Open Source VLC Media Player Coming To iPad 232
Stoobalou writes "The people behind VLC, quite probably the most useful media player available right now, have submitted an iPod version to the Apple software police. VLC — which is rightfully famous for having a go at playing just about any kind of audio or video file you care to throw at it — should appear some time next week, if it makes it through the often unfathomable approval process implemented by Apple. The Open Source Video Lan Client has been tweaked to run on the iPod by software developer Applidium."
GPL Violation? (Score:2)
I was under the impression you couldn't release the full source code of an iOS app without open-sourcing the iOS libraries.
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:4, Informative)
You can release the source code. You just can't distribute the binary, since you can't satisfy the conditions of the GPL and of the statically linked platform libraries.
Although there is an exception in the GPL to allow linking to libraries that are part of the OS, or are normally distributed with it. Things like the standard C runtime library fall under that. Maybe this applies here.
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:4, Insightful)
Heh, anyone who's been around long enough should be very aware of those exception clauses. The GPL, Emacs, and GCC all predate glibc and Linux by a lot. Back in the day when I wanted to run GPLed software, I had to run it on a SunOS (the name "Solaris" hadn't been invented yet) or Ultrix or AOS system using the vendor's C library (and often compiler). The GPL does not "infect" the whole "stack" from kernel to system libraries to universally included frameworks.
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:4, Funny)
Awesome! How many bytes of RAM did you have on your abacus?
(joke only! mad respect!)
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:5, Informative)
I have a problem, I answer rhetorical questions even though I know they are.
My abacus is can represent 13 decimal digits. The binary number required to do that is 44 bits. So my abacus is can store about 5 1/2 bytes.
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:4, Insightful)
What? You mean like how I can't release a windows app as GPL without open sourcing Windows?
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To add to what others have already mentioned, I'll point out that VLC is very specifically GPLv2, not GPLv3. Version 2 did not have the "anti TiVoization" stuff that version 3 has. The restrictions on what you can do really are different.
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Re:GPL Violation? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure you've read the developer agreement closely enough. You're allowed to do open source, explicitly. Download the latest version of the agreement right now, and look at section 3.3.20. Right there it says essentially "using FOSS is completely okay, as long as you can follow all the rules in this document and all the rules in the applicable FOSS license at the same time".
The FSF certainly says that the app store is incompatible with the GPL. They also say people should never use GPLv2, just GPLv3. The GPLv3 has an anti-TiVoization clause. Heck, read it in the FSF's own words right here:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/rms-why-gplv3.html [gnu.org]
Focus on the sixth paragraph. That makes the GPLv3 incompatible with the App Store (or with appliances like the TiVo) in ways that simply do not apply to the GPLv2.
(I researched this a bunch while kicking around the idea of taking the last version of Emacs that was under GPLv2 instead of GPLv3 and porting that to the iPad. I ultimately decided against it, but not for reasons of license compatibility.)
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:4, Interesting)
A few reasons I didn't go forward with it:
1) Even though I'm pretty sure the GPLv2 and App Store are compatible, I'm also pretty sure the FSF would raise a stink and I wouldn't have the resources to fight, and thus Apple would end up removing it from the store anyway, and
2) In order to get the full behavior I'd want with a bluetooth or USB keyboard, at this time I would have to use undocumented APIs, which would piss off Apple. An example of what I mean: I wouldn't be able to get the control keybindings to work properly without using undocumented APIs. And without correct keyboard behavior... what's the point?
3) In order to comply with the "users can't download interpreted code to the thing", I'd have to keep people from loading elisp on to it. But elisp files in Emacs aren't some special magic thing, they're just files. How could one absolutely prevent people from downloading elisp? By preventing network access and (most) file transfers. What's the point?
(In the end, #2 was the biggest reason. If the keyboard APIs open up a bit more, I'll re-evaluate.)
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The developer CAN distribute the app, but it is more convoluted: The "ad hoc" distribution profile can target up to 100 devices, and the developer needs to know the device id for all of those. In effect it is just practical inside a company or between friends. (For large companies there are other ways as well).
For an example of an OSS library for iOS, look at KissXML, which is a close-ish "API-port" of MacOS NSXML released under the Apache license if I remember correctly.
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Waiting until Apple can give feedback on it, as long as the wait is not too long, is a way to demonstrate to Apple that you're acting in good faith and attempting to comply with their policies and processes. It shows that if Apple finds a minor fault with the app and requests something be changed, they're willing to wait to incorporate those changes before letting non-compliant versions get "out into the wild".
The wait may not be necessary, but it's certainly a decent idea for someone who wants to work with Apple instead of adopting a "fight the power!" attitude. It's a show of respect. And the gesture probably does appreciably increase the odds that it'll get approved.
Re:GPL Violation? (Score:4, Interesting)
And thus we have a demonstration of that "fight the power!" attitude I mentioned.
They do support some FOSS, quite explicitly, and their agreements have been revised specifically to make this clear. There's plenty of FOSS in the app store right now, like the Wordpress and Redmine client applications.
But it's also still a curated platform, and Apple will maintain absolute and unflinching control over the end-user experience, period. There is no pretense or duplicity on this point. Anyone who's not comfortable with that fact ought to stay away from the platform.
This is not a contradiction, and it's not arbitrary "cruelty", and being willing to work within this framework isn't "servile". People who don't understand the value of a curated platform won't "get it". Even people who do understand the value of a curated platform, but who consider it a no-brainer that absolute end-user freedom must always trump that value, those people also won't "get it". But there really is plenty of room for reasonable compromise and respectful interactions, for a lot of folks who don't match those descriptions.
Quicktime? (Score:2)
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VLC for PC includes QuickTime codecs for PCs since Apple’s QuickTime codecs for PCs suck.
FTFY.
And when I say they suck, I mean they are buggy and full of security holes.
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are you implying that it'd be okay to play quicktime as long as it used the native QT libs?
i think the no-competition clause is at the app level. that is, you can't get google maps on iOS because there's already a built-in maps app. it doesn't matter if the google maps app used the underlying iOS map services, it's that the google maps app duplicates the stock map app's functionality.
i don't know enough to say if they'd consider it duplicated functionality. my first though it yes, because a large number of
Re:Quicktime? (Score:4, Insightful)
They allowed the Opera Mini browser, even though it directly competes with (and is ~5 times faster than) Apple's Safari browser. So I'm betting Apple will approve VLC too. - If they do reject it the reason will be something else - like ability to hack into iPad internals (same reason the C64emultator was rejected from iStore) rather than because of fear of competition.
offtopic:
Why isn't SeaMonkey listed on the EU's browser choice screen? I like its old Netscape style. :-|
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The answer to your offtopic question is that they include one browser from each vendor, and firefox is the offering they include form the Mozilla Foundation.
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But seamonkey is no longer part of Mozilla. They are a separate company called SeaMonkey Council, and should be allowed to submit their own product to the EU. ----- And if the argument is: "FF and SM use the same mozilla base," that is not valid either. There are two Webkit browsers on the EU ballot.
Back to topic:
I don't expect Apple to reject VLC. If they do it will make them look like hypocrites.
.
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"SeaMonkey and the SeaMonkey logo are registered trademarks of the Mozilla Foundation."
So, it's led by a different group... but is still a product of the Mozilla Foundation according to its own website.
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c64emulator was rejected because it can run interpreted code, not because of low-level access to iPad hardware.
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So what does the current C64 "looks like an emulator" app [apple.com] do? Have they re-implemented the games in Objective-C using CoreGraphics/CoreAnimation?
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The rejected version had a BASIC interpreter. You could type in code and run it in-app. That's what Apple didn't like.
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Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the parent poster. However, ... every mf time I see that answer it pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. Am I the only one that finds it completely ridiculous and an insult to everyones intelligence that Apple calls C64 Basic a real programming language in this day and age? The only possible realistic usage is for hobby purposes. WTF! What a waste!
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It's silly but they ABSOLUTELY don't want to let anyone run any piece of software at all without it going through the app store process, and I suppose that even includes hand-typed BASIC. That is, unless it's on a web page using HTML/Javascript.
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Well, it works on my Android box and I had fun trying commands like "POKE 53281,0". It's pure nostalgia. Why would they even want to deny anyone that experience?
Mmmpf, it would be interesting to see if this one worked: http://www.kingsquare.nl/jsc64 [kingsquare.nl] A JavaScript C64 emulator. I mean, what's the point. The instance you try to block something, people are going to look for ways around it. If that's too much of a hassle, they go elsewhere. I don't get the logic behind it on behalf of Apple.
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their business model includes charging at the gates of their walled garden and you don't understand why they would be unhappy with a tunnel under the wall?
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So I'm betting Apple will approve VLC too. - If they do reject it the reason will be something else - like ...
... the ability to play Flash?
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VLC can *display* Flash videos, it can't *run* Flash videos. That's still handled by Adobe software, much in the same way that Media Player Classic (the original, anyhow) doesn't decode XviD videos; it extracts the video data from the file, passes it on to the codec, lets the codec decode it, and then displays the result.
Opera Mini doesn't compete (Score:2)
"They allowed the Opera Mini browser, even though it directly competes with (and is ~5 times faster than) Apple's Safari"
No, it doesn't compete. It works in a fundamentally different manner, with a different user experience. Displaying a pre-rendered bitmap obtained from a cloud server is not the same as fetching web data and rendering the page on-device; as such, there is much it cannot do "live".
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Opera Mini is not a "normal" web browser. It renders mostly static web pages that are encoded in a custom format going through and translated and compressed by Opera's proxy servers. In functionality, it is similar to BlackBerry's standard (not the new webkit) web browser but arguably a bit "better."
It still doesn't sound like Apple would allow any real alternative web browsers through its app store.
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unless you mean better at being crap
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Now that Apple publishes their app acceptance criteria, we can look this one up:
Oh well.
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This just means VLC cannot play music form the music library. music outside the music library is no problem....
But then, if apple thinks different you still have a problem, not apple.
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iTunes allows you to copy arbitrary data to your iDevice for a specific application. I believe this is how some eBook readers get their content from PCs.
Besides, this doesn't really matter anyhow; the primary reason to use VLC is to play media that the existing iPod software won't play. If the iPod software won't play it, then iTunes won't let you upload it to the iDevice in the first place.
In other words, I couldn't put an MKV file in my media library even if Apple didn't have this restriction, for technic
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I believe it was added for the iPad, since it wouldn't be a very useful word processor if you didn't have some way of getting files onto and off of the device. The same thing was added to the iPhone.
This Apple document has some pictures of the process:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4088 [apple.com]
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> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4088 [apple.com]
It would be much more simple and civilized if you neither needed iTunes nor iWork.
You can load app-specific content on the iPad (Score:2)
Wrong. Here's how I got books into Stanza [lexcycle.com] on my iPad (which I prefer to iBooks for reading my pdfs). Sure it's sub-optimal, but if I
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Plenty of file system access, but each app lives in its own closed little world in that regard: You cannot access another app's file system with some very specific exceptions.
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But one of those exceptions is very very relevant for VLC.
An app can register with the system to be a "handler" for files of a certain type. Then when all sorts of things try to present a file of that type, they can get an "Open in..." button that tells the OS to ship a copy of the file to the app in question so it can be handled.
What's this mean?
Well, it means for example that if VLC can play Theora videos, you'd suddenly be ab
Any app has always been able to use Filesystem (Score:2)
Unless they changed this with iphone os 4 (the three letter IOS will always apply to Cisco devices in my mind regardless of capitalization) there is no file system access on the iphone.
Starting with the very first iPhone OS, applications have been able to access the file system within an application sandbox. From that first version on there have been applications that collected and held onto and even helped view files for you - very often getting things on and off the phone via WebDAV.
Starting with iOS3.2
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I dunno, it's pretty vague (most of the guidelines are).
Why say "media" if it only applies to music?
What does "access" mean? Open a stream to and then decode in your application? Or actually decode through the MediaPlayer framework (ie: no non-Apple supplied codecs).
Overall reading through those guidelines were a waste of time for me. Most of them were common sense and the rest were so vague and subjective (I think that was the intention though).
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But then, if apple thinks different you still have a problem...
I see what you did there.
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No more QuickTime Alternative/Lite for Window too. (Score:2)
http://codecs.freeforums.org/post14945.html [freeforums.org] -- "... There are no links on the site anymore to stimulate the use and development of open-source alternatives, such as VLC and ffdshow, instead of the use of proprietary software."
Custom mediaplayer on the appstore? (Score:4, Interesting)
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there's a divx/xvid player already on the store. it's shit, but it was approved
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/id384098375?mt=8 [apple.com]
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With a device like the iPad, hardware acceleration of video play back is simply not an option. It's absolutely necessary.
If you can't just "feed it to the GPU" then what you can do is going to be very limited.
I would be surprised if VLC can do much beyond offer an alternative UI to browse QT files.
Potential rejection reason (Score:2)
A primary reason for using, unto requiring, hardware video playback is power consumption. Early in the iPad's release someone noted that the reason it could handle not just an 11-hour on time, but an 11-hour video playback time, was that video was routed thru a very efficient hardware video decoder. Without doing so, battery life would be stunted to way below the near-all-day on time.
This leads to the extrapolation to and beyond the "it's absolutely necessary" observation.
From the just-released submission g
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The iPad has a pretty capable processor. It can probably handle pretty much anything SD entirely in software, possibly even some 720p content with a very well written decoder.
Regardless, the hardware support doesn't care about the container format, so there's nothing stopping VLC from playing an MKV file with hardware acceleration (for video, at least), so long as the h.264 stream in the MKV container is compliant with the decoding restrictions. I imagine that it could then use overlays to display subtitles
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No. The iPad has a rather pathetic processor for 2010.
It has a 1GHz (single core) Cortex A8. That's pretty much the fastest ARM processor shipping in a handheld device today; there were, if memory serves, a few devices running at 1.2GHz, but there aren't any devices shipping with the Cortex A9 yet. The iPad is still pretty close to the state of the art in handheld-class processors.
No it can't. Not even close.
It's a dual-issue in-order processor, with some decent vector extensions (NEON). It's got more than
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Not existing functionality (Score:2)
I was actually under the impression that u could not release a media player that is not based on the stock one at the appstore because it would be count as replacing standard functionality.
The existing player cannot play divx, therefore VLC would not be replacing existing functionality.
Apple is more concerned with wholesale replacement.
summary and article incorrect: iPod != iPad (Score:2)
In my day, we differentiated between the iPad and the iPod. Apparently in this article, the author considers them one and the same.
Seth
Re:summary and article incorrect: iPod != iPad (Score:5, Informative)
For a start: user interface guidelines (which really can make the difference between app approval and rejection), and also OS infrastructure and frameworks (the iPad can support popups/overlays that the iPhone and iPod Touch can't -- Apple added those API calls to the iPad only, because the iPad display is large enough for that sort of thing to make sense).
For another: the iPad can actually act as a USB host (though you need a physical adapter to do it, the circuitry is in there), letting you use stuff like USB keyboards (and a USB bar code scanner -- I've used one myself), and no other iOS device has the necessary hardware at this time.
It's popular to say "it's just a big iPod Touch", and there are elements of truth to that, but it's not really completely accurate.
Re:summary and article incorrect: iPod != iPad (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPad is just a big iPod touch--in the same way that a swimming pool is "just a big bathtub." People who say that tend to not realize that size alone makes totally different things possible. (Cue corny jokes in 3... 2... )
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If all you're talking about is hardware, then mostly sure, except there are several other differences as well (such as the ability to drive an external display in true high def via a VGA connector -- I'm not going to list them all, but it's not just USB).
But, if all you're talking about is hardware, you're not being reasonable, because by that reasoning there's no difference between a Windows netbook and an Ubuntu netbook. I'd call that a silly and impractical stance to take. You might be right for a narr
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For one thing, they have segregated app stores, so an iPad app won't show up for download on your iPod unless it's a hybrid app.
Woo! (Score:4, Funny)
I will send my left nut to Steve Jobs if this gets approved.
Note to Apple: If a cooler appears on your loading dock and it has the shipping info missing please open it. If it contains dry ice and a zip-lock bag holding what appears to be a bloody walnut, please expedite it to Mr. Jobs.
Thank you.
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LOL! You made day.
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AC should double check before insulting. If you consider he probably meant "You made [my] day", 'my' is an adjective. So like this south park quote: How would you like to suck my balls?
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It is for iPad... not iPod (nor iPhone). (Score:3, Informative)
RTFOA:
http://applidium.com/en/news/vlc_media_player_available_for_the_ipad
Why I think it will be rejected (Score:2)
It will contain code from various GPL projects and the holes in these could be exploited to jailbreak the phone.
Of course I could be wrong. there are alternate web browsers on the iPhone now so the "duplication" of built in features isn't a valid argument.
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Which is fixed (Score:2)
jailbreakme.com
Fixed already so that's kind of a dead point.
That exploit also relied on an exploit in Safari, so is not quite applicable to just any application.
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It isn't a typical sandbox, the sandbox is the apple API. This is why going outside the API is forbidden, and this is why once you can install arbitrary programs (cyndia) you can do just about anything.
VLC is crap. (Score:2)
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linux user? use the mplayer front end "smplayer", best by far IMHO.
until then: Oplayer (Score:2)
I really hope that Apple gives a go for VLC for the iPad...
There is another option that *has* already been approved that is not a bad choice at all for playing movies, etc. Its Oplayer from olimsoft and is available now on iTunes. One of its problems apparently is that Apple has locked down the access to the hardware accelerating decoding present in the iPad, so Oplayer has to do it via software -- slower and therefore less smooth playback -- I hope VLC doesn't have this problem but I am guessing that Apple
iPod? (Score:2)
Wish them luck but doubt it'll make it through... (Score:2)
Wish them luck but I doubt it'll make it through the approval process, especially given how A-hole-ish Apple comes off on today's '10 commandments' [engadget.com] notice. Gonna be pretty hard to ever navigate those waters without having an 'in' to help you out.
You missed something (Score:3, Informative)
The iPad is just a large iPhone that can't make calls. It is not a general purpose computer. It runs the same general kind of CPU architecture as the iPhone (ARM) and uses the same OS. So it is a cut down, embedded type of device. Apps have to come from the Apple Store and so on.
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Did you just make up a new definition to suit your bias?
I think it's fair to say the iPad has at the very least a CPU, memory and I/O device.
It very clearly can be seen that it is capable of a wide variety of uses - web browsing, ereader, computer learning software, games, music player, video player.
Exactly why do you not consider it to be a general-purpose computer?
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Much for the same reason I wouldn't call an Xbox 360 or PS3 or Wii a general purpose computer. Unless hacked/jail broken you can't install software that hasn't been approved by the company that creates the device (Sony, MS, Nintendo, Apple). Nor can you program it and install your own programs.
The one thing that separates these products from general purpose computers is the limitations imposed on the devices through DRM and their company policies.
You can say that you can get around the DRM and make them gen
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Here you go [apple.com] the way to code, run whatever you want on your iDevice. A lot of companies are doing just that, rolling their own applications and distributing it to their devices. Give the groupthink a rest and lay off the propaganda. You may not like this product, and that's ok, but it's no reason to regurgitate falsehoods.
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For the regular version sure, but there still hasn't been a 3g iPod Touch that had net access without voice service.
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From the article it seems more like a giant Iphone though, but with out the talking.
That's the iPad in a nutshell.
Shouldn't you beable to install what ever you want on a tablet computer?
Yes you should, but Steve objects to it so it doesn't happen. Plenty of reasons for and against it, but as far as I'm aware you can only install apps through the marketplace. I'd much prefer an android style system, they control the marketplace and keep it a nice and safe environment, with the option (with plenty of warnings of the risks) to install things through other means. They get their walled garden, I get a gadget I'd actually pay for.
There never seems to be a happy medi
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but according to apple it isn't a "tablet computer" it's a iPad. note the lack of "mac" in the name and inclusion of "iP" in the name. "iP*" is locked down to high heaven. "Mac*" isn't, and is a real computer. I want the "MacPad" not the "iPad".
Re:I missed something (Score:5, Funny)
You sir are a God among men. Short Men, who aren't terribly bright... more like dwarves with learning disabilities. You are a God among Drawves With Learning Disabilities. Hmm... doesn't quite roll off the tongue that way, I think we should stick with the original, but imply the meaning of the second. Right then.
But seriously, that was a troll par excellence. Your bridge must be enormous, and located in the farthest, darkest, foulest depths of the wilderness simply to accommodate your awesome power.
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OT:
I'm holding out for an Android phone with a flash *and* picture quality as good as an iPhone. The Samsung Galaxy S is the closest but no flash and no image stabilization. VLC would be a must it it existed but I'll setting for a phone/MP3/Camera for now. I'm sick of nursing multiple batteries/chargers and SD cards.
I do not care to join the growing iPhone penile colony.
Re:Android (Score:5, Funny)
OT:
I'm holding out for an Android phone with a flash *and* picture quality as good as an iPhone. The Samsung Galaxy S is the closest but no flash and no image stabilization. VLC would be a must it it existed but I'll setting for a phone/MP3/Camera for now. I'm sick of nursing multiple batteries/chargers and SD cards.
I do not care to join the growing iPhone penile colony.
Are you ejaculating that Apple has erected a large user base of which you do not want to be a member?
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penal vs. penile: Damn you spellcheck!
I do not care or have time for the "Jail-breaking Game" just to get apps that I want. (e.g. tethering anyone?!)
BTW: Motorola is out with *there* androids, too. They want to create their own MotorolAndroid penal colony.
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I knew you meant penal, but the opportunity was too good to pass up. :) Although there is quite a large penile element to all-male (such as Slashdot) penal colonies...so you might not have been too far off the mark. heh heh.
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You need grammar check, too.
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just get a point and shoot, or better yet, a DSLR if you want to take pictures. Avoid the fujifilm "fine pix Z70" like the plague. very very noisy photos.
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If operator would stop trying to control every f'n'thing things would be so much simpler.
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If Apple doesn't want people to talk about their software police, maybe they shouldn't have software police. :)
I mean, hell, not America, but I've heard there are countries where people actually feel like police are there to protect and help them. Just as Apple fans presumably feel about the policing of apps in the app store. "Police" doesn't inherently imply "police state".
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It's not the exact same thing because an Android device isn't locked down the way an iWhatever is. Your options with an Android device aren't limited solely to jailbreak or official app store.
People do bitch about Google spying on them, so it's not like the company gets a free pass.
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You are right software nazis is the correct expression
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Agree 100%. The groupthink in Apple articles is getting way out of hand with what basically amount to anti Apple flames routinely modded up to +5 insightful and the attitude starts with this kind of bullshit in the summary. I can deal with the bad jokes but not the misinformation as with the digs here. Several xvid players are already in the iPad AppStore but hey let's not let the facts get in the way of a lame story.