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Steve Jobs Lashes Out At Android

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the battle-of-the-billions dept.

Google 864

Ponca City writes "Steve Jobs doesn't usually make a guest appearance on Apple's post-earnings conference calls with analysts, but this time he made an exception, attacking Google for marketing its operating system as 'open' versus Apple's 'closed' iOS. 'Google loves to characterize Android as "open" and iOS and iPhone as "closed." We find this a bit disingenuous, and clouding the real difference between our two approaches,' said Jobs. 'Android is very fragmented. Many Android [manufacturers], including the two largest, HTC and Motorola, install proprietary user interfaces to differentiate themselves from the commodity Android experience. The user's left to figure it out. Compare this to iPhone, where every handset works the same.' Jobs stated that the real debate is between 'fragmented versus integrated' and which is better for the consumer. 'When selling to users who want their devices to just work, we believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform rather than a hundred variants.' Jobs also criticized the Android Marketplace, pointing out that there are at least three other app stores being launched by vendors, causing confusion for users and work for developers. 'This is gonna be a mess for both users and developers,' Jobs said. 'Contrast this with Apple's integrated App Store, which offers users the easiest-to-use, largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone.'"

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Next up: straightjackets vs. utility belts (4, Insightful)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950754)

I hear it's so much better when someone else adjusts all the straps for you.

They are for two different people (2, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951034)

What Jobs was saying is exactly why, excluding fanboys on both sides, Android tends to be more popular with really geeky folks while the iPhone tends to be more popular with people that want their experience ready to go out of the box.

Re:They are for two different people (4, Insightful)

js3 (319268) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951076)

No that's not what he was trying to say. He was trying to say, my shit is better than yours.

Jobs is babbling. (5, Insightful)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951278)

Jobs also criticized the Android Marketplace, pointing out that there are at least three other app stores being launched by vendors, causing confusion for users and work for developers. "This is gonna be a mess for both users and developers,"

Yes, because people have proven that having more than one drug store, supermarket, or fast food chain inevitably disorients them and fouls up their lives. Oh, wait.

I really do like my Apple products, but not for the reasons Jobs pushes; more like in spite of his ideas. I'd love another store, particularly one where Jobs Judeo-Christian mores aren't pushed upon me; or, conversely, if Apple's store stopped insisting that apps have to work they way they think they should, or that apps "can't duplicate functionality." I'm hugely fond my my iPad, but the idea that it would be less useful to me if there were more than one app store available to me... that's just wrong.

Re:Next up: straightjackets vs. utility belts (1)

eepok (545733) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951040)

Done in one! I'd +1 ya, if I could.

Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (5, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950766)

With a single tweet [twitter.com] :

the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"

The best part is Andy Rubin started as an engineer at Apple in 1989.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (-1, Troll)

BWJones (18351) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950964)

The problem with this as it relates to the market is that a vanishingly small percentage of the population would even know what cd means, much less make. These markets serve people that want to get stuff done (email, phone, text, post to websites/blogs/etc...) and are not remotely interested in using the device to geek out on it. They use the devices that allow them to do what they want while staying out of the way. My principle complaint of the Android devices when I had one was that a simple OS update meant reinstalling all of my apps! Why in the world would someone allow that to be shipped? I swore off Android at that point, but may look at it again some time in the future.

For now, iOS lets me do what I need to do without getting in the way or making me find the right libraries or compile anything. When I spend time compiling software for the iOS, I want it to do something new and perhaps make some money while doing it.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951044)

a vanishingly small percentage of the population would even know what cd means, much less make

Then "open" will (and should) mean nothing to them. And Jobs' rant will be seen by them as a lot of flapping and not much flying, as by a chicken; a plucked chicken.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (1)

BWJones (18351) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951328)

We'll see what happens then... However, the market seems to indicate that your compass may be a bit off... Don't get me wrong, I am all for diverse ecosystems including portable OS systems. For me this is not about marketshare, but what works for me. The iOS works better for me than the Android. Your milage may vary.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (3, Informative)

Chees0rz (1194661) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951188)

My principle complaint of the Android devices when I had one was that a simple OS update meant reinstalling all of my apps! Why in the world would someone allow that to be shipped?

Were you an early adopter? I did not need to do this on my HTC Incredible when moving from 2.0 to 2.2 (froyo). Of course, I did have to wait for HTC to release it.

My roommate went the other approach and installed it himself. Not sure what he ran into...

I Am Awash with Confusion (4, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951298)

For now, iOS lets me do what I need to do without getting in the way or making me find the right libraries or compile anything.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have never had to reinstall an app other than during an update for that app. When my DROID updated Android, everything came back up. I have developed Android applications, the SDK is a just a zip that works in Linux, Windows even Mac. And you just unzip it and use the emulator and SDK that comes with it. Awhile ago, I tried to code iPhone apps but given that I don't have a Mac -- no luck!

When I spend time compiling software for the iOS, I want it to do something new and perhaps make some money while doing it.

Wow. Then perhaps you'd like to discuss the fees you had to pay in order to develop something for the iPhone? Are you enrolled in the iOS developer program? I put together the machine I develop on and it was quite inexpensive. And if I wanted to distribute my apps on Android Market I'm not aware of any fee or approval BS that comes with Apple's market. Do some reading [wikipedia.org] :

To run an application on the iPhone, the application needs to be signed. This signed certificate is only granted by Apple after the developer has first developed the software through either the US$99/year Standard package or the US$299/year Enterprise package with the iPhone SDK.

Good luck "making a bit of money" when you're already negative from the get go!

Really, your comment reads like something written by someone who is confusing the customer with the developer and has never tried coding an Android app. You're correct that git and make don't mean anything to a customer but it does if you consider that developers have to embrace the platform before the customer has an apps to use!

Short run: make your money on iPhone. Long run: Android wins out. Trust me on this one.

I can't tell if you're confused or trolling ... I read your blog so I know you're not stupid.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (4, Interesting)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951300)

The problem with this as it relates to the market is that a vanishingly small percentage of the population would even know what cd means, much less make. These markets serve people that want to get stuff done (email, phone, text, post to websites/blogs/etc...) and are not remotely interested in using the device to geek out on it. They use the devices that allow them to do what they want while staying out of the way. My principle complaint of the Android devices when I had one was that a simple OS update meant reinstalling all of my apps! Why in the world would someone allow that to be shipped? I swore off Android at that point, but may look at it again some time in the future.

For now, iOS lets me do what I need to do without getting in the way or making me find the right libraries or compile anything. When I spend time compiling software for the iOS, I want it to do something new and perhaps make some money while doing it.

I have an HTC Evo since the day it was released. Since then, I've been through a few minor updates and a major release (Froyo). I have never had to reinstall apps and I've never had to worry about libraries or compiling anything at all. For that matter, I've never known anyone to have to compile anything for Android with the exception of a developer I know.

So, I don't know what phone or Android version you're running, but it can't be anything recent. I think your issues could be compared with someone bashing Ubuntu because way back when they ran Linux, they had to compile everything from source.

As for Apple, I have two iPod Touch units, one 3rd Gen and one 4th Gen. I've had to reinstall different software apps several times and had some just stop working after a time (don't know if an update caused the problems). Of course, when something stops working on the iPod/Phone, there's really nothing you can do except uninstall and reinstall and see if that fixes your issue. Other than that, well, just uninstall and hope you can get your money back if it's an app you paid for. Those issues were with the 3rd Gen. I can't really speak for the 4th Gen as it only worked for a couple of days before I had to send it back to Apple. Apple service was great, but I shouldn't of had to send the damn thing back in the first place. I didn't have to pay any money for the repair, but it did cost me several hours trying to figure out what was wrong + a trip to the UPS store to have it shipped back to Apple.

Oh, and don't even get me started on iTunes...

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (-1, Troll)

vought (160908) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951004)

Wow. For the vast majority of people who are affected by the difference in these platforms, this means exactly squat.

Glad you're impressed. Now you see why Steve Jobs is CEO of the second-largest company in the US, and Andy Rubin is a geek at Google.

I certainly don't hold material gain above all else, but Rubin's reply shows exactly the kind of hubris that Google is getting a bad reputation for here in the valley; it's a bunch of geeks on a power trip in many cases, hence the arcane and off-topic interview question highlighted in today's Mercury News. Google makes engineers feel special, Apple engineers look at the numbers and balance sheets and say: "Our products rock". They don't need to be told how special they are simply because they can decipher a piece of code. They can see it in customers' faces.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (5, Insightful)

c (8461) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951160)

Hate to get all Stallman on you, but any definition of open that doesn't include "make install" is rather weak.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951270)

What exactly is "make install" supposed to do when building Android..?

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (5, Insightful)

mrjatsun (543322) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951162)

The tweet is FUD... He missed the most important part.. How do you install this on a Droid or most other
Android devices? You need to root it just like you do to jailbreak a iPhone.

Android devices are far from open.. Don't believe the hype... My hope is for
a Ubuntu tablet.. Maybe that will actually be open...

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (5, Interesting)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951174)

That would be meaningful if I could put that into a usable device without voiding all of my carrier user agreements.

"Somewhere out there is a magical open android!"
"If it's not on my phone I don't care."

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (1)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951254)

the definition of open

Behold, the freedom the carriers have to create the branded experience, instead of the manufacturer.

It's well and good that you can build it yourself, but the practical effect is to allow the handset makers and cellular carriers to turn their subscriber's eyeballs into commodities they resell back to Google. "Open" is only a virtue to those who open the box, to everyone else the benefits accrue to others.

Re:Creator and Overseer of Android Responds (1)

DoomHamster (1918204) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951280)

Great...now everyone will be bash-ing Android.....

That's fine (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33950770)

I refuse to use Android or iOS.

Re:That's fine (4, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950888)


I refuse to use Android or iOS.

I didn't think either was an option on your Bakelite rotary dial phone.

Re:That's fine (3, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951308)

I refuse to use Android or iOS.

I didn't think either was an option on your Bakelite rotary dial phone.

That's so typical. Just because you have an older phone, they don't support it.

Re:That's fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951122)

You and me both. The smartphone market sucks across the board. It's not just the carriers, it's the hardware manufactures as well.

Tweetdeck's reply? (5, Insightful)

mlts (1038732) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950788)

Didn't Dodsworth from Tweetdeck say that he had only two guys on the Android port, and fragmentation wasn't really an issue?

Re:Tweetdeck's reply? (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951088)

Yes

http://twitter.com/iaindodsworth/status/27813709366

Open? People break both open. (5, Insightful)

mveloso (325617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950798)

Jailbreak your iPhone and install what you want.
Re-Rom your Android and install what you want.

What's the difference?

Re:Open? People break both open. (4, Informative)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950866)

The difference is that with most Android installations (and indeed, all to my knowledge, but there may be some I haven't heard of), you can install what you want right off the bat. If you don't like the content available on the Android Market, you can check the box to allow you to install non-Market apps. There is absolutely no reason Apple couldn't do this, while still preserve their "user experience".

Re:Open? People break both open. (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950956)

AT&T didn't allow you to do this with their initial android offerings - can't comment on the new ones. It was a walled garden just the same as the Apple experience.

God, Just Shut The Fuck Up (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951062)

Fucking pathetic cocksucker.

Complete source to the entire fucking cellphone OS.
Can load apps from anywhere the user wants.
Can replace any app or subsystem on the phone the user desires.
Can develop apps or subsystems for Android on any OS.

You can shut the fuck up now dimwit.

Re:Open? People break both open. (1)

SkankinMonkey (528381) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950872)

The only problem is, many vendors are making it increasingly hard to replace the ROM on your phone. Motorola has their locked bootloader, the G2 has the auto-unroot 'protection.' If google doesn't release a new dev. device our homebrew options for android will gradually fade away, I fear.

Re:Open? People break both open. (2, Insightful)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950996)

This is the point Jobs is making and actually I agree with it.

A platform is not really "open" if it's only open in a way that 1%ers (1% most technical users) can do anything with it that benefits from openness.

The biggest manufacturers are fragmenting Android by installing their own worthless bloatware, I mean, end-user experience, over the top.

And if the users don't do anything beyond use the phone more or less as-is - customizing the pre-packaged frontend, installing approved apps from the approved app store - is it really open, or just another brand of the same thing iOS is?

No, they don't. (1)

schon (31600) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950896)

What's the difference?

I can see the source code for Android [slashdot.org]

Which (incidentally) is why it's open, and apple's offering isn't.

Re:No, they don't. (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951022)

Maybe it's "open" in a way, but with Motorola, HTC, Samsung, etc. locking things down at a different layer, is there any functional difference for the average end user?

Re:No, they don't. (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951100)

Yes, they can choose which Android device they want, from £80 pay as you go phones through £400 HTC Desire-style high end smart phones, and tablets.

Re:No, they don't. (2, Interesting)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951026)


I can see the source code for Android

I'm a big FOSS fan (typing this on an Ubuntu box) but the whole "I can see the source" thing rings hollow for me.

Every day people use things they don't have the source to. From the firmware in the alarm clock that wakes them up to the BIOS in their computers to the code running the microwave oven. The TV cable box firmware (heck, the TV itself!), alarm system firmware, automobile computer firmware, etc.

Yeah, it's nice to have the code, but I don't base decisions solely on that. If I did, the house would be pretty empty.

Re:No, they don't. (1)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951290)

The point isn't that you personally can see the source code (unless you're a developer), but that others can see it and extend and enhance the product.

Most people don't value open-source in home appliances, but If you had an open source (and flashable) alarm clock, and if you hate that the snooze is always a constant 9 minutes, it's likely that someone else thought the same thing and released a patch to lat you set the snooze to whatever you want.

Likewise, if you have an android phone and hate that it doesn't support your VPN at work, you can bet that someone else had the same problem and ported a Cisco compatible VPN client to it.

Re:Open? People break both open. (1)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951110)

Steve Jobs explanation for why iOS is better reminds me of some of the reasons that the communists thought that their central planned economies were going to crush the inefficient and disorganized Western economies!

But seriously, there are many types of open. Even though the Android phones available from your local carrier have been locked down, making them far from ideal for the open-source purist or the tinkerer, they are still very 'open' in a way that I believe is critical for all consumers: the Android Market.

Though the Android Market needs a lot of work the fact that it is only minimally and consistently censored is very significant. The way that Apple is managing its App Store - killing apps that provide undesirable competition to Apple or its buddies, that criticize the wrong politicians, etc. - will harm the platform, not to mention its users. Not to mention the fact that it is simply insulting to its users.

iPhone users can jail-break their phones at this time, but that ability seems to come and go and is certainly not a feature of iOS, either philosophically or practically.

So 'open' has many different meanings, and while one type of openness is gone by the time Android reaches your phone, others are still there.

Re:Open? People break both open. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951142)

iOS is open source? Cool, where can I find the iOS equivalent of Cyanogen [cyanogenmod.com] for my iPhone?

Re:Open? People break both open. (1)

RatherBeAnonymous (1812866) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951212)

The difference is that Apple tried to make it illegal to jailbreak your iPhone.

Dear Steve (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33950812)

Not everyone wants what you like, some of us can make our own minds up based on our needs and preferences. Ever heard of slide out keyboards?

headline FAIL (0)

Uberbah (647458) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950836)

Agree with him or not, Jobs rattles off qualitative differences between the Android and iPhone platforms. Where, exactly, is the "lashing out"? He's criticizing, not throwing chairs here.

Re:headline FAIL (1)

Scragglykat (1185337) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950922)

I believe the problem is that he's listing off all the flaws he sees (some of which are considered features by the Android community) in the Android deployment, but he fails to see any failures in his own platform because he does acknowledge them as value added features.

Re:headline FAIL (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951072)

Apple isn't selling the same thing as Motorola or HTC are selling. Apple sells the smoothness/simplicity/overall "goodness" of user experience. It's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that Apple in any way wants to emulate Google or Android.

And I'm not an Apple apologist, I just recognize what he is saying for what it is. It's only a critique of what "open" really means where the rubber meets the road. Open is a great concept on the mobile platform, but when have we really seen it?

Re:headline FAIL (1)

ojak (1857004) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950944)

Where, exactly, is the "lashing out"? He's criticizing, not throwing chairs here.

Both approaches have pro's and con's... why is that so tough for people to be ok with?

Re:headline FAIL (1)

bodhijon (991528) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950992)

Mod parent up. My thoughts exactly.

Re:headline FAIL (1, Insightful)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951178)

Jobs is doing what the typical car salesman or Sears clerk does - twisting the facts. "Self-rinse cycle? Airbags? Openness? Nah you don't want or need any of that. Trust. Me. :-D"

His opinion is therefore biased and means Nothing to me.

Not all bad points (1)

SkankinMonkey (528381) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950840)

For the most part he is wrong. However, multiple markets for android will make things messy. Unfortunately, Google needs to clean up the existing market a lot. Google has a good thing going for it, I just hope they don't let the vendors steamroll them into making android a wildlife preserve. I had a friend come to me last week with their brand new fascinate and beg me to remove Bing from it. Took me about an hour and lots of messy hacks, but it was done and google was added.

Re:Not all bad points (2, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951018)

The problem isn't with Google though - if you have an open platform it's bound to become fragmented. I've got 3 versions of Python installed on my PC because different Apps need different versions of it. Do I blame Python for this mess? Absolutely not, I blame the developers because of it.

"Android is very fragmented. Many Android [manufacturers], including the two largest, HTC and Motorola, install proprietary user interfaces to differentiate themselves from the commodity Android experience. The user's left to figure it out. Compare this to iPhone, where every handset works the same."

Well exactly, Jobs, the problem is with HTC and Motorola all wanting their own interface to seperate them from the Android experience (meaning, forcing the fragmentation to happen) instead of just going with the latest Android version. If Developers targetted the latest Android, and the cell phone companies went with the latest Android, you'd get the same kind of experience on a droid as the integrated experience on an iPhone, and you'd have the open-ness with it too.

Re:Not all bad points (1)

SkankinMonkey (528381) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951154)

Google has some options to alleviate this though. For one, they could force the vendors to allow users to disable these 3rd party interfaces and leave the bootloader relatively unlocked. These companies shouldn't have to deal with us overclocking and burning out our CPU's and expecting warranty support, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to do it if we choose to. It's a very similar argument to 'owning' your software vs licensing it.

Just work (5, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950846)

iStuff just works until you want to do something Steve hasn't pre-approved. At which point it just doesn't work.

Re:Just work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951010)

Like, for example, holding your phone with the hand that Steve didn't pre-approve.

Re:Just work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951326)

Everything works flawlessly!!! You're just holding it the wrong way dumbass!

Master of the obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33950850)

It's like asking what Steve Ballmer thinks of the iPhone.

Dumbfucks.

"Integrated" sounds better (5, Insightful)

chemicaldave (1776600) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950856)

"When selling to users who want their devices to just work, we believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. And we also think our developers can be more innovative if they can target a singular platform rather than a hundred variants."

Integrated vs fragmented. He's just trying to redefine the terms in his favor.

Open > Closed

vs

Integrated > Fragmented

Well done Steve.

Re:"Integrated" sounds better (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951282)

He's not redefining anything - he's actually using a different argument. There is more than one argument in the world...

Sounds like somebody's feathers got ruffled (1)

Scragglykat (1185337) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950868)

So, let me get this straight, the situation is not that Android lets you customize your phone experience, and the iPhone does not, the situation is that we need people to stop buying Android phones and buy more of ours!

Stevie Likes Control (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950870)

Jobs likes to make his profits through tight control over software applications. Other people go other directions.

Apple's eternal struggle for control (and its markup) turn me off.

The reply is beautiful (0, Redundant)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950878)

Andy Rubin's response to Jobs (via twitter): the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"

Good problems to have... (4, Informative)

rotide (1015173) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950880)

Honestly, most of the "problems" with Android I actually consider to be strengths. Now the "fragmented" argument, yes, I can see where that can hurt in the long run, but then again, PC's are quite fragmented yet which has a larger hold after all these years, Apple or PC?

No need so many stuff... (1)

hilldog (656513) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950886)

In Mother Russia we only need one phone and one app store and one line to bread store. Too much stuff confuse us. Yeah right Steve.

Re:No need so many stuff... (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951116)

In Soviet Russia, confuse stuff YOU!

where every handset works the same (0, Troll)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950892)

Three cheers for conformity! "I Want To Be A Clone" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksP2jYr7mS8 [youtube.com]

Calm down Apple fans - I own a Mac too
(all the way back to the Quadra days).
It's chust a choke!

Re: where every handset works the same (0, Flamebait)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951108)

- (Score:0, Troll)

Someone lacks a sense of humor. What part of "just a joke" did you people not understand? I wish I was a moderator. I thought it was +1 Funny.

Re: where every handset works the same (2, Insightful)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951292)

Alos thought the comparison of Apple to a church was particularly insightful.
(Next I guess I'll be modded troll)

What's Open mean anyways (1)

netrage_is_bad (734782) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950904)

Apparently Jobs is trying to redefine "Open"

Sensationalize much? (3, Insightful)

cpuh0g (839926) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950906)

Wow, what an overheated headline. Jobs did not "lash out". He gave very reasoned response and delineated the significant differences in the philosophy and design of the 2 platforms. It wasnt an angry rant by any means.

Re:Sensationalize much? (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951152)

Yes - these are two different market niches. It's hardly a "lashout"

Re:Sensationalize much? (2, Insightful)

argmanah (616458) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951256)

Wow, what an overheated headline. Jobs did not "lash out". He gave very reasoned response and delineated the significant differences in the philosophy and design of the 2 platforms. It wasnt an angry rant by any means.

You must own an iPhone :).

But seriously, the idea that "integrated" gives the app developer the ability to be more innovative is simply not true when the reality is Apple is the gatekeeper and any app they don't like they just remove from their "integrated" marketplace. His response was not reasoned, it was a marketing ploy. A "reasoned response" would be "We at Apple feel like the users get a better experience when we have full control over what you can and can't do with a device. Since most people are idiots, the average user is happier when we make decisions for them. True freedom results in a worse experience, so we don't believe in freedom." At least that would be intellectually honest.

The real difference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33950916)

This is not about android as such. Look at windows desktop machines. By an HP or fujitsu or whatever and you are going to see a pretty fragmented user experience due to junkware that obscures the regular user interface. Special toolbars everywhere, docks and quick launch crap etc.

It's simply single vendor vs multiple vendors.

Steve Jobs: Informercial Presenter (5, Funny)

eepok (545733) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950924)

Tired all of those choices that TWO things can offer? Confused by those floaty things that enter your vision and then move away when you try to focus on them? Scared by things that don't outright hug you?

Then you should buy Apple!

Apple... for when thinking takes too much thought.

Steve Jobs: i-am-Phony (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951206)

Every Apple handset locks you out of using the phone the way you want to just the same. Every handset fails just the same if you touch it in the right place. Every handset requires you to buy apps from the same store.

Thank you Mr Jobs, now take your locked down phone, your cloud and your rant and fuck off. Don't let your iPhone hit yer ass on the way out.

This all seems very familiar.... (3, Interesting)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950928)

Isn't this the same "Cathedral vs. the Bazaar" argument?

Re:This all seems very familiar.... (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951202)

In this case it's the Macher vs. the Fixer. Whatever happens, they're just figuring out how to divide the value of our efforts.

Choice is good for consumers (1, Insightful)

slapout (93640) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950936)

iOS does things one way, Android does things another way. Some people prefer one, some people prefer the other. Some like Coca-cola. Some like Pepsi. Just pick the one you want.

Re:Choice is good for consumers (2, Interesting)

SkankinMonkey (528381) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951008)

Yea, people fail to recognize that they're both great systems.

Re:Choice is good for consumers (2, Interesting)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951252)


Yea, people fail to recognize that they're both great systems.

Interesting observation. Read stuff from a bunch of iPhone fans and it pretty much uniformly toots Apple's horn. Read from stuff from the Android fans and you'll see they're much more likely to be bashing Apple rather than raving about the good stuff within Android.

"just work"? (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950968)

Saying the iPhone "just works" is a bit disingenius due to the... lack of actual work applications.

Granted, the same can be said for Android. But consider: "working" on Windows Mobile 6.5 is somewhat more possible than on either Android or iPhone due to good PIM and Office integration, as well as the many other tools which can interface with, and utilize, said functionality. FOr being as fragmented and crusty as WinMo is, it's still more capable than either.

If 'just working' for you is having a unified UI across multiple 'personal' devices slated for different roles so you can check Facebook statuses and your gmail/iCal/whatever and play games, sure. the iPhone 'just works' by those requirements. Just don't expect anything 'complex' (such as anything a common PDA was capable of as recent as uh almost 10 years ago).

Now, the Palm Pre... there's a phone that "just works".

Is this "lashing" out? (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950974)

I didn't hear the audio of this but the text seems that Jobs is stating his opinion and his reasons behind it. Sure the man is opinionated, and he's known for being a jerk. Many here on slashdot won't agree with him but I won't consider this lashing out. Throwing a chair at a soon-to-be former employee is lashing out.

Dear Steve, (2, Insightful)

acoustix (123925) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950976)

I want a phone that will let me install whatever app I choose to install regardless of who made it or what store sold it. For me, Android and BlackBerry work best. For the not-so-techy or those who don't care if they're in a walled garden, an iOS device will suit them just fine.

Regards,
Me

Dear acoustix, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951228)

Dear acoustix,

Then perhaps you should buy an Android phone or BlackBerry.

Regards,
Steve Jobs

The answer is... (2, Informative)

Aquina (1923974) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950982)

The answer is, that none of the two are superior to free operating systems like BSD, GNU/ or for e.g. FreeDOS. In my opinion Apple is no better than Microsoft -- even worse. They kicked out all of the devs from the Quarz project, closed their OS over years and broke the underlying BSD. So if Jobs says users will benefit from "more integrated" stuff one should state the question at which costs that happens. I don't trust Google either and will *never ever* use their OS (not even for less critical operations). I have to mention though that I would choose the latter of those two in case they were the only OS in the world. I would do that simply to be able to have a choice regarding a proprietary user interface! :-)

Boeing versus Airbus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33950986)

Boeing had an A, B or C variant for many of their aircraft. Airbus let customers choose all sorts of short-run customizations. Guess which company afterward spent a mountain of treasure on maintenance? Whole armies of technical writers were employed by Airbus just to manage the documentation sets at a tremendous after sale hit to profitability.

Surprise surprise (1)

mrjb (547783) | more than 3 years ago | (#33950990)

Headline should have read "Manufacturer Claims Own Product Better Than Competitor". That's all just marketing. In the end, it's up to the consumer to decide what suits them better. For me, it is the platform that does what I tell it to, rather than the platform that tells me what I can or cannot do; no amount of so-called "integration" is going to sway me to the other side.

Single, close enviroment? (1)

Ryanrule (1657199) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951000)

Windows?

fragmented? (4, Interesting)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951014)

Yeah, right. iOS is about as fragmented as Android is. And the people I've talked to with iPhones older than version 4 are having real troubled with the latest version of iOS on their iPhone 3* phones - majorly slow is what I've heard.

While there is _some_ truth to Android not being as open as Google would lay claim to, it's certainly more open than iOS is, and when it comes t getting an app out, Android is the platform benchmark for letting anyone release an app. Apple's a joke in this area. I don't know how app distribution works on Blackberry/Windows Phone platforms, though.

You can not only release your own app on your own website, you can actually open your own Android app MARKETPLACE. Sorry, but that's a level of openness Apple can't and won't compete with.

This coming from the company that... (3, Informative)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951050)

has arguably the most arbitrary and capricious process for vetting the applications produced for its platform of any platform provider around?

Seriously, my God man, it takes balls so big you need to be checked for testicular cancer to have Apple's track record in dealing with iPhone developers to get on Google's case here.

Sure, maybe the Android platform will end up truly and badly fragmented, but it is not there yet. Furthermore, at least there is always the option of people creating their custom images and processes for helping end users get around vendor crap.

Sounds like someone is... (1)

The Hatchet (1766306) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951054)

Compensating for something. He is just pissed that people have freedom on the android, which means porn can exist, and so can non-apple-approved bullshit. Common, yes the fragmentation is a problem with the android market, but at least there is freedom there too.

Your fault-should have gotten a Palm Pre (1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951068)

Choose Android or iPhone-or you could have a Palm Pre with a full Linux-based OS. You can root it with the blessing of the developer, and you still have a monolithic app store for non-power users. Also, cloud-aware contacts management that whips the buttocks of any other address book. But you idiots got all wet for Apple or Google and forgot who the true innovator was!

It's a good re-frame of the issue (1)

peacefinder (469349) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951074)

Jobs totally dodged the open/closed issue. But his attempt to reframe the difference as fragmented/integrated is not just a good PR move for them, but a telling point. Apple's strength has always been as a system integrator, which brings substantial value to the ordinary user.

A lot more openness from them still would be nice, though. :-)

Speaking of fragmented... (5, Insightful)

jordan314 (1052648) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951096)

I'm surprised fragmentation is his choice of argument against Android. There are several things iOS does better than Android, but it's getting harder and harder to develop for iOS because of fragmentation. Hell, it used to be called iPhone OS, not iOS, but now you have to make sure your code works on previous generation iPhones, the 4's retina display, the iPad, and the iPod Touch. Resolution differences, support for multitasking, and camera differences are all getting more difficult to manage!

And that, kids is what we call... (5, Insightful)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951106)

'Changing the subject'.

"Folks have been saying your platform seems a bit proprietary and closed."
"Hey, how about them White Sox?"
"Your platform might be proprietary and closed."
"Yeah, well so is your mother!"
"Your platform is proprietary and closed."
"Oh yeah? Well, you just must not like having a good experience with your phone."

The problem is that all the more reasonable responses might paint them into a corner where they have to offer an option for a sandbox for a more open use of their platform - and their strategy precludes that as an option. So, like with elections where offering a valid option to voters is too risky (to your various monied interests), insulting the other option becomes the rule of the day.

Ryan Fenton

Steve Jobs is disingenuous too (1)

amigabill (146897) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951126)

After all, the iPhone is simply one part of the overall fragmented smartphone market. People are confused, choosing not just between one Android phone and another vs choosing a consistent iPhone separate market, they also have to bother with confusion in choosing Android, iPhone, Blackberry, Windows 6, or Windows 7, etc. iPhone provides consistency on Apple devices, but that's a very particular corner of the smartphone market, and is only consistent with itself in the same way that all Droid X phones are consistent with other Droid X phones. It's all semantics, it's marketing, and it's B.S.

It's called... (1)

javelinco (652113) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951184)

It's called "changing the conversation". Steve Jobs is rightly pointing out the problems that Android is facing, that Apple is not. And he's detailing them well, and discussing Apple's real advantages in this area - their clear focus on this aspect of the business will speak well to the business people on the call.

That said, he's "changing the conversation" - which is another way of saying "change the subject" - he's avoiding the real issues, and the true accusations of Android fans (and Google) - that Android is more open then Apple.

Overall, the only thing to really note here is whether or not Steve manages to change the conversation - the same way that anti-iPhone users managed to change the conversation about the launch of the new iPhone to the reception problems - and how Steve failed to change the conversation by trying to shift it into a "general problem that everyone has". Marketing 101, ya'all.

Steve Bubbie (1)

xednieht (1117791) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951214)

I'd have no problem with the iPhone or the App store if you weren't such a PRICK, oh yeah and let me choose my own F*CKING phone company.

Apps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951218)

app store isnt the only app place for apple. What about Openappmarkt, Cydia? Apple, don't point fingers at others to cover your own.

Boo Hoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33951244)

I really feel bad for Steve. Instead of Steve defining how his product is the best and all of the competition is crap. He has to live life in a world where Google has managed to define Android as open and iOS as closed.

He does not like that. Most companies have to deal with the fact they don't always control all the spin and how the public perceives the company and their product. After creating so much of it on his own, it is nice to see Steve experience some reality created by someone else.

I'm going to go with Fragmented (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951260)

I have had an Android phone for only a few months now. In that time, I have learned much about it especially about how to un-soft-brick it. But also, I have noted compatibility problems between 1.5 android and 1.6+ android as there are numerous apps that are either distributed twice to support both groups of versions or only supports 1.6 and above. I have also noticed that some apps only work with particular models of phones. These are some real problems.

But given the choice between Android and iPhone, I still have to favor Android.

iPhone is locked and restricted in ways that simply make me uncomfortable. The non-removable battery still bugs me. I'm not "every user" though and so my opinion on the matter is pretty much worthless as a measure of what "the people" like.

"The people" don't see a lot of difference between iPhone and Android. "The people" see a phone with a touch screen and snazzy graphics and are happy with that experience. I see people on the bus and on trains poking, touching, sliding and pinching on both iPhone and Android phones with equal joy.

Jobs is probably most bugged by the fact that Android phones look enough like iPhone that people are rather confused. Calling Apple "closed" is pretty accurate. They are closed and limited and restricted.

As Apple is the only maker of iPhone compatible devices, of course there's no fragmentation. And when a market is OPEN to compete, there will be lots of differentiation out there. So more than the phones themselves, but the iPhone market is also very closed, limited and restricted. The Android market is open by comparison. But yeah... there is more "trouble" associated with Android wares. There is certainly more crapware installed. It's all part of the give and take of it all. I say it's worth the trouble to be open.

Confusion (0, Troll)

Un pobre guey (593801) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951288)

Consumer walks into a shoe store and sees 136 types of shoes:

"No! No! I'm so confused! I'm left to figure it out. Why doesn't every shoe look the same? I want my shoes to just work, and I believe integrated will trump fragmented every time. I also think shoe designers can be more innovative if they can target a singular shoe type rather than a hundred variants. Just look the Android Shoe Marketplace, where there are at least three other shoe stores being launched by vendors, causing confusion for consumers and more work for shoe designers!"

Let's not even get into Android vs. iPhone sales trends [cnn.com] .

I've never seen Steve scared before! (1)

rastoboy29 (807168) | more than 3 years ago | (#33951330)

Actually I have a high enough opinion of his judgment to now believe that Android is going to take over the world.

Honestly I daresay Android will become the legendary Linux Desktop, one day.
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