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I'll never buy a kindle (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33758848)

My iPad so rocks!

Joy, another app store... (0, Troll)

mlts (1038732) | more than 2 years ago | (#33758852)

Just what Android needs, more fragmentation.

The Amazon store brings some walled garden stuff, but my fear is that cell phone makers and providers will end up locking phones only to Amazon's store. Of course, they can be rooted so one could use the Google App Store.

In any case, this isn't a boon for developers, mainly because they now have at least two places they must keep their apps updated in.

Re:Joy, another app store... (5, Interesting)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#33758960)

> Just what Android needs, more fragmentation.

Yes. Because another STORE represents "fragmentation".

I can't believe anyone modded you as insightful. You're retarded. Another store just means another source of stuff to buy.

It's like the Cydia store but you don't have to hack your device first.

Yeah. That's what Frys, Best Buy, CompUSA, Tiger Direct, MicroCenter, NewEgg, Target and Walmart mean.... "fragmentation".

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759062)

Where are my mod points when I need them?

More app stores is a good thing. Each user can use one or several stores, depending on the use they have to their devices.

The average /. user already have mikandi's app store installed alongside google's.

Re:Joy, another app store... (2, Insightful)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759428)

It would be especially good if all the apps were thoroughly tested. With all the stories lately about Android apps
grabbing/using personal data it might be nice to have an app store where they tell you exactly what data it uses.
Even things like how much processor & memory it uses while active would be useful info. Or how well it runs on
different screen sizes. I have no idea if any of the stores already do this as my 11 year old nokia phone doesnt
have apps.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759652)

I have no idea if any of the stores already do this as my 11 year old nokia phone doesnt
have apps.

So you have no idea what your talking about? Good for you!! Wade right in their with your opinions. Dont let the fact that your ignorance will probably lead you into making a stupid comment. I mean Luddites have a fair and balanced view of modern technology, right?

Re:Joy, another app store... (2, Interesting)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760190)

I'm a luddite because my phone does everything I need it to do (work as a phone)?
When I want a camera I use a camera. When I need internet access I use a PC.
I have nothing against technology, I just dont see the point in paying for something
I wont use.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759492)

this assumes amazon won't lock things to it's store.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759798)

Yes and no. Competition between stores is good, of course. But the OP expressed fears that manufacturers and networks might lock their devices to Amazon's store (in exchange for a piece of the pie, no doubt), and I think those fears are entirely justified.

Of course most of us will just root our phones and go elsewhere, but that's not something your average user is likely to do. And I'm sure Motorola would love to prevent it completely.

Re:Joy, another app store... (3, Insightful)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759150)

In the phone world you rarely have "choice" and as the parent mentioned, most carriers will lock you into something you don't want. For example, Verizon/Samsung have decided that Bing should be the search engine of choice on their smart phones. Not exactly a big deal, except there is absolutely NO way to change it over to Google, if you so desire. I can see the same thing here. Amazon/Verizon ink a deal, and all VZ phones now ship with the default Amazon market, and Google Market is no where to be found. If you actually had a choice, then I don't have a big problem for allowing multiple markets, search engines, etc. Sure, it brings confusion, but in this case, the "choice" isn't yours...it's the handset and service provider making that choice for you.

Desperate Apple Fanboys (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759206)

The hardcore Apple fanboys who site around in social media sites are in desperation mode now that Google has dumped Apple into third place in the cellphone market.

Parroting the word 'fragmentation' is the only this the pathetic clowns seem to be able to come up with.

What is Android up to now? 80 million phones a year? Yeah, Apple fanboys, parroting 'fragmentation' is really hurting Android...

Re:Desperate Apple Fanboys (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759540)

And desperate Fandroids jerk off to reports of market share, sales numbers, and the notion that their phone is "open source" while ignoring the fact that the app selection in general for Android sucks and the existing marketplace UIs appear to have been designed by an illiterate monkey with ADD.

Re:Desperate Apple Fanboys (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759716)

"app selection in general for Android sucks and the existing marketplace UIs appear to have been designed by an illiterate monkey with ADD."

LOL. And cellphone consumers find Apple's shit cellphone hardware and software worse than that...

Cry you fucking faggot. Cry.

Google is kicking the shit out your crappy little hipster cellphone.

Re:Desperate Apple Fanboys (1)

insufflate10mg (1711356) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759784)

Have U ever seen the Android Marketplace? It consists of 2 tabs ("Apps" & "Games") and a searchbox. Then you click a button and the app installs. Also, what app does iPhone have that Android doesn't? I dare you to name one.

Re:Desperate Apple Fanboys (1)

hey (83763) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760958)

Does it have iTunes ;)

Re:Desperate Apple Fanboys (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759924)

What, like the App selection for the /iP.*?/ is any better?

I bought an iPod Touch earlier this year, and ended up returning it because I could barely get it to do anything useful (there was a subnet calculator app I kind of liked, but it wasn't worth paying $300 for something to replace a pen and a bar napkin) that even my piece of crap Palm Pro phone couldn't. Even after jailbreaking, it didn't seem like there was much to it except shovelware games that reminded me of early DS and Wii games (using touch/waggle in new and obnoxious ways) and marketing apps. An app to directly link to a shitty big-chain pizza corp with watery sauce and cardboard crust? Sign me up!

Re:Joy, another app store... (3, Insightful)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759276)

Yeah. That's what Frys, Best Buy, CompUSA, Tiger Direct, MicroCenter, NewEgg, Target and Walmart mean.... "fragmentation".

Yes, they do mean fragmentation. In fact, fragmentation is exactly what it is. Fragmentation of electronics sales into separate and competing entities. The mistake is believing fragmentation is automatically bad instead of a driving force to present the best, safest and cheapest option.

Re:Joy, another app store... (3, Interesting)

mlts (1038732) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759284)

Brick and mortar stores are not relevant to this discussion.

Say I have an app I am actively developing and maintaining. One central distribution mechanism means that I can focus my time on writing and updating it, upload the .apk file, and go on my merry way. I eyeball the reviews, and make sure to take heed of any constructive critiques for the next revision of the app.

With multiple app stores, each of which has different rules, each of which are present or absent on different phones, in order to have my app available to as many users, I have to jump through every store's hoops. I also have to pay each store's ticket to entry. Google's store is very reasonable, just pay your $25 and you can play. However, with other stores in the mix, they can set prices any way they feel like. They can also set many restrictive conditions.

Want to know where the shit will really hit the fan? When stores demand exclusivity. If store "A" demands I only can use them, then any Android device that ships with store "B" and only store "B" on their device, my app is locked out of that market. This definitely will fragment Android far worse than it is now.

Don't forget that as of now, one can sideload and install via ADB on almost all devices. However, both of those abilities can easily be removed in a new model of phone forcing people to either get their apps from the store or do without.

Of course, there is the slippery slope: What happens if cellular carriers want to hop in this pool? More stores are not better in this choice, because I'm sure some carriers would only allow access to their specific store and no others.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759412)

Brick and mortar stores are not relevant to this discussion.

Why? You'd need a chain with stores in enough areas but other than your arguments apply to people producing any other product having the joy of dealing with only one company, what's special about app developers?

And if there is some reason to exempt brick and mortar stores specially then how about web sites? Should I only be able to buy anything online through one supplier?

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

insufflate10mg (1711356) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759846)

The point is that it is NOT like "brick-and-mortar" stores because no one in the real world is limiting you to only shopping at one particular store. Concerning Android, users and developers alike are worried that the providers will lock you into one store.

You are 100% right -- more stores are better, but only if you are not limited to any one store, and you know how the providers are with vendor lock-in.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759988)

So... if I've got it right then "fragmentation" of stores is a problem because if we have more than one then phone providers may limit us to only one, so to prevent that we should only have one? Or something?

Re:Joy, another app store... (0)

Ukab the Great (87152) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759620)

Don't forget that as of now, one can sideload and install via ADB on almost all devices.

Android phones support Apple Desktop Bus [wikipedia.org] ? How cool is that!

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

markhahn (122033) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759758)

at Frys, you tend to buy brands that you recognize. why? because the brand engenders a certain amount of trust. the difference with app stores is that we're treating the store as the brand, in part because app suppliers don't have much in the way of brand/trust identities of their own.

which is why Amazon opening an Android app store makes sense, and is not much of a problem for Google. Google may well be able to come up with some competitive advantage, but otherwise, they'll probably just get out of that business once Amazon (or others) have a decent ecosystem going. Sure, iTunes is a profit center for Apple, but that's largely a result of being a monoculture/walled-garden/etc.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759982)

At this point, "app stores" have really done nothing that warrants assigning individual developers any sort of trust based on their association with a particular store.

They really are only electronic equivalents of B&M stores that might perhaps give a little extra control to the owner of the store.

They do squat for "trust".

The idea that something in the Apple App Store is necessarily more trustworthy due to it's association with Apple and their so-called vetting process is nonsense. It's time to stop drinking the cool-aid and believing the propaganda being happily propagated by the so-called news media.

I would much rather be able to go straight to the developer and get a DEB package from them then futz around with Apple.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

hey (83763) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760216)

One issue with multiple app stores is... multiple notification of upgrades. I have received this as I have apps of 3 stores on my phone.

Jedidiah: Read what Bruce Perens said here (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33760248)

"I can't believe anyone modded you as insightful." - by jedidiah (1196) on Friday October 01, @10:52AM (#33758960) Homepage

You're right to NOT believe it, because he may have "modded himself up", via alternate registered user accounts he/she has is all, & yes, it is VERY EASY to do.

Sound unreal? Guess again!

Fact is, others who are "in the know" online, & about this kind of thing in fact, have spoken of it before here as well (besides myself)!

Folks like Mr. Bruce Perens, & in this quote of his here for you to read & be aware of:

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192 [slashdot.org]

PERTINTENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed."

AND

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33092398 [slashdot.org]

"I have been offered the online-perception-management services I'm talking about while managing at HP and Sourcelabs. If you are not aware of companys concern for their online perception and what they do about it, and won't take my word for it, there isn't much point in arguing about it with you"

---

Yes, they changed alright: So much so, that "concerned parties" began keeping "flocks of their on-the-payroll faithful" around on largely travelled forums (like this one) to up mod that which is in their favor, and to downmod that which is NOT in their favor. There are even FIRMS that do that FOR THEM, for hire... pitiful! Like they're fooling anyone with any common-sense (not).

APK

P.S.=> So Jedediah? As was said to Neo in the film "The Matrix"?? "Welcome... to the REAL world!", & don't mind the smell kiddo - that's just the neo-con/neo-cheater wannabe-clever scumbags that infest this place and all others that think they are "clever" using multiple reg'd accounts here & elsewhere to pull their utter b.s. online...

Pitiful is what it is, and others ask me WHY I don't keep a "registered luser" account here? See above - says MOST of all that needs saying about that much! apk

Re:Joy, another app store... (2, Insightful)

delinear (991444) | more than 2 years ago | (#33758988)

I don't really see the problem - isn't this one of the much touted advantages of Android, that if you don't like their store you can set up your own? If a provider locks the phone to a specific store, I'll not buy that phone from that provider, it's not like Android isn't on a huge variety of new handsets, if I wanted to be locked in, there's an App provider for that. I'm sure Amazon's aim will be, as usual, to try and stamp out the competition and become the sole gatekeeper - good look doing that when the competition is Google and they control the OS, but if it means a little competition to improve the usability of the respective stores, and perhaps a little more effort in helping the diamonds shine amongst the dross, then it's probably a good thing.

Re:Joy, another app store... (0, Offtopic)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759004)

In any case, this isn't a boon for developers, mainly because they now have at least two places they must keep their apps updated in.

Didn't you hear? Competition's always good in the market place of ideas!

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

DavidRawling (864446) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759036)

Wait a minute ... Amazon gets to set the price? So you want to sell at $3 and they can decide you can only sell at $0.49? Or at $10? WTF am I missing here - that sounds pretty ridiculous (and no, I've been around long enough that I'm not going to sully this post by actually RTFA). I can't see it being of much use in avoiding the race to the bottom ... and I can't see any other reason at first glance.

Re:Joy, another app store... (3, Insightful)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759218)

Wait a minute ... Amazon gets to set the price? So you want to sell at $3 and they can decide you can only sell at $0.49? Or at $10? WTF am I missing here

It's a shop. You must use shops some times. The shop owner typically decides the selling price. The price you are willing to see at to Amazon is up to you. The price Amazon is willing to pay you is up to Amazon. The price Amazon is willing to sell to the public at is decided by Amazon. The price the public is willing to pay is decided by the public. Amazon can have loss leaders or 200% mark ups. It's a shop.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759280)

The price you are willing to sll at to Amazon is up to you. The price Amazon is willing to pay you is up to Amazon. The price Amazon is willing to sell to the public at is decided by Amazon. The price the public is willing to pay is decided by the public.

And obviously that means that if you won't sell for the amount Amazon offers you then you don't sell it to them and if the public aren't willing to buy for the amount Amazon is offering it at then Amazon don't get a sale.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

pgmrdlm (1642279) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760108)

6 Android Websites You Should Check Out

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/6-android-websites-you-should-check-out/ [makeuseof.com]

For this reason, it’s important to find a few Android websites that can keep you up to date on your Android device. Recently, I wrote an article about 5 Awesome Android Applications That Could Make Life Easier, and now I’d like to tell you which Android websites I’ve found useful in my experience as an Android user.

That is a list 6 sites that sell android apps that do not include amazon. If you don't want to sell your apps on amazon, there are more than one alternative of where you can sell your app.

Re:Joy, another app store... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759222)

Welcome to the real world (capitalism)? Competition is everywhere. Since forever.
Go ask a farmer what he would like to charge for his apples, and then ask a consumer how much they're willing to spend on them.

It baffles me that you're this surprised/ stunned.

Re:Joy, another app store... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33760182)

But if the royalties are "equal to the greater of (i) 70% of the purchase price or (ii) 20% of the List Price", you'll never get less than your "wholesale" of 20% of the list price, and if they raise the price, you'll get more.

You want to sell at $3 ($0.60 wholesale). If they sell at $3, they'll actually give you $2.10. If they sell at $0.49, they'll give you your $0.60 and eat the 11-cent loss per sale. If they sell at $10, you'll get a whopping $7 per sale.

Basically, this sounds just like a normal store (where they pay a wholesale price and can sell at whatever price point they want, barring should-be-illegal-again MAP restrictions), except in this case they'll actually pay you more if they raise the price and make a killing on something. (Admittedly, that seems unlikely, as Amazon's not known for such behavior.)

Re:Joy, another app store... (5, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759038)

Just what Android needs, more fragmentation.

Yea its terrible ... like having more than one shop in a mall or something

Fragmentation - in Amazon's dreams (3, Insightful)

Concern (819622) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759104)

Yes, because when more stores open up in your town, it's not economic growth and development, it's "fragmentation."

The funniest part of this comment is that Amazon is only going to be likely to gain much relevance for their own app store in their dreams. They're going to have reach, of course, but a job of convincing developers to accept their terms and come into their marketplace when they are already in _the_ marketplace used by tens of millions (soon to be hundreds of millions) of Android users. They will have to spend big to get out of the zone of irrelevancy. It sounds like a miscalculation born of arrogance to me.

Re:Fragmentation - in Amazon's dreams (1)

hannson (1369413) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759568)

Why not be on both? There's no reason why Google should have a monopoly for selling Android applications.

Re:Fragmentation - in Amazon's dreams (1)

rhsanborn (773855) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759788)

Except that Amazon has one item to leverage, bundling. I know my Droid came with the Amazon MP3 market place on the home screen by default. SOME developers will go there. Maybe not all, maybe not the best, but that app store will be populated. Add in a few deals with some bigger publishers, maybe a special kick back for some of the more popular apps. Suddenly the average consumer doesn't know the difference between the Android Marketplace and the thing called app store on their desktop that was there from day one.

Amazon == Trusted (1)

northerner (651751) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760408)

They will have to spend big to get out of the zone of irrelevancy. It sounds like a miscalculation born of arrogance to me.

A few posts have made the point that Amazon is better at presenting relevant content than Google when it comes to showing a catalog of things you are likely to buy.

Another reason that I think Amazon will succeed in this venture is that they have a large customer base that trusts them. A study was done that found that Amazon.com is the most trusted brand in U.S.A.

Here is a link to a blog discussing it: "Study: Amazon.com is most trusted brand in U.S." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10457727-62.html [cnet.com]

Note: Some brands that did well in other countries were Nokia, Toyota, Colgate, Pampers. Microsoft was #1 most trusted in the Czeck Republic.

Re:Fragmentation - in Amazon's dreams (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33761296)

"It sounds like a miscalculation born of arrogance to me."

Selling books online with tons of local bookstores was arrogance. Supplying tools and hardware with the links of building depots, Home Depot, and Lowes was arrogance. Creating a kitchen store, grocery store, when all those are usual local, what an annoying, stupid thing to do. Creating a video store, mp3 store, pure arrogance given the option.

Man, Amazon is so damn arrogant. Wait, what's that? Buckets of money? Buyers spending?

We'll see if they succeed. Even if they fail, it's not a major loss to them. It's a new market, something they can go after. Good for them.

You...well you seem to be looking at this mostly from the developers perspective. From the user and buyer perspective, Amazon, even if in name only, is a more trusted source. Even if it makes no sense, to you (see Apple's crap), people usually go for brand names these days for tech stuff.

It's not the developers. It's the buyers they'll attract. Amazon understands this. They did this with ebooks, even pissing up much of the electronic book market by using DRM and not accepting certain common file standards. They like SO failed at that.

Plus, I think this is a little retaliation for Apple being dicks and having higher book prices and going after their ebook market (probably getting back at Amazon going after their music market). Personally, I like Amazon entering this area, if for only reason it gives SOME validity to the Android marketplace, even if it it's just a perception.

Re:Joy, another app store... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759124)

Also, you shouldn't be able to get news from anywhere except the BBC. Down with fragmentation. Choice is hard.

And you should only be able to run Windows as your OS.

Not that Windows' wide array of software should be a benefit because there should only be one programme that does any given task.

And hardware support should be easy because there should be only one PC design and you should only be able to buy the them in one shop becuase I can't stand the thought of multiple shops, they're just fragmenting like crazy, please please make it stop.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

Josh04 (1596071) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759538)

I wouldn't want news from anywhere but the BBC, tbh.

For Wi-Fi-only devices (5, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759214)

I live in a country where Android phones are either hideously overpriced ($600 for a Galaxy S? Tigger please.) or bundled with a service plan offering more voice minutes in a month than I'll use in a year. So I'm in the market for an Android PDA or Android PMP like those made by Archos, not another phone with another phone bill. An Apple fan might describe it as "Android pod touch". But I'm not aware of one Android device without a cellular radio that Google has officially approved for use with its store. So developers who don't feel like competing with established apps on Google's store can target Android devices that lack 3G and sell on AppsLib and this Amazon store in addition to Google's store.

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759358)

Preach on Comrade!

Down with capitalist fragmentation!

Re:Joy, another app store... (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759916)

Just what Android needs, more fragmentation.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Fragmentation is where Android itself splits up. Like having one version of Android on a Verizon phone, and something different on an AT&T phone, and they may not even work with the same apps.

That's bad for Android as an OS, because then consumers aren't sure what will or won't work on their phone. It says "Android" on the phone... But it isn't actually Android, it's Verizon's flavor of Android.

This is another app store. It isn't going to fragment the Android platform, it's just going to give you another place to buy your Android apps.

ok appl... amazon... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33758864)

where have we seen this before?

yay. Literal market fragmentation. (0, Troll)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#33758908)

I hope this comes to fruition, so nice of Amazon to prove us Apple fanboys right.

John Gruber's going to have a field day with this.

Google has everything to lose with this move by Amazon. Android's ecosystem is going to get murkier and weirder.

Do you suppose Amazon's going to put the in-phone app available via the Android Marketplace?

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (3, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759094)

Yeah, Android will be fucked. I mean the ability to buy apps from a variety of sources completely and utterly destroyed the PC and Mac ecosystems. If only they'd been able to limit PCs and Macs to single stores to buy apps from, then nowadays we wouldn't be using the internet and having to work on...

Oh wait, nevermind.

BTW, I had no idea who John Gruber is, so I had to Google him. For anyone else wondering, apparently he's a blogger from Philadelphia, who graduated from Drexel University, and worked for Bare Bones software. Big names there, obviously a person that matters in the technology world.

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759288)

PC and Mac apps worked on any PC and Mac as long as the hardware met the requirements. Dell/HP didn't do too much customization of the OS except for including drivers and wallpaper/BIOS for branding

with android the manufacturer first makes a deal with a carrier and then customizes the OS for that phone based on the carrier's wishes. AT&T is already locking their android phones out of some app stores. i bet in the future we'll see android phones won't run apps just because it's from a store the carrier doesn't approve of

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759470)

i bet in the future we'll see android phones won't run apps just because it's from a store the carrier doesn't approve of

So your argument, essentially, is that maybe someday we might see an example of a single vendor (out of many) doing what Apple does to every single device it sells?

Even if they ALL did it, you'd still only be at the level of 'same' rather than 'worse'.

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (2, Informative)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759812)

PC and Mac apps worked on any PC and Mac as long as the hardware met the requirements. Dell/HP didn't do too much customization of the OS except for including drivers and wallpaper/BIOS for branding

Back in the days of DOS before Win95 took over the PC world, when the PC market was growing, while what you say was largely true as written, you have to remember that there was a lot less abstraction of hardware, and that the diversity (in the PC world) of hardware was at least as significant as the diversity of customized Android OS software and hardware combined (and, that there were quite a few versions of MS/PC-DOS, and toward the end of the period a few clones, floating around simultaneously as OS software), and yet the PC software market did quite well (and, once the Mac was around, better than the market for Mac software despite the latters more uniform target platform.)

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (2, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759826)

If the store has apps that people want, there will be a pressure for the carriers not to lock it out, or their phones sales will suffer.

Oh Noes! Some iFanboys Are Gonna Blog About This! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759106)

Poor liddle Apple Hipster Douchebags. Sitting around crying over their Starbucks about Google's Android beating the shit out of their overhyped and defective cellphones.

Gotta love the anger and bitterness of Apple being dumped into third place in cellphone sales from its pathetic fantards.

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (1)

lowrydr310 (830514) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759194)

Android's ecosystem is going to get murkier and weirder.

I not your uneducated consumer; I know a thing or two about the Android platform, yet it's still murky as hell to me with all the different flavors of UI by different manufacturers that don't all look or smell the same!

It's no different than all the various linux distributions available; sure they're all Linux under the hood and can be customized to your liking, but many have different UIs and different ways of doing things which scares your typical consumer away, preventing it from gaining any significant market share.

I wonder if this Amazon App Store application will behave like the Amazon MP3 store application that came pre-installed on my phone; constantly starts on its own and consumes resources for no apparent reason even though I never use it, has full network permissions, can read my phone state and identity, can modify my SD card contents, and has access to my system tools (change Wi-Fi state, prevent phone from sleeping), and worst of all can't be uninstalled (Thank You, Sprint and HTC!).

Re:yay. Literal market fragmentation. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759282)

Do you suppose Amazon's going to put the in-phone app available via the Android Marketplace?

Amazon doesn't need to unless it is specifically targeting the Backflip and other Android phones sold by AT&T, which hide the "Unknown sources" checkbox that enables APK installation.

Quality Apps (1)

JW CS (1593833) | more than 2 years ago | (#33758924)

I like this idea if they can implement it well. I always find reviews on Amazon useful when purchasing other products. This could be a helpful tool for finding some really good applications. It all depends on the implementation and if they can convince good developers to see their apps there.

The Android Market sucks (5, Insightful)

watanabe (27967) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759032)

The issue here is not just that Amazon might want its own app store, a reasonable desire. The issue is that the current Android market really sucks. Google does not have good expertise in the curation methods that an appstore needs; right now, you have two options browsing the appstore: you can look at top, all-time sales. Games that have been out for two years top these charts, not surprisingly.

Or, you can look at the raw feed of 'newest'. In games, that would be 64 underwear puzzle games, three things in Japanese, and a tech demo of rotating lines, controlled by some sensor or other.

Google's traditional approach to this sort of problem is search, but search does not work well here, and there's significant market opportunity. Hence, Amazon.

Re:The Android Market sucks (2, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759126)

Ultimately, Google needs to offer up a proper way of search their appstore via a computer and select apps to install that way. They've done a fair job with the handheld, but it's just not that easy to make a screen that small and still have enough room for a proper store.

Re:The Android Market sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759490)

Ultimately, Google needs to offer up a proper way of search their appstore via a computer and select apps to install that way

Oh man! It looks like Google is screwed then.

If Google only had some experience in search...

Re:The Android Market sucks (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33760818)

Look up AppBrain.
It does this pretty well.

So what will Amazon be offering that's different? (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759456)

I'm asking because their terms aren't likely to attract too many top-end developers. Seriously, would you want Amazon to set prices for your product, and tack in DRM?

That last bit is uglier than the rest - even if you're a big fan of DRM, the fact that Amazon can literally modify your binaries at will (read: potentially break something) is enough by itself to drive off any developer with more than two working neurons.

Now if Amazon drops those two parts, they'd stand half a chance, IMHO.

Re:So what will Amazon be offering that's differen (2, Insightful)

Trufagus (1803250) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759622)

I'm hoping they will offer Amazon products and media.

I'm not really interested in buying Android apps from them but I'll happily buy their books, music, movies, and other merchandise. And when I do I don't want some other company taking a cut or interfering in the process.

And though I doubt that I would be buying apps from them rather then the Google Market, I wouldn't rule it out.

Re:The Android Market sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759918)

It's funny, the first thing I did was ask my friends what apps they installed.
It would be nice to have a feature to see what my friends in my contact list recommend to me.

There's nothing wrong with this (1)

tkrotchko (124118) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760162)

I love this model because if Amazon wants to offer something more appealing for creators and consumers, they'll sell more "stuff" and people will be happier. And if this is popular more merchants will set up something similar.

This is a good thing. Everybody getting more choices, everybody will make more money.

Re:The Android Market sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33760852)

Why do you think Amazon's search will be any better? Look at the Kindle online store. It sucks just as bad.

A Netflix-inspired recommendation system (not Amazon's -- theirs is terrible) would be appreciated, along with most popular in the last X days.

Why would amazon do this? (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759046)

Doesn't make sense.. They have no phone, no tablet/pad/handheld device. Their ebook reader doesn't even run android. If anything, Barnes and Noble would be a better match to merge an ebook/app store within for some apps.. but amazon? Thats just fragmentation for fragmentation sake

Re:Why would amazon do this? (1)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#33761134)

That's like saying that Amazon doesn't make computers or game consoles so why do they sell video games? They can make money on software sales if their store offers things that the Android app store does not; things like content filters, price filters, a decent popularity ranking system, maybe even lower prices.

Fragmentation? No. (1)

grub (11606) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759048)


I don't think it's fragmentation but this nugget:
one in which they, not the developers, will set the price and decide which apps to feature
is a deal killer. No way would anyone I know work on an app and not be able to set the price. That's basically Amazon telling the developer what his/her time is worth.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (2, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759148)

We'll see about that. If Amazon provides a market place where more copies are sold or it's easier for people to find the particular app, the developers may go for it anyways.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

webdog314 (960286) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759966)

Is that really how you think people will look for apps they need, by going to the Amazon App store? I know no one who works this way. When I need an app, I hit Google. Any developer worth anything is going to have a product page on the web. They might have a link to Amazon (or wherever) to actually buy the app, but it's just a place to put in my credit card. Why restrict your search to one storefront?

The fact that Amazon wants to set the price is insane. Even Apple isn't that stupid. Imagine the uproar in the publishing industry if Amazon decided paper book prices. There's been huge fallout even over the pricing of e-books, which I personally still feel was a mistake by the industry, especially Apple. All products are not created equal, and shouldn't be priced that way just because they happen to be digital.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 2 years ago | (#33760438)

Imagine the uproar in the publishing industry if Amazon decided paper book prices.

Maybe I'm missing something weird about the American book market, but surely Amazon DO set the price for paper books in their store. Obviously they don't set the price of books in other people's stores, but that's not what's going to happen here either.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (0)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759314)

No way would anyone I know work on an app and not be able to set the price.

Then you know nobody in the mainstream video game industry. Almost all Wii disc games cost 50 USD. Almost all Xbox 360 and PS3 disc games cost 60 USD.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

grub (11606) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759376)

Those are developed by huge gaming houses who pay their employees directly, not one-person shops making fart apps.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759334)

More importantly... doesn't this come under price fixing?

Re:Fragmentation? No. (2, Informative)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759648)

No, this is nothing like price fixing. Price fixing is when the majority of sellers of a given product to a certain market agree to set the same price, to artificially control supply and demand.

It could be price fixing if Amazon and Google where fixing the price between themselves and sell the apps for the same price, regardless of the app developers' wishes.

(this is horizontal price fixing. There is also vertical, when the producer colludes with the retailers. This also doesn't happen here, and besides it isn't illegal according to the US Supreme Court).

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

tooyoung (853621) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759662)

No, this has nothing to do with price fixing. Price fixing would be if Amazon conspired with Apple and the Android market place to set industry prices for smart phone applications.

Think of this in terms of other industry: Barnes and Noble could freely decide that every book that they sell will cost $50, despite the fact that those books come from a number of different authors. This would not be price fixing, and I imagine that many customers seeking cheaper books would go to stores like Amazon, etc.

However, if Barnes and Noble got together with Amazon and several other major book sellers, and determined that they would all sell all books for $50, that would be price fixing.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (2, Funny)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759430)

It's a travesty that stores get to set the prices for anything that they sell! And they get to choose what they sell! In the name of freedom we must force stores to sell what we want them to sell and at the price we want to sell it at!

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

grub (11606) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759632)


The stores set the prices based on demand and what they pay for the item. In this case, it sounds like Amazon is setting the price from the get-go with no developer input.

On Apple's AppStore you could submit a $999.99 Fart App. They would likely reject it but remember the "I Am Rich" app that did nothing for $1k?

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759482)

Deal killer? I'm not sure. I think the idea is to make the Amazon store a "premium shop" featuring a small number of hand-picked apps of high quality. If Amazon set fair and realistic prices, this can be very attractive for a developer. Especially since you can always sell your app in the regular store if it doesn't pass muster at Amazon. And if it does pass, your app at least won't be rubbing shoulders with dozens of fart apps and hundreds of variations of air traffic/shipyard/train/whatever controller games.

Re:Fragmentation? No. (1)

nametaken (610866) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759714)

Some will not, but it depends on how they handle this. If you submit your terribly complex application and Amazon says it's worth $.99, I expect you'll have the option not to list it. If they come anywhere close to your estimated selling price I'd guess you'd be pleased to broaden your reach... especially if Amazons service becomes popular.

I don't think this discourages development for the platform, so long as you can list the product with Google either way. Exclusivity could prove to be the real deal breaker here.

The programmers (1)

Movi (1005625) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759078)

Except, what developer would willingly agree to hand over his product to this kind of a store?
Is having an app that's featured in a walled garden store where other people have control over your app a desirable thing nowadays?

In other words : are there programmers who would like to take in the ass from amazon?

Re:The programmers (0, Flamebait)

zombieChan51 (1862028) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759192)

Quite abit of Programmers take it in the ass by a lot of corporations, they don't care, as long as they get paid.

Re:The programmers (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759686)

If Amazon could sell more copies of each app, it could compensate the loss per individual sale.

Re:The programmers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759872)

Except, what developer would willingly agree to hand over his product to this kind of a store?

Um... me? The Google app store sucks. I'm confident in the app I've developed and I welcome the exposure that it might receive in an Amazon run store.

fart apps? (0, Troll)

snookerhog (1835110) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759118)

is this where I will be able to buy the 200 fart apps? [slashdot.org]

What's really needed... (1)

bhunachchicken (834243) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759252)

(disclaimer - I currently don't own an Android device, and don't have access to the store, so this may already exist)

... is a community-centric app evaluation system, so that rogue apps can be flagged up and possibly pulled from the store. We keep hearing about how Android apps are apparently harvesting data and shipping it off to some website or another. Or accessing people's phonebooks.

(yes, yes - I know that people are warned about these things, but a lot of end users are dumb and blinding press "YES" when they see a dialog box)

So, what would help is for members of the community to report malicious apps, and allow installing users to see before hand that it has been reported as misbehaving.

Of course, this won't help people who install APKs directly off the net, but then you only have yourself to blame. Example: BFTSSQuiz 0.65.apk [battlefort...system.com] DON'T INSTALL THIS APP - IT'S PRE-ALPHA! I wonder how many people'll download it, anyway...

Re:What's really needed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759794)

That's more or less already there. You can flag any app listing as inappropriate, and they'll get pulled if enough complaints roll in. There's also a comments thread attached to every listing and you can check that for people's opinions.

mod 0p (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759370)

So when they start excluding submitted apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759410)

I assume we'll have the same shrill cries on here of "WALLED GARDEN!! RESTRICTIONS ARE BAD!! WHAR FREEDOM AMAZON WHE!!" and Amazon will be added to The Official List Of Evil Companies That Hate Software And Freedom And Puppies.

Or is it only bad when Apple does it?

Re:So when they start excluding submitted apps (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759550)

I assume we'll have the same shrill cries on here of "WALLED GARDEN!! RESTRICTIONS ARE BAD!! WHAR FREEDOM AMAZON WHE!!" and Amazon will be added to The Official List Of Evil Companies That Hate Software And Freedom And Puppies.

Or is it only bad when Apple does it?

So you're not seeing the difference between:

A) A vendor offers a single device that uses one tightly-controlled source of applications
and
B) Devices from various vendors are offered that can access a variety of sources of applications (and one of them is tightly-controlled)

Seek help.

bi2nat3h (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33759438)

Google == goggle (1)

wiresquire (457486) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759450)

Google has really had their goggles (or blinders) on about the whole app market.

While they've managed to create a lot of market momentum behind what is fundamentally a hardware platform, they have been unable to tie that to their software based platform.

Is this because of their 'open' stance? Perhaps, but that's only going to be able to be discerned over time.

As hardware has become 'commodotized', so has software, and so too will the 'great' web services like google.

It's only a matter of time.

A more important question (1)

Ukab the Great (87152) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759458)

Is Amazon building it's own Android phone?

Re:A more important question (1)

markhahn (122033) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759776)

or android tablet, ebook reader...

competitive advantage (1)

markhahn (122033) | more than 2 years ago | (#33759934)

Amazon is already a major e-retailer, so they have some advantage there. I think the real question is whether they'll add value to the user/customer's app-selection process. yes, Amazon already has some you-may-also-like, and user reviews, but can Google do a better job of mining such data to produce value? Amazon doesn't seem to take this as seriously as Netflicks, for instance. can Google obtain some advantage from, for instance, crash reporting? perhaps they're in a better position to profile, for instance, how an app treats your personal data...

Security (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33760078)

As long as security is better than on the Marketplace (almost impossible not to be) I'm all for it. I'd rather not use Marketplace ever again.

Amazon At War With Book Pubs... Now With App Devs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#33760746)

Amazon has been at war with book publishers [gizmodo.com] over who sets book prices. With Amazon's policy of a $9.99 e-Book price for a new title, publishers face erosion of their print book prices and volumes.

So...will app developers be their next target of price control?

Amazon Building Its Own Android App Market? (3, Insightful)

SpectreBlofeld (886224) | more than 2 years ago | (#33761132)

I don't know. Are they? You tell us...

How about we post the news article if they announce one? I really hate these speculative 'question' posts.

New Android phone to have six buttons?
Display manufacturers to use synthetic sapphire glass?
Tommy Lee Jones to star in new motion picture?

OT: Why can't we link to actual sources? (2, Insightful)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 2 years ago | (#33761400)

Why can't submissions provide actual sources? In this particular case, we got a link to a blog - which linked to another blog - which linked to a techcrunch article - which linked to another techcrunch article - which linked to a dev mailing list. Would it have been so hard to provide the direct link to at least the techcrunch article which provided far more details than the random blog analysis of the same?
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