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Man Gets 10 Years For VoIP Hacking

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the just-think-what-that-is-in-minutes dept.

The Courts 149

angry tapir writes "A US court has sentenced a Venezuelan man to 10 years in prison for stealing and then reselling more than 10 million minutes of Internet phone service. Edwin Pena, 27, was convicted in February of masterminding a scheme to hack into more than 15 telecommunications companies and then reroute calls to their networks at no charge. He must also pay more than US$1 million in restitution, and will be deported once his sentence is served."

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149 comments

Free calls (5, Funny)

fvandrog (899507) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709702)

Free calls for all US prisoners shortly.

What's wrong with that? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709726)

It's serious crime. Just because murderers get the same sentence doesn't mean it's a bad sentence. The murderers should get more, not him less.

Re:What's wrong with that? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710090)

It's serious crime. Just because murderers get the same sentence doesn't mean it's a bad sentence. The murderers should get more, not him less.

In the view of the current legislature it comes somewhere above killing your grandmother but below burning the qur'an.

Re:What's wrong with that? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33711490)

And all of that is below file sharing copyrighted material. $1 million is restitution? That's barely 1 copyrighted song.

Re:Free calls (1)

Lordpidey (942444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709786)

Whats interesting, is that he could be on the phone for 19 straight years with the amount of service he stole.

Re:Free calls (3, Funny)

thynk (653762) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709892)

and if those were txt messages, it would hold my teen daughter over through at least 6 months.

Stupid criminal... (4, Funny)

ProdigyPuNk (614140) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709704)

Pena is the first person to be charged by U.S. authorities with VoIP hacking, but he almost avoided prosecution. He skipped bail after his arrest, and was only captured after his Mexican girlfriend turned him in in early 2009.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. NEVER, EVER let your girlfriend know what is going on if you are commiting crimes/running from the law/etc. It gets you in trouble every time.

Re:Stupid criminal... (5, Funny)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709742)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. NEVER, EVER let your girlfriend know what is going on. It gets you in trouble every time.

FTFY

Re:Stupid criminal... (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709808)

>>>NEVER, EVER let your girlfriend know what is going on. It gets you in trouble every time.

Or you could just stay single, and refuse to hang-out with domineering women. Sure compromise is good but what difference does it make whether I take the trash out "RIGHT NOW honey!" or if I wait until tomorrow morning as I'm headed-out to work? None.

But yeah..... stupid to commit a crime and then talk about it.
At least wait until the statute of limitation have run out and THEN brag about it.

Re:Stupid criminal... (2, Funny)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709894)

Sure compromise is good but what difference does it make whether I take the trash out "RIGHT NOW honey!" or if I wait until tomorrow morning as I'm headed-out to work?

The difference is if I take it out "Right Now honey!", she can clean up the mess the raccoons, stray dogs and crows make of it over night.

That gets me out of having to take it out until the next morning.

Normally my wife and I don't argue about stuff, but when she becomes overly insistent something needs to be done right away, or in a very specific way, I'll either give her the yes dear and do it my way anyway or I'll do it her way and make her deal with the consequences. Sometimes she's right and I'm wrong or she's just lucky, but she's pretty well learned if she's going to argue with me instead of doing something herself she had better have a logical argument for it. Like wise, I've learned most of the time it's not worth arguing with her.

I still wouldn't tell her if I was on the run. She'd probably turn me in for not taking the trash out when she told me to.

Re:Stupid criminal... (1)

queazocotal (915608) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709984)

And if she's wrong - well - you needed that raccoon suit anyway.

Re:Stupid criminal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33710172)

No, if she's wrong it's still your fault.

Re:Stupid criminal... (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710984)

My wife pays the price for wanting things done HER WAY. I used to do dishes. But, things weren't to her liking, so I quit doing dishes. Laundry? Ditto. You name it, if I did the chore, she had a reason to bitch and gripe. So, one by one, I just quit doing the chores. Now, she does them all, and only once or twice a month do I hear, "Well, you COULD" this or that. These days, I intentionally do this or that exactly opposite the way she would do it, LOL The really funny thing? She's had 23 years in which to train our sons the RIGHT way to do things - and failed at that too!

Re:Stupid criminal... (2, Insightful)

PoissonPilote (1274002) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711050)

This man is the true gentleman of our modern times.

Re:Stupid criminal... (1)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711820)

I agree with him. If he was doing a chore, such as dishes, and she started bitching that he wasn't doing them right. Then I'd have to go with the "then do it yourself" attitude too. I have plenty of other things to do with my time and don't need to be constantly interrupted by little chores my wife wants done, but doesn't appreciate the fact that she didn't have to do them.

As an example I'm building a set of night stands, at her request. I have all the pieces rough cut now and Saturday, after I made and helped clean up breakfast, I started planing them down for joining. No sooner had I started my wife asked me to vacuum while she did some yard work. Fine. I did the vacuuming, it only took about 20 min, and go back to the night stands. After just getting started again she comes in and tells me we need to go get groceries. So I put my planer down and go with her.

After a trip to Staples for printer ink, the wine and beer store for fresh beer kits (I brew my own), Canadian Tire, Home Depo, Kent, WalMart and a the dollar store. We went for groceries. We come back and put everything away, then I helped her chop up stuff for our spaghetti sauce, help clean up the mess, made a late lunch for us and cleaned up after that.

So by that time I was feeling pretty tired and not really up to working on the night stands anymore. I can guarantee you if she complained about anything I had done, I'd tell her she could do it herself from then on.

Fortunately for me, my wife is very grateful that I'm willing to help out. So I don't mind.

Now if she'd just stop nagging me to finish the night stands.

Re:Stupid criminal... (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711692)

>>>overly insistent something needs to be done right away, or in a very specific way.....

I would first ask her "why" it has to be done immediately. If she still keep insisting, I'd tell her I already have one boss at work and don't need another at home, and if she continues in this fashion of treating me like an idiot and/or child, then I will file divorce papers later this week.

Better to be single and happy, than married and miserable.

Re:Stupid criminal... (2, Insightful)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712046)

Better to be married, having regular sex and be happy then to be single and happy. :)

My wife is very good to me for the most part. Sometimes she does get on my nerves when she pesters me to get things done and I wish she'd spend more time doing whatever it is she's spending the time insisting I need to do, but for the most part she gives me time to do my own thing, and really is only asking/reminding me to do my part. I get distracted and often put off doing chores so I can program, draw, work on a 3D model, do some word working, etc...

My wife is my best friend, she's hot, I enjoy her company and the sex is great... And she's a massage therapist so it's not hard to forgive her when she's being a "Mother Hen". Besides pretty soon we'll have kids and she can use all that time, energy and training she spent on me to pester them instead.

Re:Stupid criminal... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709792)

Most slashdotters won't ever be in that situation. (They never commit any crimes)

Re:Stupid criminal... (1, Redundant)

bwintx (813768) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709854)

Most slashdotters won't ever be in that situation. (They never have any girlfriends.)

FTFY

Re:Stupid criminal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709856)

Why do you have so many bowling balls?

Re:Stupid criminal... (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709890)

Also never explain the plan just before you kill somebody. And if you have a secret hidaway. Pay more at people helping you with a plan and less on design.

Re:Stupid criminal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33710894)

Indeed, look how it ended for Reiser.

Oh... wait, that was different.

Interesting criminal justice system in the US (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709708)

Spend money 'punishing' him and then immediately deport him. Rehabilitation seems to have no meaning there.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Insightful)

ProdigyPuNk (614140) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709740)

There's millions of people that WANT to be in this country. Why would we want to keep those whom have already shown themselves to be criminals?

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (4, Insightful)

CrashandDie (1114135) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709782)

Then why bother spending some $800k on him in the first place if he's not wanted? So the next country gets a nice guy? Yeah. Right.

Either give him a few years and make a good citizen out of him, or kick him out of the country. Doing both is just plain stupid.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709884)

...

Either give him a few years and make a good citizen out of him. ...

Simple deportation for a large-scale theft like this is actually somewhat of a reward if the crook had enough sense to move the money he was making off his crime out of the country.

And if you think prisons "reform" crooks, I gotta wonder what color the sky is on your planet. 'Cuz where you're coming from it sure as shit ain't blue. "Rehabilitation" is based on the theory that the crook WANTS to be rehabilitated. Something that boneheaded could only come from a bunch of wackademics that live orthogonal to reality.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Insightful)

nicolas.kassis (875270) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710226)

So what you are saying is that the prison system is a failure. I agree with that. The idea of rehabilitate people isn't bad it's how the system attempts (well they don't even try) to do it that is the issue.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

wgibson (1345509) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711512)

Simple deportation for a large-scale theft like this is actually somewhat of a reward if the crook had enough sense to move the money he was making off his crime out of the country.

Top that off with a couple of years in prison, those offshore money are going to have grown thanks to a simple thing like interest rate ... So, the result: a rehabilitated person with a nice fat bank account deported ...

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (4, Insightful)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709920)

Maybe because "Come to our country, commit crimes, and simply get asked nicely to leave" isn't a sign we're interested in putting up? It's called a penal system for a reason. Rehabilitation has always been a tertiary goal behind punishment and deterrence. That doesn't mean it's not important, but you're acting like it's the entire point of a prison sentence, which it absolutely is not.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33710214)

Also, rehabilitation is not a goal of the social system in place anyway. It might be a goal of the penal system, but not the system at large. Just try to get a job if you check that box on the form that says you have been in prison for a felony. That job application goes in the circular file. The end result for anyone who tried to get rehabilitated is that they can't get any work except for being a criminal when they get out. It kind of feeds the recidivism problem.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

nicolas.kassis (875270) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710252)

It should be, if not prison is wasting our time. If after 10 years someone gets out and hasn't at least been given some sort of rehabilitation then those 10 years were wasted. That person will have no chance to work and move on. I'm not saying jail should be an easy ride, but they should be working on getting these people to be able to get a life after jail.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Insightful)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710712)

A tertiary goal is still a goal. Like I said, it not that rehabilitation isn't important it's just not the entire point of a prison sentence. The GP I'm arguing with says we should just let the criminal go free since we're not going to keep him in our society. If the only point of prison was rehabilitation this would make sense. But punishment and deterrence have always been a factor is sentencing and as far as I'm concerned it should be.

The fact that you don't want jail to be an "easy ride" makes me think that you agree, but maybe you're not comfortable admitting that we're punishing fellow human beings by taking their freedoms away and locking them in a little room. "Rehabilitation" sounds a lot more pleasant, you can sentence someone to a lot of years of that without even feeling guilty and that's why it's dangerous to think that's the central tenant of what we're doing now cause it ain't even close and never has been. Jail is serious punishment, and should not be taken lightly.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

davev2.0 (1873518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712590)

No, it is not a waste of time. For 10 years that person was prevented from committing other crimes and was imprisoned as punishment for his previous crimes. That is not a waste of time, especially YOUR time unless you are a prison guard or a prisoner.

As far as them getting "a life" after jail, they can get one. Most of them don't want to live a different life once they are on the outside. Most of them just want is to get back to being whatever they were before.

What you fail to understand is that most criminals do not believe the law should apply to them. The law is for other people, not them, so they just ignore the law until they are, in their minds unfairly, imprisoned, and just wait to get out so they can do it all over again.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33710288)

Actually I'm not so sure rehabilitation is a goal of incarceration at all in the federal penal system--see 18 U.S.C. 3582(a), "imprisonment is not an appropriate means of promoting correction and rehabilitation." This strikes me as rational, for the simple reason that incarceration does not, in fact, rehabilitate people. It was an interesting social experiment, but it is time to lay that myth to bed.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (3, Interesting)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710812)

I think that means it should never be applied to promote rehabilitation. As in, you shouldn't sentence someone to prison to rehabilitate them. This is 100% correct. If rehabilitation is your main goal you send them to counseling or some other form of actual rehab, not prison. Prison is for punishment.

That being said, however; Once an offender IS in prison to serve his punishment he should still be offered a program or help to have a chance to be rehabilitated and functional member of society once his punishment duration is served. It's just he shouldn't be sent there for that express purpose.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (3, Insightful)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709950)

If you just kick him out then you've created a whole army of criminals.

Someone needs killin', get a Mexican or Canadian across the border and have them kill them. If they gets caught they just gets sent home anyway - to sneak back across next time you need someone offed.

Foreigners should get a free try at robbing Americans blind, if they get away with it then they are rich. If they get caught they just get sent home just as if they never tried in the first place.

The prison system is not all about rehabilitation - there are at least three other components:

1. Keeping dangerous people away from society at large - clearly not an issue here since deporting does the same thing.

2. Deterring other people from doing the same thing by showing them the potential consequences - this clearly does apply here.

3. Retribution - just plain punishing the criminal for the sake of punishing them.

Different places have different emphasises on each element. Some leave some out entirely.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

nicolas.kassis (875270) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710258)

Well, I've seen deported people end up serving their sentence in their native country. Maybe that would be a better way to handle it.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

puto (533470) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710482)

And where have you seen this? Because laws aren't excactly interchangeable between countries. I sure wish I could commit some heinous crime in the states, and serve my time here in Colombia, where I get hookers, blow, cable tv, and just about anything I want. Deported people end up serving sentences for crimes they were guilty and convicvted of in their own countries when they are returned to them.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711102)

I suspect that you made that up, to be honest. Citations, or I refuse to believe it. One problem with your claim is, if some guy from South America or South Korea commits a crime in the US, SA or SK courts have no jurisdiction to enforce any kind of punishment for that crime. It would just be nuts to ask them to.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711982)

http://travel.state.gov/law/legal/treaty/treaty_1989.html [state.gov]

it's a "compassion" thing, letting someone spend a decade in prison nearer to their family instead of in a place where they have no family.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

nicolas.kassis (875270) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712906)

Thanks I didn't know where it was defined but I know it happens since many canadians have been able to get a transfer until bush took office. I know of one famous cases that has been blocked in the last 10 years. A murderer sentenced to death. The Canadian gov was asking to have spend life in prison in Canada. That was refused.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711694)

So if someone commits a crime in a foreign country, it is entirely up to his home country to pay for locking him up for something he did somewhere else? Yeah, that is pretty sound logic. I am sure that system would work out just great. Let's start by sending those Somali pirates back to Somalia. I am sure Somalia is willing to lock them up and pay for all of it.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

davev2.0 (1873518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712628)

Was that for crimes they committed in the U.S. or for crimes in their native countries? Or, was it like the U.S. sex tourism laws where if one goes to another country to have sex with a minor, one can be charged and convicted in the U.S.?

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33712564)

You forgot..
4. ????
5. Profit

Arizona is a good example of Profit.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

alen (225700) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710046)

in the US we have something called the rule of law and due process. that means if the law says you can't get kicked out just because someone thinks you did something bad, you have to be convicted after a trial

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Informative)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710532)

That's wrong - deportations usually involve hearings, but not always, and they usually don't involve convictions.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

shakah (78118) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710588)

in the US we have something called the rule of law and due process. that means if the law says you can't get kicked out just because someone thinks you did something bad, you have to be convicted after a trial.

Are you sure about that [salon.com]?

We all know about the recent case of the Canadian man who was suspected of terrorist connections, detained in New York, sent to Syria--through a rendition agreement--tortured, only to find out later it was all a case of mistaken identity and poor information...

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Insightful)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710736)

What about ... let that be a lesson to all you from overseas. Otherwise ... why woudl you not cross the border and comit a crime ?
You have nothing to worry about, they will just deport you

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711168)

Either give him a few years and make a good citizen out of him, or kick him out of the country.

Prison doesn't make "good citizens". It is, however, very effective for making better criminals.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

davev2.0 (1873518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712464)

No, doing both is not stupid. To punish him for his crime, he is confined for 10 years then he is kicked him out of the country. And, he can never enter the U.S. legally, at all, ever. He can not enter and claim asylum. He can't even enter under diplomatic immunity because he will be considered a persona non grata and will be kicked out of the country.

And, odds are he will not come out of prison a "nice guy". Prison rarely turns criminals into law abiding citizens. As a study of imprisoned criminals has shown, criminals have extremely high self-esteem. They literally feel they have done nothing wrong because they do not think the law should apply to them because they are so great.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709748)

Rehabilitation is for commies, hippies, socialists and other worthless non-capitalists.

If you use the evil r-word, you appear not to be tough on crime towards "upstanding" citizens and you get less kickbacks from prison corporations.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709828)

Spend money 'punishing' him and then immediately deport him. Rehabilitation seems to have no meaning there.

Fuck "rehabilitation".

Why does US society owe this crook any damn thing?

YOU want "rehabilitation"? Let's see what you say when a convicted but "rehabilitated" pedophile moves in next to you and your 4-year-old daughter.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710122)

Why does US society owe this crook any damn thing?

It's not about owing him anything. It's about releasing a someone who will repeat he's crimes or someone who won't. I know what I prefer.

YOU want "rehabilitation"? Let's see what you say when a convicted but "rehabilitated" pedophile moves in next to you and your 4-year-old daughter.

The pedophile will be released anyway. But I sure would prefer one that had psychological help and treatments to help prevent relapses than one who didn't.

Besides, we're talking about someone who "hacked" a VoIP system, it's not exactly a violent criminal. Keeping him among violent criminals for 10 years will certainly make him so, though.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711202)

"The pedophile will be released anyway." That's where I have a problem. An individual who poses a threat to society should never be freed. Every prisoner should be evaluated on the basis of the threat he represents. Violent prisoners and sexual predators both get special considerations - as in "No need to burden society with their presence".

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

Mister Whirly (964219) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711786)

So you are in favor of locking people up who you think may commit a crime in the future? And who gets to decide who will be likely to commit these future crimes? Maybe some weird looking pre-cogs floating in a pool, possibly rolling balls down with the guilty party's name on it? Sounds like a slippery slope to me...

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711978)

An individual who poses a threat to society should never be freed.

All individuals pose a threat to society.

The thing is, you either kill them or you burden society with an impossible number of criminals imprisoned for life. At the same time, you're losing an important number of members who can become useful citizens.

For example, based on the Texas rehabilitation programs:

Recidivism rates of offenders completing the Sex Offender Treatment Program, the Sex Offender Education Program, and the Pre-Release Therapeutic Community program were lower than the recidivism rates of offenders who were eligible for these programs but did not participate. For example, offenders who completed the Sex Offender Treatment Program had re-incarceration rates that were 61.6 percent lower than sex offenders who were eligible for but did not participate in this program. Also, 80 percent of offenders who completed this program and were later re-incarcerated were re-incarcerated for technical violations of their parole, not for arrests on new charges.

Isn't it much rational to implement a rehabilitation program that has positive results in 90%+ of cases (technical violations in parole isn't exactly re-incidence), instead of creating an unaffordable system of prisons that help no one?

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (3, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709876)

Do you think the EU would have handled it any differently? I don't. They deport people all the time.

I think the sentence is okay but excessive. 10 million minutes times 0.01 per minute (wholsesale) == $100,000 damage to the company. Ten years for stealing such a small amount of money is ridiculous, as is the extra 1 million fine on top of it. The CEOs stole 1,000,000 times that amount from US taxpayers and get no punishment.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (2, Informative)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710238)

Really without knowing where the calls were going to it's not really possible to put a figure on the damage. If it's geographic numbers in the USA your figure is probbablly about right, if it's mobiles in caller pays countries it could easilly be ten time higher and if it's premium rate numbers, satphones or shithole countries it could be much higher still.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

davev2.0 (1873518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712714)

He wasn't charged with stealing wholesale minutes. He was charged with stealing retail minutes.

When one steals something from a retailer, one is not charged using the wholesale value the retail store paid for the item. One is charged with the retail value of the item. The same goes for this case. 10 million minutes at $.10 per minute == $1,000,000 in damages to the companies. Depending on to where the calls were made, the time per minute could be considerably higher.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709926)

rehabilitation is only one aspect of justice system. There are others - making punishment as close to unavoidable as possible for instance makes future criminals think twice. This mechanism works quite well actually. Look at NK or Iran or any other great warrior for human rights etc for an example.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (0, Flamebait)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711030)

Rehabilitation is a liberal concept that has no place in reality. It's something that starry eyed young women believe in. They always think they can change a guy into something better than he is. Just goes to show how effeminate the liberals are.

Re:Interesting criminal justice system in the US (3, Insightful)

SethJohnson (112166) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711734)

Prison has many purposes in our society.

1) retribution: basically, punishment. The prisoner is paying his debt to society. This also acts as a catharsis for the prisoner himself.
2) specific deterrence: The prisoner will think twice about committing another crime.
3) general deterrence: others will think twice about committing crime when they see others being jailed for it.
4) rehabilitation: so the prisoner can change his ways. Maybe he will learn skill for the outside world so that he need not turn to crime again.
5) utilitarian: somply to keep the prisoner from committing more crimes.

In this case, 2,3, and to some extent, 5 applies.

Seth

Got what he deserved (0)

suso (153703) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709710)

Nothing really to see here. move along.

Re:Got what he deserved (3, Insightful)

CrashandDie (1114135) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709800)

Except for the fact that the US judiciary system fails, once again? Not only are they spending a few hundred thousand dollars on making him pay in prison, his sentence his heftier than what a good bunch of rapists and cold blooded murderers would get, but after the supposed rehabilitation process, they're kicking him out of the country.

Being blind doesn't mean there's nothing to see, it just means there's something wrong with the way you see things.

Re:Got what he deserved (1)

Custard Horse (1527495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709924)

Rapists are unlikely to be able to provide IT support in the 'Big House'. If he can score some free VOIP time whilst he is there, it can save a packet for the prison services.

Re:Got what he deserved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33710044)

Except for the fact that the US judiciary system fails, once again? Not only are they spending a few hundred thousand dollars on making him pay in prison, his sentence his heftier than what a good bunch of rapists and cold blooded murderers would get, but after the supposed rehabilitation process, they're kicking him out of the country.

Being blind doesn't mean there's nothing to see, it just means there's something wrong with the way you see things.

Riiight.

What's your solution?

Let him come to another country, commit crimes, then just send him away with a, "Please don't be so naughty" warning?

How's it feel being so damn blind you walk into lamp posts all the time? Or do you REALLY think you're so superior even though you haven't done anything other than throw rocks? You sure haven't proposed any other solution.

But YOU'RE so much better than us poor souls that aren't so blessed to be YOU. Oh no, we have "something wrong with the way [we] see things", but YOU - YOU'RE so much better because you're not "blind".

What an arrogant ass you are.

Re:Got what he deserved (2, Interesting)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710256)

Use electronic tagging. Help him get a job (any job, even crappy, he doesn't get to choose, obviously), subtract X% every month to make him pay the money.

Advantages:
1) Costs less money - he pays for his own bills, like food and electricity, and can pay X per month to support the tagging system
2) At least some of the money will actually be paid back
3) He won't live among violent criminals, which would probably make him one.

Why bother serving sentence? (4, Insightful)

danking (1201931) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709718)

The one thing I don't understand is why have him actually serve his sentence? Doesn't this just cost people more money in the end. It may be worth while to have him stay until he has re-payed the $1 million, assuming he even has the ability to re-pay the money but why not just deport him right away.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (1)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709746)

A bit like nursing a person back to full health, just to hang them. Of course it costs more money; but that money does go towards a lot of jobs. It's fake economy employment money.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709908)

>>>A bit like nursing a person back to full health, just to hang them..... that money does go towards a lot of jobs

You mean like smashing windows to create jobs.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (5, Insightful)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709768)

Well jail time is theoretically about rehabilitation, but in practice it's about deterrence. It wouldn't deter anyone from following in his footsteps if he was sent home without serving jail time (I think the $1m repayment part is just wishful thinking). Mind you, how do you rehabilitate someone whose crime is purely financial in a society that's largely focused on the pursuit of money, or prevent others copying him? In that case his "crime" was merely being caught, and every criminal assumes he's smarter than the last guy and won't get caught, so the effectiveness of such a sentence even as a deterent is doubtful.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709940)

Just where did you get this idea that isolation is only about rehabilitation? It has always the deterrence effect even if not always strong enough.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710430)

Just where did you get this idea that isolation is only about rehabilitation? It has always the deterrence effect even if not always strong enough.

We have had prisons for many years, yet people still commit crimes. Clearly it is not strong enough. Of course, there is an applicable saying... share our wealth with us, or we will share our poverty with you. The people running the telecoms he's stealing with are probably sleeping on a big bed of money. The average income in Mexico isn't worth digging out of the couch cushions in this country. No one should be surprised when this sort of thing occurs when some people waste more than some other people live on.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (2, Insightful)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710744)

We have had prisons for many years, yet people still commit crimes
True enough but the real and largely unanswerable questions are

1:How many more would commit crimes if there were no consequences to doing so?
2:Is locking people up the best type of consequence to use for deterrance purposes?

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (1)

men0s (1413347) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711282)

We have had prisons for many years, yet people still commit crimes. Clearly it is not strong enough.

I believe the problem lies with the actual system, not just the prison. If every crime was given an appropriate penalty (fine, jail time, community service) and was doled out swiftly, it might work. It's just like training a pet: you have to use the stick (or squirt bottle) at every moment that it should be used.

Re:Why bother serving sentence? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711998)

I think that both are the problem. There is no reason for Prisons to be rape factories (As they are in the USA) or murder factories (as they are in many, many places) or disease factories (as they are nearly everywhere.) Similarly, lots of people are imprisoned for profit; especially in the USA, where pork and privatized prisons produce profits, and in China, where forced labor produces profits. So yes, "the system" is ultimately culpable. Which is to say, every one of us.

The Geek and White Collar Crime (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710082)

The one thing I don't understand is why have him actually serve his sentence? Doesn't this just cost people more money in the end.

It may be that Slashdot has made me cynical.

But always seems to come as a surprise to the geek when one of his own is sentenced to do hard time.

Ten years is meant to hurt.

To teach a lesson.

To warn others like you not to take this path.

In the American federal system, economic and property crimes with an interstate dimension are a federal responsibility - and they are never taken lightly.

The Enron executive learned that much.

 

Headline (2, Insightful)

jra (5600) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709732)

"Man gets 10 years for felony commercial theft of service".

There. FTFY.

No hacking involved here; nothing to see; move along.

Computer Fraud and Wire Fraud, Some Hacking (5, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709774)

"Man gets 10 years for felony commercial theft of service".

I believe the actual charges were one count of computer fraud and one count of wire fraud [wikipedia.org]. Which has a pretty serious maximum punishment.

There. FTFY.

No hacking involved here; nothing to see; move along.

Well, I don't know if I'd agree there was no hacking involved. It sounds like he used someone in Washington state named Moore to run port scans on all the big routers for VoIP hardware. Moore (serving two years) would then brute force attack these routers for login information. Pena dumped Moore twenty large and then acted as a salesman. After selling the phone service, Pena would reprogram the vulnerable networks so they would accept his rogue telephone traffic. Pena didn't seem to do much hacking, Moore was apparently just a brute force hacker that preyed on stupid VoIP companies who used four number prefixes as passwords.

I think the general public considers port scanning and brute force attacks to be hacking. At least the news reports it as such.

Que PENA Amigo! (2, Interesting)

xtracto (837672) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710204)

Well "Es Una Pena" (it is a SHAME) that he committed such a crime, but it is also shameful that none of the several articles mention his real last name which is PEÑA (with an Ñ).

let's see how /. copes with that... *click preview*

It seems ok..

Re:Computer Fraud and Wire Fraud, Some Hacking (3, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711280)

I think the general public considers port scanning and brute force attacks to be hacking. At least the news reports it as such.

You wouldn't?

I mean it's the most surefire way to get into a system. May take a while but if you can set up an attack that no one notices, you've got all the time in the world to go work your job, spend time with the wife, work up that Alabi, etc etc.

People have considered much less to be hacking. Some think that when you use social engineering to discover the answer to someone's secret question to access their twitter account that it's hacking... At least a port scan is something you wouldn't know about if you didn't at least have a basic understanding of how computer networks work.

Re:Headline (1)

t0p (1154575) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709900)

Unless you refute the idea of "theft of service". His "victims" claim he cost them $1.4 million. How did they lose out? Because he sold bandwidth that they weren't even using at the time?

And this $1 million "restitution" he's supposed to pay. WTF? Sad world, people. Sad world.

Re:Headline (0, Troll)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710500)

His "victims" claim he cost them $1.4 million. How did they lose out? Because he sold bandwidth that they weren't even using at the time?

You're not using your living-room sofa for sleeping on, so I'm going to rent it out to a Mexican migrant for a few hundred a month. Hope you enjoy the company - I know I'll enjoy the cash.

Should he be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709770)

... slapped? Yes. Should he be kicked in his balls and pay back every cent that he cost 'em carriers? No doubt. But 10 Years in Prison??? There are murderers that serve a shorter sentence!

Re:Should he be... (1)

JustOK (667959) | more than 3 years ago | (#33709832)

You mean some murders get more? That's horrendous. Nothing is more serious than stealing money from a company.

Re:Should he be... (2, Interesting)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711112)

"There are murderers that serve a shorter sentence!"

Name one person who was found guilty of murder in the US who got a shorter sentence.

You know what gets me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33709946)

The man is obviously very capable and smart and for that he is getting punished instead of the telecom companies who let this happen in the first place.

Re:You know what gets me? (3, Insightful)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710146)

The man is obviously very capable and smart and for that he is getting punished instead of the telecom companies who let this happen in the first place.

He is being punished because he committed a crime, not because he's a clever geek.

Re:You know what gets me? (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 3 years ago | (#33711482)

Still, it was a clever hack. I mean come on...tip your cap just on the technical aptitude. And of course I'd never do it, but stealing from the telco is like, well, stealing from the telco.

Re:You know what gets me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33712784)

He is being punished like that because phone companies shit money and have very good lawyers. I mean he deserves punishment but doesn't 10 years seems too harsh?

sounds fair (2, Funny)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33710140)

that's only like ~30 seconds in jail for each minute of phone service he stole. At least they didn't sentence him to full price.

FBI Datacenter Raid, Telx 2323 Bryan, DALLAS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33712296)

I wonder if this is the datacenter raid guy.

Deporting? (0, Troll)

dcroxton (812365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33712918)

How inhumane, deporting the poor man! This is just like those fascists in Arizona who want to send undocumented immigrants back to Mexico.
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