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Linux To Take Over Microsoft In Enterprises

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the slow-and-steady-wins-the-race dept.

Businesses 237

shougyin writes "For years, Linux has enjoyed much of its success as a replacement for Unix. Companies turned to Linux to replace Unix servers, or for new deployments within a Unix-heavy environment. Linux is still king there, but it's starting to encroach on Microsoft as well. Big companies are planning overwhelmingly (76.4%) to add more Linux servers in the next year, and less than half (41.2%) of the companies are planning to add Windows servers in the next year. Even more interesting, nearly half (43.6%) are actively planning to decrease use of Windows servers in the next year."

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Wow . . . (4, Funny)

Drewcool (726257) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929802)

For a second, I read that as "Linus To Take Over Microsoft".

Re:Wow . . . (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930016)

You mean you actually tried to read the headline before posting? Amazing!

Re:Wow . . . (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930918)

Yes, the expression should be "overtake", which is much different than "take over".

News for Nerds: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33929810)

This week, bogus statistics pushing an increasingly boring anti-microsoft zealotry and a pro-"operating system that takes at least one more step than windows to run any popular application or game" agenda.

I would expect no less from pseudointellectuals.

Re:News for Nerds: (4, Insightful)

rjch (544288) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929820)

This week, bogus statistics pushing an increasingly boring anti-microsoft zealotry and a pro-"operating system that takes at least one more step than windows to run any popular application or game" agenda.

I agree. Percentages are tossed around without any evidence or explanation as to how these figures were arrived at. Who was surveyed? What industries were they in? Why are they planning to add Linux servers? What function will these servers have? Why aren't they planning on adding Windows servers?

Re:News for Nerds: (3, Informative)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929848)

Well, I just switched my home server from Windows to Linux this very week-end. That cannot be a coincidence, right?

Re:News for Nerds: (-1, Offtopic)

neumayr (819083) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930520)

This web browser is not standards compliant. It is a pain to write a website for and severely limits what a programmer can do with a web page. As a result, this website will work in a degraded fashion, and some part may appear odd or even broken. The broken part is the browser you are using! We are lacking patience, time and motivation in supporting such a cumbersome product. For the benefit of all, you can get a better experience by upgrading to one of the web browsers below. They are free!

Wow :-O
This is an amazing portrayal of an extremely holier-than-thou, self centered attitude. I sure hope no actually useful site actually uses this crap.

Re:News for Nerds: (2, Funny)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930814)

Thanks! That's the point actually.

Who was surveyed? (4, Insightful)

benjymouse (756774) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929900)

Who was surveyed?

from the TFA:

the organizations surveyed were picked by the Linux Foundation End User Council

Next up:
10 out of 10 randomly selected stock brokers want more deregulation of the financial system
10 out of 10 randomly selected Taliban fighters don't trust the USA

Re:News for Nerds: (4, Informative)

koiransuklaa (1502579) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929996)

Don Marti tears the methodology and the point of the whole survey to pieces: http://zgp.org/~dmarti/business/hands-up-who-likes-me/ [zgp.org]

This sort of surveys may have value but used like this they're just embarrassing.

Re:News for Nerds: (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930108)

It's the usual copycat technique so liked by freetards. Now they're even copying "Get the facts"!

Re:News for Nerds: (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930460)

"+1 Googleplex, Funny" link to a Young Ones clip in that blog post. Awesome...

Re:News for Nerds: (5, Informative)

shougyin (1920460) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930034)

This is directly from the report. "This survey was conducted with members of The Linux Foundation’s End User Council, as well as other end users identified by The Linux Foundation and Yeoman Technologies. This report is being published at The Linux Foundation End User Summit, where many respondents will be in attendance. These companies include Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Bristol- Myers Squibb, NTT, Deutsche Bank, Dreamworks, ADP, McKinsey and Company, Bank of New York, Barclays Capital, AIG, the US Department of Defense, MetLife, CME Group, NASDAQ QMX, the New York Stock Exchange, Goodrich, and many more."

Re:News for Nerds: (1)

Netshroud (1856624) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930254)

They probably got to it a little like this [youtube.com]

Re:News for Nerds: (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930278)

Interesting enough, I was surprised to learn that some rather large institutions run their programs inside cygwin inside windows.... So all they are doing is replacing the windows machine with linux instead of running the java inside of cygwin, which makes perfect sense. As to why they were running the program inside cygwin inside windows to begin with, I have no idea.

Re:News for Nerds: (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930318)

And they are only planning to do so. That does not mean that it will actually happen. I plan on winning the lottery this year.

Re:News for Nerds: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930452)

Maybe it's a correction, the situation has always been like that, and the previous numbers were nothing more than microsoft FUD

Re:News for Nerds: (2, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930604)

From what I have seen.. the "decrease" in windows installs is because of data center consolidation and closing of offices that had a BDC. Yes more companies are looking at linux solutions for the back office, But it's not the picture they paint.

Windows is losing simply because of scaling. All companies are scaling back and if they reduce the number of servers at satellite locations, those are expensive licenses they will not have to pay.

Granted, I personally think it's retarded as hell to shrink your network like that and remove BDC's.. I experienced that at AT&T in the early 2000's we removed BDC's from offices that had less than 1000 employees. office downtime went up because when T1's to the nearest divisional office went down, productivity at that office usually took a crap. a small BDC is cheap and can serve as the office print server as well as file storage. but no, all that moves from local to at the end of a T1 or a T3 and now everything is slow as hell. Every try to support 10 users on citrix over a T1? It's painful for everyone involved.

Re:News for Nerds: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930368)

Agreed on everything except the "operating system that takes at least one more step than windows to run any popular application or game" part. This is specifically about enterprise. The considerations of a server are not the considerations of a desktop. If someone is running Call of Duty on your server then there are larger problems than OS.

ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (3, Informative)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929812)

I know quite a few companies who run 3-4 Windows servers for ActiveDirectory domain controllers and a lot of Linux servers as AD clients.

Once Samba4 is released, these Windows servers could be replaced as well.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (4, Interesting)

rjch (544288) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929846)

Once Samba4 is released, these Windows servers could be replaced as well.

Samba 4 has been in various stages of alpha for the last five years - or is it six?

Personally, I have considered a Samba 4 installation in only one place - a volunteer organisation that simply didn't have the budget for anything else. I'm still sniffing around for a surplus Windows Server license to replace it.

For an alpha release, Samba 4 is remarkably usable. However the time and effort that I have spent installing Samba 4 would have cost this organisation a fair bit more than the cost of a Windows Server 2008 Standard license. I don't see that reducing a huge amount even when Samba 4 is released - there's a lot of configuration involved to get DHCP, DNS and Samba 4 talking to each other properly.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (2, Insightful)

shitzu (931108) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929878)

However the time and effort that I have spent installing Samba 4 would have cost this organisation a fair bit more than the cost of a Windows Server 2008 Standard license

Perhaps. But imagine that you ditch windows servers altogether and save quite a bit from server CALs. Depending on the network size and configuration that could save a significant amount.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (2, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930622)

He is ignoring the cost of CAL's. I'm betting his entire shop is out of compliance on CAL's

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929930)

Any organization small enough to have trouble funding and domain controller Doesn't need one.

Just because the only tool you know how to use is a hammer doesn't mean every problem is a nail.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (3, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929948)

I've installed Samba4 on a test site. Installation was quite easy, even considering the DNS integration. However, I couldn't manage to set up DHCP with dynamic DNS updates. Though I see that they are adding an embedded DNS server into the Samba4 distribution (as they did with Kerberos and LDAP servers), so it should be much easier in the future.

Also, Microsoft tools for administration are seriously better than anything Samba4 has.

Samba4 for Linux networks (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930832)

Would you care to comment on whether Samba4 is useful only for replicating MS technologies in the network, or also for use in a pure Linux/POSIX environment (UNIX, Linux, Mac)?

Can you use pure Kerberos (not the MS version), or is that recommended?

And can Linux Terminal Server Project tie into this in some way (serve an appropriate terminal image based on a Samba profile)?

Re:Samba4 for Linux networks (2, Informative)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930888)

"Would you care to comment on whether Samba4 is useful only for replicating MS technologies in the network, or also for use in a pure Linux/POSIX environment (UNIX, Linux, Mac)?"

It's certainly useful. I'm using it in almost Linux-only environment.

"Can you use pure Kerberos (not the MS version), or is that recommended?"

Yes. It's possible to use Samba4 as a pure Kerberos server, and it works just fine. In fact, I've first installed OpenLDAP+Kerberos and then migrated everything on this test site to Samba4.

A piece of trivia: it's actually possible to join WinXP into a pure Kerberos domain.

"And can Linux Terminal Server Project tie into this in some way (serve an appropriate terminal image based on a Samba profile)?"

No idea. Though I imagine that it should work.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (4, Insightful)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930202)

However the time and effort that I have spent installing Samba 4 would have cost this organisation a fair bit more than the cost of a Windows Server 2008 Standard license

Does trhat count the time it took you to get trained in Windows Server 2008, Active Directory and all the other gubbins? IIRC there was a fair learning curve going from domains to AD. (and we'll ignore the cost of the CALs)

This annoys me a little about Linux migrations, people say how much more it costs based on the fact that they already know Windows, then compare that to the time taken to not only implement but also learn the Linux equivalent. Now you've done it once, you should be able to put in another Samba4 system without any fuss, surely?

and you can, of course, supply your config experience to the community - or to your own, ad-laden, blog. Might as well earn a little from getting people to come read what you did.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (2, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930434)

This annoys me a little about Linux migrations, people say how much more it costs based on the fact that they already know Windows, then compare that to the time taken to not only implement but also learn the Linux equivalent.

People do that because its the real life situation and *should* be considered - its not like the migration is happening from a blank slate to one or the other, its going from one to the other and thus the advantage of pre-existing experience in the familiar should be considered.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (1)

ewe2 (47163) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930394)

My problem isn't so much the learning curve of replacing one with the other - it's the competency of whoever ends up doing it. Whatever the business case, surely the majority of admins are going to be Windows-only: how is that going to succeed? If you have a business case and a good Unix admin, terrific. But I'm guessing that Microsoft isn't so worried about Unix servers taking over the enterprise because they have to get past the Microsoft-trained admin. He's going to raise hell with the CTO if he's forced to migrate servers, or worse, the job gets outsourced. SambaN+1 had better be awesomely user-friendly for it to be even seriously considered.

OTOH, a future Samba with built-in dynamic DNS is going to rock my world.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930660)

I'm still sniffing around for a surplus Windows Server license to replace it.

I'm working at a small but growing office. We considered putting a Windows server in the mix, but with the CAL's it's just not in the budget. Once we got samba working there was no incentive to add it later. The registry tweaks for Windows 7 were painful at first, but once you get the process down it wasn't that bad. You do give up some functionality but save a lot of cash.

Microsoft are the ones shooting themselves in the foot. Charging customers for a software license, then charging them more to actually use it for anything. Get rid of CAL's and we'll start looking around for a box to run the PDC.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33929876)

You can't replace AD with Samba 4 and you won't be able to any time soon. The sheer amount of stuff AD does and all the details of doing that stuff right (which AD does pretty well, actually) aren't going to be cranked out by a few (or even a few hundred) open source developers and be stable enough to use in a large enterprise.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929912)

What crap is this?

If one group of developers can do it then there's no reason another cannot. Or was just that an excuse for AC mudslinging?

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930170)

You mean I too can build a Saturn V rocket with my unspecialized team of 3 engineers? Or that we can terraform a hostile world to support human life?

Of course it's doable. As the GP wrote, the issues are time, stability, and compatibility.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (2, Insightful)

dhawton (691348) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930232)

If your 3 engineers study rocket science, then sure! Any group of programmers could replicate AD, just like another group of programmers did when they built AD. The group that built AD were unspecialized in AD, were they not?

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930106)

That's why development of Samba4 took about 6 years. Yet, they have succeeded. They replicated all the closed Microsoft technologies and right now they are finalizing the stack.

Re:ActiveDirectory - the last missing piece (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930124)

It's just replacing one complex pile of LDAP with a different one no matter which direction you are going in. There is nothing magic about Microsofts implementation of it.

/. is almost astroturf (-1, Troll)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929830)

you pretend to be a news site when really your just a den of linux loving commies.

Re:/. is almost astroturf (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930012)

Slashdot is a news aggregator. Not a news website. Also if you don't like the website or the comments then it's a simple choice. Leave.

Selfcongratulatory survey (5, Informative)

arivanov (12034) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929842)

This survey is not statistically representative by all means. It is done amidst users that already use Linux and done by a Linux advocacy. I am no MSFT fan. I have not had a Windows machine in my house since 1997 (and even that was Win 3.x running under OS2 Warp). However, the reality is not as rosy as this survey would like us to see.

First of all, the majority of Windows users are SMEs and they are Windows _ONLY_. They _WILL_ buy more of the same and that is a definite. A lot of the rest is desktop estate and its essential dependencies - Exchange and their friends. 95% of these will be buying more of the same. There are very few successful desktop migrations to account for anything more than that. Even that will be an underestimate. 99% buying more of the same is more likely.

That leaves "enterprise" backend use which is pretty much what this survey is about. There is a lively migration racket going on there nowdays as most of this runs in the form of Java and friends on top of middleware stacks. Every 1-2 years the latest and greatest backend idea comes along with its migration programme. As a result servers and stacks get chucked out and replaced by others.

There Linux is gaining and the numbers are about right. However that is a very small portion of the market and misrepresenting it for the whole market is to the very best disingenuous. Additionally, it also completely ignores the "Elephant In The Corner of The Room". The merger of Sun and Oracle has created a vertical stack which will once again effectively compete for their place under the sun (pun intended) in the server room. Any stats regarding enterprise migration that assign (Sn)Oracle a negative year on year growth are frankly wishful thinking.

My own statistics say... (1)

dna_(c)(tm)(r) (618003) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930224)

62.6% of decision makers in SME's only know about the existence of Windows as a server OS.

83.7% of decision makers would buy anything that is bought by the majority of their peers.

4.23% of decision makers are fed up having to buy extra CALs for their Windows server whenever they hire people, 68.2% don't understand their licensing obligations or how the BSA can raid their premises as a result - and 53.1% wouldn't - frankly my dear - give a damn, even when they would understand the licensing.

97.5% of marketing hype originates from the Microsoft camp - a tiny fraction from the Linux side, our POOTA 2010 (*) calculator had not enough significant decimals to describe it other than 0.0% but since this seems unprofessional, we put down the much nicer 0.0234%

* Pull Out of Thin Air - model 2010

survey not statistically representative (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930374)

"That's the word from the Linux Foundation's report on adoption trends. The report was conducted by the Yeoman Technology Group, and surveyed nearly 2,000 users picked by the Linux Foundation End User Council. The results released yesterday were culled from 387 respondents that are from the largest organizations -- companies with more than 500 employees and/or more than $500 million a year in revenue" link [linux.com]

"The Linux Foundation, in partnership with Yeoman Technology Group, recently conducted a survey of 1,948 Linux users. This invitation-only survey pool was comprised of the Linux Foundation End User Council as well as other companies, organizations and government agencies selected by The Linux Foundation and Yeoman" link [linuxfoundation.org]

Re:Selfcongratulatory survey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930830)

That leaves "enterprise" backend use which is pretty much what this survey is about. There is a lively migration racket going on there nowdays as most of this runs in the form of Java and friends on top of middleware stacks. Every 1-2 years the latest and greatest backend idea comes along with its migration programme. As a result servers and stacks get chucked out and replaced by others.

That may be true, but not everyone is going the Java/Linux stack route. And the one thing that I've learned from many years in the enterprise space is that nobody chooses an OS platform and says "this is our standard". They choose the application that gives them what they need, then let that dictate the platform. If that means Linux, then it's Linux. If that means Windows, then it's Windows. If that means AIX, well, you get the idea.

Re:Selfcongratulatory survey (1)

the_womble (580291) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930914)

Well if Linux is going to challenge MS for the SME business, some MS style marketing (which is exactly what this survey is) is likely to succeed.

The other thing about looking at big companies, is that saying "this is what big companies do" is a great way to sell to SMEs. This may not be so true in technology businesses where start-ups have glamour, but it is true in most other sectors.

wake me up.... (4, Interesting)

batistuta (1794636) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929864)

wake me up when Linux starts taking over Microsoft in Desktops.

I'm happy about it, but not surprised. As the old generation of IT admins go away, newer ones are more flexible and have ways of saving money without MS in the equation. Linux is not the only solution, but one competitive alternative. Different is the Desktop, partially because it is not baked up big companies like the kernel and enterprise tools are. Canonical is an exception, but sadly a more or less lonely one.

Re:wake me up.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930026)

Why does anyone think Linux will ever replace Windows as a desktop environment? Current focus is away from the desktop. KDE and Gnome aren't any better than Windows in that regard. If anything replaces Windows, it won't go by what we call it today. OS X, KDE, Gnome, even future Windows*, can all be discounted.

* Any major desktop change by Microsoft is unlikely to fall under the Windows product line IMO.

Re:wake me up.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930154)

Eh, you can say that all you want, but what's going to replace it? The Cloud? That will fly only as long as the connection between the user interface device/computer and the server is uninterrupted. And I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Re:wake me up.... (1)

shougyin (1920460) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930182)

Because, watching the underdog wipe out a Multi-billion dollar company, which, IMHO doesn't care about quality but only cares that you keep buying their products, would be a great day! Like watching James "Buster" Douglas beat Mike Tyson all over again!

Re:wake me up.... (1)

silanea (1241518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930398)

Sure. Wake me up when full-scale GIS and 3D CAD software are available from the "cloud". SAP is sadly beginning to buy into this bullshit.

Re:wake me up.... (3, Interesting)

Sique (173459) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930490)

SAP R/3 was always a Three-Tiers-System, so it was "cloudy", before the term was coined. You have your big database server, you have some application servers hooked to the database, and you have clients which in turn connect to the application servers. When you connect to a R/3 system, it is never clear which dialog server you get connected to. That was so in 1995, and it is still so in 2010.

Re:wake me up.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930558)

Do you see cloud at all mentioned in the grandparent post? Why is your imagination so limited?

If you can't possibly think of what can occur, then remember what has already occurred. Chrome OS, iPhone, and WP7 can all run offline local (web) apps just fine. Full 3D games are now officially running natively inside of Chrome using WebGL (search for Google's Web Store).

Also, requests like yours demonstrate a need for separation of concerns. Consumers have no use for workstation-demanding application suites like CAD. Windows will _always_ exist for that purpose. But this purpose is harmful to the regular user... business interests are exactly why Windows is a bloated, huge and unstoppable mess. It does everything at once, and little of it well.

Re:wake me up.... (2, Insightful)

silanea (1241518) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930678)

Do you see cloud at all mentioned in the grandparent post? Why is your imagination so limited?

People who focus "away from the desktop" at some point end up with wanting to run everything but the driver layer in the browser, coming from some kind of all new, all fancy web-based platform. Ie. the "cloud".

Chrome OS, iPhone, and WP7 can all run offline local (web) apps just fine. Full 3D games are now officially running natively inside of Chrome using WebGL (search for Google's Web Store).

Great. We essentially get an operating system on top of an operating system that can run local applications that actually aren't really local but web-based but that can be run offline. Say what?

There is a lot of stuff that can safely and easily be done via a web interface - consumer-grade web mail, relatively simple office applications, maybe media players etc. Then there is a hell of a lot of stuff for which I cannot see any net gain from moving those to some half online, half offline platform. This introduces more complexity and overhead than it brings savings, as I see it.

And games? Sure, there are games that can be realised in a browser. Most large modern games cannot. And that is not going to change overnight.

Also, requests like yours demonstrate a need for separation of concerns. Consumers have no use for workstation-demanding application suites like CAD. [...]

This thread is about desktops in enterprise environments. Regardless, more and more "consumers" start reencoding video for their portable players or using other resource-hungry complex applications that have long been the domain of professional users. The technological standard is rising.

Re:wake me up.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930548)

Next year is the year of Linx on the desktop! Again! No, really, this time I mean it!

I'm a Linux fanboy, but... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33929886)

I thought it was very funny to see 41% called "less than half", and 44% called "almost half! :D

Technically correct and true, yes, but I smell bias...

Re:I'm a Linux fanboy, but... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930280)

There is an "Linux 'world domination' happening next week" on here almost every week.
They all have the same bias and people jump on the bandwagon.

Re:I'm a Linux fanboy, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930442)

Even funnier if it were the other way around. :P

Re:I'm a Linux fanboy, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930648)

I thought it was very funny to see 41% called "less than half", and 44% called "almost half! :D

Technically correct and true, yes, but I smell bias...

i am agree for that

No you're not. An MS fanboi, maybe (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930788)

No you're not. An MS fanboi, maybe but there's nothing wrong with less than half at 41% and nearly half at 44%. After all, at some point, it can no longer be called "nearly half" and there will be a number that is "less than half" and one right next to it which is "almost half", no matter where you draw the distinction.

That you assert this is amusing and evidence of bias is where I assert proof you are a linux hater, not a linux fan.

Re:I'm a Linux fanboy, but... (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930850)

Did you think that only MS advocates are biased!??!?!?!

survey says... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33929888)

I could see both big and small companies reducing their amount of microsoft servers in the future for a couple of reasons.
1) They are joining their BPOS cloud services and therefore have less need for their own in house MS production servers. Large % of big business is joining the cloud.
2) The new server topology for exchange requires whole new separate servers or hyperv virtual servers for edge (either way its a separate server license) in addition to their CAS, hub transport, mailbox servers, etc.

Re:survey says... (1)

shougyin (1920460) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930122)

I only see it with terms of cost, being that though it takes more time and knowledge/work to set up a Linux server, you don't have to pay for licensing. But I also believe that if I can make something free work for everything I need without having to spend $$$$$$$, then I'm all for it!

Re:survey says... (1)

JamesTRexx (675890) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930196)

We're not a big company at all, but I'm looking at implementing Linux servers for the small businesses in this area.
One of the main reasons is they primarily need central storage and backup, and often get by with using a simple mailbox without the Exchange/Outlook features.
For our own use I've set up one Nagios server for business contracts and one Samba server for use in the unsafe network area (repairing PCs, often infected by malware).

Re:survey says... (2, Interesting)

shougyin (1920460) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930354)

Have you taken a look at ClearOS [clearfoundation.com] ?

Re:survey says... (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930868)

I'm a little unclear on why Nagios (which AFAIK is a server monitoring app) would have to do specifically with a file server that houses business contracts.

Tail wagging dog. (1)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929898)

Really, does this work? I'm genuinely curious. I wonder if in the 2008 elections, for example, all the newspapers and media had reported that John McCain was ahead by a huge margin if he would have won. Does the "Linux Foundation" really think polling linux users asking about trends is going to mean anything, or do they think it's going to create some impetus in the market to move to Linux? Either one seems a bit daft to me.

Re:Tail wagging dog. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33929944)

It does, I saw it first hand in the Republican primaries in Florida. Out of the half dozen possibilities the local (and to some small extent national) media pulled the rug out from below 4 of them, and then focused on the remaining two for weeks. So ya It works.

Re:Tail wagging dog. (1)

Capt. Skinny (969540) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930142)

Of course. No one votes for a candidate whom the media marginalizes.

The year of the Linux desktop? (-1, Offtopic)

sosume (680416) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929952)

Wait ... is this then finally the year of the Linux desktop????? Has it finally arrived?? Oh wait be right back, it seems hell has just frozen over.

In related news, 82% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Re:The year of the Linux desktop? (1)

Kilrah_il (1692978) | more than 3 years ago | (#33929970)

And the other 18% are lies.

Define Half. (-1, Redundant)

PiAndWhippedCream (1566727) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930046)

41.2% is `less than half', yet 43.6% is `nearly half'. Who thinks samzenpus' threshold between these two phrases is really between these two numbers. Also: Douglass Adams fans, 0.42 == 42% != 42.

Wow (0, Offtopic)

Tim C (15259) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930050)

Ok samzenpus, what did MS do to you this time?

Seriously, three stories in a row? Were they all really the best of the bunch in the submission queue?

Well I tried to finish reading TFA.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930104)

I really did intend to finish reading until I stumbled upon the second paragraph.. "surveyed nearly 2,000 users picked by the Linux Foundation End User Council"

I recommend a small change to the title of the article. "How not to conduct an objective survey assuming you expect anyone to take it seriously"

what about proper ACL in Linux? (1)

barinov2000 (957855) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930126)

well, maybe this should get fixed first: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/22974/ [ubuntu.com]

Re:what about proper ACL in Linux? (2, Informative)

ratboy666 (104074) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930530)

Linux supports rwx/ugo file permissions, as well as ACLs. It really isn't a problem.

The REASON that ACLs really aren't used much is that they are too difficult to audit. The specific problem in your referenced article can be solved with links.

Enterprises (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930132)

So thats NX1 , NCC-1701 , and NCC-1701D ?

wake me up when they use it on Voyager

I am a nonbeliever (2, Interesting)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930250)

I do not trust such assessments as much I do not trust assessments which point in the opposite direction. As much as I would like to see OS prevail CS, I do not believe this will happen any time soon or even in the distant future (under the assumption that our economic regime will not change).

Anyway, a major show stopper for small business to convert to Linux-based infrastructures is the SBS from Microsoft. Small companies have as a service infrastructure these SBS servers, which provide a mail directory service, calendars, address books. It provides web based access to these services as well as an Outlook integration. And it comes with share-point, which is also a requirement. And finally it works with all these smartphones, especially Blackberries and iPhones.

Therefore a migration effort has to take into account that the same functionality has to be provided with better QoS. While better QoS ist not the problem, the same functionality is a serious problem. Especially when it comes to more detailed properties.

But even worse, migration cannot be done in an overnight attempt. These always fail and in the end you loose a customer and they switch to MS for the rest of their lives. Therefore you need a soft migration strategy. And this is the key problem here.

While you can provide most features with lets say egroupware (which is not such a good idea, a servlet based approach would be better) you still need IMAP (dovecot), SMTP (postfix) and LDAP to model the mail service. Egroupware can also provide these calendars. But how do you replace Sharepoint? And especially how do you integrate with Sharepoint? While you switch to webdav oder sftp etc. the client's clients will not switch (at the same time). So you still need to integrate both services.

I have not seen any generic strategy for this problem. And honestly there are hundreds of thousands of small companies using SBS. And bigger companies use similar services.And the Blackberry-integration into a replacement infrastructure is very important as all these business guys use it.

Re:I am a nonbeliever (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930430)

Sharepoint? Alfresco and KnowledgeTree are both better than SP. Exchange can be replaced rather easily by Citadel or Zimbra.

Re:I am a nonbeliever (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930566)

Will they work with Outlook? And the more important thing: Can they work side by side with the old systems?

Re:I am a nonbeliever (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930664)

Don't know about Alfresco, but KnowledgeTree is only better than sharepoint at plain document management. If you want all the fancy "use it as the platform for simple web apps" stuff, you need to look elsewhere. Most Wiki software I've seen is great for making editable web pages, but lousy at being used as a platform for simple web apps. Closest I've seen to half-decent is TWiki, and it's nothing like as slick as sharepoint. No matter what you may think of it, that slickness sells.

Windows servers? (0)

loufoque (1400831) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930284)

I thought they were a myth!

Three MS stories in succession? (0)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930332)

Is it Redmond Day?

Single sign on? (2, Insightful)

jernejk (984031) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930382)

Do we have AD like single sign on at least for linux servers? No? How about clients then? No?

Seriously, how do you guys handle root password management for servers? SSH is not the real answer here, IMHO.

Re:Single sign on? (2, Insightful)

Sique (173459) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930508)

You know, about 30 years ago (1978 to be specific) there was this strange thing called "KERBEROS"... it still works. Single-Sign-On is a non-issue in the UNIX-world. It was solved 30 years ago.

Re:Single sign on? (4, Informative)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930640)

LOl, so true. The sad thing is Microsoft took Kerberos, bastardized it and changed the name to AD so most people are ignorant that "Single Signon" technology was not developed by Uncle Bill. But then most technologies gives Microsoft fits when they try to develop their own code. Anyone remember trumpet winsock from the early days of Win95? What a horrible POS that was and Microsoft finally threw in the towel and used the BSD TCP/IP stack.

Re:Single sign on? (4, Informative)

ledow (319597) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930704)

Apart from the fact that AD was derived from a Unix technology that does exactly what you ask:

Install Likewise Open. That's your client problem solved. My school has trolleys full of Ubuntu netbooks that log onto the wireless network and allow any AD login on any domain they are joined too. It took three commands I think (install the package, name the machine, join the domain). Kids don't even need to know that the netbooks are Linux whereas the rest of the school is almost all Windows. And, yes, I can use the Windows Administrators to do privileged operations by just sticking them in the right groups.

Server is a bit more tricky but if you're keeping homogenous systems (Linux server, Linux clients), single-sign-on on Linux has been around for donkey's years. Server probably needs Samba4 if you want modern-Windows-clients on a Linux-only server.

Next, please describe how to use MS-supplied tools to achieve the same (i.e. log MS clients onto Linux servers, or even Linux clients onto MS servers). It's hardly surprising that nobody really supports joining the competition, so homogenous systems are infinitely easier to support. But your claim as a unit is bollocks. Wanna come see a Linux netbook join an unprepared, untampered-with Windows-only domain run by a Windows-only machine with no Linux help server-side, and support SSO for all its operations (including initial login, printer access, fileshare access, even desktop icons etc.)? A group of 8 year old's here do it every day.

Useless unless *nix replaces Desktop. (2, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930492)

While Linux is certainly the much lower costs option vs. MS, the real issue should be about Security. The problem though, is that many of *nix, is the fact that since Windows is so easily cracked. And once cracked, they have access to SSH keys and/or passwords and the ability to place a snooper. Once you have access to being on ANY TYPE BOX, it is over. It is simply a matter of time before it is fully owned. This does not matter if it is windows, Linux, OSX, trusted Linux, trusted Solaris/AIX/HP-UX, or even a os/390.

Re:Useless unless *nix replaces Desktop. (1)

arndawg (1468629) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930744)

implying that admins leave SSH keys around on desktops for end users? That doesn't have anything to do with OS, that's just stupid.

High redhat costs (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930512)

RedHat support cost is killing the opportunity to increase linux in enterprises... Windows licenses are cheaper!

Actively reduce the number of Windows Servers.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930564)

It's called server consolidation. I'm slated to decrease my server count by about 40% in the next 5 years. It's not to avoid Windows, it's to avoid buying those servers again in 5 more years. Hardware has come a long way and I've finally got the old geezers to change the way things are done around here.

john gotti also became unsuccessful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930626)

similar tactics yield similar results. there's only time, space & circumstance, which can only change. ayn rand may have written her book (the softwar gangsters' 'bible') a little differently had she known just how much we really do need each other. our inattention to that simple direction will be our demise. there's still a LOT of poisonous (to lilfe) randoidian 'thinking' & behaviors (selfish) festering around our trustdead 'leaders' decision making processes, no?

The devil's advocate (0)

SpaghettiPattern (609814) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930668)

Speaking as the devil's advocate, I must remark that:
  • "Planning" for Linux is a good point in negotiating fees with MS.
  • Inept management caused by inexperience will increase system management effort. (There are so many blithering idiots out there thinking UNIX-like systems can be managed just as sloppy as Windows systems. Letting run anything under root. Chmodding 777 anything they find. Barbarians!)

OTOH: A good UNIX-like admin-policy allows you to administer large or even huge amount of systems at a fraction of the cost compared to Windows.

Sure! (1)

closer2it (926190) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930700)

... and Duke Nukem Forever it's coming soon! Sheezz...

osama spotted, pasted into cnn headline photo (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33930712)

restores our faith

Windows 7 to blame ? (0)

martyw (1911748) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930740)

Windows 7 software feels like a downgrade (UI wise) from XP and from the technical perspective they decided to not allow the old NT/XP drivers that control our machinery to run in Windows 7, so we would need to rewrite them using the new WDK7, again that means throwing thousands of lines of code and QA testing out of window. Do they plan to do this with any future iteration of their OS? Shouldn't we really stick with something that have some predictability and permanency? Is there some NT or XP based Windows due in 2011?

No yet (2, Interesting)

NetServices (1479949) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930798)

I'm not a die hard Windows advocate but the fact still remains that it still has deeply saturated the marketplace. Unless Linux can gain share on the home PC in terms of usability and compatibility the end users will still be favoring Windows. Outside of the technical minded end users most just want to use something they know.

Growing (3, Interesting)

Stooshie (993666) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930854)

I'm just trying to think of some area of tech/i.t./communications where MS is increasing it's sales ...




... Still thinking!

The surprise is in the unreported (but implied) nu (3, Insightful)

kenh (9056) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930902)

As a poll taken by the Linux Foundation based on the answers of two hundred of it's largest members that responded, what I found suprising is that less than half of them plan on increasing their use of Linux - these are the biggest supporters of Linux, and 50%+ ARE NOT PLANNING TO INCREASE THEIR USE OF LINUX!

These are Linux's biggest supporters (they joined the foundation, they replied to the survey, and they are of a certain size) - if half of them aren't increasing use of Linux, to me that is the interesting number. If 50%+ of the largest members of the Oracle Users Group said they were not going to increase use of Oracle DB that would be the story, why is the spin backwards here? Oh yeah, Linux Foundation wrote the press release, slashdot partitas it...

Re:The surprise is in the unreported (but implied) (1)

kenh (9056) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930910)

That last line should say "...Slashdot parroted it."

My iPhone didn't think I meant to write parroted...

The statistics given are meaningless (1)

Just Brew It! (636086) | more than 3 years ago | (#33930938)

The article itself even admits as much: "Since the organizations surveyed were picked by the Linux Foundation End User Council, there's naturally going to be some happy Linux users in the bunch."

While we're throwing meaningless statistics around, we might as well also toss in a mostly meaningless anecdote. I work in a small satellite R&D office of a medium sized company. Corporate HQ runs big iron (IBM) and Windows servers. The primary server and most of the desktops in our office run Windows, and always have (this office was opened in 2005, the primary server is still the original one). However, the last two servers we've added have been Linux-based, and two of the software developers have switched to using Linux as their primary desktop OS (I am one of the two who have switched).

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