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IOS 4.1 Jailbroken Already

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the what-took-so-long dept.

Cellphones 315

mspohr writes "Just hours after Apple released iOS 4.1 to great fanfare, hardware hackers found a way to jailbreak devices that run the new operating system. More surprising still, there doesn't appear to be anything Steve Jobs can do to stop them in the near future. The exploit in the boot ROM of iOS devices was first announced by iPhone Dev-Team member pod2g. It was soon confirmed by other hackers, who said that because the exploit targets such a low-level part of the operating system, Apple won't be able to stop jailbreakers without making significant hardware changes."

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Incoming sockpuppet troll odies/sopssa/SquarePixel (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519226)

Which sockpuppet will be used to troll this thread?

Remember it moderators, odies = sopssa = SquarePixel, three sockpuppets, one stupid troll! His posts are simple: repeat ad nauseam what the article posted, add a few 'Captain Obvious' style facts and then add his anti Linux/Google/Apple/USA innuendo. Or it's a simple China or MS apologist post that turns into a straw man, and you guessed it, it's against Linux/Google/Apple/USA.

Peace out!

Re:Incoming sockpuppet troll odies/sopssa/SquarePi (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519272)

i think you're the same guy.

Re:Incoming sockpuppet troll odies/sopssa/SquarePi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519608)

He's a subscriber, obviously. ./ admins should ban his account(s) for disparaging other members, even if all of them are himself.

Apple's security (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519238)

Apple always says Mac OS X and Apple products are secure, non-exploitable and virus free. How are there exploits then?

Re:Apple's security (-1, Troll)

imamac (1083405) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519294)

Sucure from what? External sources?--Generally yes. Secure from the owner modifying the software directly?--No.

Re:Apple's security (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519352)

this is absolutely incorrect, the first gen ios4 exploits were remote exploits.

Re:Apple's security (-1, Troll)

imamac (1083405) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519382)

I did say "generally", not "always". It also took Apple very little time to put out a fix.

Re:Apple's security (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519432)

The point you miss is that it existing. These devices are not new and apple have plenty of unix experience these days. Their apps are broken and they're running at the wrong user level. They basically have a bad a reputation as MS for securing their devices.

Re:Apple's security (0, Troll)

imamac (1083405) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519488)

So I need to figure this out...is it that Apple lock their devices down too much? Or that they are not locked down enough? Can't be both...

Re:Apple's security (3, Insightful)

Servaas (1050156) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519506)

Correct way of stating is: They are too locked down when it comes to user configuration yet to open to be called a secure device.

Re:Apple's security (4, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519668)

is it that Apple lock their devices down too much? Or that they are not locked down enough? Can't be both...

Why can't it be both? Can't you grasp the difference between too locked down for the owner and too locked down for an attacker?

Let me put it in the same way (including misspellings) as your original post:

Suckure from what? External sources?--Generally not enough. Secure from the owner modifying the software directly?--Generally too much.

Re:Apple's security (2, Interesting)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519358)

Sucure from what? External sources?--Generally yes.

The last major ios crack required very little user intervention. Visiting a website & sliding a button IIRC.

Secure from the owner modifying the software directly?

That is precisely what Apple is trying to prevent owners of the software from doing.

Re:Apple's security (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520126)

Technically the last jailbreak didn't even /require/ that, all it required was embedding a PDF in a webpage.

Re:Apple's security (2, Informative)

pankkake (877909) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519490)

The last Apple jailbreak was a remote exploit, and it was left unpatched for weeks. This is very serious, yet most fanboys were just proud it was so "easy" to jailbreak their iPoos.

Re:Apple's security (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519320)

Apple ... are secure, non-exploitable and virus free. How are there exploits then?

They're two different things. One is a remote exploit and the other is hacking hardware in your possession.

Because they are full of shit (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519354)

If you have a system that people can get at and modify, then there is no such thing as a secure system. This idea that you can make an OS that can't be exploited is BS. Certainly things can be done to make it harder, but you can't make it impossible.

You discover that in the event you do need something, like say a database server, that is "exploit free" that to get it you have to cope with a lot of restrictions. The company that sells it to you, someone like IBM, will be providing the hardware, OS, software, and so on. They'll have tested it all extensively to make sure that there aren't any hidden issues that might cause a crash. Once in place, you don't get to touch it. There is no installing software on it, no messing with it. It will run what they say it'll run. If changes need to be made, it'll be a lengthy and expensive process.

What's more, nothing will get at it directly. It'll be behind a firewall (not necessarily the kind of firewall you are used to thinking of), inputs will be sanitized, that kind of thing. It will only get inputs that are clean, in the correct format, that can't cause problems. Needless to say, it'll be in a secure server room and your staff had better leave it alone.

When you totally control a system like that, yes with testing you can be pretty sure it is "bug free" and "exploit free". However for something going out to the masses? No such thing. The person with physical access can pretty much do anything, but even if not security is hard to guarantee. When arbitrary apps can be installed, some of those can be evil. Things like filtering them (as is done with the app store) can reduce it, but not eliminate it.

Re:Apple's security (1, Flamebait)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519360)

Is your house secure? What if you let me hang out on the back porch with a crowbar for a while? Still secure?

Re:Apple's security (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519500)

Did he ever claim his house is fully secure? No? You have no point.

Re:Apple's security (2, Insightful)

jefe7777 (411081) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519486)

if you have physical access to the box, all bets are off.

you must be new here...

Re:Apple's security (1)

strack (1051390) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519518)

well apple is not often in the position where its oses have a large enough marketshare for any hackers to really bother with them.

Re:Apple's security (2, Informative)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519632)

Never, never believe in propaganda.

Re:Apple's security (2, Insightful)

ohcrapitssteve (1185821) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519822)

It's mathematically impossible to make a device completely safe from someone who has complete physical control over it. You can encrypt this and that all you like, but it's literally only a matter of time before someone applies enough computing power and breaks said rights-management. Boot loaders can be heavily obfuscated against reverse engineering, but since the device has to actually boot and work at some point, there's a key to the proverbial lock in that haystack somewhere. I hope I'm making sense, coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

And as for jailbreakme.com, yes, that was a genuine surf-and-get-pwned situation that utilized a "one-two punch" of two exploits, one that caused MobileSafari to execute arbitrary code, and the other that allowed the Unix user that MobileSafari runs as to execute a second payload of code as root. THIS "jailbreak" method was a prime example of sloppy coding and a lack of security mindfulness. Apple could have actually taken a page from Microsoft's recent secure coding initiative by renting some computing power and fuzzing files fed to their world-facing services to try to flesh out exploits. The Unix security model offers fantastic security if you a] implement it correctly and b] don't code sloppily. I get that Apple engineers are probably under an insane time-crunch, but still.

These bootloader jailbreaks however are just cat-and-mouse/whackamole between Apple who has to secure a device but yet make the damn thing actually boot, and an indefinite number of hackers with nothing but time. Hope I've cleared up any confusion anyone feels.

Re:Apple's security (-1, Troll)

indiechild (541156) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519970)

Typical pathetic Apple-hater strawman... when did Apple always say that they're non-exploitable?

pwned! (-1, Offtopic)

Cluelessthanzero (1885004) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519250)

iphone4 pwned!

Come on guys (4, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519288)

Just get a Nokia N900 that already gives you full root access and lets you boot into other stuff anyway without encouraging this closed and inferior platform.

Re:Come on guys (1)

Fackamato (913248) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519344)

But it's not as shiny nor powerful!

Re:Come on guys (1)

Skylinux (942824) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519504)

But it's not as shiny nor powerful!

shh don't tell my N900 or it might stop working on YouTube. It is not about how much power you have but how you use it.

Re:Come on guys (1)

martinux (1742570) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519634)

I'm not following you here.
I use my N900 to guide my telescope, trigger my SLR camera (via IR), as a portable starmap (Orrery, Stellarium), as a SSH/VNC client, as a motion-capture camera... It can do all of these things pretty well simultaneously.

It also dual boots Android and can be overclocked to 900Mhz+ with no stability issues.

If you mean powerful in terms of processor power, that's all good and well but how much of that power are you personally able to use? What good is having a turbo in a car that's only ever used to take the kids to school*? I can appreciate aesthetic but not when it limits productivity.

Speaking of aesthetic - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and whilst I have the freedom to drastically change the N900's interface I don't believe the iPhone supports per-user optimisation.

I see far more power and far greater variation in 'shiny' in a device with a lower clock and less chrome.

* I really tried to avoid a car analogy but I fear slashdot demands it. :)

Re:Come on guys (1)

Brummund (447393) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520066)

* I really tried to avoid a car analogy but I fear slashdot demands it. :)

Ahem, allow me:

Some people like to mix and match, and others just want the default stuff, trusting the chef, so to say.

Imagine it to be like a pizza place. Some restaurants based on this fantastic Italian dish got so much on the menu that you don't need to customize your order (except for an extra hot sauce or two!), and others don't trust the chef to make the correct choices from the great number of delicious toppings available.

Do you trust the chef? Are you happy to let an experienced chef guide you to what is the proper ingredients?

Re:Come on guys (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519390)

But is it as delicious to use as the iPhone? I think I'd rather live in someone else's well-maintained garden than a bitumen courtyard of my own. I'm not really interested in tinkering with my device - I just want it to work.

Re:Come on guys (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519494)

Take a look. You might like it.

Re:Come on guys (1)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519594)

That's an expensive test just to see if you like something. Most people would prefer spending the money on something they're certain they will like.

Re:Come on guys (1)

Custard Horse (1527495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519510)

But is it as delicious to use as the iPhone? I think I'd rather live in someone else's well-maintained garden than a bitumen courtyard of my own. I'm not really interested in tinkering with my device - I just want it to work.

That's the difference between renting and buying a property. With the iPhone you have to update for full compatibility which means you play by the rules *or else*. What if your landlord dug up the garden and replaced it with a pig enclosure - would you be annoyed having just signed a 24 month lease?

At least your bitumen courtyard is *your* bitumen courtyard. Plant a garden if you want - it's your choice.

It is only a matter of time before Apple pull a stunt similar to that with the PS3 'other OS' function and really put themselves on shit street.

For reference I do like the iPhone but will be opting to replace my Nokia with an Android device soon. I will keep my iPod for music and podcasts...

Re:Come on guys (1)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519534)

But is it as delicious to use as the iPhone? I think I'd rather live in someone else's well-maintained garden than a bitumen courtyard of my own. I'm not really interested in tinkering with my device - I just want it to work.

Goodness. I'm not that much of an old-timer (I got my first, five-digit Slashdot UID in 2001), but is anyone else disturbed by how far Slashdot has evolved from "news for nerds, stuff that matters" and the joy of hacking ugly hardware until it's highly powerful?

Re:Come on guys (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519692)

I've got both an iPhone 3G and a Nokia N900 (and also an iPad). Back in April I switched to the N900 because I liked it and it was open. I switched back around the start of July. The reason was simple enough - the application range for the N900 sucked badly, and the Ovi store is extremely poor.

Even with a fully open platform at their disposal, the application market is sorely lacking and the closed platform wins hands down. If I could have the iPhones application market on the N900s hardware, I would be happy.

Re:Come on guys (2, Interesting)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520108)

You're not supposed to get your software from Ovi (which is worthless), but from Debian (which is the biggest OS distribution in existence).

Re:Come on guys (0, Flamebait)

Cwix (1671282) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519760)

I know Im gonna get hit by some mod that doesn't like negative comments about apple... but flamebait? Maybe off topic, but it certainly isn't flamebait.

Remember mods, you dont get to mod somebody down because you disagree.

Re:Come on guys (3, Interesting)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519960)

Remember that iOS also runs on iPods. When I buy a PDA/MP3 player I don't necessarily want it to have a mobile phone built in. I also don't neccessarily want to pay some four hundred bucks for it. Plus there's the demographic of those who used the Back to School offer or bought their iPod second hand or refurbished.

My touch cost me thirty-five bucks (Back to School; I was getting a new MBP and happened across the offer). Unless you can show me a Nokia smartphone for that price I'm going to be content with having to jailbreak it.

the problem with these hacks (3, Insightful)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519318)

Sigh, here are some problems I have with these kind of hacks:

1. If it really becomes a problem for steve, he will block it at the hardware level in the next major version, or even in the next minor version.
2. I cannot rely on the fact that there will always be a jailbreak available if I lose my phone, due to 1.
3. It is only semi-legal. Apple will not like me.
4. I loose support.
5. Companies cannot be based on these kind of hacks due to 1,2,3,4, so there will never be a large user-base (or it will grow very slowly)
6. ...
7. No profit! Due to 5. :)

Re:the problem with these hacks (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519410)

1. If it really becomes a problem for steve, he will block it at the hardware level in the next major version, or even in the next minor version.

The escalation ends at jailbroken, not in protected. Unless you consider possible the full encapsulation of the hardware in a block of resine.

2. I cannot rely on the fact that there will always be a jailbreak available if I lose my phone, due to 1.

1 is false. The argument is similar to "there won't always be cracked versions of windows", i.e.: so unlikely it doesn't really add much to the analysis.

3. It is only semi-legal. Apple will not like me.

Obvious. Non-argument.

4. I lose support.

Only a part of it. But this is completely true and sufficient argument to never crack technology. Exactly the same that we told people some time ago about "clonic computers". Don't play with electronics if you won't be able to deal with the problems.

5. Companies cannot be based on these kind of hacks due to 1,2,3,4, so there will never be a large user-base (or it will grow very slowly)

Companies are an important user base, but not to the point of making private users a minority.

Re:the problem with these hacks (2, Interesting)

Animaether (411575) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519476)

1. And the problem with that is...? I mean.. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply there.. that hackers should go for higher level hacks first so that maybe in the next generation of the hardware they can still use those hacks? Wouldn't that lofty idea go against your remaining points, though?

2. I'm not sure what part you're relying on when you lose a piece of hardware that is dissimilar from another piece of hardware - even if that hardware is only slightly dissimilar - nor what role a jailbreak plays in this.

3.honestly? you think it's only semi-legal? You do realize it's -your- device, right? and you care that Apple wouldn't like you?

4. Yes, you do lose support. How often have you had to get support for the device, and how many of those times did you not have
a choice but to go to Apple? Losing your -warranty- is a bigger issue, methinks.

5. Companies -could- target the jailbreaks, but probably not in a form that they would be -based- on them. How silly a business model would that be? But why would that matter for the userbase? There only needs to be only a single app that is worth it for somebody to jailbreak their device. Whether any other company then cares about having that person as a potential client or not is up to them.

6. See 3.

7. I'm not sure how there wouldn't be -any- profit in it. Let's say you're some lone developer, you make an App that only works on jailbroken devices, and you toss that up on your website that you're already running, behind a small PayPal paywall that you're already using for other software anyway. I'm pretty sure every single sale would be 'profit' if you don't count the time you worked on the App as an offset cost; Some people go watch a movie, other people use the 2 hours to knock up a little app. Seems to me going to the movies is a bigger cost.

That said.. I'm all for people just using a more open platform to begin with - but people seem to want their cake and eat it too ( not that there's anything wrong with that.. what else would to do with a cake, unless you're a clown? ) - so the truly open platforms tend to be more of a niche market than the popular platforms.. regardless of their level of openness.

Re:the problem with these hacks (1)

jamesh (87723) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519546)

1. If it really becomes a problem for steve, he will block it at the hardware level in the next major version, or even in the next minor version.

I've never bothered jailbreaking my iPhone (3GS) so this would actually be really cool if it happened (assuming it's a hardware update that applies to all future iPhones but doesn't affect existing iPhones) - my iPhone which is now nearly 12 months old suddenly becomes much more valuable as the 'classic' hackable model :)

Why all the iPhone hack-talk but none for Android? (1)

King_TJ (85913) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519730)

As a former iPhone user who recently switched to Android based phones (not because I disliked the iPhone, mind you - but simply because I disliked AT&T), I've seen a weird "disconnect" between ultimately similar issues with both platforms.
The media is constantly harping on the iPhone and its current jailbreak situation. Is firmware X broken? What does the LAW say about that? Is Steve Jobs pissed about it? What happens when firmware X.1 is released? Will jailbreakers skip the minor release and save their good exploit for a major rev? Stay tuned!!

Meanwhile, over in Android-land, you've got all these new makes and models of phones coming out on a weekly basis that use some variant of the OS, and everyone seems to need to be able to "root" the phones, or else they can't use some of the apps (such as various wi-fi tethering programs, or a version of "wireshark" for Android). Also, it seems it's a necessary first step so hackers can get into the phone to "dump" the ROM code, analyze it, and try to make custom firmware based off it it with the required drivers for phone-specific cameras and other hardware rolled into them. I hear VERY little in the news about ANY of this, however. (I bought a new Kyocera Zio Android to use with my Cricket wireless service, and it took the better part of a week to figure out how to get it rooted, since most message forums just had a few comments from people saying "I heard someone rooted their Zio already, but now I hear their phone isn't working right anymore...." and no solid info. I finally found a version of a "universal root" script I could email to the phone and run, and got root successfully - though the script author doesn't even list the Zio on his compatible phones list. Since the Zio still only comes with Android 1.6, there's a lot of incentive for people to roll some custom 2.1 or 2.2 firmware for it .... but again, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

Re:the problem with these hacks (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519832)

Well here is a question...
Unlike other Holes to jailbreak the iPhone, would this be considered a security problem with the phone in general?
If Yes then Apple would probably fix it.
If No Apple will not probably fix the hole.

I doubt apple really cares that much about the jail broken phones. Sure apple fixes the problems as it could be part of a greater security risk. But I don't think it is apples best interests to invest money in stopping those jail breakers who have purchased their products, and willingly put their system in an unsupported state. ANd is willing to go threw some little hoops to access the hardware.

We geeks hound on the evils of apples closed model for iOS but for average joe it makes life easier. So if we geeks are willing to Jail Break the app and possibly make our $400 phone unusable more power to them. It just means that they will need to buy an other phone to hack.

 

Re:the problem with these hacks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519982)

The biggest problem with these hacks, is that hackers think it's cool to unlock them. And people think it's pretty neat they can eventually unlock it. But both are contributing to keep the platform locked as it is. At some point I would even thing that the hacks should lock the system even more, just to see how Jobs goes from there, with limited availability.

But nerds are being bought with these type of systems because they are pretty. Well, then don't complain later with locked systems like this one.

Re:the problem with these hacks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33520156)

It's LOSE, not 'loose'. I see this every fucking time I come to this site.

Seriously, goddamn.

I've never understood why they fight this... (4, Interesting)

CodePwned (1630439) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519326)

If I was a business who KNEW I'm fighting a world full of hackers I wouldn't fight them... I would help them. Most people wouldn't care, but those that I said "Hey, we've made it easy for you to do stuff... show me what you can do better and I'll pay you for it!

Apple instead wants to completely control how the users use their devices... and that just won't fly in today's world. That's like slapping a bull and kicking him in the balls. He's gonna ram you

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (1)

smash (1351) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519362)

DRM. Apple sell devices that play and protect secure DRM'd content. The fact that hacks keep coming out and left reasonably open for local user leads me to believe that Apple in reality don't care so much, but have an obligation to the big content producers to give "best effort" to keep the device secure.

That said.... I've had an iphone 3g, currently have a 3G-S. I jail-broke the 3G, had a look at some of the software on Cydia, didn't really find anything worth shit to me (plenty of novelty apps that were cool for 5-10 minutes and were then forgotten about), and didn't bother jailbreaking after a firmware update.

YMMV, but as a phone that does email and calandar, the stock firmware has all i need... and at least the code i am running is SIGNED and approved, rather than trusting some random on the interwebs that his code isn't in actual fact some trojan thats going to steal my shit.

I know that doesn't mix with the slashdot ethos of wanting to run whatever code you like on the device, but really - the stock firmware does all I want. Its an appliance like a refrigerator to me... I just want it to work, and be able to call someone and get a replacement/repair in short order if/when it fucks up.

The success of the iphone leads me to believe there are plenty of non-nerds out there with a similar viewpoint.

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (1)

KamuZ (127113) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519464)

True, if the phone does everything you want, that is perfect.

For me at least with my Android, I really need the OpenVPN client (which is not available with the stock firmware) so I rooted my phone. I didn't rooted because I can.

I am also happen to be in Japan where the mobile company selling the HTC doesn't have an app to get the SMS messages from their service (it is some kind of email/sms hybrid).

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519606)

At the risk of being modded off-topic:

I don't own an iPhone, but have rooted both of my Android smartphones. For the first one (Motorola Milestone) it was simply to be able to use MarketEnabler to be able to buy non-free apps from Android Market, as Google hasn't yet gotten paid app support for Finnish users. For the more recent phone (Samsung Galaxy S, or i9000) I wanted the same, but also wanted to apply a fix to the phones stock io-scheme, which frequently causes annoying lag in the UI. My wife on the other hand happily uses the exact same device with stock software.

It comes down to choice, and ownership. Let's say I'm a retired refrigerator repairman, I buy a fridge and the damn thing breaks down and needs fixing. Now, I totally understand that if I decide to fix it myself I'll void the warranty, but if the fridge manufacturer is actively working against me doing work on my own fridge both before and after purchase, that's where it gets controversial, and arguments ensue.

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (1)

symes (835608) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519422)

(1) Naive users will find ways to screw things up and come running for help. Some might even forget to turn the device on and still, in a state of apoplexy, come running for help. This is the way things are. (2) Naive users are content if their phone, pc, microwave or whatever, does stuff in a way broadly consistent with what they want it to do and most are completely disinterested in fiddling around with their shiny new gadget in any shape or form. Due to 1. the number of opportunities (freedom to tinker) given to users is directly related to the number of naive users screwing things up. Becasue of 2. apoplexy can be reduced by protecting gadgets from their users without the majority of users noticing, indeed, one might go as far as saying that doing so improves the user experience for the majority.

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (1)

CowFu (1897214) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519440)

Apple instead wants to completely control how the users use their devices... and that just won't fly in today's world. That's like slapping a bull and kicking him in the balls. He's gonna ram you

The average (read: non-slashdot) user doesn't care if their phone can be a portable DNS or not. Where we see 'locked-down garbage' they see 'IT PLAYS GAMES TOO!?'

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (4, Insightful)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519562)

Because content providers like to be paid for their products. If you go to one of the app crack web-sites, it's amazing how so many jailbreakers can afford to buy an iPhone, but will then go to some effort to steal 99c from an app developer.

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519654)

steal 99c from an app developer

You know, I'm not even going to comment on that.

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (2, Funny)

TheRhino (87111) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519972)

steal 99c from an app developer

You know, I'm not even going to comment on that.

Dude, you just did.

Re:I've never understood why they fight this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519738)

They steal the 30c from Apple, the developer is just collateral...

Why on earth... (2, Insightful)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519330)

would someone buy a piece of hardware that continually needs to be "jailbroken" just to be able to be used in the way they want to use it?

Of course, I say this as an owner of an LG Voyager, which doesn't allow you to load anything on it you don't pay Verizon directly for, so WTF am I talking about? (but at least I got it free.)

Some day you'll be able to own a broadband internet browsing cell phone that will only cost a few bucks a month to use, not $100 or more, and which you can load whatever the fuck you want to on.

Oh who the hell am I kidding. No there won't.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

SplatMan_DK (1035528) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519372)

For the same reason millions of people buy gaming console? "Because they satisfy one or more of your tech-needs at a price you are willing to pay"? Hell, the ability to download pr0n on-the-go and render/consume it on a "Retina display" is probably in itself worth the asking price for an iPhone4... ;-) - Jesper

Re:Why on earth... (2, Informative)

AmonTheMetalhead (1277044) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519384)

You know, you could, i don't know, buy a phone? I don't really know how it's in the States, but here in Belgium you can walk into any old store and buy a phone that comes from the manufacturer directly, no network lock-in, no crapware (other then what the manufacturer installed) and best of all, it's *yours*.

I own a HTC Legend, i don't need to jailbreak it to use it.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519792)

You know, you could, i don't know, buy a phone? I don't really know how it's in the States, but here in Belgium you can walk into any old store and buy a phone that comes from the manufacturer directly, no network lock-in, no crapware (other then what the manufacturer installed) and best of all, it's *yours*.

Yeah. Still would cost over $100 a month to use here in the states, though.

Re:Why on earth... (0, Flamebait)

Cwix (1671282) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519868)

Well.. it doesnt work like that in the states. The fact that you think it does, or even that it might, shows you dont know jack about the states.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

AmonTheMetalhead (1277044) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519904)

Well genius, i did say this "I don't really know how it's in the States"

Re:Why on earth... (0, Troll)

Cwix (1671282) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520058)

I really dont know, but I think you may be a fanboi.
I really dont know but I think we have the technology to build a moonbase
I really dont know but I think apples are really blue, and everyone has been pulling the wool over my eyes.

See.. I get to say what I think with no evidence, but I left the back door open for escape if it bites me in the ass. Politicians do it.

If you don't know, don't comment about it. Doing otherwise adds noise to the signal to noise ratio.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

AmonTheMetalhead (1277044) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520174)

Funny that, because what i said related to Belgium, not the States.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

scrib (1277042) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520146)

While this may be theoretically possible, it's not practical. We Americans have come to expect our phones to be free (or very cheap) with a contract. Of course, cell phone service plans cover the cost of the phone. That's all fine and good, but it is terribly difficult (if not impossible) to find a service plan that actually costs less if you already own a phone. If you buy the phone at the street price and then go get a service plan, you end up paying for the phone twice. Rather than pay twice, we tend to get the "free" phones that are locked in to a service provider.

Another consequence is that we suffer terribly from sticker shock if we have to replace a phone ourselves. We think a brand-new, top of the line phone should cost $100-200, not $600+.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

smash (1351) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519388)

would someone buy a piece of hardware that continually needs to be "jailbroken" just to be able to be used in the way they want to use it?

Because for a huge number of people, the device does NOT need to be jailbroken to be used in the way they want to use it. Including myself. I jailbroke my first iphone, saw there was nothing REALLY of use that I couldn't do with signed approved app-store code, and didn't bother on my 3g-s.

Am i representative of 100% of the /. community? Of course not, but in reality the nerd crowd who want to run their own code on the iphone are a tiny share of the market.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519814)

would someone buy a piece of hardware that continually needs to be "jailbroken" just to be able to be used in the way they want to use it?

Because for a huge number of people, the device does NOT need to be jailbroken to be used in the way they want to use it. Including myself. I jailbroke my first iphone, saw there was nothing REALLY of use that I couldn't do with signed approved app-store code, and didn't bother on my 3g-s.

Am i representative of 100% of the /. community? Of course not, but in reality the nerd crowd who want to run their own code on the iphone are a tiny share of the market.

Yep, but I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about those who continually buy them, go to the effort to jailbreak them, complain when Apple bricks them, etc.

Of course, some likely do it for the fun of the challenge or something.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519454)

Why on earth would someone buy a piece of hardware that continually needs to be "jailbroken" just to be able to be used in the way they want to use it?

I give you the answer to that and many other questions. The answer that you should try on any question before even thinking whether there's a better answer: "People are stupid".

Re:Why on earth... (0, Offtopic)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519570)

Kay you say: why would One buy IT etc etc..... just to be able to be used in the way they want to use it?

Im going to taje the wild shot here that people like the hardware, knows IT can do more, and find IT worthwhile to tinker with IT.

For fucking example, i fucking hate the new iPad keyboard setting because there IS no easy way to change from spanish to english, as there uses to be in the iPhone 3. This IS why i cant type IT like i want because IT fucking turns IT into bigcaps foro some fucking resano i cannot fathom. Aditionally, im writing english and continuously this shit chantes words to spanish. To change IT, i wouldhave to go to settings, touch my nose three times and take a purple dump every time i switch from commmenting on slashdot (english) or on my Facebook (spanish) ...

Argh. I fucking hate you jobs. Not everyone IS a fucktard that can only speak or grite in their own lenguaje (aaaaaaarghhhhh).

I wat a fucking gun (for fuck sake, this thing changes gun to gnu, what to wat, reason to resano, write to grite, take to taje, changes to chantes and purple dump to purple dump).

You know what? If you are an IT pro that needs to speak moré than One tongue, never the fuck ever even look at an iPad. Fuck you apple.

Re:Why on earth... (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520110)

Nah I take it back. It actually does work fine.

iOS not IOS (1)

spyked (1878060) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519334)

Not to be confused with IOS [wikipedia.org]

Re:iOS not IOS (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519348)

Not to be confused with IOS [wikipedia.org]

Thx Mr. Correction.

Re:iOS not IOS (1)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519498)

Not to be confused with IOS [wiibrew.org]

Well, that was fast. (2, Insightful)

Drakkenmensch (1255800) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519336)

For those software engineers still convinced that they can craft the perfect, unbreakable, uncrackable security, you should take two hours of your life and go rent Titanic, the movie about the "unsinkable" White Star cruise liner. There's a valuable metaphore in there for you.

Re:Well, that was fast. (1)

AmonTheMetalhead (1277044) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519394)

I can craft the perfect, unbreakable, uncrackable security, i just can't let you see it or use it or get near it.

Re:Well, that was fast. (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519468)

Wasn't Titanic the biggest and onliest land boat that sank at Fifth Avenue and 32nd?

Re:Well, that was fast. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519496)

Don't run software at full speed if there are icebergs around?

I don't like where this arms race is going... (2, Insightful)

mario_grgic (515333) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519346)

By the sound of it, Apple's next move will be to lock down the devices at the hardware level (this gives them a good excuse) and they will have no second thoughts about doing it at all. This means even more locked down "trusted computing" devices in our future. And the sad thing is the consumers won't care either way.

Re:I don't like where this arms race is going... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519402)

They have always locked devices down "at the hardware level".
That means at the boot ROM level. This is a bug apparently a bug in that boot ROM.

Re:I don't like where this arms race is going... (1)

jisatsusha (755173) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519408)

They already are locked down at the hardware level, since the 3GS was released. The device will only load a signed bootrom, the bootrom will only load a signed kernel.

Re:I don't like where this arms race is going... (0)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519412)

Citation please. Short of spreading FUD, do you have any proof of your claim or are you just talking out of your ass?

Re:I don't like where this arms race is going... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519778)

Whisper_jeff.... instead of asking for citation, RTFA.

Re:I don't like where this arms race is going... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519542)

people will still find a way.

Re:I don't like where this arms race is going... (1)

Custard Horse (1527495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519610)

By the sound of it, Apple's next move will be to lock down the devices at the hardware level (this gives them a good excuse) and they will have no second thoughts about doing it at all. This means even more locked down "trusted computing" devices in our future. And the sad thing is the consumers won't care either way.

English comprehension

"Apple is the new Microsoft and Google (Android) is the new Linux"

Is this statement sarcastic or ironic? Discuss. [2 marks]

No problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519374)

The next software update will lock up your Apple Product.

You will then be instructed to return the appliance to your local friendly MacStore, where the Steveoids will flash the firmware with new code to improve your user experience, incidentally rendering your Appliance secure, non-exploitable and virus free whilst deleting all non-approved software that is infesting the equipment.

Whats not to like there? :-)

Reminds me of the song "California Uber Alles" [wikipedia.org]

"Suede denim secret police" remind you of anyone?

The Best Solution (2)

X3J11 (791922) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519414)

The best solution to the Apple Problem is simple: do not buy their products.

Perhaps Jobs and co. will realize that many of their end users are not the mindless idiots they seem to think everyone is.

Personally I will never purchase or endorse Apple products. I am, like many Slashdotters, the family computer fixit guy, but I've made it quite clear that I won't touch anything by Apple. My computers are iTunes and Quicktime free for a reason.

This was posted from my Galaxy S Vibrant, easily rooted (I do not envy the people who have to jump through hoops just to make their devices do what they want them to).

Re:The Best Solution (4, Funny)

nOw2 (1531357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519462)

I am, like many Slashdotters, the family computer fixit guy,.

Well, that's what you get if your family doesn't use Macs.

Re:The Best Solution (1)

X3J11 (791922) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520098)

Well, that's what you get if your family doesn't use Macs.

My uncle loves his Mac. He also bought my cousin an Apple notebook. But it extends to iPhone, iPod, iPad, and every other i(diot) device.

I bought my father a Sony MP3 player rather than an iPod. He kinda gripes about it, since even Sony themselves sell more iPod accessories than accessories for his device, but once I begin extolling the "evils" of Apple... well, his eyes kinda glaze over and he eventually just walks away.

Re:The Best Solution (1)

Combatso (1793216) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519574)

exactly right, let the market decide.... shit, they already did, and the market likes the iPhone/pod/pad... oh well... what else ya got?

Re:The Best Solution (1)

X3J11 (791922) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520142)

exactly right, let the market decide.... shit, they already did, and the market likes the iPhone/pod/pad... oh well... what else ya got?

Absolutely nothing. I was hoping someone else would be a bit more insightful than I. I'm really only good at pointing out the extremely obvious, and providing anecdotal evidence supporting it. :D

Bit off topic but a wired hack? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519530)

http://redpark.com/news.html [redpark.com]
I would like a wired networking option. Would this be hard for a home hacker?

Raise the white flag, Steve? (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519564)

Steve instead of trying to forever prevent iPhone users use the same as they want, he could simply accept the fact that users want to use their phones as they want and not as he wants. I am an example of those who like the style of the iPhone, but will never buy one because I'd be "stuck" when he says that I can or can not do. It's the same thing that you buy a computer and the manufacturer say that you can only use the their operating system (and the SO sucks or does not do what you want or need).

The iPhone has the potential to be the IBM PC from the cellphones, all he need for this is the user has the freedom to use the unit in the manner he deems better.

Re:Raise the white flag, Steve? (1)

dwightk (415372) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519776)

That would make the negotiations with media and cell companies go well, I'm sure.

Re:Raise the white flag, Steve? (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519862)

hahaha, I agree. But we have a interesting dilema here... What is more important: make media and cell companies happy, or make yours cell buyers (we) happy?

Re:Raise the white flag, Steve? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519954)

The iPhone has the potential to be the IBM PC from the cellphones, all he need for this is the user has the freedom to use the unit in the manner he deems better.

Apple does one thing better than anyone else: snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

It happened in 1984 and it will happen again. Steve is a lucky enough fellow, but he's a damn slow learner.

The Admiral (1)

MooMooFarm (725996) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519612)

"called iOS 4.1 a trap"

Ackbar would be proud.

Jailbreaking is crap anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519658)

After I installed iOS 4 on my iPhone 3G and had the pain of the slowness that followed, I decided to go back to iOS 3.1.3, at the same time I decided to Jailbreak my phone and install Cydia.

All the apps that I looked at on my jailbroken phone, were buggy, poorly written, rubbish. 90% of what you could download were wallpapers and ringtones. After 2 day I went back to iOS 4 for some quality software.

I'm just upgrading to iOS 4.1 so hopefully the speed will finally return.

Re:Jailbreaking is crap anyway (2, Interesting)

nOw2 (1531357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33519854)

This is my experience of jailbreaking the around the time of 3.0-3.1. The quality of the external software was dire, and it pushed the cost of maintenance away from someone else (Apple) and onto me.
I like playing around with buggy cheap software as much as any other Linux user, but you don't want an app to crash while calling the emergency services!

Nobody "looses" anything due to jailbreaking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33519752)

4. I loose support.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

This sort of thing will continue: who's to blame? (1)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 3 years ago | (#33520136)

This sort of crap - companies locking you out of your stuff - will continue.

Do you want to know who's to blame?

It's that creepy person who is following you around - you know, the one who's always in the mirror looking at you?

Here's what needs to happen to make this stuff NOT happen:
1) Customers need to DEMAND sales contracts that PROHIBIT companies from unilaterally changing the contract after the fact.
2) Customers need to DEMAND sales contracts that PROHIBIT removal of features from devices after sale without forcing an immediate renegotiation of the sale contract, including the right of the customer to DEMAND immediate refunding of the FULL sale price.
3) Customers need to REFUSE to do business with anybody who will not abide by #1 and #2 above.
4) Voters need to DEMAND legislation to enforce #1 and #2 above, with real teeth that will really bite the companies in the wallet should they violate them.
5) Voters need to REFUSE to vote for anybody who will not enact #4.

Since the probability that a significant number of people will actually go for #3 ("Bu-Bu-But I wants my shineee!"), and the probability that voters will actually do #5 ("Bu-Bu-But if I don't vote for a lizard then the wrong lizard might get in office! Besides, he may be a lizard, but he's MY lizard!"), the probability of this actually happening is zero squared - still zero.

All you can do is to live by those rules yourself, and accept there are things you won't have.

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