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Apple Announces iLife '11, FaceTime Mac, Lion, Mac App Store, MacBook Air

CmdrTaco posted about 4 years ago | from the get-an-ilife dept.

Apple 827

Apple once again streamed their latest keynote where they unveiled iLife '11 (more fullscreen and Facebook in iPhoto, Audio editing and automatic trailers in iMovie, Rhythm correction and lessons in Garage Band). FaceTime for the Mac will connect video chat to phones with a Beta starting today. Next we get a preview of OS X Lion which will have an App Store and new UI bits shipping this summer. The Mac App Store will launch on Snow Leopard in 90 days. The New MacBook Air is under 3lbs, 13.3" screen, Core 2 Duo, solid state only storage. There's also an 11.6" version starting at $999 with 64gb of storage shipping today.

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Steve Jobs is a douche (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33963644)

Buy the newest and shiniest!

App Store looks interesting... (2, Interesting)

mlts (1038732) | about 4 years ago | (#33963660)

It gets rid of a lot of developer headaches, including finding a place with high bandwidth mirrors for consumers to download and fetch updates.

Yes, Apple gets a 30% chunk, but IMHO, it is a good thing to have long term.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33963704)

One step closer to macos lockdown just like the iOS platform

Re:App Store looks interesting... (1)

trparky (846769) | about 4 years ago | (#33964038)

Yep, that's what I see as well.

Is there really a market for this? (3, Interesting)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | about 4 years ago | (#33963832)

I mean, App Store for iPhone / iPod touch? I get that. It's basically the first of its kind and creates its own market share. Apps which would have been trivial and/or freeware for a desktop could be sold to mobile users if they were good or early to market enough. Kinds of apps that would be made wholly useless given a full-size-screen web browser and a keyboard could have a market, too.

But for the Mac? When roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?

Re:Is there really a market for this? (3, Interesting)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | about 4 years ago | (#33963870)

People are already doing this with Steam. If anything this is a warning shot across Valve's bow for doing all the hard work of getting Steam up on Mac. Have your game just on the Steam store, or get it on the Mac Store too? Well crap...I'm all for this though as long as Apple doesn't have such a jacked approval process as the iTunes store.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 4 years ago | (#33964048)

Apple has had this for a while. Look in the Store - you'll see lots of Apple software (including stuff from the Evil Twins, Adobe and Microsoft). This sounds like it's more for smaller / indie apps as I can't see Adobe or Microsoft (or Autocad or any other big company) giving Apple 30% of anything.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964052)

Both can co-exist. But Steam had the right idea years ago. Microsoft should have bought them a long time ago and implemented with Windows.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1)

Kenshin (43036) | about 4 years ago | (#33964064)

Steam caters to a specific market, though, so I think they'll be alright.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (3, Insightful)

Aphrika (756248) | about 4 years ago | (#33964114)

True, but Steam is way more than just a download tool. Look at something like Team Fortress 2 with achievements, friend lists, in game purchases, chat, game server hosting, locating etc. and you'll see what I mean.

To even match that, Apple will have to do a lot of work, and by a lot I mean an order of magnitude more than the PoS that is Game Center on the iPhone.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (3, Interesting)

imamac (1083405) | about 4 years ago | (#33963878)

"Roughly all"?? I would characterize it as "relatively few".

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1, Informative)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | about 4 years ago | (#33964090)

I know a few dozen Mac owners, and of them, only one's not dual booting Windows -- and trust me, that guy's not technical enough to figure out even a simple App Store.

But my sample may be skewed because most of the people I know with Macs are trying to get work done with them.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1)

bsDaemon (87307) | about 4 years ago | (#33964316)

I don't know anyone dual booting Windows on a Mac, although I do know several people with VMWare or Parallels containers housing Windows. I have Windows 7 x64 Professional in VMWare on my Macbook Pro and my iMac at work, and my co-worker has Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7 x64 Professional, for when we are doing QA on Windows builds of the software we make for controlling our product.

I just assumed virtualization had made dual booting a relic of the 90s that we never needed to talk about again.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964320)

11 MBPs here, not a single one of us dual boots windows.

My sample might be skewed because we are all from an SGI/Solaris background, and none of our software runs on windows.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (4, Insightful)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | about 4 years ago | (#33964256)

I wouldn't. Just at the place where I work. 47 mac desktops. 45 have bootcamp installed. 40 also have VMware fusion installed to run windows while they are running OSX. 37 never boot into OSX at all. We have to get them to boot into OSX once a month for updates for OSX. That itself is a major undertaking. The 7 who do not have bootcamp have never used anything but apple computers.

On the laptop front, 4 out of 39 apple laptops do not have bootcamp and VMware fusion installed.

Most of the people here wanted the apple hardware and not OSX. I am not sure how that is in other work places, but since this place has corporate license agreements and can install windows on many machines, they make use of it. I would say if people have access to windows, they are likely to install it on their apple machine. Even if it is a 'just in case' sort of thing.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (3, Insightful)

powerlord (28156) | about 4 years ago | (#33963952)

Well, we know that Jobs loves electronic distribution (not supporting Blu-Ray playback for instance, in favor of Digital Downloads from the iTunes store).

There is probably a market for this though. As more and more people get used to using iOS, they get used to the AppStore. Most average would probably jump at the idea of running a "real computer" with the same "ease of use" features (even though you or I will cringe).

How often do most people usually install software?

The OS comes pre-installed. They MIGHT install an Office Suite or a Web Browser right after they get a new computer. After that, the only time they install software is if they need more functionality (yearly Tax Return Software/New Printer/New Game/Video Editing Software). With the exception of Gaming, most people don't really install new software very often once they have a web-browser and an Office Suite. For them, the idea of Easily Installing/Deinstalling software with just one or two mouse clicks is a compelling idea.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1, Funny)

jonbryce (703250) | about 4 years ago | (#33964088)

We are used to "App stores" in the form of apt-get repositories or similar in other distributions. It is one of the things that makes linux so much easier to use than the competition.

What Steve Jobs is introducing is a bit like that except that you need a separate interface for each different app store you subscribe to (Apple, Steam's Valve, etc) and it has the facility to support payment for the software being downloaded.

If you don't have to run the Apple updater, the Microsoft updater for MS Office, the Adobe updater for Creative Suite and so on, that in itself would be a good reason to buy your software from the App Store rather than from somewhere else.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964030)

I mean, App Store for iPhone / iPod touch? I get that. It's basically the first of its kind and creates its own market share. Apps which would have been trivial and/or freeware for a desktop could be sold to mobile users if they were good or early to market enough. Kinds of apps that would be made wholly useless given a full-size-screen web browser and a keyboard could have a market, too.

It's the same idea as repositories on other Unix distros, except modified for the huge closed-source/commercial software base of Mac developers. A central point for finding, distributing, and updating software.

But for the Mac? When roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?

People who really want Windows apps don't buy Macs. Most Mac buyers don't run Windows at all. Most of those that do only do so for a few "legacy" apps, or for games.

citation needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964036)

roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?

Where's the evidence to support that claim? Of the many people I know using Macs, only one runs Windows (via parallels) and it's so they can access a crappy, legacy Active X web app. The only people I know dual booting Apple hardware are running linux.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | about 4 years ago | (#33964198)

When roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?

Citation please.

I know 20 people in my department that hasn't run a windows program on their Mac for over a year.

Re:Is there really a market for this? (1)

lowtekk (518270) | about 4 years ago | (#33964318)

But for the Mac? When roughly all Mac users are dual booting Windows anyway?

I'm curious to know where your "roughly all Mac Users" statistic came from.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | about 4 years ago | (#33963894)

AppFresh [metaquark.de]
MacUpdate [macupdate.com]
I would say VersionTracker, but it appears cnet Downloads now owns them and made it as useless as cnet downloads.

I also have MacPorts so:
alias u='sudo port selfupdate;sudo port upgrade outdated;sudo port -f uninstall inactive'

Re:App Store looks interesting... (1)

ElGanzoLoco (642888) | about 4 years ago | (#33964044)

I would say VersionTracker, but it appears cnet Downloads now owns them and made it as useless as cnet downloads.

Indeed, hadn't been on VersionTracker for a while and was surprised by the crap it's become. It was the one easy-to-use Mac software repository. I would point it out to all the new Mac users when they were looking for specific shareware, usually they found what they wanted pretty quickly.

Sad.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (4, Insightful)

nmb3000 (741169) | about 4 years ago | (#33963924)

It gets rid of a lot of developer headaches, including finding a place with high bandwidth mirrors for consumers to download and fetch updates.

Yes, Apple gets a 30% chunk, but IMHO, it is a good thing to have long term.

Wow, and people talk about the "Microsoft tax". How long until the only way to get software on your Mac desktop is via Apple's store and all Mac developers are required to pay a 30% tribute to Apple? And, since taxes are passed on to consumers, every time you as a customer buys an "app" from the store it's really you who's paying that insane 30%.

But that's beside the main point. Do you really thing most smaller developers can't find a place to host their website and software which costs less than 30% of all their sales? Keep in mind that most developers don't need Steam/Microsoft/Amazon levels of bandwidth.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (3, Insightful)

GlassHeart (579618) | about 4 years ago | (#33964046)

How long until the only way to get software on your Mac desktop is via Apple's store and all Mac developers are required to pay a 30% tribute to Apple?

As soon as Apple can convince Microsoft and Adobe to hand over 30% of their revenue from Office and Photoshop. I like a conspiracy theory as much as anybody... no, wait, I actually don't.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (3, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 4 years ago | (#33964232)

Nonsense, large vendors like Microsoft and Adobe will get a free pass (since they're platform-movers.) Everyone else, though, will have to pay up.

You don't seriously believe that all the major game studios are doing the 70/30 thing for their releases on the App Store, do you?

Re:App Store looks interesting... (3, Insightful)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | about 4 years ago | (#33964240)

As soon as Apple can convince Microsoft and Adobe to hand over 30% of their revenue from Office and Photoshop.

You say that as though it's a good thing that Mac owners are now essentially dependent on Microsoft and Adobe of all horrible things to safeguard their freedom of choice, as surreal as it sounds.

Those two companies provide pieces of software too crucial for Apple to flip them the bird... for now. Otherwise you'd already have the scenario you deride as a conspiracy theory.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (5, Interesting)

Paradise Pete (33184) | about 4 years ago | (#33964102)

Wow, and people talk about the "Microsoft tax".

It's not exactly free to do it on your own. For a small shop it's a huge benefit to not have to deal with all that infrastructure and hiring and payment processing. A one or two person team can focus on development and not worry about the other headaches. It will bring me back to developing Mac software.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (2, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 4 years ago | (#33964130)

Do you really thing most smaller developers can't find a place to host their website and software which costs less than 30% of all their sales? Keep in mind that most developers don't need Steam/Microsoft/Amazon levels of bandwidth.

I think you're missing the point. Indie developers don't need the bandwidth, they need the exposure. Apple potentially gives this to them, assuming they don't screw it up like the iOS app store with 20 billion useless and annoying apps.

Re:App Store looks interesting... (4, Insightful)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | about 4 years ago | (#33964000)

As long as it is not the only place to buy applications for the Mac, then that's ok. We already have steam for games and that works well.

The issue I have with the app store on the iPhone/iPad is that if it falls into a category that doesn't meet the puritan standards, then you can't buy it. It would be nice to see a place for application that are API compliant, but don't fill some of the other check-boxes.

Will the app store have the same lock down? (5, Insightful)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | about 4 years ago | (#33963692)

Will the app store have the same lock down?

With no apps that can use plug ins?

No games with user maps or mods?

No sex apps?

No fat app?

$99 year fee even for free apps?

fixed price points?

will you be able to buy app and use it on all systems you own? will app dev be able to have app that you need to buy per system?

can apple pull a app at any time?

Will there be a max app size?

Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33963860)

Will the app store have the same lock down?

With no apps that can use plug ins?

No games with user maps or mods?

No sex apps?

No fat app?

$99 year fee even for free apps?

fixed price points?

will you be able to buy app and use it on all systems you own? will app dev be able to have app that you need to buy per system?

can apple pull a app at any time?

Will there be a max app size?

Yes

Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (0)

qw(name) (718245) | about 4 years ago | (#33963934)

As long as there's a farting app I'm all set.

Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (-1, Flamebait)

Kildjean (871084) | about 4 years ago | (#33964008)

Will the app store have the same lock down?

With no apps that can use plug ins?

No games with user maps or mods?

No sex apps?

No fat app?

$99 year fee even for free apps?

fixed price points?

will you be able to buy app and use it on all systems you own? will app dev be able to have app that you need to buy per system?

can apple pull a app at any time?

Will there be a max app size?

There is no $99/year, Steve mentioned that if downloaded on one mac, the app would work on all the macs you own without buying it again.

for the rest of your stupid questions, you should wait till someone else has the time to answer them.

Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (4, Informative)

0100010001010011 (652467) | about 4 years ago | (#33964042)

The $99/year is for developers, not consumers.

Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964104)

There will be $99/year I imagine, seeing as there is a "Mac Developer Program" a la "iPhone Developer Program".

Re:Will the app store have the same lock down? (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | about 4 years ago | (#33964154)

No fat app?

Well, Snow Leopard doesn't support PowerPC machines, so there's no point in having the app support PPC, but it does support 32-bit processors, so you could have a two-way fat app with x86 and x86-64 slices.

Ron Gilbert (5, Insightful)

hansamurai (907719) | about 4 years ago | (#33963730)

As Ron Gilbert just put it [twitter.com]
"For you Apple apologists claiming Apple will never lock down the Mac, step one is in place and you all let it happen."

Re:Ron Gilbert (2, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 4 years ago | (#33963852)

And people bitch at me when I say that Apple is driving towards exactly this. The only reason they don't go the couple steps further to defeat jailbreaks is because it keeps people fucking around on their systems instead of pushing for something truly open.

Also, eventually Apple will shift to iOS. At that point, the only question of lock down is "how and to what degree" since the answer is inevitably "yes."

Re:Ron Gilbert (2, Interesting)

Desler (1608317) | about 4 years ago | (#33963916)

And people bitch at me when I say that Apple is driving towards exactly this.

Because they aren't. You know it's funny how Linux users constantly bitch and moan about Apple and Microsoft not having something comparable to a respository for their OSes and yet when Apple does something just like that it's now claimed that the OS is going to be locked-down despite the fact that Apple has repeatedly stated that OS X won't be.

Re:Ron Gilbert (5, Insightful)

arose (644256) | about 4 years ago | (#33963984)

Because they aren't.

In the comments of this article? Really? Because Apple stated so? Apple denies things that are announced the next month on a regular basis, why is their statement on the future of OS X to be believed?

Re:Ron Gilbert (4, Insightful)

curunir (98273) | about 4 years ago | (#33964254)

why is their statement on the future of OS X to be believed?

Why is the paranoia of non-mac users posting in a web forum to be believed? Why should we worry when Apple is adding functionality, even if that functionality is locked down. The moment they start locking down existing functionality, I'll be the first to protest and I'll immediately start to consider abandoning OS X for Ubuntu. But none of what they announced today impacts my ability to do all the non-locked-down things that I do on my Mac.

I can still fire up a terminal window and have the full power of a CLI. I can probably even do that from their new Launch Pad app launcher too. I can still install the development tools so that I can build and install standard Unix software and use XCode to build Mac software. I can still install Eclipse when I want a different development environment (basically when I'm not developing Cocoa-based apps.) I can even fire up Emacs or Vim from within the the CLI, though I prefer working in either Eclipse or Qt Creator (when working with Qt.) And I can still install apps in any of the ways that I've always done...whether that be by MacPorts, Fink or the traditional application installation methods (dragging the .app to Applications or installing the .pkg.)

So why should I believe any of the "they're turning the Mac into the iPad" hysteria? They've just added an iPad-like layer on top of the traditional Mac environment without removing any of the access to that environment. I'm still in control of when/whether I wish to access stuff through the new layer or whether I'd like to do things the way I'm accustomed to doing them.

Re:Ron Gilbert (3, Insightful)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | about 4 years ago | (#33964324)

Why is the paranoia of non-mac users posting in a web forum to be believed

Because, historically, it usually turns out to be correct.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

mujadaddy (1238164) | about 4 years ago | (#33964002)

despite the fact that Apple has repeatedly stated that OS X won't be

One word: Firewire.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

dgatwood (11270) | about 4 years ago | (#33964100)

What about FireWire? It's on every current Mac model except the MacBook Air and the non-pro MacBook.

Or are you still whining about iPods?

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

mmaniaci (1200061) | about 4 years ago | (#33964314)

What about FireWire? It's on every current Mac model except the MacBook Air and the non-pro MacBook.

And still nobody uses it.

it's different (2, Insightful)

t2t10 (1909766) | about 4 years ago | (#33964018)

Linux repositories are a general purpose mechanism; you can point at any "app store" you like with them. Furthermore, they do extensive dependency management and checking.

Apple's App Store gives you one source of applications and it doesn't seem to do much in the way of dependency management.

Apple clearly got the idea from Linux distributions and other commercial vendors, but they are misusing the idea to lock down their machines.

Re:it's different (5, Insightful)

Guy Harris (3803) | about 4 years ago | (#33964238)

Linux repositories are a general purpose mechanism; you can point at any "app store" you like with them. Furthermore, they do extensive dependency management and checking.

Apple's App Store gives you one source of applications

To be precise, it gives you one source of applications for whatever mechanism the App Store uses; nothing requires that you get all your apps from there, but you might have to go through the hideously burdensome process of clicking a few links in your browser, maybe typing in your credit card number, and answering a few questions from the installer or dragging an app bundle to /Applications to buy and install an app from the vendor.

and it doesn't seem to do much in the way of dependency management.

How many dependencies between downloadable components do OS X apps have? Linux repositories (and BSD ports/packages collections) have lots of libraries in them, and apps (and other libraries) might depend on them, so dependency checking is useful there. OS X apps, for better or worse, tend to be self-contained - either they only use libraries and frameworks that come with the OS, or they bring along the other libraries and frameworks for the ride.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

Microlith (54737) | about 4 years ago | (#33964062)

I'm just drawing from their past trend in the mobile arena. I fully believe that they'll start moving things up the stack, and bring their lock down with them.

Go ahead, I want to hear more of your pro-DRM, pro-lockdown arguments.

The DRM won't be in OS X (1)

copponex (13876) | about 4 years ago | (#33964202)

The DRM will be in the new operating system that replaces it. iOS 5, probably.

Apple can keep all of their promises, and you'll still get fucked. One Vendor; One Master. There is no apologizing your way out of it.

Re:Ron Gilbert (5, Insightful)

mewsenews (251487) | about 4 years ago | (#33963856)

Ubuntu also has an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center]app store[/url], that doesn't mean anything is locked down

Re:Ron Gilbert (0, Redundant)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 4 years ago | (#33963888)

I never thought I'd see the day when there'd be a major desktop OS that's even more closed than Windows. But, here it is. I have the nagging suspicion that Apple is indeed going to turn anything but the MacPro into a larger version of an iPhone, or the equivalent of an XBox. Goodbye Mac, hello Linux.

Re:Ron Gilbert (2, Insightful)

Radicals (514209) | about 4 years ago | (#33963912)

This is just another nice income stream for Apple. Does anyone really think that Apple would remove every other way of installing software from the Mac? They'd have to deny shell usage, direct access to the file system, prevent browsers from downloading executables, etc. I can't see it happening on OS X- they need something for developers to develop on, after all.

But, if they started to make larger iOS devices (as the rumor mill is saying lately) I'm sure they'll be as locked down as an iPhone.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

arose (644256) | about 4 years ago | (#33964134)

They'd have to deny shell usage, direct access to the file system, prevent browsers from downloading executables, etc.

Why wouldn't they deny shell usage for the average user and put a fancy way to access files on top of your jailed file system? Browsers don't need to do anything, just prevent users from being able to actually run them.

I can't see it happening on OS X- they need something for developers to develop on, after all.

What would prevent them from selling devkits with severe (legal) restrictions?

It's not whether or not they can do it or want to do it, because it's pretty clear that they can and want to. It's whether they have a critical mass of app developers who will put up with these restrictions, if they do, it will happen.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

metamatic (202216) | about 4 years ago | (#33963990)

Yup, I predicted this is how it would go down too [ath0.com] .

Getting everyone hooked on the app store is phase 1. If it catches on fast enough, they may be able to start imposing the lockdown in OS X Lion--that's why they're launching the app store now. Otherwise, they'll wait until the release after Lion.

After 23 years as a Mac user, my days as an Apple customer might be numbered.

Re:Ron Gilbert (3, Insightful)

slyborg (524607) | about 4 years ago | (#33964004)

I don't see the problem here. As with IBM, and then Microsoft, once Apple gets too arrogant and thinks it has everything its own way, people will be ready for a change, and some new company or technology will yank the rug out from under them. Don't like what Apple is doing? Buy something else.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1, Insightful)

adamwright (536224) | about 4 years ago | (#33964086)

I'm curious as to how an App Store indicates the coming armageddon of a "locked down Mac". It will not be the only place to get Mac software (said right in the keynote). The majority of Mac buyers are the Mom, Pop and arty university student base, who really don't know of the existence of most Mac software. As a developer, a storefront for my software built right into the desktop of every new Mac sold is hardly going to be a bad thing - I get millions of eyeballs and potential one click customers for a 30% cut. If I don't like those terms, I can use the traditional distribution methods.

Now, if you're going into hypotheticals, they *might* in the future remove the traditional distribution, thus breaking all software that all their customers have ever bought for earlier versions of the Mac, and alienating every big developer out there that currently publish on the platform (Microsoft, Valve, AutoCAD, etc). But then, *gasp*, MS have an app store in Windows Phone 7 - they might do the same for Windows 8! And Google, they've pulled items from the Android store in the past - they might suddenly require that all developers submit to DNA testing! We can sit and come up with nonsensical predictions, that have limited grounding in reality and no grounding in basic business sense, forever. If Apple eventually "lock down the Mac", well, then I'll switch to Linux. Until then, hyperbole about what "might" happen, despite there being no evidence of it, is just stupid.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

elrous0 (869638) | about 4 years ago | (#33964258)

I would say to you "Denial isn't just a river in Egypt," but that really only works when it's spoken. I'll just stick with "The writing is on the wall, regardless of whether you choose to read it or not."

Re:Ron Gilbert (2, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | about 4 years ago | (#33964156)

It's really only a matter of time now. And, mark my words, Apple fanatics will still find a way to defend it when Apple moves to lock it down (probably within the next 1-5 years).

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

oh_my_080980980 (773867) | about 4 years ago | (#33964174)

Ummm...Microsoft's Office 365.....

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

onefriedrice (1171917) | about 4 years ago | (#33964250)

As Ron Gilbert just put it [twitter.com] "For you Apple apologists claiming Apple will never lock down the Mac, step one is in place and you all let it happen."

That's not going to happen for a very simple reason. When the iPhone was originally released, it had a lot less than an App Store. It was easy to accept the App Store on the iPhone because it actually made the device more useful and was better than having no apps at all. That situation is not comparable to the Mac which is already as capable as we know a desktop computer to be. Nobody is going to go for a computer marketed as a desktop or laptop that is locked down to a single source of programs because we already have our expectations of what a desktop computer is.

Basically, releasing a Mac locked down to a single source of programs would receive the same backlash as the original iPhone did, because at that point we already had the expectation that you should be able to install apps on your smartphone. We already have the expectation that we should be able to install anything on our desktops and laptops.

Re:Ron Gilbert (1)

thetzar (30126) | about 4 years ago | (#33964274)

And in other news, the sky is falling.

Re:Ron Gilbert (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964298)

As Ron Gilbert just put it [twitter.com]
"For you Apple apologists claiming Apple will never lock down the Mac, step one is in place and you all let it happen."

And I would care because?

"App store" - So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33963754)

As with every Windows/Mac OS feature, Linux did it first and better.

Re:"App store" - So? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33963764)

Linux does it, but it sure as hell isn't better.

Re:"App store" - So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964200)

I know! I mean - where's the developer fee? Where's the lock-down? That's no way to ensure an insanely great experience.

OSX (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | about 4 years ago | (#33963766)

I am interested about the App Store coming to the desktop now.

Any hardware news?

Re:OSX (2, Funny)

imamac (1083405) | about 4 years ago | (#33963900)

New MacBook Air...the love child of a MacBook and iPad...

Not very exciting (0, Troll)

iONiUM (530420) | about 4 years ago | (#33963796)

This is a pretty lame release, as things go. Actually, it's worse than lame as they're now locking down Mac OSX just like they do with iOS.

The strange thing is that Apple *used* to be all pro-open with the "we run Darwin, Windows sucks" stuff back in the day when they claimed closed and integrated systems (Windows + IE) were horrible. My how the turn tables...

Re:Not very exciting (5, Informative)

schnikies79 (788746) | about 4 years ago | (#33963850)

They are *not* locking down OSX. You will still be able to get apps anywhere you want.

Re:Not very exciting (2, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 4 years ago | (#33963980)

Correction: they're not doing it now. Wait a few years. Just like Microsoft with its Xbox - ultimately, it will have Windows for business, and XBox for consumers. Apple will work on a similar distribution.

Re:Not very exciting (2, Funny)

Duradin (1261418) | about 4 years ago | (#33964224)

Then RMS rides in on his gnu brandishing his katana and saves the day.
</nerdgasm>

Re:Not very exciting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964022)

For now...

Re:Not very exciting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33964122)

For now.

Call me paranoid, but Steve has shown how against interoperability and competition he is. Apple will assert their control and do it.

Re:Not very exciting (5, Informative)

Desler (1608317) | about 4 years ago | (#33963866)

Actually, it's worse than lame as they're now locking down Mac OSX just like they do with iOS.

You mean except for the fact that it was explicitly stated that the app store wasn't the exclusive place to get apps for Mac OS X? How can it be locked down when nothing has changed beyond having a new source for downloading apps from?

Re:Not very exciting (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | about 4 years ago | (#33964094)

Because some people hate Apple and everything Apple does, even when it is exactly what they've been wanting and calling for. When Apple creates what they want, controlled by Apple, it is immediately called draconian and evil ... because Apple did it.

That's why.

I've seen people suggest that Apple do something, then in the very same breath say that even if Apple did what they asked for, they would never use it, because it is Apple. Go figure.

RTFA? (2, Insightful)

Ksevio (865461) | about 4 years ago | (#33963798)

I tried to RTFA in this story, but I couldn't find it. Is it that hard to include a link to a source?

Re:RTFA? (1)

RazorSharp (1418697) | about 4 years ago | (#33964066)

www.apple.com

Integrated v Fragmented (4, Funny)

UninformedCoward (1738488) | about 4 years ago | (#33963828)

more fullscreen and Facebook in iPhoto, Audio editing and automatic trailers in iMovie, Rhythm correction and lessons in Garage Band

Why can't all this functionality be available through one integrated program instead of being fragmented over many sources?! The end user will get confused!

Best of both worlds? (1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | about 4 years ago | (#33963898)

I'm interested in seeing some of the apps on the Mac -- there are quite a few that do one very useful job very well. So I welcome the chance to use these under OS X.

And no, I'm not one of the trolls that somehow believes that traditional apps will be restricted under OS X. I don't even see how you could think that traditional apps could be delivered via an App Store-like interface, or that traditional software on the Mac will be uprooted for the App Store. There will always be apps too fat for an iDevice, which require a non-touch interface etc, and I don't see those going away ever.

SSD only (1)

Palmsie (1550787) | about 4 years ago | (#33963966)

Unless the prices fall suddenly, the new Macbooks just found a new reason to be more expensive than ever: SS drives.

Re:SSD only (1)

LDAPMAN (930041) | about 4 years ago | (#33964158)

Actually they are Flash only...No hard drive at all.

I am not suppressing my laughter. (0, Troll)

copponex (13876) | about 4 years ago | (#33963970)

They just released the hybrid device (MacBook Air) that will eventually replace all consumer devices with built-in DRM. Steve will have no incentive to allow you to buy any software outside of the App Store, since he gets a 30% cut.

No, seriously guys. You already consented. He's going to stick it all the way in.

Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (5, Insightful)

jjohnson (62583) | about 4 years ago | (#33964024)

And for a huge number of consumers, they'll be quite happy with the locked down device with Apple as gatekeeper. They'll have everything they need or want, will pay a bit extra for that, and won't even notice the /. crowd wailing and gnashing its collective teeth over Jobs' "war on openness".

When will /. readers acknowledge that they're not the entire fucking market for computing devices?

Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (1, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 4 years ago | (#33964188)

When will /. readers acknowledge that they're not the entire fucking market for computing devices?

Because we're fucking pissed that corporations keep trying to pull this shit on people.

They don't need lock down for ANYTHING except to forcibly herd people through their stores. They don't need it for security, they don't need it for clean integration. It's purely for the purposes of monetization.

If there were even the inkling that the groups pushing this shit (in any company) were going to offer an easy means of disabling this for power users, I don't think there would be complaints. But they don't. And they want to push it far and wide, and make getting out from under it a pain in the ass.

Personally, I don't think there should be any threshold I should have to cross to use my property to the fullest. Even if no one else uses it, even if they aren't aware of it. The opportunity should be there no matter what.

So go ahead and defend Apple's behavior, until Intel, Microsoft, and the like go and try to push this shit industry wide and then since you are a tiny part of the market they ignore you completely.

Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | about 4 years ago | (#33964192)

+1 insightful. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. You may be surprised however at the number of people who will.

Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (4, Insightful)

RazorSharp (1418697) | about 4 years ago | (#33964164)

They just released the hybrid device (MacBook Air) that will eventually replace all consumer devices with built-in DRM. Steve will have no incentive to allow you to buy any software outside of the App Store, since he gets a 30% cut.

No, seriously guys. You already consented. He's going to stick it all the way in.

I think people like you _want_ Apple to become some evil company because you dislike something else about the company or its users.

No, seriously guy. No one consented to anything. It's a product announcement and evil DRM wasn't part of it.

Re:I am not suppressing my laughter. (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | about 4 years ago | (#33964312)

They just released the hybrid device (MacBook Air)

What's "hybrid" about it? (No, you can't cite any Lion features as evidence that it's a "hybrid" device; as El Jobso said, you can buy it now, and Lion isn't available now, so it'll ship with Snow Leopard.)

more boring stuff (0, Troll)

t2t10 (1909766) | about 4 years ago | (#33963972)

The app store is a rip-off of Linux package systems and other people's online stores, except of course that it will be more restrictive. The new window management is what you have been able to get standard on Linux for many years. And the new MacBook Air is basically a netbook; since OS X and its apps are so heavy-weight, it ended up having to be overpowered and overpriced. And, of course, Jobs talked about it as if they invented it all.

Re:more boring stuff (1)

LDAPMAN (930041) | about 4 years ago | (#33964226)

You can call the new Macbook Air many thing but boring is not one of them. You'd have to be very thick or very biased not to see the difference between the Air and a netbook. Lets start with an aluminum unibody, hi res screen, full size keyboard and multitouch trackpad. Then there is the 7 hours of real world battery life. This thing is a work of art.

Intersting tack for the software market (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 4 years ago | (#33963986)

Here's a question: if you put an app exclusively in the app store, will it be uninstallable via other methods (i.e. - can you hack the package to manually/locally install)? Would this / could this be a piracy reduction vector for software developers on the mac, and is the 30% fee (brilliant, btw, Jobs) enough enticement for small to mid-sized developers to go exclusively with app-store sales? Is there even a pirate market for apple application?

It looks more like a way for Apple to get a bigger piece of the pie. That's a well played move, in an evil corporate genius kind of way.

Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (5, Interesting)

TellarHK (159748) | about 4 years ago | (#33963992)

I know that every other comment under the sun here is going to focus on the app store and DRM concerns, but I'm also somewhat concerned about the fact that CPU speeds on these new Macbook Airs seem to be... rather pathetic. C2D 1.4 and 1.86 Ghz processors? Is Xcode really that much better at leveraging the GPU, to where they can release something like this when announcing Lion and its new features that sound like they're going to brutalize processing power. With CPU speeds like these, it almost seems like they just didn't want to say the word 'Atom'.

Re:Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (3, Insightful)

jjohnson (62583) | about 4 years ago | (#33964120)

The existing Airs are sluggish compared to the rest of the Macbook line, and this model refresh isn't going after that because the people who buy Airs don't run CPU intensive apps like Xcode. The typical use case for the air is 1) college students with rich parents in humanities programs, 2) executives who travel a lot, and 3) gadget mavens who want to show off. In other words, browser, email, and maybe iLife. Coders typically jump straight to the 15" Pro models just for the bigger screen.

It's always been a prestige model and, secondarily, a testbed for miniaturization of components. I'm kind of impressed at the all-Flash storage, actually.

Re:Anyone else noticing the CPU situation? (1)

vectravl400 (953989) | about 4 years ago | (#33964262)

Probably Low Voltage cpus. That's what you usually find in the compact notebooks. They're always lower for a reduction in heat or power consumption.

makes you think if apple will intel video in the n (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | about 4 years ago | (#33964288)

makes you think if apple will intel video in the next mini and other low end system when core2 is gone.

apple likes to drop speeds and more to fit in the supper thin case and that why you have a $700+ desktop with a old laptop core2 cpu and on board video.

A little disappointed (1)

mosb1000 (710161) | about 4 years ago | (#33964080)

I'm a little disappointed that they're saying that they're sticking with track-pad and mouse input verses touch-screen because "touch screen doesn't work well in front of the user".

It's true that you wouldn't want to reach out and touch your monitor in order to navigate, but I often find myself printing things out so I can work with them directly. My brother has an app on his iPad that he can use like a remote control for his mac mini (which he has plugged into his TV) it basically turns his iPad into a track-pad for his TV. I can imagine a way to use your display as just that (a window to look at information) while using an iPad like device to do work or select information for viewing on the display and navigate on the display if there's 3D or video content. I'd really like to see someone bring multitouch (on a touch-screen) to the desktop, I think it would be a lot easier to work with.

Not a fan, but Jobs is right (1)

boristdog (133725) | about 4 years ago | (#33964096)

I am no Mac fan and I will never use this, but Steve Jobs has decided that there are enough users that want or don't care if they are locked down and tied to an ecosystem, as long as that ecosystem is easy enough for them to use.

So Apple will make a heck of a lot of money on this sort of thing from the type of people who want it.

For the rest of us, it gives us a great excuse to say "I know nothing about Apple products" when grandma or the nieces/nephews need help with their iProducts.

Re:Not a fan, but Jobs is right (4, Insightful)

nblender (741424) | about 4 years ago | (#33964230)

You know it's funny. My father and father in-law were computer inexperienced windows users and were asking for my help a lot. I don't know how to use Windows so I could honestly reply "I don't know ... I only know Unix and OSX..."

So both of them got Macs (at different times) and now I don't get any questions... Because shit just works for them...

Ubuntu Netbook on that Air looks promising... (1)

DdJ (10790) | about 4 years ago | (#33964110)

That new MacBook Air... imagine that with the Netbook edition of Ubuntu on it. Mmmmm.

Wow Apple, way to innovate. (0, Troll)

SpeZek (970136) | about 4 years ago | (#33964208)

Full screen "apps"? An "App Store" (aka repository)? Alt Tabbing!? Webcam chat? Icons you can click to open "apps"!!!!?

And people said that Windows 7 was a meaningless redress of Vista...

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