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Microsoft Unveils Windows Phone 7 Lineup

CmdrTaco posted about 4 years ago | from the we-can-do-it-too dept.

Microsoft 391

adeelarshad82 writes "Microsoft officially unveiled its Windows Phone 7 mobile operating system, announcing that it will be available on a total of five devices in the US. Windows Phone 7 handsets from AT&T and T-Mobile will begin shipping in November, while devices from Sprint and Verizon will be available next year. In all, Microsoft announced nine Windows Phone 7 phones, the remainder of which will be available in Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Singapore, and Australia. It will debut in some European markets on Oct. 21. While early signs are encouraging for Windows Phone 7, it is being deemed as do or die for the future of Microsoft's business."

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Seriously? (2, Informative)

jlechem (613317) | about 4 years ago | (#33860692)

So they really expect to take over the market share that RIM/Apple/Android have over the cellphone industry? From what I've read it's a step forward for the windows mobile OS but it's not going to tear anything up. And this from a .net developer who loves his Droid X.

Re:Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860748)

I think that their given their previous try with Kin that this actually gives them a larger market share.

Re:Seriously? (4, Insightful)

mark72005 (1233572) | about 4 years ago | (#33860912)

Kin was never as great of an abomination as Windows Phone was.

Even if MSFT has a basically credible mobile phone OS, what do they have to draw people away from Apple, Android, or Blackberry?

Re:Seriously? (4, Informative)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33860996)

what do they have to draw people away from Apple, Android, or Blackberry?

XBox Live integration

Windows Live integration

Office integration

Free "sync to cloud" and "find my phone"


Zune software is much better on Windows than iTunes

Works better with Windows (which is what most people use ... iPhone works better with OS X, so I don't think those people are the target)

I use iPhone on Windows, and I'm very much looking forward to being able to uninstall iTunes and never have to fire up that piece of crap again. And the ZunePass rocks (it's a great deal), and that too is enticing for me.

For business types (not me), the Office integration might be a draw. I can see that.

Re:Seriously? (-1, Troll)

alta (1263) | about 4 years ago | (#33861118)

Drink the koolaid much? ;)

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Re:Seriously? (1, Flamebait)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33861192)

How is that simple reply "kool-aid" (or even a 'troll'?? Excuse me? What idiot moderated that simple factual list a 'troll'??)

You ask what it offered. I listed what it offered. If it means nothing to you, then it's not a phone for you. If it does, then it might be, and you can check it out.

Either way, not sure why the snarky comment or the troll-mod.

I could give just as good a list for both iOS (which I use) and Android (which a friend uses)... would those be trolls or kool-aid too??

Re:Seriously? (1, Interesting)

KDR_11k (778916) | about 4 years ago | (#33861208)

So basically leveraging all their existing monopolies. Wonder when and how much the EU will fine them?

Re:Seriously? (3, Interesting)

shadowrat (1069614) | about 4 years ago | (#33861036)

They have XBox Live integration. I don't really understand it because i never got into live, but i have friends who love their xboxes dearly. They would do just about anything to have a phone that lets them see their buddies' achievements not to mention allow them to get new achievements. Some of them are even willing to buy out their iphone contracts to move to windows 7 phone.

That "killer" feature strikes me as something of a double edged sword though. Most analysts think a phone platform has to win enterprise adoption to really be successful, but what CTO for a large business is going to see xbox live integration as a selling point? Sure it's also got active sync and great exchange integration, but so does blackberry.

personally, i'd be interested in getting a device if there is an analog to the ipod touch (something i also wish existed for android, and no, i don't consider the weird chinese android devices an option). afaik the zune HD is not win 7 phone, yet. I have no interest in breaking my current phone contract though.

Re:Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860784)

Yes, yes they do.

Re:Seriously? (3, Interesting)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 4 years ago | (#33860802)

I don't think they're shooting as much for marketshare, as they are to enforce licensing on everyone who is not Apple (and Apple while they're at it). IF they can't sell phones, they'll still make money off of the mobile industry (see also their wee lawsuit).

Re:Seriously? (4, Interesting)

tekiegreg (674773) | about 4 years ago | (#33860834)

Tend to agree. As a devoted .NET developer who recently got a droid and (via third party app) watched my droid sync up with my office Exchange Server nearly instantly. I'd been hanging on to my Windows Mobile 6.1 for quite some time, but moving from that to Droid was like taking 20 steps ahead in technology.

Mind you Droid is not without a few quirks,but the differences are phenomenal. Droid is clearly the better platform.

Re:Seriously? (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | about 4 years ago | (#33861210)

Mind you Droid is not without a few quirks,but the differences are phenomenal. Droid is clearly the better platform.

Pedantic-Man(tm) says, "Droid is not a platform. Droid is a brand from Motorola. Android is the platform." :)

Re:Seriously? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861086)

Who said it was going to take over? All it has to do is get back what WinMo6 had, really.

Choice is a good thing.

Do or die? (3, Insightful)

overshoot (39700) | about 4 years ago | (#33860706)

Give me a break. Microsoft hasn't been dependent on first-mover advantage since the 80s.

If they don't get traction with 7, they can do 8. Or buy Nokia or RIM out of couch-cushion change. Or several dozen other ways to buy into the market that I haven't thought of but I'm sure someone in Redmond has, singly or in combination.

Re:Do or die? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860762)

@overshoot #microsoft wants to license #win7pos, buying #nokia or #rim will not help them

Re:Do or die? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860830)

/. != @twitter

Re:Do or die? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860962)

Mark it as off topic and move along. Don't feed the idiot.

Re:Do or die? (5, Interesting)

tokul (682258) | about 4 years ago | (#33860850)

Or buy Nokia or RIM out of couch-cushion change

They already bought Danger Incorporated. If they buy RIM and repeat T-Mobile Sidekick disaster, PHBs should learn something about MS.

Re:Do or die? (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | about 4 years ago | (#33861250)

They already bought Danger Incorporated. If they buy RIM and repeat T-Mobile Sidekick disaster, PHBs should learn something about MS.

If PHBs could learn, they wouldn't be PH.

Re:Do or die? (5, Interesting)

Anon-Admin (443764) | about 4 years ago | (#33861068)

Dude, they will return to 80's tactics.

#1) Put out an "Update" that breaks connectivity between the desktop and the Iphone and Droid Phone.
#2) When the two fix the phone to make it work again do number 1
#3) repeat #1-#2 several times.
#4) Release WP8 pointing out that there phone never has problems communicating with your desktop
#5) .......

Re:Do or die? (1)

ocularsinister (774024) | about 4 years ago | (#33861348)

They may well try that, but I doubt it'll work so well. Unlike the 80s, computers and phones are always on, always networked. To patch WordPerfect to run on the latest bastardization of MS-DOS required manufacturing and distributing disks; to patch the iPhone and Android requires an over-the net update that could be ready in less than a week. An inconvenience, perhaps. A show stopper? Not so sure. They also run the risk of tainting Windows as being the source for the problem ("It still works with my iPad!", "No problems with Ubuntu"...).

Before you scoff, Try it (5, Interesting)

ChicagoDave (644806) | about 4 years ago | (#33860726)

I've played with a developer phone in the last month and I'm currently an iPhone user. I have to say I think they're on to something. I like the iPhone, but I'm probably going to switch to WP7 in November. The integration between app and data is an order of magnitude higher than any other phone out there.

Re:Before you scoff, Try it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860792)

I went to a demonstration and preview a couple months back. The hardware wasn't available back then, but I did leave there very excited about what they were showing us on emulators and the development tools (Eclipse is the worst, I would love to develop in VS for my mobile). Overall my thoughts are still the same, it'd be great if anybody wanted it.

Re:Before you scoff, Try it (3, Insightful)

geoffrobinson (109879) | about 4 years ago | (#33860836)

Maybe true. Probably a case of too little too late. They had numerous years to get it together.

They can only follow, which is fine. But they had plenty of chances to lead.

Re:Before you scoff, Try it (1)

Real1tyCzech (997498) | about 4 years ago | (#33861186)

I've never understood this philosophy of "too little too late" in a market that auto-renews every two years for nearly all of it's customers. People haven't stopped buying phones. It hasn't even slowed. The market isn't saturated, nor is it stagnant.

I see this argument from a lot of the same people comparing the KIN to WP7... One is a device, the other is a platform. They both make about zero sense.

As long as I have to pay $99 (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860842)

... to apps I develop on my own phone, I'm out.

And I really, really wanted one of these things, too. Maybe they'll come around and change their policy, but until then, I'm sticking with my dumbphone.

Re:As long as I have to pay $99 (3, Informative)

the_humeister (922869) | about 4 years ago | (#33861014)

Or you can get an Android phone. My Aria, despite the lack of "unknown sources" option, can still load other apps via the SDK. And the SDK is free too.

I've tried the Android SDK (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861104)

I prefer the Microsoft tools. That's not to say I wouldn't get an Android if I had to pick a smartphone, but .NET development is just easier (and the tools are just better) than what Google offers.

(I program in both Java and C# for a living, so it's not an issue of familiarity, just an honest preference)

Re:As long as I have to pay $99 (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861220)

The $99 fee is the annual Marketplace registration fee. To skip the market: Deploying XAP Files to Windows Phone 7 [] .

Re:As long as I have to pay $99 (1)

tepples (727027) | about 4 years ago | (#33861352)

The $99 fee is the annual Marketplace registration fee. To skip the market:

But how long will Microsoft let end users skip the market before clamping down? Consider XNA Creators Club from the same company, which requires a $99 per year fee just to run homemade games on your own console.

Re:Before you scoff, Try it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861154)

You don't get it do you. It's my data I don't want it 'integrated' (your quaint word for 'locked down') with MS applications.

Re:Before you scoff, Try it (3, Interesting)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 4 years ago | (#33861264)

The problem is that MS is entering into a very crowded market with few advantages. They can't rely on existing WinMo users because more of them are business users which is different from the consumer focused Windows Phone 7. It's pretty much surrendering the business crowd to Blackberry in that regard. It seems like a decent, solid OS but it starts out way behind Apple and Android. There also isn't any features that entices most people to get it. There are not many apps which uses the same walled garden approach as Apple. As with anything new (especially MS), I advise people to wait after the 1st gen for them to work out the kinks.

Re:Before you scoff, Try it (2, Interesting)

farnsworth (558449) | about 4 years ago | (#33861322)

I was on a flight next to someone with an early prototype, and it does indeed look like a nice UI. I was a little baffled by the lack of UI labels, but the guy seemed to have no problem getting around.

The apps that I saw looked solid. But, on the other hand I'm curious about how well the browser is going to work. It ships with something like IE7 AFAIK, and it seems like it's not going to be a great experience. Are sites really going to have a mobile-webkit version and a mobile-ie version of their content? That seems crazy to me, but I'm looking forward to seeing how it will work out. Scanning the Engadget coverage of the announcement, it looks like they didn't even mention the browser, let alone demo it.

Gamers rejoice, they launched with Tetris! (2, Interesting)

Orga (1720130) | about 4 years ago | (#33860730)

Electronics Arts also announced the first wave of games coming to Windows Phone 7, including "Need for Speed Undercover," "Tetris," and "The Sims 3." Tetris? That's a launch title? Ouch. Need for speed came preinstaleld on my droid, much to my annoyance. Wonder how much bloatware MS is going to get crammed in their OS.

Re:Gamers rejoice, they launched with Tetris! (1)

Pojut (1027544) | about 4 years ago | (#33861100)

Wonder how much bloatware MS is going to get crammed in their OS

I'd imagine there will be a general baseline, but the carrier will likely have a huge affect on this (as they already do)

Re:Gamers rejoice, they launched with Tetris! (1)

linumax (910946) | about 4 years ago | (#33861138)

Electronics Arts also announced the first wave of games coming to Windows Phone 7, including "Need for Speed Undercover," "Tetris," and "The Sims 3." Tetris? That's a launch title? Ouch. Need for speed came preinstaleld on my droid, much to my annoyance. Wonder how much bloatware MS is going to get crammed in their OS.

What's wrong with Tetris? It's one of the most popular games out there and it has been for a very long time. Also, I think it's up to carriers to "cram" bloatware into the phones. Similar to Android and Google, this is not much under MS's control.

Image (1)

LBArrettAnderson (655246) | about 4 years ago | (#33860740)

Microsoft has been making pretty awesome products lately. I'm afraid, though, that many of them are failing because of their image, and in fact this is the very reason that I'm not even going to consider getting a Windows Phone 7 in the near future. Even if it is a better underlying platform than Android, the community will be what makes or breaks it, and to the community, Microsoft just isn't cool enough anymore.

Re:Image (5, Funny)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 4 years ago | (#33860820)

Care to name any of those awesome products?

The red ring of death generator AKA XBOX 360?

Re:Image (1, Insightful)

LBArrettAnderson (655246) | about 4 years ago | (#33860896)

Windows 7. And yes, XBOX 360. And believe it or not, IE9 has some really awesome stuff. Office 2010

Maybe not recent, but awesome, particularly with recent updates:
C#, Visual Studio

Re:Image (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861038)

Even Exchange 2010 has some great architecture upgrades. MS is definitely comng along.

If I may add (1)

benjymouse (756774) | about 4 years ago | (#33861148)

Some other rather solid MS products (if a little developer oriented):

  • PowerShell (esp. version 2 with remoting, jobs etc).
  • Visual Studio 2010
  • SharePoint 2010 (users loved 2007, developers hated it. 2010 is solid).
  • Silverlight
  • Expression suite, esp. Blend
  • C# 4 (rather cool with dynamic types)

Re:If I may add (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 4 years ago | (#33861326)

I can't believe the MS folks are all amazed by powershell. Finally catching up to 30 years ago is not that impressive.

Re:Image (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861232)

And despite the scoffing I will defend the Zune as an excellent product. I'd like anybody that has actually used a Zune to point out anything about it that's actually deficient compared to the competition. The Now Playing playlist is better than the iPod's On The Go, especially since they crippled that functionality in iOS. The Zune's DAC is top-of-the-line. The UI makes the iPod Classic's UI look last century. And Zune Pass is an excellent service for music lovers. The only deficiency: Hard drive models have vanished.

Just because it's not all over the place doesn't make it a bad product. That's a fact fans of non-Microsoft OSes should know well.

Re:Image (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 4 years ago | (#33861316)

First of all Windows 7 is pretty good only because Vista sucked so hard. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. Second MS will never profit from Xbox hardware as they are in the hole for billions launching it. All MS did was buy marketshare. The huge amount of repairs also attests to whether you can call Xbox "a success".

Re:Image (0)

nine-times (778537) | about 4 years ago | (#33860956)

Yeah, I'm not a Microsoft fan, but Windows 7 is pretty decent. It doesn't seem spectacular to me, and sometimes when I see people trying to hype it I suspect it's astroturfing, but it is fairly solid and fast and the UI is improved. Office 2010 is also very good. I wish I could get Outlook 2010 on other platforms, but alas Outlook 2011 for Mac doesn't seem to be as good.

Re:Image (1)

maxume (22995) | about 4 years ago | (#33860992)

If I were an astroturfer, one of the things I would do to try to hide it would be to talk about behaviors I thought made other people astroturfers.

MS Garbage Products: Xbox,Kin,Bing,... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860986)

Yeah, Windows 7 doesn't suck as much as Vista.

Golf clap Microsoft...

And the rest of Microsoft's products?

The biggest piece of garbage console in history, the jet engine loud, RRoD plagued, disc scratching/destroying Xbox 360 and its wimpy graphics

The dead on arrival Kin

The we can't even pay people to use search engine Bing

Golly? Wonder why Microsoft just got downgraded and their stock has been dead in the water for the past decade with everyone calling for the firing of Ballmer?

They even managed to screw up the latest Visual Studio. Boggle.

Re:MS Garbage Products: Xbox,Kin,Bing,... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861052)

Your example of Bing is precisely my point. Bing is an awesome search engine. Have you ever used it? Like I said, it's all about image.

Actually, your example of Windows 7 also proves my point. Vista wasn't even that bad. I loved it. Windows 7 made some minor improvements, but the real reason Windows 7 is succeeding? Image.

Kin - yes.

Not sure why everyone thinks the Xbox 360 was a failure. Some people had hardware issues -- oh no.

They screwed up Visual Studio 2010? News to me.

Re:MS Garbage Products: Xbox,Kin,Bing,... (4, Interesting)

RingBus (1912660) | about 4 years ago | (#33861172)

"Some people had hardware issues -- oh no"

A 65 percent failure rate on a piece of consumer hardware?

A 1 percent failure rate would be insane. That would be 1 out of every 100 consoles consistently failed. Well made consoles like the PS3, Wii, PS2, GameCube have failure rates in the sub .1 percent range.

The Xbox 360 is a piece of garbage. Microsoft knew it was defective before they rushed it out the door back in 2005 and did nothing to fix the inherent design defects.

Microsoft deserves the hate of gamers and the console world. They are reaping what they sowed. The console world has prided itself that it was gaming that just worked. You plugged your new console in at the start of a generation and it kept working to the end of the generation. Microsoft' piece of garbage Xbox 360 made a mockery of that concept.

Re:MS Garbage Products: Xbox,Kin,Bing,... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861244)

"A 65 percent failure rate on a piece of consumer hardware?"


"Well made consoles like the PS3, Wii, PS2, GameCube have failure rates in the sub .1 percent range."


Yes, it's higher than those others, but it is *not* the majority, and those others (particularly PS3) are *not* that low.

Xbox 360 is bad even by MS standards (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861238)

Bing, Zune, Kin are fairly typical Microsoft junk products. Forgettable and kind funny in a sad way.

The Xbox 360 really is such a piece of shit that it really is shocking even by Microsoft standards. It must be nice to work at Microsoft knowing that no matter how bad your product sucks it won't come close to the stinking pile of fail that the Xbox 360 was.

Re:MS Garbage Products: Xbox,Kin,Bing,... (1)

nschubach (922175) | about 4 years ago | (#33861278)

30-40% is "some"?

I'll admit, I'm no fan of Windows 7 (I actually bought Pro edition for my gaming PC) but the only thing Microsoft proved with the 360 is that gamers will buy crap if you put a headset and gamer scores on it. While the controller is a neat setup (I had a N-64 "Super Pad 64" that was pretty much a dead ringer for the 360 left side and I loved it) you cannot still be oblivious to the fact that more than "some" of the 360s were terrible build quality.

Am I invited to the party? (1)

theskipper (461997) | about 4 years ago | (#33860746)

Sure Steve. Except it was last weekend.

A real blast from what I hear.

I guess he reads the minimsft blog (3, Informative)

tomhudson (43916) | about 4 years ago | (#33860750) []

mini's been saying the same thing - that WP7 is the product that will hopefully tie Microsoft together (but comments are weighing heavily towards the "or else" scenario)

And mainly: it's a very poor matter of timing for a break-up. We're about to have a mobile phone come out that actually binds the companies divisions far closer than ever before: Office, Windows Live, Xbox Live, Bing, and Dev Div: this damn thing is the antidote for break-up talk. WP7 wouldn't be impossible to create with a break-up, but it'd be exceptionally difficult. WP7 is pulling together huge resources that none of our direct competitors have.

KIN3 FTW !!!

-- Barbie

So... (2, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 4 years ago | (#33860790)

Where is cut and paste and multitasking?

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft can get any buzz with this. It has to be better than IOS, Android, and WebOS. It is only available in the US on AT&T and maybe TMobile. So on AT&T will people buy it over the iPhone? Will AT&T push it much? TMobile is the smallest carrier but they are a good carrier. Will they push it over Android since they have a long record with Android and the G2 has just launched?
Microsoft is just in a very bad position. It isn't like the XBox where they came from nothing. They have a product that for the most part is boring and have been beaten up by both Apple and Android in this market.
Unless WP7 is just super great it will be blah... Or to put it better it will be the Next of Kin.

Re:So... (1)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33860866)

iPhone survived 3 years without cut and paste. It's coming to WP7 just a few months after shipping (in early 2011). And it currently multi-tasks much like iOS does right now (mostly "fast app switching"). And a Verzion version is coming early next year. And it'll be available on Sprint too.

MS has their work cut out for them. But the product is compelling already. It'll be interesting to see if they can catch up, and how much this pushes the others in the space to innovate and improve.

Re:So... (2, Insightful)

Nameisyoung007 (1009935) | about 4 years ago | (#33860892)

Copy Paste is slated to come out in an update this January. (This was in their version of a 'one more thing' at the end of the keynote)

Re:So... (1, Insightful)

Sancho (17056) | about 4 years ago | (#33861010)

Where is cut and paste and multitasking?

Just about the only time I use copy/paste on my phone is during setup, when I need to input my long, pseudorandom WPA key. It is certainly very useful during this time. Otherwise, in practice, I just don't use it very much.

Looking forward to it (-1)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33860798)

I'm under contract now, but in 18 months or so, I'm hoping to be able to switch.

ANYTHING to get rid of that piece of crap known as the iTunes software. Ugh.

Besides, I loved the Zune and the ZunePass is a fantastic deal. Add that to XBox live integration, integration with Windows live services, and all the rest, and WP7 really seems targeted right at me. And hopefully in the next 18 months, they'll have a chance to catch up, feature-wise and apps-wise, so I won't have to give up much (other than the frustrating iTunes experience).

I can't wait until my Win7 PC is Apple-free!

Re:Looking forward to it (-1, Troll)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 4 years ago | (#33860860)

So how much did you get for that post?

It reads like marketing department copy.

Re:Looking forward to it (0, Redundant)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33860922)

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's just me (not in any way associated with Microsoft except through using Win7 at work and at home) being honest about my feelings.

I loved the iPhone for a while. But iTunes has got to be one of the worst, most bloated, most annoying applications I've ever loaded on my PC (and that's saying something). I can't stand it. It sucks. Hard. And the iPhone seems to have gotten a little long in the tooth, falling behind Android in many areas, feeling very rigid and "controlled", with few choices.

I hope WP7 is successful, and that MS isn't brain-dead about it, and updates it agressively and listens to feedback and gets the apps it needs.

If WP7 flops, I'll go android for my next phone. But right now, my first choice would be WP7. I like what it has to offer... not as "wild west" as Android (with its mess of models and versions), and not as fascist and controlled as iOS (One True Way, One True Phone, Apple's Way Or The Highway). It seems to be a nice middle-ground, with an innovative UI and concept, very cloud-centric, and integration with things I actually use (like Mac OS X users will almost always prefer the iPhone due to the integration with what THEY use).

Why not go straight to Android? (3, Interesting)

guidryp (702488) | about 4 years ago | (#33860964)

"And the iPhone seems to have gotten a little long in the tooth, falling behind Android in many areas, feeling very rigid and "controlled", with few choices."

I don't know if you haven't really read anything about WP7, but it is cloning the Old iPhone, no "cut n' Past", no real multi-tasking, no flash, no side loading applications.

If iPhone "rigid and controlled" is bothering you, it won't change much in WP7, why not go to Android. What do you think WP7 will give you that Android won't?

Re:Why not go straight to Android? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861076)

Because, he's getting paid to spout off how Android is "The Evil Wild West" and how Microsoft is the Sheriff (who does no wrong) that will bring about order and tranquility.

Re:Why not go straight to Android? (0, Flamebait)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33861166)

Wrong (as in, not even close)... but if it comforts you or makes you feel better to believe that, I certainly can't stop you.

Re:Why not go straight to Android? (0)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33861078)

WP7 will be somewhat less rigid and controlled than iPhone (starting with the fact that there are multiple form-factors for hardware, and multiple carriers). It's in between iOS and Android. iOS is too controlled, and Android is too out-of-control.

And what do I get in WP7 that I don't in Android?

ZunePass. XBox Live Integration. Office integration. A better UI and UI concept (imho).

What will I give up in WP7 with respect to Android? Well, right now a lot of things. LOTS of apps. Multi-tasking. cut-n-paste.

But I'm not going to be buying "right now". When I am, in a year-to-18-months, I'll re-assess. But I like what I see in WP7 right now. A lot. I hope it lives up to the promise. We'll see. But chances are my next phone will be a WP7 phone, and if not, it'll be an Android phone. I've likely bought my last iPhone.

Re:Why not go straight to Android? (1)

guidryp (702488) | about 4 years ago | (#33861240)

ZunePass. XBox Live Integration. Office integration. A better UI and UI concept (imho).

I guess that will matter to Microsoft fans. But I don't have Xbox, don't want to rent music and don't actually want a "smartphone".

But I do pay attention to technology, and I find it amusing to watch each new release of phones where everyone goes all gaga over a phone. "Ooooh look, square boxes for an interface, I must have it!!!".

I don't have a smartphone, they just seem like a huge waste of money to me.

Re:Why not go straight to Android? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 4 years ago | (#33861356)

1. renting music is lame
2. I have a PS3.
3. I use open office.

Re:Looking forward to it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861002)

Hah, it really does.

That said, Microsoft does have a thing for doing integration really well. The problem is, then you are stuck with it. You can't mix and match the best products, tools for the job, or prices.

In the short term, it looks great; in the long term, you get screwed.

Re:Looking forward to it (0, Redundant)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33861338)

They're way better at incorporating other 3rd parties into their ecosystem than Apple, and it's "all Apple Lock-in"...

Again, MS is sort of a happy medium between iOS and Android.

Re:Looking forward to it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861142)

Claiming that anyone who doesn't hate MS must then be being paid by them is like you leftoids also claiming that anyone on the political right must be racists. As if one couldn't possibly have a preference for something that you don't. It makes you sound like the retards that you are, and no one's buying it.

No, it is not do or die (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 4 years ago | (#33860800)

MS still controls the desktop, and lots of high end business market. That is a very solid, very profitable market. Then of course there's their office suite, game console, and so on. Having a strong mobile market would do nothing but help them for sure, but if you think they have to "do it or die" you've got your head in the sand. MS is doing just fine.

Re:No, it is not do or die (2, Insightful)

Old97 (1341297) | about 4 years ago | (#33861302)

It's do or die in the mobile space. MS is very successful in the corporate world, but they haven't gotten much traction with consumers since XBOX in 2001. In order to continue growing and thriving Microsoft needs to create or discover some new markets. PCs on desktops in the corporate world is not a growth area - in fact it is likely to grow more slowly than corporate employment. On the server side MS has done pretty well, but IBM, Oracle and SAP are pretty tough and MS is unlikely to be more than a viable competitor. MS needs to start thinking about their core competencies - like marketing to OEMs and companies - and try to invent some new opportunities with them. Its too late to change their culture and try to become Apple, Google or Facebook.

copy / paste in 2011? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860832)

...and no copy / paste until 2011 because "no one uses it". It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Why they don't go with the far more honest line of "we needed to get this out by the holiday shopping season, so here it is".

All flash, no function.

slide-out speakers? (4, Funny)

demonbug (309515) | about 4 years ago | (#33860840)

Wow. Just... wow. The HTC surround actually has a slide-out speaker (from Yamaha!)? I can't think of anything I want less in a cell phone. Maybe they should come out with an HTC ButteredPopcorn with a slide-out popcorn popper so I have something to snack on while reading all the (apparently deserved) MS-bashing around these phones.

Re:slide-out speakers? (-1)

SpryGuy (206254) | about 4 years ago | (#33860948)

Um, so? Obviously that model isn't for you. It's for people who want to listen to music and watch TV and Movies and videos on their phone.

That's the beauty of it though... multiple models of hardware that target different audiences, and so brands can differentiate, but with enough consistency that if you know how to use one, you know how to use them all, and OS upgrades will be more or less in sync across manufacturers and models. Much better than the "One Size Fits All" of the iPhone, or the unregulated wild-west of the Andriod world (though of the two, I'd definitely prefer Android to iOS... which makes me wonder why the hell I have an iPhone right now. Oh yeah. Infamous Apple "lock-in", combined with AT&T contract. Going to have to bust out of this rat-trap eventually...)

Re:slide-out speakers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860968)

I thought this was pretty cool actually. Now if they would only make some that also have a hidden gamepad and buttons that slide out, THEN they'd be on to something. Playing certain genres of games using only a touch screen just doesn't work sometimes, and it never will until they provide a real controller.

missing some features (5, Interesting)

sr8outtalotech (1167835) | about 4 years ago | (#33860878)

I saw a demonstration of Windows 7 Mobile last week. Microsoft decided to remove the VPN client and remote desktop features that were available in previous versions of Windows Mobile. But the award for lamest concept by a large margin was replacing cut and paste with auto-complete. That didn't go over to well during the Excel Viewer demonstration where people were asking how you transferred formulas from one cell to another.

Re:missing some features (2, Informative)

idlewire (1901130) | about 4 years ago | (#33861046)

According to one of TFA: "Copy and paste functionality will be available as an update in early 2011." (Apparently this functionality is also missing in the Slashdot reply box! Who knew!) In any case, it is ridiculous that the phones will not have this functionality right from the start.

Re:missing some features (1)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | about 4 years ago | (#33861098)

Of course I tried this on my Android phone (2.2) running Quick Office and it won't let me copy and paste either - even though all other apps seem to support this...

thils is g0atsex (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33860904)

used to. SHIT ON obtain a copy of AT&T and Berkeley Trying to dissect

Never Buy A Windows Mobile Device (3, Insightful)

ludomancer (921940) | about 4 years ago | (#33860930)

Please take it from my lengthy, extremely painful, dissatisfied experience. Never buy a Windows Mobile phone. Ever. I don't care WHAT they might have done to this version of the software, I can guarantee you it will not work a fraction as well as any alternatives.

I own an HTC Mogul PPC6800. I have never experienced a product so poor, so lacking in quality and completely failing to fulfill its most primary functions. Every day I have to use it I wonder to myself how it was even released. I have never seen such a poor product even be allowed to enter consumer hands in exchange for money. It is just that bad.

I felt this would be a good topic with which to share that experience.

Re:Never Buy A Windows Mobile Device (5, Insightful)

kindbud (90044) | about 4 years ago | (#33861108)

But you didn't share any experience. You merely asserted it was a very poor product, without naming any reasons why you thought so.

Re:Never Buy A Windows Mobile Device (1)

thawat (1919562) | about 4 years ago | (#33861332)

It would be unfair to say that "the old one sucked, so the new one must too". Neither have you given any reasons to substantiate / support your claim, nor have you tried to point out known/possible deficiencies in the new version. Instead of merely saying that you wanted to "share that experience", actually sharing that experience might have been a tad more useful.

Re:Never Buy A Windows Mobile Device (1)

gmurray (927668) | about 4 years ago | (#33861358)

I agree with you about earlier versions of windows mobile being a previous Sprint PPC6700 and AT&T tilt user. They appealed to me because they were supremely easy to develop for and were much more like having a computer in your pocket than anything else at the time. Earlier versions of windows mobile were very very crap though, and I can't agree more with you on this count.

But using your experiences with WM6/6.5 and earlier to make any kind of assumption about Windows Phone 7 is like assuming you wont like the XBOX 360 because you don't like Windows ME. Other than the OS kernel I don't there is many similarities in the codebase between WP7 and earlier versions, its been designed from the ground up to be a different animal, and probably bears more resemblence to the Zune or XBox codebase than to the Windows Mobile codebase.

I like everything I hear about this new platform, but I'm not exceedingly impartial, as I'm a big fan of Silverlight and other aspects of WP7s development environment. I think its only problem, currently, is the head start the other platforms have had, and the bad taste left in everyones mouths by Kin and WM6.5 and earlier. But, personally, I think they've done enough to distance WP7 from those platforms. Lets see how it goes!

laptops ain't going away soon (1)

Khashishi (775369) | about 4 years ago | (#33860944)

when you can type up a report and run a spreadsheet (comfortably!) on a phone, then it's time to worry.

holding hands with the box (1)

idlewire (1901130) | about 4 years ago | (#33860984)

I'm not really all that much "into" phones -- I use them for occasional note-taking, voice recording, and of course texting and talking. I don't care about Facebook or Twitter integration. The one thing I do care about with the new phones here is the Xbox Live integration. As a gamer who has been bitten by the "Achievement Points" bug (which I totally defend and feel no shame over, but that's another post), I look forward to playing portable games that can affect my Gamerscore, or that integrate in some way with the major console titles. This is the deal-maker for me. I'm not sure it will be for others (Games For Windows Live doesn't seem all that popular).

Re:holding hands with the box (0, Offtopic)

nschubach (922175) | about 4 years ago | (#33861150)

As a co-op gamer who hates achievements/trophies I have to say: "I hate you!"

I can't get away from my friends who took it as a personal masturbation post to point out how they are "better" because they have a higher trophy/gamerscore count... and they can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that I don't care. It's getting so annoying that I'm debating completely ignoring them and removing them from my friends list, but I hate to have to remove them to get them to shut up about the stupid things because I like cooperative games opposed to competitive games and it sucks playing them alone.

Here is my opinion (4, Interesting)

Yuioup (452151) | about 4 years ago | (#33860998)

My problem with Microsoft is that they insist on programming everything in-house and lock you in to in-house networks and in-house apps. I prefer a rich ecosystem like the iPhone and Android where people can make their own apps and have them integrate into your social networking life.

Microsoft - once again - seems to want to make all your decisions for you and shove all their products down your throat.

I seriously wonder how many Microsofties will eat their company's dogfood and geniunely love it.


Re:Here is my opinion (2, Interesting)

phantomfive (622387) | about 4 years ago | (#33861272)

I have a few Facebook friends who work at Microsoft and are excited about the Windows 7 phone. They haven't explained to me why, though. Microsoft seems to have done a better job marketing it within the company than without. I'm willing to bet this guy [] works with Microsoft. 'The integration between app and data' (in other words it can open excel documents) has been the only reason to ever buy a Windows Mobile phone, so that's not exactly a giant leap forward.

Re:Here is my opinion (1)

rAiNsT0rm (877553) | about 4 years ago | (#33861312)

I actually disagree a bit with you... Apple and MS both have these in-built proclivities and they both are very limiting and self-serving, where they differ is that MS tends to be much less subtle about it and the obtrusiveness is what actually makes them seem more annoying. Apple does the same thing but much more slyly so folks don't notice or get as upset about it. Android is too new to really have an emerging theme on this, but I have a feeling the chaotic envoronment is not going to end as a nice, clean, easy solution in the long-run.

I have no dogs in the race, I still use a Samsung dumbphone personally and a BB for work that I think is pathetic. Once smartphones in general stabilize and data becomes part of the base monthly price, I'll care.

Re:Here is my opinion (1)

alvinrod (889928) | about 4 years ago | (#33861340)

Since they're so late out of the gate, they need to have a lot of functionality that's been developed in-house. If they didn't release music playing software, etc. the earliest adopters wouldn't have access to those kinds of applications until third parties can get their software ported over. That could take months.

Microsoft is eventually going to have an application store similar to Apple's app store or Google's android marketplace, but the hardware isn't out yet and the vast majority of developers don't have access to it so that they can port the applications over in time for the device launch. If Microsoft didn't create these features in house, they'd just get slammed by the the press for not having them in place.

A rich ecosystem isn't going to spring up overnight and if no one were to buy the phones because they lacked the kinds of applications or abilities found on Android phones and iPhones, then the developers probably wouldn't bother to develop for the platform and build that rich ecosystem. Apple could afford not to have one when they first shipped because there were few other devices that were anything like the iPhone; Microsoft can't.

Finally iPhoners can laugh at someone else's (0)

scorp1us (235526) | about 4 years ago | (#33861048)

Lack of copy and paste... for a few months anyway.

Too little, too late (1)

elh_inny (557966) | about 4 years ago | (#33861054)

If you're into such gadgets and still don't have a smartphone (unlikely), other platforms offer better phones, more apps and a wider support and probably look better too...
Is it just me or is 10mm hardly thin for a 'thinnest' these days - after all, iPhone 4 is 9.3mm...

If you already have a capable phone - I can't really think of a single feature that could be considered an upgrade over latest in Symbian, Android or iOS...

Should have started with Verizon (1)

funehmon (648132) | about 4 years ago | (#33861074)

Verizon customers are starving for a new smart phone, why not start there? An AT&T customer looking for a new phone will go with an iPhone due to having 100 friends with one or because they have a previous version. A Verizon customer coming up for renewal would have to choose between two new commers, Droid and WP7. Seems like they would get more initial traction against Droid than iPhone.

Re:Should have started with Verizon (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861270)

I just got a new Verizon smart phone. ...not sure what stores you're visiting.

-Samsung Galaxy S "Fascinate" user.

P.S. Droid sucks.

Missing Enterprise features (2, Interesting)

vmxeo (173325) | about 4 years ago | (#33861126)

I'm not going to talk heavily about whether or not Windows Phone 7 is a good consumer phone. Only time will tell what kind of market adoption it will have verses the iPhone, Android, and Blackberries already present in the market.

I will, however, bemoan the complete lack of enterprise-ready features. Support for Exchange and and Office are good, but it's still a step backward from Windows Mobile 6.5. There's no support for 3rd party or enterprise apps. No mention of tethering or security certificates. Enterprise features such as have been promised at a future date, but I need a enterprise ready phone now. Maybe the Windows mobile 6.5 platform can be stretched to cover this need another year or two. But at this point, they're very little reason not to accept the reduced set of enterprise features and move to Android or the iPhone.

In its rush to grab a chunk of the consumer market, Microsoft may lose what market it had in the enterprise world.

I saw the video demo (1)

BLToday (1777712) | about 4 years ago | (#33861134)

I got nauseous from the swipe interface.

Simple question, how will I effectively keep my 100+ apps/games organize with this interface? I know there's a "hub", but all my games is be games and then I'll have to scroll through pages and pages of icons.

market fragmentation ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861212)

Won't this fragment the market, or does that astromeme only apply to Apple or Google :)

Don't underestimate the power of... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33861360)

One thing MS has going for it is their XNA platform shared with xbox makes it easy for xbox devs to port to the MS platform. I believe from a technology POV .NET is better than Java at the VM level at least. Their developer tools are world class. Given what can be leveraged from non-mobile technologies already in widespread use MS at least has a shot at significant market share. As evidenced by Andriod it is possible to be disruptive in this space in a short amount of time.

I personally object to iphone/WP7 style vendor lockin and refuse to enrich any technology company who thinks they have a right to lock down my phone to such a degree. No SD card slots, no managing your own files or installing your own thank you.

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