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Iran Arrests Alleged Spies Over Stuxnet Worm

Soulskill posted about 4 years ago | from the feeding-the-propaganda-machine dept.

Security 261

kaptink writes "Reports surfacing from Iran claim 'nuclear spies' have been arrested over the infection at the Busheher nuclear station, which opened in August. According to Intelligence Minister Heydar Moslehi, because Stuxnet is so sophisticated, cost so much to write and uses two stolen security certificates, he believes only a national intelligence agency or a huge private company could have devised it, calling them 'enemies' spy services."

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The country that cried wolf (4, Insightful)

istartedi (132515) | about 4 years ago | (#33770870)

They may be right this time, but who will believe them? For those living under a rock, I'm referring to the 3 American hikers who allegedly strayed over the border from Kurdish Iraq, two of which are still being held as spies.

Re:The country that cried wolf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33770950)

I see your point. I don't know what they allege that those they have arrested have done, but no self-respecting, actual spy would be caught doing something so conspicuous as hanging out on a ledge as the title implies.

How come Iran can do it when others can't? (4, Funny)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 years ago | (#33771086)

See the thing is Iran is so efficient on on catching crooks (whether they are actually guilty of the crime the are charged with or not) while the rest of the world seems to lag way behind.

Why?

Re:The country that cried wolf (4, Funny)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 4 years ago | (#33771140)

I don't know what they allege that those they have arrested have done

They're probably charged with 'Breathing Iranian Air without Governmental Permission' which usually results in a sentence that prevents them from becoming repeat offenders.

Re:The country that cried wolf (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | about 4 years ago | (#33771540)

Any bets on a couple of kid hackers being uncovered as the real authors after a few more weeks of news reports about how it was all spies?
Sure there was some inside info needed but I can imagine some overly nationalist hacker in america, israel or elsewhere chipping away at something like this for years and gathering the needed info.

Re:The country that cried wolf (1)

arivanov (12034) | about 4 years ago | (#33771590)

Show me that kid hacker which has access to a SCADA system and can pinch a valid digital certificate.

I have a special deal for you if you can show said kid and the kid. There are quite a few places where I can submit your resume for a nice commission.

Re:The country that cried wolf (1)

Svartalf (2997) | about 4 years ago | (#33771626)

You'd be surprised at how good the Script Kiddies have become. While I agree that it's unlikely that there's a couple of them at the bottom of this, mainly because there's no payoff for them to be doing it- it definitely is not outside of the realm of reality for the reasons you state.

Re:The country that cried wolf (1)

BlueStrat (756137) | about 4 years ago | (#33771660)

Any bets on a couple of kid hackers being uncovered as the real authors after a few more weeks of news reports about how it was all spies?

"Sources close to Iranian intelligence services reported today that they allegedly suspect two elite Zionist hacker-spies, codenamed "Trinity" and "Neo", one of which reportedly compromised the US IRS d-base, basing this suspicion on intelligence it said was gathered from Western sources. Also reportedly wanted for interrogation is someone that they can only identify by the codename "Morpheus". Further details as facts emerge."

Strat

Re:The country that cried wolf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771050)

I'm really surprised any listens to the crazy people over there anymore. Anything Akmadinijuk* says is ignored like an annoying wife on game night, as in I know he is talking but I don't hear a word. *I don't care how it's spelled or if he even still exists.
 
Just ignore the trolls and they will eventually get UMadBro and their heads will explode.

Re:They cried wolf because ... (2, Informative)

BoRegardless (721219) | about 4 years ago | (#33771152)

They arrested "The Usual Suspects".

Re:The country that cried wolf (0, Offtopic)

ptrace (1078855) | about 4 years ago | (#33771200)

But I do care... "For all intensive purposes" should be "For all intents and purposes"

"For all intensive purposes" (2, Funny)

drainbramage (588291) | about 4 years ago | (#33771320)

That woosh noise you herd mint something.

Re:The country that cried wolf (1)

Deadfyre_Deadsoul (1193759) | about 4 years ago | (#33771202)

they obviously arrested the people whose security credentials were used in the worm. they are probably already in a desert gulag, getting a good tan.

Re:The country that cried wolf (-1, Redundant)

ptrace (1078855) | about 4 years ago | (#33771220)

I guess you don't care that "For all intensive purposes" should be "For all intents and purposes" either.

Re:The country that cried wolf (-1, Flamebait)

HungryHobo (1314109) | about 4 years ago | (#33771498)

wow.
you really are a bit slow on the uptake aren't you.
It's intentional and it makes a good point.

Re:The country that cried wolf (-1, Flamebait)

rainmouse (1784278) | about 4 years ago | (#33771330)

They may be right this time, but who will believe them? For those living under a rock, I'm referring to the 3 American hikers who allegedly strayed over the border from Kurdish Iraq, two of which are still being held as spies.

Let me reuse your argument in a similar way.

The US may be right about the innocence of the 3 hikers, but who will believe them? For those living under a rock I'm referring to the fact that the US still wont even properly investigate into who really shot their own president 47 years ago!

Re:The country that cried wolf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771506)

The US may be right about the innocence of the 3 hikers, but who will believe them? For those living under a rock I'm referring to the fact that the US still wont even properly investigate into who really shot their own president 47 years ago!

This is why no one should take /. seriously. It's twitter for paranoiacs.

Re:The country that cried wolf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771616)

Your level of assumption is outstanding.

Re:The country that cried wolf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771524)

Then again, after the next solar eclipse they quickly accuse Israel and the US for it and arrest another set of foreign spies, clearly responsible for the outrage. Also, foreign spies are accused of undermining the foreign policy of Iran by implanting random defamatory sentences into the speeches of the president. All they want is love, but the insidious foreign spies are not letting them have it.

Re:The country that cried wolf (2, Insightful)

7-Vodka (195504) | about 4 years ago | (#33771620)

Yeah! because the chances of young, professional looking Americans, hiking on the border of Iraq and Iran and being CIA agents is PRETTY INSIGNIFICANT. Hell, my friends and I all wanted to take a hike through a warzone and 'accidentally' get lost into a neighbouring country but the travel agent said that trip was SOLD OUT.
/sarcasm

Just the actions, manerisms and behavior of the woman since she was freed already has CIA written all over them. Put that together with the propaganda and where they were and I'd start wagering money on it.

Oh wait, I'm sorry, did you actually have proof they weren't CIA?

Re:The country that cried wolf (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771686)

Do you have proof that they WERE CIA?

Jesus, your arrogance is astounding. The burden is not on an alleged to prove that they are not in fact . The burden is on the assholes pointing fingers.

Bah! (4, Insightful)

Greyfox (87712) | about 4 years ago | (#33770872)

If it were targeted at Iran's nuclear sites by a hostile foreign government, they'd have been a lot more stealthy about it and waited until the thing was in operation to trigger a catastrophic melt-down. I'm sure that the reason it's most prevalent in Iran is due to lax security practices and not some conspiracy against them.

Re:Bah! (3, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | about 4 years ago | (#33770894)

A catastrophic meltdown benefits nobody. It wouldn't be sufficient to wipe out all of Iran's military capabilities and it would likely cause them to reflexively strike Israel. Not good.

Re:Bah! (4, Interesting)

plover (150551) | about 4 years ago | (#33771060)

A catastrophic meltdown benefits nobody. It wouldn't be sufficient to wipe out all of Iran's military capabilities and it would likely cause them to reflexively strike Israel. Not good.

It would destroy their plant, their centrifuges, and their current ability to enrich uranium, and would give them a giant, expensive mess to clean up. They know if their plant were to be destroyed they would be seen internationally as stupid buffoons incapable of safely executing nuclear tasks, when their goal is to be seen as a mature modern nuclear power who should be taken seriously.

A meltdown would likely cost them ten years to recover from, and the current regime may be too fragile to survive it.

Iran is not a completely crazy country. Sure, the leadership is run by corrupt figures who use religious zealotry to organize the poor in order to remain in power, but that's no different than many Western countries. But many Iranians are middle class kinds of people, not the raving lunatics who want to nuke the rest of the world like they portray on TV. It's certainly possible that if the current leaders were to stumble on the national stage that the poor might see them for who they are, and violently remove them from power.

Re:Bah! (4, Funny)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 4 years ago | (#33771160)

I'm glad that this worm didn't cause a meltdown. I have 'Homer leaves a donut in the reactor core' in the Meltdown Pool and would hate to lose my $10 to some governmental conspiracy that isn't even playing.

Re:Bah! (2, Insightful)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | about 4 years ago | (#33771164)

Sure, the leadership is run by corrupt figures who use religious zealotry to organize the poor in order to remain in power, but that's no different than many Western countries.

The Republicans are doing a hell of a job - just look at how they took over the TEA Party. The religious nuts are pushing out the libertarians and are ruining something that had a lot of potential.

Re:Bah! (4, Informative)

Beelzebud (1361137) | about 4 years ago | (#33771368)

Follow the money.

The tea party has never been a grass roots org. Launched by a stock exchange trader on CNBC throwing a fit, and funded by Dick Armey's Freedom Works; the tea party has always been the Republican Party.

Re:Bah! (1)

santax (1541065) | about 4 years ago | (#33771226)

Common sense and thinking for yourself instead of only believing what the media and our Generals Staf wants us to 'know'. I love it. Let me get that Karma up for you a bit ;)

Re:Bah! (1)

linzeal (197905) | about 4 years ago | (#33771230)

They have multiple plants, this benefits only the extremists in Israel by giving the hawks something to say they tried "non-violent methods" and for Iran to say that Israel is trying to destroys it currently peaceful nuclear program. There is no way that Obama would do something to provoke the one country that like a domino falling would make the current Iraq and Afghanistan debacle into a regional conflict.

Re:Bah! (1)

Cyberax (705495) | about 4 years ago | (#33771278)

"It would destroy their plant, their centrifuges, and their current ability to enrich uranium"

How? Do you seriously think that they are located next to the reactor?

Re:Bah! (1)

X.25 (255792) | about 4 years ago | (#33771530)

Iran is not a completely crazy country. Sure, the leadership is run by corrupt figures who use religious zealotry to organize the poor in order to remain in power, but that's no different than many Western countries. But many Iranians are middle class kinds of people, not the raving lunatics who want to nuke the rest of the world like they portray on TV. It's certainly possible that if the current leaders were to stumble on the national stage that the poor might see them for who they are, and violently remove them from power.

Wow. This sounds like you live in Iran, since you know so much.

You do live in Iran, don't you?

I mean, you've at least been to Iran once, haven't you?

Ah, I see.

Re:Bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771542)

Sure, the leadership is run by corrupt figures who use religious zealotry to organize the poor in order to remain in power, but that's no different than many Western countries.

Right, the poor population of the country is ignorant and believe the mental conditioning handed to them.

It's certainly possible that if the current leaders were to stumble on the national stage that the poor might see them for who they are, and violently remove them from power.

Right, the poor population of the country is intelligent and will see through the mental conditioning handed to them.
or... More likely, the poor population will continue to be ignorant, but will be outraged by lack of excellence.

Re:Bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771130)

What if provoking such hostilities was your objective? Why do you assume that would benefit "nobody?"

Re:Bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33770902)

Well if you want to think of it that way, perhaps a hostile foreign government was purposefully not stealthy about it so as to defer suspicion.

strangely like the princess bride. (1)

eleuthero (812560) | about 4 years ago | (#33771222)

This reminds me of the scene ending with Vizzini calling Wesley a fool and then falling over dead. Perhaps the same will happen with Iran.

Re:Bah! (0)

LordVader717 (888547) | about 4 years ago | (#33771070)

Nuclear reactors are built with multiple redundancy to the point that failure is inconceivable.

Such redundancy is less likely with an enrichment facility, and some speculate that it has already caused explosions and massive failure.

Re:Bah! (5, Funny)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 4 years ago | (#33771166)

Nuclear reactors are built with multiple redundancy to the point that failure is inconceivable.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771478)

Thank you for the laugh. Was the Princess Bride reference intentional?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes

Re:Bah! (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | about 4 years ago | (#33771628)

Thank you for the laugh. Was the Princess Bride reference intentional?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes

This being Slashdot, I can pretty much guarantee that it was. And it was perfectly executed.

Re:Bah! (4, Interesting)

klingens (147173) | about 4 years ago | (#33771196)

This newsarticle is pure BS. The attack didn't target Bushehr: when Stuxnet became public, Bushehr wasn't even online yet. Stuxnet targeted the iraniane Uranium enrichment facilities in Natanz and presumable other, secret, places. Those all use Siemens PLCs too and the code in Stuxnet for the PLCs is actually geared to break those centrifugues. It's also a much more sensible target IT wise: all the centrifuges are controlled by the same PLCs, the same programs running on each PLC for each centrifuge.
Corroberating this is that in early 2009 shortly after Stuxnet was known, Iran publically suffered a big setback in nuclear enrichment and the government official in charge of the nuclear program was let go.
So Stuxnet was successful in its mission to disrupt the nuclear program and heads rolled in Iran while some unspecified intelligence agencies got high fives all around.

What make you think this is even possible ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771456)

Bottom line is that it is extremly difficult to leave no trace whatsoever. Very costly to develop. And Israel is known to sometimes to dirty operation which leave traces but works. Methink you are attributing much too much hability to the various governement in question. True there is no good evidence Israel did it, but your "argument by incredulity" is really stupid. For fuck sake, we are speaking of the country which used british pasport to make its dirty work and was CAUGHT red handed on it.

It needed in country personnel? WTF (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33770874)

I haven't heard anyone arguing against it being written by a foreign nation or major company, but I wonder why they arrested spies for it though. I thought the whole point of releasing the worm in the wild was to be able to infect from anywhere, with no need to directly get into the facilities, or even Iraq itself for that matter.

Re:It needed in country personnel? WTF (0, Redundant)

odies (1869886) | about 4 years ago | (#33770892)

They still needed inside information about the control systems because the worm was highly targeted just to infect those.

Re:It needed in country personnel? WTF (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33770956)

I haven't heard anyone arguing against it being written by a foreign nation or major company, but I wonder why they arrested spies for it though.

Because, the Iranian government acts like a paranoid nut job, and they also control the media within Iran. Their actions and arrests are not about truth, but about posturing and control within their own country. And, also about seeming to be doing something so they can point the finger at the West.

They'll arrest practically anybody and call them a spy if it meets their purposes. Who they have arrested in this case is likely irrelevant -- either they are some random schmucks who are going to be used as scapegoats, or they might be loosely linked to the actual worm. Either way, they won't be above imprisoning, stoning, hanging or what have you.

Either way, they'll pursue them with the same zeal, and they will be a talking point for their president to babble and make veiled threats against everybody. Expect to see him in the UN blathering on incoherently about how they've defeated the enemy or how aliens are about to come out of his asshole and help then achieve their destiny.

I can't decide if his actions are tactical, or if he really is an unstable person who is in control of a military and backed by a bunch of other zealots with an equally skewed perception of the world.

If anybody has a president (and others) who someone should be assassinating, it is Iran. A couple of the Ayatolas are also wack jobs the world would be better off without.

Re:It needed in country personnel? WTF (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | about 4 years ago | (#33771088)

Oh I dunno, I'd put Moody's and S&P ahead in any such list of bodies.

Re:It needed in country personnel? WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771466)

I can think of a lot of Americans that are far more dangerous to the whole as a whole than a few crazies in Iran who have a limited reach.

They don't say who they think it is (0)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 4 years ago | (#33770884)

Although they don't say who it is, it's pretty clear they are trying to lay this on Israel and America.

And, to be honest, they probably wouldn't be too far off the mark.

That we think that Iran doesn't have the right to develop their own nuclear power generation plants without international oversight is pure hubris on our part.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33770954)

Yeah for me it isn't a question of whether it was or wasn't Israel/America, it's a question of what linear combination of CIA, NSA, and Mossad was involved. And despite being generally very critical of these organizations, I have to say good work: you did serious damage to an enemy of ours with no collateral damage. That takes skill and is precisely what I'm paying tax dollars towards you to do.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771006)

And why are they your enemy, can you elaborate please.?

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771102)

And why are they your enemy, can you elaborate please.?

Because, they've essentially declared themselves to be the enemy of anybody who isn't an Islamic state with the stated goal of overthrowing the West, Israel, or anybody who isn't an Islamic state?

Iran is more or less on record saying that they are our enemy, so, it's not like they're an ally.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

ohiovr (1859814) | about 4 years ago | (#33771676)

If you are not with us you're with the terrorists!! Der ter der

Re:They don't say who they think it is (2, Interesting)

LingNoi (1066278) | about 4 years ago | (#33771034)

FTA

However, the Busheher facility is operated by Russia and as a result, the US State Department has admitted it sees no proliferation risk from the plant.

Admittedly I didn't know much about Stuxnet until after reading more about it and it seems to me just yet another windows virus that hasn't until now been discovered and mistakenly spread via contractors laptops.

There's a lot of hype over this nuclear reactor however the fact of the matter is that it was only one of many infected areas and the rest of it is simply speculation about what damage could have been done there, what someone planned to spy on, etc. Seems to me that this worm wasn't designed for a specific target and is like any other virus.. well that or this is how Skynet starts becoming self-aware and begins manufacturing terminators..

I mean think about when was the last time the US government could do dick with computers? The US government was broken into by some retard in the UK using default passwords. How can people seriously believe the US government could come out with something like this. With all the media about the aurora virus i'd suspect the Chinese behind something like this way before America.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | about 4 years ago | (#33771210)

I mean think about when was the last time the US government could do dick with computers? The US government was broken into by some retard in the UK using default passwords. How can people seriously believe the US government could come out with something like this.

Considering this was done by taking advantage of a hardcoded and well published default username and password I'd say anyone could be behind it ... including the US government.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | about 4 years ago | (#33771394)

I just want to add something on to my original post but I'll reply to your posting instead..

The US government is having trouble filling it's security expert positions. It's IT czar is a position no one really wanted. It's US army screwed its own root DNS server for 18 hours.

Does that really sound like the kind of government or the kind of country that could pull this kind of thing off?

I'm not trying to make this sound like a US sucks posting just simply highlighting the fact that is the past decade the US government and it's agencies have tended to be horrible at anything related to IT security.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771522)

Good defense =/= good offence. To secure the goverment network you need thousands of IT pros, maybe even tens of thousands, while an attack like stuxnet only needs a small team of highly competent people. which of those two seems easier?

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | about 4 years ago | (#33771658)

My point is that the US government has neither.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | about 4 years ago | (#33771664)

Good defense =/= good offence. To secure the goverment network you need thousands of IT pros, maybe even tens of thousands, while an attack like stuxnet only needs a small team of highly competent people. which of those two seems easier?

Well, you're correct of course ... but all that means is that anyone on the planet could be responsible.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

amorsen (7485) | about 4 years ago | (#33771266)

Most viruses don't go looking around for PLC software. They tend to either be done for fame or for money, and these days it seems to be mostly money. I can't think of another virus comparable to Stuxnet.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | about 4 years ago | (#33771314)

spread via contractors laptops.

A PLC can be programmed with a pendant or with a laptop. After someone uses a laptop for the purpose, they will tell you where to put the pendant.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (4, Informative)

jbengt (874751) | about 4 years ago | (#33771318)

Admittedly I didn't know much about Stuxnet until after reading more about it and it seems to me just yet another windows virus that hasn't until now been discovered and mistakenly spread via contractors laptops. . . .
Seems to me that this worm wasn't designed for a specific target and is like any other virus..

From what I've read, it was specifically written to infect Siemens controllers, root them so it could change the control algorithms while displaying the proper algorithms when polled. The controllers are located at each piece of equipment, typically running independently, each with a minimal OS, if any. They are connected in a local network to allow communication and central monitoring and adjustment.. Stuxnet only used Windows vulnerabilities as a vector to get onto the front-end workstations in order to load into the controllers through the local network.

not "just yet another windows virus" (1)

r00t (33219) | about 4 years ago | (#33771536)

I expect you're trolling, but you got modded up so...

NO.

Just one single 0-day exploit is out of the ordinary. Of course every exploit becomes public this way, so it's not unheard of. Four 0-day exploits is shocking. It has never happened before. They are some pretty ideal exploits too, suggesting that the attacker has enough that he can pick and choose.

There were two driver signing keys, both normally used by legit companies. These keys were stolen (spy or malware), cracked, or obtained by government demand. Two of them!! I don't think this has ever happened for even one key before, never mind two.

Obscure hardware used to control a factory is manipulated. That's never been publicly seen before.

As an extra bonus, pretty much all anti-virus software is soundly defeated. This includes behavior-analysis types, not just signature-based types.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

Svartalf (2997) | about 4 years ago | (#33771678)

It's not just another virus as you surmise. It's designed explicitly to attack SCADA systems that were designed run on embedded Windows based boxes- it uses exploits that're specific to those types of systems to propagate.

It's not a lot of hype. All it takes to screw up a graphite or light water moderated reactor is do the wrong thing at the right time- Chernobyl and Three Mile Island happened because of operator error in overriding things controlled by SCADA like systems. With a SCADA system controlling the processes in a nuclear reactor, you can have all sorts of adverse things happen, including a meltdown.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (5, Interesting)

san (6716) | about 4 years ago | (#33771094)

Iran is a ratified signatory to the Nuclear Non-Profileration Treaty, so: they certainly don't have the right to develop nuclear weapons or even nuclear facilities except with IAEA oversight. Iran's nuclear activity is pretty clearly in contravention of this (they built a nuclear facility in secret near Qom [wikipedia.org] , for example), and there are now several UN sanctions in force against Iran because of this.

Is it 'Western hubris' to demand that a country abide by treaties it ratified? Especially a treaty on a matter as important as nuclear armament...

The reason the West is so hostile to the possibility of a nuclear Iran is that the only peaceful doctrine nuclear weapons allow, MAD [wikipedia.org] , assumes rational actors on all sides. In Iran that rationality might well be subservient to theology.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | about 4 years ago | (#33771236)

Iran is a ratified signatory to the Nuclear Non-Profileration Treaty, so: they certainly don't have the right to develop nuclear weapons or even nuclear facilities except with IAEA oversight.

Exactly. And the NPT provides a mechanism for backing out. Let them declare publicly that they wish to do this, so everyone knows exactly what they are about.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

san (6716) | about 4 years ago | (#33771290)

I guess they're staying in the NPT so that their facility in Bushehr can be legitimately maintained by Russia. What Russia gains from this isn't very clear to me, though.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771472)

I guess they're staying in the NPT so that their facility in Bushehr can be legitimately maintained by Russia. What Russia gains from this isn't very clear to me, though.

Russia gains cash and they get to seriously annoy the United States. Both are considered doubleplusgood by the Russians.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 4 years ago | (#33771534)

I guess they just want to have a horse in the (Middle East) race, even if their horse is batshit crazy.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

mr100percent (57156) | about 4 years ago | (#33771260)

So far they haven't broken the treaty. Have they broken their word? Yes, by building the Qom facility when they told the IAEA they would announce any new developments.

As Dave Chappelle said , "The worst you can call someone is crazy; It's dismissive." Iran is not stupid and not that crazy; they are rational and pragmatic. They are well aware of MAD and have been kept in line because of it; everyone knows Israel has nukes and Iran has been careful not to attack them directly. It's not theology that's at issue here; unlike Christian Zionists they do not believe they can "speed the coming of the apocalypse" by their actions.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 4 years ago | (#33771554)

Iran as a country, maybe not. But its current leaders, especially Ahmadinejad, are NOT rational nor pragmatic.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771558)

Taqqiya in my slashdot?

It's more likely than you think.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

san (6716) | about 4 years ago | (#33771688)

So far they haven't broken the treaty. Have they broken their word? Yes, by building the Qom facility when they told the IAEA they would announce any new developments.

By building a nuclear facility in secret they have broken the treaty. That's what the sanctions are about.

 

Iran is not stupid and not that crazy; they are rational and pragmatic.

The regime appears to be locked in a power struggle between the 'regular government' (for lack of a better term) and the Revolutionary Guard. Last week's on the media [onthemedia.org] has a good analysis on how Iran has now become a dangerous place even for those who vocally support its policies because of this. Regimes that feel threatened in their existence are generally not known for the rationality of their actions.

Christian Zionists they do not believe they can "speed the coming of the apocalypse" by their actions

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but at best it smells of moral relativism stemming from a laziness to think or to get informed (I'm sure there's a term for that).

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

Cyberax (705495) | about 4 years ago | (#33771296)

"Is it 'Western hubris' to demand that a country abide by treaties it ratified?"

Yes.

All treaties are 100% fairly balanced (1)

DrugCheese (266151) | about 4 years ago | (#33771334)

Just ask the native americans

Re:All treaties are 100% fairly balanced (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 4 years ago | (#33771568)

If one party has giant pile of nukes, and the other doesn't, why *should* the treaty be balanced?

Re:All treaties are 100% fairly balanced (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 4 years ago | (#33771588)

If one party has giant pile of nukes, and the other doesn't, why *should* the treaty be balanced?

Why *shouldn't* the party that doesn't have a giant pile of nukes want to balance it?

Re:All treaties are 100% fairly balanced (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | about 4 years ago | (#33771708)

If one party has giant pile of nukes, and the other doesn't, why *should* the treaty be balanced?

Why *shouldn't* the party that doesn't have a giant pile of nukes want to balance it?

Why *should* the party that does have a giant pile of nukes let them?

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771566)

American's only abide by their treaties when its convenient and profitable for them to do so. Hell even every Canadian knows that. As does every American Indian.

The only reason that Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty was because an American/British controlled puppet government told them to. You know the Shah, the fascist murderous dictation that took power thanks to American/British intervention in the country. I'm sure the US honors all treaties that the British signed on their behalf before the American Revolution, oh wait they don't. Unless your saying the Iranian people had no right to overthrow the Shah then the signing of the treaty has no validity.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | about 4 years ago | (#33771736)

American's only abide by their treaties when its convenient and profitable for them to do so.

Nice generalization there. What usually happens is that we refuse to become signatories to treaties that have no benefit to us, regardless of (ahem) "world opinion" on the matter. That is our right, and in fact we have honored treaties that cost us a great deal: the first Gulf War for example.

Regardless of whether or not you believe that Iran's signing of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat has any merit or any validity, they are current signatories. Period. End of statement. They also have the option of backing out of that treaty at any time: no-one is preventing them from doing just that. But they won't: they want the benefits of being on board without any of the responsibilities. Even the U.N. is pissed at them for that.

Re:They don't say who they think it is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771636)

And the problem is that the United States under the Bush administration stated quite explicitly that Iran would not be allowed to have even a purely civilian program. So it basically makes moot any potential violations of the NPT on Iran's part.

Can you say scape .... (0, Troll)

AnonymousClown (1788472) | about 4 years ago | (#33770964)

Can you say this [goats4h.com] ?

Then you're their spy!

The Iranian intelligence services gotta look like they're doing something and catching someone.

Libel (1)

Trivial Solutions (1724416) | about 4 years ago | (#33770978)

If you are in any way suggesting LoseThos is bad. Fuck you. Busted for slander.

Re:Libel (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771038)

If you are in any way suggesting LoseThos is bad. Fuck you. Busted for slander.

You're a moron and a tool.

Try and bust be for Libel or Slander.

"only a national intelligence agency" (5, Insightful)

ebcdic (39948) | about 4 years ago | (#33771008)

So called security experts - most of them in fact peddlers of software who depend on the fear of malware for their incomes - are not unbiased commentators. Remember how USL claimed that Unix was too complicated for Berkeley grad students to have replicated without copying their proprietary code? And SCO claimed that Linux couldn't possibly be that good without belonging to them? In fact, there's no software "so sophisticated" that it can't be produced by a bunch of sufficiently dedicated geeks.

It's an argument particularly appealing to conspiracy theorists - look at how the authors of "The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail" insisted that no-one would expend the effort to forge the documents they relied on, even after the hoax was admitted. You just can't judge this kind of thing on that basis.

Re:"only a national intelligence agency" (1)

mSparks43 (757109) | about 4 years ago | (#33771180)

"Stealing" two CA (root?) keys isn't exactly in the realm of available geek hours though is it.
Or are we saying that SSL is now properly just a pure illusion of security.

In fact, there's no software "so sophisticated" that it can't be produced by a bunch of sufficiently dedicated geeks.

Re:"only a national intelligence agency" (1)

realxmp (518717) | about 4 years ago | (#33771444)

They weren't CA keys, they were the private keys belonging to certificates used by two hardware companies to sign their code. If they were CA keys then every single certificate signed by those CA keys owned by literally thousands of companies would have to be revoked and reissued. As it was the CA's just added the two keys fingerprints to the CRL, thus invalidating the certificates owned by those two companies and any drivers signed by them.

Eh.. (4, Insightful)

Renraku (518261) | about 4 years ago | (#33771012)

Rest assured, you'll never catch those in charge. I doubt there are names on it. Maybe an agency, but they aren't going to be dumb enough to step into Iran. Iran is simply using these arrests as as political tool to further their own goals.

Re:Eh.. (2, Interesting)

mr100percent (57156) | about 4 years ago | (#33771292)

It was never the claim that these arrested people are the ones who wrote the virus.

The article is quite thin on details, but I assume they arrested people they blame on espionage within the plant; either people with access to the computers (do we know if the infection was via internet or via flash drives?), or those who had detailed knowledge of what specific machinery/PLCs were installed and could pass it on to whomever wrote the custom-tailored virus.

Instead of knee-jerk saying Iran is arresting for political purposes, maybe we should consider that perhaps Iran did arrest actual collaborators? Everyone knows there are CIA and Mossad operatives in Iran.

Re:Eh.. (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 4 years ago | (#33771584)

Well, it's not really a knee jerk reaction as much as "it was true the last 10 times they did it, so it's probably a pretty good bet this time, too".

Re:Eh.. (1)

linumax (910946) | about 4 years ago | (#33771510)

It's a pretty typical thing in Iran. Whenever something goes wrong, be it a bombing, an armed conflict against the regime or something relatively untraceable like Stuxnet, within a few days, a bunch of people (often little known political prisoners) are paraded on TV, admit that they did it and they were fooled by CIA, Mossad, etc. and then no one ever hears about them again.

Infection? What infection? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771110)

"Reports surfacing from Iran claim 'nuclear spies' have been arrested over the infection at the Busheher nuclear station, which opened in August.

The Iranian gov't already claimed that the Busheher nuclear station wasn't affected at all.

It's all lies.

Really, Slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771114)

You couldn't be bothered to spelled 'alleged' correctly in a *headline*.

two stolen security certificates? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771238)

Why didn't Iran revoke those certificates as soon as they realized they were missing?

Worm graphic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771240)

Damn, that little green worm graphic is cute.

Thank Allah that Iran has arrested scapegoats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771244)

I'm always suspicious when there are claims of multiple arrests after something like this, especially when there is no real explanation of how they found them. It's not like they had video footage of the "spies" planting the malware. It's more like "Oh, we look really silly, let's round up the usual suspects and charge them with something, so it looks like we are on the case!"

Its really a Windows problem. (1)

argee (1327877) | about 4 years ago | (#33771258)

Yes, its an industrial automation system by
Siemens, AG, but the software runs on Windows.

I wouldn't trust Windows to fly an airliner; would
you trust it to run your nuclear plant or a
hydro station?

Wanna bet that Windows has NSA "back doors?"

They are nuts to run American Windows.

mod 04 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33771274)

hagppiness Another

Wonder if they used U.S. criteria? (1)

ibsteve2u (1184603) | about 4 years ago | (#33771302)

As in, you have the worm, so you created or spread it?

That "possession is proof of the crime" is an attribute of the legal system here, and it is getting ever cheaper to use it to your benefit: Where once you had to drop some serious cash buying coke to plant on your targets, now you just link them to an autodownloader that drops some child porn on their computer(s). You don't even have to run the risk of linking yourself to the incident by ratting 'em out...some eager-beaver IT type or an automated sentry program will usually do it for you.

The possibilities in a state such as Iran which has even more "Thou shalt nots!!!" than we do (at this time) and a legal system that is even more "conservative" than ours is (at this time) are...staggering.

Scapegoat lottery (1)

horza (87255) | about 4 years ago | (#33771484)

I wouldn't like to be the name in the telephone directory that the pin landed on when identifying the 'spies'.

Phillip.

"Alledged" (1)

grayshirtninja (1242690) | about 4 years ago | (#33771600)

Alledged? Did they catch them up on a cliff?

More to come? (1)

Anachragnome (1008495) | about 4 years ago | (#33771728)

More to come?

We Americans haven't had such good luck in Iran. The Shah was a wipe. Look where that left us.

So now, they have in their possession a virus specifically designed to take down infrastructure. Doesn't Iran have computer specialists too? How long before they simply reverse-engineer this virus and use it against us? Against Israel? Their neighbors?

Reminds me of the Viet Cong digging up our landmines only to replant them in our own path. Cheap, effective and has the "value added" aspect--the enemy foots the bill for their own destruction.

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