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Epic Games Predicts Console, Mobile Convergence

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the sounds-like-a-job-for-ben-heck dept.

Portables (Games) 104

An anonymous reader writes "After taking the stage at the Apple iPhone event in September, game developer Epic Games has finally revealed more about its plan to release Unreal Engine for the iOS devices. UE3 is incredibly popular on consoles, and its free UDK has been really great for us modders. In this new interview, engine boss Mark Rein says the developer envisions a future where all game devices are handhelds, with high-end processors inside: 'It feels like there's a great opportunity for game consoles to cease to be something you plug into the wall and rather become something you take with you. Of course it will be more than just your game console; you can have your productivity apps, your documents, and your media collections on it as well.'"

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BREAKING NEWS (5, Funny)

Hackie_Chan (678203) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792122)

Epic Games Mark Rein predicts the emerging market of a combination between laps and tops of some sort.

Shut up, he's a visionary ;) (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792534)

Ah, shut up, you just can't recognize a visionary. Just imagine a future where you'll have just hand-held device that you can play your games on, read your email, have your calendar, and make phone calls too. If only someone could start making a, dunno, a Nokia N-Gage [wikipedia.org] . And you could look like a complete retard while making calls with it too, for no extra cost! ;)

(The geniuses at Nokia placed the speaker and phone on the side, so, yeah, you'd have to hold it in a completely ridiculous position to actually use it as a phone. Official version is that they didn't have enough room on the front after all those buttons, but I have to wonder if it's not really a marketroid's idea so everyone could see you're making calls with their game console.)

When the year 2003 comes by, you'll see how much of a visionary this guy was ;)

Re:BREAKING NEWS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792998)

Epic Games Mark Rein predicts the emerging market of a combination between laps and tops of some sort.

Umm ya.. it's called a LAPTOP!

Re:BREAKING NEWS (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793192)

Do you type laying down?
You must, because that *Whoosh* was about six inches off the ground and it still went over your head.

Re:BREAKING NEWS (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793516)

Epic Games couldn't predict getting wet if they fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean.

The Oracle (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792136)

I envision a future when all apps will be directly felt by human minds without the need to use physical interfaces nor fallible senses.

Nope, I don't have any date for my vision either, so it's just as useles as his.

Re:The Oracle (1)

simoncpu was here (1601629) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792310)

I envision a future where our minds would become Beowulf nodes. I don't have any date for my vision either.

Re:The Oracle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792488)

I hope we'll have better fashion sense than TNG's prediction of such living Beowulf nodes [wikipedia.org] !

Re:The Oracle (1)

mb1 (966747) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792794)

Naah, easy as - just put all of these down somewhere between 'Year of Linux Desktop' and 'Duke Nukem Forever'...

Re:The Oracle (2, Funny)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 3 years ago | (#33795736)

I am also on Slashdot. I don't have a date for tonight either.

Should be targeted at more than iOS (3, Insightful)

Quick Reply (688867) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792144)

It sounds good to me, except for that this is targeted at only one mobile platform. This direction is not in the best interests of the free market or customers.

Re:Should be targeted at more than iOS (1)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792768)

Android (on Tegra 2 based systems) is also being targeted by Epic. It just doesn't get as much attention (nor is there a public tech demo). But you can find a bunch of videos on youtube.

Really? (4, Insightful)

ADRA (37398) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792154)

I realize that the quote may be a little far fetching or out of context, but really? Even if mobile phones did have the same capabilities of my PC/consoles, would you really want to play serious games spending half your fingers holding the thing? Crappy sound or at best stereo headphone speaker sound? 3-5 inch screens? Even tablets with their adequately larger screens suffer from the problems of holding the device, and touch covering up the picture. If you 'solve' it with joysticks and holders, you lose the portability benefit, and we're back to what's the point. I definitely like mobile games in either phone or portable console styling, but its delusional to think that the use case for video games will stride so far from today's gaming climate. Oh, Fallout New Vegas is getting released for an iPhone! I'm totally lining up for it. Lets not even touch the caveats of trying to run 'real' network multiplayers through modern carrier cell networks. I never even want to run it through my flaky Wifi.

Re:Really? (1, Interesting)

myxiplx (906307) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792352)

Don't think of it as a replacement for a console, but instead of a way for you to take your console game out with you wherever you go. That has the potential to be a powerful combination. A full console game you play as normal at home, but while you're out you can still work on character progression, or play with your friends.

Sure, the gameplay experience on the phone isn't going to be identical, but it doesn't have to be. The added convenience of having your games with you wherever you go means that people are more than happy to put up with a smaller screen. I was a huge fan of flight sims on the PC, now one of my favourite games is a space combat sim on the iPhone. Sure, the graphics aren't as good, and the controls are a bit more fiddly, but it has the all essential essence of the game, it's fun to play, and because I always have my phone with me, I can play it anytime I want.

Sure, this might not be for everyone. For a die hard console enthusiast, with plenty of time to stay home and play, they're always going to prefer native console games. However, there's a much bigger market of people for whom gaming is something they have to fit around their other commitments, and for that market, this could be huge.

Also, if your phone becomes an integral part of the games, imagine this: There's nothing to stop companies using phones as a wireless controller with a built in display, and built in storage. You can use the phone to display game elements distinct to your character, and to store your save games. So now you don't need to buy consoles with a bunch of controllers for multiplayer gaming, if you want to play with some mates you can head over to anybody's house with a console, you all have your controllers with you, and you all have your saved characters. Plus you could start the game while you're in the pub, not many consoles can do that :-)

And I'll leave you with one final bit of food for thought: Imagine what's going to happen if something like WoW were to adopt that platform... An immersive MMO that you can play online at home with your friends, or play with friends at somebody's house, or just play on your own anywhere you like...

I doubt phones will replace consoles, but there's potential for them to supplement them beautifully.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792576)

Like the PSP?

Re:Really? (1)

smallfries (601545) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792742)

Did you even read the summary?

envisions a future where all game devices are handhelds

So sure you may be right that portable devices won't completely replace consoles..... which is what the post that you replied was arguing in response to the topic being discussed. Try thinking before typing. It works for all ages.

Re:Really? (1)

Guspaz (556486) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793830)

Replacing all devices is even less realistic than complementing them... Unless battery technology makes a quantum leap, allowing power densities a hundred times what we have today, power will be an issue for a long time to come; you'll still be limited to a watt or two on a handheld device, while your console will be able to take advantage of a hundred watts or two.

Re:Really? (1)

smallfries (601545) | more than 3 years ago | (#33795356)

Very true. But then again I'm not suggesting that consoles will be replaced by portables. In fact I'd say the much bigger handicap is screen size. I *like* a 40" rendition of Wipeout. The same game on a PSP doesn't really compare.

Re:Really? (0)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796612)

Here's an item for you to ponder though...

Picture roughly the effective power of the X-Box classic or the Wii.

Now, picture that device fitting in the palm of your hand and consumes about a watt or so under full-tilt operation.

Impossible? Hardly. Here's a partial list of the very devices that fit this picture I'm painting.

BeagleBoard
BeagleBoard xM (Much more aggressive config with 1GHz SoC, etc.)
Gumstix Overo
Pandora Gaming Handheld
Nokia N900
Droid
Droid X
Droid Incredible
Droid 2
Always Innovating Touchbook
Dell Streak
iPhone G3
iPhone G4
iPad
(The list can't be exhaustive- it's any device that's sporting an OMAP3, Snapdragon with GPU, iMx515, Marvell Sheeva series SoC; there's no way to list just how many machines really, really do fit in this space right at the moment.)

This is with the currently shipping generation of ARM based systems. No, it's not a PS3 or 360. The handheld space will start getting devices that'll get a whiff of that space sometime end of this to middle of the next year when the Cortex A9 and equivalent derived SoC's start showing up. They'll perform in a very similar power envelope, perform more akin to the CPUs in the consoles and have from one to four primary CPU cores in an SMP configuration. The only sticking point would be the GPU and you can get credible performance with less transistors doing resolutions like 800x400 or 1024x600- and that's all the mobile devices really offer and can currently do.

This is not saying that they won't have consoles that make this look weak in comparison- odds on the big 3 has equally impressive things waiting for us that put them back ahead of that pack I allude to here. However, the power densities you hint at aren't needed to do the consoles now. It's just that the PARTS they're using need that much.

Will handhelds replace consoles? Hardly. But there's about to be a BIG jump in what a handheld can and will do and it'll place it well into the current console generation's space fairly quick.

Re:Really? (1)

Guspaz (556486) | more than 3 years ago | (#33797540)

But with a power budget a hundred times higher, consoles will already be ahead. Yes, portable devices have passed previous gen consoles and will eventually pass current-gen consoles, but remember that current-gen consoles are way behind the curve. The seventh generation began five years ago with the 360, and the sort of hardware that could be produced today (5 years should be roughly 3-4 doublings by Moore's Law) is far more performant than the current consoles on the market.

The fact is, yes, what a mobile device can achieve is rapidly increasing, but no more so than what a non-portable device can achieve. You will always be able to do a lot more with a hundred times the power budget. This will always be the case, and handhelds will never catch up with what a home console produced at the same time could achieve.

Re:Really? (1)

Kitsune Inari (1801214) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796728)

Unless battery technology makes a quantum leap

If it makes a quantum leap, it'll be the same as not changing at all. [irregularwebcomic.net]

Re:Really? (1)

Guspaz (556486) | more than 3 years ago | (#33797726)

If you want to be pedantic, let's look up the actual definition for "Quantum Leap" from the oxford dictionary:

"a sudden large increase or advance"

How about Princeton WordNet?

"quantum leap, quantum jump (a sudden large increase or advance)"

Dictionary.com?

"any sudden and significant change, advance, or increase."

Cambridge?

"a great improvement or important development in something"

Merriam-Webster?

"an abrupt change, sudden increase, or dramatic advance"

What about in terms of the actual scientific concept of a sudden change in an electron's energy level? The relative distance moved compared to the size of the electron is mind bogglingly enormous.

Re:Really? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792774)

Until phones have lots of lovely buttons, triggers and proper joysticks, I'm not going to be getting rid of my DualShock controllers anytime soon. And while it sounds cool, I don't really give a crap about screens on the controller either.. I've not looked at my controller when playing a game for over 10 years (ie, since I memorised which shape was on which button).

Re:Really? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793022)

A full console game you play as normal at home, but while you're out you can still work on character progression, or play with your friends.

I thought the "play with your friends" thing was an advantage of consoles, which usually have a big enough screen that all players can see it [pineight.com] .

Re:Really? (1)

Dopefish_1 (217994) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793118)

There's nothing to stop companies using phones as a wireless controller with a built in display, and built in storage. You can use the phone to display game elements distinct to your character, and to store your save games.

Sounds an awful lot like a Dreamcast VMU.

Re:Really? (1)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 3 years ago | (#33794450)

And I'll leave you with one final bit of food for thought: Imagine what's going to happen if something like WoW were to adopt that platform... An immersive MMO that you can play online at home with your friends, or play with friends at somebody's house, or just play on your own anywhere you like...

You mean like a laptop?

Re:Really? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792446)

I realize that the quote may be a little far fetching or out of context, but really? Even if mobile phones did have the same capabilities of my PC/consoles, would you really want to play serious games spending half your fingers holding the thing? Crappy sound or at best stereo headphone speaker sound? 3-5 inch screens?

And yet, in spite of vinyl records sounding better, in spite of CD allowing a high fidelity, there is still a gadget named iPod (and rumors say it is/was sold quite massively).

Re:Really? (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792946)

The difference is that most people don't see the downsides in digital music - for the average person they don't care that it's not as warm as vinyl, or that it lacks the fidelity or range of CD. That's where gaming differs. A phone as a gaming devices offers the portability of a PMP, but it comes with some massive disadvantages (tiny screen, crappy processor, currently no decent multiplayer model) that the user would have to swallow. I don't doubt more people will start gaming on their mobiles, but we need some serious technical advances before that meant the death of consoles (something like the technology in Halting State [wikipedia.org] - incredibly powerful mobile devices capable of rendering true virtual worlds which in turn are viewed through a device akin to a pair of spectacles and not much heavier, giving a truly portable and immersive experience and coupled with massive cell bandwidth to allow for realistic multiplayer. I don't think we're even close to this in the near future (again, without that massive technical breakthrough I mentioned).

Re:Really? (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793016)

No, for most people the CDs don't actually offer a better quality, simply because the players they have limit it anyway. To enjoy the difference between a 320kbps MP3 and a CD you have to get a decent (read: pricy) player, and even then most people won't notice (loudness war is also a limiting factor).

The difference between an iPod and a good CD player isn't nearly as big as the difference between playing on a handheld vs. console.

You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792546)

You're not seeing the real advantage. That being, of course, more money for Epic.

With traditional consoles you buy a game, plug in 2, 3 or 4 controllers and can play with your friends or family. With networked handhelds (which actually isn't new either, the PSP already did wireless multiplayer in 2004, and so did the Nintendo DS) you can play with several people too, but you're not going to do that with 4 people around a tiny screen. You're going to buy 2, 3 or 4 games. Ka-ching.

Add the fact that this is, you know, Epic. The guys who fled the PC because they only had one rehash of the same game to offer again and again until it tanked. And they blamed it on the imminent demise of the PC market and piracy and whatever, when similar games sold several times the number of copies in the same period. Then they did ok on the XBox as long as basically they were almost the only FPS game in town. Now they're pretty much the only major game dev excited about Apple's walled garden enforced with an iron fist. I wonder why ;)

What, did you think he was excited about it because of advantages for _you_?

Re:You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

ElKry (1544795) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792862)

With networked handhelds (which actually isn't new either, the PSP already did wireless multiplayer in 2004, and so did the Nintendo DS) you can play with several people too, but you're not going to do that with 4 people around a tiny screen. You're going to buy 2, 3 or 4 games.

To be fair, a good amount of DS (I don't know about the PSP) games allow you to play multiplayer with just one of you owning the game. The other DS will download the needed parts of the game from you (it's actually called "DS Download Play" on the main menu screen) and you're good to go.

Re:You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792888)

Hmm, ok, I don't have much experience with the DS, but with the PSP both had to have the game.

Re:You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793138)

Some PSP games do support what SCEfoo calls "Game Sharing"

Re:You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792954)

I've tried this with a couple of titles, and while it's a nice feature, it seemed to me that it was needlessly slow, forcing a lot of re-downloading that wouldn't be necessary if the code was optimised for this kind of play (for instance, in Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes, if I and my opponent want to play the same map with the same army over and over, don't make us return to the menu screen and have to download the whole map and both armies again when they're already in memory, just have a "play again" option at the end of the round). I did wonder if this was done cynically to make owning two copies a better experience. Still better than nothing and gives a taste of the full two cart experience, and if other games handle this better then I take it back (this is based on my limited experience on that and another title I can't remember right now).

Re:You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796346)

Not to beat a dead horse on the issue, but Apple would never support such a model unless it was specifically shoehorned into their application store model. Since games can't run code from downloaded sources, there can be no boot-strap hub for iPhoneDownloadPlay in the case of iPhone anyways.

Re:You're not seeing the real advantage (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792982)

> Add the fact that this is, you know, Epic. The guys who fled the PC because they only had one rehash of the same game to offer again and again until it tanked. And they blamed it on the imminent demise of the PC market and piracy and whatever, when similar games sold several times the number of copies in the same period.

I would [mostly] agree with this. The latter UTs weren't as "good" as the earlier ones. The "fps community" moved onto new & better games ... Battlefield Bad Company 2, Call of Duty MW, etc ...

> Then they did ok on the XBox as long as basically they were almost the only FPS game in town.

Again, agreed. Thankfully (love it or hate it) Halo on the XBox re-vitalized the FPS market (along with Call of Duty/MW.) Some sort of recharging shield + skill tree / perks seems to be resultant merger of FPS+RPGs these days.

> Now they're pretty much the only major game dev excited about Apple's walled garden enforced with an iron fist. I wonder why ;)

Have you had a chance to check out the "Epic Citadel" demo on the iPhone. Looks like your first point "more money for Epic." is spot on.
http://app-store.appspot.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fax.phobos.apple.com.edgesuite.net%2Fus%2Fapp%2Fepic-citadel%2Fid388888815%3Fmt%3D8 [appspot.com]

There are a few other game companies that seem to deliver good iPhone games -- Gameloft for example with "Dungeon Hunter"
http://app-store.appspot.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fax.phobos.apple.com.edgesuite.net%2Fus%2Fapp%2Fdungeon-hunter%2Fid329899071%3Fmt%3D8%26ign-impt%3DclickRef%253DSoftware%252520Page-US-Dungeon%252520Hunter-329899071-Lockup [appspot.com]

Cheers

Yeah, right. (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792158)

And just a few years ago, I predicted that my PDA would converge with my telephone.

Gimme a "D!" Gimme a "U!" Gimme an "H!"

That spells "DUH!" Go team!

yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792168)

In my past i predicted the same thing. It was called the sega game gear. It played master system games.

Back to Pippen (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792172)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin [wikipedia.org]
Same expensive, low frame rate, with a Bungie game box for 2011?
Whats new again? Just the next gen of people who want to be locked into a walled garden?

Re:Back to Pippen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792858)

Whats new again? Just the next gen of people who want to be locked into a walled garden?

And just when we'd finally realized extremely popular, open-source consoles. Damn!

Re:Back to Pippen (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792962)

You're right of course, but this is more about access to content - with a console I can buy a second hand game dirt cheap, can't do that with digital content on a phone behind a walled garden. Likewise I can loan my game to a friend, can't do that with digital content on a phone. Of course, they'd trying to kill this even on consoles with various DLC tricks (putting a big chunk of the game in DLC that's free with purchase, so it's stripped out of second hand copies so you either buy new or give them the money they lost on the new sale, for instance), so rather than focus on the hardware this story should probably be about how consumer choice and freedom in terms of software is going down the toilet.

How are we defining console? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793052)

And just when we'd finally realized extremely popular, open-source consoles.

We have open-source consoles; they're just not popular. PCs in a home theater PC case [wikipedia.org] are consoles in the sense that they are game-playing devices sitting in a home entertainment center. ION nettop PCs such as Acer AspireRevo are consoles in the second sense of "fixed hardware" as well as fitting in a TV cabinet. But apparently, the major labels have some sort of tradition [slashdot.org] against releasing multiplayer PC games designed for set-top use.

Re:How are we defining console? (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796872)

Heh... I don't know... Seems like they've managed pretty well with the first four thousand being sold out hours after the offer on production for the OpenPandora- and there's a waiting line for the next production batch.

If you're talking like PS3, X-Box 360, and Wii or perhaps the PSP and DS- yeah, that isn't "popular". That's more because there's not big money behind it with advertising, etc.

As for a tradition there, the item you linked doesn't say anything about that sort of thing. Set-tops would be little different that a PS3 as it's being sold, really- and if they could economically bring all those parts into a TV, they'd sell them that way. Right now, however, the parts are only there for something like an X-Box classic in capabilities being economical to add to a HD TV/Monitor.

Re:How are we defining console? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33797610)

Seems like they've managed pretty well with the first four thousand being sold out hours after the offer on production for the OpenPandora

Four thousand isn't a big enough market for someone to quit his day job and produce games for Pandora.

As for a tradition there, the item you linked doesn't say anything about that sort of thing.

Hit Parent. There was a question about why there aren't many games designed for set-top gaming PCs, and this is because there aren't many set-top gaming PCs in households. This is in turn because there aren't many games designed for set-top gaming PCs. CronoCloud traced this back to a tradition in the PC game market.

donotwant (5, Insightful)

GabriellaKat (748072) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792174)

donotwant tag desired! We love to play our games on our consoles, with a huge TV, a cold beverage and bag of chips or popcorn or etc beside us. Not on some finger greased up portable small ass screen that is easily broken by a 10yr old pitching a fit when she loses a level / life.

Re:donotwant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792290)

The good news is that most games don't even allow ten year olds to lose these days.

Re:donotwant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792436)

The good news is that most games don't even allow ten year olds to lose these days.

And yet far older gamers still somehow manage to find ways to fail miserably in every single online game I play.

Re:donotwant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33795606)

And yet far older gamers still somehow manage to find ways to fail miserably in every single online game I play.

STFU, troll. Your small sample size of older gamers is not indicative of the older gaming population at large, much less the hardcore subset of that crowd. Besides, the fact of the matter is that most people aren't really good at games anyway. The large majority of gamers are casual gamers, so it's not really surprising that you see gamers who happen to be older fail miserably in online games.

Come back when your voice breaks and your balls drop; until then please stay out of my online gaming experience because it's really irritating to hear prepubescent fools like you scream like little bitches on Ventrilo. That is all.

Re:donotwant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33800770)

And yet here you are screaming like a little bitch on Slashdot.

Sorry if my comment about older gamers hurt your boy pussy.

Oh yeah... get off my lawn you little shit.

Re:donotwant (1, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792384)

He's not saying that what you want will disappear, he's saying that when you come home, your iPod (or whatever) will become your console, hook up automatically through the air, and you'll pick up wireless controllers to play with it.

It sounds a bit far-fetched to me, beyond the limits of the technology, but then many people who predict limits of technology end up being wrong.

Some current Smartphones have HDMI connections (1)

IYagami (136831) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792618)

Connecting to an HD TV
Nokia N8 and EVO 4G, for example, have a HDMI port to connect to a HD TV.

GPU Power
The current Smartphones can put up to 1000 MPixels/sec (see http://alienbabeltech.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Cellphonehardwarecompari1.png [alienbabeltech.com] ). For example, an ATi Radeon HD 2400 Pro PCI-E produces 2100 MPixels/sec (see http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=525&card2= [gpureview.com] )

RAM
iPhone 4 has 512MB of RAM, the same as the XBOX 360.

With new cores, such as ARM Cortex A9, the computing power of these devices will further increase.

You can find more info at:
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=17125 [alienbabeltech.com] (Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon: The 1 GHz Smartphone Showdown)

Re:Some current Smartphones have HDMI connections (2, Interesting)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793108)

Ok but you miss one thing: No matter what a phone can do, a non-phone can do more. That is just life. You can't design a 1 watt (or less) GPU using current technology that will be better than a 10 or 100watt GPU also using current technology. Sure it might look good if you compare it to older tech, but that isn't realistic. I mean ok you found an old card that was low end when it was released that has the same theoretical fill rate (please remember those numbers often high BSified). How about a current card? Well a 5870 can do 108 billion anti-aliased samples per second, about 30 billion pixels a second. It can do this while pushing 850 million polygons per second. (FYI your link is broken)

Hmmm, the cellphones don't compare quite so favourably to that, do they? Wouldn't expect them to, it's idle power budget exceeds their total power budget by may times, but then it can do that, it isn't mobile.

You are looking at latest gen hardware, including some things that aren't even in the market yet (the A9 has been announced, it isn't in devices yet) and saying "Oh look at how powerful this is!" However you don't seem to do the same with non-mobile hardware. Look at the upcoming Sandy Bridge processor, which will be out when the A9 is. The A9 will be crushed by it (or indeed by a current Intel Core chip). No surprise, again massively different size, power budget, and so on but you have to consider that when looking at performance.

Re:Some current Smartphones have HDMI connections (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 3 years ago | (#33797050)

Heh...

1) They could miss things on Sandy Bridge. Do keep in mind that we WERE supposed to see Larrabee LAST year and they boggled on it.

2) Arm A9's more scalable than you seem to give credit for- they're just showing 2GHz silicon right now that's destined for mobile hardware. If you relax the requirements for TDP a bit and design for that opening up of things, you can ramp up clock quite nicely. In the space for a console unit, I could envision someone talking ARM possibly into doing a 3-4 GHz version of the A9 and doing well with it as it'd be much more than the current crop of CPUs in TDP and performance.

3) Sandy Bridge has NOTHING to do with the mobile or console space. It's a desktop/server space component with insane TDPs for anything other than those uses. (Here's a hint: What CPU is being used in the current gen consoles? While it's most definitely not ARM, it's also not X86 and the one player that did X86 in the prior generation dropped it for PowerPC...)

While I don't wholly disagree with your thinking, none of the reasons you've given really pan out. You give too much to Intel and not enough to what is currently going on in the industry, including in the ARM CPU space.

Re:Some current Smartphones have HDMI connections (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33798008)

No I just don't worship ARM like so many /.ers. I have seen their CPUs and they are good at what they do. They are low power, excellent embedded chips. However they are no magic. They aren't some amazing technology that is so much better than anything else, that if we only used we could have much faster CPUs. No, actually, you could scale them up and they'd compete well with other CPUs on their scale. However they wouldn't be this amazing, fast, never before seen chip. That is just life. You find that Intel, Power, etc, they all perform similarly when you take performance in terms of size and power.

ARM's chips are great for embedded, that's why they are widely used. Doesn't mean they are better than desktop chips.

Re:donotwant (1)

arndawg (1468629) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792816)

I don't think the technology is that far away. After all wireless HDMI is available. The problem as I see it is that phones will always be far behind the computing power of a real console. Might happen when everything is so fast that the real bottleneck is the progarmmers and game designers. I'm not sure, are we getting close yet?

Re:donotwant (-1, Flamebait)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792850)

Just remember this is from the same company that has beaten the dead horse known as Quake and Unreal Arena for waaaaaay too many years now. sure they are gonna push for new markets, as it gives them another excuse to sell the same shitty games they've been pushing forever. What I don't get is why so many other companies [wikipedia.org] can think of new and exciting ideas to do with their engine, and they can't. Have they become too big, is the boss an asshole and scares off the talent, what?

Re:donotwant (1)

c0d3g33k (102699) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792994)

Just remember this is from the same company that has beaten the dead horse known as Quake and Unreal Arena for waaaaaay too many years now. sure they are gonna push for new markets, as it gives them another excuse to sell the same shitty games they've been pushing forever. What I don't get is why so many other companies [wikipedia.org] can think of new and exciting ideas to do with their engine, and they can't. Have they become too big, is the boss an asshole and scares off the talent, what?

Congratulations! You're the winner of today's "Seriously confused" award!

Epic Games has nothing to do with Quake - that is id Software. And Epic didn't make a game called 'Unreal Arena' - you might be thinking of Quake III: Arena, also by id. Aaaaand ... You get bonus points for actually providing a link to a list of all Unreal Engine games made - a list that contains neither of your examples. The lack of reading comprehension is ... well ... epic.

On the bright side, you've seriously confused me as well - I have no idea which company you were attempting to trash. Bravo, sir.

Ya I want to know what Epic is on (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793006)

Seriously, I'd expect more intelligence out of the company that is on top of the engine game. This "Everything is going to be a mobile device," concept is STUPID. No, it isn't. Were it the case that humans only wanted one device for things, that a single mobile unit was the be-all, end-all of human needs, well then we'd already be seeing convergence in many markets around that idea. The technology is there, and has been for some time for most things, yet it isn't happening.

Why? Because we want devices that are more suited to various purposes.

Your post about a TV is spot on. Could I watch media on my phone? Sure. It is a smart phone, it could do that. I don't though. I bought an LCD TV. In fact I bought it AFTER I already owned the phone. Why would I do such a thing? Well because my phone is tiny. I don't care to sit and stare at a minuscule screen I have to hold up. I want to sack out on the couch and watch a nice, large picture. My TV lets me do that quite well. No, I can't pick it up and take it with me, but that's ok. The phone is for coming with me to make phone calls, the TV is for staying home and playing media.

To me this is like saying "Everyone is going to own nothing but a toaster over. Seriously, why would you want anything else? I'll make toast, it'll heat your food, it does everything. You should ditch your stove, oven, microwave, toaster, electric kettle, etc and just have a toaster oven. It is all you need." Ok, perhaps if you got nit picky that would be true. I suppose for small food sizes one could indeed cook everything in a toaster oven. However that is a pain. I'll keep my multiple cooking appliances, thanks.

Personally I for sure don't see phones replacing consoles/desktops for gaming for just the reason of size and convenience alone. However there's also the simple fact that until we invent a better battery technology, phone life is rather limited. You spend 3 hours playing a game on your phone, you'll be lucky to make a 10 minute phone call after that. It is just life. There is no magic way around this, without new technology you can't increase energy density of batteries, and screens, radios, CPUs, these all take power. You can decrease their power draw somewhat but the screen in particular just needs a lot of power, especially if it is larger.

Also people do like visuals and you can do more with a console than a phone. This is true no matter what the technology. If I can do a certain amount with a 1 watt GPU in a phone, I can do a lot more with a 10 or 50 or 100 watt GPU in a console. This is true for any given technology. Yes, a 40nm GPU in a brand new ultra-modern phone might compare somewhat favorably to say a chip from, say, an X-box. However that was built using 150nm lithography. If you compare a mobile phone to a current GPU, also built on 40nm lithography, it compares much less favourably. With the same technology, the chip with more transistors can do more.

I'm sure mobile phone gaming will be a big market, because it has the advantage of being the device people nearly always have on them (something to be said for having a game at hand when you are waiting in the doctor's office). However I am also sure that it will not be the be-all, end-all.

Re:Ya I want to know what Epic is on (1)

hackerjoe (159094) | more than 3 years ago | (#33800532)

Also people do like visuals and you can do more with a console than a phone. This is true no matter what the technology. If I can do a certain amount with a 1 watt GPU in a phone, I can do a lot more with a 10 or 50 or 100 watt GPU in a console.

I can say this with some authority as a game developer who's working on console titles and with mobile phones:

You are assuming that there's another, more advanced console generation on the horizon. There isn't. Microsoft hasn't announced it, Sony hasn't announced, and Nintendo is still catching up to the last generation. Oh sure, eventually we'll get one, but I'd be surprised if we even got an announcement about a more powerful console within a year.

Meanwhile, sub-1-watt GPUs are gaining ground FAST. The latest phone chipsets are within a stone's throw of "fast enough that nobody can afford to make content that fully uses the graphics hardware".

That's the real reason we're not seeing another console hardware generation: the art budget to fully take advantage of current-generation hardware is in the neighbourhood of $30M. You can't spend much more than that on average and still expect to make money on a game.

So, yeah, you're not wrong, but you're missing the big picture. Nintendo got it when they released the Wii; Epic gets it. It would be nice to get phones up to par with the consoles so we don't have to spend quite as much time optimizing our code, and so the lowest common denominator is better, but game developers aren't all that anxious for more graphics horsepower than the Xbox 360 offers.

I don't think the console form factor is going away, but regardless, there's a lot of value in unified tech across all platforms, PC, console, and mobile; mobile is going to be big enough soon that every serious game engine is going to have to be mobile-capable, even if games are still largely being targeted at consoles.

This was a bizarre concept at one point, there was no way you could use the same engine on e.g. the Nintendo DS and the Xbox 360. Now handhelds and consoles are close enough that it would be stupid not to use the same engine...

Re:donotwant (1)

CapnPDA (771979) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793250)

Yes, but what if it was the same device you took with you and used to play anywhere and then docked it at home and had it hooked to all the living room goodness you describe? Wouldn't that be great?

Re:donotwant (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33794028)

Not on some finger greased up portable small ass screen that is easily broken by a 10yr old pitching a fit when she loses a level / life.

You are mistaking his definition of Portable as today's definition of Portable.

From Mark from the Article:

Imagine a future Xbox 360 that is actually a tablet you carry around. It will have more power than 360 does today, with technology like Kinect built right in. Imagine walking into a bar with some friends, propping it up on the table and playing games like Dance Central or Kinect Adventures anywhere you go.

"Then when you get home that same device will use technology like AirPlay or wireless HDMI to connect to your big screen, you’ll pick up a wireless controller, or use your phone as controller, to play games like Gears of War.

Re:donotwant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33794492)

Funny, because donotwant is exactly what us PC gamers said about consoles with their heavy DRM, limited input controllers, often dumbed-down gameplay, poor user modding community, and previous generation hardware.

Yet that's where the money went, and that's where the bulk of the development followed.

Never, ever underestimate the sales potential of dumbing things down. There's apparently no end to customer desire for ever more simplified gaming.

Follow the Money (1)

gravos (912628) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792196)

From TFA:

What we’re seeing with the success of Madden, GTA and Call of Duty on iPad and iPhone is that big brands and big marketing, combined with high production values, creates mindshare that lets them stand out in a crowd. It’s a natural evolution. When the audience size and expected sales justify a publisher like Ubisoft to spend $15m on a TV advertising campaign for their latest Assassin’s Creed mobile app, they will. This will happen.

You'd think this is a joke, but no. Game companies often spend more on advertising than product development.

And this is why I hate commercial games.

I hope not! (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792200)

Considering how locked down consoles can be, I'd rather not be pushed into having my options in mobile technology be so limited as to have no real open options. Considering how everything seems to be pushing that way (there's only a handful of devices, all effectively out of date, that allow you to gain control without using a local exploit,) I'm sure hard times are around the corner for those who like to own our devices.

I'm sure I'll be flamed a million ways to Sunday by people who like hacking through a bunch of BS protections to get back to basic levels of functionality, and a pile of people who will tell me to simply not buy it. Have fun encouraging lock down or being stuck years behind the times, or locked out due to insufficient anti-user DRM. Oh and the inevitable idiot who will use the MPAA/RIAA/BSA lines to argue against an anti-DRM position.

Re:I hope not! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792548)

I don't understand the locked down console argument. It's a benefit, it's a gaming machine which makes cheating vastly more difficult to the point it's not a problem you ever really encounter in online multiplayer games. Whilst it's theoretically possible to cheat with most modern consoles, I've yet to see anyone cheating, or at least, anyone cheating whose cheat gives them such an advantage that they stand out from being just another normal player.

If I wanted an open platform where anyone can cheat trivially and in a manner where if done right they simply can't be caught, then I'd go back to playing multiplayer on my PC.

For non-multiplayer gaming, or even non-gaming use, sure the PC is absolutely fantastic, and I agree, this is how I prefer my mobile platform as I don't do multiplayer gaming on my mobile, but the idea of opening up consoles so they can be as cheat ridden as PC multiplayer gaming is awful. I don't even see why you'd want to when you have a perfectly good open platform - the PC - available for just this sort of thing. I know there's the homebrew argument, and the backup argument but I've yet to see any worthwhile homebrew on consoles that isn't better served on the PC, and I've yet to meet anyone who backs up their discs. The only people I've known with modded consoles have done so purely for piracy- not that I'm against that anyway, they went the piracy route because online games didn't interest them, and because games were too expensive for them so that they couldn't have afforded to buy more than the handful they don't pirate anyway.

Consider offline multiplayer (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793098)

I don't understand the locked down console argument. It's a benefit, it's a gaming machine which makes cheating vastly more difficult to the point it's not a problem you ever really encounter in online multiplayer games.

The problem is that there's an industry tradition [slashdot.org] to conflate offline multiplayer [pineight.com] with a walled garden whose SDK agreement locks out developers working from home [wikipedia.org] . With few exceptions (such as Trine), PC games tend to support only LAN or online multiplayer, not two to four gamepads plugged into a home theater PC.

Hmm, where have I heard this? (1)

Superdarion (1286310) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792222)

Of course it will be more than just your game console; you can have your productivity apps, your documents, and your media collections on it as well

Where have I heard of this idea? Oh right, it's called a fucking laptop. When PC game developers stop removing single-computer multiplayer from their games, gaming laptops -which are usually great for working too- will be mobile gaming consoles. But oh noes, that would mean that more than one person can play with a single copy of their games! Stop those pirates!

Video game industry tradition (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793174)

When PC game developers stop removing single-computer multiplayer from their games

CronoCloud thinks your "when" is a "won't" [slashdot.org] . First you'll have to convince HDTV owners to use a nettop PC instead of a Roku box, Boxee Box, Apple TV, Google TV, or other walled-garden appliance to play video.

That'll be the day. (1)

incognito84 (903401) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792236)

I can see this happening for casual gamers as most of the games they play can already be played on a smaller, handheld device. Like you really need a PS3 to run Tetris, The Sims or Farmville.

For serious gamers? Unless by "mobile" you mean a VR device I can mount on my head/stick in my retina, I don't think I'm going to be switching over to any "mobile" device any time soon. Gaming is important enough to me that I'm content having it as the main attraction in my living room.

Nothing new. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792264)

'It feels like there's a great opportunity for game consoles to cease to be something you plug into the wall and rather become something you take with you. Of course it will be more than just your game console; you can have your productivity apps, your documents, and your media collections on it as well.'

That used to be a laptop.

future iphone support (1)

jlebrech (810586) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792266)

they are envisioning a multiple platform sdk, which is currently only available from Unity.

So... (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792356)

...it'll be a bit like a laptop, or a tablet then?

No really, I'll pass thanks. I'm actually quite content walking through the door after a long day at work, plonking myself in my comfy chair, picking up the controller, and going straight to playing games without having to fuck around for a little while.

Re:So... (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793008)

Not to mention the convenience of not having to switch off your gaming console because you have a call coming through or want to send a text message.

Smaller cost more (1)

LBt1st (709520) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792362)

This will never be the case simply because handheld system will never be as powerful as consoles of the same price. Smaller components cost more, the designs of the systems are harder to make, keeping it all cool and low-powered brings even more challenges. For the gamers that want the latest graphics and gizmos they're always going to go for the console over the handheld.

What's he really saying? (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792378)

Contrary to what some of the comments above seem to assume, I don't think he's quite saying that handheld consoles as we know them today will completely replace full-sized consoles as we know them today. Rather, from what I can make out, he's predicting that consoles will converge at some point where they are portable, but can also be connected up to the mains and your TV/sound system when you're playing at home. This might not be completely ludicrous. After all, I know a few people, including a few fairly serious gamers, who use a laptop as their main machine, but who connect it up to a proper monitory, mouse and keyboard when at home; except at the very top end, the performance difference between laptops and desktops these days is narrower than it used to be.

However, I can kind of understand the "do not want" sentiments above, given the way that many developers, particularly Japanese developers, seem to have fled in terror from the full-sized consoles this generation and focussed instead on the handhelds. So in many franchises these days - I'm thinking particularly here of the likes of Kingdom Hearts and Metal Gear Solid (as far as I can tell, MGS4 was an anomaly and the series is now PSP/3DS focussed), most of the games released this generation have felt like a step backwards from what we were getting when the PS2 ruled the roost. And then we get the likes of Blue Dragon and Valkyria Chronicles, where you get a decent game (awesome, in the case of VC) that debuts on a proper console, only for the developer to milk the franchise mercilessly via churned out handheld sequels that are a step down in terms of both graphics and gameplay.

Need For Speed with Nokia N8, HDMI output (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33792426)

Here's a nice example of mobile gaming setup that makes sense http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX2RB8jIm3k [youtube.com]

The phone works as a controller (orientation sensor + touch screen), while the graphics are outputted to TV via HDMI.

Re:Need For Speed with Nokia N8, HDMI output (1)

Datamonstar (845886) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792524)

Wow. And people still swoon for the iPhone. Really gotta wonder at that.

Re:Need For Speed with Nokia N8, HDMI output (1)

crunzh (1082841) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792746)

Have you tried the touch editions of symbian? They make even windows mobile look good... (I know the N8 use a new symbian, but thats barely on the market).

Has Mark Rein seen the 3DS specs? (1)

byuu (1455609) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792504)

In this new interview, engine boss Mark Rein says the developer envisions a future where all game devices are handhelds, with high-end processors inside

The 3DS is a 2011-2012 handheld with a 266MHz processor that's slower than my desktop computer was in the mid-90s. You can argue battery life, but the PSP from 2004 has a faster processor inside of it.

Nintendo may not be the entire handheld market, but they're a huge share of it. He must be talking really, really, really long-term. At this rate, Nintendo will need at least five generations more to match current PC hardware specs in portable form. So if PCs don't get faster by 2040, then he may be right.

Re:Has Mark Rein seen the 3DS specs? (1)

crunzh (1082841) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792752)

Or prehaps they will be outmanouvered by iphones, WP7 and android gaming phones..

Re:Has Mark Rein seen the 3DS specs? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793162)

Or prehaps they will be outmanouvered by iphones, WP7 and android gaming phones..

Not all genres work well on a touch screen, and not all gamers can afford $800 per year for yet another phone line or $600 for an unsubsidized handheld device. Let me know when an Android gaming device with a D-pad and buttons costs $300 or less.

PSP: 222 MHz. 3DS: 266 MHz. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793150)

The 3DS is a 2011-2012 handheld with a 266MHz processor that's slower than my desktop computer was in the mid-90s. You can argue battery life, but the PSP from 2004 has a faster processor inside of it.

The PSP has a 333 MHz MIPS CPU underclocked to 222 MHz. Later firmware versions expose a function to max the clock, but full speed operation interferes with Wi-Fi [gamedaily.com] .

So if PCs don't get faster by 2040, then he may be right.

How long have PCs been stuck at 2000 to 3000 MHz, just adding core after core?

Re:PSP: 222 MHz. 3DS: 266 MHz. (1)

byuu (1455609) | more than 3 years ago | (#33797294)

How long have PCs been stuck at 2000 to 3000 MHz, just adding core after core?

The clock speed is stagnant, but a 3GHz Netburst Pentium IV is about 40% of the speed of my 3GHz Core 2.

So... (1)

zero.kalvin (1231372) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792614)

There might be a chance that it will be an epic fail ?

Hooray (1)

GrumpySteen (1250194) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792870)

I look forward to playing Crysis 3 for 2-3 minutes before my battery dies!

Re:Hooray (1)

Eudial (590661) | more than 3 years ago | (#33792896)

That's almost enough time to render the top 3% of the first frame! How exciting, I see we're in some sort of shipping container, or bus maybe?

A brief perusal of the comments thus far (1)

ph0rk (118461) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793156)

Leads one to believe that the general assumption is that mobile devices won't become more powerful and efficient. I don't think that is the case - rather, they'll continue to get more powerful until they hit the "good enough" plateau that desktops have been in for the last several years (and have been in before).

It is very likely that when such a convergence happens you'll get as pretty a game on a big screen as you're used to, just driven by essentially mobile hardware.

How is this prediction much different than one that claims most computers will be mobile in the near future? Leaving aside whether or not you would be ok with that - the slashdot reader is hardly the most common consumer of computer products.

Dreams (1)

Artem Tashkinov (764309) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793282)

To me he's dreaming of putting modern console CPU/GPU into mobile phones - it's not going to happen soon. Not even in the next three years. But even then, playing a game on a big screen with a decent sound system seems like a much more enjoyable experience than tiny, unhandy controls and shitty sound.

more of a case of people going back to the PC (1)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793558)

and being tired of bad console quality, being jerked around by vendor lock-in, and stifled games, because of the limited hardware.

Re:more of a case of people going back to the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33794182)

As opposed to the PC where you have unlimited hardware

obligatory (1)

crow5599 (994334) | more than 3 years ago | (#33793976)

Unrealistic.

It is a good prediction. (1)

paladinsama (1831732) | more than 3 years ago | (#33795156)

Why most of the people commenting on this thread lack vision or are so obtuse?

"spending half your fingers holding the thing? Crappy sound or at best stereo headphone speaker sound? 3-5 inch screens?"

"donotwant tag desired! We love to play our games on our consoles, with a huge TV"

"playing a game on a big screen with a decent sound system seems like a much more enjoyable experience than tiny, unhandy controls and shitty sound."

What would limit a 2020s super powered mobile device to be connected through HDMI (or something newer) to a 7680 x 4320 52 inch screen and then use 4 additional wireless controllers to turn this hand-held into a complete 4-player console?

Already there (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 3 years ago | (#33795410)

Make me remember Game Gripper [zomgitscj.com] . Take a powerful enough cellphone, put there a bunch of games and console emulators (playstation, n64, mame, etc), and with this layer over the keyboard you have a portable gaming console (and a cellphone, gps, camera, media player and so on).

I think some are selling this short (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 3 years ago | (#33795544)

Between the greasy fingers and small screens comments, I think many are not paying attention to the current trends with the higher end smart phones, several android devices already have hdmi out, nearly all have the capability to hook up bluetooth devices and 3d chips are now the standard and storage density keeps increasing. If you throw in "cloud" based gaming its not very far fetched to see a time when your handheld can be used as a regular console. As long as the capabilities are there I'm all for it. Streaming games and content seem to be the direction all the major consoles are taking so why not have them use a device that can go anywhere with you? It really doesnt take much imagination to see this as reality, there are already dual core tablets that are far more powerful cpu wise as the 360 or PS3, its only a matter of time until the gpu capability catches up.

Useless prediction (1)

dilvish_the_damned (167205) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796030)

This is foolish. It won't happen due to one constant; The temperature at which people say "ouch!". Whatever power you pack into a handheld device, there will always be a market for 20 of them stuffed in a box cooled by fans or pumps.

lol, no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33796176)

only problem with this nifty future is that i'm gonna look like a fuckin' dick in the waiting room at the doctors office playing COD 19 on a cell phone with a 56" screen.

Epic games... (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796466)

the same people who predicted that the merging of gpu and cpu would happen before 2003. These doofuses can't get anything right.

Future isn't iOS (1)

soupforare (542403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33796804)

Not until apple pulls their head out their ass and gives us some hardware controls, or bluetooth compatibility with controllers or something. Trying to play DUCK NUCKAM on the ipad is a joke. Most games I've tried seem to be unless it's press to play or point and drag casual game.
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