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Father of Java, James Gosling Unloads

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the java-and-java dept.

Google 337

javab0y writes "The folks over at basementcoders did a podcast with James Gosling, The Father of Java, last week at a coffee shop in San Francisco during the JavaOne conference. In a raw and no-holds-barred interview, James let loose on Oracle, the Google Lawsuit, and his experience with IBM. You know its going to be good when he starts out saying, 'I eventually graduated in '83. Went to work for IBM which is, you know, is within the top 10 of my stupidest career decisions I've made.' The podcast was fully transcribed."

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Unloads his hot cum (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33728872)

Into your waiting mouth.

Re:Unloads his hot cum (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33728894)

frist post.

Unloads? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729568)

He took a dump? How's that news?

Kick in the balls! (-1, Troll)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | more than 4 years ago | (#33728884)

I actually had another sort of offer so I had actually had lunch with Andy Bechtolsheim the day he signed the papers with Scott Pinode to create Sun, and so he was actually trying to join Sun at the same time, and I would've been like employee number 4 or 5 or something

Fuuuuuuucccccck!

As employee 4 or 5, I wonder what kind of stock options he could have gotten. Meaning, could he have been a multimillionaire now?

Re:Kick in the balls! (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729092)

Ah, but if he had done that, he might have been so stuck in with managerial duties etc that Java might not have been born!

Re:Kick in the balls! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729256)

and the problem with that is?

Re:Kick in the balls! (1)

xonar (1069832) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729418)

And nothing of value was lost

A Few Typos, But The Heart and Core Is There... (5, Interesting)

potemcam (1911094) | more than 4 years ago | (#33728940)

It was an hour long interview recorded on a handheld device, and we (basementcoders & TheServerSide) tried to get the transcription out as quickly as possible so those who didn't have the time to listen to the hour long interview could at the very least read through it. There's a few typos in there that we'll fix soon enough, but putting that aside, you really get to the heart of what's driving Gosling and what he hopes for the future of Java.

Re:A Few Typos, But The Heart and Core Is There... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33728966)

Not to mention the "sine and cosign" :)

Re:A Few Typos, But The Heart and Core Is There... (1)

ctataryn (1911116) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729398)

It was an hour long interview recorded on a handheld device...

Actually it wasn't a hand held device at play, it was two condenser mics, two MBPs and Garage Band in a *very* noisy venue with a soft spoken guest :) Sorry we couldn't clean it up anymore. Near the end of the cast you can actually detect the drift (echo) between the two MBPs recordings... oops :) Can I just say one thing, and it might have just been my computer because Guillermo's was fine, but Garage Band cannot be trusted on its own for live recordings. You should always record in tandem with someone else. It crapped out on my computer twice. Once was at the end of this interview, luckily though the underlying recording was recoverable from the .band package (although the track wasn't showing up in GB, can you say... HEART ATTACK?) If anyone has any tricks to get rid of the background noise, please let us know over at The Basement Coders! I'll take this opportunity to ask if anyone has suggestions on other guests or topics please let us know on Twitter (@bcoders). Although we are primarily Java developers, we want the cast to take on a more heterogeneous vein (in fact the origins of the podcast [eps 1-5] was exactly that.

Re:A Few Typos, But The Heart and Core Is There... (1)

SethJohnson (112166) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729646)

Can I just say one thing, and it might have just been my computer because Guillermo's was fine, but Garage Band cannot be trusted on its own for live recordings

Don't use garage band to record long interviews. It's not intended for that purpose. Use Audacity [sourceforge.net] . Since you didn't even give the details of the resolution you were recording at, I'm not going to mention how that was probably the culprit in your garage band crashes. But when you use Audacity, be sure to set the recording to a low bitrate for an hour+ long spoken word interview.

Seth

Re:A Few Typos, But The Heart and Core Is There... (1)

fellitomeasopionis (1911104) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729758)

Thank god - the audio was so painful I gave up after 5 minutes. The interviewing style was also an opportunity lost for getting good info.

Java is crap (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33728964)

I hope he makes a new language called "Foam"... you know, what goes on top of a good cup of coffee?

Oh really? (2, Funny)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | more than 4 years ago | (#33728990)

This part really impressed me:

So, that particular case is one I've been drawn into over and over again for years. If we could do benchmarks on sine and cosign on intel chips compared to C. We beat C on just about everything except benchmarks on Sine and cosign. It turns out there's a small issue with the way the sine and cosign hardware is implemented in the spec on the intel platform. And we actually work around it in software. For the ranges from plus or minus five, we are close to intel speeds. You get the larger values, where the intel thing rips. So lots of folks who use math on the Java platform because we do it accurately. We put a lot of effort into it.

The thing that I'm not sure about, the part about "benchmarks" - is he also referring to performance, as in, speed?

Re:Oh really? (3, Funny)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729038)

Of course he does. Java can do sine and cosine in 12 parsecs!

Re:Oh really? (1, Funny)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729210)

but if its over $1000, sine will need someone ELSE to co-sign.

(sigh)

Re:Oh really? (3, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729692)

you went off on a tangent

Re:Oh really? (1)

The Archon V2.0 (782634) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729924)

you went off on a tangent

I see; can't have people making puns.

Re:Oh really? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729100)

Yeah, Sun bought Dakota Scientific Software back in the 90's to get their high speed math libraries. They take number crunching pretty seriously there.

Re:Java is crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729438)

@Anonymous\ Coward how about #blowjob? That's what I get after some #hotcoffee

Re:Java is crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729906)

Who the fuck wants crap foam? Cream of crap? Dumb fuck.

It's amazing anyone employs him (4, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#33728978)

I have plenty of respect for the guy's technical prowess. He was definitely also in the right place at the right time but also undoubtedly technically brilliant. And yet he runs his career like a schoolboy. You just don't go around openly rubbishing former employers like that as it makes prospective employers wary. After all you'll probably rubbish them when you're done too. I wonder how many opportunities he's missed acting that way.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729016)

I wonder how many opportunities he's missed acting that way.

Probably "opportunities" he wanted to avoid really...

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729050)

Pft, I suspect given his reputation he doesn't have much to worry about. I'm more amused at how people react with horror at someone actually being open and honest. It's one of the reasons I'm glad to be self employed. I might not make as much as if I sold my soul to the highest bidder, but at least I still have it. I see cubicle drones constantly horrified by the idea of people who aren't owned and bought. What the fuck happened to you to make you like that!

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (1)

kill-1 (36256) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729648)

Amen.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729808)

Amen. Anyone who is willing to speak their mind this candidly is to be admired. Not everyone can do this -- it doesn't generally *help* one's career. But most of us could do it MUCH more often than we allow ourselves to. Cheers to this man.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (4, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729094)

You just don't go around openly rubbishing former employers like that as it makes prospective employers wary. After all you'll probably rubbish them when you're done too. I wonder how many opportunities he's missed acting that way.

I'd like to think there are employers who are more concerned with "What can he do for us?" rather than "OMG, what will he say about US in a few years?!? He might hurt our feeeeeellliiiinnngs!!!" Employers who fret about things like that are employers I don't really want to work for.

I don't work on computers, but I find it hard to believe that in his field, you could be brilliant and find yourself unemployable because you said working for X company was a mistake.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (3, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729098)

I bet he missed none he wanted. He is at a point where he does not need to worry about that.

I find it really sad that you are saying this, true but sad that speaking the truth is so startling. One reason why I refuse to work at any big company.

Here's why they will. (5, Insightful)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729106)

1. He invented one of the most popular languages of all time.
2. This isn't your typical dime a dozen BSCS or BSEE cubical wage slave that be easily replaced.
3. Unlike the folks in #2, he can say, "I created billions of dollars worth of revenue for x,y,z"

Of course he'll get hired - even by big unimaginative corporations who like their cookie-cutter employees.

Re:Here's why they will. (5, Funny)

hondo77 (324058) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729212)

2. This isn't your typical dime a dozen BSCS or BSEE cubical wage slave that be easily replaced.

*sniff* At least my children love me...

Re:Here's why they will. (5, Funny)

mangu (126918) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729532)

2. This isn't your typical dime a dozen BSCS or BSEE cubical wage slave that be easily replaced.

*sniff* At least my children love me...

*sniff**2 I don't have children, you insensitive clod!

Re:Here's why they will. (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729582)

Ummm... Ok.

Re:Here's why they will. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729898)

2. This isn't your typical dime a dozen BSCS or BSEE cubical wage slave that be easily replaced.

*sniff* At least my children love me...

Shut up Dad and make me a sandwich. Jesus, what a tedious old fuck...

Re:Here's why they will. (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729668)

If nothing else he will get hired by CMU or some other major university. Just to have him. Maybe Google even if he did say they are a little creepy.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (5, Insightful)

HeloWorld (1014739) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729152)

Your posting is rather humorous given that you are talking about one of the major icons of the technology world. James Gosling doesn't have to worry about finding a "job". Having been a vice-president at Sun for many years I think he is well beyond needing someone to give him a job. And, having been one of the major contributors to the industry he is very well situated to criticize the industry for it's many mistakes.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (5, Funny)

blair1q (305137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729206)

Or you get picked up by companies whose CEOs also think Larry Ellison is a dick.

Meaning Gosling just reduced his range employment choices by 1.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729264)

You mean he runs his career openly and honestly, like a man.

People like you disgust me. Stop pussyfooting around everything and start expressing some solid opinions of your own.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (4, Insightful)

RichardDeVries (961583) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729326)

I don't know how to jolt myself into seeing what each moment could become. But I do know one thing: the solution doesn't involve watering down my every little idea and creative impulse for the sake of some day easing my fit into a mold. It doesn't involve tempering my life to better fit someone's expectations. It doesn't involve constantly holding back for fear of shaking things up.

Some xkcd's become clichés for a reason. This is one of them. xkcd 137 [xkcd.com] .

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729784)

Some xkcd's become clichés for a reason. This is one of them. xkcd 137 [xkcd.com] .

I see your xkcd and raise you TWO demotivators: Dreams [despair.com] and Get To Work [despair.com] .

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (3, Insightful)

RichardDeVries (961583) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729888)

Pah. I raise you ONE Edgar Allan Poe (worth at least FOUR demotivators): "They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."

xkcd just mentions well-established clichés. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729884)

You do realize that xkcd just mentions well-established clichés, right? That's exactly what that "comic" does time and time again. There's absolutely nothing original about xkcd. It just presents some well-known idea, or in some cases even just references some meme, and for some reason a lot of dipshits at sites like Slashdot, Digg and reddit somehow think it's "funny".

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (2, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729502)

Sometimes it pays to have a reputation for telling it like it is. I have been training customers when I did that and my employer didn't like it but sometimes a relationship needs to be repaired and the only way is to open the books so to speak so I get to do that.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (1)

Drishmung (458368) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729636)

I have plenty of respect for the guy's technical prowess. He was definitely also in the right place at the right time but also undoubtedly technically brilliant. And yet he runs his career like a schoolboy. You just don't go around openly rubbishing former employers like that as it makes prospective employers wary. After all you'll probably rubbish them when you're done too. I wonder how many opportunities he's missed acting that way.

Yeah, look what happened to Tony Li. Oh, wait...

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729818)

I think it's about high time someone had the guts to go on the internets and complain about a former employer.

Re:It's amazing anyone employs him (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729920)

Maybe he cares more about the truth than his net worth?

Something a lot more of us wish we had the integrity to do!

Times have changed (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33728982)

Back when I was in high school and java was new I was taking a comp sci class where we were given the names of important people in the IT industry and asked to write a report on who they were and why they're important. I googled his name on altavista.com (there was no google) and found nothing (no wikipedia at the time) except an email address at Sun. So I emailed him a list of everything I needed to know and promptly received a reply. Good luck reaching any IT big wig these days.

Re:Times have changed (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729080)

Good luck reaching any IT big wig these days.

That depends.

Steve

Sent from my iToy

Re:Times have changed (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729820)

When there is a problem, you have to fix it yourself because all the wigs are in meetings.

Re:Times have changed (1)

Smidge207 (1278042) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729090)

Unloads his hot cum (Score:-1, Troll)
by Anonymous Coward writes:

Into your waiting mouth.

Re:Times have changed (5, Funny)

hondo77 (324058) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729232)

I googled his name on altavista.com...

That's priceless.

Re:Times have changed (5, Funny)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729280)

I hear nowadays you can google stuff on bing!

Re:Times have changed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729890)

To you and the grandparent -- I SALUTE YOU! Best laughs of the day...

Re:Times have changed (2, Insightful)

codepunk (167897) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729422)

You should have been using "webcrawler" instead.

Re:Times have changed (4, Informative)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729522)

I was having a very animated conversation with him about testing at an OOPSLA a few years ago. I'd never seen a picture of him, and just thought he was another generic attendee. I heard someone walking by say something like "OMG it's James Gosling", and I got completely flustered. Stupid, but it happened. It shouldn't; he was very friendly and approachable. I have a lot of respect for him letting people know why he thinks he was dicked around by Oracle.

unloads (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729006)

Why isn't the keyword "unloads" in the tags section?

Interesting interview, shoddy proofreading (2, Interesting)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729060)

I went in expecting Gosling to have formulated this whole platform full of talking points why Oracle should do this, that, and the other, but instead I got a pretty cogent assessment which jibes with just about everything I suspected as an outsider. Oracle exists to make money and is very aggressive in its tactics: true. Android violates Sun patents: true. He even goes so far to say he would have no problem with Oracle maintaining stewardship of Java if it does right by the community (though he's a little unclear what he's referring to there).

The interviewers seem more eager to go with the whole "Oracle is the Devil" angle than Gosling. Gosling seems to more be saying Oracle has a tendency to be a bully, and who can argue with that?

On the other hand, I wish someone could have gone through the transcript and done a global search-and-replace for "intel" and "cosign," at least...

smart guy, but (-1, Offtopic)

recharged95 (782975) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729064)

Jim's story is truly a right place at the right time moment in life for him. Of course, that moment echoed throughout the world (timing) and Java became the standard.
It's not like John Kerry's story, were he trained for it, met the right people, had the support and was given his turn to run for president.

The Google lawsuit (5, Interesting)

VGR (467274) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729104)

Mr. Gosling feels the Google lawsuit is just Oracle's noticing an opportunity to squeeze money out of Google:

James Gosling: ...I'm sure they were looking at the license fees they were getting from Microsoft. Microsoft .NET just smears over a huge pile of Sun patents. When they did the .NET design, they basically cut and pasted from the Java spec. The way that they did CLR, you know they swizzled the way the instruction set went but the way this thing really operated, they exercised essentially no creativity when coming up with .NET. They've done some things since then that have been kind of good but as part of the various court cases we ended up with this rather odd patent deal with them that involved them paying us fairly tasty amounts of money. And I'm sure that the lawyers looked at the Microsoft numbers and said, yeah I want that from Google

I actually did not know, until today, that Microsoft was paying a Java patent license fee for .NET's design.

Just before he said the above, he said this, which is probably obvious to many people, but I found it poignant all the same:

James Gosling: With Oracle it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to make money.

Re:The Google lawsuit (0, Troll)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729218)

He's full of shit. Microsoft paid Sun because MS had their own Java implementation, not (from anywhere I can find) because Microsoft's CLR infringed any Java technology patents.

Re:The Google lawsuit (1)

Schnapple (262314) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729330)

Yeah something tells me if Microsoft had to pay that sort of thing for Java then Sun would probably still be around.

Re:The Google lawsuit (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729828)

He's full of shit. Microsoft paid Sun because MS had their own Java implementation, not (from anywhere I can find) because Microsoft's CLR infringed any Java technology patents.

In 2004 Microsoft and Sun settled an anti-trust and patent suit: Microsoft will pay Sun $700 million to resolve antitrust issues and $900 million to resolve patent issues, the companies said. The companies will pay royalties to use each other's technology; Microsoft is paying $350 million now...

http://news.cnet.com/Sun-settles-with-Microsoft,-announces-layoffs/2100-1014_3-5183848.html

Re:The Google lawsuit (1)

aergern (127031) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729374)

@RightSaidFred99 I would take Gosling's word over you who did some Google searches .. these agreements aren't public and you won't just find them by typing in a search engine. So it really doesn't matter what you believe .. unless you were AT Sun or AT Microsoft when this went down .. your opinion means just a little less then gum on the bottom of a shoe.

Re:The Google lawsuit (3, Interesting)

luis_a_espinal (1810296) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729632)

@RightSaidFred99 I would take Gosling's word over you who did some Google searches .. these agreements aren't public and you won't just find them by typing in a search engine. So it really doesn't matter what you believe .. unless you were AT Sun or AT Microsoft when this went down .. your opinion means just a little less then gum on the bottom of a shoe.

Yes, they are (as so any litigation that might lead to these agreements.) These are publicly traded companies. It would be extremely, extremely rare that something of such magnitude would be hidden away from public eyes. In fact, anything hidden like that would typically be considered un-kosher and suspect of investigation.

Re:The Google lawsuit (2)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729420)

With Oracle it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to make money.

That quote describes most of their software!

Podcast link? (1)

SlashDPC (931574) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729114)

Anyone have a link to the actual podcast or an mp3 recording of it?

Re:Podcast link? (2, Funny)

u17 (1730558) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729586)

I'd give you the link, but I haven't found the audio equivalent of goatse yet.

Re:Podcast link? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729878)

Anything by Yoko Ono will do.

- T

Good interview, deeper thoughts? (1)

ciurana (2603) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729120)

The interview was entertaining and somewhat insightful. I wish the interviewers would've asked more details about Gosling's current doings, what aspects of NoSQL he's working on, details about the languages, etc. Too much space was allocated to Oracle Venting. I wish the interviewers or Gosling would've devoted more time to more technical stuff and future directions.

**** out of 5 - great job, Basement Coders!

pr3d4t0r

Thanks God for transcriptions! (4, Insightful)

sootman (158191) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729134)

I skimmed the whole thing, and read a few good chunks of it, in about 5 minutes. Much better than listening to a full hour-plus of audio. Thanks to whoever did that!

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (2, Interesting)

blair1q (305137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729230)

I can't believe that's an hour of audio.

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (4, Insightful)

pavera (320634) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729340)

amen! #1 reason I've never understood podcasts... Reading is sooo much faster and more convenient.

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729524)

Except in some situations listening to audio is more convenient than reading (say, for example, when you are driving a car).

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (1)

eyenot (102141) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729588)

or fucking, because, most times, when
fucking fuckers fuck, they can't read.

relevance:
"OpenSolaris was simply a cluster-fuck for the community."
"folks that are doing stuff with openSSO, and it's really fucking cool"
"Just give me a hash table and a shitload of RAM and I'm happy."
"they were lying, duplicitous shits three years ago"
"but up at the top, they deeply, deeply don't give a shit."
"I was really pissed off at Larry's rant"
"old-fashioned operators from hell"

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (1)

eyenot (102141) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729548)

Podcasts are for commuters, workers, breastfeeders,
fuckers, and other non-hands- or eyes-free people.

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (1)

djdavetrouble (442175) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729574)

amen! #1 reason I've never understood podcasts... Reading is sooo much faster and more convenient.

not when you are driving a vehicle during your daily commute. Everyone that I know listens to podcasts during
drive / commuting time.

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729796)

Somehow, this sounds better than it reads: "Uh uh, uh, oh god! fuck my pussy with your big black dick, oh god, uh, i'm gonna cum, fuck me fuck me fuck me!"

Re:Thanks God for transcriptions! (1)

Timmmm (636430) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729550)

I agree, although they could have omitted all the "you know"'s and so on...

I look foward to listening to it in full! (2, Interesting)

Seakip18 (1106315) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729184)

I browsed through the interview and hope I can listen to the podcast soon.

He says some neat things:

James Gosling: Various Oracle employees have been instructed not to wear them. I've noticed this is a great tshirt(the "Free Duke" shirt) to wear in big crowds around here because the seas just parts, 'cuz people are like, 'I don't want to be near that.' Which I find really funny. And the whole free java thing is kind of a weird history with me because Sun from day zero is an open source company and this whole weirdness that we have about open source was not a weirdness open source but a weirdness about the actors and the games in the drama.

James Gosling: Absolutely. I have this love hate thing with Google these days. They can get kind of creepy.

Moderator: Do you use the browser plug ins that prevent the ads and block and analytic stuff?

James Gosling: No. I mean, I sometimes do.

Some...well...things that I don't think I can get behind:

In the enterprise space, things like Cassandra and Voldemort and some of the NoSQL database. I've never got it when it comes to SQL databases. It's like, why? Just give me a hash table and a shitload of RAM and I'm happy. And then you do something to deal with failures. And you look at the way things like the NoSQL movement is. It's various flavors of large scale distributed hash tables and trying to deal with massive scale and massive replication, and you can't back up the database because no tape farm is big enough. And you find scale and reliability can fit together at the same time

and some interesting:

James Gosling: Well that's right, [they](Oracle) didn't own Java, but it just points out, and I don't know how to say it other than to say they were lying, duplicitous shits three years ago and by their turnaround, they're basically admitting that. Oracle is kind of a funny company because they take glory in that. They have no issues with being categorized that way. Some of their PR people might get a little uncomfortable with it, but up at the top, they deeply, deeply don't give a shit.

I'm still not sure how to regard Oracle right now, but I'm comfortable with the idea that Java needs a permanent and legal separate existence from Oracle.

Re:I look foward to listening to it in full! (2, Insightful)

blair1q (305137) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729348)

Java needs a permanent and legal separate existence from Oracle.

Won't happen, for reasons Gosling pointed out: it's too big and too widely deployed to be maintained without huge test expense for even the smallest code changes.

Which is kind of interesting, because all along I've kind of had the supposition that one of the things Sun had done with Java is to streamline that so that the propagation of the effects of changes was no longer unpredictable. I guess they didn't. In fact it sounds like the opposite happened and it's just another unmanageable bowl of spaghetti.

Time to sell it to someone who thinks it's a cash-cow and start over on the thing that will obsolete it.

Re:I look foward to listening to it in full! (1)

WeatherGod (1726770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729770)

Normally, I would agree with that sentiment, but then there is LibreOffice coming from OpenOffice.org... so, who knows?

Re:I look foward to listening to it in full! (1)

kill-1 (36256) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729790)

I've never got it when it comes to SQL databases. It's like, why? Just give me a hash table and a shitload of RAM and I'm happy.

This is a stupid statement if I ever read one. No wonder he left Oracle.

as an ex-sun guy (3, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729194)

I have to laugh at his comments about oracle. and the oracle view of 'The Tee Shirt' (tm).

speaking of tee shirts, while at sun there was a 'java anniversary party' and mr java himself was there. some cute photos from the event, a few years back (when sun was still kind of fun to be at):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/472512518_4f70840cd2_z.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/121342959_449ed7dea0_z.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/202/472513502_682f02afc2_z.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/121338473_07823a9da0_z.jpg [flickr.com]

RIP sun. we all miss you.

and, duke, please turn out the lights when you leave, okay?

A great orator is worth a billion dictionaries (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729238)

Language is critical. Without it, we could not convey our thoughts. But the important thing is the thought, not the language.

Re:A great orator is worth a billion dictionaries (1)

u17 (1730558) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729622)

Can language exist without thought?

Can thought exist without language?

Doesn't sound like something to be discussed whilst sober.

I owe this man alot (5, Funny)

codepunk (167897) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729402)

Without James I would only have to maintain half the servers I do today and would likely be out of a job.

Re:I owe this man alot (2, Interesting)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729630)

On the other hand, without him I wouldn't have to try to juggle the fun of "Application x runs only on Java version y, Application xx runs only on Java version z, and Java y and Java z don't get along too well."

I was angry about this as I started typing, but then I realized that maybe this keeps me employed as well. Damn. :(

Not what I thought when I read the title (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729492)

I thought Gosling died. Am I the only one that read the title that way?

Re:Not what I thought when I read the title (1)

DCstewieG (824956) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729576)

I think that would have to be "garbage collected."

Re:Not what I thought when I read the title (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729666)

run method exits. object will be returned to the heap at some unspecified time.

Re:Not what I thought when I read the title (2, Interesting)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729902)

I thought he either defecated or ejaculated.

Thank god he's gone from Oracle (3, Insightful)

melted (227442) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729626)

He needs to focus less on freedom, and more on achieving some semblance of feature parity with .NET. Microsoft is so far ahead with C# and CLR it's not even funny anymore. Dear James, why the fuck can't I new up an array of fully specialized generic objects in Java in year 2010? I mean, this is just bizarre crap. And this guy just keeps going around and telling everyone how much of a genius he is.

Re:Thank god he's gone from Oracle (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729688)

why the fuck can't I new up an array of fully specialized generic objects

I can't imagine wanting to do that. Arrays were invented because the infrastructure didn't exist for better data structures. Ever heard of Collections?

Re:Thank god he's gone from Oracle (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729804)

In one line you've shown everything thats wrong with computing today.

Re:Thank god he's gone from Oracle (2, Insightful)

codepunk (167897) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729844)

I am far from a Java fan boy but not oblivious to the fact that it is a much easier task to create a language and vm designed for a single platform.

Aren't all his career moves in top 10 worst? (2, Insightful)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729672)

Go to school or not. Go to graduate school or not. Go to IBM or not. Go to Sun or not. Stay at Oracle or not.

It looks like he's had under 10 career moves total, so by definition aren't all of them in the top 10 worst? (And also all are in the top 10 best).

Jahva Javva? (1)

LBArrettAnderson (655246) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729682)

Javva? (that's 2 "v"s, not a w) Is that how you pronounce Java in Canadia?

Re:Jahva Javva? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33729764)

(and no one tell me that since the creator is Canadan that that's the correct way to pronounce it. Java was a word before Java)

What I want to know is... (2, Funny)

ilikejam (762039) | more than 4 years ago | (#33729856)

Did he stop everyone from working while he cleaned out his desk?

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