people use tablets like the iPad for.

So, what *exactly* are these two, somewhat overlapping niches you are referring to?

Re:Yes. (1)

cybaz (538103) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508754)

There is overlap in the above, but netbooks are for people who have occasional need to use a native Windows/Linux app or need to use peripherals. Tablets are for people who are okay with the apps specific to Android/iOS, and understand they won't be able to run Excel or plug in a printer. Basically Tablets are for people who want a large smartphone and Netbooks are for people who want a tiny laptop.

Re:Yes. (3, Interesting)

0123456 (636235) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508764)

So, what *exactly* are these two, somewhat overlapping niches you are referring to?

To me there are four big differences between the netbook and the Apple i-things:

1. Netbook has a keyboard you can type on, even if adapting to it takes some time.
2. Netbook will run Windows and random Windows software.
3. Netbook generally has better performance and is capable of running a lot of older Windows games (video is different as I believe i-things have hardware H.264 support and the netbook probably doesn't?).
4. The netbook costs half as much.

To me it's more a question of whether you want a small but real keyboard and the ability to run arbitrary software than anything else. If, say, you really want to run Windows for some reason then the i-things are a total non-starter.

So I don't see how anyone can claim that they're interchangeable. Price, lack of keyboard and inability to run my applications mean I wouldn't even consider an i-thingy.

Re:Yes. (1)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508786)

Well...

netbook = smaller laptop

tablet = larger smartphone

I already have a smartphone that's always with me. So really all I need is something to do the things that I can't do efficiently on my phone.

Just bought a touchscreen kit for my eeePC901, which was maybe the only additional convenience a tablet might have added.

Re:Yes. (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508728)

The strange thing is the netbook is somewhere between a laptop and a tablet. That's why I've never understood the appeal of a netbook. Need portability? Get a tablet. Need raw power, use a laptop.

I have to admit that when I see a netbook in public, I think it looks incredibly irrelevant next to iPad guy.

did kuro5hin finally kick the bucket? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508248)

or did the thought police kill rusty to prevent crawford from revealing the secret of conway's life?

Apple didn't just invent the tablet (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508256)

Gah. These summaries are getting worse and worse. Tablets have been around for awhile. Apple didn't invent the market with the iPad. They didn't invent the portable MP3 player with the ipod, nor did they invent the smart phone with the iphone. Those markets were established, and Apple developed a highly polished version that did well in that market. Tablets have been around, and they serve a slightly different niche from the netbook. They existed side by side before the iPad, and will continue to do so.

Summary does not claim invention (3, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508344)

Gah. These summaries are getting worse and worse. Tablets have been around for awhile. Apple didn't invent the market with the iPad.

No, they didn't invent the market.

They just figured out how to make a product that would sell into the market.

Tablets simply never sold before the way the iPad is selling.

Apple developed a highly polished version that did well in that market.

Normally I would agree, as that is what Apple does with most things.

But there was nothing in the market to polish. There was nothing in the tablet space like the iPad. It was all PC/Stylus based, kind of the opposite to what the iPad is and why it works.

Was there even a single touch-capible system in there? I don't remember any.

Re:Summary does not claim invention (1, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508414)

> Tablets simply never sold before the way the iPad is selling. ...that's because all of the old tablets are real PCs and this new thing is an overgrown iPod.

That is why id can be so cheap. You also have to gravely restrict what can be done with the device in order to cover up the fact that it's running hardware that's about 10 years old in PC terms.

It's an Apple so you know the margins are very much in their favor. So they managed to take something cheap it up while still keeping it dressed up.

It's a dinosaur with lipstick.

Definitive answer (3, Funny)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508266)

No.

I mistakenly left my Acer netbook on my bedside table and my old Fujitsu stylistic on my bed when I left for work yesterday. When I got home, all I found on my bed was some half-melted plastic and blown capacitors.

There can be only one...

Re:Definitive answer (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508290)

There can be only one...

"There can be only none, Debbie."

Not as long as I'm around... (1)

zethreal (982453) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508274)

I'll stick with my netbook because I prefer having a real keyboard (even a smaller one). I don't know if it's just me being a late adapter, but I like the feel of real keys over a touchscreen. I'd never buy an iPad because I'm not a huge fan of any Apple OS I've tried through the years. I'm still not really sure if I'd buy a tablet from any other manufacturer either.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (2, Interesting)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508312)

You obviously don't ride public transport then. A HUGE advantage of tablets over netbooks for people that do is that you can actually use the tablet standing up. You aren't going to be typing a novel on it, but it is in fact usable. Just try to use a netbook while standing up, my guess is that you won't be making very many friends.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (1)

A Friendly Troll (1017492) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508388)

You obviously don't ride public transport then. A HUGE advantage of tablets over netbooks for people that do is that you can actually use the tablet standing up

Sounds perfect for pickpockets. "Hey, I'm paying attention to my electronic gizmo and both of my hands are occupied, so one isn't resting on my wallet pocket!"

Don't do that. You'll get robbed.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (1)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508540)

Sounds perfect for pickpockets. "Hey, I'm paying attention to my electronic gizmo and both of my hands are occupied, so one isn't resting on my wallet pocket!"

Don't do that. You'll get robbed.

I'm fat, my wallet is hard enough for ME to get out of my pants.

And here you thought the truffle shuffle was just a trendy dance move.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508392)

This is a classic case of a dwarf calling a midget shorty.

You obviously don't ride public transport either.

Futzing with a large tablet in a standing room only train? You must be joking. That's not going to endear you any better than trying to mess with a notebook. ...ok, mebbe you really do ride public transport and you're just a big fat inconsiderate jerk.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508470)

Actually I live in Japan and I, and a lot of other people do use their tablets standing up. It's not as bad as you seem to think it is.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (1, Redundant)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508428)

I'm surprised there isn't a gadet like a tray that hangs round your neck. Sort of like ther ones icecream sellers in cinemas used to have.

Re:Not as long as I'm around... (1)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508500)

You obviously don't ride public transport then. A HUGE advantage of tablets over netbooks for people that do is that you can actually use the tablet standing up. You aren't going to be typing a novel on it, but it is in fact usable. Just try to use a netbook while standing up, my guess is that you won't be making very many friends.

I ride the metro (DC) and typically you can get a seat within one or two stops on the busiest of days, and if I'm going a shorter distance than that, I can survive for the 2 minutes.

You DO have a point, and I use a nook or my iphone on the metro all the time. But I couldn't stand having it up and and exposed to everyone. It would make a VERY attractive snatch and run target. And even from a non malicious front, someone could bump into me and knock it out of my hands, or a sudden jerk could cause me to bump into someone else or fall (not using my hands to hold onto the railings).

It might just be the DC metro, but I just find it easier to wait for a seat. If only so I can angle myself so I don't get people reading over my shoulder.

Netbooks kill themselves (2, Interesting)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508282)

Last summer I bought an EeePC because I was sick of lugging my full-size laptop to and from work to give myself additional screen space to watch Nagios in addition to other work I had going on. That was possibly one of the worst purchases I ever made. The keyboard was too small to type on, and the screen was barely big enough for passive activities, let alone if I required anything "real" to happen on it. I ended up just giving it away to a female friend who's only around 5ft tall (where as I'm 6'4") and thus better proportioned to using such a device.

They only thing they really have going for them is that they're cheap, and it shows in the construction of the things. I haven't yet handled an iPad, but don't expect it to suffer from a feeling of flimsiness, like the scene in Jurassic Park where the lawyer tells the kid if the goggles are heavy, then that means they're expensive and so to put them down. But I think I could find more situations where I would benefit from having a pair of night vision goggles than an iPad. But maybe I'm not really in the target market for either of these things.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (1)

alen (225700) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508374)

i've handled the iPad in the Apple Store and it feels better made than a $1500 HP laptop i used to have that is now in a junk pile after less than 3 years of use

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (1)

gurps_npc (621217) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508380)

True. But the cheapness is perfect for a traveler. Think of someone that goes on 10 trips a year. Do you want to haul an expensive PC around, knowing full well that there is the chance of it being knocked around, having the TSA abuse their authority and confiscate it for no reason (to return it 1 year later...) etc. etc. Now, how much do you want to spend ond it.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508488)

They only thing they really have going for them is that they're cheap, and it shows in the construction of the things.

Weird. My $300 EeePc feels far more solid than my $1000 Toshiba laptop.

I agree about the size, but they're not intended for typing eight hours a day... and neither is a 'pad'. A netbook is great for doing basic stuff on the road and cheap enough that if it's stolen I don't have to worry too much about buying another one; it's also probably less likely to be stolen than something with the magic Apple logo on the back.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (3, Interesting)

irid77 (1539905) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508658)

The EeePc seems to vary in sturdiness based on the model. My 1000HE is rock-rolid and all-in-all it's the best-built laptop I've ever owned. My parents have the 1101HA and it's much flimsier.. the hinge for the screen is loose and the keyboard is spongy. Also, the graphics are noticeably slow, probably because of the extra pixels in the larger screen. Just have to pick the right one.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508710)

How sad, a faggot that needs to justify his crappy purchase.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508894)

How sad, a faggot that needs to justify his crappy existence.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508668)

You can't denounce all netbooks as cheap just because you happened to buy a cheap netbook. My HP Mini is certainly well built and in no danger of falling apart any time soon, and I'd much rather have that than an iPad.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508730)

I have a Samsung netbook. The keyboard is very comfortable to use. The battery lasts for eight hours. The construction is solid. The screen is big enough for programming, web browsing, and even flash games. Best of all: it is extremely portable - being small is a virtue.

It sounds like you elected to buy a low-quality device with a small keyboard. That's a problem with you, not a problem with netbooks in general.

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508788)

I ended up just giving it away to a female friend who's only around 5ft tall (where as I'm 6'4") and thus better proportioned to using such a device.

Does she still use it? If so, you already disproved your subject line.

I know my sister still uses her netbook. My wife loved her (actually mine, but that's semantics) EEE PC 701 4G for surfing on the hospitals WiFi when she has to stay there for 7 months (don't ask!). If your friend still uses it, it could simply be an indication that due to your body build you can't use those devices but people who don't have the constraints you have, can be very happy with them. As far as I seen, netbooks are very popular with the ladies. Cute, fits purse and they... don't have large fingers.

Look at it this way: I've got a roadster. I'm 1.8m tall and it fits like a glove. I've got a friend, who is nearly 2m tall. I let him do a test drive. He just barely fit with the steering wheel between his knees. The vehicle was, from his point of view, completely unusable because of his size. Seems, you have the same problem with netbooks. That's not really the "fault" of the netbook, now is it?

Re:Netbooks kill themselves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508804)

Meanwhile I much prefer my EeePC to a full-size laptop because it's much more portable. It fits in just about whatever bag I choose to take with me at the time and the sacrifices in experience are minimal. The keyboard is perfectly comfortable to use and while the screen is cramped I still use it for managing, editing, and uploading photos. ...Using Photoshop, that application that everybody says can't be used on a netbook. ...Doing content creation, that thing everybody says netbooks are no good for.

I won't claim it's a frustration-free experience, but the frustration is minimal and will go away as netbooks start getting dual-core processors. For the price and the portability it's a worthwhile experience. It doesn't feel cheap at all. It's as sturdy as the Powerbook I used to have. Battery life blows away any laptop I've ever used.

As far as tablets go, the iPad is obviously no replacement for a device I use for content creation. As soon as you use the word "workflow" a device like the iPad becomes useless. I am planning on getting a tablet some day, but it remains to be seen if it can replace my netbook. It's possible, but considering I'm working with photos I need a high-precision pointer. That generally excludes capacitive touchscreens.

Two worlds (1)

chemicaldave (1776600) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508288)

Netbooks and the iPad are in two wholly separate worlds. Netbooks have so many qualities that set them apart from the iPad that this shouldn't be a hard question. The answer is yes.

Not Only Coexist, But../ (2, Insightful)

BoRegardless (721219) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508302)

iPads (& similar) can be THE computer for the rest of society who didn't want a laptop or other computer.

Why?

Because it doesn't have to be treated and coddled like a "computer", at least if it is an iPad.

I've seen both the very young and very old become adept in doing things they like in minutes.

Re:Not Only Coexist, But../ (1, Troll)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508480)

...except you can't save anything, print anything, access any random website, or access any random bit of data.

It's not really a computer in the usual sense.

It's not even comparable to an Apple computer.

It's all dependent on this idea that a computer, even an Apple computer is "too much for the masses to deal with".

Although that's contrary to the old Apple propaganda. The Mac used to be the proposed solution to all of normal consumer's PC difficulties.

It's still no less valid. It's just less under Steve's thumb and less successful and not quite as tied into Apple's previous successes.

There's no market inertia or vendor lock associated with it that Apple can exploit.

The iPad doesn't need to be castrated despite the protestations of fanboys.

Re:Not Only Coexist, But../ (2, Insightful)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508518)

Question: Can you actually use the iPad without having a computer which runs iTunes? If the answer to that is "Yes, you can", then you're right. Otherwise, the iPad is just an accessory to your real computer.

Re:Not Only Coexist, But../ (3, Insightful)

Arkham (10779) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508772)

You can actually have your iPad activated at the Apple store, and never connect it to a computer again. Generally, I connect mine once a month or so to back up the apps, books, and documents, but that's it really. It's definitely an area where some improvement is due (and iOS 4.2 in November adds some of this, like wireless printing) though.

This entire premise is flawed. If you need a physical keyboard for lots of data input, an iPad (or any tablet with a touchscreen) isn't ever going to fit the bill. It doesn't matter what you do. Similarly, if you are primarily interested in media consumption (web, video, etc), then the tiny screen on a netbook isn't going to cut it.

Re:Not Only Coexist, But../ (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508866)

Follow up question: Can it update itself (Security Updates, etc...) without a PC?

I'm not trying to diss the iPad, it already has enough flaws in itself, but I'm trying to verify if it is indeed a full replacement for a computer "for the rest of us" as the original poster claimed.

I recently (and in the past, in my iBook days) had such a bad customer experience with Apple that I really will try to avoid their products. The iPad does look like a nifty device for surfing on the couch, but to me that's not worth 500€ (smallest model). To me that's worth 200€, tops.... especially given the constraints.

As for the "tiny screen"... You do realise that the iPad is 1024x768, don't you? Which by all measurements is pretty crappy. Sure, it is incredible compared to the original EEE PC 701, but netbooks moved beyond that already.

Some yes, some no (1)

rwven (663186) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508320)

It all depends on the consumer, the netbook and the tablet you're talking about. The iPad can definitely take the place of a netbook for ME. Other people might want a full featured office client and a mouse in which case NO Tablet would be a suitable replacement. We've also not yet seen a real foray into the market of a competitive Android tablet.

Use what works for you, and whoever "wins" will be left standing at the end. And maybe they'll all win.

When can I program on it? (1)

thomasdz (178114) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508326)

I play around making random C, Perl, and even BASIC programs on my Netbook
I'm pretty sure Apple is NEVER going to allow a Turing-complete programming language on the iPad.

Re:When can I program on it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508368)

BASIC?

Perhaps you should get an iPad...

Re:When can I program on it? (3, Funny)

thomasdz (178114) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508408)

Yeah... BASIC: I have SIMH running an HP2000F emulation and guess what? You programmed those machines in BASIC sonny.
I also program occasionally in COBOL...wanna make fun of me some more?
I also program in BrainFuck...can I be cool now?

Re:When can I program on it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508382)

I play around making random C, Perl, and even BASIC programs on my Netbook
I'm pretty sure Apple is NEVER going to allow a Turing-complete programming language on the iPad.

I bet there's a game of life app somewhere.

Re:When can I program on it? (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508494)

And thus you label yourself as being part of the 0.1% of the consumer population who gives a shit about "making random ... programs".

You are not the target market. You are not the yardstick by which to measure the success or failure of these devices.

Re:When can I program on it? (1)

Albanach (527650) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508560)

I'm pretty sure Apple is NEVER going to allow a Turing-complete programming language on the iPad.

I suspect you're right.

Nevertheless, you can have an ssh terminal, vnc client and an X windows server.

Re:When can I program on it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508698)

I'm pretty sure Apple is NEVER going to allow a Turing-complete programming language on the iPad.

Javascript is Turning-complete.

Stupid question (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508372)

Obviously not. If you leave them in the same room they'll throw all the fucking furniture at each other.

Again? (1)

safetyinnumbers (1770570) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508430)

The only people who want to ask this question are the people writing articles about it.

Ipad vs other tablets vs netbooks (1, Insightful)

gurps_npc (621217) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508450)

The reason why the Ipad sold well is that people are willing to spend extra money to get an Apple. Partly due to fashion (they are 'cooler') and partly due to anti-virus fears, and partly due to a hatred of Windows.

Apple did not 'figure out how to make one that sells', they just are the only company able to sell luxury PC products to average consumers and they realized that the reason tablets have not been sellign is that they are luxury PC products. So they moved in on a section of their own market that they had been ignoring.

As for netbooks, people buy them for one reason - they don't cost a lot of money. Thnis is the exact OPPOSITE market from apple. Both products will continue to thrive. Apple will continue to add on new 'almost cheap enough for mass market' features while the tablets will continue to get cheaper and cheaper.

Re:Ipad vs other tablets vs netbooks (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508542)

As for netbooks, people buy them for one reason - they don't cost a lot of money.

Not true. I bought mine because I was visiting my relatives in England and it's half the size of my laptop so it was much easier to carry around.

Certainly cost is part of the reason for buying them, but not the only reason... you can buy a low-end laptop for not much more than the cost of a mid-range netbook.

Re:Ipad vs other tablets vs netbooks (2, Interesting)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508672)

partly due to a hatred of Windows.

WTF? Do you spend any time outside of slashdot? People definitely do not hate Microsoft. Heck, I've had people complaining to me upon giving them an XP laptop that it didn't have (back then) Vista on it. (Yes, this really happened) Try selling Linux to one of those so called people that "carry hatred towards Windows". You'll see how quickly they'll flee back to their "hated" operating system. You and I know that 95% of normal users needs are covered by Linux.

I hope you realise that people do not blame Microsoft for their computer woes. As a matter of fact, people who understand that Windows is the source of their problems are the low-end power users and Apple Fanbois (Linux Fanbois too, lately). The high-end power users, know how to secure their machines and won't have problems. (I'm one of these weird people who has been running Windows XP for years as a limited user, and it fucking works. You just have to know how.) The non-power users will just point at the computer and say "my computer is acting up again". To them their is no separation of OS and hardware.

...from my cold dead hands! (2, Interesting)

MrNiceguy_KS (800771) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508456)

If someone took my netbook and gave me an iPad to replace it, I would use the iPad to beat them until they agreed to give my netbook back.

I bought my netbook before the iPad's release, but I bought it because I needed a *Computer*, not an appliance. I use it for work, and I'm essentially on-call tech support 24-7. I needed a laptop that was small enough I can take it anywhere, and cheap enough that I don't mind taking it everywhere. I need to be able to run the software I need to run. I need to be able to connect to a Windows Terminal Server. I also need something with an actual USB port, so I'm not limited in the hardware I can connect it to.

Many of the things I use my netbook for, I could use an iPad instead. But not everything. I could probably replace my Acer netbook with a hypothetical Apple netbook - call it a MacBook Mini - but Apple has made it pretty clear that they don't want to get into that market.

Actually, Apple has made it clear that they aren't interested in me as a customer. I want an inexpensive desktop machine that I can play a few games on, and can upgrade the video card every few years so I can keep playing games on. I also want the laptop I described above - small enough I can take it everywhere, and cheap enough that I'm willing to do so. I know people who use Apple's stuff generally love it, but they just aren't selling to me.

Netvertible (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508510)

They even invented a word to tell when both coexist not just in the same market, but in the same device.

Funny Story (1)

DannyO152 (544940) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508512)

I could have sworn I left my Calico Tablet and my Gingham Netbook on the desk last night.

Asking this... on Slashdot? (2, Informative)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508594)

Maybe it's just me - but the Slashdot crowd seems like entirely the wrong demographic for this question. Or, at least, for you to get an answer that'd translate to the world at large. Anyway...

Given the size and weight (my daughter has an iPad, and I have borrowed it several times) - I'd take neither. The netbook makes too many compromises, and the iPad is too heavy for what it is. I know it's a pound and a half lighter than my MacBook Air, but (due to the ways they're held and used) I couldn't possibly use an iPad for a long period of time while the weight of the Air is generally unnoticeable. I think for the iPad to truly own the "small and light" market, it needs to shed more weight - get down reasonably close to the Kindle.

Of course my daughter is probably much closer to the target demographic than I am, and she loves the iPad to death. So my opinion should be taken with an appropriately-sized grain of salt.

I think tablets will end up niche products (2, Insightful)

AmazingRuss (555076) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508610)

The thing about a tablet is you have to hold the thing. You can't just set it on your lap, or on a table unless you prop it up somehow. A netbook has a built in kickstand that doubles as a keyboard and screen protector. Add a touch screen and you've pretty much eliminated any advantage a tablet has.

They are completely different products (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508656)

I went on vacation earlier this year, and brought my netbook (a Lenovo S10e) just after the iPad came out.

I kind of went through the list of things I was doing with it. Can I connect my camera memory card to an iPad? No. Can I charge my flip camera with an iPad? no. It was half the cost of an iPad. If I want to add memory or hard drive space I can do it relatively easily. The Lenovo also managed to survive a knife edge drop from 3 feet (roughly a meter) onto a tile floor while it was on with no damage other than a trim piece broke.

Don't get me wrong, the iPad is a cool product. It has a much longer battery life and it is more portable for airplanes and car rides.

With some of the other tablets coming out with either the Windows or Droid OS I'll have to see. Having USB ports would be a big thing to me for usability.

Which ones are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508700)

Autobots, and which are Decepticons?

Sadly... (1)

croftj (2359) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508732)

It is just the nature of Tablets to kill NetBooks. Typically it is done through choking but there have been a few cases of stabbings and drownings as well.

What is with the tablet vs netbook "war"? (2, Insightful)

AragornSonOfArathorn (454526) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508784)

Can tablets and netbooks coexist? Can science and religion coexist? Can dogs and cats coexist?

Tablets and netbooks are different products for different purposes. How are they even competing? And no, the iPad won't kill netbooks. It costs thee times as much as a netbook.

Gobble Gobble Gobble? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508828)

The iPad is a turkey?

Netbooks and Tablets (1)

Zalbik (308903) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508860)

There can be only one! No, wait...that's something else...

Sure. Can Apples and Oranges co-exist?

No (1)

northernfrights (1653323) | more than 4 years ago | (#33508862)

Everyone knows that netbooks and tablets, like matter and anti-matter, will annihilate each other if they come in contact.

Neither matters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33508868)

Neither tablets nor netbooks have a significant niche. They are both too large to carry without being a hassle, at least to some degree. Neither offers the same usability and flexibility as a laptop. Ultimately, people are either going to get a smartphone, which is small enough for a pocket or purse; or they're going to bring a laptop so they have a full computer's functionality. Tablets are a gimmick, while netbooks are only really suitable for things you could do well enough with a smartphone.

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